Freedomses

[Boarder]

I've been hearing a lot of talk about freedoms being taken away. I got to thinking about it and couldn't come up with any. What freedoms have been taken away? (And, I'm talking about since 1789, not Jan, 2009).

I'm probably just missing some and drawing a blank.

Also, no special reason for the Kerry icon. It just looked lonely.

[My Opinion Matters]

The freedom to repress the freedoms of minorites and women comes to mind.

[My Opinion Matters]

Term limits also. If I still want to vote for Harry Truman, who is the Constitution to tell me that I can't?

[NormanPride]

I think the phone tapping and surveillance stuff is what people were mad about. That and GITMO.

Really, people just prefer not to know about it. We liked it better when we could do crazy **** and not get called on it like back in the Cold War.

[StoopTroup]

Your freedom to take away the vote from people who won't vote a strict Republican Ticket.

Pay attention!

[StoopTroup]

Your Freedom to give Fox power to decided what view points you should have and to make sure you teach your children that only Republicans are good Christians.

I FEAR FOR MY COUNTRY!

http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/beck-crying.jpg

[StoopTroup]

Boarder...I don't think Kerry is as lonely right now as Al Gore. Things are warming up as they cool off for him....lol

[StoopTroup]

Do you need a fishing license to go noodling?

If you do....you've lost your right to wrestle huge catfish to the death in their own environment too. :D

http://interact.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-platform/files/2009/03/grapplers.jpg

[StoopTroup]

I think I know what happened to Jesse James penis. :D

http://www.writers-free-reference.com/noodling.jpg

[StoopTroup]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/photogalleries/noodling/images/primary/noddling2.jpg

[StoopTroup]

IMO more women should noodle.

[StoopTroup]

http://otway.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/angie-fox-noodling-3.jpg

[StoopTroup]

http://a.espncdn.com/winnercomm/outdoors/fishing/ii/thumb_IMG_1204a.jpg

[sooner59]

This is the most redneck thread I have ever seen on here. Its awesome, lol. Didn't start that way, but this thread got jacked something serious......or in Al Gore speak......SUPER SERIAL!

[yermom]

I think the phone tapping and surveillance stuff is what people were mad about. That and GITMO.

Really, people just prefer not to know about it. We liked it better when we could do crazy **** and not get called on it like back in the Cold War.

i don't think the Teabaggers care about that stuff

it's the freedom to not have insurance and not be taxed or something

maybe it's the freedom from insurance do to pre-existing conditions that they really miss

i don't know

[Leroy Lizard]

This is the most redneck thread I have ever seen on here. Its awesome, lol. Didn't start that way, but this thread got jacked something serious......or in Al Gore speak......SUPER SERIAL!

Thank God for that, because the sniveling was starting to become severe.

[Sooner in Tampa]

The freedom to repress the freedoms of minorites and women comes to mind.

:rolleyes:

[NormanPride]

i don't think the Teabaggers care about that stuff

it's the freedom to not have insurance and not be taxed or something

maybe it's the freedom from insurance do to pre-existing conditions that they really miss

i don't know

Ah yes, that too. You get fined if you don't have insurance, right? That's... preposterous.

[delhalew]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

How about the right to grow wheat for personal use.
All hail the interstate commerce clause, the catch all of gub'ment pwnage.

[delhalew]

For those who don't get it. You violate the interstate commerce clause by not conducting commerce...uhh yeah.

[Leroy Lizard]

Ah yes, that too. You get fined if you don't have insurance, right? That's... preposterous.

Within one year we have set the stage for removing of a lot of freedoms. Up until now, I didn't have to buy insurance if I didn't want to. In a few years, I will have to. But wait until even later, when the government creates its own insurance plan and makes it the only viable option. Kiss the freedom to choose your doctor goodbye.

Consider education. In the past, a community could decide for itself what it wanted its children taught. NCLB comes along and mandates that states create content standards and test on those standards. Now, we have created national standards and forced states to adopt them. Currently, they are planning national assessments which will be in place in about a year. So the freedom a community used to enjoy, educating according to its own needs, will completely vanish.

And this stage was set in just one year. Wait until a district is forced by the federal government to fire teachers it doesn't want to fire, or teachers are forced to teach a socialist curriculum. It's coming.

[yermom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

How about the right to grow wheat for personal use.
All hail the interstate commerce clause, the catch all of gub'ment pwnage.

yep, that's pretty ****ty

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm pretty impressed that our current President in one year has managed to travel back in time and pass No Child Left Behind.

[NormanPride]

It's his recent No Child Left Back To The Future crap that really hacks me off.

[delhalew]

I'm pretty impressed that our current President in one year has managed to travel back in time and pass No Child Left Behind.

That one is f'd up as well. Education wasn't far enough under the thumb of the state...let's double down.

[delhalew]

yep, that's pretty ****ty

The classics never get old.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm unaware of any Constitutional right to grow wheat. That must be in the penumbras and emanations. ;)

Wickard's a difficult case to swallow sometimes. Goes back to Gibbons v. Ogden, though. If it touches on interstate commerce, then it's interstate commerce and Congress has the power to regulate. Read Heart of Atlanta and see how the reasoning is extended to discrimination.

[Boarder]

If Wickard happened today, would it be reasonable to assume that people would claim that their right to have personal gardens for personal consumption would soon be taken away?

[Frozen Sooner]

Wickard has been reaffirmed pretty recently. I think the case is Gonzales v. Raich. I know the name Gonzales was involved. Affirmed that the Commerce Power runs to regulation of personal-use intrastate marijuana.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm pretty impressed that our current President in one year has managed to travel back in time and pass No Child Left Behind.

Did I say or even suggest that Obama passed NCLB?

[JohnnyMack]

Did I say or even suggest that Obama passed NCLB?

I can kind of see that you at least inferred it here:


Consider education. In the past, a community could decide for itself what it wanted its children taught. NCLB comes along and mandates that states create content standards and test on those standards. Now, we have created national standards and forced states to adopt them. Currently, they are planning national assessments which will be in place in about a year. So the freedom a community used to enjoy, educating according to its own needs, will completely vanish.

And this stage was set in just one year. Wait until a district is forced by the federal government to fire teachers it doesn't want to fire, or teachers are forced to teach a socialist curriculum. It's coming.

Maybe you just got sloppy in your latest rambling diatribe.

[Frozen Sooner]

Consider education. In the past, a community could decide for itself what it wanted its children taught. NCLB comes along and mandates that states create content standards and test on those standards. Now, we have created national standards and forced states to adopt them. Currently, they are planning national assessments which will be in place in about a year. So the freedom a community used to enjoy, educating according to its own needs, will completely vanish.

And this stage was set in just one year.

Yes. You did. Unless on planet Leroy Lizard one year is longer than 365 days or something.

[delhalew]

What we use the commerce claus for is not what the founders had in mind. That is why the supreme court can lick my butt.

[Boarder]

What we use the commerce claus for is not what the founders had in mind. That is why the supreme court can lick my butt.
Well, to be fair, slave trafficking is not as big nowadays.

[Frozen Sooner]

We know more about what the Founders intended with the Commerce Clause through actual study of what the Founders were doing in contrast with the Articles of Confederation than some rando on the internet will ever know. Plus, that very same Constitution gives us the power to interpret the words of the Founders as explained by CJ Marshall. Therefore, said internet rando can lick our collective butts. Particularly Marshall's.

:D

[NormanPride]

So does this mean if prostitution becomes legal in more than just Nevada that me and baj would be "touching on interstate commerce" and could be regulated by congress? That's weird.

[Ike]

If Wickard happened today, would it be reasonable to assume that people would claim that their right to have personal gardens for personal consumption would soon be taken away?

Would there be any other way Fox News could interpret such a decision?

[delhalew]

Because making your own bread from your own wheat is anti-american.

[Ike]

Because making your own bread from your own wheat is anti-american.


And do the limits that begat that case still exist?

[Bourbon St Sooner]

As long as I can still pee in my own backyard, what other freedom do I need?

[Frozen Sooner]

As long as I can still pee in my own backyard, what other freedom do I need?

My freedom to stab people in the eyes over the internet has been severely curtailed.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yes. You did. Unless on planet Leroy Lizard one year is longer than 365 days or something.

Whatever. From my previous posts where I detailed even those who authored NCLB, it is pretty clear that I know when it was drafted.

[olevetonahill]

And do the limits that begat that case still exist?

Not real sure about that wheat dealio
But back when I was living and working in the wheat producing area of Oklahoma
Seemed Like the Feds gave a subsidy er something if a Farmer let his fields sit . Then I seem to member a deal about He had to get permission er some such to grow the dayum stuff .

I aint a Farmer , hell I cant even raise my own pot with out it dying on me .:mad:
But I think that was the deal

[SunnySooner]

Although I am a big fan of various forms of noodles, I can state with full certainty that I will NEVER "noodle". Just wanted to get that on the record. Have a great night.

[afs]

I've lost the freedom to not wear my seatbelt without fear of reprisal.

[OhU1]

We've lost freedom of religion. My bible says "be fruitful and multiply" - yet if I do so the State will force me to pay child support taking away my money, licenses, and threatening to put me in jail!

[olevetonahill]

Although I am a big fan of various forms of noodles, I can state with full certainty that I will NEVER "noodle". Just wanted to get that on the record. Have a great night.

You so cute . If YOU ever need a noodle they be 100 guys standing in line :D :hot:

[olevetonahill]

I've lost the freedom to not wear my seatbelt without fear of reprisal.

Thats another law they slipped by us .
Remember when it passed ? No PoPo will stop ya fer it, Just ticket ya if he stops ya fer something else and ya aint wearing it ?
Yea right .

[yermom]

i never heard that.

that law is a bunch of ****

[delhalew]

And do the limits that begat that case still exist?

That's debatable, but the key is, the court feels that you can be regulated under the commerce clause for a lack of commerce. That is wrong. No matter how many decisions they roll in behind it...it is still wrong.

[Leroy Lizard]

Thats another law they slipped by us .
Remember when it passed ? No PoPo will stop ya fer it, Just ticket ya if he stops ya fer something else and ya aint wearing it ?
Yea right .

That's how stupid the population gets. They don't realize that whenever government opens up another revenue stream, they will take full advantage.

When we started with income tax, the top rate was 7%. Now it is, what, 42%?

The estate tax started at 5%. Now it's 55%.

Essentially, politicians stay up at night trying to find creative ways to take your money.

[soonerloyal]

What I embrace...The models and frameworks from which we are graced with freedoms. Writ of Habeas Corpus. Posse Comitatus Act.

The true blows against freedoms: the above being negated in the name of "safety".

What I mourn...One of the greatest mistakes and destruction of sane legal precedent by the highest court of our land, the decision in "Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission".

And the people who are responsible for the loss of such freedoms.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

So does this mean if prostitution becomes legal in more than just Nevada that me and baj would be "touching on interstate commerce" and could be regulated by congress? That's weird.

So are you saying you pay badg to get some? Or she pays you?

[Crucifax Autumn]

She pays him to take care of it on his own. :P

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Hell, I do that for free.

[Leroy Lizard]

What I embrace...The models and frameworks from which we are graced with freedoms. Writ of Habeas Corpus. Posse Comitatus Act.

The true blows against freedoms: the above being negated in the name of "safety".

What I mourn...One of the greatest mistakes and destruction of sane legal precedent by the highest court of our land, the decision in "Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission".

And the people who are responsible for the loss of such freedoms.

What's the connection between that Supreme Court decision and your concerns about freedom?

[Boarder]

So, basically, there haven't been many freedoms taken away at all. Several restricted, though. And one that has gotten the most gripe (lately) is Citizens United, where freedoms (to the corporations) were given and most thought they should have been restricted.

[Leroy Lizard]

So, basically, there haven't been many freedoms taken away at all. Several restricted, though. And one that has gotten the most gripe (lately) is Citizens United, where freedoms (to the corporations) were given and most thought they should have been restricted.

If you restrict a freedom, it's no longer a freedom. More like a privilege.

I'm not so sure I disagree with the SCOTUS about the Citizens United case. I can see it both ways. I think the effects will be potentially harmful, but that should not be a consideration.

[John Kochtoston]

Wickard has been reaffirmed pretty recently. I think the case is Gonzales v. Raich. I know the name Gonzales was involved. Affirmed that the Commerce Power runs to regulation of personal-use intrastate marijuana.

Oh, yeah, and who was it that wrote a concurrence saying it was A-OK for the federal government to use the ICC to regulate purely intrastate commerce? That flaming liberal activist judge, Antonin Scalia.

[btk108]

I've lost the freedom to not wear my seatbelt without fear of reprisal.

yah..well, you might have lost that freedom, but you shoulda been wearing it anyway.

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh, yeah, and who was it that wrote a concurrence saying it was A-OK for the federal government to use the ICC to regulate purely intrastate commerce? That flaming liberal activist judge, Antonin Scalia.

Well, to be fair, he said that it was OK so long as the regulation of the intrastate commerce had to be necessary so as not to undercut a valid regulation of interstate commerce.

[Leroy Lizard]

So he can still oppose Obamacare.

BTW, it really doesn't matter, because the feds will always win. If turned down by the SCOTUS, they would simply say "We're going to confiscate your money (taxes) and only give it back to your state if it goes along with our plans."

And people still haven't caught on.

[StoopTroup]

I can see it both ways.

Now there's a shocking statement....lol :pop:

[Fraggle145]

i don't think the Teabaggers care about that stuff

it's the freedom to not have insurance and not be taxed or something

maybe it's the freedom from insurance do to pre-existing conditions that they really miss

i don't know

I want my freedom to not wear my seatbelt back. :mad:

[Stitch Face]

More girl pics in the water plz k thx

[lexsooner]

I've been hearing a lot of talk about freedoms being taken away. I got to thinking about it and couldn't come up with any. What freedoms have been taken away? (And, I'm talking about since 1789, not Jan, 2009).

I'm probably just missing some and drawing a blank.

Also, no special reason for the Kerry icon. It just looked lonely.

That's because you dabble with the truth and not perception. Nothing has changed in the last year or so, except the paranoia of some folks.

[John Kochtoston]

Well, to be fair, he said that it was OK so long as the regulation of the intrastate commerce had to be necessary so as not to undercut a valid regulation of interstate commerce.

Translation: Umm, drugs are bad, mkay? So, regulate away.

[OUMallen]

I've been hearing a lot of talk about freedoms being taken away. I got to thinking about it and couldn't come up with any. What freedoms have been taken away? (And, I'm talking about since 1789, not Jan, 2009).

I'm probably just missing some and drawing a blank.

Also, no special reason for the Kerry icon. It just looked lonely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

[delhalew]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

Eminate domain is a cluster****.

[Harry Beanbag]

As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air—however slight—lest we become unwilling victims of the darkness..

[delhalew]

.

There you go using your head again. Get ready for the bull**** tsunami headed your way.

[Frozen Sooner]

Translation: I hate hippies.


Fixed. :D

[John Kochtoston]

Eminate domain is a cluster****.


Maybe, but it's one that's existed since the Constitution was ratified.

[delhalew]

Maybe, but it's one that's existed since the Constitution was ratified.

You're right. Would you, however, say it is abused badly.

[John Kochtoston]

You're right. Would you, however, say it is abused badly.

I'd say property owners often get less that full value for their property, however, that's nothing new from Kelo. I'd also say Kelo makes it easier for large companies to get property for less than full value. I'd further say Kelo can be expressly rejected by state legislatures and has been in some states. Don't like Kelo? Take it up with your state rep.

Whether any of this constitutes eminent domain being "abused badly" is in the eye of the beholder.

[Stitch Face]

Eminent Domain wouldn't be so unnerving if it were strictly reserved for "pubic" use, e.g. parks and highways and shiz. Now that the gubment can appropriate private property to give to other private entities who can then use it for profit opens up the possibilities for pretty extreme levels of cronyism.

[StoopTroup]

What about my freedom to unionize the walmarts?

They took that from all of us.





;)

[Leroy Lizard]

What about my freedom to unionize the walmarts?

They took that from all of us.





;)

The act of unionization takes freedom away from the store owners.

[Leroy Lizard]

Now there's a shocking statement....lol :pop:

Oh, look who's talking.

But let me offer this: Make some whiskey in your backyard and tell the feds, then tell us if you haven't lost any freedoms.

[Crucifax Autumn]

And yet you argue that the prohibition of hemp is perfectly ok. You don't even have to manufacture anything, you just pull a bud off a plant and you are then a criminal likely to serve jailtime...over a plant...that's safer than alcohol...that grows naturally...that is known to reduce the risk of cancer and alleviate the symptoms of 100s of medical conditions...give me a break.

Any of you who live in Nevada and are registered to vote, please seek out a petition gatherer and sign the petition to get marijuana legalized and taxed here. If you can't find a petition person, PM me and I'll be glad to meet you and get your signature. If you aren't registered to vote, I'll bring a form for you.

[StoopTroup]

Oh, look who's talking.

But let me offer this: Make some whiskey in your backyard and tell the feds, then tell us if you haven't lost any freedoms.

I only drink whiskey at tailgates. Dean is a very bad influence. :D

[StoopTroup]

The act of unionization takes freedom away from the store owners.

By Store Owners you mean the Waltons? Or do you mean the ones the Waltons put out of business or the ones that are starting to spring up again because many of us hate teh Walmarts?

[StoopTroup]

And yet you argue that the prohibition of hemp is perfectly ok. You don't even have to manufacture anything, you just pull a bud off a plant and you are then a criminal likely to serve jailtime...over a plant...that's safer than alcohol...that grows naturally...that is known to reduce the risk of cancer and alleviate the symptoms of 100s of medical conditions...give me a break.

Any of you who live in Nevada and are registered to vote, please seek out a petition gatherer and sign the petition to get marijuana legalized and taxed here. If you can't find a petition person, PM me and I'll be glad to meet you and get your signature. If you aren't registered to vote, I'll bring a form for you.

Oklahoma has a tax stamp for MJ. I don't suggest anyone actually buy one though. It's purpose seems very confusing and I don't even smoke pot.