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View Full Version : Debunking a big myth of the "Mistake of '88"



NMSooner'80
3/28/2010, 01:40 PM
I don't think I've posted this on this particular board. If I did, though, sorry about the overkill.

But, I get so annoyed whenever I hear a reference of "Danny and the Miracles" and how they vanquished the pure evil that was Billy and his Boys. You'd think that KU had no talent and represented Truth, Justice and the American Way, the way that game became billed later when they played OU for the title.

In the offseason of 1987, the Sooners were a complete afterthought as a league favorite going into the '87-88 season. The heavy favorites were Kansas and Missouri, in either order. OU had just lost Tim McCalister, David Johnson and Darryl "Choo" Kennedy, so it was thought to be a rebuilding year.

Even a few amateur "pundits" on OKC-area talk radio thought that OSU and it's "great recruiter" Leonard Hamilton would out-do OU that year. OU had a huge JC recruting class that was underhyped - guys like Mookie Blaylock, Tyrone Jones, Andre Wiley and Mike Bell.

Kansas was even ranked No. 1 in one of the preseason publications that I had (Basketball Times), and was not ranked behind OU in any magazine or preseason poll. Yet the JayHorns came out flat that year and was at one point 12-8. OU was rolling by then, but the big story about that was the subjective criticism of "running up the score" on people early in the season.

KU finally got hot late in the year and played well enough to get an at-large bid. This was after even NBA legend Rick Barry, interviewed before the OU-KU game in Lawrence, was very critical of how the Birdies had looked up to that point in the season. OU did sweep KU in the regular season, both games being 8-point margins, and KU didn't even make the Big 8 finals in the tournament. OU took that title with a close win over K-State.

In the tourney, KU got one lucky draw after another. For one thing, they got to play in Lincoln, barely two hours from "home." Then every higher seed managed to lose just before they'd get KU. They got KSU in the regional finals and finally played up to par in winning that region.

Of course, this got them "home" to the Final Four in Lawrence-East, better known as Kansas City and its uber-homer media. OU got to the Final Four by taking out Louisville and Villanova. In both cases, the Sooners got to play "evil" to the other team's "good" - especially when it came to playing Villanova and "Lovable Lil' Rollie" Massamino. I heard talk that media members openly rooted for both Louisville and Villanova.

I didn't go to the Final Four that year, but I had a pretty good idea of how it would play out in the media. Duke, Arizona and Kansas were all the "well coached," good-guy teams, and OU was the "black hats" to even wire service types. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the other three teams had more White players (even being a White guy, myself).

KU drew Dook and did surprisingly well, although the "home" crowd gave them a big edge. OU dominated Arizona, another program who pretty much billed itself as being morally superior, in a game that wasn't as close as the score indicated.

And of course, everyone remembers how the game played out in the finals. KU's marginal "role players" all played the games of their lives, and they won by the score that will live in infamy, 83-79. And, not at all surprisingly, the KU fans were brutal about it, from what I've heard. A bunch of them even followed the OU team bus back to its hotel, just to rub it in as brutally as they could.

But, lost in this ridiculous morality play was that KU underachieved almost the entire season, and OU greatly exceeded expectations. It was a national disgrace that virtually no one outside of Oklahoma, in the media, could recognize how good OU was. It was all about "running up the score" and "Tubbs just rolls the ball out there" (a bogus term that implies the coach doesn't do any actual coaching, and just wins with "talent"). It never mattered that OU had no high school All-Americans compared to the other three Final Four teams (like Arizona's Sean Elliott, KU's Manning and Mark Randall, and Duke's Danny Ferry).

This is also why I hate the whole "Cinderella" story nonsense. It's usually not based on much fact - much like it was three years ago with OU football against the Potato Aggies....

Leroy Lizard
3/28/2010, 03:16 PM
I would like to forget that whole season. Great team... but known primarily for the one big loss at the end.

Collier11
3/28/2010, 03:18 PM
just like people calling Butler a cindarella, they have won over 30 games and have beaten Ohio st, Xavier, Siena, Utep, Syracuse, and Kstate

bri
3/28/2010, 09:06 PM
You left out the best part; KU was cheating like a motherf*cker and went on probation the next season. :mad:

tommieharris91
3/28/2010, 10:36 PM
just like people calling Butler a cindarella, they have won over 30 games and have beaten Ohio st, Xavier, Siena, Utep, Syracuse, and Kstate

This. They were nothing like 13 seed George Mason awhile back.

Sooner04
3/28/2010, 11:47 PM
This. They were nothing like 13 seed George Mason awhile back.
Who happened to be an 11-seed.

sooner59
3/29/2010, 12:08 AM
This. They were nothing like 13 seed George Mason awhile back.

My happiness when George Mason beat UCONN could not be put into words. :)

Collier11
3/29/2010, 12:16 AM
it was greatness

King Barry's Back
3/29/2010, 03:39 AM
NM --

Alot of what you said is true, but I'm calling 'selective memory' on some of that, too.

Oklahoma came into that championship game with a record of 35-3, with wins over some great teams -- Louisville, Nova and Zona in the NCAA alone.

I just remember Oklahoma being really respected that year. Maybe OU was "evil" (Billy never tried to play the press, which is what reporters really long for), and maybe everybody wanted to see Billy lose -- but they didn't want to play his teams either.

I still get sick when I think about that last KU game.

Really.

Sick.

Still.

Even today.

KU sucks. The one good thing about Mangino getting fired is I don't have to cheer for the Jayhawks in football anymore.

NMSooner'80
3/29/2010, 09:34 AM
I know OU was incredibly good that year, but not that hyped going into the season like KU and Mizzou were.

My biggest beef is that KU got treated like a "Cinderella" team for getting to the Final Four and then basically winning two home games there. That was NO "lovable underdog," in any way, shape or form.

As for the "evil" thing, that was real. No one ever used that word, but it was strongly implied. I remember that UPI's college basketball writer stopped inches short of rooting against OU in his Final 4 preview. I heard Al Eschbach talk, with disgust (he and Billy were friends), about how biased the other media types were going into that OU-Villanova matchup.

And that was the year that ESPN had a nasty habit of ripping OU every time we won by double figures, "Oklahoma ran it up on Louisville, 108-98," or something similar. I even heard that some bozo in the media asked Tubbs why he "was trying to run up the score on Louisville by having Blaylock shoot a late three...." What happened was that Mookie flung one up from about 35 feet to kill the clock, and it didn't go in, at the buzzer. He wasn't even trying to make it.

soonervegas
3/29/2010, 12:23 PM
The good news is between 1988 and 2002 we are probably due the next time we get there.

OUmillenium
3/29/2010, 12:26 PM
I followed the 88 basketball season closer than any in my life. A stellar year and severely painful finish. I still cannot watch the entire finals because I get so mad at the officials allowing DManning to do anything he wants and then giving touch fouls to Sky King.

I have all the preseason mags from that year, great stuff.

OU, King and Blaylock especially, got great preseason props going into the next year. They were on the cover of the Sporting News preseason mag, I think.

Let the KU hatred live.

Pricetag
3/29/2010, 02:00 PM
What happened was that Mookie flung one up from about 35 feet to kill the clock, and it didn't go in, at the buzzer. He wasn't even trying to make it.
I remember Mookie jacking one up from about that distance the next year against Louisiana Tech, and it did go in, and OU won by 43. I loved the Billy Ball blowouts.

Sooner04
3/29/2010, 02:26 PM
I remember Mookie jacking one up from about that distance the next year against Louisiana Tech, and it did go in, and OU won by 43. I loved the Billy Ball blowouts.
Everybody always talks about Georgetown and Princeton, but we were the ALL-TIME #1 close shave to a 16-seed. Middle Tennessee and "Mister" Jennings had our *** on the ropes. Weren't we down six with about two minutes to go before scoring the last seven? Yeesh. Nobody ever talks about that. Thank God.

Then two days later we beat La. Tech 124-81, which is still the most points ever scored in the South regional.

Sooner04
3/29/2010, 02:47 PM
And anybody who ever makes the claim that they "root for Kansas because of the Big 12" ought to be taken out back and shot.

bri
3/29/2010, 02:55 PM
Anybody who makes the claim that they "root for ______ because of the Big 12" ought to be taken out back and shot. I'm not a Big 12, I'm a Sooner. Those other 11 motherf*ckers are on their own.

Collier11
3/29/2010, 02:57 PM
True Bri but when it comes tourney time and OU isnt in the tourney you gotta root for someone...its weird though cus I am completely different with football, I find it much harder to root for other Big 12 teams in football

Sooner04
3/29/2010, 03:01 PM
True Bri but when it comes tourney time and OU isnt in the tourney you gotta root for someone...its weird though cus I am completely different with football, I find it much harder to root for other Big 12 teams in football
For God's sake, man, root for your bracket. If you don't have a bracket then root for cool names. I still follow Providence basketball to this day because of God Shammgod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Shammgod).

Anybody, and I mean ANYBODY, who roots for those blue sweater/white turtleneck wearing jackasses deserves to be shot.

In the nuts.

At close range.


I had Kansas going to the finals in my bracket this year. Their loss doomed me, but I was so ecstatic that I harbored thoughts of naming my first-born son Ali Faroukmanesh 04. Don't ever, EVER, root for Kansas. Good grief.

Collier11
3/29/2010, 03:10 PM
I didnt root for Kansas but I did have them winning the thing so in that case I woulda had to have rooted for my bracket, it didnt last long though :D

At this point im rooting for WVU just cus I like DaSean Butler so much.

And I can never forget God Shammgod, nor would I want to

Jello Biafra
3/29/2010, 03:15 PM
For God's sake, man, root for your bracket. If you don't have a bracket then root for cool names. I still follow Providence basketball to this day because of God Shammgod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Shammgod).

Anybody, and I mean ANYBODY, who roots for those blue sweater/white turtleneck wearing jackasses deserves to be shot.

In the nuts.

At close range.


I had Kansas going to the finals in my bracket this year. Their loss doomed me, but I was so ecstatic that I harbored thoughts of naming my first-born son Ali Faroukmanesh 04. Don't ever, EVER, root for Kansas. Good grief.



good name...not as good as kokaine mothershed or his sister marijauna mothershed..

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/29/2010, 03:39 PM
And anybody who ever makes the claim that they "root for Kansas because of the Big 12" ought to be taken out back and shot.EVERY TEAM in the Big 12 hates our ***, and always wants us to lose, in everything, i believe.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/29/2010, 03:41 PM
good name...not as good as kokaine mothershed or his sister marijauna mothershed..I still like Plaxico.

Salt City Sooner
3/29/2010, 03:49 PM
If y'all are feeling especially masochistic right now, the game's going to be on Classic in 10 minutes.

Collier11
3/29/2010, 03:52 PM
good name...not as good as kokaine mothershed or his sister marijauna mothershed..

werent they from Douglas

bri
3/29/2010, 03:59 PM
True Bri but when it comes tourney time and OU isnt in the tourney you gotta root for someone

I root for Gus Johnson.

Sooner04
3/29/2010, 04:20 PM
If y'all are feeling especially masochistic right now, the game's going to be on Classic in 10 minutes.
Watch until we get up 65-60. Maybe it's 66-60.

After that, run like hell. Get as far away from that TV as you possibly can.

Jello Biafra
3/29/2010, 04:21 PM
werent they from Douglas

yappers

Collier11
3/29/2010, 04:42 PM
I root for Gus Johnson.

he always wins

NMSooner'80
3/29/2010, 05:16 PM
Everybody always talks about Georgetown and Princeton, but we were the ALL-TIME #1 close shave to a 16-seed. Middle Tennessee and "Mister" Jennings had our *** on the ropes. Weren't we down six with about two minutes to go before scoring the last seven? Yeesh. Nobody ever talks about that. Thank God.

Then two days later we beat La. Tech 124-81, which is still the most points ever scored in the South regional.


It's amazing that we don't hear about that game. It was like a road game (playing ETSU in Nashville), and that bunch of ETSU freshmen were really good. They beat Arizona as seniors.

I can't remember what the final "run" was for OU to pull it out, but that was our only lead of the game.

BTW, I'm totally in favor of hating KU men's hoops 24/7/365. I hate them all the more because of how the pro-KU media in Kansas City always tried to influence the anti-OU sentiments ever since '84. Heck, it even worked on a good friend of my brother - an OU grad who was from the KC area. The guy is totally one of the "Big 12 loyalty is more important than rooting for your alma mater first" type folks, and he got that way from being brainwashed by the KC-area media idiots. When OU had that "incident" in Lawrence in '84, he totally sided with the notion that Tubbs and OU were 100% at fault.

It also adds to my hatred to know that a KU grad showed up for one school year at the Daily Ardmoreite, the first that I lived back in the state for awhile (summer of '84). He was a news reporter but fancied himself as a college basketball expert. His "New Year's Eve column," where people will list their New Year's wishes for people, was horrific - especially being printed in a town that's 210 miles from Kansas. It urged Wayman Tisdale to go ahead and take the money "and forget about a national title that's well out of reach...." and wished the Kansas Jayhawks "good luck as they pursue a national championship." The idiocy of that was so blatant that I can still picture it as plain as day.

I don't think he stuck around for a second year at the Ardmoreite, after that school year ended. Guy's last name was Mobiley.

Salt City Sooner
3/29/2010, 07:45 PM
Watch until we get up 65-60. Maybe it's 66-60.

After that, run like hell. Get as far away from that TV as you possibly can.
I never get that far. It's switchville on my remote at the first sign of rug head Ed.

bri
3/29/2010, 07:52 PM
he always wins

Because HE GETS BUCKETS.

silverwheels
3/29/2010, 08:12 PM
I root for Gus Johnson.

And Bill Raftery.

Collier11
3/29/2010, 08:13 PM
I dont mind some ONIONS mixed in

bri
3/29/2010, 09:07 PM
When I heard they put Gus and Bill on the new EA NCAA Basketball, I almost ran out and bought a game console solely to hear those two.

NMSooner'80
3/30/2010, 11:07 AM
And anybody who ever makes the claim that they "root for Kansas because of the Big 12" ought to be taken out back and shot.


I think it ought to be required reading for any OU fan to find articles about both the treatment of this OU team when they were in Kansas City in '88, and how it was in '84 when there was so much controversy involving the game in Lawrence. It was emphatically stirred up by the pro-KU media in that part of the world, while the Daily O didn't bother to do much investigating into what really happened. I heard that not only did NO one from OU flip off the KU crowd, but also that the "classy" Beaker fans were just brutal beyond their usual elitism.

One other thing that still chaps me about the whole Beaker experience in Oklahoma is that KU became the darlings of the "anybody-but-OU" crowd in the OKC area. OSU basketball was too impotent, save their usual one-game season (OU in Gallagher, when they played like Supermen, and stunk against everyone else) for that bandwagon. And I'll never believe their wasn't a racist tint to that KU fan-dom in central Oklahoma.

MI Sooner
3/30/2010, 11:29 AM
Michigan State went to OT as a number one seed when they had Steve Smith and Murray State had Popeye Jones.

Pricetag
3/31/2010, 10:10 AM
Everybody always talks about Georgetown and Princeton, but we were the ALL-TIME #1 close shave to a 16-seed. Middle Tennessee and "Mister" Jennings had our *** on the ropes. Weren't we down six with about two minutes to go before scoring the last seven? Yeesh. Nobody ever talks about that. Thank God.

Then two days later we beat La. Tech 124-81, which is still the most points ever scored in the South regional.
I remember an article in the paper after that game, and they asked how OU came out so loose against La Tech after being so tight against ETSU, and they said that they sat around their hotel rooms and played Nintendo instead of freaking out about it all. I clipped that article out and sent it in to Nintendo Power, and those OU-hating SOBs didn't print my letter.

pilobolus
4/1/2010, 07:30 PM
I heard Sean Elliot say recently on Fox Radio that he and his teammates believe to this day Arizona was superior to OU that year, and only lost to them because the Wildcats "just didn't play their game" against the Sooners in the national semis.

Pricetag
4/2/2010, 09:59 AM
They can just keep on believing that.

NMSooner'80
4/2/2010, 10:24 AM
I heard Sean Elliot say recently on Fox Radio that he and his teammates believe to this day Arizona was superior to OU that year, and only lost to them because the Wildcats "just didn't play their game" against the Sooners in the national semis.


This is why I didn't like Sean Elliott as a collegian. Arizona was also pretty arrogant as a program (the same smug, "we're better people than you are" type attitude that KU also has). That game wasn't even as close as the score indicated, and OU won it by 8.

I have lots of relatives out in Seattle who follow UW sports. They absolutely HATED Arizona in that era (the "Gumbies"). Folks in Albuquerque didn't like them either, because UNM also beat them and the UofA folk acted like they were owed an apology because an NIT-bound team won a game against them.

Sooner04
4/2/2010, 10:26 AM
Want to send any Mildcat fan into the fetal position? Just ask them about their meetings with OU in the NCAA Tournament.

Ownage of their ***. That's what that is.

PDXsooner
4/2/2010, 09:24 PM
Watching that OU dynasty from 87-88 until 89-90 was the most fun I've ever had watching college basketball. All three losses are painful, from the title game in '88 to the Bryant Stith/John Crotty Virginia loss in '89, to the EXTREMELY painful Rick Fox buzzer-beater in '90 over a team I thought had a very legitimate chance to win it all...

OUmillenium
4/7/2010, 12:34 PM
This thread has been very therapeutic. Someday, I'll write a little bio on here explaining why. Suffice it to say, my HS team won the State Championship that year and our season mirrored the 87-88 Sooners in a lot of ways. We copied there high 5s and other celebrations.

This June when we move into the new house, I will get my vhs tapes out of storage. I have every televised game from that season and plan to watch them. Might even runs some copies if anybody is interested.

bri
4/7/2010, 03:54 PM
Watching that OU dynasty from 87-88 until 89-90 was the most fun I've ever had watching college basketball. All three losses are painful, from the title game in '88 to the Bryant Stith/John Crotty Virginia loss in '89, to the EXTREMELY painful Rick Fox buzzer-beater in '90 over a team I thought had a very legitimate chance to win it all...

To this day, I f*cking HATE Rick Fox for that. Mr. Eliza Dushku can suck a bag of dicks in hell.

pilobolus
4/14/2010, 03:39 PM
To this day, I f*cking HATE Rick Fox for that. Mr. Eliza Dushku can suck a bag of dicks in hell.

this

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
4/14/2010, 04:30 PM
To this day, I f*cking HATE Rick Fox for that. Mr. Eliza Dushku can suck a bag of dicks in hell.I went into shock after the loss to Danny Manning in '88, and don't remember much of the Billy Tubbs era after that. But...I NEVER HAVE LIKED RICK FOX! I didn't have a good reason, but NOW I DO!

bri
4/14/2010, 05:07 PM
That's right, you hate him retroactive to 1990.

Pricetag
4/15/2010, 12:45 PM
I honestly feel like that loss to KU in the finals was something that went wrong in history. Dr. Sam Beckett needs to leap into Dave Sieger and sink seven more threes in the second half or something.

NMSooner'80
4/15/2010, 01:13 PM
Speaking only for myself, one HUGE reason why I hated that outcome so much is because of how little respect the KU goody-two-shoes have for our program historically.

If you need a refresher, check this one out: http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131192&highlight=Woodling .

Dio
4/15/2010, 09:38 PM
I love that KU has made it out of the OKC sub-regional exactly once in four tries. Actually, I hate it that they made it out the one time.

Sooner24
4/15/2010, 11:47 PM
Watch until we get up 65-60. Maybe it's 66-60.

After that, run like hell. Get as far away from that TV as you possibly can.

I have never watched the game on Classic any time it has ever been on. I have the game on tape but for the life of me I don't know why.

That night, in Kemper Arena, was the saddest OU sports moment I have ever experienced. To this day I have never gotten over it. :(

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
4/16/2010, 12:20 AM
That's right, you hate him retroactive to 1990.I must have hated him then, even if I didn't know it.

PDXsooner
4/16/2010, 09:51 AM
For any gluttons for punishment out there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-FqB6C91c

Pricetag
4/16/2010, 12:29 PM
I have never watched the game on Classic any time it has ever been on. I have the game on tape but for the life of me I don't know why.

That night, in Kemper Arena, was the saddest OU sports moment I have ever experienced. To this day I have never gotten over it. :(
It's like Frodo's wound from the cursed blade in LOTR. OU could win ten NCs in basketball, and it would never remove the hurt. It shouldn't have happened.

OUmillenium
4/21/2010, 10:41 AM
Actually, winning 1 championship would really help the hurt, especially if a lot of the 88 guys were at the game or featured in some way leading in.

Not gonna happen soon, unfortunately.

Sooner95
4/21/2010, 08:56 PM
It was merely painful just to read this thread... Great season, but man that game sucks..

NMSooner'80
4/28/2010, 12:05 PM
It was merely painful just to read this thread... Great season, but man that game sucks..


Sorry about that. One reason I posted about it was that I got SO sick of hearing about how the Squawks were such a plucky underdog. They really underachieved until the NCAA tourney, then got every lucky break imaginable.

Then the self-proclaimed "class program" of the Big 8 and its fans really gloated incessantly, and no doubt still believe they won because they represented "good" to OU's "evil."

You'll also never convince me that their arrogant, holier-than-thou Squawk attitude wasn't a bit racially-tinged as well.

OUmillenium
4/29/2010, 08:30 AM
I pledge eternal hatred against kansas basketball

kc sooner
4/29/2010, 10:59 AM
I DESPISE ku!!

yermom
4/29/2010, 12:07 PM
i even pull for Texas against them

Red Ada
4/29/2010, 01:54 PM
I pledge eternal hatred against kansas basketball

You guy's need to lighten up. You are going to find your self (Bill Self),
unhappy most of the time.

If we had Self instead of Capel, we could be happy most of the time.

Of course he hates OU and OU fans.

As most of the nation does.

Red Ada
4/29/2010, 02:16 PM
1988 was a looooong, looong, time ago. Most SF were not yet born.
If our only claim to semi-fame was a runner up in 1988. It is now a DECADE
into the next century.
Talk about living in the past......Geeesh!

Capel and 13 -18 is what need's to be straightened out.
THAT is the here and now, that is the present not the past.

OUmillenium
4/30/2010, 09:46 AM
RED Ada, your dooshery sees no bounds, feel the bloody end of my sword Spexcalibur

Red Ada
5/1/2010, 04:22 PM
RED Ada, your dooshery sees no bounds, feel the bloody end of my sword Spexcalibur

I am unhappy with 13-18 season. I think the upcoming season is
much more important than what happened in 1988 (Ala to much
Danny Manning). That is history, we can not change it.

A change in direction is needed. Making that statement does not
make me the enemy. Just a realist who lives in the present, not
the past.

I have my season tickets set, you probably have your stubs from
1988.

I realize you are a OU fan. Just differing opinions.

Cheers:)

OUmillenium
5/3/2010, 10:41 AM
Cheers sucked. Sam was a dork.

Get out of the thread if you are not interested in history, it was made to discuss 88 not the present.