Oklahoma Militia?

[sooner59]

Apparently it is supported by Tea Party legislators. I don't like it. At all.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia

[SoonerInKCMO]

Blech. I should just move back to Nebraska while I still can.

[Boarder]

State Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, a Republican candidate for governor who has appealed for tea party support, said supporters of a state militia have talked to him, and that he believes the citizen unit would be authorized under the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

The founding fathers "were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren't even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other," Brogdon said. "The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government."

Ok, enough with embarrassing us further. Just freaking stop. Goobers like this scare me way more than any evil government plot.

[Curly Bill]

Can I sign up, even if I live in Texas now?

[sooner59]

The last militia I remember hearing about here involved Tim McVeigh. I know he was bat**** crazy, but these are the things that come to mind when the word "militia" is uttered.

Well, that and a joke:

What do you call an army of lesbians?

Militia Etherage.

[Harry Beanbag]

Ok, enough with embarrassing us further. Just freaking stop. Goobers like this scare me way more than any evil government plot.


I realize he embarrasses you, I don't even know who he is other than the lefties hate him, but what he said is actually correct.

[Boarder]

I agree that is is factually correct. I would hope that a candidate for governor would realize that it is important to distance his or herself from such extremists. Now, it is possible that Brogdon did distance himself and that it just wasn't reported.

But, that's not who I meant was embarrassing the state. I was talking about the people calling for the militia in the first place.

[delhalew]

I realize he embarrasses you, I don't even know who he is other than the lefties hate him, but what he said is actually correct.

At least the guy has read the second ammendment. Maybe he read the rest of them as well.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Just gather up SicEm and all his paintball buddies to fight the feds!

[Harry Beanbag]

But, that's not who I meant was embarrassing the state. I was talking about the people calling for the militia in the first place.

I haven't decided yet. On one hand I support it on the sole basis of individual liberty against oppressive government, but on the other hand, what exactly are they going to be doing? They could be painting themselves into a corner.

[sooner59]

I don't have a problem with the liberty against oppressive government stuff. But like he said.....what are they actually going to be doing? They are going to form a group and arm themselves because they are mad at the government.......why?......in case someone tries to force healthcare on them? Force them to pay their taxes like they are supposed to do by law? I don't get it. It just seems like bad publicity for the state and asking for the government to keep a close eye on them (based on what happened up in Michigan or whatever). Its not like they are going to wage war with the U.S. Military. There are a lot of people who did......ask them how it went.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

We should ask for a fifteen page dissertation of wisdom on the subject from Leroy.

[TUSooner]

As sugggested by others, this all begs the following question, to be answered by neo-militians and all the folks who are arming themselves to the teeth after the last Prez election: Who exactly are y'all planning or expecting to shoot with your arsenals? Federal troops? Any of our wide array of state, local, and federal cops? Hordes of illegal hispanic gardeners and dishwashers? Crack addicts and welfare queens? Chinese or Iranian paratroopers? Nancy Pelosi? Just who exactly is the enemy you're preparing to kill? I own firearms and am willing to use them to protect my home against criminals, but I'm curious about some of y'all who feel the need to be "better equipped." And I want to be out of the way when you decide that all your armor-piercing ammo will go to waste if you don't start using it.

[C&CDean]

I am my own militia. I am armed to the teeth for one reason. To protect my place. If the brown people, the muslims, the messican diswashers, crack addicts, welfare queens, or federal government folks decide to cross the fence and physically take what is mine, then we've got trouble brewing. Stay the **** outta my place, and it's all good.

That being said, I don't know anybody that I'd want to join up with and create a state militia. Who'd be in charge? What would be the mission statement? Do I have to knock out some of my teeth, let a horse kick me in the head, and buy a rebel flag from Sicem to join - cause most of the people willing to go to this length are toothless redneck retards. Or Timothy McVeigh wannabes and I don't want any part of that crowd.

[olevetonahill]

What Dean said
He has such a way with the words.:D

[TUSooner]

What Dean said
He has such a way with the words.:D

Don't he though? :D

[soonerscuba]

I think they should work on getting OK off the gov't dole before starting an armed resistance to something they themselves cannot define.

[lexsooner]

As sugggested by others, this all begs the following question, to be answered by neo-militians and all the folks who are arming themselves to the teeth after the last Prez election: Who exactly are y'all planning or expecting to shoot with your arsenals? Federal troops? Any of our wide array of state, local, and federal cops? Hordes of illegal hispanic gardeners and dishwashers? Crack addicts and welfare queens? Chinese or Iranian paratroopers? Nancy Pelosi? Just who exactly is the enemy you're preparing to kill? I own firearms and am willing to use them to protect my home against criminals, but I'm curious about some of y'all who feel the need to be "better equipped." And I want to be out of the way when you decide that all your armor-piercing ammo will go to waste if you don't start using it.

The subtle truth is they are mostly mad their party lost and is out of power and there is a now a black President. The real irony is these folks probably receive in disproportionate amounts, federal entitlements in some form, like welfare, disability payments, Medicare, etc.

[Okla-homey]

As sugggested by others, this all begs the following question, to be answered by neo-militians and all the folks who are arming themselves to the teeth after the last Prez election: Who exactly are y'all planning or expecting to shoot with your arsenals? Federal troops? Any of our wide array of state, local, and federal cops? Hordes of illegal hispanic gardeners and dishwashers? Crack addicts and welfare queens? Chinese or Iranian paratroopers? Nancy Pelosi? Just who exactly is the enemy you're preparing to kill? I own firearms and am willing to use them to protect my home against criminals, but I'm curious about some of y'all who feel the need to be "better equipped." And I want to be out of the way when you decide that all your armor-piercing ammo will go to waste if you don't start using it.

In truth, most folks who have been stocking up on ammo and various firearms (like me) have not done so to defend themselves from jackbooted gubmint thugs. They've done so because they fear said ammo and firearms may eventually be banned by the gubmint.

The logic being its one thing to outlaw the manufacture and sale of certain things, and quite another to confiscate said things once they have been been legally purchased. The latter would be a herculean task reliant on voluntary turn-ins, particularly because the gubmint does not, by current statute, keep records of firearms or ammunition purchases.

Also, FWIW, modern ammunition, if properly stored in a cool dry place will last indefinitely. Ditto firearms. And in a complete breakdown of social order, as in NOLA immediately in the wake of Katrina on a micro-level, you really need guns.

As to "militias", well sir, I'm a native Oklahoman who will never forget what that goof-ball doosh now-deceased "militia" member perpetrated in OKC.

[Ike]

As the article already mentioned...we already have the National Guard. It would be a waste of taxpayer funds for another state militia that would basically have no mission.

[SoonerInFla]

In truth, most folks who have been stocking up on ammo and various firearms (like me) have not done so to defend themselves from jackbooted gubmint thugs. They've done so because they fear said ammo and firearms may eventually be banned by the gubmint.

The logic being its one thing to outlaw the manufacture and sale of certain things, and quite another to confiscate said things once they have been been legally purchased. The latter would be a herculean task reliant on voluntary turn-ins, particularly because the gubmint does not, by current statute, keep records of firearms or ammunition purchases.

Also, FWIW, modern ammunition, if properly stored in a cool dry place will last indefinitely. Ditto firearms.

As to "militias", well sir, I'm a native Oklahoman who will never forget what that goof-ball doosh now-deceased "militia" member perpetrated in OKC.

Wouldn't it be possible for sane people to form a militia?

I ran across this earlier.

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty". Thomas Jefferson

I wonder if the day may come that we may need to resist.

[olevetonahill]

As the article already mentioned...we already have the National Guard. It would be a waste of taxpayer funds for another state militia that would basically have no mission.

It said "Privately funded" bro

Im to dayum old to be running around trying to play Soldier.
Like Dean said Ill keep My guns for the Defense of My self and my Property:cool:

[Ike]

It said "Privately funded" bro

Im to dayum old to be running around trying to play Soldier.
Like Dean said Ill keep My guns for the Defense of My self and my Property:cool:

Oh it might start as privately funded. But if it is supposed to be a state entity, it won't be long before they are demanding the state chip in...and if there was enough support to create it in the first place, then the state probably will chip in.

<edit> and in the text of the article, I cannot find any mention at all to how it would be proposed to be funded...public or private</edit>

[delhalew]

Would it kill you guys to see the difference between nutballs like McVeigh and what the constitution calls for us all to be apart of.
We are not required to do anything, but stand ready. That is our militia. I don't see the harm in reminding people of that fact.

[yermom]

be ready for what, exactly?

that's the question

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Ready to invade Texas. Duh.

[1890MilesToNorman]

We are getting close to a tipping point, I have never seen people so fed up with the gubmint as they are now. I am glad to report that Maine is well armed as a population and will always be that way. Don't matter to us whether its Moose or Revenuers, the outcome is always the same.

[Fraggle145]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/35754.html


Okla. GOP rebukes tea party 'militia'

By ANDY BARR | 4/13/10 5:59 PM EDT

A group of tea party leaders and Republican state legislators that wants to create a volunteer militia in Oklahoma has no place in the GOP, state Republicans told POLITICO on Tuesday.

The Associated Press has reported that tea party movement leaders and two Republican Oklahoma state lawmakers — Rep. Charles Key and Sen. Randy Brogdon, also a candidate for governor — have discussed forming a militia to defend against what they see as federal infringements on the state’s rights.

In a phone interview, state GOP Chairman Gary Jones said the tea party activists are only talking about forming a militia because “they are trying to make themselves out to be bigger than they are.”

“A lot of these people don’t care about being the majority, they just want a megaphone. They want a voice,” the state GOP chairman said. “Once they get a reporter to cover a story they have a megaphone, and they get pretty loud.”

Jones insisted that Oklahoma Republicans will not follow this “small faction within the party.”

“They’re going to look back and see there are not a whole lot of folks following them in this direction,” he said.

Jones also insisted that the message coming from the activists won’t highjack the GOP’s focus on November. His main concern, the party chairman said, was “getting people elected who will change the way things are in Washington.”

“I’m very pro Second Amendment,” he added, referring to the right to bear arms. “But when you start talking about this, it turns people off."

"Whether it was the Oklahoma City bombing, countless natural disasters like Hurricane Katrina, or combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Oklahoma National Guard has more than proven its mettle. I see no need to create another standing armed force," Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.) added in a statement to POLITICO.

"I am certain that virtually all Oklahomans admire and respect the Oklahoma National Guard, as well as our state and local law enforcement officials. In the past two weeks, I have held several town hall meetings throughout my district and I've heard no one call for the creation of an additional armed force to compete with or replace those we already have," he said.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0410/35754.html#ixzz0l1a2MwqM

[oumartin]

Where do I join?

[Sooner5030]

A volunteer force for a short period may be needed if certain things happen that would result in civil unrest. For example let’s say in the same 3 year period:

-the US defaults on paying back P&I on its debt as borrowers doubt our credit worthiness

-pension crisis

-a second housing dip

-medicare becomes insolvent

-medicaid becomes insolvent

-SS becomes insolvent

Given the increased probability of these events it would be nice if a state had a back-up plan to ensure essential services and protect the public from looters when folks begin to panic.

[GKeeper316]

As the article already mentioned...we already have the National Guard. It would be a waste of taxpayer funds for another state militia that would basically have no mission.

as long as the national guard receives federal funding and is ultimately under the authority of the president, as commander in chief, it isnt really a state militia.

and randy brogdon is guano crazy...

seriously. he wants to establish a state militia... to what end?

is he going to challenge the federal government and its military with one of his own? how will he arm it? what arms will he have access to? what will happen to the ridiculously stupid people who actually think this is a good idea and sign up the first time they are faced with a real stand-off against professional soldiers or law enforcement? my guess is that they will all be dead after 5 minutes of artillery fire or 1 F-18 flyby.

[Okla-homey]

A volunteer force for a short period may be needed if certain things happen that would result in civil unrest. For example let’s say in the same 3 year period:

-the US defaults on paying back P&I on its debt as borrowers doubt our credit worthiness

-pension crisis

-a second housing dip

-medicare becomes insolvent

-medicaid becomes insolvent

-SS becomes insolvent

Given the increased probability of these events it would be nice if a state had a back-up plan to ensure essential services and protect the public from looters when folks begin to panic.

Heck, it wouldn't take any of that. If peoples' plastic stopped working (credit cards or debit cards) there would be rioting from sea to shining sea.

That's another reason I'm stockpiling ammunition. When money isn't available, cartridges can be spent like currency to buy stuff. After all, you can't eat gold coins or jewels, but you can load a cratridge in your gun and kill something you can eat. Yepper, bullets will be like cigarettes in prison - coin of the realm.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Where do I join?www.blacksoxmilitia.com (http://www.zombo.com/)
:D:D

[AggieTool]

The subtle truth is they are mostly mad their party lost and is out of power and there is a now a black President. The real irony is these folks probably receive in disproportionate amounts, federal entitlements in some form, like welfare, disability payments, Medicare, etc.

Word!

No one ever said folks that form militias were the brightest, most honest, and thoughtful people there ever were.:D

The average education is high school or below, the most average description is middle-aged, fat and white, and the average income is less than $50k a year.:mad: :mad:

[sooner59]

Anybody see the Daily Show last night where they made fun of middle-aged fat white guys who carry their gun at their hip everywhere they go all day everyday, making people nervous. It was pretty funny. :D

[Sooner5030]

No one ever said folks that form militias were the brightest, most honest, and thoughtful people there ever were.

Do you realize that your country (while one of the youngest yet strongest) only exist because the less than bright, honest and thoughtful folks rebelled against their British government?

[sooner59]

Do you realize that your country (while one of the youngest yet strongest) only exist because the less than bright, honest and thoughtful folks rebelled against their British government?

Well, it doesn't take a genius to realize you don't really like an oppressive church-ran government. However, I don't know that they were any less bright, honest, or thoughtful than the British that were ruling them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make it up the ladder in politics....you just have to know how to lie, cheat, and steal while acting like you care about the people. Or, in some cases like Britain....you are born into it. A lot of people are really smart and have good ideas, but the crooked ones in charge won't listen to them or let them speak. Case in point, Galileo. He told the Church that the universe didn't revolve around them and he received a lifetime sentence of home arrest.

[yermom]

yeah, the damn English were trying to provide healthcare for more people

the bastards got what they deserved

[Sooner5030]

eah, the damn English were trying to provide healthcare for more people

No…they were trying to control a demarcated populace that did not agree with their form of governance. But thanks for the simpleton comparison.

[yermom]

the comparisons between the current situation and what prompted the birth of our country only illustrates how delusional the Teabagger movement really is

[Harry Beanbag]

the comparisons between the current situation and what prompted the birth of our country only illustrates how delusional the Teabagger movement really is

Care to explain?

[Sooner5030]

Yermom,

I am not anti-progressive/conservative/liberal/libertarian just as long as you pay for the government services that you promise to provide.

We have lived a progressive benefit but libertarian tax government for so long that reality awaits us all in the next few years. I suggest you research the zero sum reality of the excess we all have to pay for or else dissolve our current government.

There are real folks we owe this money to and when they decide not to invest in our government we will no longer be able to borrow to support it.

[yermom]

Care to explain?

which part?

[texas bandman]

I don't even think that the Teabaggers know what the Boston Tea Party was about!?! It was about taxation without representation . Since we are a representative democracy these so called patriots were in fact represented by a duly elected government...I wish they would STFU and go back in the woodwork where they belong.

[Harry Beanbag]

which part?

Um, the part I quoted I guess. :confused:

[Harry Beanbag]

I don't even think that the Teabaggers know what the Boston Tea Party was about!?! It was about taxation without representation . Since we are a representative democracy these so called patriots were in fact represented by a duly elected government...I wish they would STFU and go back in the woodwork where they belong.


Personally, I think the bolded part is extremely questionable these days. Unless you're a lobbyist or big time contributor that is.

[yermom]

unless you challenge the validity of the elections between 2006 and now, i don't see how you can complain about that

[Harry Beanbag]

unless you challenge the validity of the elections between 2006 and now, i don't see how you can complain about that


I don't question the elections, I question the behavior of the dirtbags once they get elected.

[JohnnyMack]

I don't question the elections, I question the behavior of the dirtbags once they get elected.

Silly you for thinking that it's only after they get elected that they start acting like dirtbags.

[yermom]

Yermom,

I am not anti-progressive/conservative/liberal/libertarian just as long as you pay for the government services that you promise to provide.

We have lived a progressive benefit but libertarian tax government for so long that reality awaits us all in the next few years. I suggest you research the zero sum reality of the excess we all have to pay for or else dissolve our current government.

There are real folks we owe this money to and when they decide not to invest in our government we will no longer be able to borrow to support it.

where was all the outrage when this was happening under Bush? it's not like it's a new thing

[GKeeper316]

Do you realize that your country (while one of the youngest yet strongest) only exist because the less than bright, honest and thoughtful folks rebelled against their British government?

theres a very large difference between minutemen standing up for the no taxation without representation philosophy, and attempting to cast off or overthrow a legitimately elected government.

not to mention during the revolutionary war, both sides were fairly equally armed (muskets and cannons). nowadays if you think any "militia" armed only with deer rifles and .357s stands a chance against the best trained and equipped military the world has ever known, well, you are equally as delusional as the morons that think forming a militia is a good idea.

[Sooner5030]

where was all the outrage when this was happening under Bush? it's not like it's a new thing

It was posted and talked about plenty.

For me here: http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=westmall&Number=5608380&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=Sooner%20in%20Korea&Match=Username&Searchpage=6&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=5608380

[yermom]

I don't question the elections, I question the behavior of the dirtbags once they get elected.

well, that's why we have elections every few years

it's not like i like everything the government has been doing, but i've yet to see anything even close to warranting an uprising that doesn't involve the ballot box

[Sooner5030]

you are equally as delusional as the morons that think forming a militia is a good idea.

You can make your point without being insulting. I have participated in the war of the flea and have experienced a combination of coppery stench of burning flesh, confusion and dry mouth induced vomiting that these less than armed insurgents with (.357) or whatever capability can produce an effective result on a superior force.

[Harry Beanbag]

Silly you for thinking that it's only after they get elected that they start acting like dirtbags.


No, politicians in general are lowlifes severely lacking in integrity.

[delhalew]

Some of you act as though you can't stand that some people in country have principles they will take to their graves.
Ride this gravy train all the way to collapse if you want to. Some day you will be forced to accept a hard truth.
Some of us can take comfort that, at least we won't be surprised.
[Snivelling libtard] "but...but...you never said anything when Bush was in office". Yes we did. You just don't listen to any voice other the one echoing around your own skull.

[Harry Beanbag]

where was all the outrage when this was happening under Bush? it's not like it's a new thing


Seriously? Come on, even the people sucking W off complained about the spending. Entitlement programs as a percentage of budget has been going up since their inception. What is it, 50% now?

[Harry Beanbag]

well, that's why we have elections every few years

it's not like i like everything the government has been doing, but i've yet to see anything even close to warranting an uprising that doesn't involve the ballot box

Neither do I, yet. But it's coming down the current path.

The validity of changing government back to the way it should be through the electoral process in the future is a whole different debate though.

[yermom]

Seriously? Come on, even the people sucking W off complained about the spending. Entitlement programs as a percentage of budget has been going up since their inception. What is it, 50% now?

were they threatening to take up arms against the government?


the vast majority of the people that i see complain the loudest about Obama still defend W

[Harry Beanbag]

the vast majority of the people that i see complain the loudest about Obama still defend W

That's to be expected isn't it? Consequently, the vast majority of people that complained the loudest about W are defending Obama.

Ho hum. Defend the Party, not the Constitution, I guess.

[delhalew]

Well I don't "threaten" to take up arms against anybody.
However, the same people who want to defend our boated entitlement laden government are the same ones we have to thank for pediphiles and faux "gangsters" roaming the streets. After all we have to protect our criminals and sick ****s and rehabilitate them and join hands and buy the world a coke...
So yeah, from childhood I have prepared to take up arms against all comers. Be yea a politician with a plastic smile or a crack head who wants my TV, or an ACLU assclown...come get some.

[yermom]

yeah, i'm sure a politician or ACLU assclown are going to come barging through your door.

what planet are you from?

[yermom]

That's to be expected isn't it? Consequently, the vast majority of people that complained the loudest about W are defending Obama.

Ho hum. Defend the Party, not the Constitution, I guess.

i don't have a party. but i don't really see how this is so damaging to the Constitution. if it was such a trampling then the SCOTUS is supposed to intervene, no?

[delhalew]

yeah, i'm sure a politician or ACLU assclown are going to come barging through your door.

what planet are you from?

:D

[JohnnyMack]

Some of you act as though you can't stand that some people in country have principles they will take to their graves.
Ride this gravy train all the way to collapse if you want to. Some day you will be forced to accept a hard truth.
Some of us can take comfort that, at least we won't be surprised.
[Snivelling libtard] "but...but...you never said anything when Bush was in office". Yes we did. You just don't listen to any voice other the one echoing around your own skull.

I do love gravy. Especially with French fries.

[GKeeper316]

Well I don't "threaten" to take up arms against anybody.
However, the same people who want to defend our boated entitlement laden government are the same ones we have to thank for pediphiles and faux "gangsters" roaming the streets. After all we have to protect our criminals and sick ****s and rehabilitate them and join hands and buy the world a coke...
So yeah, from childhood I have prepared to take up arms against all comers. Be yea a politician with a plastic smile or a crack head who wants my TV, or an ACLU assclown...come get some.


just remember, in oklahoma city, we are most likely responsible for the greatest series of injustices done in the history of our country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Gilchrist

do i think we should let the guilty walk free? if it means not a single innocent man goes to jail, then yes.

thats the foundation of our legal system, and you string em up by their heels lynch mob mentality morons would do well to keep that in mind.


and why all the hate for the ACLU? all they do is protect your rights.

[delhalew]

Well GK I was trying to go little over the top, but seriously...**** the ACLU. They protect their masters and no one else.

[delhalew]

Also GK, I wasn't trying to say anything about the death penalty, but that Gilchrist story is all kinds of ****ed up.

[Harry Beanbag]

I do love gravy. Especially with French fries.


I think you meant Freedom fries, comrade.

[Harry Beanbag]

i don't have a party. but i don't really see how this is so damaging to the Constitution. if it was such a trampling then the SCOTUS is supposed to intervene, no?


What isn't? I forgot what we were talking about.

[Leroy Lizard]

i don't have a party. but i don't really see how this is so damaging to the Constitution. if it was such a trampling then the SCOTUS is supposed to intervene, no?

That was the way it was supposed to work. But then the SCOTUS decided to become activists, Constitution be damned.

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't understand how Joyce sleeps at night. Wasn't there any point in her career where she looked at herself in the mirror and said, "Gee, what I'm doing is really horrible"?

http://truthinjustice.org/crimelabs/joyce-gilchrist.jpg

[Okla-homey]

where was all the outrage when this was happening under Bush? it's not like it's a new thing

Pffft. W is a native-born, Christian white guy. BHO, well....you know.;)

[OUinFLA]

The average education is high school or below, the most average description is middle-aged, fat and white, and the average income is less than $50k a year.:mad: :mad:

I really didnt need you to point that out. Im sorry I sent you the pic.

:D

[yermom]

What isn't? I forgot what we were talking about.

Healthcare seems to be what has put everyone on edge

even the bailouts seem to have been taken better than that, for some reason

[Boarder]

Here's the Maddow clip:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show#36487849

Thanks Randy (and some Charles Keys character). Thanks for making Oklahoma look like a bunch of freaks.

[C&CDean]

So the resident limp-wrists have to play the race card, the stupid hick card, the "what about bush?" card, and I forget whatever other lame-assed card. And they whine about the likes of Tuba and RLIMC being mindless drones. **** off.

If the **** ever does hit the fan, some of us are prepared, some are not. According to you pinkos on here, the prepared are uneducated, poor ****** haters. Again, **** off.

[Boarder]

Prepared for some goon taking your teevees and prepared to shoot an IRS agent for taking your $695 are two different things.

[C&CDean]

True, however, prepared is prepared.

[yermom]

So the resident limp-wrists have to play the race card, the stupid hick card, the "what about bush?" card, and I forget whatever other lame-assed card. And they whine about the likes of Tuba and RLIMC being mindless drones. **** off.

If the **** ever does hit the fan, some of us are prepared, some are not. According to you pinkos on here, the prepared are uneducated, poor ****** haters. Again, **** off.

being prepared and starting a militia to fight, presumably, the National Guard is quite another

[lexsooner]

Here's my take: When you look at the tea partiers and/or militia types, you have a bunch of folks who probably don't have that much to be happy about. If the stats are true and they are on average poorly-educated, low wage earning, unhealthy fat white guys, those characteristics in themselves are not exactly conducive to high satisfaction in life. Then you pile on the fact the party most of them support and voted for messed up and is out of power, and the party they hate is in power and their leader and every American's leader is a black guy who is smart as a whip. Obama as POUS in itself cuts against the grain of everything they believe in. These folks always had black folks to look down upon, but now they are led by one. Too much. Stocking up on guns in reaction to imaginary ghost enemies is the end product of all of this.

On top of it all, the standard of living for middle and lower class Americans has declined over the decades, while the wealthy have gotten wealthier. While this is probably the result of a bi-partisan effort working with their special interests, the tea partiers naturally but irrationally direct their anger at government and "liberals" whom they blame for the decline of their living standards. If I recall the tea party was being organized before Obama and the Democratic majority in Congress even took office. That in itself tells a lot about the "anger" not being related so much to the policies of this current administration, but rather the result of the reasons discussed above.

[C&CDean]

being prepared and starting a militia to fight, presumably, the National Guard is quite another

Well, yeah. The thing I'm taking issue with is the discounting of anyone who is well-armed and prepared as uneducated redneck negro hating user of government benefits by the lily-livered bunch on this board.

Besides, if the **** ever really did hit the fan, most of the boys I know in the Oklahoma Guard would be on my side.

[Sooner5030]

Here's my take: When you look at the tea partiers and/or militia types, you have a bunch of folks who probably don't have that much to be happy about. If the stats are true and they are on average poorly-educated, low wage earning, unhealthy fat white guys, those characteristics in themselves are not exactly conducive to high satisfaction in life. Then you pile on the fact the party most of them support and voted for messed up and is out of power, and the party they hate is in power and their leader and every American's leader is a black guy who is smart as a whip. Obama as POUS in itself cuts against the grain of everything they believe in. These folks always had black folks to look down upon, but now they are led by one. Too much. Stocking up on guns in reaction to imaginary ghost enemies is the end product of all of this.

Your take is pretty ignorant. I’m middle class (~90k), college educated with a technical degree, run three times a week, eat healthy, maintain about 14% body fat and I don’t own a gun and I support the Tea Party.

I’ve also realized that if I had to pay my 3/~300 millionth (wifey, son and I) share of our services and cumulative debt I’d be broke. You force me into a system that will adversely impact my family once our government becomes a going concern.

There are civil ways to debate governance and ideals but misrepresenting a group that you politically disagree with adds nothing to the debate.

[Ike]

Here's my take: When you look at the tea partiers and/or militia types, you have a bunch of folks who probably don't have that much to be happy about. If the stats are true and they are on average poorly-educated, low wage earning, unhealthy fat white guys, those characteristics in themselves are not exactly conducive to high satisfaction in life. Then you pile on the fact the party most of them support and voted for messed up and is out of power, and the party they hate is in power and their leader and every American's leader is a black guy who is smart as a whip. Obama as POUS in itself cuts against the grain of everything they believe in. These folks always had black folks to look down upon, but now they are led by one. Too much. Stocking up on guns in reaction to imaginary ghost enemies is the end product of all of this.

On top of it all, the standard of living for middle and lower class Americans has declined over the decades, while the wealthy have gotten wealthier. While this is probably the result of a bi-partisan effort working with their special interests, the tea partiers naturally but irrationally direct their anger at government and "liberals" whom they blame for the decline of their living standards. If I recall the tea party was being organized before Obama and the Democratic majority in Congress even took office. That in itself tells a lot about the "anger" not being related so much to the policies of this current administration, but rather the result of the reasons discussed above.

I think your first paragraph is a far too simplistic view of the tea partiers. The second is a little closer to reality (altho if I remember correctly, the tea party didn't really start getting organized until either BHO was elected, or after it was pretty clear he stood a good shot to win)...
As to who the tea partiers are...a recent gallup poll (http://www.gallup.com/poll/127181/Tea-Partiers-Fairly-Mainstream-Demographics.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=Politics) shows that they are, demographically speaking, not too far outside of the make up of the general population. Attitudinally speaking (if I can use that made up word), they are quite different from the population at large. But the fact that demographically they are so similar to the overall population kind of shoots down the idea that they are just a bunch of poor welfare receiving rednecks. There are probably some of those in there...just as there are some of those in the general population.

[TUSooner]

Well, yeah. The thing I'm taking issue with is the discounting of anyone who is well-armed and prepared as uneducated redneck negro hating user of government benefits by the lily-livered bunch on this board.

Besides, if the **** ever really did hit the fan, most of the boys I know in the Oklahoma Guard would be on my side.

Don't count me in that bunch of discounters. If I lived on the Ponderosa, I'd be well-armed for sure. Even here in the 'burbs, I wouldn't mind having an AK-47 in the closet instead of my squirrel gun. My question is for with the paranoid, panicky sky-is-falling apocalyptical bunch who are ready to go to war against Satan's Bolshevik Legions, even though they haven't stopped to figure out who the F*** they're talking about. The most likely of THEIR enemies would seem to be agents of the Federal Government. They don't want to be classed with Timmy McVeigh and the Austin IRS plane-crasher, but they seem to be drifiting in that direction, with loads of anger but nary a clue.

[JohnnyMack]

Don't count me in that bunch of discounters. If I lived on the Ponderosa, I'd be well-armed for sure. Even here in the 'burbs, I wouldn't mind having an AK-47 in the closet instead of my squirrel gun. My question is for with the paranoid, panicky sky-is-falling apocalyptical bunch who are ready to go to war against Satan's Bolshevik Legions, even though they haven't stopped to figure out who the F*** they're talking about. The most likely of THEIR enemies would seem to be agents of the Federal Government. They don't want to be classed with Timmy McVeigh and the Austin IRS plane-crasher, but they seem to be drifiting in that direction, with loads of anger but nary a clue.

It's funny to me that the rallying cry of the tea party is that government is broke and that they need to take America back. Like Obama simply picked up DC and shook it like a snow globe turning a perfect world into an complete mess. I just wish they would be a little more honest with the focus of their rage, which isn't Washington but the Democrat leadership in the WH and Congress they're opposed to.

[yermom]

if the focus was on Washington, i'd think they were more credible, but it's all about Obama being a communist or Kenyan, or Muslim or whatever

i'd take them a lot more seriously if they were complaining about becoming the United States of China

[Boarder]

Nary is a funny word.

[GKeeper316]

Nary is a funny word.

not as much fun to say as moist. love that word. moist.

[delhalew]

It is funny the lack of knowledge about "tea party" folks, which are really just fed up Americans.
You have all these notions fed to you about your fellow Americans. Its just sad.
The last straw is a cliche. Cliches exist because they are so true as to be overused.
Its obvious our problem is not political, but societial. God help us.

[JohnnyMack]

It is funny the lack of knowledge about "tea party" folks, which are really just fed up Americans.
You have all these notions fed to you about your fellow Americans. Its just sad.
The last straw is a cliche. Cliches exist because they are so true as to be overused.
Its obvious our problem is not political, but societial. God help us.

So you're saying you were frustrated with W and his rampant spending and abuses of power as well, right?

[Okla-homey]

Don't count me in that bunch of discounters. If I lived on the Ponderosa, I'd be well-armed for sure. Even here in the 'burbs, I wouldn't mind having an AK-47 in the closet instead of my squirrel gun. My question is for with the paranoid, panicky sky-is-falling apocalyptical bunch who are ready to go to war against Satan's Bolshevik Legions, even though they haven't stopped to figure out who the F*** they're talking about. The most likely of THEIR enemies would seem to be agents of the Federal Government. They don't want to be classed with Timmy McVeigh and the Austin IRS plane-crasher, but they seem to be drifiting in that direction, with loads of anger but nary a clue.

My sense is these militia's and the tea-partiers from which many of them sprang are permeated with a fair number of tin-foil hat wearers. I heard one self-described Okie tea-party leader being interviewed this morning and many of his answers to direct questions about why they do what they do resulted not in answers, but questions. Answering direct questions with questions is the first sign of of a guy who is tryin to dodge, or who is delusional.

Example rom said interview as best I can recall: Q: Why do you feel the need to support establishment of an Oklahoma militia? A: Are you aware of the facts surrounding the Murrah bombing that implicated the federal government?

[MR2-Sooner86]

theres a very large difference between minutemen standing up for the no taxation without representation philosophy, and attempting to cast off or overthrow a legitimately elected government.

Some people would disagree.

"There's a reason for this, there's a reason education sucks, and it's the same reason it will never ever ever be fixed. It's never going to get any better. Don't look for it. Be happy with what you've got... because the owners of this country don’t want that. I'm talking about the real owners now... the real owners. The big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting ****ed by a system that threw them overboard 30 ****in’ years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly ****tier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your ****in' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later 'cause they own this ****in' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted, folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good, honest, hard-working people: white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good, honest, hard-working people continue — these are people of modest means — continue to elect these rich **********s who don’t give a **** about them. They don’t give a **** about you. They don’t give a **** about you. They don’t care about you at all! At all! At all! And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their *******s every day, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it."


not to mention during the revolutionary war, both sides were fairly equally armed (muskets and cannons). nowadays if you think any "militia" armed only with deer rifles and .357s stands a chance against the best trained and equipped military the world has ever known, well, you are equally as delusional as the morons that think forming a militia is a good idea.

Yeah, we know our advanced military really kicked the **** out of those Vietnamese! Also, who has ever heard of the IRA? Yeah, their guerrilla warfare tactics don't do a damn thing for them! Doesn't Russia still control Afghanistan as well?

:rolleyes:

[Boarder]

Yeah, we know our advanced military really kicked the **** out of those Vietnamese! Also, who has ever heard of the IRA? Yeah, their guerrilla warfare tactics don't do a damn thing for them! Doesn't Russia still control Afghanistan as well?


Is David "Jesus" Koresh still alive?

[Harry Beanbag]

So you're saying you were frustrated with W and his rampant spending and abuses of power as well, right?


Geez, some of you people need to pay more attention or STFU. This has been stated countless times over the last 5+ years around here.

One of the worst qualities about this board is hypocrites calling others hypocrites and pretending it is a winning debate tactic. NEWS FLASH: EVERYONE IS A ****ING HYPOCRITE. All humans are. Jesus is the only man to ever walk the face of the earth who wasn't, but most of you don't believe in him anyway.

[yermom]

there aren't a whole lot of people that have bitched about both of them

[Okla-homey]

Jesus is the only man to ever walk the face of the earth who wasn't, but most of you don't believe in him anyway.

I'm occasionally guilty of hypocrisy. I admits it. But I beleive in Jesus. And that belief is why I'm not terribly worried about the way things are going. If I get killed, so be it. I get eternity in Heaven - WIN!. If I survive - WIN!

Its all good. srsly.

[JohnnyMack]

Geez, some of you people need to pay more attention or STFU. This has been stated countless times over the last 5+ years around here.

One of the worst qualities about this board is hypocrites calling others hypocrites and pretending it is a winning debate tactic. NEWS FLASH: EVERYONE IS A ****ING HYPOCRITE. All humans are. Jesus is the only man to ever walk the face of the earth who wasn't, but most of you don't believe in him anyway.

WTF am I being hypocritical about? Did the Tea Party establish itself during W's term or not? And having been around here the last 5 years I sure as **** don't remember the tea party types we have on this board railing against the previous administration.

[JohnnyMack]

I'm occasionally guilty of hypocrisy. I admits it. But I beleive in Jesus. And that belief is why I'm not terribly worried about the way things are going. If I get killed, so be it. I get eternity in Heaven - WIN!. If I survive - WIN!

Its all good. srsly.

Me, I've embraced the Devil. The Dark Lord himself. I'm going to Hell and have accepted a management position. My office even has a window.

[Harry Beanbag]

WTF am I being hypocritical about?

You aren't a hypocrite? You complaining about people complaining about Obama after you complained about Bush for eons makes you a hypocrite in and of itself.



Did the Tea Party establish itself during W's term or not?

Not that I'm aware of, but Bush's most vociferous opponents, like yourself, aren't all that concerned about Constitutional formalities.



And having been around here the last 5 years I sure as **** don't remember the tea party types we have on this board railing against the previous administration.

You don't remember anybody railing against the previous administration? :rolleyes: If you don't remember conservatives/republicans complaining about Bush's spending that's your own fault and selective memory, because there was plenty of it.

[SactoSooner]

WTF am I being hypocritical about? Did the Tea Party establish itself during W's term or not? And having been around here the last 5 years I sure as **** don't remember the tea party types we have on this board railing against the previous administration.

They were too busy screaming about how those who were disagreeing and protesting the Bush administration's policies were unpatriotic, non-Jesus-loving, baby-killing communist sympathizers instead of trying to have a rational discussion with someone with a different point of view.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Is David "Jesus" Koresh still alive?

Yup, tanks, helicopters, and close to a thousand men against 50 men, women, and children under siege with AR-15 rifles is just like open civil war type conflict we're talking about.

Also, did the government get their man at Ruby Ridge? Oh, just a kid and unarmed woman? Got it.


They've made some tiny changes since the late sixties, you might wanna read up on all that first, Rambo.

Yeah those reports of homemade bombs taking out Abrams tanks in Iraq are just lies. That country has been stable since '03 :rolleyes:

[JohnnyMack]

You aren't a hypocrite? You complaining about people complaining about Obama after you complained about Bush for eons makes you a hypocrite in and of itself.

Ummm....I've pretty much complained about both of them. Don't know if you bothered to pay any attention to my numerous rants against ObamaCare, but whatever helps you frame your preconceived narrative.


Not that I'm aware of, but Bush's most vociferous opponents, like yourself, aren't all that concerned about Constitutional formalities.

I was and continue to be a vociferous opponent of the NeoCon approach to Nation Building. I think it's wasteful in terms of lives and money and it certainly doesn't help the way we're perceived around the globe. My chief complaint with W has always been that he took his eye off the ball in terms of Al Qaida. The same way my chief complaint with Obama is and likely will be the way in which ObamaCare was forced through.


You don't remember anybody railing against the previous administration? :rolleyes: If you don't remember conservatives/republicans complaining about Bush's spending that's your own fault and selective memory, because there was plenty of it.

I don't remember any of the people who are currently aligning themselves with the Tea Party railing against W's policies. Maybe I'm wrong about it existing but they certainly weren't whipped up into the frenzy they are now.

[Sooner5030]

Folks.....the tea party wasn't ant-bush or anti-obama as it started in its early stages as an anti-federal reserve movement then came TARP then the bailouts and then huge deficits. As all these thing occurred they gathered more strength as they picked up more causes.

That fact that our populace doesn't understand our central banking system and how it profits with debt and devalues our currency is scary. That's really what is the central belief of the early Tea Partiers. The folks that jumped on board later on I cannot defend but I also don't have to defend them.

[Harry Beanbag]

Folks.....the tea party wasn't ant-bush or anti-obama as it started in its early stages as an anti-federal reserve movement then came TARP then the bailouts and then huge deficits. As all these thing occurred they gathered more strength as they picked up more causes.

That fact that our populace doesn't understand our central banking system and how it profits with debt and devalues our currency is scary. That's really what is the central belief of the early Tea Partiers. The folks that jumped on board later on I cannot defend but I also don't have to defend them.


This. The Tea Party movement as I understand it has been co-opted from it's original founding. I support it's existence, especially from its origins. But to tell you the truth, I don't watch the news or pay much attention to what is going on with it now other than the gnashing of teeth by their opponents.

[Boarder]

This. The Tea Party movement as I understand it has been co-opted from it's original founding. I support it's existence, especially from its origins. But to tell you the truth, I don't watch the news or pay much attention to what is going on with it now other than the gnashing of teeth by their opponents.

Hey, some of them want a militia, or so I've been told.

[Harry Beanbag]

Ummm....I've pretty much complained about both of them. Don't know if you bothered to pay any attention to my numerous rants against ObamaCare, but whatever helps you frame your preconceived narrative.

No, I've noticed some buyer's remorse from you. It is refreshing.




I was and continue to be a vociferous opponent of the NeoCon approach to Nation Building. I think it's wasteful in terms of lives and money and it certainly doesn't help the way we're perceived around the globe. My chief complaint with W has always been that he took his eye off the ball in terms of Al Qaida. The same way my chief complaint with Obama is and likely will be the way in which ObamaCare was forced through.

My political thoughts have morphed quite a bit over the last 6 years or so. Trying to come to grips with getting older and my own mortality along with becoming a father have changed my views. At first I supported Bush's wars, but I don't any longer other than that we should fight to win since we're there.

And as far as ignoring Afghanistan to concentrate on Iraq, that was merely out of necessity. Iraq was such a cluster**** and our military is so small now that both wars could not be prosecuted balls out at the same time. Not to mention that they are completely different battlefields that require different strategies.




I don't remember any of the people who are currently aligning themselves with the Tea Party railing against W's policies. Maybe I'm wrong about it existing but they certainly weren't whipped up into the frenzy they are now.

Once again, you aren't whipped up into a frenzy like you were against Bush either.

I am not aligned with the Tea Party. I do support some of what they stand for as I understand it, but I don't belong to any organizations. Maybe I'm more paranoid than I should be, but I don't like to be on lists. Same reason I don't belong to the NRA.

[PDXsooner]

Here's my take: When you look at the tea partiers and/or militia types, you have a bunch of folks who probably don't have that much to be happy about. If the stats are true and they are on average poorly-educated, low wage earning, unhealthy fat white guys, those characteristics in themselves are not exactly conducive to high satisfaction in life. Then you pile on the fact the party most of them support and voted for messed up and is out of power, and the party they hate is in power and their leader and every American's leader is a black guy who is smart as a whip. Obama as POUS in itself cuts against the grain of everything they believe in. These folks always had black folks to look down upon, but now they are led by one. Too much. Stocking up on guns in reaction to imaginary ghost enemies is the end product of all of this.

On top of it all, the standard of living for middle and lower class Americans has declined over the decades, while the wealthy have gotten wealthier. While this is probably the result of a bi-partisan effort working with their special interests, the tea partiers naturally but irrationally direct their anger at government and "liberals" whom they blame for the decline of their living standards. If I recall the tea party was being organized before Obama and the Democratic majority in Congress even took office. That in itself tells a lot about the "anger" not being related so much to the policies of this current administration, but rather the result of the reasons discussed above.

pretty well said...

[Harry Beanbag]

pretty well said...


Yep. If you're an ignorant, race-baiting, stereo-typing, simple minded, completely wrong fool that is.

[PDXsooner]

Yep. If you're an ignorant, race-baiting, stereo-typing, simple minded, completely wrong fool that is.

Or if I'm right, which I am.

[Sooner5030]

Or if I'm right, which I am.

Some of us have already laid out our own demographics to show these stereotypes are not always true. You just ignore them because it's easier to bring down alternative ideas of government by claiming wackos supporting these idea are all these things that are not true.

Debate the idea.

[delhalew]

Some of us have already laid out our own demographics to show these stereotypes are not always true. You just ignore them because it's easier to bring down alternative ideas of government by claiming wackos supporting these idea are all these things that are not true.

Debate the idea.

You are not likely to get a real debate from the don't know, don't care crowd.
They want to stay ignorant and feel superior.

[Okla-homey]

Let me break it down for ya.

Palin in 2012 = Perot in '92 and '96.

Perot's third-party run made it possible for WJC to win twice.

I sure hope Sarah doesn't do the same for BHO.

And for the record, I admire both Perot and Palin. If you ever run into me, ask me to tell you my story about Perot and what he did for one of my SOF guys wh was catastrophically injured in Kuwait.

[PDXsooner]

Some of us have already laid out our own demographics to show these stereotypes are not always true. You just ignore them because it's easier to bring down alternative ideas of government by claiming wackos supporting these idea are all these things that are not true.

Debate the idea.

Ha ha, I wish it were so easy. I think you know what a generalization is.

[delhalew]

Let me break it down for ya.

Palin in 2012 = Perot in '92 and '96.

Perot's third-party run made it possible for WJC to win twice.

I sure hope Sarah doesn't do the same for BHO.

And for the record, I admire both Perot and Palin. If you ever run into me, ask me to tell you my story about Perot and what he did for one of my SOF guys wh was catastrophically injured in Kuwait.

The GOP has ONE chance to seize the power of a populace that is aking the right questions and is pissed about the right things.
As an independent, I wish I had influence on primaries. Alas, I will have to hope (R)'s are paying attention. Paleo conservatives from local municipalities up to Congress is my hope.
A republican congress and/or president is not good enough for me. It's time to head the warning our forefathers gave us. We are not likely to get another chance during my lifetime. We have policies and amendments in need of repeal. Obamacare is last on my list. If we do it right, we won't have to worry about broken policies like Obama care for generations...if not centuries.

[GKeeper316]

As an independent, I wish I had influence on primaries. Alas, I will have to hope (R)'s are paying attention. Paleo conservatives from local municipalities up to Congress is my hope.


thats why im a far left thinking registered republican :P

no ****.

i love voting for the biggest tool rep on the ballot every primary.

[Harry Beanbag]

thats why im a far left thinking registered republican :P

no ****.

i love voting for the biggest tool rep on the ballot every primary.


Another thing that the founding fathers had hopes for but obviously failed: mature adults doing the voting.

[GKeeper316]

Another thing that the founding fathers had hopes for but obviously failed: mature adults doing the voting.

the redness of oklahoma guarantees that my presidential vote literally counts for nothing. may as well **** with the other side.

[delhalew]

We're dealing with ****ing infants in this country.
Let's just pick sides and kill each other. It would be easier than living with these morons.

[jkjsooner]

I am my own militia. I am armed to the teeth for one reason. To protect my place. If the brown people, the muslims, the messican diswashers, crack addicts, welfare queens, or federal government folks decide to cross the fence and physically take what is mine, then we've got trouble brewing. Stay the **** outta my place, and it's all good.


So what if they get an incorrect tip that you are selling drugs out of your house? Now you are dead as well as a couple of police officers because you didn't want to go through the normal procedures to address your issues with them.

I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just trying to make a point. Who is to decide when the line has been crossed that requires violent protective measures? Do we all have the right to make that decision ourselves? Would you recognize that society probably sets the bar differently and that those who physically defend their rights will be considered murderers?

I recognize that in the worst case, say we have a Nazi type oppressive government who is killing its own citizens by the millions, then it's nice that we have armed citizens who can counter the government. But there is a huge middle ground there and I don't think it's prudent for individuals to decide on their own whether shooting a government officer is justified.

That is my biggest problem with the militia types. Just because they feel oppressed doesn't validate their actions.

Edit: Dean, I took your messages a little further to make a point and in no way am I insinuating that you would do some of the things I said. My point is to ask what is and is not appropriate.

[TopDawg]

This. The Tea Party movement as I understand it has been co-opted from it's original founding. I support it's existence, especially from its origins. But to tell you the truth, I don't watch the news or pay much attention to what is going on with it now other than the gnashing of teeth by their opponents.

and...of course...the gnashing of teeth by its members. Right?

[JohnnyMack]

Just because they feel oppressed

o76WQzVJ434

[lexsooner]

[QUOTE=C&CDean;2865125]I am my own militia. I am armed to the teeth for one reason. To protect my place. If the brown people, the muslims, the messican diswashers, crack addicts, welfare queens, or federal government folks decide to cross the fence and physically take what is mine, then we've got trouble brewing. Stay the **** outta my place, and it's all good.

So it is only the groups of people you hate who might steal from you?

[Leroy Lizard]

I recognize that in the worst case, say we have a Nazi type oppressive government who is killing its own citizens by the millions, then it's nice that we have armed citizens who can counter the government.

If we have a Marxist-type oppressive government, you can't just decide at that time to arm the citizenry. It's too late. You have to be armed beforehand to prevent the oppression from beginning in the first place.

[jkjsooner]

If we have a Marxist-type oppressive government, you can't just decide at that time to arm the citizenry. It's too late. You have to be armed beforehand to prevent the oppression from beginning in the first place.

I'm not arguing against you being armed. I'm asking at what point is it justified to use those weapons. Who makes that determination. I don't think we want everyone deciding on their own.

[jkjsooner]

If we have a Marxist-type oppressive government, you can't just decide at that time to arm the citizenry. It's too late. You have to be armed beforehand to prevent the oppression from beginning in the first place.

I'm not arguing against you being armed. I'm asking at what point is it justified to use those weapons. Who makes that determination. I don't think we want everyone deciding on their own.

Our founding fathers didn't go David Koresh on the Brits. They waited until there was a large popular support for the resistance - not to mention that the resistance was also a very intellectual movement (and had backing from foreign governments) so they were hardly rednecks hanging out in some compound in Michigan.

[delhalew]

I'm not arguing against you being armed. I'm asking at what point is it justified to use those weapons. Who makes that determination. I don't think we want everyone deciding on their own.

Our founding fathers didn't go David Koresh on the Brits. They waited until there was a large popular support for the resistance - not to mention that the resistance was also a very intellectual movement (and had backing from foreign governments) so they were hardly rednecks hanging out in some compound in Michigan.

Hard to tell if you get it or not. The idea is every citizen should keep arms. You, me, and rednecks in Michigan.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm not arguing against you being armed. I'm asking at what point is it justified to use those weapons. Who makes that determination. I don't think we want everyone deciding on their own.

This is a problem whenever a population faces a civil war. When is it time?

Read about the Spanish Civil War and it will be clearer. Franco showed the world how to win a civil war and how you treat a beaten population.

If you hesitate or get squeamish, you'll probably lose. And you never want to lose a civil war unless you want to die like a coward.

[TopDawg]

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, if you're packin' heat, they won't even get close enough to spit in your eye.