Calif to vote on marijuana legalization

[SanJoaquinSooner]

California voters will get to decide whether to legalize marijuana

By Peter Hecht
[email protected]

Published: Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2010 - 5:24 pm


California's intense argument over legalizing marijuana is headed to the ballot.

Secretary of State Debra Bowen confirmed Wednesday afternoon that voters will decide in November whether to legalize and tax marijuana use for Californians 21 and over.

As a result, Californians will determine how attitudes have evolved on marijuana since voters roundly rejected a 1972 initiative - Proposition 18 - that first set out to decriminalize pot use in the Golden State.

They will also weigh in on whether legalization is an appropriate next step to legal medical use approved b



The devil is in the details. I'm ok with adults doing what they want, but if any of them give pot to minors they should be executed.

[Crucifax Autumn]

No different from alcohol as far as the kids go.

[starclassic tama]

not nearly as harmful as alcohol

[Crucifax Autumn]

True enough, but I was referring to the legalities of providing it to minors.

[XingTheRubicon]

Won't be legal here in America in my lifetime and that's all I care about.

[BudSooner]

About 25 yrs ago had this been legal in Cali I would have loaded up the truck with little debbies and moved to Beverly.....Hills that is, smell the ganja?

Not now though, I just don't care for the stuff. I'm in the middle of suing McKee bakeries for making me fat back then. :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

LOL...I just think it's a great way to bring in money and give the cops and jails more resources for real criminals.

[ouleaf]

Is there a state that smokes more weed than California? If they pass this the tax revenues alone might pull California out of financial debt.

[JohnnyMack]

Keep the government away from my guns!

But, keep that dirty marijuana away from the hippies!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Is there a state that smokes more weed than California? If they pass this the tax revenues alone might pull California out of financial debt.

Further imagine this. They will be collecting a buttload of taxes from neighboring states, while those neighboring states make a buttload of money pulling over cars leaving California!

[yermom]

Is there a state that smokes more weed than California? If they pass this the tax revenues alone might pull California out of financial debt.

i think Colorado might try to :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

i think Colorado might try to :D

As soon as I know I don't face the possibility of a **** test Nevada will skyrocket into first. :D

[SanJoaquinSooner]

No different from alcohol as far as the kids go.

A few years after being students in my high school class, they might run into me around town and confess to attending my class high.

Here's the difference: you can easily tell when a 14 or 15 year old is drunk, but if they come to class high everyday, you might end up thinking they were just born stupid.

[Leroy Lizard]

They were.

[C&CDean]

Who gives a ****? Californians are already apathetic space-cadets who can't handle their finances or anything else. **** em', let em' all get wasted and be groovy and ****. That way when the big one comes they'll all just calmly sit around and go "duuuuuuude, that was righteously bitchen'. Quit bogarting the bong man..."

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Water is wet.

[Veritas]

Legalize it.

[TenkillerSooner]

Legalize it.

Don't criticize it...

[KHS Sooner]

Legalize and tax it.

You shouldn't be able to do it in public even if it is legalized, IMO.

[Half a Hundred]

I mean, how many ways to raise revenue are there that the people most heavily affected by it would overwhelmingly support?

[Veritas]

Hell, how much money does our government spend on interdiction of pot? How much taxpayer dollars do we spend putting up people in jail whose only "crime" is the possession or distribution of marijuana?

It's a plant for gawds sake. Legalize it already and let's enjoy some freed up tax dollars and a some cheetos.

[soonerboomer93]

mmmmm, cheetos

[olevetonahill]

And now we have the Stoner Isle :D
http://www.andrewmaule.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/norml_munchies.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

They should tax ferns.

[Crucifax Autumn]

^^^This^^^

[Crucifax Autumn]

huh...must be stoned...

[olevetonahill]

I kmay move to Cal. ****in PoPos :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm gonna store my ganja at Vet's new shack.

[Jacie]

I read an article about one group of Cali's who do not want to see this one pass . . . the citizens of Humboldt county, CA.

That is northern California and where some of the best (read: potent) weed is grown. It seems that the economy of Humboldt county used to be based in fishing and lumber, two industries that have gone by the wayside. The marijuana market keeps the county afloat, financially speaking. The people of Humboldt county think that if it is legalized, the price will drop and with it, their incomes.

Never thought I'd see the day when people who grow it (in this country, that is) don't want it legalized.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Wow...That's funny on so many levels...

[sooner59]

Legalize and tax it.

You shouldn't be able to do it in public even if it is legalized, IMO.

I can go with this.

[yermom]

yeah, like alcohol and cigarettes ;)

[Crucifax Autumn]

Hey, I pay those taxes daily.

[starclassic tama]

Won't be legal here in America in my lifetime and that's all I care about.

so you don't count the medicinal thing as being legal?

[badger]

Meh, people have been already doing this illegally for years. Might as well make it above-ground so that people can get educated about it and stuff. The whole weed thing has been taboo for a long time to the point that there are probably people out there that thing that if you smoke weed, you'll die.

[Condescending Sooner]

It is against federal law to possess marijuana. I keep hearing states can't opt out of Obamacare because they cannot bypass federal law. How can they do it in regards to marijuana?

[Harry Beanbag]

It is against federal law to possess marijuana. I keep hearing states can't opt out of Obamacare because they cannot bypass federal law. How can they do it in regards to marijuana?

Because it's a right to have healthcare and weed, man.

[OhU1]

The whole weed thing has been taboo for a long time to the point that there are probably people out there that thing that if you smoke weed, you'll die.

I think it's the opposite, the public has come to view weed as fairly harmless and inappropriately maligned by "refer madness" hype and other exaggerated harms by the old squares.

What I don't hear is much objective consideration regarding the long term health consequences of using weed. I caught a segment of a show on the BBC where they were showing the irreversible lung damage caused by smoking marijuana. Something to do with tiny holes or scar tissue being created in the lungs. The VO2 max of the person they were examining was very impaired.

I don't think occasional use of weed is probably that harmful but the lung damage is deal killer for me. Give me the THC in pill form and we'll talk.

[OklaPony]

not nearly as harmful as alcohol


I think it's the opposite, the public has come to view weed as fairly harmless and inappropriately maligned by "refer madness" hype and other exaggerated harms by the old squares.

What I don't hear is much objective consideration regarding the long term health consequences of using weed. I caught a segment of a show on the BBC where they were showing the irreversible lung damage caused by smoking marijuana. Something to do with tiny holes or scar tissue being created in the lungs. The VO2 max of the person they were examining was very impaired.

I don't think occasional use of weed is probably that harmful but the lung damage is deal killer for me. Give me the THC in pill form and we'll talk.
While I don't believe the part that I bolded above holds true for every pot smoker it clearly has adverse effects to some degree on nearly everyone. That being said I still think it's out of line that pot is treated so differently than alky. I mean, has anyone here ever encountered a "belligerent stoner"?

I didn't think so.

[AggieTool]

I kmay move to Cal. ****in PoPos :D

So Friday and Saturday nights you'll be posting from "StoneyTown"?:D

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm against legalizing it. Once they legalize it, they will never be able to ban it (see Prohibition) and any harmful effects will be permanent. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

If they tax it too high, they will create an underground market and the old problems will reappear.

Glad I left California.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I don't know, back when I smoked weed constantly I was in good shape, breathed easy, woke up in the morning with no problems...

When I quit weed I started having trouble breathing, puking almost every morning, and got fat and lazy...

[Leroy Lizard]

They call it "age."

[John Kochtoston]

It is against federal law to possess marijuana. I keep hearing states can't opt out of Obamacare because they cannot bypass federal law. How can they do it in regards to marijuana?

It will still be against federal law, and federal law enforcement will be perfectly able to arrest and prosecute marijuana users in Cali if it passes. However, the feds would have to pay for said arrests and prosecutions. The legalization folks are banking, I'm sure, on the low probability of this happening, since the feds usually don't usually waste resources on Hippy McStonerpants with a dime bag in his pocket.

[goingoneight]

I don't know, back when I smoked weed constantly I was in good shape, breathed easy, woke up in the morning with no problems...

When I quit weed I started having trouble breathing, puking almost every morning, and got fat and lazy...

Alcohol does way more damage than weed ever did. So do cigarettes. Yet those two industries are legal and help shaped America in terms of jobs and taxes.

[Leroy Lizard]

Alcohol does way more damage than weed ever did. So do cigarettes. Yet those two industries are legal and help shaped America in terms of jobs and taxes.

And our solution is to make marijuana legal and therefore more accessible so that it becomes more like alcohol and tobacco?

Why create a problem then try to solve it?

[olevetonahill]

So Friday and Saturday nights you'll be posting from "StoneyTown"?:D

Now theres an Idea :D

[olevetonahill]

I'm against legalizing it. Once they legalize it, they will never be able to ban it (see Prohibition) and any harmful effects will be permanent. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

If they tax it too high, they will create an underground market and the old problems will reappear.

Glad I left California.

Please go the **** back :rolleyes:

[Jacie]

And our solution is to make marijuana legal and therefore more accessible so that it becomes more like alcohol and tobacco?

Why create a problem then try to solve it?

Depends on what you define as a "problem" because if you think the War on Drugs is not in and of itself a problem then you haven't been paying much attention to current events for the last 20 years. This country conducted an experiment in the 1920's when it attempted through legislation to change people's attitude towards alcohol and it was no more successful than what is happening now with marijuana. Drug cartels in Mexico and other countries are the equivalent of what the Mafia was in the U.S. Making booze illegal fueled the growth of organized crime then just as drugs, marijuana being one of them, does for the cartels today. Now one state is going to ask it's citizens if they want to discontinue to label a sizable number of their own as criminals. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other since I live on the other side of the country from Cali. I simply find it silly to see this same tired argument against legalization trotted out yet again.

As for tobacco, there is an example of where the government inadvertantly got it right. I say inadvertantly because they tax it to raise revenue but in the process cull the number of users everytime they increase it, somewhat negating the purpose of the tax. The only problem that exists with it now is in states like New York where they allow the Native Americans to sell tobacco products untaxed due to treaties that are 300 years old and the government is kicking itself trying to figure out how to get the tribes to hand over some of that money they are making on it. Good luck with that!

[olevetonahill]

And our solution is to make marijuana legal and therefore more accessible so that it becomes more like alcohol and tobacco?

Why create a problem then try to solve it?

http://reason.com/assets/mc/_ATTIC/Image/jsullum/obama_smoking.png

Cause we gonna fix this health prob one way er tother :D

[Leroy Lizard]

Depends on what you define as a "problem" because if you think the War on Drugs is not in and of itself a problem then you haven't been paying much attention to current events for the last 20 years.

The War on Drugs is not going to end because we legalize marijuana. It will simply shift to more dangerous narcotics as kids realize that smoking pot no longer gives them the thrill of thumbing their nose at the law.

That is just the way our society operates. Legalize marijuana, and meth becomes the next fad. (Although it already is to a certain extent.)


This country conducted an experiment in the 1920's when it attempted through legislation to change people's attitude towards alcohol and it was no more successful than what is happening now with marijuana.

Alcohol was already legal in the U.S. and consumed LEGALLY and ACCEPTABLY throughout all levels of society. Before Prohibition, an esteemed gentleman could have a drink of brandy in front of dignitaries and it would have been socially acceptable. Banning alcohol was therefore bound to fail.

Pot use, on the other hand, is looked down on society and hasn't been legal for a very long time. If you legalize it, you end up with it becoming a problem like alcohol.


Drug cartels in Mexico and other countries are the equivalent of what the Mafia was in the U.S. Making booze illegal fueled the growth of organized crime then just as drugs, marijuana being one of them, does for the cartels today. Now one state is going to ask it's citizens if they want to discontinue to label a sizable number of their own as criminals. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other since I live on the other side of the country from Cali. I simply find it silly to see this same tired argument against legalization trotted out yet again.

We legalized alcohol and did the Mob disappear? No. In fact, the golden age of the Mob was in the 1950s, long after Prohibition was repealed.

You can't eliminate illegal activity by making things legal. Those with a criminal intent will simply push other things, like meth. The Mob did and became a huge pusher of narcotics.



As for tobacco, there is an example of where the government inadvertantly got it right. I say inadvertantly because they tax it to raise revenue but in the process cull the number of users everytime they increase it, somewhat negating the purpose of the tax. The only problem that exists with it now is in states like New York where they allow the Native Americans to sell tobacco products untaxed due to treaties that are 300 years old and the government is kicking itself trying to figure out how to get the tribes to hand over some of that money they are making on it. Good luck with that!

Without the Indians, you would have a huge black market for cigarettes that would only increase as you raise taxes on them. And with the black market comes the crime.

I don't want to see a huge portion of our kids stoned out of their minds. Legalizing marijuana will only increase their accessibility to the drug and lower its costs. Not worth it.

[delhalew]

The biggest danger to our children right now is prescription drugs.
Legalizing marijuana will have next to no negative effect.

[olevetonahill]

The War on Drugs is not going to end because we legalize marijuana. It will simply shift to more dangerous narcotics as kids realize that smoking pot no longer gives them the thrill of thumbing their nose at the law.

That is just the way our society operates. Legalize marijuana, and meth becomes the next fad. (Although it already is to a certain extent.)



Alcohol was already legal in the U.S. and consumed LEGALLY and ACCEPTABLY throughout all levels of society. Before Prohibition, an esteemed gentleman could have a drink of brandy in front of dignitaries and it would have been socially acceptable. Banning alcohol was therefore bound to fail.

Pot use, on the other hand, is looked down on society and hasn't been legal for a very long time. If you legalize it, you end up with it becoming a problem like alcohol.



We legalized alcohol and did the Mob disappear? No. In fact, the golden age of the Mob was in the 1950s, long after Prohibition was repealed.

You can't eliminate illegal activity by making things legal. Those with a criminal intent will simply push other things, like meth. The Mob did and became a huge pusher of narcotics.

.


The Bold parts that you said Proves to me yer an IDIOT
Hell LL at the start of the 1900s OPIUM was legal here, Pot was just a weed , Cocaine was in COKE A COLA
Back up an smell the coffee ! :pop:

[Leroy Lizard]

Hell LL at the start of the 1900s OPIUM was legal here, Pot was just a weed , Cocaine was in COKE A COLA

You missed the part where I said "pot hasn't been legal for a very long time.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Alcohol was already legal in the U.S. and consumed LEGALLY and ACCEPTABLY throughout all levels of society. Before Prohibition, an esteemed gentleman could have a drink of brandy in front of dignitaries and it would have been socially acceptable. Banning alcohol was therefore bound to fail.

Pot use, on the other hand, is looked down on society and hasn't been legal for a very long time. If you legalize it, you end up with it becoming a problem like alcohol.

Oh how wrong you are. Pot was fine until the 1937 when it was outlawed. Lets not forget the Supreme Court in the 1960's found the Marijuana Stamp Act unconstitutional. Pot is illegal for all the wrong reasons.

Here are some quotes from Harry J. Anslinger who was head of the Bureau of Narcotics when marijuana was made illegal.

“There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others.”

“…the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races.”

“Marijuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death.”

“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”

“Marihuana leads to pacifism and communist brainwashing”

“You smoke a joint and you’re likely to kill your brother.”

“Marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind.”


Now we can go to the newspapers of the time. William Randolf Hearst owned a news empire and was against marijuana and helped "swing" the population against it.

“Marihuana makes fiends of boys in thirty days — Hashish goads users to bloodlust.”

“By the tons it is coming into this country — the deadly, dreadful poison that racks and tears not only the body, but the very heart and soul of every human being who once becomes a slave to it in any of its cruel and devastating forms…. Marihuana is a short cut to the insane asylum. Smoke marihuana cigarettes for a month and what was once your brain will be nothing but a storehouse of horrid specters. Hasheesh makes a murderer who kills for the love of killing out of the mildest mannered man who ever laughed at the idea that any habit could ever get him….”

Users of marijuana become STIMULATED as they inhale the drug and are LIKELY TO DO ANYTHING. Most crimes of violence in this section, especially in country districts are laid to users of that drug.”

“Was it marijuana, the new Mexican drug, that nerved the murderous arm of Clara Phillips when she hammered out her victim’s life in Los Angeles?… THREE-FOURTHS OF THE CRIMES of violence in this country today are committed by DOPE SLAVES — that is a matter of cold record.”

Pot wasn't made illegal because it's "bad" but because the idiots at the time just didn't like it.

[Jacie]

Pot wasn't made illegal because it's "bad" but because the idiots at the time just didn't like it.

Then there is the Dupont Theory of the criminalization of marijuana consumption . . .

[yankee]

The War on Drugs is not going to end because we legalize marijuana. It will simply shift to more dangerous narcotics as kids realize that smoking pot no longer gives them the thrill of thumbing their nose at the law.



i don't know anyone that smokes weed just for "thumbing their noses at the law." they do it because they enjoy it and want to get high.

i like what someone said earlier...legalize it, tax it, but keep it out of public spaces.

[Leroy Lizard]

Oh how wrong you are. Pot was fine until the 1937 when it was outlawed.

Gee, that sounds like a very long time to me.


Lets not forget the Supreme Court in the 1960's found the Marijuana Stamp Act unconstitutional. Pot is illegal for all the wrong reasons.

Other than for historical purposes, it doesn't make any difference why they banned it 70 years ago no more than it makes any difference why Prohibition was instituted.

The quote from Anslinger just reinforces my statement that legalizing pot and alcohol are almost completely different. As he demonstrates, pot was looked down on by society (which I stated previously) and was not consumed at anything close to the extent as alcohol.

[Leroy Lizard]

i don't know anyone that smokes weed just for "thumbing their noses at the law."

I think you underestimate our society. (Or is it overestimate?)

[sooneron]

I think we'd all be happier if Leroy smoked a jay or two ....

it might kill the bug up his ***.

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm not the one crying, "we gotta legalize it! We gotta legalize it!"

[Leroy Lizard]

One question: Can California collect taxes on the sale of substance banned by the federal government?

[sooneron]

Yes, and it does in the clinics and places where it can be obtained via scrip.I thought you were smart. :mack:

[Leroy Lizard]

Sheesh, I just asked a simple question. You potheads sure get cranky. Not enough Doritos in the house?

[sooneron]

Haven't had a hit since Bill was in office.

[Leroy Lizard]

Oh... so you've moved on up?

[sooneron]

If by "moving on up" do you mean "well beyond your tax bracket?" Then, yes.

[Leroy Lizard]

Aren't you afraid of getting caught?

[yankee]

I think you underestimate our society. (Or is it overestimate?)

dude i'm 19 years old and i see this **** every day. 2 of my roommates are your typical potheads, and they don't smoke to stick it to the feds. i drink, but i don't do it to defy laws. i do it because i enjoy it and i like to have a good time.

[yermom]

Aren't you afraid of getting caught?

for getting high 10+ years ago? :confused:

[delhalew]

I'm a cocaine, pills, and a glass of whiskey type of guy myself. :pop:

[olevetonahill]

I'm not the one crying, "we gotta legalize it! We gotta legalize it!"


Sheesh, I just asked a simple question. You potheads sure get cranky. Not enough Doritos in the house?

Say What ?
:rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

I took the time to open this thread to read that?!?!

[olevetonahill]

I took the time to open this thread to read that?!?!

LL does it HURT to be that stupid ?:eek:

[yermom]

I'm a cocaine, pills, and a glass of whiskey type of guy myself. :pop:

i had no idea Rush posted on this board :D

[delhalew]

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