Should Faisal Shahzad have been Mirandized? Why or why not?

[JohnnyMack]

Discuss.

[yermom]

was he?

seems like a good idea to me...

[Crucifax Autumn]

Like it or not it saves problems later at least.

[SicEmBaylor]

Yes, he was caught within the United States. Anyone, terrorist or not, should be mirandized if they're caught by US law enforcement within our borders. Further, they should be subject to US criminal courts.

However, if a terrorist is caught outside the country or taken prisoner on the battlefield then they have absolutely no rights in my estimation and sure as hell shouldn't be given any sort of constitutional protection.

[Breadburner]

Nope.... not in an issue such as this.....

[Stitch Face]

As an American citizen arrested in America...yes.

But I think the gov't needs to get its **** straightened out and come up with some sort of process for deciding, upon arrest, whether or not suspects are possibly working for/with foreign terror groups (e.g. Al Qaeda) as part of an organized plot; if there is reasonable suspicion/evidence at the time of capture then there could be legal authority to withhold Miranda for some court-ordered amount of time in order to interrogate the tar out of said suspect. I know that's a big can of worms likely requiring a change in the law (if not the constitution) but it just seems like there should be other options for intelligence gathering beyond the choice of throwing them in a hole in Gitmo vs letting them lawyer up/shut up immediately.

[tommieharris91]

Yes, he was caught within the United States. Anyone, terrorist or not, should be mirandized if they're caught by US law enforcement within our borders. Further, they should be subject to US criminal courts.

However, if a terrorist is caught outside the country or taken prisoner on the battlefield then they have absolutely no rights in my estimation and sure as hell shouldn't be given any sort of constitutional protection.

To add, he's a US Citizen. Thus, he should be Mirandized and tried as any other US citizen.

[SicEmBaylor]

To add, he's a US Citizen. Thus, he should be Mirandized and tried as any other US citizen.

Agreed.

[Boarder]

1. Don't Miranda him
a. He may give intel
b. He may clam up
c. He may be released on a technicality in court

2. Mirandize him
a. He may still give intel, it's not forbidden.
b. His lawyer may instruct him to be quiet.
c. He will not be released on a technicality (at least not that technicality).

I heard a Congressman last night saying that it was stupid to Mirandize him, since the intel was worth enough to warrant possibly letting him walk on a technicality. But, just because he was Mirandized, it doesn't mean that he wouldn't give up intel. SO, you could end up with nothing AND him walking.

Mirandize him, make a good case, and let the justice system work.

[JohnnyMack]

To add, he's a US Citizen. Thus, he should be Mirandized and tried as any other US citizen.

I agree with this stance. The reason I started this thread is that Hannity was having an orgasm on the radio tonight about the fact that Faisal was Mirandized. Hannity claimed that Faisal had somehow forfeited his rights as an American citizen because he had visited Pakistan and (it appears) met with known terrorists. Something in the synapses of my feeble brain didn't quite make the leap that Sean was able to make.

[KABOOKIE]

I think his towel head should be vaporized but, that's just me.

[Boarder]

In the court of public opinion, he may have forfeited his right to citizenship. However, in the court of reality, he didn't. Hannity does not seem to want to dabble in reality...it doesn't get ratings, apparently.

[JohnnyMack]

I think his towel head should be vaporized but, that's just me.

Thanks Judge Dredd.

[Mongo]

Thanks Judge Dredd.

Remember that time we stumbled upon that terror cell in the high parts of the Hindu Kush, and you took out that terror dude from 2 miles with your Cheytac .408?

that was awesome

[tommieharris91]

I agree with this stance. The reason I started this thread is that Hannity was having an orgasm on the radio tonight about the fact that Faisal was Mirandized. Hannity claimed that Faisal had somehow forfeited his rights as an American citizen because he had visited Pakistan and (it appears) met with known terrorists. Something in the synapses of my feeble brain didn't quite make the leap that Sean was able to make.

American diplomats have trouble making that leap too. In fact, Faisal didn't violate any of these. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1481.html)

[JohnnyMack]

Remember that time we stumbled upon that terror cell in the high parts of the Hindu Kush, and you took out that terror dude from 2 miles with your Cheytac .408?

that was awesome


I have a boner right now.

[sooneron]

:dean:

[John Kochtoston]

The fact that there is even debate about whether an American citizen arrested on American soil should be read his Miranda rights really scares me.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Hannity claimed that Faisal had somehow forfeited his rights as an American citizen because he had visited Pakistan and (it appears) met with known terrorists.

So has Geraldo. When can we get rid of him?

[olevetonahill]

http://musingsonpolitics.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/waterboard.jpg

[stoopified]

I think his towel head should be vaporized but, that's just me.I agree.The question is though if this should be done with or without Miranda warning.

[Harry Beanbag]

I agree with this stance. The reason I started this thread is that Hannity was having an orgasm on the radio tonight about the fact that Faisal was Mirandized. Hannity claimed that Faisal had somehow forfeited his rights as an American citizen because he had visited Pakistan and (it appears) met with known terrorists. Something in the synapses of my feeble brain didn't quite make the leap that Sean was able to make.


Haven't we as a board come to an approximate 99.6% agreement that Hannity is a small minded, loud mouthed, dim witted, broken record toolbox? Who cares what he says and why are you listening to him?

This terrorist POS is a U.S. citizen and committed a crime on U.S. soil (allegedly). He should have been Mirandized.

[Harry Beanbag]

I agree with this stance. The reason I started this thread is that Hannity was having an orgasm on the radio tonight about the fact that Faisal was Mirandized. Hannity claimed that Faisal had somehow forfeited his rights as an American citizen because he had visited Pakistan and (it appears) met with known terrorists. Something in the synapses of my feeble brain didn't quite make the leap that Sean was able to make.


Haven't we as a board come to an approximate 99.6% agreement that Hannity is a small minded, loud mouthed, dim witted, broken record toolbox? Who cares what he says and why are you listening to him?

This terrorist POS is a U.S. citizen and committed a crime on U.S. soil (allegedly). He should have been Mirandized.

[AlbqSooner]

While I agree he should have been Mirandized, it may be something of a moot point in this case. There is reportedly so much evidence against this guy OTHER than his statements that even if his statements are not allowed in evidence the prosecutor's case is quite strong.

[Stitch Face]

As an American citizen arrested in America...yes.

But I think the gov't needs to get its **** straightened out and come up with some sort of process for deciding, upon arrest, whether or not suspects are possibly working for/with foreign terror groups (e.g. Al Qaeda) as part of an organized plot; if there is reasonable suspicion/evidence at the time of capture then there could be legal authority to withhold Miranda for some court-ordered amount of time in order to interrogate the tar out of said suspect. I know that's a big can of worms likely requiring a change in the law (if not the constitution) but it just seems like there should be other options for intelligence gathering beyond the choice of throwing them in a hole in Gitmo vs letting them lawyer up/shut up immediately.

Doing some reading, turns out there is a "public safety exemption" to Miranda by which a suspect can (and was in this case) interrogated to some extent before being Mirandized, so all that stuff I rambled about is already in effect to some degree. How effective it is I have no idea.

[NormanPride]

Would this be considered a treasonous offense?

[GottaHavePride]

Would this be considered a treasonous offense?

Not legally. Trying to set off a car bomb in Times Square is a criminal act, but it's not "levying war against the United States". It is also not giving aid and comfort to enemies of the United States.

Also, Constitutionally you can only convict someone of treason either by confession in open court or on the testimony of TWO witnesses to the same treasonous act.

[Stitch Face]

Not legally. Trying to set off a car bomb in Times Square is a criminal act, but it's not "levying war against the United States". It is also not giving aid and comfort to enemies of the United States.


Not so sure. If found to be trained by/working for an organized foreign group then wouldn't he be "levying war" with them against the US and "aiding" them by serving as a foot soldier in the conflict?

[Stitch Face]

Also, does anyone else think "fo'shizzle shazam" whenever reading this guy's name?

[GKeeper316]

I agree with this stance. The reason I started this thread is that Hannity was having an orgasm on the radio tonight about the fact that Faisal was Mirandized. Hannity claimed that Faisal had somehow forfeited his rights as an American citizen because he had visited Pakistan and (it appears) met with known terrorists. Something in the synapses of my feeble brain didn't quite make the leap that Sean was able to make.

enlisting in a foreign army is one way to give up your US citizenship.

Al-Queda isnt a foreign military organization... just a terrorist group with no national allegance, so he didnt give up his citizenship.

Hannity is, of course, often wrong in his assumptions and opinions.

dude is a US citizen, and like it or not, is entitled to due process.

[Fugue]

I don't care about this guys Miranda rights.
I'm more concerned about whether or not he knows of other bombs that are set.

[GottaHavePride]

Not so sure. If found to be trained by/working for an organized foreign group then wouldn't he be "levying war" with them against the US and "aiding" them by serving as a foot soldier in the conflict?


By setting off a bomb in Times Square? That doesn't serve any sort of military agenda other than injuring and scaring the crap out of a bunch of people. Which to me = nutjob with a bomb, not treasonous activity.

Now, had he been planning to blow up some sort of governmental installation, then yes, I could see "treason".

[Stitch Face]

By setting off a bomb in Times Square? That doesn't serve any sort of military agenda other than injuring and scaring the crap out of a bunch of people. Which to me = nutjob with a bomb, not treasonous activity.

Now, had he been planning to blow up some sort of governmental installation, then yes, I could see "treason".

I don't know. The whole point of military action is to "injure and scare the crap out of a bunch of people." The Germans weren't aiming for government or military targets when they bombed London; we weren't targeting government or military when we nuked Japan, etc. etc. etc. Not to get too abstract, but the whole point of war is to destroy property, kill people, and scare the opposition into submission.

[Stitch Face]

By setting off a bomb in Times Square? That doesn't serve any sort of military agenda other than injuring and scaring the crap out of a bunch of people. Which to me = nutjob with a bomb, not treasonous activity.

Now, had he been planning to blow up some sort of governmental installation, then yes, I could see "treason".

Also, was McVey committing treason or was he a nutjob? Al Qaeda is a more organized military entity recruiting soldiers to do things like this than are local militia wingnuts.

[Breadburner]

The people in the SO are some much more inteligent then the folks on OP it almost blows my mind....No...I'm not kidding....