Interesting Article re Barack's Illinois senate race

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Going back to '04. I don't remember reading/hearing much about the race, at the time: http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

[Harry Beanbag]

:pop:

[tommieharris91]

What is the most interesting thing you have seen done with bacon?

[SCOUT]

What is the most interesting thing you have seen done with bacon?

Bacon wrapped stuffed jalapenos. I know it isn't the most interesting thing in the world but it is good eating. There was a guy at the Texas State Fair selling stainless steel, football shaped, Oklahoma jalapeno stands for the grill. Using that, they are crazy easy to make and they are delish!

[Ike]

Going back to '04. I don't remember reading/hearing much about the race, at the time: http://web.archive.org/web/20040627142700/eastandard.net/headlines/news26060403.htm

I remember that, as I was in IL at the time. It was a pretty big deal, but IIRC, Ryan was a slight underdog in the race to begin with. When that happened, the republicans basically threw in the towel and ran Alan Keyes against him. The state repubs even tried to get Ditka to run against him...but he said no dice.


Or were you referring to the headline? Obviously some paper I've never heard of probably has the inside scoop on that.

[Boarder]

See, I never liked those vertical stands. When you eat the whole stuffed jalapeno, the stuffing always comes out the end. When you slice the pepper lengthwise, fill, and wrap with bacon, you are able to cook them and eat with no loss of stuffing.

Also, we planted some Red Jamaican Scotch Bonnets this year. I plan on making them into stuffed peppers, except that I'll call them Jamaican Fire Bombs instead of poppers.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

heh

[sooner59]

Meh.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ap.asp

[yermom]

See, I never liked those vertical stands. When you eat the whole stuffed jalapeno, the stuffing always comes out the end. When you slice the pepper lengthwise, fill, and wrap with bacon, you are able to cook them and eat with no loss of stuffing.

Also, we planted some Red Jamaican Scotch Bonnets this year. I plan on making them into stuffed peppers, except that I'll call them Jamaican Fire Bombs instead of poppers.

are you trying to kill someone? :eek:

[yermom]

Meh.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ap.asp

what really matters is that Obama is a Muslim/communist plant tearing down the country from the inside, right?

snopes doesn't change that :D

[TUSooner]

Even though
This message is hidden because RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone! is on your ignore list.
I JUST KNEW it would be another load of parrot droppings, and I couldn't resist confirming it. The Great Squawker will believe anything and post anything remotely anti-Obama. And if it's not true, it SHOULD be, so we should all believe it anyway.

[My Opinion Matters]

nm

[NormanPride]

I know, tinypic does amazing things with bacon.

[soonerboomer93]

tinybaconpic?

[JohnnyMack]

I like to fry up some bacon, pat down all the grease and then crumble it into pancake batter.

[sooner59]

what really matters is that Obama is a Muslim/communist plant tearing down the country from the inside, right?

snopes doesn't change that :D

Oh yeah. nm...:rolleyes:

[swardboy]

I blame Jack Ryan's wife....

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I blame Jack Ryan's wife....What are you saying? If she had run for senate instead of her hubby, there could have been 2 aliens running for senate in illinois?

[Sooner04]

I tried to telephone,
they said you were not home,
that's a lie......

[Pricetag]

Even though
I JUST KNEW it would be another load of parrot droppings, and I couldn't resist confirming it. The Great Squawker will believe anything and post anything remotely anti-Obama. And if it's not true, it SHOULD be, so we should all believe it anyway.
http://www.rightfieldbleachers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/harry-doyle.jpg
Haywood's a convicted felon, isn't he? Well, he should be.

[TopDawg]

I think 04's trying to tell us something.

[John Kochtoston]

I blame Jack Ryan's wife....

Jeri Ryan is to be blamed for nothing, except the deaths of many kittens.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm just amazed that with all the endorsements and publicity Jack Ryan gets from Tom Clancy and Hollywood he couldn't get past a simple sex scandal.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

"R", baby. They can't do those things and escape drastic consequences.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yeah, but Jack Ryan defeated international terrorists, communist Russians, and so much more and he can't even get a Senate seat?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Yeah, but Jack Ryan defeated international terrorists, communist Russians, and so much more and he can't even get a Senate seat?He took on the "D's", and their Drive-by media. Fat chance for him!

[Scott D]

Yeah, but Jack Ryan defeated international terrorists, communist Russians, and so much more and he can't even get a Senate seat?

probably because he never got that important endorsement from Admiral Greer prior to Greer's passing.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

...post anything remotely anti-Obama. And if it's not true, it SHOULD be...So, if you run for POTUS, and are a Democrat from Kenya, you have a RIGHT to modify your place of birth?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I KNOW you know better than that man. I can totally see your opposition to Obama and a lot of the dems and even agree with a fair amount of it, but the birther shat is ridiculous at this point and pretty well put to bed for all but the crazies.

I actually think that's exactly how they want it too. As long as people are attacking him on silliness he can just ignore it and count on the press and the people to see the wacko-ness of the birther crap. It's the solid policy arguments they want to avoid and chasing a long form birth certificate plays right into their hands.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I KNOW you know better than that man. I can totally see your opposition to Obama and a lot of the dems and even agree with a fair amount of it, but the birther shat is ridiculous at this point and pretty well put to bed for all but the crazies.

I actually think that's exactly how they want it too. As long as people are attacking him on silliness he can just ignore it and count on the press and the people to see the wacko-ness of the birther crap. It's the solid policy arguments they want to avoid and chasing a long form birth certificate plays right into their hands.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I KNOW you know better than that man. I can totally see your opposition to Obama and a lot of the dems and even agree with a fair amount of it, but the birther shat is ridiculous at this point and pretty well put to bed for all but the crazies.

I actually think that's exactly how they want it too. As long as people are attacking him on silliness he can just ignore it and count on the press and the people to see the wacko-ness of the birther crap. It's the solid policy arguments they want to avoid and chasing a long form birth certificate plays right into their hands.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I KNOW you know better than that man. I can totally see your opposition to Obama and a lot of the dems and even agree with a fair amount of it, but the birther shat is ridiculous at this point and pretty well put to bed for all but the crazies.

I actually think that's exactly how they want it too. As long as people are attacking him on silliness he can just ignore it and count on the press and the people to see the wacko-ness of the birther crap. It's the solid policy arguments they want to avoid and chasing a long form birth certificate plays right into their hands.We all know that he won't be removed from office because of where he was born. They don't engage in solid policy arguments, either. The dems just cram socialism, fascism and totalitarianism down our throats and keep on keepin' on. Do I think he was born in the USA? no. can democrats get away with just about anything they want? sure.

[King Crimson]

The dems just cram socialism, fascism and totalitarianism down our throats and keep on keepin' on. Do I think he was born in the USA? no. can democrats get away with just about anything they want? sure.

yeah, YeAH, YEAH dog. you go get em.

evil bastards. all purpose scapegoats.

[GottaHavePride]

Do I think he was born in the USA? no. If your parents are US citizens you can be born on the ****ing MOON and still run for President. Get over it.

[JohnnyMack]

If your parents are US citizens you can be born on the ****ing MOON and still run for President. Get over it.

Most days i'm not so sure he wasn't.

[GottaHavePride]

That's beside the point. ;)

[Crucifax Autumn]

We all know that he won't be removed from office because of where he was born. They don't engage in solid policy arguments, either. The dems just cram socialism, fascism and totalitarianism down our throats and keep on keepin' on. Do I think he was born in the USA? no. can democrats get away with just about anything they want? sure.

Right up until the end you had arguments I accept and feel are appropriate. The birther shat just makes people sound petty and silly like the people who tried to say the Bush Cheney election was illegal since they both lived in texass. Just not the kinda thing that comes off as useful debate.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Right up until the end you had arguments I accept and feel are appropriate. The birther shat just makes people sound petty and silly like the people who tried to say the Bush Cheney election was illegal since they both lived in texass. Just not the kinda thing that comes off as useful debate.Birther-Smirther! If he wanted to produce the original certificate, I think with him being the POTUS and all, he could get that done. At this point it's not really an issue, since there's NO WAY that is going to happen. If he was really born in Hawaii, wonderful for him, and the USA, srsly. It makes zilch difference whether anyone thinks he's really eligible to be president or not, since he's a democrat, and the media won't pursue the issue.

[tommieharris91]

Chicken bacon pizza with alfredo sauce is suprisingly tasty.

[JohnnyMack]

Chicken bacon pizza with alfredo sauce is suprisingly tasty.

Hideaway!!!! Paradise Pie is epic.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Birther-Smirther! If he wanted to produce the original certificate, I think with him being the POTUS and all, he could get that done. At this point it's not really an issue, since there's NO WAY that is going to happen. If he was really born in Hawaii, wonderful for him, and the USA, srsly. It makes zilch difference whether anyone thinks he's really eligible to be president or not, since he's a democrat, and the media won't pursue the issue.

I just think the energy that's been spent worrying about the birth certificate would be better spent fighting the policies and gearing up for the next election instead of wasting it on something that the majority of people think has been settled. He's done plenty of things that would make for better ammo against the democratic party.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I just think the energy that's been spent worrying about the birth certificate would be better spent fighting the policies and gearing up for the next election instead of wasting it on something that the majority of people think has been settled. He's done plenty of things that would make for better ammo against the democratic party.You don't think I complain enough about the socialism, fascism, and totalitarianism that characterize this regime? Besides, I'm not really complaining about where he was probably born. It's just important to remember from time to time.

[JohnnyMack]

Fascism and Socialism aren't the same thing. Not even close really. But whatever helps you feed the imaginary boogeyman in your brain.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Fascism and Socialism aren't the same thing. Not even close really. But whatever helps you feed the imaginary boogeyman in your brain.Did someone say they were the same?Shirley you weren't talking to me.

[sooner59]

We talkin about politics or food? Either way, I'm gettin hungry.

[Crucifax Autumn]

You don't think I complain enough about the socialism, fascism, and totalitarianism that characterize this regime? Besides, I'm not really complaining about where he was probably born. It's just important to remember from time to time.

When you talk about those things I'm cool with it, even the times I disagree. In fact, I actually encourage you to do it and do it all you want. Sensible debate and dialogue is great. Silly **** on the level of weekly world news just doesn't fly with me, particularly this birther crap. I'd be willing to bet that half the birthers can't produce more than 1 real birth certificate.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Well, it's not really important where someone was born, anyway, huh? He didn't have any say re where he was born. What is important is what he does as president...wait.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Now see? That's what I mean. What he does is absolutely something we should be taking up sides to fight about, whether we are for or against what's going on.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Now see? That's what I mean. What he does is absolutely something we should be taking up sides to fight about, whether we are for or against what's going on.haha! I get it.

[jkjsooner]

Birther-Smirther! If he wanted to produce the original certificate, I think with him being the POTUS and all, he could get that done. At this point it's not really an issue, since there's NO WAY that is going to happen. If he was really born in Hawaii, wonderful for him, and the USA, srsly. It makes zilch difference whether anyone thinks he's really eligible to be president or not, since he's a democrat, and the media won't pursue the issue.

He did produce it.

[soonerhubs]

Hideaway!!!! Paradise Pie is epic.

I concur!

[Scott D]

as long as we all realize that Jack Ryan's turn at President will come after some upset Japanese Pilot flies his plane into the Capitol building during a State of the Union address

[BudSooner]

as long as we all realize that Jack Ryan's turn at President will come after some upset Japanese Pilot flies his plane into the Capitol building during a State of the Union address

Heh, good book.

And dude, It is time to get over it, he's president, he's not stepping down due to a bunch of people pissing and moaning over his birthplace, he's not being impeached. GET OVER IT.

Move on.


Fight the policies, fight the government spending,fight whatever is wrong for the country but dude....let this **** go.

It.
Is.
Useless.

[ndpruitt03]

Fascism and Socialism aren't the same thing. Not even close really. But whatever helps you feed the imaginary boogeyman in your brain.

They aren't really that far from each other as you think. Both are leftest ideologies. The Nazis who were the leading fascist were National SOCIALISTS

[Crucifax Autumn]

First off the Nazis were very anti communist, despite cleverly calling themselves socialists.

Joseph Goebbels was quoted thusly:


The march on Rome was a signal, a sign of storm for liberal-democracy. It is the first attempt to destroy the world of the liberal-democratic spirit[...] which started in 1789 with the storm on the Bastille and conquered one country after another in violent revolutionary upheavals, to let... the nations go under in Marxism, democracy, anarchy and class warfare...

Fascism:


a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.


Socialism:


any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

[ndpruitt03]

Basically the difference is a dictator owns every thing, or a government owns everything. I don't really like either one.

[ndpruitt03]

Maybe leftists is the wrong word because not all left wingers want a big government, most of them today do but not all of them.

Both want a more powerful government ruling over everyone. It's just the way they got about getting that power. It's a debate going on in Europe but it shouldn't be a debate going on here because we checked out of that system 250 years ago.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Forgot a VERY big difference:

Socialism is an economic system.

Fascism is a political ideology.

[ndpruitt03]

Forgot a VERY big difference:

Socialism is an economic system.

Fascism is a political ideology.

Socialism has become an economic system because most of Europe embraced it. America is starting to embrace it politically. But the people sure as hell wouldn't if they knew what it was.

[Crucifax Autumn]

This got me thinking, so I went ahead and extended socialism to its logical conclusion of cimmunism and compared THAT to facsism and came up with this:


"Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision making process in both the political and economic spheres of life. In modern usage, communism is often used to refer to the policies of the various which were authoritarian governments that had ownership of all the communist states means of production and centrally planned economies.



Fascism is a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism with a corporatist economic system. Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state. Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement. Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalism and liberal democracies for its creation, and accuses communists of exploiting the concept. Fascism fashioned itself as the "complete opposite of Marxian Socialism" by rejecting the economic and material conception of history, the fundamental belief of fascism being that human beings are motivated by glory and heroism rather than economic motives, in contrast to the worldview of capitalism and socialism.


So really they are complete opposites. Fascism is more of a hierarchical society as communism is a completely equal society.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Whew!

Reading all these political arguments made me thirsty!

http://www.brandweek.com/bw/photos/stylus/31390-Booty-Sweat_drink.jpg

Good thing I got me some Booty Sweat back in Da Nang!

[ndpruitt03]

You are right if you are talking about European politics, Crucifix. Because Europe is one big government or the other. That's not the choice in America.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm talking about the actual meaning of the words and philosophies.

German fascism did borrow some ideology from the "left" but they also took huge chunks from the "right". You can compare them all you want, but tyhere are very significant differences whether it's "here" or "there".

[ndpruitt03]

If you think that fascism or socialism is about big government vs small government you are kidding yourself. It's just different sides of the same coin. The debate going on in America is about big government vs small government. Over the past 20 years or so the leaders have all been big government guys. The tea party gives those that are more toward the constitution hope.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

This got me thinking, so I went ahead and extended socialism to its logical conclusion of cimmunism and compared THAT to facsism and came up with this:

Interesting. That definition of fascism is closer to present day China or the former USSR / East Bloc countries than the definition of communism.

BTW, If you want to read a really interesting book on the early days of the USSR try Harvest of Sorrows (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0195051807) by Robert Conquest. There are a few chapters that are almost as much fun to read as Leviticus but it's pretty obvious after reading it, the Russians were never going to succeed.

[Crucifax Autumn]

You're the one that brought big vs. small up. I'm talking about the actual meanings of the words and the way such systems work.

Continuing to interchange all the words and use one to define the other is counterproductive and just results in a big mess and an unfocused argument.

Technically everything from the fire department to the post office are socialist entities in that they are public owned services. THAT socialism is in NO WAY related to or even similar to fascism or, for that matter, communism.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Interesting. That definition of fascism is closer to present day China or the former USSR / East Bloc countries than the definition of communism.



This is true, particularly of modern China. All of those you list though fit the Fascist definition thanks to the peopel in charge being power hungry control freaks. Marx would turn over in his grave if he heard ANY of those governments referred to as Marxist. Those countries flawed definitions of socialism and communism is the source of all the confusion in this thread IMO.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

This is true, particularly of modern China. All of those you list though fit the Fascist definition thanks to the peopel in charge being power hungry control freaks. Marx would turn over in his grave if he heard ANY of those governments referred to as Marxist. Those countries flawed definitions of socialism and communism is the source of all the confusion in this thread IMO.

But that's where Marx missed (get it. Missed the Marx. Jeeze, I kill me. :D ). The people in power always tend to be power hungry control freaks.

So he might be rolling over in his grave but I contend he's more likely to be slapping his forehead saying "Doh!"

[Crucifax Autumn]

Well said! lol

And that's part of my point. The actual meanings and how they are applied are 2 different things, much like Fascism and Communism are 2 different things. Then people start mixing the definitions, while governments twist them to suit their own selfish needs and viewpoints and you get a large part of this thread, post birther argument.