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View Full Version : Sheriff Joe WON'T RUN for Governor



RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 12:03 PM
He announced yesterday he will stay Sheriff. He said he didn't want the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors appointing a Sheriff.(he would have to resign as sheriff first, before running for governor) The County Board of Supervisors is a very pro-illegal group of politicos, that fight Joe's law enforcement efforts at every opportunity. I applaud his decision.

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 12:14 PM
Are you serious? This person is responsible for some of the greatest misuses of power we've seen in our modern society. He would have fit in far too well with Tammany Hall had he been a New Yorker of that era. He's a reprehensible person with no moral center.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 12:17 PM
Are you serious? This person is responsible for some of the greatest misuses of power we've seen in our modern society. He would have fit in far too well with Tammany Hall had he been a New Yorker of that era. He's a reprehensible person with no moral center.FWIW, The people of AZ tend to disagree with your D position.

TheHumanAlphabet
5/4/2010, 12:20 PM
Go Joe! You the man!!

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 12:26 PM
Are you serious? This person is responsible for some of the greatest misuses of power we've seen in our modern society. He would have fit in far too well with Tammany Hall had he been a New Yorker of that era. He's a reprehensible person with no moral center.

You've stated yer opinion, Do you have any facts to back it up ?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 12:45 PM
I'm not sure what a D position is, so I am not actually sure how to respond to that. You are correct, though. He is very popular with older, conservative, white people who are scared of immigrants, both legal and illegal. His strong stance on crime and immigration has done him wonders and bought him a tremendous amount of job security and power.

From Wikipedia about things I consider to be abuses or at the very least bad ideas:

Arpaio began to serve inmates surplus food and limited meals to twice daily.

Arpaio set up a "Tent City" as an extension of the Maricopa County Jail [15]. Tent City is located in a yard next to a more permanent structure containing toilets, showers, an area for meals, and a day room.[16] It has become notable particularly because of Phoenix's extreme temperatures.

Despite allegations of misuse of funds received from sales of pink underwear, Arpaio declined to provide an accounting for the money [22].

On March 3, 2009, the United States Department of Justice "notified Arpaio of the investigation in a letter saying his enforcement methods may unfairly target Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people." [32] Arpaio denied any wrongdoing and stated that he welcomed the investigation, and would cooperate fully.[33] By May, 2009, Arpaio had hired a Washington D.C. lobbyist, who wrote to Obama administration officials suggesting that the decision to probe Arpaio had been driven by political rivalries and score settling.[34] In July, 2009, Arpaio publicly stated that he would not cooperate with the investigation.[35]

In October 2009, the Department of Homeland Security removed the authority of Arpaio's 160 federally trained deputies to make immigration arrests in the field. Despite the actions of the Department of Homeland Security, Arpaio has maintained that he will still pursue illegal aliens under Arizona state law.[36]

Arpaio has instructed his sheriff's deputies and members of his civilian posse to arrest illegal aliens. Arpaio told the Washington Times, "My message is clear: if you come here and I catch you, you're going straight to jail.... I'm not going to turn these people over to federal authorities so they can have a free ride back to Mexico. I'll give them a free ride to my jail."[31]

* In March 2009, the United States Department of Justice notified Arpaio of that they were investigating him for civil rights violations, in unfairly targeting Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people.[32]
* In October 2009, it was reported that the FBI was investigating Arpaio for using his position to settle political vendettas.[37]
* In January 2010, it was reported that the Department of Justice has impaneled a grand jury to investigate allegations of abuse of power by Arpaio.[38]
* In March 2010, it was reported that an investigation into Arpaio is "serious and ongoing", according to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. [39]

New reports show that, under Arpaio, the MCSO may be improperly clearing as many as 75% of cases without arrest or proper investigation.

Starting in July 2000, the Maricopa County Sheriff's website hosted Jail Cam, a 24-hour Internet webcast of images from cameras in the Madison Street Jail, a facility which processed and housed only pretrial detainees.

U.S. District Court Judge Earl H. Carroll held in favor of the former detainees, issuing an injunction ending the webcasts. By a 2 to 1 vote, a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the injunction, with the majority opinion stating:

Under Arpaio, the Maricopa County Jails have lost accreditation multiple times.[56] In September, 2008, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care terminated the health care accreditation of all Maricopa County Sheriff's Office jails for failure to maintain compliance with national standards, and providing false information about such compliance. [57][58] In October, 2008, a U.S. district court judge ruled that the grossly inadequate conditions at the Maricopa County Jail, overseen by Arpaio, are unconstitutional and jeopardize the health and safety of prisoners.[59]

From 2004 through November 2007, Arpaio was the target of 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts, with more than $50 million in claims being filed,[60] 50 times as many prison-conditions lawsuits as the New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.[61] Allegations of cruel treatment of inmates as well as living conditions have been cited by Amnesty International in a report issued on the treatment of inmates in Maricopa County facilities.[62]

In August 2001, Charles Agster, a 33-year-old mentally handicapped man, died in the county jail three days after being forced by sheriff's officers into a restraint chair used for controlling combative arrestees.

One major controversy includes the 1996 death of inmate Scott Norberg, a former Brigham Young University football wide receiver, who died while in custody of the Sheriff's office. After Norberg's corpse was discovered, detention officers accused Norberg of attacking them as they were trying to restrain him. The cause of his death, according to the Maricopa County medical examiner, was due to "positional asphyxia". Sheriff Arpaio investigated and subsequently cleared detention officers of any criminal wrongdoing.[69]

Richard Post was a paraplegic inmate arrested in 1996 for possession of marijuana and criminal trespass. Post was placed in a restraint chair by guards and his neck was broken in the process. The event, caught on video, shows guards smiling and laughing while Post is being injured

In 2009, the East Valley Tribune ran a series of articles that criticized the Maricopa County sheriff for a decline in normal police protection due to an increased focus towards arresting illegal immigrants.[82] The five-part series titled “Reasonable Doubt,” which received a Pulitzer Prize for local reporting, described "slow emergency response times and lax criminal enforcement." [83]

Arpaio's practices have been criticized by organizations such as Amnesty International,[62] the American Civil Liberties Union, the Arizona Ecumenical Council, the American Jewish Committee,[86] and the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League.[87] The editorial board of The New York Times called Arpaio "America's Worst Sheriff".[88]


So...there's that. Plus, there was no mention of the multi-hundred-thousand dollar bus that was needed for "prisoner transport" but has never been used for such. So there's abuse, there's fraud, AND there's coverup. He's a real Jack of all Trades.

TheHumanAlphabet
5/4/2010, 12:56 PM
I'm not sure what a D position is, so I am not actually sure how to respond to that. You are correct, though. He is very popular with older, conservative, white people who are scared of immigrants, both legal and illegal. His strong stance on crime and immigration has done him wonders and bought him a tremendous amount of job security and power.

From Wikipedia about things I consider to be abuses or at the very least bad ideas:

Arpaio began to serve inmates surplus food and limited meals to twice daily.

Arpaio set up a "Tent City" as an extension of the Maricopa County Jail [15]. Tent City is located in a yard next to a more permanent structure containing toilets, showers, an area for meals, and a day room.[16] It has become notable particularly because of Phoenix's extreme temperatures.

Despite allegations of misuse of funds received from sales of pink underwear, Arpaio declined to provide an accounting for the money [22].

On March 3, 2009, the United States Department of Justice "notified Arpaio of the investigation in a letter saying his enforcement methods may unfairly target Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people." [32] Arpaio denied any wrongdoing and stated that he welcomed the investigation, and would cooperate fully.[33] By May, 2009, Arpaio had hired a Washington D.C. lobbyist, who wrote to Obama administration officials suggesting that the decision to probe Arpaio had been driven by political rivalries and score settling.[34] In July, 2009, Arpaio publicly stated that he would not cooperate with the investigation.[35]

In October 2009, the Department of Homeland Security removed the authority of Arpaio's 160 federally trained deputies to make immigration arrests in the field. Despite the actions of the Department of Homeland Security, Arpaio has maintained that he will still pursue illegal aliens under Arizona state law.[36]

Arpaio has instructed his sheriff's deputies and members of his civilian posse to arrest illegal aliens. Arpaio told the Washington Times, "My message is clear: if you come here and I catch you, you're going straight to jail.... I'm not going to turn these people over to federal authorities so they can have a free ride back to Mexico. I'll give them a free ride to my jail."[31]

* In March 2009, the United States Department of Justice notified Arpaio of that they were investigating him for civil rights violations, in unfairly targeting Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people.[32]
* In October 2009, it was reported that the FBI was investigating Arpaio for using his position to settle political vendettas.[37]
* In January 2010, it was reported that the Department of Justice has impaneled a grand jury to investigate allegations of abuse of power by Arpaio.[38]
* In March 2010, it was reported that an investigation into Arpaio is "serious and ongoing", according to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. [39]

New reports show that, under Arpaio, the MCSO may be improperly clearing as many as 75% of cases without arrest or proper investigation.

Starting in July 2000, the Maricopa County Sheriff's website hosted Jail Cam, a 24-hour Internet webcast of images from cameras in the Madison Street Jail, a facility which processed and housed only pretrial detainees.

U.S. District Court Judge Earl H. Carroll held in favor of the former detainees, issuing an injunction ending the webcasts. By a 2 to 1 vote, a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the injunction, with the majority opinion stating:

Under Arpaio, the Maricopa County Jails have lost accreditation multiple times.[56] In September, 2008, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care terminated the health care accreditation of all Maricopa County Sheriff's Office jails for failure to maintain compliance with national standards, and providing false information about such compliance. [57][58] In October, 2008, a U.S. district court judge ruled that the grossly inadequate conditions at the Maricopa County Jail, overseen by Arpaio, are unconstitutional and jeopardize the health and safety of prisoners.[59]

From 2004 through November 2007, Arpaio was the target of 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts, with more than $50 million in claims being filed,[60] 50 times as many prison-conditions lawsuits as the New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.[61] Allegations of cruel treatment of inmates as well as living conditions have been cited by Amnesty International in a report issued on the treatment of inmates in Maricopa County facilities.[62]

In August 2001, Charles Agster, a 33-year-old mentally handicapped man, died in the county jail three days after being forced by sheriff's officers into a restraint chair used for controlling combative arrestees.

One major controversy includes the 1996 death of inmate Scott Norberg, a former Brigham Young University football wide receiver, who died while in custody of the Sheriff's office. After Norberg's corpse was discovered, detention officers accused Norberg of attacking them as they were trying to restrain him. The cause of his death, according to the Maricopa County medical examiner, was due to "positional asphyxia". Sheriff Arpaio investigated and subsequently cleared detention officers of any criminal wrongdoing.[69]

Richard Post was a paraplegic inmate arrested in 1996 for possession of marijuana and criminal trespass. Post was placed in a restraint chair by guards and his neck was broken in the process. The event, caught on video, shows guards smiling and laughing while Post is being injured

In 2009, the East Valley Tribune ran a series of articles that criticized the Maricopa County sheriff for a decline in normal police protection due to an increased focus towards arresting illegal immigrants.[82] The five-part series titled “Reasonable Doubt,” which received a Pulitzer Prize for local reporting, described "slow emergency response times and lax criminal enforcement." [83]

Arpaio's practices have been criticized by organizations such as Amnesty International,[62] the American Civil Liberties Union, the Arizona Ecumenical Council, the American Jewish Committee,[86] and the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League.[87] The editorial board of The New York Times called Arpaio "America's Worst Sheriff".[88]


So...there's that. Plus, there was no mention of the multi-hundred-thousand dollar bus that was needed for "prisoner transport" but has never been used for such. So there's abuse, there's fraud, AND there's coverup. He's a real Jack of all Trades.

I hope you don't have to miss three squares and ever camp out. OMG, there may not be air conditioning...

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 12:57 PM
So hes makin em sleep in tents? eat Surplus food ?
Oh noes thats just inhumane :confused:

At least they not gettin SHOT at, Poor babies :eek:
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/50692821.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=E41C9FE5C4AA0A147AB71FF6899D9ED7AADA4CB706FC3B52 9ACA4BD78D4404E1B01E70F2B3269972

These other things you brot up are not only investigated By the SO but also the ASBI, and prolly the FBI .

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 12:58 PM
I'm not sure what a D position is, so I am not actually sure how to respond to that. You are correct, though. He is very popular with older, conservative, white people who are scared of immigrants, both legal and illegal. His strong stance on crime and immigration has done him wonders and bought him a tremendous amount of job security and power.


...I wonder why you say older, white Americans are scared of immigrants? You didn't mention that most Americans(those with any gray matter) aren't happy with undocumented foreign nationals running around the country, as well as a great number with phony ID's. In your world, does one need to be older, conservative and white for those issues to concern you? haha

Harry Beanbag
5/4/2010, 01:01 PM
He's going after the low hanging fruit and biggest chunk of law breakers in his jurisdiction: illegal aliens. They account for 5-12% (wtf really knows?) of the population and 40+% of the crime here. In other words he's doing his job and it's lib pansy, vote whoring, race baiting, America apologists giving him a hard time about it.

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 01:15 PM
Allow me to re-quote a particular passage from above in response to people who say "stop crying, at least you're not at war"

In October, 2008, a U.S. district court judge ruled that the grossly inadequate conditions at the Maricopa County Jail, overseen by Arpaio, are unconstitutional and jeopardize the health and safety of prisoners.

Secondly, I've never said that ALL older white people are scared of immigrants. The ones that vote for Joe are, however.

Thirdly, to Harry, the issue is that he pursues illegals with a focus and purpose so severe, that it impairs his ability to effectively do his job. This is evidenced by his insane rate of closure (in some periods up to 85%) of cases with no arrest or investigation. Does that sound appropriate to anyone? Are 85% of the things people bring to the sheriff's office unimportant or invalid?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 01:18 PM
Vet, he IS absolutely under investigation for all of these things, you are correct, which is precisely why he would never run for any other office outside of MCSO. He'd be subject then to some sort of oversight that he would not be able to control via threats of force, imprisonment, or other tenuously legal means.

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 01:18 PM
Allow me to re-quote a particular passage from above in response to people who say "stop crying, at least you're not at war"

In October, 2008, a U.S. district court judge ruled that the grossly inadequate conditions at the Maricopa County Jail, overseen by Arpaio, are unconstitutional and jeopardize the health and safety of prisoners.

Then why isnt it shut down ?

Secondly, I've never said that ALL older white people are scared of immigrants. The ones that vote for Joe are, however.

Thirdly, to Harry, the issue is that he pursues illegals with a focus and purpose so severe, that it impairs his ability to effectively do his job. This is evidenced by his insane rate of closure (in some periods up to 85%) of cases with no arrest or investigation. Does that sound appropriate to anyone? Are 85% of the things people bring to the sheriff's office unimportant or invalid?

Now I think yer just making shat up .:pop:

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 01:36 PM
... I've never said that ALL older white people are scared of immigrants. The ones that vote for Joe are, however.

Once again you lumped in illegals with legal immigrants. Why is that?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 01:42 PM
Now I think yer just making shat up .:pop:

It's not shut down because who is going to enforce that ruling? This is the issue people have with Joe. He's supposed to be the law of the land, and it's more than a little tough to have a federal agency step in and take over for a state-level institution without bringing all sorts of Sic 'Ems out of the woodworks about states' rights.

As to the percentages, here's the quoted portion of the wiki that I didn't think I needed to include in my rant above:

In an interview on the ABC Nightline news program, when asked to explain why 82 percent of cases were declared cleared by exception, Arpaio said "We do clear a higher percentage of that. I know that. We clear many, many cases -- not 18 percent." Nightline contacted the MCSO after the interview and was told that of 7,346 crimes, only 944, or 15%, had been cleared by arrest.[51]

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 01:45 PM
Once again you lumped in illegals with legal immigrants. Why is that?

Simply because I don't believe the fear to be limited to illegal immigrants. If you think differently, that's great. Is that your sense of the people that you know that think Joe is doing a great job? You feel that they value and love their legal immigrant neighbors but shake a mighty fist at those who skirt the law to be with their friends and relatives who arrived properly?

delhalew
5/4/2010, 01:51 PM
Next you're going to tell me these prisoners don't have cable television. Oh the humanity.

What you just demonstrated is that the Sheriff has had political war waged against him for a decade and all these liberal organizations with deep pockets have not been able to make any thing significant stick.

That says the sheriff is doing all lot of things right.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 01:51 PM
Simply because I don't believe the fear to be limited to illegal immigrants. If you think differently, that's great. Is that your sense of the people that you know that think Joe is doing a great job? You feel that they value and love their legal immigrant neighbors but shake a mighty fist at those who skirt the law to be with their friends and relatives who arrived properly?yes, people approve of Joe's performance because it's not a racial thing, but a legal thing. The illegals are lawbreakers. The legals are not.

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 01:52 PM
It's not shut down because who is going to enforce that ruling? This is the issue people have with Joe. He's supposed to be the law of the land, and it's more than a little tough to have a federal agency step in and take over for a state-level institution without bringing all sorts of Sic 'Ems out of the woodworks about states' rights.

[51]

HMMM Guess ya never heard of the Feds taking over The Oklahoma Prisons back in the early 70s huh ?

They can and DO take over . So If a Fed Judge says they are breakin the Law he can and will shut em down

Now as for yer Wikki quotes .
Well ya do know any one can post shat in that dont ya ?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 01:56 PM
HMMM Guess ya never heard of the Feds taking over The Oklahoma Prisons back in the early 70s huh ?

They can and DO take over . So If a Fed Judge says they are breakin the Law he can and will shut em down

Now as for yer Wikki quotes .
Well ya do know any one can post shat in that dont ya ?

The one I posted was from NBC Nightline. I didn't do the investigation myself, and it may be wrong, but it'd be a major news network getting their facts wrong, not some schlub from a blog.

The early 70's was just a couple of years before my time. I didn't get here until 1978. I don't think we're far off from seeing Joe forcibly removed from office, however. I just wonder whether it'll be a shootout when the feds come to take his toys away.

Harry Beanbag
5/4/2010, 01:57 PM
Next you're going to tell me these prisoners don't have cable television. Oh the humanity.

What you just demonstrated is that the Sheriff has had political war waged against him for a decade and all these liberal organizations with deep pockets have not been able to make any thing significant stick.

That says the sheriff is doing all lot of things right.


This.

Harry Beanbag
5/4/2010, 02:00 PM
Simply because I don't believe the fear to be limited to illegal immigrants. If you think differently, that's great. Is that your sense of the people that you know that think Joe is doing a great job? You feel that they value and love their legal immigrant neighbors but shake a mighty fist at those who skirt the law to be with their friends and relatives who arrived properly?


People who don't live at the center of the illegal storm may be surprised to find out that some of the staunchest opponents of illegals are in fact those who have immigrated here legally.

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 02:01 PM
Next you're going to tell me these prisoners don't have cable television. Oh the humanity.

What you just demonstrated is that the Sheriff has had political war waged against him for a decade and all these liberal organizations with deep pockets have not been able to make any thing significant stick.

That says the sheriff is doing all lot of things right.

The FBI, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care, United States Department of Justice, several US district courts, and the Department of Justice Office of Public Integrity aren't exactly known as bastions of liberal thinking, as far as I know.

Sure, he's had his run-ins with the ACLU and Anti-Defamation League, who definitely get painted with that brush, but that doesn't make their concerns invalid.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 02:03 PM
The one I posted was from NBC Nightline. I didn't do the investigation myself, and it may be wrong, but it'd be a major news network getting their facts wrong, not some schlub from a blog.

The early 70's was just a couple of years before my time. I didn't get here until 1978. I don't think we're far off from seeing Joe forcibly removed from office, however. I just wonder whether it'll be a shootout when the feds come to take his toys away. If Obama fires or removes Sheriff Joe from office, things would be worse than I perceive them already to be, and would create a new set of political conditions. Do you realize that, and where do you stand on the aftermath of such an act?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 02:05 PM
People who don't live at the center of the illegal storm may be surprised to find out that some of the staunchest opponents of illegals are in fact those who have immigrated here legally.

I believe that 100%. It has to be frustrating to follow the letter of the law and endure that grueling process only to see others lie and cheat and achieve similar results. I feel the same way about Joe. I see people honestly trying to solve the issue and work towards improving everyone's situation while punishing those who choose to break the law appropriately. Then there's Joe who says "I don't give a damn if they're supposed to be deported, if I find em, I'll put em in my tent jail forever."

He's lying, cheating, and strongarming the legislature and populace of one of the booming population centers in the nation, and he gets applauded because he's "tough on crime". It makes me sad and angry.

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 02:07 PM
If Obama fires or removes Sheriff Joe from office, things would be worse than I perceive them already to be, and would create a new set of political conditions. Do you realize that, and where do you stand on the aftermath of such an act?

I understand that the President is the head of the Executive Branch and therefore the end of the line as far as law enforcement goes, but what the hell does Obama have to do with Joe being removed from office for defrauding the state and operating dangerous detention facilities?

These issues and investigations have been going on since well before Obama was president, and continue to go on with or without his direct supervision.

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 02:12 PM
SAKU, The more you post the More I realize Ya aint got a clue .:rolleyes:

TheHumanAlphabet
5/4/2010, 02:13 PM
I believe that 100%. It has to be frustrating to follow the letter of the law and endure that grueling process only to see others lie and cheat and achieve similar results. I feel the same way about Joe. I see people honestly trying to solve the issue and work towards improving everyone's situation while punishing those who choose to break the law appropriately. Then there's Joe who says "I don't give a damn if they're supposed to be deported, if I find em, I'll put em in my tent jail forever."

He's lying, cheating, and strongarming the legislature and populace of one of the booming population centers in the nation, and he gets applauded because he's "tough on crime". It makes me sad and angry.

Makes me happy he is holding the line against law breakers and illegals...

OULenexaman
5/4/2010, 02:13 PM
If Obama fires or removes Sheriff Joe from office,

I'd like to see that....:pop:

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 02:14 PM
I understand that the President is the head of the Executive Branch and therefore the end of the line as far as law enforcement goes, but what the hell does Obama have to do with Joe being removed from office for DEFRAUDING THE STATE and operating DANGEROUS DETENTION FACILITIES?

Fraudulent, politically motivated charges have a way of attracting the public's attention. If the Obama administration "allows removal from office to happen", eyes will focus there.

TheHumanAlphabet
5/4/2010, 02:18 PM
Fraudulent, politically motivated charges have a way of attracting the public's attention. If the Obama administration "allows removal from office to happen", eyes will focus there.

Just ask Tom Delay about fraudulent charges...

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 02:21 PM
Fraudulent, politically motivated charges have a way of attracting the public's attention. If the Obama administration "allows removal from office to happen", eyes will focus there.

Would you mind citing some of those fraudulent charges? My research only turned up those that actually went to court, were settled, or are still ongoing.

Thanks.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 02:22 PM
Just ask Tom Delay about fraudulent charges...At that time, the entire country had not been shat upon, yet.

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 02:23 PM
SAKU, The more you post the More I realize Ya aint got a clue .:rolleyes:

I really don't understand here. You asked some questions because something either wasn't clear or you didn't read it. I answered. I'm not sure what I said that was so clueless.

Educate me. Learn me somethin' today. I'm here to have a discussion about something and kill some time waiting for some reports to run. This just happens to be a hot-button topic for me. Can't really explain why.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 02:26 PM
Would you mind citing some of those fraudulent charges? My research only turned up those that actually went to court, were settled, or are still ongoing.

Thanks. Apology, here. I will change the adjective from fraudulent to frivolous. Your folks are famous for frivolous charges against political enemies.

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 02:28 PM
I really don't understand here. You asked some questions because something either wasn't clear or you didn't read it. I answered. I'm not sure what I said that was so clueless.

Educate me. Learn me somethin' today. I'm here to have a discussion about something and kill some time waiting for some reports to run. This just happens to be a hot-button topic for me. Can't really explain why.

K Brb
Gonna go back and Reread yer posts

King Crimson
5/4/2010, 02:28 PM
the first thing Sheriff Joe will do is repeal the Fairness Doctrine.....which had kept Rush off the air for the last 16 months.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 02:32 PM
the first thing Sheriff Joe will do is repeal the Fairness Doctrine.....which had kept Rush off the air for the last 16 months.You're right. The Regime hasn't yet done anything to stifle talk radio.

King Crimson
5/4/2010, 02:38 PM
that whole free speech thing is kinda for real, ain't it?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 02:43 PM
Apology, here. I will change the adjective from fraudulent to frivolous. Your folks are famous for frivolous charges against political enemies.

I'm sure you're right on this point, actually. Once the ball gets rolling, I'll guarantee that there are people jumping on the bandwagon to try and get paid. I don't know why you're saying "your folks" here. I've never sued anyone, frivolous or otherwise.

And let's be careful here, because some of the federal investigations against Joe allege that he himself has engaged in the exact behavior you are attributing to "my folks". Only they're using stronger language than frivolous.

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 02:45 PM
I'm not sure what a D position is, so I am not actually sure how to respond to that. You are correct, though. He is very popular with older, conservative, white people who are scared of immigrants, both legal and illegal. His strong stance on crime and immigration has done him wonders and bought him a tremendous amount of job security and power.

From Wikipedia about things I consider to be abuses or at the very least bad ideas:

Arpaio began to serve inmates surplus food and limited meals to twice daily.

Arpaio set up a "Tent City" as an extension of the Maricopa County Jail [15]. Tent City is located in a yard next to a more permanent structure containing toilets, showers, an area for meals, and a day room.[16] It has become notable particularly because of Phoenix's extreme temperatures.

Despite allegations of misuse of funds received from sales of pink underwear, Arpaio declined to provide an accounting for the money [22].

On March 3, 2009, the United States Department of Justice "notified Arpaio of the investigation in a letter saying his enforcement methods may unfairly target Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people." [32] Arpaio denied any wrongdoing and stated that he welcomed the investigation, and would cooperate fully.[33] By May, 2009, Arpaio had hired a Washington D.C. lobbyist, who wrote to Obama administration officials suggesting that the decision to probe Arpaio had been driven by political rivalries and score settling.[34] In July, 2009, Arpaio publicly stated that he would not cooperate with the investigation.[35]

In October 2009, the Department of Homeland Security removed the authority of Arpaio's 160 federally trained deputies to make immigration arrests in the field. Despite the actions of the Department of Homeland Security, Arpaio has maintained that he will still pursue illegal aliens under Arizona state law.[36]

Arpaio has instructed his sheriff's deputies and members of his civilian posse to arrest illegal aliens. Arpaio told the Washington Times, "My message is clear: if you come here and I catch you, you're going straight to jail.... I'm not going to turn these people over to federal authorities so they can have a free ride back to Mexico. I'll give them a free ride to my jail."[31]

* In March 2009, the United States Department of Justice notified Arpaio of that they were investigating him for civil rights violations, in unfairly targeting Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people.[32]
* In October 2009, it was reported that the FBI was investigating Arpaio for using his position to settle political vendettas.[37]
* In January 2010, it was reported that the Department of Justice has impaneled a grand jury to investigate allegations of abuse of power by Arpaio.[38]
* In March 2010, it was reported that an investigation into Arpaio is "serious and ongoing", according to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. [39]

New reports show that, under Arpaio, the MCSO may be improperly clearing as many as 75% of cases without arrest or proper investigation.

Starting in July 2000, the Maricopa County Sheriff's website hosted Jail Cam, a 24-hour Internet webcast of images from cameras in the Madison Street Jail, a facility which processed and housed only pretrial detainees.

U.S. District Court Judge Earl H. Carroll held in favor of the former detainees, issuing an injunction ending the webcasts. By a 2 to 1 vote, a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the injunction, with the majority opinion stating:

Under Arpaio, the Maricopa County Jails have lost accreditation multiple times.[56] In September, 2008, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care terminated the health care accreditation of all Maricopa County Sheriff's Office jails for failure to maintain compliance with national standards, and providing false information about such compliance. [57][58] In October, 2008, a U.S. district court judge ruled that the grossly inadequate conditions at the Maricopa County Jail, overseen by Arpaio, are unconstitutional and jeopardize the health and safety of prisoners.[59]

From 2004 through November 2007, Arpaio was the target of 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts, with more than $50 million in claims being filed,[60] 50 times as many prison-conditions lawsuits as the New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.[61] Allegations of cruel treatment of inmates as well as living conditions have been cited by Amnesty International in a report issued on the treatment of inmates in Maricopa County facilities.[62]

In August 2001, Charles Agster, a 33-year-old mentally handicapped man, died in the county jail three days after being forced by sheriff's officers into a restraint chair used for controlling combative arrestees.

One major controversy includes the 1996 death of inmate Scott Norberg, a former Brigham Young University football wide receiver, who died while in custody of the Sheriff's office. After Norberg's corpse was discovered, detention officers accused Norberg of attacking them as they were trying to restrain him. The cause of his death, according to the Maricopa County medical examiner, was due to "positional asphyxia". Sheriff Arpaio investigated and subsequently cleared detention officers of any criminal wrongdoing.[69]

Richard Post was a paraplegic inmate arrested in 1996 for possession of marijuana and criminal trespass. Post was placed in a restraint chair by guards and his neck was broken in the process. The event, caught on video, shows guards smiling and laughing while Post is being injured

In 2009, the East Valley Tribune ran a series of articles that criticized the Maricopa County sheriff for a decline in normal police protection due to an increased focus towards arresting illegal immigrants.[82] The five-part series titled “Reasonable Doubt,” which received a Pulitzer Prize for local reporting, described "slow emergency response times and lax criminal enforcement." [83]

Arpaio's practices have been criticized by organizations such as Amnesty International,[62] the American Civil Liberties Union, the Arizona Ecumenical Council, the American Jewish Committee,[86] and the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League.[87] The editorial board of The New York Times called Arpaio "America's Worst Sheriff".[88]


So...there's that. Plus, there was no mention of the multi-hundred-thousand dollar bus that was needed for "prisoner transport" but has never been used for such. So there's abuse, there's fraud, AND there's coverup. He's a real Jack of all Trades.

From the start ya said ya got this from WIKII


It's not shut down because who is going to enforce that ruling? This is the issue people have with Joe. He's supposed to be the law of the land, and it's more than a little tough to have a federal agency step in and take over for a state-level institution without bringing all sorts of Sic 'Ems out of the woodworks about states' rights.

As to the percentages, here's the quoted portion of the wiki that I didn't think I needed to include in my rant above:

In an interview on the ABC Nightline news program, when asked to explain why 82 percent of cases were declared cleared by exception, Arpaio said "We do clear a higher percentage of that. I know that. We clear many, many cases -- not 18 percent." Nightline contacted the MCSO after the interview and was told that of 7,346 crimes, only 944, or 15%, had been cleared by arrest.[51]

As Ive said The Feds can and Do shut down Local law enforcement/ Jails all the time
Ever hear off "OVER CROWDING" early release?

Now as to yer %centages , He disputed em , You never came back with anything else .


The one I posted was from NBC Nightline. I didn't do the investigation myself, and it may be wrong, but it'd be a major news network getting their facts wrong, not some schlub from a blog.

The early 70's was just a couple of years before my time. I didn't get here until 1978. I don't think we're far off from seeing Joe forcibly removed from office, however. I just wonder whether it'll be a shootout when the feds come to take his toys away.

Which explains part of why I said Ya dont know waht ya talkin about


The FBI, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care, United States Department of Justice, several US district courts, and the Department of Justice Office of Public Integrity aren't exactly known as bastions of liberal thinking, as far as I know.

Sure, he's had his run-ins with the ACLU and Anti-Defamation League, who definitely get painted with that brush, but that doesn't make their concerns invalid.

Since to my understanding you[ really didnt say anything here Ill let it pass./COLOR]


I believe that 100%. It has to be frustrating to follow the letter of the law and endure that grueling process only to see others lie and cheat and achieve similar results. I feel the same way about Joe. I see people honestly trying to solve the issue and work towards improving everyone's situation while punishing those who choose to break the law appropriately. [COLOR="Red"]Then there's Joe who says "I don't give a damn if they're supposed to be deported, if I find em, I'll put em in my tent jail forever."


What part of this system do you not understand ? The Sheriff, and His Deputies make the Arrest. A Judge and Jury sentence em to Jail. The Sheriff, Can not hold any one for more rhan 72 hours whith Filing charges and thta person getting to face a Judge .


He's lying, cheating, and strongarming the legislature and populace of one of the booming population centers in the nation, and he gets applauded because he's "tough on crime". It makes me sad and angry.

Seems to me like the populace in his county Approve of what hes doing . So the rest of us need to STFU


I understand that the President is the head of the Executive Branch and therefore the end of the line as far as law enforcement goes, but what the hell does Obama have to do with Joe being removed from office for defrauding the state and operating dangerous detention facilities?

These issues and investigations have been going on since well before Obama was president, and continue to go on with or without his direct supervision.

Seems like If these Alegations had any merit they would have already resulted in Joe gettin the boot and having Charges filed against Him .

I rest my case

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 03:02 PM
From the start ya said ya got this from WIKII

The quotes I took from Wikipedia are all independently cited from other sources. There are a ton of stories on there about his employees killing puppies and other things that aren't cited, so I didn't list them. Plus, those are anecdotal, so they don't hold much weight for me.

Now as to yer %centages , He disputed em , You never came back with anything else .

His office provided the statistics in question. He never disputed the numbers. Here's the quote from Nightline:

Nightline contacted the MCSO (that's Joe's office, by the way) after the interview and was told that of 7,346 crimes, only 944, or 15%, had been cleared by arrest.


Which explains part of why I said Ya dont know waht ya talkin about

This is about me not knowing details of the federal government takeover of Oklahoma jails. Why don't you tell me about it and help me learn something today. I'm honestly intrigued, because that's not something that gets brought up very often. I would actually appreciate it.

Since to my understanding you[ really didnt say anything here Ill let it pass.

This part wasn't directed at you, but at someone who said that liberals had a problem with his actions. I was explaining how some pretty non-liberal organizations have a problem as well.

Seems to me like the populace in his county Approve of what hes doing . So the rest of us need to STFU

He's being re-elected in landslides. There's no argument that he's popular with a constituency that is increasingly older, white, and conservative. People are retiring to Phoenix, and it's grown exponentially in the last 20 years. I'm even sure that his policies are drawing certain demographics to the area. The question is whether or not he's doing GOOD things, not whether those things are popular.

Seems like If these Allegations had any merit they would have already resulted in Joe getting the boot and having Charges filed against Him .

Here are the statements from law enforcement officials:

* In March 2009, the United States Department of Justice notified Arpaio of that they were investigating him for civil rights violations, in unfairly targeting Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people.[32]
* In October 2009, it was reported that the FBI was investigating Arpaio for using his position to settle political vendettas.[37]
* In January 2010, it was reported that the Department of Justice has impaneled a grand jury to investigate allegations of abuse of power by Arpaio.[38]
* In March 2010, it was reported that an investigation into Arpaio is "serious and ongoing", according to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. [39]

This thing is very much in motion. These things take time.

C&CDean
5/4/2010, 03:02 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd sure like to have a Sheriff Joe in Oklahoma.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 03:07 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd sure like to have a Sheriff Joe in Oklahoma.You have Jim Inhofe. We don't have a senator that good. But, Sheriff Joes really is a beaut, ain't he?

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 03:13 PM
Here are the statements from law enforcement officials:

* In March 2009, the United States Department of Justice notified Arpaio of that they were investigating him for civil rights violations, in unfairly targeting Hispanics and Spanish-speaking people.[32]
* In October 2009, it was reported that the FBI was investigating Arpaio for using his position to settle political vendettas.[37]
* In January 2010, it was reported that the Department of Justice has impaneled a grand jury to investigate allegations of abuse of power by Arpaio.[38]
* In March 2010, it was reported that an investigation into Arpaio is "serious and ongoing", according to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. [39]

This thing is very much in motion. These things take time.

And ANY time some one makes an unfair allegation . "the One who has been alleged to have done something wrong, is going to be Investigated"

I have a feeling you are so far away from whats happening that you are just hearing what you want to hear and seeing what ya want to see.

From what I can gather of yer stand here , You seem to think that Ole Joe is another Noriega and The feds are Gonna have to Invade Az to topple him .:rolleyes:


And Like Dean said
it wouldnt hurt a dayum thing to Have More of him all over the country:cool:

OULenexaman
5/4/2010, 03:26 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I'd sure like to have a Sheriff Joe in Oklahoma.

You can't have him.....I got 1st dibs on 'em here in IL. Back of the line pal..:D

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 03:32 PM
You don't create a grand jury if something has zero merit as a case. That's not how you keep your job at the DOJ. Also, you have the Attorney General saying that there is a "serious and ongoing" investigation. I'm honestly not sure if you're reading these things I'm writing.

My point is that we have someone who is doing (allegedly) criminal and immoral things in the name of keeping his community safe. The people he's not threatening love him, which makes sense. It's unlikely that someone like RLIMC would be unfairly targeted for racial profiling. The same people would have no problem standing up to someone who was trying to raise income taxes to fund a service they don't themselves use. It's the same argument that people use when other freedoms are taken away. It's not affecting me, so what's wrong with it?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 03:36 PM
I'm curious as to what use someone like Joe would be in Illinois. Is there a portion of the population which can be blamed to easily explain away all of your state's financial troubles and crime? If so, it might be useful to put them all in tents somewhere along Lake Michigan during the winter. Try that and you'll have a Lite version of Joe to test out. If you like it and can offer him immunity from state level prosecution and a retirement-age white population to keep him in office, I think he might jump at the change in scenery.

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 03:36 PM
You don't create a grand jury if something has zero merit as a case. That's not how you keep your job at the DOJ. Also, you have the Attorney General saying that there is a "serious and ongoing" investigation. I'm honestly not sure if you're reading these things I'm writing.


Ur right I aint read most of it Because you started out citing Wikki as yer source
My point is that we have someone who is doing (allegedly) criminal and immoral things in the name of keeping his community safe. The people he's not threatening love him, which makes sense. It's unlikely that someone like RLIMC would be unfairly targeted for racial profiling. The same people would have no problem standing up to someone who was trying to raise income taxes to fund a service they don't themselves use. It's the same argument that people use when other freedoms are taken away. It's not affecting me, so what's wrong with it?

Seems Like the ONLY ones hes Threatening to are ILLEGALs and Other crooks
Jes sayin

OULenexaman
5/4/2010, 03:38 PM
Eric Holder is not even sure what planet he is on.....

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 03:45 PM
You don't create a grand jury if something has zero merit as a case. That's not how you keep your job at the DOJ. Also, you have the Attorney General saying that there is a "serious and ongoing" investigation. I'm honestly not sure if you're reading these things I'm writing.

My point is that we have someone who is doing (allegedly) criminal and immoral things in the name of keeping his community safe. The people he's not threatening love him, which makes sense. It's unlikely that someone like RLIMC would be unfairly targeted for racial profiling. The same people would have no problem standing up to someone who was trying to raise income taxes to fund a service they don't themselves use. It's the same argument that people use when other freedoms are taken away. It's not affecting me, so what's wrong with it?Sheriff Joe is going after illegals. They are here ILLEGALLY. The fed govt. was supposed to stop most illegal immigration with a border fence and other measures. They haven't even tried. Best we can do is send those caught here illegally back to Huehuetanango, Cairo, Kabul, etc. Sorry for your having problems with that, by conjuring up tax applications, etc.

OULenexaman
5/4/2010, 03:55 PM
I'm curious as to what use someone like Joe would be in Illinois. Is there a portion of the population which can be blamed to easily explain away all of your state's financial troubles and crime? If so, it might be useful to put them all in tents somewhere along Lake Michigan during the winter. Try that and you'll have a Lite version of Joe to test out. If you like it and can offer him immunity from state level prosecution and a retirement-age white population to keep him in office, I think he might jump at the change in scenery.

Excellent idea!! And he could make damn sure the front of those tents are facing NNE.....

C&CDean
5/4/2010, 03:58 PM
I'm curious as to what use someone like Joe would be in Illinois. Is there a portion of the population which can be blamed to easily explain away all of your state's financial troubles and crime? If so, it might be useful to put them all in tents somewhere along Lake Michigan during the winter. Try that and you'll have a Lite version of Joe to test out. If you like it and can offer him immunity from state level prosecution and a retirement-age white population to keep him in office, I think he might jump at the change in scenery.

When you grow up you're gonna be just like King Crimson, ain't ya?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 04:00 PM
Sheriff Joe is going after illegals. They are here ILLEGALLY. The fed govt. was supposed to stop most illegal immigration with a border fence and other measures. They haven't even tried. Best we can do is send those caught here illegally back to Huehuetanango, Cairo, Kabul, etc. Sorry for your having problems with that, by conjuring up tax applications, etc.

He's going after illegals, doing it illegally, and doing it at the expense of all of the other responsibilities that come with being Sheriff. Is that really all you want your elected law enforcement to do? Shouldn't he also investigate the non-illegal-immigrant related crimes?

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 04:01 PM
When you grow up you're gonna be just like King Crimson, ain't ya?

I'm a pretty good cook, but I could never make a living in the business.

=)

I don't know why this is one issue that gets me, but it just really rubs me the wrong way. This sort of thing was supposed to be stomped out by the 1940s, and certainly by the functional end of the American Mafia.

Also, it was a LITTLE funny, wasn't it?

Bourbon St Sooner
5/4/2010, 04:06 PM
I can't believe the founding fathers left the inalienable right to air conditioning out of the constitution.

Of course, you can tell they were evil. I mean G. Washington made his soldiers cross the Delaware River in the cold. Bastage!

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/4/2010, 04:06 PM
He's going after illegals, doing it illegally, and doing it at the expense of all of the other responsibilities that come with being Sheriff. Is that really all you want your elected law enforcement to do? Shouldn't he also investigate the non-illegal-immigrant related crimes?Says you, and I think you are wrong. Besides, illegal entry is a BIGASS crime in the minds of most citizens...maybe not you.

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 04:08 PM
He's going after illegals, doing it illegally, and doing it at the expense of all of the other responsibilities that come with being Sheriff. Is that really all you want your elected law enforcement to do? Shouldn't he also investigate the non-illegal-immigrant related crimes?

Did Sheriff Joe do this to yer post toasties ?

http://a409.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/84/l_116b40650e92115fbb71170a8357cf88.jpg

SoonerAtKU
5/4/2010, 04:09 PM
He DID! That's another thing I think he should be brought up on charges for!

olevetonahill
5/4/2010, 04:11 PM
Thas what I thot :D

Harry Beanbag
5/4/2010, 11:57 PM
He's being re-elected in landslides. There's no argument that he's popular with a constituency that is increasingly older, white, and conservative. People are retiring to Phoenix, and it's grown exponentially in the last 20 years. I'm even sure that his policies are drawing certain demographics to the area. The question is whether or not he's doing GOOD things, not whether those things are popular.


Ho-hum, somebody else that doesn't have a clue about Arizona.


Races in Phoenix:

White Non-Hispanic (55.8%)
Hispanic (34.1%)
Other race (16.4%)
Black (5.1%)
Two or more races (3.3%)
American Indian (2.7%)(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Phoenix-Arizona.html#ixzz0n1kbBc7f (http://www.city-data.com/city/Phoenix-Arizona.html#ixzz0n1kbBc7f)


Median age comparisons:
Phoenix- 31
Oklahoma city- 35
Dallas- 31
Denver- 34
Los Angeles- 32
New York City- 34

Ton Loc
5/6/2010, 07:44 AM
I wonder what those figures would look like if you looked at only those who voted. Probably older white people - just like every other part of the country.

Of course, if you don't vote then kindly stfu.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/6/2010, 10:32 AM
I wonder what those figures would look like if you looked at only those who voted. Probably older white people - just like every other part of the country.

Of course, if you don't vote then kindly stfu.Older white people voted in the People's Republic of Obama?

John Kochtoston
5/6/2010, 01:09 PM
I wonder what those figures would look like if you looked at only those who voted. Probably older white people - just like every other part of the country.


Dunno, but the US Census gives the white population of Maricopa County at 80.4 percent.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=ChangeGeoContext&geo_id=05000US04013&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=Maricopa&_cityTown=Maricopa&_state=04000US04&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=

By comparison, Oklahoma County is about 70 percent white.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=ChangeGeoContext&geo_id=05000US40109&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=Oklahoma&_cityTown=Oklahoma&_state=04000US40&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=geoSelect&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=

C&CDean
5/6/2010, 01:12 PM
Dunno, but the US Census gives the white population of Maricopa County at 80.4 percent.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=ChangeGeoContext&geo_id=05000US04013&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=Maricopa&_cityTown=Maricopa&_state=04000US04&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=

By comparison, Oklahoma County is about 70 percent white.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_event=ChangeGeoContext&geo_id=05000US40109&_geoContext=&_street=&_county=Oklahoma&_cityTown=Oklahoma&_state=04000US40&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=geoSelect&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=010&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=ACS_2008_3YR_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=

I'm pretty certain wetbacks don't count on census numbers.

I was raised in Tucson. I'd have to say it's a solid 50%+ hispanic and growing. Hell, even the road signs and crap were bilingual last time I was there.

John Kochtoston
5/6/2010, 01:27 PM
I'm pretty certain wetbacks don't count on census numbers.

I was raised in Tucson. I'd have to say it's a solid 50%+ hispanic and growing. Hell, even the road signs and crap were bilingual last time I was there.

Hispanics and Latinos are counted, its just that they can be counted under more than one race. Maricopa County reported about a 30 percent Latino population. Okla. County was at 12 percent.

C&CDean
5/6/2010, 02:52 PM
Trust me, Maricopa county is more than 30% Latino.

When I was living out there I knew lots of Mexican families that didn't participate in the census. They were scared of it. Most of them had 6-8 people living in the house legally, and many had several other family members there illegally. To many of them the census workers = La Migra.

Harry Beanbag
5/7/2010, 04:38 AM
Dunno, but the US Census gives the white population of Maricopa County at 80.4 percent.


LIke my link said, White non-Hispanic (European descent, you know the bad guys) is 55-60%. Hell, a quarter of the "white" people here are actually Hispanic.

Harry Beanbag
5/7/2010, 04:40 AM
Trust me, Maricopa county is more than 30% Latino.

When I was living out there I knew lots of Mexican families that didn't participate in the census. They were scared of it. Most of them had 6-8 people living in the house legally, and many had several other family members there illegally. To many of them the census workers = La Migra.

Yep. They "estimate" half a million illegals here, the vast majority of course are from Mexico or further south. That's a whole 'nuther 10% of the state population.

John Kochtoston
5/7/2010, 10:23 AM
LIke my link said, White non-Hispanic (European descent, you know the bad guys) is 55-60%. Hell, a quarter of the "white" people here are actually Hispanic.

Of course, your link referenced Phoenix, not all of Maricopa County. And, Joe got about 55% of the vote in the last election, BTW.

Tailwind
5/7/2010, 10:49 AM
Some of you people are giving me a headache. If you don't live in the middle of the ****-storm, you really don't know what you are talking about.

Flagstaffsooner
5/7/2010, 10:59 AM
Spek to Tailwind. She refused to make chicken tacos for dinner on Cinco de Mayo.

C&CDean
5/7/2010, 01:25 PM
That's cause she was too drunk from all the cervezas, margaritas, and tequila shots.

Flagstaffsooner
5/7/2010, 01:28 PM
That's cause she was too drunk from all the cervezas, margaritas, and tequila shots.Nope, she's two Jim Beam shots and one Natty girl.;)

Harry Beanbag
5/7/2010, 01:38 PM
Of course, your link referenced Phoenix, not all of Maricopa County.

So what are you saying?



And, Joe got about 55% of the vote in the last election, BTW.

So?

C&CDean
5/7/2010, 02:06 PM
Nope, she's two Jim Beam shots and one Natty girl.;)

Or what olevet calls a "cheap date?":P

John Kochtoston
5/7/2010, 02:57 PM
So what are you saying?




So?

What I'm saying is this:

1) All of Maricopa County, which includes 26 cities not named Phoenix, vote in Sheriff's elections. And suburbs of major American cities tend to be more affluent, older and whiter than the cities themselves.

2) Even if we use the 55% white number you provided, that number correlates to the number of votes Sheriff Joe received in the last election.

So, while admitting that correlation does not equal causation, there is some evidence that Joe's support comes from old white folks, an assertion Sooner at KU made.

And, the vast majority of folks serving time in Joe's tough on crime tent city are either awaiting trial or are serving time for misdemeanors. Joe knows this, yet he continues to keep on keeping on, wasting taxpayer dollars inviting lawsuits he knows he won't win. He's not saving his tough on crime tactics for those who might arguably deserve it.

If Arpaio was doing what he does to teach the worst offenders a lesson, his tactics might arguably have merit (I admit I'd take the other side of the argument, though). I'm sure this will label me as a bleeding-heart criminal coddler. So be it, though, frankly, I believe we underpunish serious, violent criminals and overpunish non-violent, non-serious offenses. I just don't believe Joe's strategies or tactics are effective or, frankly, within the spirit or letter of the US Constitution.

Harry Beanbag
5/7/2010, 03:20 PM
What I'm saying is this:

1) All of Maricopa County, which includes 26 cities not named Phoenix, vote in Sheriff's elections. And suburbs of major American cities tend to be more affluent, older and whiter than the cities themselves.

No ****. Except for no matter how you slice it up, there are more Hispanic people here (legally or otherwise) by percentage than just about anywhere else in America.



2) Even if we use the 55% white number you provided, that number correlates to the number of votes Sheriff Joe received in the last election.

So, while admitting that correlation does not equal causation, there is some evidence that Joe's support comes from old white folks, an assertion Sooner at KU made.

I know you are trying not to infer that every vote that Arpaio received was from a whitey, but you didn't do a very good job. I will guarantee you with absolute certainty that there are more white non-hispanic opponents to Sheriff Joe and the new Immigration Law than Hispanics and every other race combined.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/7/2010, 03:27 PM
I know you are trying not to infer that every vote that Arpaio received was from a whitey, but you didn't do a very good job. I will guarantee you with absolute certainty that there are more white non-hispanic opponents to Sheriff Joe and the new Immigration Law than Hispanics and every other race combined.Most democrats and the local media are opposed to Sheriff Joe...and the gawldarned Los Suns

Harry Beanbag
5/7/2010, 03:30 PM
Most democrats and the local media are opposed to Sheriff Joe.

Yep.

John Kochtoston
5/7/2010, 04:41 PM
No ****. Except for no matter how you slice it up, there are more Hispanic people here (legally or otherwise) by percentage than just about anywhere else in America.




I know you are trying not to infer that every vote that Arpaio received was from a whitey, but you didn't do a very good job. I will guarantee you with absolute certainty that there are more white non-hispanic opponents to Sheriff Joe and the new Immigration Law than Hispanics and every other race combined.

I'd say south Texas, New Mexico and California have similar Hispanic populations and immigration issues. And I've lived in two of those three places and didn't see near the vitriol towards the Hispanic populations that I see in Arizona. Plus, illegal aliens don't vote.

I'll also agree that since, by whichever metric you use, more than 1/2 of the people in Maricopa County are white, whites will make up the largest percentage of both Arpaio supporters and detractors. However, I'd be shocked if you could show me proof that a greater percentage of Arpaio detractors are white than the percentage of his supporters that are white.

John Kochtoston
5/7/2010, 04:42 PM
And, I'm sure you'll have a response to all of this. I've kinda gotta go off the grid for a while, so know I'm not ducking any discussion. It just may be a few days before I can respond.

Harry Beanbag
5/7/2010, 04:49 PM
And, I'm sure you'll have a response to all of this. I've kinda gotta go off the grid for a while, so know I'm not ducking any discussion. It just may be a few days before I can respond.


A response to what? Water is wet? Whitey is still the majority in Arizona? For now anyway.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
5/7/2010, 07:10 PM
A response to what? Water is wet? Whitey is still the majority in Arizona? For now anyway."illegal aliens don't vote."-John Kochtoston...heh

Flagstaffsooner
5/8/2010, 04:07 AM
"illegal aliens don't vote."-John Kochtoston...hehI dont know if they vote or not but the donks ie( janet napolitano) hire them to hold up "Vote Donk" signs around polling places. I ran down a mex with his sign in 2008.