Temple, TX: "Paddle the kids." - YES!!!

[sooner59]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/15/AR2010041505964.html?g=0

Are you telling me it takes Texans to get this right? :confused:

[C&CDean]

A conservative would say "paddle my child if he deserves it and let me know so I can wear that *** out again when he comes home."

A liberal would say:

"A House subcommittee held a hearing on the practice Thursday, and its chairman, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), is gearing up for a push to end the practice once and for all. She plans to introduce legislation within weeks.

"When you look that the federal government has outlawed physical punishment in prisons, I think the time has come that we should do it in schools," she said.

A joint American Civil Liberties Union-Human Rights Watch report last year found that students with disabilities were disproportionately subjected to corporal punishment, sometimes in direct response to behavioral problems that were a result of their disabilities. Many educators and psychologists say that positive tools, such as giving praise for good behavior and withholding it for bad, are far more effective for discouraging misbehavior.

Those techniques "encourage them to behave well in the future," said report author Alice Farmer. Paddling "makes students lose respect for their teachers."

[TopDawg]

A liberal would say to his kid "Don't misbehave in school."

A conservative would say to his kid "Take a gun and if any of those teachers come at you, shoot 'em!"

[C&CDean]

A liberal would say to his kid "let mommy know if those bad teachers mess with you."

A conservative would say to his kid "boy, if I find out you got paddled up at the schoolhouse you're gonna get it worse at the house"

Fixed. And again, you know it.

[Pricetag]

All the teachers and administrators are a bunch of dirty, union-represented libs, right? Do we want them having the authority to spank our kids?

[TopDawg]

So that's the game?


A conservative would say "paddle my child if he deserves it and let me know so I can wear that *** out again when he comes home."

A liberal would say:

"A House subcommittee held a hearing on the practice Thursday, and its chairman, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), is gearing up for a push to end the practice once and for all. She plans to introduce legislation within weeks.

"When you look that the federal government has outlawed physical punishment in prisons, I think the time has come that we should do it in schools," she said.

A joint American Civil Liberties Union-Human Rights Watch report last year found that students with disabilities were disproportionately subjected to corporal punishment, sometimes in direct response to behavioral problems that were a result of their disabilities. Many educators and psychologists say that positive tools, such as giving praise for good behavior and withholding it for bad, are far more effective for discouraging misbehavior.

Those techniques "encourage them to behave well in the future," said report author Alice Farmer. Paddling "makes students lose respect for their teachers."

Pile of poop. And again, you know it.

[C&CDean]

Dude, it's her words not mine. And I agree, pile of poop.

[Jello Biafra]

. Paddling "makes students lose respect for their teachers."

trust me, like someone else said here earlier, i practically had my own desk in the pricipals office. AT SOME SCHOOLS!

at others, if they were paddling, i was FEARFUL i would fuggup. its not lack of respect, its saying "hmmmm. do whats right....getthataszzbusted" ill take the easy road for 100...

[yermom]

from personal experience, i wouldn't want teachers touching my kids, if i had them

if there is spanking to be done, i'll ****ing do it

[TopDawg]

Oh, well these were my words and my "fairly accurate and fair" conclusions based on the conservative statements by people on this message board (you included).


A liberal would say to his kid "Don't misbehave in school."

A conservative would say to his kid "Take a gun and if any of those teachers come at you, shoot 'em!"

[C&CDean]

That doesn't make any sense.

Everybody knows liberals wanna sue the schools and teachers for their POS kids failing and getting into trouble. They wanna blame somebody/something for their poor parenting.

Do a poll. Find out the political persuasions of the folks who bitch about the teachers at school and the folks who support the teachers. I dare ya.

[sooner59]

I'm left of center and I say whoop my kid's *** if he deserves it. Then I'll whoop it again at home. It doesn't take a political stance for me to teach a kid that they weren't raised in a barn.

And if any of you here were raised in a barn, I apologize......but I ain't surprised. :D

[yermom]

the subjective side of "if he deserves it" is the problem

i think i might fight my 3rd and 5th grade teacher if i ran into her now

[C&CDean]

from personal experience, i wouldn't want teachers touching my kids, if i had them

if there is spanking to be done, i'll ****ing do it

Why? You got some stories to tell us? We're bored and have all kinds of time.

[yermom]

i wasn't the best student, but i was not a troublemaker

i got swats once for fighting, once for spitballs. that i could handle (neither of those were from her the above teacher, actually in other schools)

it was for things like sharpening my pencil that **** me off

[C&CDean]

The question though is did the swats hurt you as a person? Did they harm you psychologically? Did they help you as a person?

I was a rotten-assed troublemaker who was a good student (until 9th grade when I discovered weed/drugs/etc.)

I honestly believe the discipline I got from principals (never got swats from a teacher) and my dad beating the hell out of me helped tons. Not at the time, but later in life reflecting back on it. I was headed down the wrong street for sure.

[TopDawg]

What I'm about to say doesn't make any sense.

Everybody knows liberals wanna sue the schools and teachers for their POS kids failing and getting into trouble. They wanna blame somebody/something for their poor parenting.

Do a poll. Find out the political persuasions of the folks who bitch about the teachers at school and the folks who support the teachers. I dare ya.

Fixed, and you know it.

You're right...we are bored.

[TopDawg]

The question though is did the swats hurt you as a person? Did they harm you psychologically? Did they help you as a person?

I was a rotten-assed troublemaker who was a good student (until 9th grade when I discovered weed/drugs/etc.)

I honestly believe the discipline I got from principals (never got swats from a teacher) and my dad beating the hell out of me helped tons. Not at the time, but later in life reflecting back on it. I was headed down the wrong street for sure.

Dean...I'm not opposed to swats. Like yermom said, the subjective part of "when he/she deserves it" is the key. I find it hilarious...not criminal...that someone I know very well got swats as a senior in high school for tardies. Did it fix the problem? No. Was it hilarious? Hell yeah.

The story refers to a study that shows that kids with disabilities are disproportionately punished...sometimes for behavior associated with their disability. If a kid has ADD and can't do his work in class quietly, do you think swats are the best way to handle that? Is it going to fix the problem?

You might be right about what the question is "did the swats hurt you as a person? Did they harm you psychologically? Did they help you as a person?"

That answer is going to be different for everybody. Just because they helped you as a person and didn't harm you psychologically doesn't mean that such is the case for everybody. IF the swats harm you psychologically and don't help you as a person, should they be given?

[sooner59]

I think I was slightly ADD as a child.....and honestly probably still am. Adderol is pretty effective, but 40mg of ***whoopin worked on me, too. :D

[yermom]

The question though is did the swats hurt you as a person? Did they harm you psychologically? Did they help you as a person?

I was a rotten-assed troublemaker who was a good student (until 9th grade when I discovered weed/drugs/etc.)

I honestly believe the discipline I got from principals (never got swats from a teacher) and my dad beating the hell out of me helped tons. Not at the time, but later in life reflecting back on it. I was headed down the wrong street for sure.

basically it instilled a lot of anxiety about school, and i didn't really understand at the time that it wasn't normal, and set up habits that stayed with me into college

i wasn't headed down the wrong road, but i very would could have been

[TopDawg]

If nothing else, this thread made me tune into a good part of my music library.

"Wrong, Do it again!"
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"
"You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still laddy!"

Well, when we grew up and went to school,
There were certain teachers,
Who would hurt the children in any way they could,
By pouring their derision,
Upon anything we did,
Exposing every weakness,
However carefully hidden by the kids.

But in (but in) the town it was well known,
When they got home at night,
Their fat and psychopathic wives would thrash them,
Within inches of their lives.

[GottaHavePride]

OK, see, the thing these pinheads are missing in the whole paddling debate - and by pinheads I mean legislators, not Dean and TopDawg - is that you can't treat every child the same.

First, you don't paddle mentally disabled kids. They may not even be aware of what they're doing.

Second, and again, different kids respond differently. Some kids might respond well to positive reinforcement or reward. Some kids need a good thumping to knock sense into them. You have to hire teachers you can trust to know the difference and let them do their damn jobs. As soon as you try to legislate that every child must be treated in X Y Z way, well... even those mentally disabled kids will tell you that's retarded.

[sooner59]

Hehe, nicely put. The only problem is.....speaking from experience with my k-12 school, there are very few teachers at that level with that kind of sense. When you find them, cherish them, because they are few and far between.

[SunnySooner]

lol, this thread reminded me of the one and only time I ever got paddled at school. Our 24 yr. old male choir teacher apparently decided one day that he was "fed UP" with the backtalk from all of us 16 year old girls. So he lined about 9 of us up, had us "assume the position" (hands on knees, butt out), and gave us 3 whacks each. Damn prevert!!! He got PAID to do that!!!

[sooner59]

Sounds like he was "UP" alright. Don't know about the "fed" part. :)

[Crucifax Autumn]

I have a new hero.

[GottaHavePride]

Hehe, nicely put. The only problem is.....speaking from experience with my k-12 school, there are very few teachers at that level with that kind of sense. When you find them, cherish them, because they are few and far between.

Well, THAT one goes to my opinion that teacher's aren't paid NEARLY enough for the kind of responsibilities they have. (Such as, supervising people's children for half their waking hours over half the days of the year.)

If teachers were paid what they ought* to be paid, schools would attract a MUCH higher caliber of teacher. As it is right now, very few people genuinely want to be teachers of kids that age.



* - that "ought" up there... entry-level teachers should be making $50,000 a year. The most senior teachers, heads of departments, etc. should be making closer to $85,000 a year. I would also ridiculously slash administrative staffs. There's nothing assistant principals do that couldn't be handled by a rotating committee of faculty.

Also, coaches should not be teaching any classes unless they are specifically qualified to be teaching those classes. Now before you get bent out of shape, my AP Chemistry teacher in high school was the girl's soccer coach. Multiple-time state champs. Did she know her chemistry? Hell yes, she did.

[sooner59]

I support raising teachers' salaries as well. I agree with everything you said. Only thing is if a coach has an education in a certain area and they are good at it, I see no problem in letting them double up. My best teachers in high school were coaches. They were just as passionate about math, US History, World History, and Biology as they were football, baseball, and basketball. I admired that about them.

[GottaHavePride]

I support raising teachers' salaries as well. I agree with everything you said. Only thing is if a coach has an education in a certain area and they are good at it, I see no problem in letting them double up. My best teachers in high school were coaches. They were just as passionate about math, US History, World History, and Biology as they were football, baseball, and basketball. I admired that about them.

That's what I mean - if they actually know their subject and can teach it, let them. But that should be optional, and if they can handle it, they should be paid extra. The problem is some schools that REQUIRE them to teach a class - regardless of whether they're qualified or not - simply because they're faculty.

[sooner59]

Very true. I agree with that.

[Dio]

lol, this thread reminded me of the one and only time I ever got paddled at school. Our 24 yr. old male choir teacher apparently decided one day that he was "fed UP" with the backtalk from all of us 16 year old girls. So he lined about 9 of us up, had us "assume the position" (hands on knees, butt out), and gave us 3 whacks each. Damn prevert!!! He got PAID to do that!!!

This post is worthless without pics.

[jkjsooner]

Also, coaches should not be teaching any classes unless they are specifically qualified to be teaching those classes. Now before you get bent out of shape, my AP Chemistry teacher in high school was the girl's soccer coach. Multiple-time state champs. Did she know her chemistry? Hell yes, she did.

This is off-topic but I went to a very small school. When they were hiring a coach it was pretty much understood that the coach had to be qualified to teach math. Maybe it just happened that at one time the coaches happened to be math teachers and from then on every time you had to replace one you had to get someone who could teach math as well. I had the feeling that that was very common in other small schools as well.

One thing I could say is that they were all good math teachers. They knew their stuff and liked to teach. It definitely didn't fit the stereotype of the jock coach who is forced to teach a couple of social studies classes.

It's totally different out here in Virginia. I've had a couple of coworkers (I do not work in a school) who were head coaches in the local high schools - one women's basketball and one men's lacrosse. These were large schools and it totally surprised me that their coaching positions were barely paid part-time workers.

[Leroy Lizard]

First, you don't paddle mentally disabled kids. They may not even be aware of what they're doing.

That depends on the nature of the disability.

[jkjsooner]

Dean,

Your post fits a pattern I've noticed over the years. Parents who got into trouble as kids seem to be more disciplinarian. Not saying that's bad - you could argue that those people recognize the need for discipline.

Some opinions:

1. I'm not against spanking but I do feel that in many cases it is the lazy way out. In a lot of cases there are much more effective measures that can be taken. Taking away privileges is, in my opinion, a better alternative. It also takes a lot more time and persistence on the part of the adult.

I firmly believe that for the very young a swat - especially to warn of a dangerous situation - is about the only effective way to get a child's attention.

I do think corporal punishment should be administered in an thoughtful way. The best way is to let the child know that you love him/her (assuming you're the parent) and that this is for their own good. It should never be done in anger and it should not be to a level that encourages violence. If done right I don't think it sends mixed messages about violence but if done wrong I definitely think it does.

2. Part of me thinks that the parents should have the say in this but, then again, it is the teachers who are responsible for discipline and order in the classroom. It's great when parents do their job but we all know that many don't. We can't ignore the fact that teachers are with the kids 6/7 hours a day and they should have a say in this.

3. When I moved to Virginia 15 years ago, I talked about spankings in school and everyone here looked at me like I was from a different planet. Even people who went to school in the late '60s did not have corporal punishment - at least not at the high school level.

4. As for parenting, I think the most important thing you can do is show consistency. I oldest brother swears by the belt and often criticizes my other brother who does not spank. (First, it's none of his damn business but that's beside the point.) Frankly, I think my non-spanking brother has much more well behaved children simply because he is more consistent that my other brother. When the oldest brother's kids act up, you never know if he's going to go off yelling and screaming and get the belt or whether he's going to laugh it off - even subtly encourage it. It's such a mixed signal whcih makes it all the harder to hear him get on his soapbox about others who don't spank.

[Jacie]

Seems the parents responding to this thread are full of righteous indignation over the mere thought that their child would need discipline and in the unlikely event it were neccessary, that anyone but they should mete it out.

Reality check: Schools are full of kids bringing all of their baggage from home, most of it heaped upon them by their parents, and don't know how to control their own emotions. I am not talking about the class clown we all fondly remember. Tell a teenager who has done more different kinds of illegal substances than everyone on this board put together, who isn't afraid to backtalk their own parents let alone you, who may be carrying contraband or a weapon, that if he doesn't stop disrupting class he'll get detention and listen to the laughter. Kids hear about consequences all the time but there is precious little teachers can actually do. It only takes one kid to turn a class upside down. If the threat of a swat, what we called paddling in my highschool, exists then that is one more, not the beginning or end of, consequences schools have then I am all for them.

Speaking of teachers, I have yet to meet one that didn't know their subject(s) area(s) inside and out nor one that did not do everything but backflips to get kids' interest and attention. But teachers must do so much more than teach, what we call the curriculum inside the curriculum in the trade. You can sit at your keyboard and trash them but people, it takes guts to stand there in front of 24 pairs of eyes six times a day waiting for you to lead them for the next 45 minutes. The problems with education didn't originate there. Teachers are trying to do their jobs with diminishing support from the people who you'd think have a vested interest in seeing they can the most, the parents. Lucky for them no one grades them on their kid raising skills.

[Leroy Lizard]

* - that "ought" up there... entry-level teachers should be making $50,000 a year. The most senior teachers, heads of departments, etc. should be making closer to $85,000 a year. I would also ridiculously slash administrative staffs. There's nothing assistant principals do that couldn't be handled by a rotating committee of faculty.

I wouldn't mind being a public school teacher. However, you can take that principal's position and shove it, even at $100,000 per year. No teacher I know would want to do that kind of work unless paid very handsomely for it. Being a principal is the most thankless, and most aggravating, job on the planet. And you don't even get tenure.

[yermom]

Seems the parents responding to this thread are full of righteous indignation over the mere thought that their child would need discipline and in the unlikely event it were neccessary, that anyone but they should mete it out.

Reality check: Schools are full of kids bringing all of their baggage from home, most of it heaped upon them by their parents, and don't know how to control their own emotions. I am not talking about the class clown we all fondly remember. Tell a teenager who has done more different kinds of illegal substances than everyone on this board put together, who isn't afraid to backtalk their own parents let alone you, who may be carrying contraband or a weapon, that if he doesn't stop disrupting class he'll get detention and listen to the laughter. Kids hear about consequences all the time but there is precious little teachers can actually do. It only takes one kid to turn a class upside down. If the threat of a swat, what we called paddling in my highschool, exists then that is one more, not the beginning or end of, consequences schools have then I am all for them.

Speaking of teachers, I have yet to meet one that didn't know their subject(s) area(s) inside and out nor one that did not do everything but backflips to get kids' interest and attention. But teachers must do so much more than teach, what we call the curriculum inside the curriculum in the trade. You can sit at your keyboard and trash them but people, it takes guts to stand there in front of 24 pairs of eyes six times a day waiting for you to lead them for the next 45 minutes. The problems with education didn't originate there. Teachers are trying to do their jobs with diminishing support from the people who you'd think have a vested interest in seeing they can the most, the parents. Lucky for them no one grades them on their kid raising skills.

you want to give swats to kids that might be on drugs and/or might have weapons?

[Leroy Lizard]

This is off-topic but I went to a very small school. When they were hiring a coach it was pretty much understood that the coach had to be qualified to teach math. Maybe it just happened that at one time the coaches happened to be math teachers and from then on every time you had to replace one you had to get someone who could teach math as well. I had the feeling that that was very common in other small schools as well.


I find it interesting that you looked for a coach who could also teach math, rather than a math teacher who could also coach.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

lol, this thread reminded me of the one and only time I ever got paddled at school. Our 24 yr. old male choir teacher apparently decided one day that he was "fed UP" with the backtalk from all of us 16 year old girls. So he lined about 9 of us up, had us "assume the position" (hands on knees, butt out), and gave us 3 whacks each. Damn prevert!!! He got PAID to do that!!!

Those days are over. Something like that gets on You Tube and it would be an international smash.

In my younger days when I taught at Putnam City I learned it doesn't do any good unless you hit them as hard as you F**king can. Once in mid-swing a student quickly moved his hand to block the hit and so I hit the f**k out of his hand. Thank Allah that I didn't break any bones. It made me think twice about paddling after that.

Also Rodney King type you tubes inhibit paddling. Nobody wants to be seen on you tube beating the F**k out of a minority student.

[olevetonahill]

lol, this thread reminded me of the one and only time I ever got paddled at school. Our 24 yr. old male choir teacher apparently decided one day that he was "fed UP" with the backtalk from all of us 16 year old girls. So he lined about 9 of us up, had us "assume the position" (hands on knees, butt out), and gave us 3 whacks each. Damn prevert!!! He got PAID to do that!!!

Id have done it fer Free .:D :hot:

[Soonrboy]

My view is that not enought parents are spanking at home.I often tell parents, if this were my child, he/she would be getting a whipping at home. Often times the parents replies, we don't like to spank. I come back with, well, if you don't discipline now, one day, the cops will be doing the discliplining. I've had it with **** poor parents.

[GKeeper316]

The story refers to a study that shows that kids with disabilities are disproportionately punished...sometimes for behavior associated with their disability. If a kid has ADD and can't do his work in class quietly, do you think swats are the best way to handle that? Is it going to fix the problem?


i was one of the first kids diagnosed with ADD and put on ritalin back in the early 80s.

until i was diagnosed and recieved treatment, i was getting swats at least once a week in school (this was back in new mexico, where we were stationed at the time), starting in probably the 2nd grade and on up till 7th grade.

all swats did was make me want to misbehave worse, just because it was all i could do to **** off the teacher who decided that i needed swats in the first place. and yes my old man was doing his due diligence and whoopin my *** at home with his black leather belt. didnt help a bit.

after i was put on ritalin, and my teachers were made aware of my condition and how to respond to it, i became a model student.

corporal punishment doesnt work. its a bad idea, and when i finally have kids of my own, any adult that lays his hands on my child will answer to me.

its nobody's place to discipline a child except that childs parents.

[Leroy Lizard]

i was one of the first kids diagnosed with ADD and put on ritalin back in the early 80s.

The diagnosis of kids with ADD has been around longer than the 1980s.



its nobody's place to discipline a child except that childs parents.

Agreed. I'm all for corporal punishment, but no one other than me should touch my kids.

[yermom]

but he was first IN the 80's

keep up ;)

[GKeeper316]

The diagnosis of kids with ADD has been around longer than the 1980s.


oh believe me i know the history of ADD. the 80s were when the ritalin boom started. ADD was being better understood and diagnosed and ritalin was shown to be effective and physically safe, if monitored.

i hear now they make you take a blood test every 6 months if you're on it to check your kidney function.

[Fraggle145]

Well, THAT one goes to my opinion that teacher's aren't paid NEARLY enough for the kind of responsibilities they have. (Such as, supervising people's children for half their waking hours over half the days of the year.)

If teachers were paid what they ought* to be paid, schools would attract a MUCH higher caliber of teacher. As it is right now, very few people genuinely want to be teachers of kids that age.



* - that "ought" up there... entry-level teachers should be making $50,000 a year. The most senior teachers, heads of departments, etc. should be making closer to $85,000 a year. I would also ridiculously slash administrative staffs. There's nothing assistant principals do that couldn't be handled by a rotating committee of faculty.

Also, coaches should not be teaching any classes unless they are specifically qualified to be teaching those classes. Now before you get bent out of shape, my AP Chemistry teacher in high school was the girl's soccer coach. Multiple-time state champs. Did she know her chemistry? Hell yes, she did.

If they are going to get paid more then it needs to be harder to become a teacher... right now teachers are a dime a dozen, which is why they dont get paid. The proverbial 'everyone' who fails at something else thinks, 'Hey I know I have a degree, I should be a teacher." That shouldnt be enough. My mom is a teacher and I grew up around faculty and about half of them sucked.

[Fraggle145]

Part of the other problem with our schools, discipline, and 'ADD' is that the majority of teachers are women and expect everyone to act like little girls. Hence there is a disparity in the way boys and girls are treated. Little boys typically cant sit still quietly for as long as a little girl can. The wiring just ain't the same.

[Leroy Lizard]

If they are going to get paid more then it needs to be harder to become a teacher... right now teachers are a dime a dozen, which is why they dont get paid. The proverbial 'everyone' who fails at something else thinks, 'Hey I know I have a degree, I should be a teacher." That shouldnt be enough. My mom is a teacher and I grew up around faculty and about half of them sucked.

Agreed. For $80,000 a year I want at minimum a master's degree and the coursework in the colleges of education need to be much more rigorous.

[TopDawg]

I find it interesting that you looked for a coach who could also teach math, rather than a math teacher who could also coach.

Just like universities too often look for researchers who can (arguably) teach instead of teachers who can research.

I like your higher standards for teachers...wish that professors had to go through some sort of teaching curriculum too.

[Condescending Sooner]

$85,000 a year for a teacher is ridiculous. Yes they are supervising kids, but so are daycare workers.

[C&CDean]

ADD is a copout for being a ****ing brat. Or a genius.

Some kids just aren't wired to learn in the traditional way. I mean c'mon, you learn every ****ing thing you know from birth until 1st grade with a game or song. It was fun to learn your ABCs, how to count, which toe was your big toe, etc. Then, one ****ed up day they drag you into a room with a bunch of other kids and go "shut up, sit down, and pay attention." Some kids adjust to that method of learning, some do not. I was one of the ones who did not. Even today, if I can't play, have some hands-on games or entertaining instruction I am not interested at all.

When I was in grade school I always picked up everything very quick. The teacher would be trying to explain **** to the other kids with a "system" that bored me to tears. So, I misbehaved. I got swats, sent to the principal, etc. every damn week. I couldn't understand why the other kids were so stupid.

Nowadays they have programs for kids like me. Gifted and talented stuff where you could work at a level more appropriate to your intelligence. I honestly believe a lot of kids are diagnosed ADD/ADHD out of sheer laziness and ignorance on the parents/doctors part. "Hey, we've got a big-assed umbrella called ADD and any kid who isn't "normal" gets stuck underneath it."

Meh. One of my sons was diagnosed ADD back in the 80's. He had just moved back to Arizona with him mom. She got him all drugged up on Ritalin and it ****ed him up bad. He lasted about 2-months out there and came back to Oklahoma cause she couldn't handle him. I put a boot in his ***, got him off the drugs, and he has done fine since. No, he didn't finish high school - but neither did I. He's currently an electrician with a couple kids of his own, and if you told him you were going to give one of his kids Ritalin he'd break your ****ing arm to stop you.

And all you guys with the "only I will discipline my child" mentality are panty-waists. I got whipped by 3-4 dads on my block growing up. Got lots of school spankings too. It didn't hurt me a bit. Now if I find out somebody is actually abusing my kid then we've got a whole different story, but swats on the butt with a paddle do not = abuse.

[yermom]

$85,000 a year for a teacher is ridiculous. Yes they are supervising kids, but so are daycare workers.

especially with summers off.

sign me up :D

[Ike]

Just like universities too often look for researchers who can (arguably) teach instead of teachers who can research.

I like your higher standards for teachers...wish that professors had to go through some sort of teaching curriculum too.

At some schools they do, but often it just consists of a 'workshop' that lasts anywhere from one day to one week...and usually happens just once a year.


Building better teachers is possible...even without advanced degrees. But the trick is you have to have teachers that care about becoming better teachers.

Not only do they need to know how to manage a classroom, but they also need to understand just about every which way a kid can take a lesson in and get it all mangled up in their head. There are some that do, and those teachers should be getting way more money than they get now, because most of them not only do a great job teaching their own students, but they invariably wind up 'fixing' the problems of understanding that other teachers left their students with.

[Leroy Lizard]

At some schools they do, but often it just consists of a 'workshop' that lasts anywhere from one day to one week...and usually happens just once a year.

I've been through at least six such workshops, and they tend to be more orientations than training. Any help in teaching just comes across as "survival tips."

In other words, garbage.

I'm all for merit pay, but I'm not sure I know how to do it in a fair manner.

[Skysooner]

And all you guys with the "only I will discipline my child" mentality are panty-waists. I got whipped by 3-4 dads on my block growing up. Got lots of school spankings too. It didn't hurt me a bit. Now if I find out somebody is actually abusing my kid then we've got a whole different story, but swats on the butt with a paddle do not = abuse.

I have a special needs son that you would swear was normal until you had spent quite a bit of time around him. People who are not around him as much as we are have no clue how to discipline him in an effective manner. We are the first to support the teachers when any complaints are made about him. He is disciplined (usually through losing the things he loves to do at home but on occasion he does get spanked). I'm able to get just about perfect compliance at home and school through knowing what works with him. To say we are "panty-waists" is very short-sighted. You have to know what it feels like in another person's shoes before making a statement like that and have it mean anything. I take responsibility for making my child a good citizen, and there are tons of odds stacked against him simply due to his disability. I won't have someone who doesn't know him take a paddle to him. Other forms of punishment are fine and generally work.

[TopDawg]

At some schools they do, but often it just consists of a 'workshop' that lasts anywhere from one day to one week...and usually happens just once a year.

And those are usually optional.

Dee Fink is a pretty prominent author in this area and presents at some workshops. He created the Instructional Development Program at OU. Based on what I know of it, it's pretty good...but optional.

[Leroy Lizard]

And all you guys with the "only I will spank my child" mentality are panty-waists. I got whipped by 3-4 dads on my block growing up. Got lots of school spankings too. It didn't hurt me a bit. Now if I find out somebody is actually abusing my kid then we've got a whole different story, but swats on the butt with a paddle do not = abuse.

First, I fixed your quote.

Keep your damn hands off my kids. There is nothing panty-waist about that sentiment.

[TopDawg]

Especially when you use the word "damn."

[GKeeper316]

ADD is a copout for being a ****ing brat. Or a genius.

Some kids just aren't wired to learn in the traditional way. I mean c'mon, you learn every ****ing thing you know from birth until 1st grade with a game or song. It was fun to learn your ABCs, how to count, which toe was your big toe, etc. Then, one ****ed up day they drag you into a room with a bunch of other kids and go "shut up, sit down, and pay attention." Some kids adjust to that method of learning, some do not. I was one of the ones who did not. Even today, if I can't play, have some hands-on games or entertaining instruction I am not interested at all.

When I was in grade school I always picked up everything very quick. The teacher would be trying to explain **** to the other kids with a "system" that bored me to tears. So, I misbehaved. I got swats, sent to the principal, etc. every damn week. I couldn't understand why the other kids were so stupid.

Nowadays they have programs for kids like me. Gifted and talented stuff where you could work at a level more appropriate to your intelligence. I honestly believe a lot of kids are diagnosed ADD/ADHD out of sheer laziness and ignorance on the parents/doctors part. "Hey, we've got a big-assed umbrella called ADD and any kid who isn't "normal" gets stuck underneath it."

Meh. One of my sons was diagnosed ADD back in the 80's. He had just moved back to Arizona with him mom. She got him all drugged up on Ritalin and it ****ed him up bad. He lasted about 2-months out there and came back to Oklahoma cause she couldn't handle him. I put a boot in his ***, got him off the drugs, and he has done fine since. No, he didn't finish high school - but neither did I. He's currently an electrician with a couple kids of his own, and if you told him you were going to give one of his kids Ritalin he'd break your ****ing arm to stop you.

And all you guys with the "only I will discipline my child" mentality are panty-waists. I got whipped by 3-4 dads on my block growing up. Got lots of school spankings too. It didn't hurt me a bit. Now if I find out somebody is actually abusing my kid then we've got a whole different story, but swats on the butt with a paddle do not = abuse.

you're an ignorant ****in hillbilly and im grateful you arent in a position to decide public policy.

[C&CDean]

And you're an ADD retard. Guess that makes us even, no?

[C&CDean]

First, I fixed your quote.

Keep your damn hands off my kids. There is nothing panty-waist about that sentiment.

Oh I know you can't whip the neighbor kids anymore without getting sued by their POS parents who haven't taught them dick about home training and such. However, if your kid acts like an animal up at school they should have spanking as an option - with parental approval.

But like I said, this country has turned into a bunch of panty-waists and most of it starts at home. "Go to timeout Johnny." **** you dad." "Johnny, please don't use that language and tone, would you like me to take away your gameboy?" "**** you dad, you ain't got the balls to take away my gameboy and mom would give it back anyhow." "Yes Johnny..."

Meh.

[TopDawg]

you're an ignorant ****in hillbilly and im grateful you arent in a position to decide public policy.


And you're an ADD retard. Guess that makes us even, no?

You both should get swats.

[C&CDean]

Well I already learned my lesson to not ask "how many?"

[NormanPride]

I don't want random ****ing teachers hitting my kids, no matter how "good" they are. My mom spanked me just fine, and she taught kids as well. She'd be horrified if someone asked her to do that. It's not something someone else should do. The only people I'd even think about letting discipline my kids are other family members or really REALLY close friends that have kids of their own.

[C&CDean]

And that right there is why **** is all ****ed up now.

Back in the day, the teacher didn't spank you. It was the principal or the dean. If they communicate at the beginning of the school year that certain transgressions may result in swats, and the parent agrees then I'm all for it. And I also have the opinion that if you are a parent, and you don't agree, then you're a panty-waist. My opinion, nothing more.

[NormanPride]

It's a problem of trust, Dean. I don't trust other people because I've learned over the years that people are ****ed up. Back in the day, you could trust the Principal to keep his BDSM fetish at home where only his gay lover knew what was going on. Now, it's all over the place and I don't want that **** leaking over to the disciplining of my kids.

It's not about not wanting the discipline. It's that I don't think there's anyone out there that can execute it properly like I can for my kid.

Now, if you put in something like running laps or doing pushups or holding jugs of water I'd be all for it. Pain's pain, but this is more measurable to me than ***-beating. Wear their asses out so they don't have the energy to act up, then when they get home I can wear their asses out properly.

[SunnySooner]

I grew up with so many aunts and uncles, and much older cousins for that matter, that whoever was closest to you when you were acting up is the one that whacked you. I've been swatted by pretty much every older relative I have. And I love them all dearly.

[Pricetag]

And all you guys with the "only I will discipline my child" mentality are panty-waists. I got whipped by 3-4 dads on my block growing up. Got lots of school spankings too. It didn't hurt me a bit. Now if I find out somebody is actually abusing my kid then we've got a whole different story, but swats on the butt with a paddle do not = abuse.
People must have known each other a lot better back then. What you say could be correct, but only if I can be sure that the other party would make the exact same decision as I would in his or her place. I don't believe that kind of harmony has ever existed in this world.

[Leroy Lizard]

Oh I know you can't whip the neighbor kids anymore without getting sued by their POS parents who haven't taught them dick about home training and such. However, if your kid acts like an animal up at school they should have spanking as an option - with parental approval.

They can tell me what he did, and I'll take it from there.


But like I said, this country has turned into a bunch of panty-waists and most of it starts at home. "Go to timeout Johnny." **** you dad." "Johnny, please don't use that language and tone, would you like me to take away your gameboy?" "**** you dad, you ain't got the balls to take away my gameboy and mom would give it back anyhow." "Yes Johnny..."

But you were advocating something different. If the neighbor's kid is over at my house and acts up, I'm not going to whip him. Not my kid.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm actually amused by the thought of Dean whipping Leroy's kids' *** then whipping Leroy's *** when Leroy comes over to complain. Then whipping Leroy's dad's ***.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I want that **** on video.

[C&CDean]

I'm actually amused by the thought of Dean whipping Leroy's kids' *** then whipping Leroy's *** when Leroy comes over to complain. Then whipping Leroy's dad's ***.

Heh. This reminds me of a story from 1963. My family was flying from Paris to New York on a 707 because dad got stationed back stateside. Anyhow, I'm 6 years old, and I'm sitting between my pop and my little brother. In the seat in front of us was a kid who was maybe 10 or so. This kid kept turning around and standing up on the seat. My pop goes "sit down boy." So the kid sits down, but then a couple minutes later slowly puts his head up and decides it'd be smart to spit at me and my brother. Wrong thing to do. My dad's biggest pet peeve was spitting, and if someone spits on another person it is the nastiest thing one person could do to another.

Pop gets up, taps the guy in the seat and goes "is that your kid?" The guy goes "yeah, what about it?" Pop goes "if he spits over the seat again, I'm going to whip him, and then i'm gonna whip you for not teaching him any manners." The guy goes "you think so huh?" Pop goes "try me."

For 6 more hours that kid never made a peep or a move and neither did his dad.

[btk108]

I'm actually amused by the thought of Dean whipping Leroy's kids' *** then whipping Leroy's *** when Leroy comes over to complain. Then whipping Leroy's dad's ***.

:D

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm actually amused by the thought of Dean whipping Leroy's kids' *** then whipping Leroy's *** when Leroy comes over to complain. Then whipping Leroy's dad's ***.

You seem angry.

[Frozen Sooner]

You seem angry.

You seem squishy. And kind of guavaish.