Muslims can opt out of Health Care with no penalty ?

[OUinFLA]

Now that just doesnt seem fair?

http://www.examiner.com/x-38904-Phoenix-Small-Business-Management-Examiner~y2010m3d26-If-you-are-muslim-you-can-opt-out-of-the-Obamacare-health-care-reform-laws-with-no-penalties


I certainly hope this is not factual, just thought I'd toss it out there for discussion.

[A Sooner in Texas]

I wouldn't exactly consider anything on examiner.com as factual.

[Leroy Lizard]

Islam Online has a piece on insurance:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544750


All types of commercial insurance no doubt involve gambling which is prohibited in Almighty Allah’s saying, (O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed.) (Al-Ma’idah 5: 90)

Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544750#ixzz0jcyxyPNx

I haven't found the actual text of the health care bill that deals with this issue so at this point I don't know.

I do wonder how someone following these tenets could drive.

Reading on:


Commercial insurance is originally haram as agreed upon by most contemporary scholars. It is well known that in most non-Islamic countries there are co-operative and mutual insurance companies. There is no harm from the Shari`ah point of view to participate in these services. So, it is unlawful for a Muslim living in a country where there is such a co-operative insurance company to make an agreement with a commercial insurance company. But, if a co-operative insurance company is not found one may enter into a contract with a commercial insurance company only by way of necessity. If a person is forced by law to insurance or by way of need, it is obligatory for him to be content with the minimum proportion of insurance that covers his need or to the minimum of such transaction he’s being forced to carry out.

Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544750#ixzz0jczfJ6Qr

[JohnnyMack]

Duh. You didn't think Brack was gonna make his people pay, did you?

[yermom]

yeah, but they still have to be Muslim

not sure that's an even trade :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

yawn.

[SoonerJack]

Muslim = no bacon

[John Kochtoston]

I wouldn't exactly consider anything on examiner.com as factual.

As a former writer for Examiner, I whole-heartedly agree.

[King Barry's Back]

They quoted legal text, so it shouldn't be very hard to check to see if that language was actually in the bill/bills passed. (I'm busy right now. Maybe I'll do it tomorrow.)

I AM skeptical, for the simple fact that my understanding is that we have "separation of church and state" in this country (well, that country - America - where you all live) and that the govt isn't supposed to discriminate based on religion.

But that wouldn't be the only thing that looks suspiciously unconstitutional, either.

[Boarder]

I wrote out all of the language here:

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2855853&postcount=36

Basically, if they use the services, they have to buy health insurance. Amish, for example, do not use the services, so they don't have to. You must get an exemption certificate from the agency overseeing this and use that to show the IRS you're exempt.

So, the Muslim thing is false.

[yermom]

none of the Muslims i've been around ever talked about this, btw (meaning avoiding insurance)

but Ned Flanders didn't believe in it either :D

seems it would be tough to buy a house without it too...

[Boarder]

The original link refers to Section 1411(b)(5)(A). It says that the "Information Required To Be Provided by Applicants" is whatever the Secretary says it should be for religious exemption certificates.

[Boarder]

Off-topic, I know, but not only is Congress not exempt, the only coverages they will be provided must come from the State set-up exchanges prescribed by the bill. So, they do have to use the plan they are making everyone else use.

[OklahomaTuba]

Not true, it does exclude committee and their staff's from participating in the exchanges.

As is the White House.

[Boarder]

Not true, it does exclude committee and their staff's from participating in the exchanges.

As is the White House.
No, it doesn't. What you (and the FoxNews goons) are referring to is that it says Congress members and their staffs will be provided exchange plans. Some have wondered if, for instance, Pelosi's staff as a Representative from California is different from her staff as Speaker of the House. All of that talk comes from people on the outside trying to find a loophole, when the reality is that everyone involved on Capitol Hill wil have exchange plans.

Don't give me your rhetoric crap.

Section 1312 (d)(3)(D)

(D) MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE EXCHANGE

(i) REQUIREMENT- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, after the effective date of this subtitle, the only health plans that the Federal Government may make available to Members of Congress and congressional staff with respect to their service as a Member of Congress or congressional staff shall be health plans that are

(I) created under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act); or

(II) offered through an Exchange established under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act).

[Boarder]

Btw, I'm not just super in favor or all rah rah rah about this bill. I just can't stand all of the goofy rhetoric arguments that have no basis. If you have an actual argument against it that doesn't include, "they're takin' our freedumses!" style stuff, I completely respect that.

[OklahomaTuba]

No, it doesn't. What you (and the FoxNews goons) are referring to is that it says Congress members and their staffs will be provided exchange plans.

Nice quote there, but again, you're wrong.

There's 2000+ pages, care to quote the rest??


The current law signed by President Barack Obama Tuesday applies to members of Congress and their staffs, but includes a loophole that does not require committee or leadership staffers to participate in the exchanges established by the government. http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0310/Senate_rejects_attempt_to_close_loophole.html

[yermom]

so... politico.com com is a more reputable source than the bill? without a citation?

[OklahomaTuba]

so... politico.com com is a more reputable source than the bill? without a citation?Yes it is, considering he is quoting like a paragraph of a bill with 2000+ pages.

Plenty of room to stick no telling how many loopholes, bribes, kickbacks, tax increases, etc.

[Boarder]

See the other thread. Yes, I can quote any relevant passage, although I fail to see how Sec 4377 (a)(3) which defines "UNITED STATES- The term ‘United States’ includes any possession of the United States." would help the conversation.

[Boarder]

Yes it is, considering he is quoting like a paragraph of a bill with 2000+ pages.

Plenty of room to stick no telling how many loopholes, bribes, kickbacks, tax increases, etc.
So, by your logic, if I fail to quote every part of a work, I am necessarily taking my citation out of context? Is that it?

Your argument is not good.

[OklahomaTuba]

Your argument is not good.You're the one arguing against a fact, not me.

Besides, if congress wasn't exempt from the bill, why did they vote to keep themselves exempted from the bill???

[Boarder]

You're the one arguing against a fact, not me.

Besides, if congress wasn't exempt from the bill, why did they vote to keep themselves exempted from the bill???
See other thread. It's not a fact. Sorry.

[OklahomaTuba]

See other thread. It's not a fact. Sorry.

Yes, it is a fact. Sorry you seem unable to come to terms with it.


Guess who's exempt?

No worrying for them about the personal consequences of ObamaCare's overbearing regulation, worrisome coverage uncertainties and financial confusions. Same for members of the presidential Cabinet -- and all of their staff members.

They and their families are exempt from the calamitous health-care "reform" plan they've hung on the rest of the country.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/guess_who_exempt_3Ooyvo9LOXqOjXdMNjkwhN#ixzz0jhMOm 7Zd

[SoonerAtKU]

So, Tubs, your point is backed by an Op/Ed piece from the Post that doesn't cite any language in the bill?

Just checking...

[Boarder]

Yes, it is a fact. Sorry you seem unable to come to terms with it.
Again, the Grassley amendment that was rejected contained many more things than closing this supposed loophole. There is a link to it in the other thread.

I thought about combining the threads, but it would be difficult to follow.

[Scott D]

it's ok Boarder, Tuba's train of logical thought is difficult to follow, so it'd just flow together.

[landrun]

I wrote out all of the language here:

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2855853&postcount=36

... Basically, if they use the services, they have to buy health insurance. Amish, for example, do not use the services, so they don't have to. ...

Define, 'the service'.
Seems to me if you want access to the health care system, you have to buy a government approved plan. Correct?

[Boarder]

Define, 'the service'.
Seems to me if you want access to the health care system, you have to buy a government approved plan. Correct?
That was just a very basic way of explaining it. The way I understand it is that if you use the health care services (whatever that may be) you must have insurance or pay the extra tax for not having it. It's the same justification used to exempt from paying taxes and is based upon the IRS code. I haven't looked to see what these services actually are.

[JLEW1818]

half whites/half blacks don't have to pay either.

[Boarder]

Poot-heads and turd-faces don't, either.

[JLEW1818]

Boarder, i elect u to make a new thread, and we can think of who doesn't gotta pay

[Boarder]

Eh, this one was done anyway. Go ahead and make it 10 pages to give everyone the illusion it's a long discussion.

People who drink German beer on St. Patrick's Day don't have to pay.

[JLEW1818]

Tim Tebow does not pay either

[Boarder]

Tebow heals himself, duh.

[Scott D]

half whites/half blacks don't have to pay either.

good, I'm sick of paying for stuff so whitey can get free usage out of it. :D