Good Morning..."Four Dead in O-hio"

[Okla-homey]

May 4, 1970: Four students killed at Kent State University

40 years ago today, at Kent State University, 100 National Guardsmen fire their rifles into a group of students, killing four and wounding 11.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8766/xxxxxtheunitedstatesken.jpg
John Filo's iconic Pulitzer Prize-winning photograph of Mary Ann Vecchio, a fourteen-year-old runaway, kneeling over the dead body of Jeffrey Miller after he was shot by the National Guard.

This incident occurred in the aftermath of President Richard Nixon's April 30 announcement that U.S. and South Vietnamese forces had been ordered to execute an "incursion" into Cambodia to destroy North Vietnamese bases there. In protest, a wave of demonstrations and disturbances erupted on college campuses across the country.

At Kent State University in Ohio, student protesters torched the ROTC building on campus and Ohio Governor James Rhodes responded by calling on the National Guard to restore order.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4175/xxxxx4134.jpg

Under harassment from the demonstrators, the Guardsmen fired into the crowd, killing four and wounding 11. The Guardsmen were later brought to trial for the shootings, but found not guilty.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2220/xxxxx770pxmapofshooting.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7108/xxxxxxindex73723.jpg

President Nixon issued a statement deploring the Kent State deaths, but said that the incident should serve as a reminder that, "When dissent turns to violence it invites tragedy."

The shooting sparked hundreds of protests and college shutdowns, as well as a march on Washington, D.C., by 100,000 people. The National Student Association and former Vietnam Moratorium Committee leaders called for a national university strike of indefinite duration, beginning immediately, to protest the war.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1154/xxxxxkentstudent.jpg

At least 100 colleges and universities pledged to strike. The presidents of 37 universities signed a letter urging President Nixon to show more clearly his determination to end the war.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2623/insane7zo.jpg

[King Crimson]

in addition to a great political prognosticator who is wrong pretty much every time ("Obama can't win times a hundred posts), Homey been a big love member of the baby boomer nostalgia society.

the "we" generation. the generation who ****ed up banking, the stock exchange, the best nation on earth.....compromised all the best **** we stood for, and still brag on it based on what their dads did....and upscale car commercials. doled out hateful names like gen x, gen y to prove your fake bull****.

let me see you smile again Dear Prudence.

[TUSooner]

At the time, that engendered at lot of firey rhetoric and righteous anger, mainly from the anti-war left, but also from the right, defending the Guard and Law and Order. (I shudder to think what the SO would have done with it today.) Now, it's just a very sad thing to remember, especially seeing the faces of the young victims and knowing that people at that age generally have more heart and passion than brains and wisdom. Silly kids, dead for nothing, shot by other kids.

[King Crimson]

at the risk of having to read this circle jerk that used to be an interesting board more than once today.....

Homey is a total honk for 1. anything related to the American military understood as a total theory of History....2. "We" were right to **** the Indians since they signed legal contracts and 3. incorrect political right-wing prognostications....that are proven to be incorrect...as in "Obama can't win" times more posts than you and me have started combined.

anything other than those two categories I might respond too. If you are one of Homey's spek crew, i pity you.

[TUSooner]

in addition to a great political prognosticator who is wrong pretty much every time ("Obama can't win times a hundred posts), Homey been a big love member of the baby boomer nostalgia society.

the "we" generation. the generation who ****ed up banking, the stock exchange, the best nation on earth.....compromised all the best **** we stood for, and still brag on it based on what their dads did....and upscale car commercials. doled out hateful names like gen x, gen y to prove your fake bull****.

let me see you smile again Dear Prudence.

Wow. That's rather bitter.
I don't know what you've got against Homey, but I certainly agree that the Boomers, of which I am among the younger ones, generally fumbled the ball in the name of who knows what. The "60s generation", tainted largely by leftist propaganda, supposedly wanted to reject the hypocrisy and phoniness of the post-WWII "Establishment"; but they rejected so much more and ended up with the cynical attitude, still prevalent today, that nothing is sacred. Yet people who hold nothing sacred still have the nerve to complain that there's no meaning to life. :rolleyes:

[King Crimson]

if you want to call it bitter, that's fine. i don't cut and paste "history" either.

i just think it's kind of a fake job of "history" that's being put up in this place.

TU, you are a pretty smart guy, i honestly don't think that cut and paste america wins the war every time "history" is all that hot. by necessity.

i'm a native american (like many Oklahomans) who has been on this board for a long time, i think Homey's rah rah white man history is a little bull****.

[King Crimson]

and my point is that Homey in today's world, judged on his posts, is much closer to the National Guard than Neill Young.

that's fine. that's fine, i just don't want to see posts to the opposite.

[Crucifax Autumn]

"It's still hard to believe I had to write this song. It's ironic that I capitalized on the death of these American students. Probably the most important lesson ever learned at an American place of learning.
David Crosby cried after this take."

Neil Young - from liner notes of the Decade album

Crazy time.

[SoonerJack]

Wonder what would have happened if the protestors didn't set the ROTC building on fire?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Who knows? As high as the tension was at the time perhaps the same thing. Of course maybe not, but we'll never know.

[King Crimson]

bottom line: if Neil comes out with this song in 2002, Homey is against it. Clear Channel stopped playing War Pigs after the Afghan invasion. that's how we do in the land of the Free. the conclusion of people being dead has nothing to do with free speech in Triumphal Days of early Iraq 2 and Afghanistan.....where our people die.

Free Markets.

[MrJimBeam]

Ohio National Guardsmen sure were lousy shots.

[yankee]

white power?

[Jello Biafra]

i'm a native american (like many Oklahomans) who has been on this board for a long time, i think Homey's rah rah white man history is a little bull****.

fill us in there white cloud...haven't heard you tell of how the tutanka used to roam free lately.

its simple. contribute or ignore. don't bust someones bean bag for doing something nice for others to enjoy. its not like he has an agenda to keep the fighting whiteys on top.

[Okla-homey]

in addition to a great political prognosticator who is wrong pretty much every time ("Obama can't win times a hundred posts), Homey been a big love member of the baby boomer nostalgia society.

the "we" generation. the generation who ****ed up banking, the stock exchange, the best nation on earth.....compromised all the best **** we stood for, and still brag on it based on what their dads did....and upscale car commercials. doled out hateful names like gen x, gen y to prove your fake bull****.

let me see you smile again Dear Prudence.

Professor,

I am not wrong as to politcal prognostication "most of the time" as you state. You are only allowed to to count my multiple claims BHO couldn't win as one (1) boofed call.;)

Other than that, my record is quite reliable. You may recall I predicted Palin would be McCain's running mate before it happened.

Let's wait and see if I'm wrong about the Elephants picking up eight Senate seats and 35 House seats this fall before you doom me to political prognostication irrelevance.

Also, FWIW, I am no uber-glorifier of the Baby Boom generation from which I hail. Donk Baby Boomers did a lot of stupid stuff. Especially electing JEC and WJC, and working to ensure Fannie and Freddie had to guarantee home loans to people who had no business buying houses from which the derivative-based fiasco sprang. You are forgetting Baby Boomers won the Cold War, kept the oil flowing from a troubled region of the world, and ended polio. So there.

And precisely when did I ever post "the Indians had it coming," or anything remotely like that?

[C&CDean]

at the risk of having to read this circle jerk that used to be an interesting board more than once today.....

Homey is a total honk for 1. anything related to the American military understood as a total theory of History....2. "We" were right to **** the Indians since they signed legal contracts and 3. incorrect political right-wing prognostications....that are proven to be incorrect...as in "Obama can't win" times more posts than you and me have started combined.

anything other than those two categories I might respond too. If you are one of Homey's spek crew, i pity you.

Just curious. What subject/s to you teach to the hippies up in Boulder?

Another thing. If this board is that ****ed up, why not contribute to make it better? Or leave. Slamming Homey for doing something that most folks find informational and/or entertaining is bad form and reeks of academic elitism and a hard-on for another poster.

Why don't you start a daily history thread if Homey's suck so bad?

[King Crimson]

pretty simple observation tells you the C and C/Homey time crowd likes social and political protest and is all about the Bill of Rights when it is about something they support. When it was against the G-8 or NAFTA inna day...the board was full of hahahahs about those people who need to get a job. one time, big time civil rights....the other time...anti-americansim in an age of patriots.

if you can't see that's a double standard. well.

[olevetonahill]

WTF ?:confused:

[King Crimson]

Professor,

I am not wrong as to politcal prognostication "most of the time" as you state. You are only allowed to to count my multiple claims BHO couldn't win as one (1) boofed call.;)

Other than that, my record is quite reliable. You may recall I predicted Palin would be McCain's running mate before it happened.

Let's wait and see if I'm wrong about the Elephants picking up eight Senate seats and 35 House seats this fall before you doom me to political prognostication irrelevance.

Also, FWIW, I am no uber-glorifier of the Baby Boom generation from which I hail. Donk Baby Boomers did a lot of stupid stuff. Especially electing JEC and WJC, and working to ensure Fannie and Freddie had to guarantee home loans to people who had no business buying houses from which the derivative-based fiasco sprang. You are forgetting Baby Boomers won the Cold War, kept the oil flowing from a troubled region of the world, and ended polio. So there.

And precisely when did I ever post "the Indians had it coming," or anything remotely like that?

i predicted Palin would be the running mate, too. big deal. you've posted many times that Indians were legal subjects and were therefore abided by US law in your histories. perpetuating the "savages" idea.

kept oil flowing, hooray for the baby boomers for creating false economy that they maintained with BS foreign wars that violated other nation's sovereignty.

the Saud family, you win. oh yeah.

if you want to insult me with the "professor" epithet, how about you....always yanking your own chain with the Tulsa U. thing. seems, too, you want to partake of the diminishing social capital of the educational elite.

double standards are pretty ugly.

[olevetonahill]

Hey King.
Can I have some of what yer drankin ?:D

[King Crimson]

Hey King.
Can I have some of what yer drankin ?:D

if you can drive 900 miles in the next 4-5 hours, i got some Bulleit Bourbon....and i get medical marijauna too. since i'm a hippy in Boulder.

[olevetonahill]

if you can drive 900 miles in the next 4-5 hours, i got some Bulleit Bourbon....and i get medical marijauna too. since i'm a hippy in Boulder.

Dayum , My Jets outa fuel
Can i have a rain check ?:D

[King Crimson]

Dayum , My Jets outa fuel
Can i have a rain check ?:D

invite is open, yo. i can cancel a few days of stealing tax payer money to teach anti-americanism. i only work like 3 hours a week, corrupting the minds of the young.

[olevetonahill]

invite is open, yo. i can cancel a few days of stealing tax payer money to teach anti-americanism. i only work like 3 hours a week, corrupting the minds of the young.

At least ya Honest about yer thievin :D

[King Crimson]

At least ya Honest about yer thievin :D

pretty much. you'd kill yourself right away if you had to read 50 undergrad papers. it's like's Dante's Inferno......horrible BS.

aren't you livin' off tax payer money yourself?

[olevetonahill]

Dayum Skippy

An I dint do a dayum thing to earn it neither :D

[King Crimson]

Dayum Skippy

An I dint do a dayum thing to earn it neither :D

no doubt. but still, i could have gone to pretty much law school i wanted...but i wanted to educate the hippies on how to rock the Dead and Phish pretty much. and that took a PhD. because that is some smart intellectual snobbery according to my critics here at SF.com who can't handle a little political disagreement.

i should just leave. or contribute. i hate the Dead and Phish. i didn't vote for Obama. I always vote 3rd party.

[Harry Beanbag]

Hmmmm....bourbon.

[Jello Biafra]

no doubt. but still, i could have gone to pretty much law school i wanted...but i wanted to educate the hippies on how to rock the Dead and Phish pretty much. and that took a PhD. because that is some smart intellectual snobbery according to my critics here at SF.com who can't handle a little political disagreement.

i should just leave. or contribute. i hate the Dead and Phish. i didn't vote for Obama. I always vote 3rd party.

i dont think anyone said any of all this bulllshiite. I'm just sayin come up with something for us to read or shaddup you elitist prick ;)

seriously, history is me favorite...you got something, im reading it. apprently, you are busy smoking so much grass so as to kill the pain of reading community college papers...

[King Crimson]

i'd like to point that our favorite historian tells us in his avatar that we admit nothing, deny everything. that sounds like an open commitment to history to me.

[C&CDean]

no doubt. but still, i could have gone to pretty much law school i wanted...but i wanted to educate the hippies on how to rock the Dead and Phish pretty much. and that took a PhD. because that is some smart intellectual snobbery according to my critics here at SF.com who can't handle a little political disagreement.

i should just leave. or contribute. i hate the Dead and Phish. i didn't vote for Obama. I always vote 3rd party.

Judas H. Priest whining like a bitchy little mcbitcherstein. Somebody slap your momma? **** on your bicycle seat? Put ben-gay in your thong?

It's pretty much looking to me like you're the one who can't handle a little "political disagreement." You think you're all righteous to be all grooved-out to the BOR and all it's amendments in their entirety; and all us dumbassed rednecks only care about #2 and the fact some other old-time hippies let the wimmins and the slaves vote and ****.

Meh.

You see, I really don't care all that much about the specifics of the whole BOR - except the portions I have an interest in. Call me narrow-minded or selfish and that's a-OK. I want my guns. I want **** left alone up at the capital building. I want gays to hose whoever they want, just quit trying to make me accept it. I hate abortion and believe it's wrong. It's my view, and it's just as valid as yours. Irregardless of how many letters you have after your name. And if you're too thin-skinned to take a little jab (cause you damn sure know how to dish it out) then go **** up a rope.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Homey, did you **** in the kings post toasties again?

[King Crimson]

whining like a little bitch....that sounds familiar from you CCD. you recycle it into familiar territory. show me where i advocate taking your guns away. samo samo.

[C&CDean]

No, I think somebody scratched his Rockin' the Casbah vinyl...

[C&CDean]

whining like a little bitch....that sounds familiar from you CCD.

oh snap!:cry:

[Jello Biafra]

whining like a little bitch....that sounds familiar from you CCD. you recycle it into familiar territory. show me where i advocate taking your guns away. samo samo.

its kinda funny that you are busting everyones rocks about "white man history" etc and you pick a reference to an art fag band as your location. for the record, im not saying hes a pole smoker, im saying he's been known to tear the skin off of some shaft. kinda lets us know which side of the fence you are standing on.

[C&CDean]

whining like a little bitch....that sounds familiar from you CCD. you recycle it into familiar territory. show me where i advocate taking your guns away. samo samo.

Dude, you are on the drugs/likker today huh? I've never said you advocate taking my guns away. Ever. Nothing even close to that. I said that's the amendment to the BOR I give a **** about. You think I should care or be as passionate about all of them. I ain't. So ****ing sue me. Jeez, take another hit.

[BillyBall]

an art fag band as your location.

So that's how you would describe R.E.M. Pathetic at best.

[Jello Biafra]

So that's how you would describe R.E.M. Pathetic at best.

i guess i would call them art fags...*shrugs shoulders*

im just saying he loves him some fruit salad

[Okla-homey]

you've posted many times that Indians were legal subjects and were therefore abided by US law in your histories. perpetuating the "savages" idea.



You really have no idea what you're ranting about.

When was the last time you represented a tribe's interests or defended its sovereign rights in the only forum that really matters nowadays; Federal or state court?

In the meantime, maybe you and that ersatz "indian" CU fired can smoke some peyote and publish some inane and irrelevant anti-whitey drivel.

[King Crimson]

You really have no idea what you're ranting about.

When was the last time you represented a tribe's interests or defended its sovereign rights in the only forum that really matters nowadays; Federal or state court?

In the meantime, maybe you and that ersatz "indian" CU fired can smoke some peyote and publish some inane and irrelevant anti-whitey drivel.

right, because that's the same thing by association. me and Ward Churchill, because we live in the same zip code. great argument you make...and shows the same old shoddy argumentation the right makes about anything. it couldn't be less persuasive on your part. maybe you should go back to reading Newsmax.com for your truths.

fact is: you predicted time after time that Obama couldn't win. no way. you posted poll numbers, whatever. and you were WRONG. I didn't vote for Obama, you got no ad hominem argument there......which is troublesome....but you are wrong about a lot of stuff. that's the risk you take when you post it, and being called seems to make you whine or what is more convenient "forget" about it.

i admire your resilience in the face of the reality that all of the world isn't Tulsa, Oklahoma.....but you were wrong. and pretty much wrong all the time. and your politics make your so-called history. i respect like have no idea your appreciation of the people who made our state (because like it or not i'm part of that too, my gg parent made the land run)....pimping the OK Historical Society on this board......but, c'mon?

at some point, heroic tales of WW II and the Union army occludes a lot of American history. and forget the easy PC dismissal, it's not about that.

[olevetonahill]

http://babyboomeradvisorclub.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/bnybigbunny_img.jpg

[AlbqSooner]

King Crimson, if I recall correctly Homey has seen a lot more of the world than Tulsa. I am somewhat perplexed at your sudden lashing out at his history posts. It takes a great deal of time and effort to put those together on a daily basis and I, among others, appreciate that the has taken it upon himself to post those.

As far as your objections to "cut and paste" history. What he cuts and pastes is, by and large, what was written and recorded contemporaneously with the event upon which he reports. If you want to re-write history or cut and paste another contemporaneous account, it would be a time consuming task, but I can assure you I would read it. That would be so much more productive than lashing out at someone who expends the energy in an effort to make the lives of others better, more informed, perhaps more thoughtful.

As far as my generation (I was in college at the time of Kent State), screwing up the world, you paint with a very broad brush. There were many of my classmates in college who supported the Viet Nam war. There were many of my classmates who fought in the Viet Nam war. There were many of my classmates who, because they died in the Viet Nam war cannot be blamed for the condition of today's world. Of those who survived, many have been quite productive in their lives - even by your definition of productivity.

You don't want Homey to deem you guilty by association because you share a zip code and a claim to Native blood with the faux Indian who pizzed off your current employer? Then why is it any more appropriate for you to blame me for the condition of this world simply because I share a birth year with some whom you deem conterproductive?

I suggest that it is just as legitimate for those of my generation, should we choose to paint with the broad brush of generalization, to say that the current condition of the world is in SPITE of our best efforts, NOT because of them.

Get off your high friggin horse!!

[King Crimson]

interesting post, ABQ. maybe some good points. but "get get off the friggin high horse"....is what you got?

same old hate me because i have an advanced degree. it's a curious thing about americans....Thomas Payne wrote "Common Sense"...i'd be real interested how many peeps who use that phrase to discredit pretty much everything.....have actually read Payne.

oh wait, actually reading something would that academic snobbery or whatever.

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/

[Okla-homey]

right, because that's the same thing by association. me and Ward Churchill, because we live in the same zip code. great argument you make...and shows the same old shoddy argumentation the right makes about anything. it couldn't be less persuasive on your part. maybe you should go back to reading Newsmax.com for your truths.

fact is: you predicted time after time that Obama couldn't win. no way. you posted poll numbers, whatever. and you were WRONG. I didn't vote for Obama, you got no ad hominem argument there......which is troublesome....but you are wrong about a lot of stuff. that's the risk you take when you post it, and being called seems to make you whine or what is more convenient "forget" about it.

i admire your resilience in the face of the reality that all of the world isn't Tulsa, Oklahoma.....but you were wrong. and pretty much wrong all the time. and your politics make your so-called history. i respect like have no idea your appreciation of the people who made our state (because like it or not i'm part of that too, my gg parent made the land run)....pimping the OK Historical Society on this board......but, c'mon?

at some point, heroic tales of WW II and the Union army occludes a lot of American history. and forget the easy PC dismissal, it's not about that.

For the record, I moved to Tulsa in 2005. I have resided on both US coasts and a lot of places in between. I have seen an awful lot of the planet, and too often, to my dismay, the places people like you don't pay vacation dollars to visit. You can call me wrong all you want. It's your right. But don't make stuff up. That's demeaning and intellectually dishonest. Next time, just point on what is factually inaccurate in a given post. Or don't. IDGAS.

So far, we have the fact I incorrectly posited the results of the 2006 presidential election. You are correct. I did. But the Republic will survive BHO. And it will correct. It always has. BTW, is there anything factually inaccurate in the above little missive on Kent State?

Until you've been out in the world, and seen the things I wish with all my soul I had not seen, quite frankly, to me you're just another career academic taking refuge on a campus because the real world is too scary. I'm out.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7-m919ynU

[MR2-Sooner86]

(insert rant here)

Seriously, who pissed in your toasty oats this morning?

[tommieharris91]

So far, we have the fact I incorrectly posited the results of the 2006 presidential election.

We elected a POTUS in 06? ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

We elected a POTUS in 06? ;)


Crap, Homey's wrong again. :)

[SanJoaquinSooner]

We elected a POTUS in 06? ;)

I wish. Hillary would have won that one.

[Frozen Sooner]

Without commenting on anything else in the thread, I guess Nick Saban was a freshman at Kent State that day and planned to be at the protest but got sidetracked. He was talking about it on the Birmingham news today.

[JohnnyMack]

Without commenting on anything else in the thread, I guess Nick Saban was a freshman at Kent State that day and planned to be at the protest but got sidetracked. He was talking about it on the Birmingham news today.

Yeah I heard he was on the phone with Miami of Ohio talking about transferring there.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yeah I heard he was on the phone with Miami of Ohio talking about transferring there.

Now that's just silly.

Miami of Ohio doesn't have nearly enough money.

[Condescending Sooner]

I bet King Crimson is about 1/64th indian just like me and a lot of people in Oklahoma. But unlike most, he wears it on his sleeve and uses it as an excuse to whine like a 3 year old.

[SoonerBorn68]

I got asked if I had an Indian tax exempt card up here in North Dakota today whilst purchasing groceries.

I didn't have one. :(

It looks like the spring has finally snapped in King Crimson's brain. On a scale of 1 to 10 what was the epicness of the meltdown?

However, it has been an interesting observation to see the differences in the way the races live up here in North Dakota. In OK, we all live in the same neighborhoods, go to the same schools, etc, etc. What I've seen up here it's pretty much segregated. Not a whole lot of interaction.

[SicEmBaylor]

This thread is full of win.

[achiro]

http://matt.west.co.tt/images/jump_the_shark.gif

[OU_Sooners75]

Seems to me someone has a corn cob stuck up their butt in this thread.

[C&CDean]

I wonder if our boy is still sleeping off his hangover?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I love you whiteys...

[Breadburner]

I think someone went to a meeting......

[OU4LIFE]

I got asked if I had an Indian tax exempt card up here in North Dakota today whilst purchasing groceries.

I didn't have one. :(

It looks like the spring has finally snapped in King Crimson's brain. On a scale of 1 to 10 what was the epicness of the meltdown?

However, it has been an interesting observation to see the differences in the way the races live up here in North Dakota. In OK, we all live in the same neighborhoods, go to the same schools, etc, etc. What I've seen up here it's pretty much segregated. Not a whole lot of interaction.

7