PDA

View Full Version : ESPN Insider: Bosh to Thunder Talk Heats Up



sooner59
4/23/2010, 02:46 PM
I don't have Insider, but that was the headline. Oh my, would I like to get Bosh. We would be amazing.

stoopified
4/24/2010, 09:57 PM
That rumor was mentioned on ESPN tv the other day as well.I don't recall what show but I was thinking: HELL YES!

ndpruitt03
4/24/2010, 10:31 PM
If this happens the Thunder will be right there with LA as favorites to win it all.

yankee
4/24/2010, 11:01 PM
i assume we have the cap space (i know we have a lot) to get bosh and keep everyone, or close to everyone?

setem
4/24/2010, 11:22 PM
BLOWING YO BACK OUT!

Thunder up!

ndpruitt03
4/24/2010, 11:23 PM
i assume we have the cap space (i know we have a lot) to get bosh and keep everyone, or close to everyone?

Most everyone is already signed because they aren't out of their rookie contracts I think KD will need to be resigned soon. His contract year is next year. But he's staying in OKC. But other than that they are signed for the next couple of years.

the_ouskull
4/27/2010, 05:37 PM
Man, I wish there was a place that I could go to on the internet where I could find stories like this one, only with all of the content that you didn't include in your post.

Like, I don't know, maybe THIS thread, started a day prior...

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141317

the_ouskull

yankee
4/27/2010, 07:18 PM
it's all in the thread title. :cool: :rolleyes:

stoopified
4/28/2010, 01:59 PM
it's all in the thread title. :cool: :rolleyes:skull has his nose bet out of shape because he wants Bosh to Hellton....I mean Houston and everyone is talking him up to OKC. :D

I think he KNOWS OKC has the salary space and Rockets would have to get rid of some players or redo contracts to have any shot at paying Bosh the right money.

the_ouskull
4/28/2010, 04:56 PM
Bosh would allow Yao to play wherever he likes, and would be a huge help, in re: weak-side defense and rebounding. Not to mention another player through whom the offense can run when Yao's not on the court. Houston was darn near a playoff team this season, with no T-Mac, and no Yao... not to mention the other injuries. With Yao back and Bosh added, they're contenders. Yeah, I said it.

the_ouskull

w0lfe
4/29/2010, 07:59 AM
If this happens the Thunder will be right there with LA as favorites to win it all.

LA wont be favored to win it all next year

ndpruitt03
4/29/2010, 09:34 AM
LA wont be favored to win it all next year

I don't know with those 2/3 big guys they have they will be tough to beat. Even if Kobe isn't near as good as he's been.

bri
4/29/2010, 10:31 PM
Kobe will have an actual off-season to heal all his nagging injuries. He'll be back to form next year.

Having said that, I think our performance thus far has pointed out that it's a very fine line between "experienced" and "old". LA is starting to tip towards the latter. With Dallas exposed as a fraud once again and the Spurs aging in dog years, we're about two years and a legit big man (y'know, like Bosh) away from serious title contention.

ndpruitt03
4/29/2010, 10:38 PM
I think if Ibaka can develop a post game he'll be the next big time big man in the game. I'm not sure they can afford Bosh.

theresonly1OU
4/29/2010, 11:02 PM
I think if Ibaka can develop a post game he'll be the next big time big man in the game. I'm not sure they can afford Bosh.

Kyle Korver would be a great get. He shot 53% from 3 and only cost 5.1 mil this year.

Curly Bill
4/29/2010, 11:04 PM
If Kyle Korver comes to the Thunder I'll be sure to remain a slightly bigger Mavericks fan. I can't stand Kyle Korver.

bri
4/29/2010, 11:11 PM
Kyle Korver would be a great get. He shot 53% from 3 and only cost 5.1 mil this year.

We already have a p*ssy little big that likes to float around outside. What we need is a REAL post presence.

Ton Loc
4/29/2010, 11:44 PM
I think if Ibaka can develop a post game he'll be the next big time big man in the game. I'm not sure they can afford Bosh.

They have the cap room for Bosh. I'd put OKC and Houston down as the favorites for the next team Bosh is on.

ndpruitt03
4/30/2010, 11:17 AM
They have the cap room for Bosh. I'd put OKC and Houston down as the favorites for the next team Bosh is on.

In the next couple of years they will have to resign Durant, Green, and Westbrook to bigger deals. It won't be easy to afford those 3 and Bosh.

the_ouskull
4/30/2010, 01:11 PM
We already have a p*ssy little big that likes to float around outside. What we need is a REAL post presence.

Jeff Green for Kyle Korver and a first-rounder. Sure, Utah's first-rounder won't be big, but it could be used to get a stud pretty cheaply. BUT, it would have to be a sign-and-trade deal since Korver's contract expires on July 1st. Otherwise, we're looking at free agency.

I'd rather see OKC go after someone more well-rounded, like Mike Miller, whose contract also expires July 1st. I think that Green could be used to pry away a play like Korver or Miller... a shooter... away from a non-contender.

I like Green to Denver for Aaron Affalo and Reynaldo Balkman. According to ESPN's trade machine, that would up Denver's win total by 1, and lower OKC's by 3. So, why do it? Well, because then that frees OKC up to get rid of Sefolosha, who is killing them on the court with his inability to hit anything that isn't a layup... and he doesn't handle the ball well enough to get those.

- Affalo is a top-notch defender, AND he's amongst the league leaders in both 3pt%, and eFG%. Maybe we give up a little bit of defense, but, against the Kobe's of the world, that matters very little anyway. We're still getting a guy who can make opposing players work their butt off on defense. A backcourt of Affalo and Westbrook could switch on most opposing guards with little to no difficulty as well.

- Balkman, while also an excellent defender, is just there to make the salaries work.

We lose Jeff Green. That would hurt OKC, surely... so, we need to replace him, and, now that Sefolosha just became available...

Good thing Bosh is thinking about coming to OKC, right? :D

A starting lineup of Westbrook, Harden/Affalo, Durant, Ibaka, and Bosh wouldn't scare other teams, would it? :D Especially considering what that lineup would still be able to bring off of the bench...

Maynor, Collison, and Harden/Affalo. This team's eight deep with guys that can play.

Oh yeah, I left out Nenad 'cause he's worthless too. When he and Sefolosha came to this team, they and their particular skill sets were desperately needed. Now, they're liabilities to our progression.

So, what would we potentially get for Sefolosha or Krstic? Hmmm...

- The Golden State Warriors receive Krstic in exchange for Ronny Turiaf. So, that takes care of our interior defense/toughness problem. What about scoring? Well, this is obviously something that can only happen if we lure Bosh and see Serge continue to progress offensively in the post. (STOP TAKING JUMPERS SERGE!)

- Krstic, Sefolosha, and B.J. Mullen's corpse to New Orleans for Emeka Okafor. Not only would the salaries match up, but we'd be cutting all KINDS of dead weight. Now, Okafor not really improving since joining the league and his still having five years left on a big deal are both problems, but he's been a double-double guy since joining the league too. But, with Bosh on the other block, Okafor would be able to concentrate on what he actually CAN do... defend and rebound.

- Sefolosha and Krstic to NOLA for David West. Would NOLA do it? Eh? Center and Shooting Guard are "areas of need" for them, and this would address two areas, while only hurting one. BUT, considering Shinn is a cheap piece of sh*t, it's feasible.

Now, let's REALLY play...

- Jeff Green in a sign-and-trade with Memphis for Rudy Gay. Gay may walk, and Memphis wants something for him. Green may be that something Memphis needs. A selfless player.

- Krstic, Thabo, and a 2012 first-rounder to the Knicks for a sign-and-trade with David Lee. If that doesn't make you make happy in your knickers, then you're not a Thunder fan. ESPECIALLY if Bosh signs on.

('cause it's doable even if he does... OKC has enough cap space, for this COMING year, anyway - to sign a player like Lee to a solid deal, and still offer Bosh a max contract - of course, I've been leaving out of all of this Bosh stuff how badly he wants to be "The Man," which will never happen for him alongside OKC's Plastic Man... GO TO HOUSTON CHRIS! GO! It will make you an All-Star. It will make you a champion!)

Sorry...

Anyway, a starting lineup of Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Lee, and Bosh. Ibaka, Maynor, Collison, et al.. off of the bench. Sh*t, that lineup's not even fair...

So, those are some of my thoughts...

the_ouskull

the_ouskull
4/30/2010, 07:43 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5152854

starclassic tama
4/30/2010, 11:43 PM
i'd love to have bosh, but i'd be thrilled with david lee

the_ouskull
5/1/2010, 12:46 PM
The questions would still remain...

Would we have to give up Green to get/sign a Bosh or Lee? If we could make it work, under the cap, which we'll be able to do until we have to re-structure/sign Durant and Westbrook - so for a year, maybe two - without losing Green, would he be willing to come off the bench on "his" team? He's not as good as Bosh or Lee. Not even close.

the_ouskull

Mark_in_Tulsa
5/1/2010, 03:43 PM
The questions would still remain...

Would we have to give up Green to get/sign a Bosh or Lee? If we could make it work, under the cap, which we'll be able to do until we have to re-structure/sign Durant and Westbrook - so for a year, maybe two - without losing Green, would he be willing to come off the bench on "his" team? He's not as good as Bosh or Lee. Not even close.

the_ouskull

On a S/T, Toronto would probably want one of the SG's Thabo or Harden and then also Green. Maybe picks also.

the_ouskull
5/1/2010, 06:50 PM
What worries the crap out of me about dealing with Toronto is, I think they're (already - lol) ready to wash their hands of the Hedo Turkoglu situation too. In a s/t, I'm worried that they'll take less than they normally would in return in order to also dump off Turkoglu's salary on someone else.

But...

1) Presti is smart, and that would KILL the salary cap, even if it's just for one year, it's not bright at all. Especially for someone that won't help the team in any measurable way. (Turkoglu...)

2) OKC is in the envious position of not NEEDING Bosh, but wanting him.

3) If Turkoglu is included in any s/t's, it'd be nearly impossible, given his HUGE cap number and our low salaries, to make the numbers match up - meaning Toronto is basically going to have to give Bosh away, and take the best offer they get, since he's leaving anyway, like, I'd even put it at 100%. (99% if Turkoglu leaves first...)

So...

IF, and this is a small if, the Raptors can sign Bosh for a back-loaded maximum deal, in order to facilitate the trade...

He'd have to sign something that's in the league of only about 4 million for next season in order to make the numbers (with he and Turkoglu) work in the s/t with OKC... and that 4 million (ish) number assumes that the following happens...

Toronto trades Bosh and Turkoglu to OKC for: Green, Sefolosha, Krstic, and B.J. Mullen's corpse.

Bosh made 15 million this past season, and players of his caliber around the league are typically paid in the 12-16 million / year range. I don't think that he's willing to go to a team in OKC where he would 1) not be "The Man," and 2) not be paid the way he feels he deserves... and that he does, in fact, deserve.

Houston, on the other hand... :D

the_ouskull

stoopified
5/3/2010, 03:02 PM
Bosh made 15 million this past season, and players of his caliber around the league are typically paid in the 12-16 million / year range. I don't think that he's willing to go to a team in OKC where he would 1) not be "The Man," and 2) not be paid the way he feels he deserves... and that he does, in fact, deserve.

Houston, on the other hand... :D

the_ouskullFWIW Myron Patton and the guys at KOKH sports agree that Bosh wants to be THE MAN and thus is unlikely to come to OKC.He is already THE MAN in Toronto and all he has done is make money and not win many games, so I fail to understand that mindset. On the other hand if he went to Houston he has to share the spotlight with Yao and McGrady,so I don't see where that would be better for him than OKC.

In any case I think Presti has prven to be a very astute judge of talent,character so I'm sure he will find a free agent or draft pick(we do have 2 #1's) to fill the lowpost scoring need.I would be the first to admit that I don't know who or even if there is a free agent or draft pick this year to fill that need but I'm betting Sam and Scott do know.As usual I trust guys who are doing a good job will keep doing a good job.

I learned my lesson when I said WTF when the Thunder signed Kritic and drafted Ibaka.

OU Adonis
5/3/2010, 05:32 PM
The odds are that you aren't going to get anything better than what we have out of the draft. Starting talent is lean outside of the lottery.

the_ouskull
5/3/2010, 05:36 PM
Well, his "The Man"-itis makes a bit more sense in Houston, 1) because McGrady's gone, and 2) Yao's a pretty deferential guy. Nobody else is going to take the mantle from him. Kevin Martin. Good, not great. Brooks? Good, not great. Battier? Ariza?

Houston and Bosh makes a lot of sense, in my humble opinion.. It'll put him back in Tejas, on a team that 1) needs him, and 2) can use him correctly, 3) in a situation where he'll be looked at as "The Man" IF he delivers on the court. That's the main thing. You can want to be that guy all you want to, but if you don't play like that guy, then nobody cares.

the_ouskull

stoops the eternal pimp
5/21/2010, 03:30 PM
Bosh's 5 team list includes

Toronto, Chicago, Lakers, Miami, and New York according to ESPN

Eielson
5/21/2010, 06:29 PM
Why did he list the Lakers? Wishful thinking?

the_ouskull
5/21/2010, 11:12 PM
Why did he list the Lakers? Wishful thinking?

Because Kobe's and Fish going out soon, Pau isn't a "rah-rah" guy, Odom is a candy-munching buffoon, and Bynum would make one HECK of a chip for a s/t. Notice he's not exactly a force this round? I don't see it happening either, mainly 'cause he and Pau can't operate on the low post together, and, as much as Bosh likes shooting those mid-range jumpers, he'd be in Kobe's area then. That won't happen.

I'm telling you. Bosh to Houston.

the_ouskull

Eielson
5/22/2010, 09:27 AM
Because Kobe's and Fish going out soon, Pau isn't a "rah-rah" guy, Odom is a candy-munching buffoon, and Bynum would make one HECK of a chip for a s/t.

The problem I see is that Bynum will make about 12.5M next year, and Odom will make about 7.5M. I'm guessing that Bosh will make about both of those combined. Would we have to trade both of them?

Mark_in_Tulsa
5/22/2010, 06:11 PM
The problem I see is that Bynum will make about 12.5M next year, and Odom will make about 7.5M. I'm guessing that Bosh will make about both of those combined. Would we have to trade both of them?

It would be most likely a Bynum and Sasha (expiring) for Bosh and J-Jack. Toronto would not and could not afford Odom.

Eielson
5/22/2010, 06:59 PM
It would be most likely a Bynum and Sasha (expiring) for Bosh and J-Jack. Toronto would not and could not afford Odom.

Can the Lakers afford that?

the_ouskull
5/22/2010, 09:46 PM
There are trade exceptions that a lot of teams have lying around, and there's a bit more math to it than I'm making there out to be, but, basically, your incoming salaries and your outgoing salaries have to match up to keep you under whatever the salary cap is for that particular season. If you are over the salary cap, then the team has to match dollar-for-dollar, for each dollar over the cap they are, paid in the form of a fine to the league. Genius, right? So, what happens is you'll get aging teams like Boston and San Antonio paying (over-paying?) older free agents and putting themselves over the cap, forcing them into Luxury Tax territory, preventing them from signing any new free agents without making other deals (cuts, trades, etc...) to dock salary. Some owners (Buss, Cuban) don't care about paying the Luxury Tax. Others (Sterling...) will try to avoid paying it at all costs.

But, what it mainly does, is keep teams like Boston and San Antonio, etc... (Think Detroit from the late-2000's. L.A. from the mid-2000's...) it keeps those teams good, but not "good enough."

They can't ever afford to sign new players, because they're always over the cap. The players that they have, while older, are more than good enough to win with; even dominate with, now. Which, while a positive for operating costs (for teams that make the playoffs, that money is almost complete profit... O.C.-wise...) doesn't help the team in the long run. Usually the draft pick that teams like the Lakers get is too high to help the team right away, if ever.. because some drafts just aren't more than a few players deep - no matter what Chad Ford tries to tell you.

(Only three of the Lakers draft picks since 2005 are still currently seeing (NBA) action. Bynum, drafted 10th that year, and expected to be a project when drafted. Jordan Farmar... and Marc Gasol... who plays for Memphis. Aside from Bynum, the last good 1st round pick the Lakers have had was back in 1996, when they drafted their current starting point guard, Derek Fisher. (And, depending on your opinion of Eddie Jones - 1994, you could say that, after Fisher their last good first-round pick was Vlade back in 1989. In other words, the Lakers are a team built through free agency and built around an all-world talent in Kobe - and Shaq before him. And Magic. And Kareem. And West. And Mikan. The Lakers formula is a simple one. It doesn't hurt having All-Star center/forwards gifted to you for the cost of a bust of a 2nd round pick and the All-Star's younger brother, either...

But, that formula only works if the team's owner (Buss) is willing to spend out the wazoo to sign the occasional Ron Artest, over keeping a player like Trevor Ariza. The big name puts the butts in the seats. That keeps costs level until your loaded team makes their deep run into the playoffs, where you make all of your money back and then some, and load for bear against next year.

Or, you're a team like Minnesota. But, I could literally go on all day long about why I'd be a better G.M. for Minnesota than pretty much any candidate they'll bring in.

Anyway, the salary cap thing is selective... If you can unload an equal amount to what you're bringing in, then you can make the deal. If you can't, then you'll have to change your trade, or you'll have to cut someone to take on the extra cash.

Oh, and don't forget the Bird exception...

the_ouskull

Mark_in_Tulsa
5/22/2010, 11:34 PM
There are trade exceptions that a lot of teams have lying around, and there's a bit more math to it than I'm making there out to be, but, basically, your incoming salaries and your outgoing salaries have to match up to keep you under whatever the salary cap is for that particular season. If you are over the salary cap, then the team has to match dollar-for-dollar, for each dollar over the cap they are, paid in the form of a fine to the league. Genius, right? So, what happens is you'll get aging teams like Boston and San Antonio paying (over-paying?) older free agents and putting themselves over the cap, forcing them into Luxury Tax territory, preventing them from signing any new free agents without making other deals (cuts, trades, etc...) to dock salary. Some owners (Buss, Cuban) don't care about paying the Luxury Tax. Others (Sterling...) will try to avoid paying it at all costs.

But, what it mainly does, is keep teams like Boston and San Antonio, etc... (Think Detroit from the late-2000's. L.A. from the mid-2000's...) it keeps those teams good, but not "good enough."

They can't ever afford to sign new players, because they're always over the cap. The players that they have, while older, are more than good enough to win with; even dominate with, now. Which, while a positive for operating costs (for teams that make the playoffs, that money is almost complete profit... O.C.-wise...) doesn't help the team in the long run. Usually the draft pick that teams like the Lakers get is too high to help the team right away, if ever.. because some drafts just aren't more than a few players deep - no matter what Chad Ford tries to tell you.

(Only three of the Lakers draft picks since 2005 are still currently seeing (NBA) action. Bynum, drafted 10th that year, and expected to be a project when drafted. Jordan Farmar... and Marc Gasol... who plays for Memphis. Aside from Bynum, the last good 1st round pick the Lakers have had was back in 1996, when they drafted their current starting point guard, Derek Fisher. (And, depending on your opinion of Eddie Jones - 1994, you could say that, after Fisher their last good first-round pick was Vlade back in 1989. In other words, the Lakers are a team built through free agency and built around an all-world talent in Kobe - and Shaq before him. And Magic. And Kareem. And West. And Mikan. The Lakers formula is a simple one. It doesn't hurt having All-Star center/forwards gifted to you for the cost of a bust of a 2nd round pick and the All-Star's younger brother, either...

But, that formula only works if the team's owner (Buss) is willing to spend out the wazoo to sign the occasional Ron Artest, over keeping a player like Trevor Ariza. The big name puts the butts in the seats. That keeps costs level until your loaded team makes their deep run into the playoffs, where you make all of your money back and then some, and load for bear against next year.

Or, you're a team like Minnesota. But, I could literally go on all day long about why I'd be a better G.M. for Minnesota than pretty much any candidate they'll bring in.

Anyway, the salary cap thing is selective... If you can unload an equal amount to what you're bringing in, then you can make the deal. If you can't, then you'll have to change your trade, or you'll have to cut someone to take on the extra cash.

Oh, and don't forget the Bird exception...

the_ouskull

Good post.
Artest tho did cost the same amount as Ariza did. They both got the same contract, but Lakers chose Artest of Ariza.

And you don't have to perfectly match contracts in a trade. They just have to be within 125% of each other, if both teams are over the cap. If one team is under the cap then you don't have to worry about keeping numbers close.

And the Bird Exception is for resigning your own players if they had played 3 years with you straight or had a 3 year contract that was played over multiple teams. If you have a players Bird rights then you can resign them even if you are over the cap.

Buss is one of the best owners out there. The Lakers are his sole income maker. Even tho this year they have the highest salary he is not in the red. Just smart moves and plenty of playoff games every year allow him to spend. Cuban with all the money in the world just tries to throw money at their problems.

the_ouskull
5/23/2010, 08:23 AM
Which works when you have a league/team transcendent star like Kobe; someone who other players fear; including teammates. Nobody is going to be scared to face down Dirk in the locker room if they miss an open jumper at the end of a game. Kobe? Jordan? Those guy get in faces, and they're winners.

And I know about Ariza and Artest. And I know alllll about the Bird exception. And I know alllll about the 125% markers. I was giving basketball for dummies. Well, MY version of that, anyway. If there are going to be more advanced hoops minds hanging out, I'd be happy to start speaking less English and more Skull. :D

the_ouskull

Eielson
5/23/2010, 04:24 PM
I was thinking it had to be within 15% and was thinking of Bosh more in the 20M range. With 25%, 16-17M would be pretty easy.

ndpruitt03
5/23/2010, 05:40 PM
I think the Thunder won't go after Bosh because the front office would rather build on the base we have right now and pay Durant, Westbrook, Green, Ibaka, and Hardin what they are worth in the upcoming years and continue to add some parts through the draft. They don't need a star anymore they have a couple of those already. They need parts that fit.

diegosooner
5/29/2010, 12:05 PM
I'll guess Bosh stays in Toronto or signs with Chicago.