BMW owners? Car Smarties?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

My commute to work is quite a bit longer now, so I've been looking at getting a older car to putt putt back and forth to work in and I stumbled upon a 2003 BMW 330i with about 95,000 miles on it..1 owner, old guy...car still looks brand new inside..8500 bucks is what he told me he would sell it to me for...

Anybody have some knowledge on what typical mileage life of a BMW engine is...or any other information..

All I know is that the 2008 ford f150 badlander is costing me too much in gas to drive back and forth

[olevetonahill]

If its been maintained well it should last ya a long time.

I have a 93 Chevy P/U that has over 250K on it .

In the Bad old days before Unleaded gas an engine got 100K on it and it was shot .
Todays engines can and will run into the 2 and 300 K range with little wear.

[C&CDean]

Dude, whatever you do do NOT buy a BMW. I used to work on them. They're POS. Trust me on this one. And when it does need parts, you're gonna need a bank loan to pay for them. Seriously, do the anti-vampire sign and walk away from that evil thing.

For $8,500 you can pick up something like a Ford Escort, or a Toyota Corolla or Nissan or Honda. Those Escorts have been getting very high ratings the past few years, and you'll get ~35 mpg.

[GottaHavePride]

Yeah, if you want fuel efficient car to go back and forth to work with, I wouldn't go for a BMW. Especially not one 6 years old already.

[C&CDean]

And by "Ford Escort" I actually mean "Ford Focus."

[BudSooner]

And by "Ford Escort" I actually mean "Ford Focus."
Gotta go with Dean on this one, the engines are pretty solid and yeah the MPG is as good if not better than some of the news cars put today.

[GottaHavePride]

And by "Ford Escort" I actually mean "Ford Focus."


Man, the guys on Top Gear had some hilarious fun when they got their hands on a Focus R. :D

[yermom]

i wouldn't buy a Focus with someone else's money

that Focus RS, other than being FWD looks pretty awesome though

[delhalew]

The Focus is trash. While the BMW may not be the wisest choice, the 85' 325e I had back around 2000 was very dependable and fun. It had a ****load of miles when I bought it. It had been poorly maintained so I took it to a guy and dropped less than five hundred replacing hoses and tuning the engine so it would quit dying. After that it was a monster until I totaled it 3 years later. It just ran so good I couldn't help getting stupid in it. I actually evaded the popo in that car, and that was in Atlanta. They'll get a chopper on your butt.

[Zbird]

My commute to work is quite a bit longer now, so I've been looking at getting a older car to putt putt back and forth to work in and I stumbled upon a 2003 BMW 330i with about 95,000 miles on it..1 owner, old guy...car still looks brand new inside..8500 bucks is what he told me he would sell it to me for...

Anybody have some knowledge on what typical mileage life of a BMW engine is...or any other information..

All I know is that the 2008 ford f150 badlander is costing me too much in gas to drive back and forth

The W doesn't mean anything. Acronym for the rest of the name tells it all. Great car when it's running OK. Expensive and hard to get parts and difficulty with the same part # not being the same specs.

Just sayin'

[Zbird]

i wouldn't buy a Focus with someone else's money

that Focus RS, other than being FWD looks pretty awesome though

What yermom said. Stick with Honda. My daughter bought a used Accord with 45,000 miles on it. Drove it 5 years and I got it from her with about 130,000.
It's my daily driver, and all it's ever needed is oil & filter changes every 3000 Timing belts every 90,000 and Tires. Just turned 190,00, runs like its new and it'll outlast any new ford focus starting now.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

I had a 2002 330i and you will pay just as much in gas as you do with your F150 because you have to put super unleaded in it. And dean is right, it seemed every corner I turned something went wrong and parts are VERY expensive. However, they are fun to drive.

[GKeeper316]

you can pick up a nissan maxima for less.

nissan engines are built with timing chains instead of belts, so you should never have to dump 600-800 into it for a new timing belt.

and nissans are the best engineered cars coming out of japan, except for the subaru, which is arguably the best engineered cars on the planet, not counting exotics.

[SoonerInKCMO]

BMWs are definitely something you only want to get new - under warranty and with maintenance included. For the $8500 you'd spend on the BMW you could get any number of compact or midsize cars that get better mpg, are newer, have fewer miles on 'em and are more reliable. If you're used to a larger vehicle, maybe the Impala would be more your style than a Civic or Corolla... You could get a 2004 or 2005 for $7-8k - and the 3.8l engines in them, while they'll never be considered sophisticated, run forever and get decent mpg.

[SoonerInKCMO]

you can pick up a nissan maxima for less.

nissan engines are built with timing chains instead of belts, so you should never have to dump 600-800 into it for a new timing belt.

and nissans are the best engineered cars coming out of japan, except for the subaru, which is arguably the best engineered cars on the planet, not counting exotics.

IIRC, the 3.5l used in Maximas, Altimas, G35s and the 350Z won a few 'engine of the year' prizes back in the mid-aughts.

[Turd_Ferguson]

You could get one of these for tree fitty...plus, you could sell ice cream to help with gas...

Big Worm:D

http://www.supertouchart.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ricecream.jpg

[SoonerInKCMO]

Screw the ice cream truck - get a sexxx van.

http://robksawyer.com/images/motors_and_soles/motors/van_airbrush_wizard.jpg

I can almost hear Foghat by just looking at that picture.

[SCOUT]

I had a 2002 330i and then a 2006 330i. I never had a single problem with either of them. I recognize that the parts and maintenance are really expensive but I guess I had really good luck.

As far as mileage goes, I would say that those two cars average just under 20 mpg. Not awful but not that great either.

I loved driving them though.

[BudSooner]

Screw the ice cream truck - get a sexxx van.

http://robksawyer.com/images/motors_and_soles/motors/van_airbrush_wizard.jpg

I can almost hear Foghat by just looking at that picture.
Damn, i'm liking that idea.:D

[Veritas]

BMWs are definitely something you only want to get new - under warranty and with maintenance included.
My personal experience has been otherwise; I buy 4-5 year old big motor 5-series between 45-50,000 miles and unload them when they hit 80K. I've never had to do anything but change oil (which is about $100, but every 15K miles) and straighten bent rims (BMW uses really soft alloy). Depreciation usually hits me for 11-14 cents a mile.


For the $8500 you'd spend on the BMW you could get any number of compact or midsize cars that get better mpg, are newer, have fewer miles on 'em and are more reliable. If you're used to a larger vehicle, maybe the Impala would be more your style than a Civic or Corolla... You could get a 2004 or 2005 for $7-8k - and the 3.8l engines in them, while they'll never be considered sophisticated, run forever and get decent mpg.
Agree wholeheartedly.

Stay away from high mile 6-cylinder BMWs.
Yes, yes, and yes. Do not buy a BMW if you are shooting for economy or efficiency,

[SoonerInKCMO]

My personal experience has been otherwise; I buy 4-5 year old big motor 5-series between 45-50,000 miles and unload them when they hit 80K. I've never had to do anything but change oil (which is about $100, but every 15K miles) and straighten bent rims (BMW uses really soft alloy). Depreciation usually hits me for 11-14 cents a mile.

Meanwhile, I've dropped a couple grand in maintenance (2 water pumps, tensioner pulley, belt, etc.) on my Corolla. I must be doing something wrong... maybe constantly bouncing off the rev limiter is bad. ;) Point being, I suppose, that one can rarely predict how well a specific car is going to do... we're just playing the odds. :(

[yermom]

you can pick up a nissan maxima for less.

nissan engines are built with timing chains instead of belts, so you should never have to dump 600-800 into it for a new timing belt.

and nissans are the best engineered cars coming out of japan, except for the subaru, which is arguably the best engineered cars on the planet, not counting exotics.

i like this guy :D

i used to talk up Toyotas. i wouldn't suggest one without a clutch pedal now.

Subarus are a good choice if you actually enjoy driving... not the greatest mileage though

[Turd_Ferguson]

OV's got saxet tags?:eek:

http://www.pulpfictionwallets.com/images/umawagon.jpg

[Oldnslo]

I've had BMW's for years. 95 M3, 01 540i (too big for me), 03 330i ZHP, and my beloved 88 M3.

The engine will be bulletproof. The electronics, less so. All of my 3-series cars have had at least 120k on the clock when I traded them.

You'll love the car.

[PrideTrombone]

IIRC, the 3.5l used in Maximas, Altimas, G35s and the 350Z won a few 'engine of the year' prizes back in the mid-aughts.

That 3.5 is a GREAT engine. GREAT.

[delhalew]

I've had BMW's for years. 95 M3, 01 540i (too big for me), 03 330i ZHP, and my beloved 88 M3.

The engine will be bulletproof. The electronics, less so. All of my 3-series cars have had at least 120k on the clock when I traded them.

You'll love the car.

THIS!! The engine belongs in the louvre. The electronics in my 325e were less than perfect. At least the windows never gave me trouble.

[yermom]

That 3.5 is a GREAT engine. GREAT.

it's a 3.7 now

and i think it's the same one in the GT-R :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzNE17f1PY

[bluedogok]

nissan engines are built with timing chains instead of belts, so you should never have to dump 600-800 into it for a new timing belt..
My BMW (03 Z4) has a timing chain, most of the newer ones do. I bought it last year with 45,000 miles, I put 20K on it in the past year and have had no issues with it. I fully acknowledged that it is a different animal from the Japanese appliance vehicles. We just bought one of those for my wife trading away her Ford Escape (04 with 108K miles) that was starting to nickle and dime us for a Toyota 4Runner.

Pretty much all parts are expensive now, the BMW parts that I checked into the cost of was no worse than Mazda parts for my old RX-7 and anything other than standard items will have to be shipped from somewhere, that is just the nature of the business anymore.

[GKeeper316]

My BMW (03 Z4) has a timing chain, most of the newer ones do. I bought it last year with 45,000 miles, I put 20K on it in the past year and have had no issues with it. I fully acknowledged that it is a different animal from the Japanese appliance vehicles. We just bought one of those for my wife trading away her Ford Escape (04 with 108K miles) that was starting to nickle and dime us for a Toyota 4Runner.

Pretty much all parts are expensive now, the BMW parts that I checked into the cost of was no worse than Mazda parts for my old RX-7 and anything other than standard items will have to be shipped from somewhere, that is just the nature of the business anymore.

what year RX-7?

[GottaHavePride]

it's a 3.7 now

and i think it's the same one in the GT-R :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzNE17f1PY


Man, that GT-R may be the biggest bang for your buck in the sports car department right now.

It's just a shame they're ugly as hell...

[yermom]

you bite your tongue!

[GottaHavePride]

Heh

[MR2-Sooner86]

Man, that GT-R may be the biggest bang for your buck in the sports car department right now.

It's just a shame they're ugly as hell...

If they would've stuck with the newer Skyline styles in the front like they did the rear and not make it a "exotic" looking 370Z that wouldn't be a problem. I also never got why they put a new engine in it. The RB26DETT was tried and tested to work so why not just tweak it a little? Then again it's emissions' levels were the reason it was never sold here :mad:

[Veritas]

Meanwhile, I've dropped a couple grand in maintenance (2 water pumps, tensioner pulley, belt, etc.) on my Corolla. I must be doing something wrong... maybe constantly bouncing off the rev limiter is bad. ;) Point being, I suppose, that one can rarely predict how well a specific car is going to do... we're just playing the odds. :(
I went through four motors in my '00 Celica GT-S. One was my fault (I blew a shift), the rest just couldn't consistently deliver in the powerband they were designed for. That 2ZZ motor with the six-speed was a grenade. Like the girls I dated during the time I owned it, it was cheaply built, unreliable, and expensive to maintain but fun as hell and seemed to beg to be treated badly.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I went through four motors in my '00 Celica GT-S. One was my fault (I blew a shift), the rest just couldn't consistently deliver in the powerband they were designed for. That 2ZZ motor with the six-speed was a grenade. Like the girls I dated during the time I owned it, it was cheaply built, unreliable, and expensive to maintain but fun as hell and seemed to beg to be treated badly.

Funny as my MR2 has the 1ZZ and the engine in it went bad. I got it back and it went out...again and is being rebuilt at this time. I agree, they were built to be treated badly but it's the only way to treat them if you want any performance out of it. Of course when the engine is buzzing along at 70 at 3,750 RPM it's no wonder they don't live too long.

[Oldnslo]

Roket 88 (did I mention that it's an original E30 M3?) is happiest over 4k. Shifting much below that makes for a much less engaging drive. Seems like it smooths out over 5k or so. The S14 engine has none of that counter-rotating balance shaft business, since it was for racing.

I'm going to go put another coat of wax on the car right now. :)

[PrideTrombone]

it's a 3.7 now

and i think it's the same one in the GT-R :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSzNE17f1PY

Yeah, but if he's looking used, he'll still be looking at the 3.5 in the models from the last decade or so.

[BudSooner]

Screw all that noise, save yer pennies and get an old Toyota truck, tough as hell and with the smaller engine ya will get better mileage.
That and if ya get pissed someday ya can take it out and thrash the **** out of it.
I'm talking about a 97-02 truck with a 4cylinder, ya could nuke one of them and it would still be there afterwards. That was one reason Penske bought a bunch of them and put the big moving box on them, tough as nails.
But stay away from an automatic, get the stick shift.

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but I get better gas mileage with the stick shift..always have.

[lexsooner]

My personal experience has been otherwise; I buy 4-5 year old big motor 5-series between 45-50,000 miles and unload them when they hit 80K. I've never had to do anything but change oil (which is about $100, but every 15K miles) and straighten bent rims (BMW uses really soft alloy). Depreciation usually hits me for 11-14 cents a mile.


Agree wholeheartedly.

Stay away from high mile 6-cylinder BMWs.
Yes, yes, and yes. Do not buy a BMW if you are shooting for economy or efficiency,

I used to have a 2003 325xi, and now I own a low mileage 2006 530xi, and I concur with Veritas and the other owners of Bimmers. They are great to look cool in, and fun to drive, although the AWD x versions don't perform as well as the regular back wheel drive BMWs. However they are not meant to be highly reliable, long-lasting cars. The people I know who have them say as you approach 100,000 miles, all sorts of problems start occuring. My plan is to always drive them with low miles on them and then sell and buy a used one with very low mileage. It's cool to own one as long as you know what you are getting. If you want reliability and high miles, get a Camry. I used to have a 1997 Camry and it was very reliable, and I sold it to a co-worker, and she told me recently she passed 200,000 miles on the car with the same engine and few problems at all.

[GottaHavePride]

Yeah, BMWs (and most luxury cars) work great if you're the kind of person who plans to drive them for two or three years and then trade it in on something newer.

[Boomer.....]

I have heard good things about BMWs. Premium gas will only cost you around $0.20 cents more per gallon and only around $4 extra per tank. You will still be saving money compared to the F-150.

[lexsooner]

I have heard good things about BMWs. Premium gas will only cost you around $0.20 cents more per gallon and only around $4 extra per tank. You will still be saving money compared to the F-150.

BMW and pickup truck drivers - two groups of drivers from different backgrounds who drive too fast and tailgate other drivers.

[bluedogok]

what year RX-7?
It was a 1990 GXL. I bought it in 1999 with 93,000 miles for $3,675, traded it away with 169,000 miles in 2003 for a Ford F-150. It was a great car, just needed parts that a 170,000 mile car needs and just the parts alone was more than the car was worth, since I was moving to Texas I needed to put catalytic converters on it and the rest of the exhaust to meet emissions. I still have a new clutch for it in the garage somewhere that I hadn't got around to installing.

[yermom]

ah, 2nd gen :D

i spent way too much time watching my buddy's 3rd gen get worked on

that thing was sick fast though

[bluedogok]

One thing that I found common with all of the 12A and 13B rotaries whether on the FB or FC models was they did fine stock, once you started trying to pump a bunch of more power out them they became unreliable. Mine was a bone stock 13B and the only thing that I ever did to the motor was change oil and spark plugs/wires, that seemed to be the things to do to make them reliable. A friend had an 85 GSL (FB/12A) that had over 200K on it when he sold it, the motor had never been apart, no apex seals or anything and it still ran well...it was bone stock also. Everyone that I know that had trouble out of those had tried to hop them up. The third gen FD cars being a twin turbo probably had some more issues from the factory because of the forced induction, I would still like one though but only as a "fun car". I still think the FD is one of the best looking cars made, I also liked the MX-6 of the era and always wanted to build a sleeper MX-6 with the FD twin turbo drivetrain.

I also considered the RX-8 (and many others) before buying my Z4 last year. One thing is I also have a motorcycle (Triumph) to go along with the wife's car, so I am not too worried about transportation.

[SoonerJack]

I bought a 99 323i with just over 100k on it. It's a five speed manual so the mileage is excellent. I've put about 30k on it and I've been pretty religious about oil changes and following the recommended service intervals, etc. The guy I bought it from took really good care of it. Electronics haven't caused a single problem.

I've found a good way to check out a lot of problems that various cars have is to find the forum (like soonerfans) for the model on the web. Let us know what you wind up with.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

thanks for all the info people...

[yermom]

One thing that I found common with all of the 12A and 13B rotaries whether on the FB or FC models was they did fine stock, once you started trying to pump a bunch of more power out them they became unreliable. Mine was a bone stock 13B and the only thing that I ever did to the motor was change oil and spark plugs/wires, that seemed to be the things to do to make them reliable. A friend had an 85 GSL (FB/12A) that had over 200K on it when he sold it, the motor had never been apart, no apex seals or anything and it still ran well...it was bone stock also. Everyone that I know that had trouble out of those had tried to hop them up. The third gen FD cars being a twin turbo probably had some more issues from the factory because of the forced induction, I would still like one though but only as a "fun car". I still think the FD is one of the best looking cars made, I also liked the MX-6 of the era and always wanted to build a sleeper MX-6 with the FD twin turbo drivetrain.

I also considered the RX-8 (and many others) before buying my Z4 last year. One thing is I also have a motorcycle (Triumph) to go along with the wife's car, so I am not too worried about transportation.

this FD had a single turbo swapped for the twins. blew one motor when he pulled the last cat off the thing and the wastegate couldn't handle the extra boost fast enough

i think the next one was after adding the NO :D

[C&CDean]

I threw the Ford Focus out there because it has been highly rated by Consumer Reports and other car raters. You Ford Focus haters are a misguided lot. No, they're not flashy sports cars or pimpmobiles. Yes, they are decent, reliable, economic, and sensible. Do some research. I suggested this car because you can pick up a used one damned cheap, and it'll keep you going down the road for a long time.

So, if you're wanting to look like your average geek going through his mid-life crisis buy a BMW. Get you some shiny polyester shirts and open them to the navel, and don't forget about some bling to wear over your fake-baked chest. If you've got a backup for when it's down, and you're financially in a position to be able to afford the repairs, and don't mind ****ty fuel mileage then by all means, knock yourself out.

If you want decent, reliable and economical transportation buy a Focus. Or a Nissan. Or a Honda. Or a Toyota. Or a Hyundai (never though I'd be saying that). Stay away from anything that comes from the other side of the Atlantic.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I think I've decided on this one..I hear the fuel economy is spectacular

http://www.harvestsalvage.ca/8850_John_Deere_Tractor.JPG

[yermom]

I threw the Ford Focus out there because it has been highly rated by Consumer Reports and other car raters. You Ford Focus haters are a misguided lot. No, they're not flashy sports cars or pimpmobiles. Yes, they are decent, reliable, economic, and sensible. Do some research. I suggested this car because you can pick up a used one damned cheap, and it'll keep you going down the road for a long time.

So, if you're wanting to look like your average geek going through his mid-life crisis buy a BMW. Get you some shiny polyester shirts and open them to the navel, and don't forget about some bling to wear over your fake-baked chest. If you've got a backup for when it's down, and you're financially in a position to be able to afford the repairs, and don't mind ****ty fuel mileage then by all means, knock yourself out.

If you want decent, reliable and economical transportation buy a Focus. Or a Nissan. Or a Honda. Or a Toyota. Or a Hyundai (never though I'd be saying that). Stay away from anything that comes from the other side of the Atlantic.

i'm just kind of a Ford hater, in general. i've never seen the issues in Hondas, Toyotas or Nissans that i have seen in the Escorts, Foci, and Tauruses that me and my acquaintances have had. (Mazdas too. it's not surprising they overlap some)

[Veritas]

I threw the Ford Focus out there because it has been highly rated by Consumer Reports and other car raters. You Ford Focus haters are a misguided lot. No, they're not flashy sports cars or pimpmobiles. Yes, they are decent, reliable, economic, and sensible. Do some research. I suggested this car because you can pick up a used one damned cheap, and it'll keep you going down the road for a long time.

So, if you're wanting to look like your average geek going through his mid-life crisis buy a BMW. Get you some shiny polyester shirts and open them to the navel, and don't forget about some bling to wear over your fake-baked chest. If you've got a backup for when it's down, and you're financially in a position to be able to afford the repairs, and don't mind ****ty fuel mileage then by all means, knock yourself out.

If you want decent, reliable and economical transportation buy a Focus. Or a Nissan. Or a Honda. Or a Toyota. Or a Hyundai (never though I'd be saying that). Stay away from anything that comes from the other side of the Atlantic.
Agreed on the Ford Focus. They're nice little cars, although their motors sound like **** and they make a ton of noise over 40mph (I'm car shopping for my mom right now so I've been driving lots of cars).

I don't know what's up with the BMW hate, Dean. Yeah, lots of douch3bags buy them because they want to look cool. This douch3bag buys them because they are just freaking wonderful to own and drive. The steering, the feedback from the road, crisp brakes, linear acceleration, snap shifts from the SMG gearbox...just makes me smile. I get 24MPG over the road and I can get to 60MPH in just a hair over 5 seconds and the rollon in 6th gear at cruising speed is greatness...if I'm not careful I'm over 100 in a couple of seconds. I can also carry on a conversation at 85 in a normal tone of voice, carry four comfortably, and haul a crapton of luggage. The dealerships themselves are amazing to work with; all the ones I've visited have great wifi, are willing to get you food/drink on their dime while you're waiting, and always offer loaner vehicles that are nice to drive (usually a 128i or 328i).

If all you (the royal you) care about is owning an appliance that will transport you from point A to point B, then yeah, any late model Jap or American sedan will do you fine. But if you want to have a hell of a fun time getting there while being treated extremely well if anything goes wrong along the way, buy a BMW.

[SoonerBK]

My wife drives a 2004 325i right now. It is a nice car...drives nice...smooth...whatever. I'm not a foreign car guy, but my hot wife liked it. I do understand that its cool to get to own a car that you like. So we bought it. Here's the rub...We live 100 miles away from anyone that I feel comfortable working on it. Dean is right when he says they are more expensive to work on. Seems like parts are on average about 30%-40% more than on american cars.

I am of the opinion now that if it was'nt built in the USA, you probably dont need it. If you are out of warranty, Jackie Cooper will not be gentle. There is a shop on the North Side of Norman. Just south of Indian Hill Rd. on the east side of I-35. It's called Bavaria Autohouse. A guy named Dave owns it He is awesome. He went to OU in the late 60's early 70's. He was one of those "long hairs" everyone was afraid of back then.

Actually getting to talk to Dave when the car goes in is my favorite thing about owning this car. Sadly I know quite a bit about him (b/c the car has been in a few times). He was telling me about his time at OU (In my best Tommy Chong Impression) He says "We smoked a lot of weed Maan." Awesome!

Rest assured her next ride will be a large Inefficiant American SUV. I hope you can glean something out of this rambling post.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i'm just kind of a Ford hater, in general. i've never seen the issues in Hondas, Toyotas or Nissans that i have seen in the Escorts, Foci, and Tauruses that me and my acquaintances have had. (Mazdas too. it's not surprising they overlap some)

you are generalizing instead of looking at specific makes/models. every manufacturer has issues with certain make/model combos as well as having general issues on a specific part (like leaky sunroof, etc)

things i agree with -> timing chain over belt. the new belts are designed for 100k, but the entire design is idiotic. if either the belt breaks or the t-bar tensioner goes out, the motor is going to break some valves and/or pistons.

using consumer reports/jd power to determine the reliability of the make/model. it will give you the odds of getting a good car vs a lemon. the biggest issue i normally see is that the only time people try to sell good make/models is when they have the small % of lemons.

call the parts department and ask for some random parts and see how much they are -> oxygen sensors, water pump, ac pump, etc. also ask if the oil filter/air filter are dealer only items.

[C&CDean]

Agreed on the Ford Focus. They're nice little cars, although their motors sound like **** and they make a ton of noise over 40mph (I'm car shopping for my mom right now so I've been driving lots of cars).

I don't know what's up with the BMW hate, Dean. Yeah, lots of douch3bags buy them because they want to look cool. This douch3bag buys them because they are just freaking wonderful to own and drive. The steering, the feedback from the road, crisp brakes, linear acceleration, snap shifts from the SMG gearbox...just makes me smile. I get 24MPG over the road and I can get to 60MPH in just a hair over 5 seconds and the rollon in 6th gear at cruising speed is greatness...if I'm not careful I'm over 100 in a couple of seconds. I can also carry on a conversation at 85 in a normal tone of voice, carry four comfortably, and haul a crapton of luggage. The dealerships themselves are amazing to work with; all the ones I've visited have great wifi, are willing to get you food/drink on their dime while you're waiting, and always offer loaner vehicles that are nice to drive (usually a 128i or 328i).

If all you (the royal you) care about is owning an appliance that will transport you from point A to point B, then yeah, any late model Jap or American sedan will do you fine. But if you want to have a hell of a fun time getting there while being treated extremely well if anything goes wrong along the way, buy a BMW.

Why the BMW hate? I guess you missed where I used to be an automotive mechanic. I worked on European crap (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Saab, Fiat, Triumph) and I know how these cars are.

They're awesome when they run. Like humping a movie star. When they go down, and I don't give a **** what you BMW lovers say, they DO go down, they go down hard. And even a crappy little oil change will run you $100+ (more than it costs for my diesel trucks and they take 12 quarts of oil). Brake job? Well over a grand. Electrical issues (and trust me, they have them)? Maybe thousands.

If you need to pimp and drive in style, get a Lexus or an Infiniti or an Acura. Fine cars that won't let you down and usually cheaper than a BMW to purchase and most certainly cheaper to own and drive.

[Dio]

Ford Focus? Why do you hate people who want to drive over 50 in the passing lane? ;)

[Veritas]

Why the BMW hate? I guess you missed where I used to be an automotive mechanic. I worked on European crap (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Saab, Fiat, Triumph) and I know how these cars are.
Basing your perspective of what it's like to own and drive a car based on what it's like to work on is like asking a flight crew chief what it's like to fly and fight in an F-22.

[C&CDean]

Basing your perspective of what it's like to own and drive a car based on what it's like to work on is like asking a flight crew chief what it's like to fly and fight in an F-22.

Dude, your BMW ain't anything close to an F-22. If you were talking Ferraris or Lambourghinis then it'd be a closer analogy.

I guess I'm just blessed with more common sense than the average BMW owner. I'll give you a better analogy:

Owning a BMW is like marrying the homecoming queen. Beautiful, everybody likes to look at her, nice arm candy, and maybe even good in the sack. At first, it's great. Then after a while you learn she can't cook. She can't clean. One week out of every month she's impossible to live with from major PMS. She runs home to her mother every month or so because you're demanding or selfish. If you're unfortunate enough to stay married, she balloons up to about 250 on the hoof and spends her days watching soaps and eating chocolate bon bons.

But hey, she looked good...

[GottaHavePride]

Ford Focus? Why do you hate people who want to drive over 50 in the passing lane? ;)



Well, that or you get the Focus RS, stomp on the gas, and wind up in a ditch from the torque. ;)

[SoonerJack]

got my oil (synthetic) changed in my 323 last week for $46

did my own rear brakes last summer for just under 200 with real live bmw pads and rotors. I'll do the fronts next time.

and I don't wear polyester shirts or gold chains.

[bluedogok]

If you pay others to do that kind of work then yeah they can be expensive, but we traded away my wifes Ford Escape last week because it was already starting to become a maintenance case when it hit about 95,000 miles. Parts and service rates aren't all that much different between domestics and foreign cars anymore and half a "domestic" car is foreign anymore. My F-150 had a bunch of Bosch parts stamped MADE IN GERMANY on them. My Z4 is made in Spartanburg, South Carolina, what is "domestic" and "import" is a blurred line anymore. The routine service on my wife's 4Runner is pretty much the same cost as what my BMW would be after looking at the schedules, find a good independent shop and it can save you some money, the dealer is just expensive.

I know guys who worked in a Honda or Toyota shops who won't drive the brands they work on, basing a decision off the fact that you see broken and screwed up cars is bound to taint your view of them. The H-D mechs that I have known don't ride Harley's either.

I do my own work as much as I can, oil changes and brakes are the only things that I have done in the 20,000 miles that I have put on it in the past year. My Triumph has only been in the shop once for a fuel fitting recall in the 6 years and 25,000 miles that I put on it. This winter I plan on finding a basket case E36 to build into a Spec E36/IT race car, seems like a good off season project.

[GKeeper316]

Why the BMW hate? I guess you missed where I used to be an automotive mechanic. I worked on European crap (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Saab, Fiat, Triumph) and I know how these cars are.

They're awesome when they run. Like humping a movie star. When they go down, and I don't give a **** what you BMW lovers say, they DO go down, they go down hard. And even a crappy little oil change will run you $100+ (more than it costs for my diesel trucks and they take 12 quarts of oil). Brake job? Well over a grand. Electrical issues (and trust me, they have them)? Maybe thousands.

If you need to pimp and drive in style, get a Lexus or an Infiniti or an Acura. Fine cars that won't let you down and usually cheaper than a BMW to purchase and most certainly cheaper to own and drive.

cant believe this ****, but im in total agreement with dean, here.

my dad bought an 88 528e brand new. it was a great car for 8 years. and when i say it was a great car i mean it was the most responsive, fun to drive car id ever driven...

then the problems started... and my dad, bless his heart, form emotional attachments to his vehicles and to this day refuses to get rid of that stinkin money pit of a german export.

when they start to go bad, and they will, the expense is almost astronomical.

seriously just find a nice used nissan. i used to sell them and never once did i feel like i was selling someone a lemon. they are just that great.

[GKeeper316]

actually let me change my opinion on what you should buy, step...

a few months ago i picked up a 97 jeep wrangler just to have a fun little 4x4 for when the weather gets crappy...

its awesome. even with just the little 4 banger, i get decent power and the mileage aint too bad. plus you can throw the top down in the summer and laugh at all the ice and snow we get in these insane oklahoma winters.

at 140k miles, it still feels like a brand new engine... no oil leaks or engine knocks... nothing. i couldnt be happier with it.

[yermom]

i don't know how you can say Jeep without "money pit" in the same sentence

i'd love to have one, but i'd never have one as a daily driver

[GKeeper316]

i don't know how you can say Jeep without "money pit" in the same sentence

i'd love to have one, but i'd never have one as a daily driver

jeeps are cheap and easy to work on...

[Oldnslo]

I guess I'm just blessed with more common sense than the average BMW owner. I'll give you a better analogy:

Owning a BMW is like marrying the homecoming queen. Beautiful, everybody likes to look at her, nice arm candy, and maybe even good in the sack. At first, it's great. Then after a while you learn she can't cook. She can't clean. One week out of every month she's impossible to live with from major PMS. She runs home to her mother every month or so because you're demanding or selfish. If you're unfortunate enough to stay married, she balloons up to about 250 on the hoof and spends her days watching soaps and eating chocolate bon bons.

But hey, she looked good...

Curiously enough, not only have I owned a number of BMW's, I also married the homecoming queen.

Dean, she's awesome. Best thing that ever happened to me. Easily the best decision I ever made was asking her to marry me. And, not that it matters, but 20 years later, she still weighs the same. A bit less, actually.

So maybe I just got really lucky with my homecoming queen. But I also must have gotten lucky with my BMW's. Or maybe I don't care that they cost some additional % to keep up because of how much I enjoy to drive them instead of some appliance-like car.

Then, there's this:
my dad bought an 88 528e brand new. it was a great car for 8 years. and when i say it was a great car i mean it was the most responsive, fun to drive car id ever driven...

then the problems started... and my dad, bless his heart, form emotional attachments to his vehicles and to this day refuses to get rid of that stinkin money pit of a german export.

You're kidding, right? He got 8 years of problem free service, loves the car, and now you wish he'd trade the car he loves?

Why isn't 8 years without a hiccup good enough? What car isn't going to have problems down the road.

There isn't much that puts a smile on my face like my 88 M3. Maybe just my homecoming queen. :)

[sooneron]

My 04 325xi is for sale. < 58K mi and in great condition. New brakes/rotors pads. I have never had an issue with it.

[sooneron]

And when the **** did :dean: work on BMWs? Things change, some car makes get better and more reliable and some get worse. BMW got better.

[sooneron]

Then, there's this:

You're kidding, right? He got 8 years of problem free service, loves the car, and now you wish he'd trade the car he loves?

Why isn't 8 years without a hiccup good enough? What car isn't going to have problems down the road.

There isn't much that puts a smile on my face like my 88 M3. Maybe just my homecoming queen. :)

No ****, that is laughable. EIGHT YEARS of no problems? :rolleyes:

[C&CDean]

You know what cracks me up? BMW owners defending their POS rides.

"Hell Clem, it never breaks down and even makes fuel instead of burning it."

Look at Consumer's Report. See how they rate European cars. Everyone loves to drive them because they're fun. However, in all of the reliability categories they blow. It's fact. I don't care how many hair-implanted, tooth-capped, gold-chain wearing wannabe pimps defend them.

Now beyond all that, the average BMW driver I know is pretentious, arrogant, rude and condescending as hell. Worse than the Mercedes guys even. Why is that? Is that piece just an extension of you guys, or is it the other way around?

No, I'm not saying ALL BMW drivers are this way, but many. And saying "bimmer" is gayer than tongueing your golf buddy's bunghole.

[sooneron]

It's 5:18PM, still no problems with the bmw in my driveway. And leave yours and Johnny Mack's sex life out of this thread. Plzkthnx. :D

[Oldnslo]

No ****, that is laughable. EIGHT YEARS of no problems? :rolleyes:

Okay. I'll bite. How long do you expect a car to last? Do you think it's a once-in-a-lifetime purchase? What other mechanical items do you use every day that are subjected to what you throw at a car that you expect to last 8 years or more? Refrigerators? Water heaters? They just sit there in the kitchen and probably don't last 8 years. What cars have you had that have lasted more than 8 years? Why did you get rid of them? Did you love the car or was it just a means of transportation?

Average use over 8 years should put the car somewhere between 96k and 120k miles. Around here, though, 8 years might be over 150k miles. Stuff happens to cars on the road.

Meanwhile, the other point was that your Dad LOVES THE CAR! He doesn't have a problem maintaining it, YOU have a problem with him maintaining it. Are the maintenance costs more than a new car payment?

This is exactly what I said to the OP: "you'll love the car".

Just like your Dad loves his.

[GottaHavePride]

Now beyond all that, the average BMW driver I know is pretentious, arrogant, rude and condescending as hell. Worse than the Mercedes guys even. Why is that? Is that piece just an extension of you guys, or is it the other way around?


Heh. I remember watching the Top Gear where they test the new M5 and the guy says, "wait, I need to put on my BMW owner's uniform!" So he goes and puts on khakis, a white polo shirt, sunglasses, and a bluetooth headset.

[Veritas]

Now beyond all that, the average BMW driver I know is pretentious, arrogant, rude and condescending as hell. Worse than the Mercedes guys even. Why is that? Is that piece just an extension of you guys, or is it the other way around?
You think BMW guys are bad, try PorschUH guys. They are the effing WORST. And I swear they're all closet cases.

[SoonerInKCMO]

All this yappin' and not a one of you humpers have recommended the Honda Civic GX -

http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/civic_gx.jpg

Honda efficiency and reliability along with burning clean, affordable, abundant and American natural gas.

This message brought to you by CNG Now. :)

[MR2-Sooner86]

Well I was going to come in here and defend BMW as their reliability has always been in the top five even though Lexus beat them out all the time. However, I did a little searching and found this.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/Reliability.jpg

Guess BMW is the last of the German makers to go. Been known for a while VW and Benz couldn't make a car worth a ****.

[yermom]

jeeps are cheap and easy to work on...

judging by the above graph, that's a good thing ;)

[sooneron]

Okay. I'll bite. How long do you expect a car to last? Do you think it's a once-in-a-lifetime purchase? What other mechanical items do you use every day that are subjected to what you throw at a car that you expect to last 8 years or more? Refrigerators? Water heaters? They just sit there in the kitchen and probably don't last 8 years. What cars have you had that have lasted more than 8 years? Why did you get rid of them? Did you love the car or was it just a means of transportation?

Average use over 8 years should put the car somewhere between 96k and 120k miles. Around here, though, 8 years might be over 150k miles. Stuff happens to cars on the road.

Meanwhile, the other point was that your Dad LOVES THE CAR! He doesn't have a problem maintaining it, YOU have a problem with him maintaining it. Are the maintenance costs more than a new car payment?

This is exactly what I said to the OP: "you'll love the car".

Just like your Dad loves his.
Bud, you're talking to the wrong person. I'm defending the make. 8 years is longer than I want to own one automobile.

[GKeeper316]

my point was that after about 8 years beemers start to suck.

hes looking to buy a 7-8 year old car. beemer isnt the choice.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

ahh...thanks for the list there...

I miss the Acura MDX...I should probably just go for another one of those..I know my family walked away from a big time car accident because of it, even though the car went to the grave yard...

[Oldnslo]

You think BMW guys are bad, try PorschUH guys. They are the effing WORST. And I swear they're all closet cases.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/2871984762_ce83b35fcc_o.jpg
This one isn't mine, but it's close. Mine is Diamond Black. I usually just drive it on weekends.

Most of the time, I limp along in this:
http://www.partstrain.com/images/The_Auto_Blog/Porsche-Cayman-S-010.jpg

Porsche owner. BMW owner. Attorney at law. Homecoming queen wife.

Apparently, I am a tool of the highest order.

Add "SOONER" to the mix and I'm an aggie's worst nightmare!

[C&CDean]

Dude, sports cars are like soooo 1970's...

[olevetonahill]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/2871984762_ce83b35fcc_o.jpg
This one isn't mine, but it's close. Mine is Diamond Black. I usually just drive it on weekends.

Most of the time, I limp along in this:
http://www.partstrain.com/images/The_Auto_Blog/Porsche-Cayman-S-010.jpg

Porsche owner. BMW owner. Attorney at law. Homecoming queen wife.

Apparently, I am a tool of the highest order.

Add "SOONER" to the mix and I'm an aggie's worst nightmare!

See theres the Prob bro
Most of us caint afford the High Maintenance cost of any of those, Including the Homecoming Queen :hot: :cool:

[Oldnslo]

Dude, sports cars are like soooo 1970's...

Oldnslo's Rule of Cool:

If it made you drool when you were a kid, you'll want it when you're grown.


Note that I didn't say, "grown UP". I have serious doubts that I'll ever do that.

I always wanted to learn martial arts--got my black belt when I was 43. The drum lessons my folks wouldn't let me have? The HQ gave me drums and lessons a couple of years ago and I can put together some pretty good licks. I've finally got the kind of cars I've always wanted, but could never before afford...

Dude, I'm ready for high school!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

oldnslo pulling up to high school

http://imcdb.org/images/040/107.jpg

[Oldnslo]

The High School ride was a 1967 Chevy Impalla.

4 door.

gold. way oxidized.


It wasn't cool. Truuuuust me on this.

[SoonerJack]

The High School ride was a 1967 Chevy Impalla.

4 door.

gold. way oxidized.


It wasn't cool. Truuuuust me on this.

Mine was a '66 Pontiac Catalina WAGON. I believe it was possibly the uncoolest car a high school guy could drive in 1981.

[GottaHavePride]

All this yappin' and not a one of you humpers have recommended the Honda Civic GX -


Well, mainly because I'd have to chop my legs off at the shins to fit in a Honda.


http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/Reliability.jpg


Well, lookit that. Guess I picked right when I bought a Scion.

[sooneron]

How in the world is the Cooper Clubman soooo much better than the convertible? Leaks?

[sooneron]

Dude, sports cars are like soooo 1970's...
That must be the reason why no one watches Top Gear.:rolleyes:

[sooneron]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3081/2871984762_ce83b35fcc_o.jpg


Most of the time, I limp along in this:
http://www.partstrain.com/images/The_Auto_Blog/Porsche-Cayman-S-010.jpg

Porsche owner. BMW owner. Attorney at law. Homecoming queen wife.

Apparently, I am a tool of the highest order.

Add "SOONER" to the mix and I'm an aggie's worst nightmare!

I'd take a Cayman S over a 911. With the exception of the GT3.:D

[GKeeper316]

Mine was a '66 Pontiac Catalina WAGON. I believe it was possibly the uncoolest car a high school guy could drive in 1981.

i got that beat...

79 chevy chevette my dad bought for 300 bucks. in 1986.

and ill argue this all day with anyone... the 1979 chevette is the most indestructible car ever built. me and my brother tried to destroy that car for 5 years, even driving it straight into a brick wall doing 30 mph... the vette just shrugged it off.

[C&CDean]

That must be the reason why all the insecure, balding, pot-bellied, mid-life crisis geekazoids watch Top Gear.:rolleyes:

Probably. I've never heard of the show.

[GottaHavePride]

It's on BBC, Dean. I think you'd dig it, Dean. I mean, in one episode they took a souped up Mitsubishi confiscated from a drug dealer and let the British Army blow the hell out of it with tanks. It was pretty sweet.

[C&CDean]

If they were blowing the hell out of bimmers and benzes I'd watch the **** out of it. Especially if the lecherous pervs who own them things are behind the wheel...:pop:

[Veritas]

If they were blowing the hell out of bimmers and benzes I'd watch the **** out of it. Especially if the lecherous pervs who own them things are behind the wheel...:pop:
They drove a Rolls Royce into a pool, dropped a piano on a Maserati Bi-turbo, and I think put a Porsche 911 into a garbage compactor (I can't remember exactly on that one). And they rag on people who own BMWs all the time, so there's that. :D

And I resent being called lecherous. :texan:

[GottaHavePride]

The best one was attempting to buy cars for under $1,500 and then drive them 1,000 miles across Botswana. That was hilarious.

[sooneron]

My personal fave was the RV race. That, or the muscle car trip from SF to Bonneville.

[sooneron]

For the clueless, like :dean:

Y84o9U04EFI

[C&CDean]

Clueless? Nope. Without utoob? Yep.

I blow **** up, shoot ****, mangle the hell outta **** all the damn time. I don't need to watch somebody do it on TV. I think I have BBC on the satellite, I've just never found it (or looked for it).

[sooneron]

In the case of Top Gear, yes. :D

[C&CDean]

In the case of Top Gear, yes. :D

Better to be clueless about Top Gear than not knowing **** from shinola about cars, yes.:texan:

[StoopTroup]

$750,000 pounds just for the Motor Home ain't to bad I guess as Luxury Motors Homes go....the car caddy makes it really sweet. I bet SicEm's Miata would even fit in there. Slap a few Zima Ads on the side and he'd be the **** in Mississippi. :D

[Oldnslo]

Better to be clueless about Top Gear than not knowing **** from shinola about cars, yes.:texan:

I KNOW! I KNOW! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsyS0oHLNFA)

[C&CDean]

You're gonna have to describe it to me. I can't utoob.

[sooneron]

Sage wisdom, yep, that's why I come here... :rolleyes:

[C&CDean]

Says bimmerboy in NYC.

[sooneron]

What can I say? 'Cept its just awesome knowing that my ignorant *** can go somewhere on the innerwebs and learn so much from someone that knows everything. :D

[C&CDean]

Truer words...:P

In all honesty, if I wanna know something about cameras and the like I'd ask you and Lott's Bandana. In fact, I did. You guys recommended a Panasonic and I bought it. Why? Cause I don't know **** about cameras. It's a damn fine camera if I say so myself.

I know automobiles, guns, cattle, and farm equipment. If you wanna know something about them, ask me. Just don't bitch when I tell you the one you bought is a POS. I'm glad you like it, but it doesn't make it a good car - and this thread was for a guy who's buying transportation. Why steer him wrong?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Shoulda told him to ride a cow to work.