Look at what this Immigration Bill is doing

[ouleaf]

To expose yourself as someone that is anti-immigration/almost racist over such a trivial matter is ridiculous. Is this really that big of a deal in Alabama that it is an issue on somebody's platform?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831



Amid a national debate over Arizona's tough new immigration law, Republican Alabama gubernatorial candidate Tim James (and son of previous Gov. Fob James) vows in a new campaign ad that if he's elected, he'll give the state driver's license exam only in English, as a cost-saving measure.

"This is Alabama; we speak English," he says in the ad. "If you want to live here, learn it."

It's not clear how James thinks the change would save the state money. Marc Ambinder of the Atlantic says Alabama could actually lose billions of dollars in federal funding if it enacts the measure, and he points to an Alabama political blog that runs down the legal history for why the exams are in multiple languages.

James says he's been attacked by the left for the ad, singling out MSNBC host Rachel Maddow. A writer on her blog called the ad "just plain mean" and argued it was simply pandering to the candidate's conservative base.

"I have come under attack and under assault by a very interesting group of far-left reporters," he said Monday, according to the Birmingham News. He said English exams are a public safety issue, to ensure drivers can read signs. Exams are currently given in Arabic, Chinese, English, Farsi, French, German, Greek, Japanese, Korean, Russian, Spanish, Thai and Vietnamese, according to AOL News

[Leroy Lizard]

To expose yourself as someone that is anti-immigration/almost racist over such a trivial matter is ridiculous. Is this really that big of a deal in Alabama that it is an issue on somebody's platform?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831

To be honest, I wouldn't legally immigrate to a country unless I knew enough of its language to pass a driver's license test. Seriously, is that too much to ask of an immigrant?

[Frozen Sooner]

He said English exams are a public safety issue, to ensure drivers can read signs.

I wonder if he knows why stop signs and the like are in uniform shapes?

Anyhow, he's the subject of much ridicule among the Republicans I know. Bill Byrne should walk away with the Republican nomination (and the governorship.)

[Frozen Sooner]

This seems like something of a stretch to connect this to AZ SB 1070, though. Tim James is his own brand of hilarity.

Also, since Alabama is a Choctaw word, I wonder if we'll have to change that. I could kind of go for living in a town named "Black Warrior."

[Leroy Lizard]

I wonder if he knows why stop signs and the like are in uniform shapes?

You mean like this one in Japan?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Tomare.PNG/120px-Tomare.PNG

A lot of municipalities are leaning toward digital signs for obvious reasons. The trouble is that they cannot change shape.

Now what? Are we going to be straddled with stone-age technology forever because some people refuse to learn even the most basic English?

[Frozen Sooner]

Communities are leaning towards digital stop signs? Yield signs? Really?
Psst. I believe what you just posted was a "yield" sign.
Ah. I see. Japan is a non-signatory to the treaty on signage convention.

[Leroy Lizard]

Communities are leaning towards digital stop signs? Yield signs? Really?
Psst. I believe what you just posted was a "yield" sign.
Ah. I see. Japan is a non-signatory to the treaty on signage convention.

Oh, gee. I guess your stop sign isn't so uniform after all. And I would expect that most Japanese that emigrate to the U.S. learn a little English before applying for a driver's license.

[NormanPride]

They didn't sign to sign their signs right?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

To expose yourself as someone that is anti-immigration/almost racist over such a trivial matter is ridiculous. Is this really that big of a deal in Alabama that it is an issue on somebody's platform?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20100428/ts_ynews/ynews_ts1831Thnx for swelling the leftist ranks of Soonerfans. Yer knee-jerk brethren needed some company.

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh, gee. I guess your stop sign isn't so uniform after all. And I would expect that most Japanese that emigrate to the U.S. learn a little English before applying for a driver's license.

Oh gee, I guess you need to read English to recognize a red octagon.

The argument "They need to be able to read stop signs" argument is ****ing ridiculous and you know it. We don't bar illiterates from holding driver licenses, do we?

[Leroy Lizard]

Oh gee, I guess you need to read English to recognize a red octagon.

The argument "They need to be able to read stop signs" argument is ****ing ridiculous and you know it. We don't bar illiterates from holding driver licenses, do we?

By the same token, should the DMV be expected to read out loud all documents related to obtaining a license because a person never bothered to learn to read?

They already may. But should they?

How much are we expected to kowtow to those that have never bothered to learn to read English? If you immigrate to another country, is there any level of responsibility to learning to communicate in that country? Any at all? Or, is it up to the country to spend the money to accommodate your unwillingness to assimilate?

[delhalew]

You are supposed to read English to be a truck driver, but surprise, there are drivers out there that stand at a fuel counter trying to communicate until everyone involved gets frustrated and gives up. It's not safe. There are a lot of important things to read out there, in addition to all those with cute shapes.

[StoopTroup]

Oh gee, I guess you need to read English to recognize a red octagon.

The argument "They need to be able to read stop signs" argument is ****ing ridiculous and you know it. We don't bar illiterates from holding driver licenses, do we?

Phil even lets him post here. :D

[StoopTroup]

I like it when they think 100's are less than 20's

[SCOUT]

Oh gee, I guess you need to read English to recognize a red octagon.

The argument "They need to be able to read stop signs" argument is ****ing ridiculous and you know it. We don't bar illiterates from holding driver licenses, do we?

Another question is, should we? There are a myriad of written instructions that drivers should read. If they are incapable, they become a menace to the other drivers.

Of course, this will not solve the seemingly ever present problem of mistakenly advancing in the turn only lane when intending to go straight. We should tackle that problem later.

To respond to a much earlier post, the cost savings comes from not having to print all of the materials in various languages.

[ouleaf]

What surprised me most wasn't the issue James was discussing involving changes to a driving test, or whether you need to be able to read english to have a drivers license, it was the fact that he flat out said, if you want to live in Alabama you have to speak English. That is what really had me laughing at him. What an ***.

[yankee]

Oh gee, I guess you need to read English to recognize a red octagon.



maybe not, but last time i checked there's a lot more signs than just a stop sign.

what about the sign on the freeway that indicates a left exit?
what about the flashing mobile construction thing that tells you how far up construction is or how traffic is slow up ahead?
what about parking only for emergency vehicles?


the list goes on and on...

[Harry Beanbag]

maybe not, but last time i checked there's a lot more signs than just a stop sign.

what about the sign on the freeway that indicates a left exit?
what about the flashing mobile construction thing that tells you how far up construction is or how traffic is slow up ahead?
what about parking only for emergency vehicles?


the list goes on and on...

Do we have signs that say you are now crossing the United States border? Cuz those obviously are very difficult for some people to read and understand.

[yankee]

Do we have signs that say you are now crossing the United States border? Cuz those obviously are very difficult for some people to read and understand.

ha.

i think the border patrol needs to invest in red octagon signs, since those are apparently pretty easy to understand.

[Frozen Sooner]

maybe not, but last time i checked there's a lot more signs than just a stop sign.

what about the sign on the freeway that indicates a left exit?
what about the flashing mobile construction thing that tells you how far up construction is or how traffic is slow up ahead?
what about parking only for emergency vehicles?


the list goes on and on...

And what about the fact that every "publish the test in English only" bill allows an exemption for reading it aloud to illiterates?

Sorry, but you're never going to be able to convince me the actual purpose of these bills is traffic safety "because they need to be able to read the signs" until you get rid of those exemptions.

And really, how much English do you need to read the signs you have up there? Do you really think that reading a question on a drivers exam doesn't take a different level of fluency than recognizing an exit sign?

[Frozen Sooner]

By the way, this is also amusing because the Governor of Alabama doesn't have the ability to only give the driver's exam in English without giving up a crapload of federal money. So says the 11th Circuit in Alexander v. Sondoval. So I'm not sure how much money he thinks he's going to save by doing this, particularly in light of the millions of dollars in lititgation costs the state will incur only to have it struck down.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

To be honest, I wouldn't legally immigrate to a country unless I knew enough of its language to pass a driver's license test. Seriously, is that too much to ask of an immigrant?

No.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Oh gee, I guess you need to read English to recognize a red octagon.

The argument "They need to be able to read stop signs" argument is ****ing ridiculous and you know it. We don't bar illiterates from holding driver licenses, do we?

So would you know what to do if you saw ALTO, 中止, Einde, Anschlag, Arrêt, Arresto, or Cтоп ??

[Frozen Sooner]

So would you know what to do if you saw ALTO, 中止, Einde, Anschlag, Arrêt, Arresto, or Cтоп ??

If they were in a red octagon? Yes.

Or if I had taken a drivers exam in that country with a test showing the standard shapes of that country's stop signs? Yes.

Man, I wonder how illiterates in this country can ever manage to drive without crashing constantly. How would they ever figure out what "STOP" means?

[Turd_Ferguson]

If they were in a red octagon? Yes.

Or if I had taken a drivers exam in that country with a test showing the standard shapes of that country's stop signs? Yes.

Man, I wonder how illiterates in this country can ever manage to drive without crashing constantly. How would they ever figure out what "STOP" means?How does an illiterate take a driving test?

[Frozen Sooner]

How does an illiterate take a driving test?

They have it read aloud.

[Okla-homey]

This seems like something of a stretch to connect this to AZ SB 1070, though. Tim James is his own brand of hilarity.

Also, since Alabama is a Choctaw word, I wonder if we'll have to change that. I could kind of go for living in a town named "Black Warrior."

I beg to differ sir. "Alabama" is a Muscogee (Creek) word.

Just saying.

FWIW, Tallassee, Alabama, east of Montgomery is also a Creek name. "Tulsa" is an anglicized corruption of "Tallassee."

[Turd_Ferguson]

I beg to differ sir. "Tulsa" is an anglicized corruption."Werd.:D

[Frozen Sooner]

I beg to differ sir. "Alabama" is a Muscogee (Creek) word.

Just saying.

FWIW, Tallassee, Alabama, east of Montgomery is also a Creek name. "Tulsa" is an anglicized corruption of "Tallassee."

Ah. My fault. I asked someone from around these parts and that's what they said.

[delhalew]

If they were in a red octagon? Yes.

Or if I had taken a drivers exam in that country with a test showing the standard shapes of that country's stop signs? Yes.

Man, I wonder how illiterates in this country can ever manage to drive without crashing constantly. How would they ever figure out what "STOP" means?

This is just dumb. What about a left ot right exit. What about a lane endind due to endless construction in this country. If a stop sign was all you had to know, my job would be much easier. Hell most drivers thast CAN read the language can't understand the concept of "merge".
Our highways are dangerous enough without drivers incapable of understanding posted signage.

[Harry Beanbag]

Whether these people can read street signs or not, they don't have auto insurance or driver's licenses so they shouldn't be driving anyway. Oh, not to mention they shouldn't even be here in the first place.

[OUMallen]

Some legal immigrants only speak Spanish. That's not unlawful.

These bills are only spiteful and pathetic.

[Frozen Sooner]

This is just dumb. What about a left ot right exit. What about a lane endind due to endless construction in this country. If a stop sign was all you had to know, my job would be much easier. Hell most drivers thast CAN read the language can't understand the concept of "merge".
Our highways are dangerous enough without drivers incapable of understanding posted signage.

Yes, everything after "this is just dumb" is, in fact, dumb.

You need to speak English to understand an arrow pointing left with the name of the street you want to get to?

Are yield signs in this country all the same shape?

Again, ILLITERATES are always exempted from these bills. THEY manage to figure out exit signs just fine.

[Frozen Sooner]

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/images/fig-2e-03.gif

Man, I don't know how I'd EVER understand this sign meant "exit left for Trenton" if I didn't speak English.

[Frozen Sooner]

http://plus.freeshell.org/roads/tn/bgs_briley-3b.jpg

Holy ****! Some crazy Mexican is going to just flip a donut in the road because he can't read the sign!

[Harry Beanbag]

Some legal immigrants only speak Spanish. That's not unlawful.

These bills are only spiteful and pathetic.




English

A firm understanding of English is required along with the ability to read, write, and speak the language. Applicants over the age of 65 who have resided in the U.S. for 20 years may be exempt from this requirement. Those with mental disabilities are also exempt.


http://www.ehow.com/list_6383534_legal-immigration-requirements.html

[Turd_Ferguson]

An applicant must have good moral standing with the community to become a citizen. This means the applicant cannot have committed a crime within the statutory period of five years (three years for those marrying an American citizen)So, if they came across illegally, they just wait 3 yrs, get hitched, and it's all good.

However,


and drunkennessThis could be a problem for a lot of them...:D

[Harry Beanbag]

Can you get drunk from Bud Light?

[delhalew]

http://plus.freeshell.org/roads/tn/bgs_briley-3b.jpg

Holy ****! Some crazy Mexican is going to just flip a donut in the road because he can't read the sign!

You don't drive much, do you?

[Okla-homey]

Ah. My fault. I asked someone from around these parts and that's what they said.

Tuscaloosa is a Creek word too. As is Okemah, Waurika, Eufaula, Okmulgee, Checotah, Sapulpa...all of which are bammer and Okie towns.

Choctaws BTW, are mostly from what is now Mississippi, eastern Arkie and southern Louisiana.

[ouleaf]

http://www.ehow.com/list_6383534_legal-immigration-requirements.html



Quote:
English

A firm understanding of English is required along with the ability to read, write, and speak the language. Applicants over the age of 65 who have resided in the U.S. for 20 years may be exempt from this requirement. Those with mental disabilities are also exempt.



This only pertains if they are applying for actual citizenship, and not to legal immigrants with Green Cards.

[Turd_Ferguson]

This only pertains if they are applying for actual citizenship, and not to legal immigrants with Green Cards.so what's your point?

[TopDawg]

it was the fact that he flat out said, if you want to live in Alabama you have to speak English. That is what really had me laughing at him.

Do you find it funny because people in Alabama don't speak English themselves?

Hey Bamans, "Roll Tide" is only two syllables.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Do you find it funny because people in Alabama don't speak English themselves?

Hey Bamans, "Roll Tide" is only two syllables.I've been to Bama many of times and never had a problem understanding them.:confused:

[TopDawg]

That post was more for Beano's Fourth Chin, may he rest in peace.

[TUSooner]

After several years on the SO, I'm starting to think that all forms of communication are a waste of time. :rolleyes:

[delhalew]

After several years on the SO, I'm starting to think that all forms of communication are a waste of time. :rolleyes:

My hope is you will take that belief to its logical conclusion and stop.

[Curly Bill]

LOL, that was funny. :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

I feel an urge to start 5 more threads about this new law.

[TUSooner]

My hope is you will take that belief to its logical conclusion and stop.

I'll go half-way and ignore you. How's that? :D

[delhalew]

I'll go half-way and ignore you. How's that? :D

Fair enough. :D

[Leroy Lizard]

If they were in a red octagon? Yes.

Or if I had taken a drivers exam in that country with a test showing the standard shapes of that country's stop signs? Yes.

Man, I wonder how illiterates in this country can ever manage to drive without crashing constantly. How would they ever figure out what "STOP" means?

You already demonstrated that you would have piled up your car in Tokyo. I posted a stop sign. You thought it meant yield. Whoops!

On my way back from San Diego, they had a high wind advisory: "High winds expected. Cars towing trailers not advised."

Would you be able to read that if it was printed in Finnish?

[bonkuba]

This crap is simple......learn the ****ing language you stupid ****s. Don't waste my tax dollars on 14 signs that say the same ****ing thing in different languages.

Learn English and stfu. See? Easy.......can't learn it? **** em.

[Frozen Sooner]

You already demonstrated that you would have piled up your car in Tokyo. I posted a stop sign. You thought it meant yield. Whoops!

On my way back from San Diego, they had a high wind advisory: "High winds expected. Cars towing trailers not advised."

Would you be able to read that if it was printed in Finnish?

And once again, if I were taking a driver's exam in English in Japan, and the test had the standard shape of a JAPANESE stop sign, I would have been able to recognize it. Why? Because I can recognize a basic ****ING SHAPE without having a word in the middle of it to tell me what it means. Apparently this is way beyond your skills. Perhaps repeating kindergarten is in order.

Frankly, I'm TOTALLY ****ING AMAZED that our troops who don't speak Japanese and are stationed in Japan don't cause multi-car pileups every day.

Tell me again how an illiterate can read that high winds sign?

Oh, right, you can't. You haven't answered that ****ing question yet.

[Frozen Sooner]

You don't drive much, do you?

Apparently enough that I don't have to stop and type out a book report on every sign I see. Somehow I manage to find my way home without destroying much property.

[Frozen Sooner]

This is just dumb. What about a left ot right exit.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/FSA/FSA651/highway-exit-sign_~x30370503.jpg

What about a lane endind due to endless construction in this country.

http://www.umbc.edu/oit/images/merge.jpg

**** me running, how would someone who isn't fluent enough in English to take a test EVER be able to understand such complex and dense prose as contained in these signs?

[delhalew]

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/FSA/FSA651/highway-exit-sign_~x30370503.jpg


http://www.umbc.edu/oit/images/merge.jpg

**** me running, how would someone who isn't fluent enough in English to take a test EVER be able to understand such complex and dense prose as contained in these signs?

You know that's not what I'm talking about smarty pants. You should anyway.

Most construction zones don't draw you ****ing picture. It says right lane ends or what the **** ever may be the case.

That adorable ****ing arrow is only AT the exit. Have you seen a ****ing dumbass cross 3 lanes of traffic at 70 miles an hour because they were not paying attention. This is the **** I'm talking about. ****!!!!!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Here's an idea, sign or not. If the lane you are in ENDS, then f*cking merge into the remaining lane. Seems to me that if you need a sign to tell you something that's right in front of your face, then you shouldn't be driving in any language.

[delhalew]

Here's an idea, sign or not. If the lane you are in ENDS, then f*cking merge into the remaining lane. Seems to me that if you need a sign to tell you something that's right in front of your face, then you shouldn't be driving in any language.

That's the crazy thing, MERGE. The most basic of highway principles. A large portion of society is completely unable to grasp merge. Guaranteed to make yourself a hood ornament on a Peterbilt.

[Leroy Lizard]

Tell me again how an illiterate can read that high winds sign?

Oh, right, you can't. You haven't answered that ****ing question yet.

I never state that illiterates should be able to drive. You just assumed it.

Now, answer my question: How can a person who cannot read English read the wind advisory sign?

[Leroy Lizard]

One more question: Is there anything wrong with asking everyone to prove legal residency in order to get a driver's license?

[Curly Bill]

One more question: Is there anything wrong with asking everyone to prove legal residency in order to get a driver's license?

It could hurt their feelers?

That's all I got.

[Crucifax Autumn]

See? That's the biggest shat I don't understand. Every time I go in to the DMV those as*holes bug the crap out of me because my social security card is faded and wrinkled, they give me shat about my birth certificate, etc. even though I speak English perfectly, have multiple forms of ID, and so on, but some jerkoff who has next to no ID, nos SS card, and has a birth certificate from mexico can breeze right through?????? WTF????

[Frozen Sooner]

I never state that illiterates should be able to drive. You just assumed it.

Now, answer my question: How can a person who cannot read English read the wind advisory sign?

Oh, sorry, I just assumed it because every time one of these dumbass bills gets introduced they exempt illiterates. Specifically, Alabama's current driver's exam allows illiterates who speak English to have the test read aloud. Tim James doesn't seem to bring that up in his defenses of his idiocy when he says that it's a traffic safety issue.

Someone with a total lack of knowledge of written English probably can't read the sign. BFD. Do you think that someone who is unable to take a driver's exam in English is necessarily so incompetent that they can't read a short sign? If such signs are so important to traffic safety that they're required to avoid massive danger, how did we manage throughout the 70s and 80s without them?

Do you think that forbidding anyone who's here on a travel visa should be prohibited from driving?

If you visit another country and you don't read the language, should you be forbidden from driving?

If you take a driver's exam in Japanese, and the exam has a bunch of questions asking you to recognize common traffic signs by shape and you get those questions right, does that mean you suddenly lose your ability to recognize shapes and you'll just run right through a stop sign?

[Frozen Sooner]

You know that's not what I'm talking about smarty pants. You should anyway.

Most construction zones don't draw you ****ing picture. It says right lane ends or what the **** ever may be the case.

That adorable ****ing arrow is only AT the exit. Have you seen a ****ing dumbass cross 3 lanes of traffic at 70 miles an hour because they were not paying attention. This is the **** I'm talking about. ****!!!!!

Yes, I've seen plenty of people who can read English do exactly that. Thank you for proving my point-the ability to read English fluently does not confer the ability to drive safely.

[yermom]

One more question: Is there anything wrong with asking everyone to prove legal residency in order to get a driver's license?

how does it work now?

i'd love to get a new license every so often :D

[Frozen Sooner]

One more question: Is there anything wrong with asking everyone to prove legal residency in order to get a driver's license?

Nope. Just some states have figured out that if the issue is keeping the roads safe and if they're here anyhow, you might as well make sure they're competent to drive. Which is fine as well. Depends on how you weigh each factor, but I don't think it's ridiculous at all to require someone to show proof that they're here legally to get a driver license. Talk to the libertarians about that one-they're the ones against RealID.

[bluedogok]

One more question: Is there anything wrong with asking everyone to prove legal residency in order to get a driver's license?
I think in some states it is a requirement, I seem to remember Texas passing something in recent years that the expiration date on the drivers license of legal immigrants is tied to the expiration date on their immigration paperwork. I think Arizona has something similar.

[stoopified]

ha.

i think the border patrol needs to invest in red octagon signs, since those are apparently pretty easy to understand....and obey. :D

[Okla-homey]

Nope. Just some states have figured out that if the issue is keeping the roads safe and if they're here anyhow, you might as well make sure they're competent to drive. Which is fine as well. Depends on how you weigh each factor, but I don't think it's ridiculous at all to require someone to show proof that they're here legally to get a driver license. Talk to the libertarians about that one-they're the ones against RealID.

I've never fully comprehended the resistance to a national ID card. Seems to me it would solve a lot of problems, from voter fraud to immigration issues. I've carried a military ID embedded with lots of personal info for 28 years. My wife too. My kid did too until she aged out. What's the big flippin' deal?

[Frozen Sooner]

I've never fully comprehended the resistance to a national ID card. Seems to me it would solve a lot of problems, from voter fraud to immigration issues. I've carried a military ID embedded with lots of personal info for 28 years. My wife too. My kid did too until she aged out. What's the big flippin' deal?

IT'S THE MARK OF THE BEAST!!!

[delhalew]

I've never fully comprehended the resistance to a national ID card. Seems to me it would solve a lot of problems, from voter fraud to immigration issues. I've carried a military ID embedded with lots of personal info for 28 years. My wife too. My kid did too until she aged out. What's the big flippin' deal?

It's the national part. If we didn't already have SS cards, I feel like I would resist more. The new idea is biometric cards with chips. That is just way too sci-fi for me. The tracking and surveillance possibilities are endless.

[Okla-homey]

It's the national part. If we didn't already have SS cards, I feel like I would resist more. The new idea is biometric cards with chips. That is just way too sci-fi for me. The tracking and surveillance possibilities are endless.

military ID's have been "biometric with chips" for at least ten years now. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH SKEEEERY!!!!!!;)

Here's another one. Everyone who has been in the military during, or since, 1990 have had a DNA sample taken and recorded in a vast gubmint database. It was done to insure there would be no more "unknown soldiers" when human remains could not be identified.

No big deal.