Is it time to end affirmative action?

[Big Red Ron]

What's wrong with a meritocracy?

Nixon started it, Obama should end it.

[My Opinion Matters]

Serious question: has anyone here actually had their career path hindered as a result of affirmative action?

[CrimsonandCreamForever]

My father has. In his younger days, he was very close to becoming a Missouri Highway Patrolman. The captain he was dealing with said they couldn't offer him the position because they had to fill their minority quota.

[Big Red Ron]

I was accepted on my merrit to Brown Law school but was passed over for an african American woman with lower test scores and grades. Thier quota system zapped me, so yes.

[Big Red Ron]

Poor whites get hit the worst and it happens way more than you think. anytime a school uses a quota system people get screwed every year. Way more than you might think.

[Big Red Ron]

Like I said, why not have individuals rise and fall on their own merits, rather than gender or color?

[yermom]

i don't think they call it that anymore. now it's "diversity" or "multicultural" or somesuch

[My Opinion Matters]

Poor whites get hit the worst and it happens way more than you think. anytime a school uses a quota system people get screwed every year. Way more than you might think.

Oh, believe me, I probably understand that better than most people. Once upon a time a younger, much poorer version of myself went looking for financial assistance for school and was asked the following: "Do you have any dependent children?" "Are you a recovering drug or alcohol addict?" "Are you unemployed?" After answering "no" to roughly a half-dozen questions like this I was politely informed they could be of no assistance to me.

[Big Red Ron]

i don't think they call it that anymore. now it's "diversity" or "multicultural" or somesuch
LIPSTICK ON A PIG

[Big Red Ron]

Oh, believe me, I probably understand that better than most people. Once upon a time a younger, much poorer version of myself went looking for financial assistance for school and was asked the following: "Do you have any dependent children?" "Are you a recovering drug or alcohol addict?" "Are you unemployed?" After answering "no" to roughly a half-dozen questions like this I was politely informed they could be of no assistance to me.Exactly, not exactly what Dr. King's dream was about.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Serious question: has anyone here actually had their career path hindered as a result of affirmative action?

Early in my career, I got a teaching position with Norman Public Schools. I believe being male was an advantage, since both the principal and the assistant superintendent who interviewed me commented that there was a shortage of male teachers not named Coach.

They believed students needed a few male role models who were academically oriented.


So, I believe I was the benefit of an informal affirmative action.

[Big Red Ron]

Early in my career, I got a teaching position with Norman Public Schools. I believe being male was an advantage, since both the principal and the assistant superintendent who interviewed me commented that there was a shortage of male teachers not named Coach.

They believed students needed a few male role models who were academically oriented.


So, I believe I was the benefit of an informal affirmative action.Wow, thats totally out of the norm.

[PDXsooner]

affirmative action is racism. it should be illegal.

[Big Red Ron]

affirmative action is racism. it should be illegal.
indeed it is.:pop:

[OU Adonis]

I always thought it was a bad fix for a serious issue.

Instead of fixing why some minorities have lower scores (Better schools, crime prevention) we will just let them in with lower scores.

P.S I know it covers more than admission standards, but that always irrated the hell out of me.

[OUMallen]

Serious question: has anyone here actually had their career path hindered as a result of affirmative action?

My scores on the PSAT as a Caucasian male left me one sub-SUB-point away from National Merit. (Read- one little question away.)


If I could have claimed minority status, I would have been a National Merit Finalist.

They have since changed that scoring, I believe. One year, my "merit" isn't enough because I'm white, then later they change it so that my merit would have bene good enough.

So, yeah, it can have pretty ****ty outcomes. Major financial outcomes.

[JLEW1818]

Poor whites get hit the worst and it happens way more than you think. anytime a school uses a quota system people get screwed every year. Way more than you might think.

absolutely, i know many whites who can't get financial aid even though they make less money than others.......


as Bill Cosby says, "by accepting affirmative action, you are saying the other race is better than you."

[fadada1]

my wife almost didn't get the job she has now because of such practices. they had actually "hired" the minority woman ahead of her, but up on checking her references... not so good (lied). beneficiary... my wife. her (now) boss was pissed the whole situation.

[Condescending Sooner]

I sat next to a dude in college that was on a full ride because of his minority status. I was living off Ramen noodles and couldn't get a scholarship even though I was on the honor roll every semester. He tried to cheat off me on tests cause he was dumber than a bucket of hair.

So yeah, I've felt the results.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

It should end as Obammy is now "the man" and everything has been righted.

[lexsooner]

Don't forget, if you want to end aa or preferences of any kind, you must also do away with preferences for students from rural areas in certain professional schools where there is a shortage in these areas, no breaks for athletes at universities, no preferences at prestigious schools for students from less-common backgrounds, i.e. lower income, from places like Eastern Kentucky, Oklahoma, etc. The competitive schools would be loaded with almost all kids from upper middle class suburban or urban backgrounds who attended the best schools. Heck, if you got rid of rich, connected kid preferences, i.e. Bush at Yale, the Ivy League student bodies would probably be mostly Jewish and Asian. How happy would white, gentile, America be with that? The point is, don't wish too hard for something . . . you might get it. If you really want this, the implications are probably much more wide-sweeping than you can ever imagine.

[OhU1]

Affirmative Action is based on one criteria - race. Race is a dubious concept to begin with as it relates to how someone looks rather than whom or what they are. The single race based criteria is the problem IMO.

The unwritten underlying premise of AA is that merely being a member of a particular racial group makes someone "disadvantaged". "Disadvantaged" also has the connotation of being not as capable, competent, and having a lowered expectation of performance. Minority professionals also suffer a stigma based on perceptions and presumptions regarding affirmative action.

For the few that are helped I believe more are hurt by AA in 2010. If someone still needs AA to qualify for academic admission in 2010 are you doing them any favors by putting them in a school where they cannot realistically compete?

The issue of preferences is not an all or nothing proposition. Eliminating the single racial criteria does not mean we could not still have preferences based on less arbitrary criteria such as income, social background, and the needs of society for rural doctors and the like.

The Ivy league schools are private and they do have a disproportionate percentage of Asian and Jewish students. I've never heard anyone complain about that because these students earned their admission based on merit and academic achievement.

[Scott D]

For as bad as AA is perceived to be, a true 'meritocracy' is just as big of a failure.

[Big Red Ron]

For as bad as AA is perceived to be, a true 'meritocracy' is just as big of a failure.
please explain

[John Kochtoston]

Affirmative action should begin to move from race-based fixes to economic-based fixes, IMHO.

[Big Red Ron]

Affirmative action should begin to move from race-based fixes to economic-based fixes, IMHO.
I can go with that.

[Big Red Ron]

For as bad as AA is perceived to be, a true 'meritocracy' is just as big of a failure.
Main Entry: mer·i·toc·ra·cy
Pronunciation: \ˌmer-ə-ˈtä-krə-sē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural mer·i·toc·ra·cies
Etymology: 1merit + -o- + -cracy
Date: 1958
1 : a system (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meritocracy#) in which the talented are chosen and moved ahead on the basis of their achievement
2 : leadership (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meritocracy#) selected on the basis of intellectual criteria.

I see nothing wrong with the most talented rising to the top.

[Scott D]

because quite simply put, that's not how it'll end up. It will revert to a worsening of the situation where the opportunities aren't based on who has earned it, but by who knows who.

A more talented ******rocket isn't going to be picked over a guy who may be less talented, but made a better impression with the powers that be. That's not exactly rewarding by merit.

Truthfully, for all of it's flaws, I think AA is used more as a crutch these days by those who make decisions when they're looking for the cheaper out. Much in the same way how Title XI gets blamed when schools cut male sports programs in cost cutting moves.

[Scott D]

And I should addendum, I'm not saying that your idea is bad. But, it much like affirmative action is something that works much better in theory than in practice.

[Collier11]

AA needs to go

[delhalew]

Fighting racial inequality with racism. Go Gub'ment!!!

I wish people would extend this arguement to its logical conclusion concerning ALL social justice/equality and"fairness" policies.

[Big Red Ron]

AA needs to go
werd

[Harry Beanbag]

because quite simply put, that's not how it'll end up. It will revert to a worsening of the situation where the opportunities aren't based on who has earned it, but by who knows who.

A more talented ******rocket isn't going to be picked over a guy who may be less talented, but made a better impression with the powers that be. That's not exactly rewarding by merit.



Moral to your story: don't be a ******rocket.

[swardboy]

I'd settle for a ****** rocket President over a Maoist.

And isn't it "natural" for the survival of the fittest to guide all selection?

[Big Red Ron]

I'd settle for a ****** rocket President over a Maoist.

And isn't it "natural" for the survival of the fittest to guide all selection?Indeed Sir.

[Scott D]

Moral to your story: don't be a ******rocket.

ahh but it's not about being a ******rocket, it's about merit because it's without fault ;)

oh and in my company they'll pick a ******rocket every time over someone whether or not they have the merit. They prefer ******rockets in positions of power.

[olevetonahill]

And I should addendum, I'm not saying that your idea is bad. But, it much like affirmative action is something that works much better in theory than in practice.

So yer sayin its kinda sorta Like this health care dealio ?

[lexsooner]

Affirmative Action is based on one criteria - race. Race is a dubious concept to begin with as it relates to how someone looks rather than whom or what they are. The single race based criteria is the problem IMO.

The unwritten underlying premise of AA is that merely being a member of a particular racial group makes someone "disadvantaged". "Disadvantaged" also has the connotation of being not as capable, competent, and having a lowered expectation of performance. Minority professionals also suffer a stigma based on perceptions and presumptions regarding affirmative action.

For the few that are helped I believe more are hurt by AA in 2010. If someone still needs AA to qualify for academic admission in 2010 are you doing them any favors by putting them in a school where they cannot realistically compete?

The issue of preferences is not an all or nothing proposition. Eliminating the single racial criteria does not mean we could not still have preferences based on less arbitrary criteria such as income, social background, and the needs of society for rural doctors and the like.

The Ivy league schools are private and they do have a disproportionate percentage of Asian and Jewish students. I've never heard anyone complain about that because these students earned their admission based on merit and academic achievement.

The alumni and other well-connected folks cried big time - perhaps not publically, but they definitely intervened. That is why earlier in the 20th century the Ivies kept the number of Jewish students down, and more recently Asians have been capped by Ivy League administrations. This is an example of the big fallacy of thinking we would have a meritocracy if AA was eliminated. The fact is those in power and influence want their own, whether their own relatives, friends or those of friends in power, to get the goods, whether they are deserving or not. Daddy Bush wanted W to get into Yale, even though W's grades and test scores were more UT material and not even close to being Yale caliber. Does anyone think for split second Sr. Bush felt it would not be fair in a meritocracy for W to get into Yale? Illinois started a really fine Math and Science school some years ago, and not surprisingly a huge number of Asian kids from good suburban schools got it, and suddenly the conservative rural folks in Illinois cried foul. I would suspect many of these same folks are against AA, but when it becomes more of a meritocracy and their own kids cannot cut it, they scream bloody murder. So much for a meritocracy.

[sooner59]

I'd settle for a ****** rocket President over a Maoist.

And isn't it "natural" for the survival of the fittest to guide all selection?

Frag just got a boner. :D

[jkjsooner]

I personally think that if they want to help out minorities, the best way to do it is use something like income as a determination. It would help out underprivileged minorities while at the same time be much less divisive.

There is no reason that Obama's children should get preferential treatment over a white or asian child who grew up in poverty in Appalachia.

If we must do so, use some measure that actually shows who is disadvantaged.

Edit: Just realized I was the bazzilionth person to say this in this thread.

[JLEW1818]

why not just make it the best man/women gets the job

a black man holds the highest power in the world.

[Collier11]

no black man should ever get a job over Jlew, STEP tells me he has a tiny weenus and that my friends puts him at the greatest disadvantage a man can have

[JLEW1818]

i hate whites

[Collier11]

you hate to whipe?

[JLEW1818]

ha!, guess i will be buying some spring game tickets soon. aint been to a spring game in a very very long time. we need to have a slumber-party at your house, step too. and his wifey :D

i wanna play with ur cat!

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I couldn't agree more. Best man/woman for the job. And if that means giving 'em worker visas, then so be it.

[JLEW1818]

they should make all of mexico "legal US citizens"

it is the right thing to do

[yermom]

The alumni and other well-connected folks cried big time - perhaps not publically, but they definitely intervened. That is why earlier in the 20th century the Ivies kept the number of Jewish students down, and more recently Asians have been capped by Ivy League administrations. This is an example of the big fallacy of thinking we would have a meritocracy if AA was eliminated. The fact is those in power and influence want their own, whether their own relatives, friends or those of friends in power, to get the goods, whether they are deserving or not. Daddy Bush wanted W to get into Yale, even though W's grades and test scores were more UT material and not even close to being Yale caliber. Does anyone think for split second Sr. Bush felt it would not be fair in a meritocracy for W to get into Yale? Illinois started a really fine Math and Science school some years ago, and not surprisingly a huge number of Asian kids from good suburban schools got it, and suddenly the conservative rural folks in Illinois cried foul. I would suspect many of these same folks are against AA, but when it becomes more of a meritocracy and their own kids cannot cut it, they scream bloody murder. So much for a meritocracy.

maybe then white kids would get off their asses and learn math and science ;)

[SanJoaquinSooner]

The alumni and other well-connected folks cried big time - perhaps not publically, but they definitely intervened. That is why earlier in the 20th century the Ivies kept the number of Jewish students down, and more recently Asians have been capped by Ivy League administrations. This is an example of the big fallacy of thinking we would have a meritocracy if AA was eliminated. The fact is those in power and influence want their own, whether their own relatives, friends or those of friends in power, to get the goods, whether they are deserving or not. Daddy Bush wanted W to get into Yale, even though W's grades and test scores were more UT material and not even close to being Yale caliber. Does anyone think for split second Sr. Bush felt it would not be fair in a meritocracy for W to get into Yale? Illinois started a really fine Math and Science school some years ago, and not surprisingly a huge number of Asian kids from good suburban schools got it, and suddenly the conservative rural folks in Illinois cried foul. I would suspect many of these same folks are against AA, but when it becomes more of a meritocracy and their own kids cannot cut it, they scream bloody murder. So much for a meritocracy.

You hear complaints about this in California with the UC system's disproportionate number of students of Asian descent. But the truth is, their Asian parents were planning Med school for their kid when he/she was still in the womb. Everything they do as a family revolves around preparing their children for academic success.

My wife used to teach Spanish in an after-school program for elementary school students. The majority of the students who signed up were Asian. and then on Friday nights they send their kids to Chinese language classes. And then they send their kids to Kumon (math school) and piano lessons. Science, they tutor them themselves.

If they are dissatisfied with the quality of school assignments, they will supplement with additional work.

[yermom]

all the really successful kids i knew in school did the majority of their learnin' outside of school, mostly due to their parents. i was kinda one of those kids, but kinda not

i'd really think about doing Kumon for my kids if i had them, i did a little of it, but i was too old when my school started it

[olevetonahill]

why not just make it the best man/women gets the job

a black man holds the biggest **** in the world.:eek:

[Collier11]

ha!, guess i will be buying some spring game tickets soon. aint been to a spring game in a very very long time. we need to have a slumber-party at your house, step too. and his wifey :D

i wanna play with ur cat!

you can hang out in the back room with STEP and my cat, she likes her butt petted. Ill play with my GF and STEPS wifey :eek: :D

[Big Red Ron]

iT'D BE LIKE MAKING ME THE POINT GUARD FOR THE tHUNDER BECAUSE THE WHITE GUY QUOTA HASN'T BEEN MET. SHEESH AA IS RACISM.

[Crucifax Autumn]

You hear complaints about this in California with the UC system's disproportionate number of students of Asian descent. But the truth is, their Asian parents were planning Med school for their kid when he/she was still in the womb. Everything they do as a family revolves around preparing their children for academic success.

My wife used to teach Spanish in an after-school program for elementary school students. The majority of the students who signed up were Asian. and then on Friday nights they send their kids to Chinese language classes. And then they send their kids to Kumon (math school) and piano lessons. Science, they tutor them themselves.

If they are dissatisfied with the quality of school assignments, they will supplement with additional work.

First off, you're making racial stereotypes. You should be more sensitive and realize there are dumb Asians and not all of them act this way. :P


Second off, where are the King of the Hill jokes????


Not only do they do all that, but they also have violin lessons so they can be musical genius like Yo Yo Ma!!!!

[yermom]

are you Chinese or Japanese?

what ocean?

:D

[Crucifax Autumn]

Laotian!

:D

[lexsooner]

I'm ok with AA if it is practiced as it should be (which is often not the case). The intent of AA was never to hire or promote unqualified or marginally qualified minorities, disabled, women, but rather give preference to these groups among the qualified. I'm also fine with favoritism in helping those from lower income backgrounds, rural backgrounds, like letting a poor white kid from the mountains of Eastern Ky. into a prestigious university with strong but somewhat lesser test scores than a rich kid from an Eastern prep school background. I would never support letting in such kids if they are academically unqualified, but if they have strong academics and can make it, give them a chance.

That being said, I again point out we do not live in a perfect world, and just as AA is often not carried out appropriately, a world without AA would not be a meritocracy, and to think so is a false assumption. Over the years, the upper management in my workplace is full of examples of both AA gone wrong, unqualified/marginally qualified minorities, and the flip side, marginal non-minorities who were far from being the most qualified, even downright unqualified good ol boys who could not write a complete sentence if their lives depended on it.

[OhU1]

You make some good points Lex.

I have come to the conclusion that much of life is a struggle for limited resources and if a person cannot obtain their wants and needs with merit (skill, talent, ect.) then few people will not resort to connections and politics to get what they want. To me AA is a form of using politics under the guise of "social justice" to re-distribute spoils to a political constituency .

One of the things I strongly dislike about AA and political schemes like it is that the individual is subordinate to the social engineering goal of achieving a group outcome. An individual can only be responsible for their own life. AA runs counter to some core principles our nation and social work ethic is founded on IMO.

Discrimination should be strongly punished in our socitey. Discrimination should not used as the remedy for past discrimination.

[soonerscuba]

I was accepted on my merrit to Brown Law school but was passed over for an african American woman with lower test scores and grades. Thier quota system zapped me, so yes.If your going to make outrageous lies about how smart you are, in the future I would choose a law school that actually exists.

[My Opinion Matters]

Now that's pretty damn funny.

[Big Red Ron]

If your going to make outrageous lies about how smart you are, in the future I would choose a law school that actually exists.
Sorry, it's been 25 years. It was actually Cornell. I was going to go to Brown for Applied Mathmatics.

[Big Red Ron]

BTW Scuba, did you know that White women have gained more from AA than anyone?

[Big Red Ron]

And if you must know, a booty call got pregnant and found Jesus, therefore I stayed in Oklahoma and became a mear OU grad and have since been named the "Most Accurate Pollster in Oklahoma" by Survey USA.

[My Opinion Matters]

You really nailed the presidential election, Nostradamus.

I'm glad you said it.

[Big Red Ron]

I'm glad you said it.I never Polled it. I just offered my opinion. It's not my fault a few % points of Americans were dumb enough to buy his BS.

[Big Red Ron]

I seem to have nailed the AA debate.

[My Opinion Matters]

I never Polled it. I just offered my opinion. It's not my fault a few % points of Americans were dumb enough to buy his BS.

No sense digging up old dirt, but evidence suggests I'm better at your job than you are, and I didn't even apply to a fancy made-up law school.

[Big Red Ron]

Look D bag, I poll in Oklahoma, not nationally. Guess what not a single county in Oklahoma voted for Obama. You know squat about whats going on in America. It's going to end as we know in within 50 years, hide and watch.

[My Opinion Matters]

I'm just going to leave this (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123658) here.

[Big Red Ron]

I'm just going to leave this (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123658) here.and I'll leave this from that.


If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to eat my crow.

Obama has outspent McCain 4-1, which is HUGE when we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars.

Reading other's polling and cobbling together an educated guess is much more difficult than picking a side and saying HA HA. You astound me, you're almost as bright as KC.




If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to eat my crow.

Obama has outspent McCain 4-1, which is HUGE when we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars.

[lexsooner]

And if you must know, a booty call got pregnant and found Jesus, therefore I stayed in Oklahoma and became a mear OU grad and have since been named the "Most Accurate Pollster in Oklahoma" by Survey USA.

Maybe Cornell Law turned you down because you could not spell "mere."

[lexsooner]

I seem to have nailed the AA debate.

You mean that brilliant analogy above about you playing point guard for the Thunder? Yeah, that nailed it and put an end to any debate on this thread.

[Big Red Ron]

Maybe Cornell Law turned you down because you could not spell "mere."Or maybe its because I have a broken neck and am typing with one finger?

[Big Red Ron]

How's Kansas City's NBA team doing BTW?

[lexsooner]

OK, as much as it's fun to kick a guy around when he stated numerous times that the "internal poll numbers" that he was seeing from the McCain campaign were very favorable or that there was a "statistical dead heat" in the publicly-available polls, he's obviously not going to respond.

In the interest of letting BRR come back to the site with some dignity, I'm going to lock this up as having run its useful life-cycle.

I will, however, stick my tongue out one more time. :p

That's about as smart as Dean stating the polls were invalid because the liberal racists who told pollsters they would vote for Obama would wimp out on election day and not vote for a black candidate since so many liberals are really racists.

[OUMallen]

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/Upload/thread%20sucks/normal_Thread-I_like_where_this_thread_is_going.jpg

[lexsooner]

Or maybe its because I have a broken neck and am typing with one finger?

Or maybe it is because some black guy broke into your house and shot you while you were writing the post. That seems like a better story.

[Big Red Ron]

Or maybe it is because some black guy broke into your house and shot you while you were writing the post. That seems like a better story.
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140194

[OhU1]

Can you hit a target at 1000 yards?

[Collier11]

with a spotter

[Crucifax Autumn]

Or maybe it is because some black guy broke into your house and shot you while you were writing the post. That seems like a better story.

That TOTALLY just happened to me!

[Collier11]

did you ask him to shoot you :eek:

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yeah, and I've been trying to get the white stuff out of my eye since.

[Collier11]

:eek:

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm tyoing blind I tell ya!

[Half a Hundred]

If you're going to talk about this stuff, the first thing you have to realize is that there ain't no such thing as a "white" person. What's called "white privilege" is actually upper-class privilege. If you're middle and working class, being "white" only means that TPTB can keep taking a dump on you, and when you protest, tell you to STFU and appreciate how good you have it under their oppressive thumb.

Affirmative action is nothing but divide and conquer. Identity politics keeps us separated rather than united in common interests. It's a fraud, and we need to let it go.

[Scott D]

If you're going to talk about this stuff, the first thing you have to realize is that there ain't no such thing as a "white" person. What's called "white privilege" is actually upper-class privilege. If you're middle and working class, being "white" only means that TPTB can keep taking a dump on you, and when you protest, tell you to STFU and appreciate how good you have it under their oppressive thumb.

Affirmative action is nothing but divide and conquer. Identity politics keeps us separated rather than united in common interests. It's a fraud, and we need to let it go.

It's the American way.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Stupid brown people hogging up ll the money!!!!

[yermom]

and women. don't forget the women

[Crucifax Autumn]

Them too! And kill all the cats stealing my jorb!

[JLEW1818]

2 tits per women, for the most part

guys, we are out numbered with titties!!!

[lexsooner]

That TOTALLY just happened to me!

Wow, me too! Black dude capped me with a .357, trying to steal my fortune and run off with my blonde wife. And when I was driving myself to the hospital, some illegal alien Mexican with no insurance hit my car. When they took me to the hospital, some Asian doctor messed me up bad. I tried to sue, but a Jew lawyer screwed me over. Dang it, can't get any breaks in this country with all this affirmative action crap!

[JLEW1818]

lol

[Turd_Ferguson]

I lost my job as a prOn star because of AA.:mad:

[lexsooner]

I lost my job as a prOn star because of AA.:mad:

Hey, in that case it was a meritocracy. I mean, it's twooo!

[JLEW1818]

i was a porn star, but i got fat

[OhU1]

i was a porn star, but i got fat

Are you the Ron Jeremy? :eek:

(Man that guy is gross)

[bonkuba]

Yep

[OklahomaRed]

Keep on laughing. In the meantime you are getting ready to pay for that illegal immigrant's health insurance, and the native americans are going to keep taking money from the government with one hand (tax free) and money from the redneck with the other hand at their casinos, while the african american's children are going to take your kid's spot (free of charge) in to college, and the asian is just going to outwork you. You're stuck with your guns, your alcohol, and your bad sense of humor! :D Won't be some da*$ funny then? ;)

I say it's time to level the playing field. Heck, aren't we a bunch of "mutts" anyway? Just what % of what do you have to be to keep calling yourself a minority or a native american? Give me a frickin' break and quit making it offensive and a joke to say it's not right, and lets see if we can reverse the trend, cause one of these days the government is going to go to the well and the well is going to be dry! :eek:

[lexsooner]

Keep on laughing. In the meantime you are getting ready to pay for that illegal immigrant's health insurance, and the native americans are going to keep taking money from the government with one hand (tax free) and money from the redneck with the other hand at their casinos, while the african american's children are going to take your kid's spot (free of charge) in to college, and the asian is just going to outwork you. You're stuck with your guns, your alcohol, and your bad sense of humor! :D Won't be some da*$ funny then? ;)

I say it's time to level the playing field. Heck, aren't we a bunch of "mutts" anyway? Just what % of what do you have to be to keep calling yourself a minority or a native american? Give me a frickin' break and quit making it offensive and a joke to say it's not right, and lets see if we can reverse the trend, cause one of these days the government is going to go to the well and the well is going to be dry! :eek:

So what do all but one of your examples above have to do with affirmative action? The U.S. Constitution and many treaties between the U.S. and various tribes mandate tribal sovereignty and whatever benefits they receive from the U.S. Illegals getting benefits has nothing to do with affirmative action either. As fare as Asians outworking everyone else, that is fulfilling the American dream, it seems to me, and it is what we want to see from everyone in this country, so more power to them. So the only example related to AA is African American kids supposedly taking your kids' slot in school, free of cost. I have known many African Americans, and none I know have gone to college or professional school free of cost or underservedly got into college. When you say "level the playing field," do you mean rewrite the Constitution and violate the treaties with the tribes, punish Asians for having the nerve to work hard to realize the American dream? I'm not sure what you mean.