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PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 04:20 AM
rejoice! america is a better country today! Nice work obama, 7 more years to make this country better!

SicEmBaylor
3/22/2010, 04:23 AM
rejoice! america is a better country today! Nice work obama, 7 more years to make this country better!

I'm going to ask you what I ask every liberal friend of mine. Where is the Constitutional authorization for the nationalization and/or regulation of the healthcare industry?

I get all sorts of amused when liberals scream about the importance of the Constitution when it comes to civil liberties, but when it comes to huge new entitlement programs involving powers not enumerated to the Federal government then the Constitution seems to matter a lot less. Either you accept all of the Constitution or you accept none of it.

I also get amused when conservatives do the same **** with gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, etc.

I had a liberal friend of mine who is a political consultant out of Dallas tell me tonight, "Well it isn't Constitutional strictly speaking but it's a universal human right." As if a universal "human right" supersedes the Constitution. I mean I don't accept the premise of the argument but the idea that some arbitrary "human right" is greater than the highest law of the land is insane.

Collier11
3/22/2010, 04:56 AM
3 more years to completely bankrupt the country... more like it

MrJimBeam
3/22/2010, 05:17 AM
Hoorah for us, we're just like every other quasi tyrannical, bankrupt, nanny-state. USA! USA ! USA!

SoonerJack
3/22/2010, 07:43 AM
I think I'm gonna puke.

Sooner in Tampa
3/22/2010, 07:45 AM
That was sarcasm...right?

XingTheRubicon
3/22/2010, 08:13 AM
no, he's that simple

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 08:34 AM
I dont know, which pseudo-meltdown is funnier... The outcries against the 1 thread in 10 rooting for a left viewpoint over a right viewpoint or the gnashing of teeth over the thing actually passing.

Bourbon St Sooner
3/22/2010, 08:39 AM
Gimme back that fillet o'fish
Gimme that fish

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 09:36 AM
Heh.

Veritas
3/22/2010, 09:58 AM
Please don't feed the trolls.

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 10:05 AM
What's Ironic is I was watching that Food Revolution show on ABC last night when they broke in to say ZeroCare had passed.

Ironic because Jamie Oliver, the host of the show Food Revolution, was trying to change the food menu at a public school in WV which is mandated by the FDA and that is probably killing them.

The federal government has just inserted itself into our everyday lives just the same way , and here is a show showing what a massive failure centralized planning is.

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 10:13 AM
What's Ironic is I was watching that Food Revolution show on ABC last night when they broke in to say ZeroCare had passed.

Ironic because Jamie Oliver, the host of the show Food Revolution, was trying to change the food menu at a public school in WV which is mandated by the FDA and that is probably killing them.

The federal government has just inserted itself into our everyday lives just the same way , and here is a show showing what a massive failure centralized planning is.

Well considering the regulatory authority of the FDA has been cut from 50,000 inspections/yr to around 9,500/yr since the 70s for meat as an example, the fact that the FDA is failing isnt surprising. When you take the teeth out of a regulatory agency it fails. That seems like common sense to me.

One of the main problems is when the government takes control of regulating something it becomes infested with corporate interests that help to undermine authority from the inside out.

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 10:19 AM
One of the main problems is when the government takes control of regulating something it becomes infested with corporate interests that help to undermine authority from the inside out.

Not only corporate interests, but also other special interest groups as well, such as trail attorneys who need to make their fortunes suing our Dr's and insurance companies into oblivion.

Amazing to me we can pass a healthcare reform bill that doesn't even touch THE BIGGEST cost that Dr's have, and the biggest reason premiums go up, medical malpractice.

The worst thing we could have done is turn this over to the federal government. It will ruin our healthcare system the way its destroyed our public schools.

GKeeper316
3/22/2010, 10:21 AM
Well considering the regulatory authority of the FDA has been cut from 50,000 inspections/yr to around 9,500/yr since the 70s for meat as an example, the fact that the FDA is failing isnt surprising. When you take the teeth out of a regulatory agency it fails. That seems like common sense to me.

One of the main problems is when the government takes control of regulating something it becomes infested with corporate interests that help to undermine authority from the inside out.

the decline in meat (and generally every other agricultural product) inspections since the 70s has more to do with the decline of the independent farmer.

more stuff coming from less sources (corporate farms) means less inspections are necessary.

King Barry's Back
3/22/2010, 10:22 AM
I'm going to ask you what I ask every liberal friend of mine. Where is the Constitutional authorization for the nationalization and/or regulation of the healthcare industry?

I get all sorts of amused when liberals scream about the importance of the Constitution when it comes to civil liberties, but when it comes to huge new entitlement programs involving powers not enumerated to the Federal government then the Constitution seems to matter a lot less. Either you accept all of the Constitution or you accept none of it.

I also get amused when conservatives do the same **** with gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, etc.

I had a liberal friend of mine who is a political consultant out of Dallas tell me tonight, "Well it isn't Constitutional strictly speaking but it's a universal human right." As if a universal "human right" supersedes the Constitution. I mean I don't accept the premise of the argument but the idea that some arbitrary "human right" is greater than the highest law of the land is insane.

I think that Europeans are responsible for all this quibble over "human rights."
They have been trying to build their Union, and they couldn't rely on national texts to list "rights," (plus they don't generally HAVE any Constitutional rights) so they had to find something that could apply to all the countries.

So they developed their "universal human rights," and now we are all stuck with it.

To Europeans, I say, "Americans don't need human rights, we already have Constitutional rights." And Isay the same to Americans hoping to apply theories of human rights in this country.

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 10:26 AM
has more to do with the decline of the independent farmer.


Which, may I add, was another grand victory for the forces of centralized planning and statism.

TheHumanAlphabet
3/22/2010, 10:26 AM
rejoice! america is a better country today! Nice work obama, 7 more years to make this country better!

Hope in 20 years, you won't have to be waiting for 3-4 weeks for a GP appointment or a year or so for a CT scan and the extra taxes required to lift the backlog in medical procedures that this bill will likely bring. And since the great American health system wiill no longer exist, you will not be able to go somewhere else to have that heart or cancer surgery you need, that the health care administration says you need to wait 6-8 months for scheduling.

You say that won't happen?

Just ask the guys in the UK who either stand in line or call the GP office to make appointments for things today that they will be able to get in and see a GP in 3-4 weeks hence. Or the wait for CT scans and elective surgery currently required in Canada and the UK, or the extra tax just levied on the residients of Alberta because they have to pay overtime and hire extra people to pay for the $18 million Canadian (which is now on par with the USD) it will take to reduce the backlog of tests and surgical procedures not done as they didn't have the people or the money to schedule and were waiting for simple medical procedures. And finally, the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador Provinces who needed heart surgery, left for Miami for the procedure as he didn't want to wait or believed that he could get the best care in Canada.

badger
3/22/2010, 10:34 AM
Government myths buster time!

Myth: The Senate passed a health care bill before Christmas, so now we're getting universal/national/Obamacare health care.

Fact: I think you all figured this out by now that the House also had to pass the bill and then the president will have to approve as well... but I think we can all fairly assume that Obama will sign the first health care bill that makes it to his desk.

Myth: Now that the House also passed a health care bill, we will have health care now.

Fact: The House decided to modify the Senate's bill so they could get their fingerprints and ideas all over it, so it will need to go back to the Senate for approval. Again.

Myth: Once the Senate approves a health care bill again, we will have health care.

Fact: The Senate is likely to also get their fingerprints and ideas all up in it again, meaning that it will face the House's dirty little paws again (as well as their own ideas)... if the Senate can pass something.

Myth: The House passed their bill quickly, so it move quickly through the Senate now too, because everyone's ideas are obviously coming together.

Fact: Everything passes the House easier. It's a filibusterer-proof side of government, meaning that the majority (in this case, dems) wins. The Senate, on the other hand, can filibusterer if there isn't 60 votes... and there are only 59 dems/independents now, with that nice little midterm midtacular election for the open Kennedy seat.

Ok guys, did I miss anything? Any corrections/clarifications?

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 10:42 AM
Which, may I add, was another grand victory for the forces of centralized planning and statism.

Or Capitalism at its finest... pick your poison. :eek:

Chuck Bao
3/22/2010, 11:16 AM
Congress finally got 'er done. Yay - I may be able to get health insurance some day.

TheHumanAlphabet
3/22/2010, 11:23 AM
Congress finally got 'er done. Yay - I may be able to get health insurance some day.

I fail to believe a person at your level and in your position, don't have health insurance. And if you don't why do you work there? With your knowledge and skills, you can easily find a position that has health benefits, unless you a CHOOSING a position and job without them. Then your arguement fails.

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 11:24 AM
Or Capitalism at its finest... pick your poison. :eek:So you think that a government controlled and subsidized industry is "capitalism"?????

Interesting.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 11:46 AM
man, where's all the sympathy on here for those (especially) that don't have health coverage? i'll bet jesus would want everyone to have coverage. just a hunch, though.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 11:47 AM
Hope in 20 years, you won't have to be waiting for 3-4 weeks for a GP appointment or a year or so for a CT scan and the extra taxes required to lift the backlog in medical procedures that this bill will likely bring. And since the great American health system wiill no longer exist, you will not be able to go somewhere else to have that heart or cancer surgery you need, that the health care administration says you need to wait 6-8 months for scheduling.

You say that won't happen?

Just ask the guys in the UK who either stand in line or call the GP office to make appointments for things today that they will be able to get in and see a GP in 3-4 weeks hence. Or the wait for CT scans and elective surgery currently required in Canada and the UK, or the extra tax just levied on the residients of Alberta because they have to pay overtime and hire extra people to pay for the $18 million Canadian (which is now on par with the USD) it will take to reduce the backlog of tests and surgical procedures not done as they didn't have the people or the money to schedule and were waiting for simple medical procedures. And finally, the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador Provinces who needed heart surgery, left for Miami for the procedure as he didn't want to wait or believed that he could get the best care in Canada.

spent 3 weeks in canada this summer and every canadian laughed at these stories. i guess i should believe fox news over actual canadians, though. you're right!

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 11:48 AM
man, where's all the sympathy on here for those (especially) that don't have health coverage?

Because the folks who don't have health coverage today won't have a job tomorrow thanks to this POS.

Wonder what Jesus thinks about the Federal Government paying for the mass murder of the unborn??

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 11:49 AM
maybe now some of these unborn cell globs that all these republicans want to protect can actually have coverage once they turn into children now.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 11:49 AM
man, you folks that preach jesus sure do have hearts of stone...

Ike
3/22/2010, 11:50 AM
I'm going to ask you what I ask every liberal friend of mine. Where is the Constitutional authorization for the nationalization and/or regulation of the healthcare industry?

I get all sorts of amused when liberals scream about the importance of the Constitution when it comes to civil liberties, but when it comes to huge new entitlement programs involving powers not enumerated to the Federal government then the Constitution seems to matter a lot less. Either you accept all of the Constitution or you accept none of it.

I also get amused when conservatives do the same **** with gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, etc.

I had a liberal friend of mine who is a political consultant out of Dallas tell me tonight, "Well it isn't Constitutional strictly speaking but it's a universal human right." As if a universal "human right" supersedes the Constitution. I mean I don't accept the premise of the argument but the idea that some arbitrary "human right" is greater than the highest law of the land is insane.

Im no constitutional scholar, but just a quick perusing of Article I section 8 tells me that that first sentence can be construed very broadly to incorporate exactly the type of thing this bill purportedly does. I'm sure you have some other kind of interpretation of that sentence where the phrase "general welfare" has some very narrow definition, and I'll naturally disagree with that because the word 'general' is in there. That word covers a lot of ground. Then you'll tell me that the 'your a poopyhead' clause clearly states that you are right and I am wrong, and I'll counter that the 'nanny-nanny-boo-boo, stick your head in doo-doo' clause clearly states otherwise. We could keep arguing about it, but at some point it's going to get ridiculous.

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 11:51 AM
man, you folks that preach jesus sure do have hearts of stone...
And you folks that teach that corporations are "evil" just made it mandatory to be their customers under penalty of law.

Chuck Bao
3/22/2010, 11:58 AM
I fail to believe a person at your level and in your position, don't have health insurance. And if you don't why do you work there? With your knowledge and skills, you can easily find a position that has health benefits, unless you a CHOOSING a position and job without them. Then your arguement fails.

No, I do have company provided health insurance and it has been scaled down so much that it is essentially worthless. It pays for only about 5% of my monthly pill bill. Besides that, there is a cap on the annual payout and I rather save that back in case I really get sick.

I didn't think that moving back to the US would be a solution either because I just assume that many American companies would be switching to the health care lite plan, like my company.

Several years ago, I tried buying health insurance myself from two large US insurance companies. Both denied because they said that I engage in "risky behavior". Apparently, they don't like insuring single American men living overseas who ride bikes. They also don't like single American men living overseas who skydive either. I don't go skydiving and it seems like an odd question given that health care wouldn't be much of an issue if there was an accident unless it fits into their profile question of people more likely to engage in "risky behavior".

So is "pre-existing illness" not the same as "risky behavior"? Anyone know?

The passage of this health reform bill actually does make it feasible for me to return to the US at some point in the future. If I have no insurance, I definitely do not want to be in the US. Thailand is a much better place to be sick because health care costs are one-third of that in the US and I can use the Thai government's $1.00 per hospital visit plan if I suffer from some serious health problems.

Mjcpr
3/22/2010, 12:01 PM
No, I do have company provided health insurance and it has been scaled down so much that it is essentially worthless. It pays for only about 5% of my monthly pill bill. Besides that, there is a cap on the annual payout and I rather save that back in case I really get sick.

I didn't think that moving back to the US would be a solution either because I just assume that many American companies would be switching to the health care lite plan, like my company.

Several years ago, I tried buying health insurance myself from two large US insurance companies. Both denied because they said that I engage in "risky behavior". Apparently, they don't like insuring single American men living overseas who ride bikes. They also don't like single American men living overseas who skydive either. I don't go skydiving and it seems like an odd question given that health care wouldn't be much of an issue if there was an accident unless it fits into their profile question of people more likely to engage in "risky behavior".

So is "pre-existing illness" not the same as "risky behavior"? Anyone know?

The passage of this health reform bill actually does make it feasible for me to return to the US at some point in the future. If I have no insurance, I definitely do not want to be in the US. Thailand is a much better place to be sick because health care costs are one-third of that in the US and I can use the Thai government's $1.00 per hospital visit plan if I suffer from some serious health problems.

Yeah, but their treatment consists of chicken bones, feathers and the blood of an emu.

OklahomaTuba
3/22/2010, 12:07 PM
Yes, we should model our health care system after a 2nd world country that has the 111th highest life expectancy in the world.

Chuck Bao
3/22/2010, 12:08 PM
Yeah, but their treatment consists of chicken bones, feathers and the blood of an emu.

Heh! You forgot sex change operations. Thailand offers cutting edge technology in sex changes.

Actually, the health care system is pretty good here. If US insurance companies would recognize that major surgeries could be performed outside the country, then health care coverage costs would be significantly lower.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 12:12 PM
And you folks that teach that corporations are "evil" just made it mandatory to be their customers under penalty of law.

evil? what are you talking about?

Chuck Bao
3/22/2010, 12:14 PM
Yes, we should model our health care system after a 2nd world country that has the 111th highest life expectancy in the world.

If you are referring to Thailand, that would be because Thais can't drive worth ****. Thais are such calm, peaceful people until they get into their car. That may be why riding a bike in Thailand is an instant no for the US health insurers.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 12:17 PM
So it is now clear that most people still don't know how this works. Too many things to address.

One correction badj, if reconciliation runs into problems or even in the meantime, the flawed senate bill passed last night is the law of the land. This be the case as soon as Obama signs it on Tues.

This bill is a 99 problems situation if their ever was one. Let's talk about the expansion of the powers of the IRS the likes of which is heretofor unheard of. 17000 more employing whose sole purpose is to determine if your policy is suitable to the goverment(not suitable to you), and fine you $2250 or 2% of your income is your policy is deemed inferior. New powers of audit and general harrassment.

Those of you who can't wait to dance around the corpse of our republic, know that you have yet to see opposition to this regime. True opposition starts now. Congradulations to Obama and Pelosi. You have ripped this nation apart, and things are about to get interesting.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 12:19 PM
wanting all americans to have healthcare is ripping the country apart? man, i wonder how we pull everyone together? wait, let's start a war!! man, jesus must be disgusted.

Collier11
3/22/2010, 12:21 PM
No but forcing people to purchase and pay for something they dont want goes against all things Democracy

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 12:24 PM
i'll bet jesus would want everyone to have coverage. just a hunch, though.

jesus never met jampeequa`h and javier who have 16 kids between the two and nary a job between them and have no real ambition to get one OR need one because they are making more scamming the gubment than they would at food lion no way.

GKeeper316
3/22/2010, 12:25 PM
Hope in 20 years, you won't have to be waiting for 3-4 weeks for a GP appointment or a year or so for a CT scan and the extra taxes required to lift the backlog in medical procedures that this bill will likely bring. And since the great American health system wiill no longer exist, you will not be able to go somewhere else to have that heart or cancer surgery you need, that the health care administration says you need to wait 6-8 months for scheduling.

You say that won't happen?

Just ask the guys in the UK who either stand in line or call the GP office to make appointments for things today that they will be able to get in and see a GP in 3-4 weeks hence. Or the wait for CT scans and elective surgery currently required in Canada and the UK, or the extra tax just levied on the residients of Alberta because they have to pay overtime and hire extra people to pay for the $18 million Canadian (which is now on par with the USD) it will take to reduce the backlog of tests and surgical procedures not done as they didn't have the people or the money to schedule and were waiting for simple medical procedures. And finally, the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador Provinces who needed heart surgery, left for Miami for the procedure as he didn't want to wait or believed that he could get the best care in Canada.

i used to live in england. i dont recall anything of the sort.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 12:25 PM
wanting all americans to have healthcare is ripping the country apart? man, i wonder how we pull everyone together? wait, let's start a war!! man, jesus must be disgusted.
This is still not about health care. It wasn't yesterday and won't be tomorrow.

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 12:26 PM
wanting all americans to have healthcare is ripping the country apart? man, i wonder how we pull everyone together? wait, let's start a war!! man, jesus must be disgusted.

thin the herd...jesus had lions rocks we have smart bombs thermonuclear war.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 12:27 PM
i think i get it now: save the unborn children, but DO NOT pay for them to have healthcare once they come into this world...or do so over my dead body.

i'm starting to understand it now!

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 12:29 PM
i used to live in england. i dont recall anything of the sort.

STOP IT! he watches fox news, what would you know?

delhalew
3/22/2010, 12:30 PM
Millions will be added to the Medicaid roles. It is already difficult to find a doctor that takes Medicaid to the low payouts. Did you miss the story about Walgreens not accepting new Medicaid claims? This is the beginning of a drastic decline. Anyone hear about the new taxes on medical techology and research firms.
No? Who cares right? Yes We Can...own you lock, stock, and smoking barrel.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 12:33 PM
i think i get it now: save the unborn children, but DO NOT pay for them to have healthcare once they come into this world...or do so over my dead body.

i'm starting to understand it now!

Every child in country already had health care. Which by the way should be a state level program. What do want to lie about next?

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 12:34 PM
i think i get it now: save the unborn children, but DO NOT pay for them to have healthcare once they come into this world...or do so over my dead body.

i'm starting to understand it now!

i couldnt care one way or the other over the abortion issues but, what i think is important to point out is most of middle amercias burden is large enough as it is without having to carry multiple millions of illegal imigrants, derelicts and just plain lazy...

Chuck Bao
3/22/2010, 12:38 PM
No but forcing people to purchase and pay for something they dont want goes against all things Democracy

You almost sound as bad as Sic'em's "if it isn't in the constitution..." typical illogical rant. Mandatory auto insurance is against democracy too? What if the majority of Americans say that everyone should have health insurance or at least be entitled to it?

Dio
3/22/2010, 12:42 PM
I'm a little freaked out by Chuck's use of "cutting edge" and sex change" in the same sentence [shudder]

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 12:45 PM
You almost sound as bad as Sic'em's "if it isn't in the constitution..." typical illogical rant. Mandatory auto insurance is against democracy too? What if the majority of Americans say that everyone should have health insurance or at least be entitled to it?

i know this is not what you are saying but the difference between the two is apples and oranges...if mike down the street runs over your wife with his car and you need to get her fixed, his auto insurance is the way that happens...if mike down the street decided to smoke crack 3 times a day for a decade, bangs crack hoes for 20 bucks a day and shoots up weekly with dirty syringes, why should my insurance rates help pay for his dumbass?

Dio
3/22/2010, 12:46 PM
man, where's all the sympathy on here for those (especially) that don't have health coverage? i'll bet jesus would want everyone to have coverage. just a hunch, though.

Jesus healed the sick on His own- He didn't agitate for the Pharisees or Romans to set up a program. People need to help people, but not because the government's rifle is pointed at them.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 12:48 PM
You almost sound as bad as Sic'em's "if it isn't in the constitution..." typical illogical rant. Mandatory auto insurance is against democracy too? What if the majority of Americans say that everyone should have health insurance or at least be entitled to it?

Weaksauce chuck. The Constitution is supposed to be law of the land. Also, if you want to drive, you need insurance, but no one can force you to drive. That arguement holds no water. Even so, nobody I know is saying this is the first time the people and our Constitution have been **** on.

GKeeper316
3/22/2010, 12:50 PM
No but forcing people to purchase and pay for something they dont want goes against all things Democracy

and here lies the biggest bull**** of it all... the insurance companies get state legislatures (all 50 of em) to pass laws requiring you to have auto insurance to drive... and in places like okc, that has one of the worst public transportation systems in america, you gotta drive.

then they turn around and get more laws passed preventing you from mentioning them in court when you're forced to sue because they screwed you over... because it "unfairly predjudices juries"

Sooner in Tampa
3/22/2010, 12:54 PM
and here lies the biggest bull**** of it all... the insurance companies get state legislatures (all 50 of em) to pass laws requiring you to have auto insurance to drive... and in places like okc, that has one of the worst public transportation systems in america, you gotta drive.

then they turn around and get more laws passed preventing you from mentioning them in court when you're forced to sue because they screwed you over... because it "unfairly predjudices juries"
The bull**** is comparing Health care insurance to auto insurance

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

End of argument!

C&CDean
3/22/2010, 12:56 PM
i think i get it now: save the unborn children, but DO NOT pay for them to have healthcare once they come into this world...or do so over my dead body.

i'm starting to understand it now!

I just grabbed this one post - but could have grabbed any of yours in the whole thread and still said the same thing: Is it truly possible that you are really that ****ing stupid? Do you really think this will make America a groovy utopia of healthy people all happily going to the doctor of their choice? Do you really think people who work hard and pay taxes are responsible for paying for health insurance for those that choose not to? Have you really been so pathetically brainwashed by your left-coasty faggoty friends that you are actually believing anything this administration is telling us?

If so, then you really are that pathetically stupid. This is not a great day for America. It is the antithesis of a great day, and idiots like you are lapping it up from Obama's **** like it's milk and honey. MEH.

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 12:56 PM
So you think that a government controlled and subsidized industry is "capitalism"?????

Interesting.

Depends on who's perspective you are taking. I bet Monsanto is pretty happy about it.

C&CDean
3/22/2010, 01:02 PM
and here lies the biggest bull**** of it all... the insurance companies get state legislatures (all 50 of em) to pass laws requiring you to have auto insurance to drive... and in places like okc, that has one of the worst public transportation systems in america, you gotta drive.

then they turn around and get more laws passed preventing you from mentioning them in court when you're forced to sue because they screwed you over... because it "unfairly predjudices juries"

What kind of a moron would compare health insurance to auto insurance?

Furthermore, I have some very close friends in England. Yeah, I heard you might have "lived" there once. You're full of **** if you think they have good coverage over there. I don't watch Fox news, I just listen to the people I know. They ****ing hate it. They're dying over there waiting on common medical procedures. My friend Billy has "been on the list" for a knee transplant for over 2 years now. His wife Bette is still waiting for her hip - 38 months after being told she needed one.

Yeah, socialized medicine is the **** man. It's da bomb. It'll save us all and make us more Jesus like. ****ing morons.

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 01:03 PM
True opposition starts now. Congradulations to Obama and Pelosi. You have ripped this nation apart, and things are about to get interesting.

I think it is funny that this gets blamed on them. As if the pundits on Fox News (and MSNBC) had nothing to do with it. Not to mention the republicans that acted like spoiled children and tried to take their ball and go home, thereby excluding themselves from the entire process of what they were sent there to do... If (and that is a big if) the entire country is ripped apart you cant blame it on just one side.

Bourbon St Sooner
3/22/2010, 01:04 PM
I just grabbed this one post - but could have grabbed any of yours in the whole thread and still said the same thing: Is it truly possible that you are really that ****ing stupid? Do you really think this will make America a groovy utopia of healthy people all happily going to the doctor of their choice? Do you really think people who work hard and pay taxes are responsible for paying for health insurance for those that choose not to? Have you really been so pathetically brainwashed by your left-coasty faggoty friends that you are actually believing anything this administration is telling us?

If so, then you really are that pathetically stupid. This is not a great day for America. It is the antithesis of a great day, and idiots like you are lapping it up from Obama's **** like it's milk and honey. MEH.


Dude, in Pelosi-land health care is an unlimited commodity like air. We just need those evil rich people to pay for it. Shortages, what shortages?

Bourbon St Sooner
3/22/2010, 01:05 PM
tick.............tick..........tick......tick

That's our debt time bomb and the ticking's getting louder.

Greece has nothing on us.

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 01:05 PM
i know this is not what you are saying but the difference between the two is apples and oranges...if mike down the street runs over your wife with his car and you need to get her fixed, his auto insurance is the way that happens...if mike down the street decided to smoke crack 3 times a day for a decade, bangs crack hoes for 20 bucks a day and shoots up weekly with dirty syringes, why should my insurance rates help pay for his dumbass?

They already were anyway right? :confused: Indirectly or directly it makes no difference to the insurance companies. At least now there is a chance to get something out of that bastard's hide.

GKeeper316
3/22/2010, 01:11 PM
What kind of a moron would compare health insurance to auto insurance?

Furthermore, I have some very close friends in England. Yeah, I heard you might have "lived" there once. You're full of **** if you think they have good coverage over there. I don't watch Fox news, I just listen to the people I know. They ****ing hate it. They're dying over there waiting on common medical procedures. My friend Billy has "been on the list" for a knee transplant for over 2 years now. His wife Bette is still waiting for her hip - 38 months after being told she needed one.

Yeah, socialized medicine is the **** man. It's da bomb. It'll save us all and make us more Jesus like. ****ing morons.

well when my brother had to have his emergency surgery, they did it the same night he went in (he had to have 2 tendons in his foot reattached when they got severed)

im sorry your friend and his wife are having problems, but i never encountered anything of the sort when i was there.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 01:14 PM
I think it is funny that this gets blamed on them. As if the pundits on Fox News (and MSNBC) had nothing to do with it. Not to mention the republicans that acted like spoiled children and tried to take their ball and go home, thereby excluding themselves from the entire process of what they were sent there to do... If (and that is a big if) the entire country is ripped apart you cant blame it on just one side.

The media doesn't have the power to do what we saw last night. The opposition to this bill was the place bipartisanship could be found.
The republicans were threatening to take MY ball and go home. I told them to oppose and they did. I told dems to do the same, but few listened.
Stop underestimating the peoples position on this. We are not too stupid to understand. Its the supporters who don't seem to know or care to know anything about this bill.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/22/2010, 01:14 PM
I'm going to ask you what I ask every liberal friend of mine. Where is the Constitutional authorization for the nationalization and/or regulation of the healthcare industry?

I get all sorts of amused when liberals scream about the importance of the Constitution when it comes to civil liberties, but when it comes to huge new entitlement programs involving powers not enumerated to the Federal government then the Constitution seems to matter a lot less. Either you accept all of the Constitution or you accept none of it.

I also get amused when conservatives do the same **** with gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, etc.

I had a liberal friend of mine who is a political consultant out of Dallas tell me tonight, "Well it isn't Constitutional strictly speaking but it's a universal human right." As if a universal "human right" supersedes the Constitution. I mean I don't accept the premise of the argument but the idea that some arbitrary "human right" is greater than the highest law of the land is insane.Human (God-given) rights ARE greater than the law of the land, and those rights are mentioned in our laws of the land. However, free healthcare is not a right, and Healthcare Provider or Healthcare Insurance Provider are not authorized for, nor responsibilities of the federal govt. The Democrat Party and the Obama Administration care not a whit about any of those silly laws.

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 01:19 PM
The media doesn't have the power to do what we saw last night. The opposition to this bill was the place bipartisanship could be found.
The republicans were threatening to take MY ball and go home. I told them to oppose and they did. I told dems to do the same, but few listened.
Stop underestimating the peoples position on this. We are not to stupid to understand. Its the supporters who don't seem to know or care to know anything about this bill.

I am not underestimating anything.

You are the one putting illogical stipulations on where they could find common ground. So its only good bipartisanship if it goes they way you want it to? Couldnt the pubs have worked the other way and come up with something more acceptable to you? If they werent so concerned with trying to make this his Waterloo...

Here is what youre arguments sounds like in reverse. I told the Dems to vote for it most did, I told the pubs to vote for it and they didnt.

Quit effing whining. Jesus age christ. If you want to change it vote against em next time.

C&CDean
3/22/2010, 01:20 PM
well when my brother had to have his emergency surgery, they did it the same night he went in (he had to have 2 tendons in his foot reattached when they got severed)

im sorry your friend and his wife are having problems, but i never encountered anything of the sort when i was there.

Emergency Room care. Got it. Same thing will happen over here for anybody that gets their tendons severed - whether they're insured or not. And is your brother a British citizen? Also, you can't try and say your very limited experience with health care in the UK passes for anything close to what actually goes on over there can you? But hey, let's sit on SF.com and say **** we don't have a clue about. Got it.

Chuck Bao
3/22/2010, 01:20 PM
i know this is not what you are saying but the difference between the two is apples and oranges...if mike down the street runs over your wife with his car and you need to get her fixed, his auto insurance is the way that happens...if mike down the street decided to smoke crack 3 times a day for a decade, bangs crack hoes for 20 bucks a day and shoots up weekly with dirty syringes, why should my insurance rates help pay for his dumbass?

That is a damn good question. What if your insurance company decides that if you eat at McDees once a week that you should be denied health care? What if they deny coverage if someone is overweight by 10% over the recommended weight level? What if you can't run a mile in under 15 minutes? In my case, what if you ride a bike? What if you lie on their questionnaire and smoke and drink and don't come home at all?

yermom
3/22/2010, 01:24 PM
The media doesn't have the power to do what we saw last night. The opposition to this bill was the place bipartisanship could be found.
The republicans were threatening to take MY ball and go home. I told them to oppose and they did. I told dems to do the same, but few listened.
Stop underestimating the peoples position on this. We are not too stupid to understand. Its the supporters who don't seem to know or care to know anything about this bill.

the Republicans gambled with your money and lost. they thought they could stonewall and block this deal instead of being constructive about it.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 01:30 PM
That is a damn good question. What if your insurance company decides that if you eat at McDees once a week that you should be denied health care? What if they deny coverage if someone is overweight by 10% over the recommended weight level? What if you can't run a mile in under 15 minutes? In my case, what if you ride a bike? What if you lie on their questionnaire and smoke and drink and don't come home at all?

Well, if this had been approached from a standpoint of health insurance reform rather than a social monstrosity you could see some interesting devolopments. Instead of mandating we buy a crap product, you could open up insurance purchasing nationwide and you could see new insurance companies offering ala carte and concierge plans. Maybe if you don't eat Mcdonalds or shoot heroin you may get a cheaper ploicy. Maybe you pick what suits the needs of your family. We will never know now. We can all watch quality of care decline. Of course, since this bill is frontloaded, lots of chowderheads will be hyped about getting free ****. Down the road we pay in more ways than one. Wait and see what happens to the states when the Medicaid buffer from the Feds cuts out.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 01:44 PM
the Republicans gambled with your money and lost. they thought they could stonewall and block this deal instead of being constructive about it.

Congess and the white house ignored republican ideas until a month ago when tossed a cherry on top of cow patty for political cover. I'm not a partison, unless you want to talk federalsts and torres.
Btw, I know...I'm framing it MY way.

Fraggle145
3/22/2010, 01:51 PM
Congess and the white house ignored republican ideas until a month ago when tossed a cherry on top of cow patty for political cover. I'm not a partison, unless you want to talk federalsts and torres.
Btw, I know...I'm framing it MY way.

Except for the fact that this plan looks almost identical to the one proposed by republicans in like 1993. When they did the same thing they attempted to do this time around to Clinton.

Ike
3/22/2010, 02:04 PM
Congess and the white house ignored republican ideas until a month ago when tossed a cherry on top of cow patty for political cover. I'm not a partison, unless you want to talk federalsts and torres.
Btw, I know...I'm framing it MY way.

If they had ignored republican ideas until just a month ago, there would have been a public option in the bill. The reason there isn't a public option has nothing to do with the republicans and everything to do with conservative democratic senators. Since no republican was willing to vote for the bill even if more of their ideas had been incorporated (and most of them even said as much publicly), I really can't blame the dems for moving forward the way they did. From where I stand, it now looks to me like that whole health care summit a month ago was really Obama extending the pubs an olive branch...basically saying here is your chance to play ball. What can we do to get your vote? When the best the repubs could do was say "start over", what did they really expect? Especially considering that this bill bears a strong resemblance to RomneyCare.

delhalew
3/22/2010, 02:07 PM
Except for the fact that this plan looks almost identical to the one proposed by republicans in like 1993. When they did the same thing they attempted to do this time around to Clinton.

Funny you should mention Hilly care. Clinton tried to get Bird to use reconcilliation then and went off about how wrong it would be to do that to the American people and that his own rule was never to be used for a piece of legislation such as health care. Never mind the repudiations of Obama himself.
Just saying.

JohnnyMack
3/22/2010, 02:11 PM
That is a damn good question. What if your insurance company decides that if you eat at McDees once a week that you should be denied health care? What if they deny coverage if someone is overweight by 10% over the recommended weight level? What if you can't run a mile in under 15 minutes? In my case, what if you ride a bike? What if you lie on their questionnaire and smoke and drink and don't come home at all?

You're getting closer. You shouldn't be denied coverage, you should have paid a "fat tax" in the first place for eating it. Much like we're forced to pay a tax on teh cigarettes and teh alcohol.

Nothing in the Dems healthcare reform worked at reducing costs. It was all about extending coverage.

OKLA21FAN
3/22/2010, 02:19 PM
Soooooooooooo,
When is RUSH leaving the country as promised? :pop:

Collier11
3/22/2010, 02:21 PM
probably right after Alec Baldwin and all the libs leave the office that promised us they would

delhalew
3/22/2010, 02:24 PM
Soooooooooooo,
When is RUSH leaving the country as promised? :pop:

Medical tourism coming to the US is HILARIOUS.:D

Collier11
3/22/2010, 02:26 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100322/pl_nm/us_usa_healthcare_states

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 02:32 PM
this was long overdue. i'm glad it passed. now we can get the children of republicans into the doctor, extract their souls, and feed them to pelossi...yum!!!

Bourbon St Sooner
3/22/2010, 02:33 PM
You're getting closer. You shouldn't be denied coverage, you should have paid a "fat tax" in the first place for eating it. Much like we're forced to pay a tax on teh cigarettes and teh alcohol.

Nothing in the Dems healthcare reform worked at reducing costs. It was all about extending coverage.

Bingo. Why should healthy people have to subsidize fat asses that won't keep themselves in shape or folks in high risk lifestyles? And, incidentally, until you get a handle on those things you're not going to get a handle on health care costs in this country. That's something that this new entitlement program does nothing to address.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 02:38 PM
i'm surprised that the republicans are so pissed off about this bill, yet have no such outrage about wall street and the fact that AIG and Goldman Sachs (to just name 2) are existing on government subsidies and would FAIL if they were left to capitalist forces. in addition, their CEO's are paid HUGE bonuses (on investments paid for by government money) and the industry continues to be non-transparent under our noses after almost bankrupting our great nation.

seriously, why aren't there 15 posts about that? because you morons are too simple-minded and controlled by fox news to understand what the hell's going on in this country. yes, i said it. you're worried about "saving fetuses"..which you'll hate and malign as soon as they're older, you claim to be doing christ's work (some of you), yet you don't want to help another man if it's on your dime. it's absolutely comical.

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 02:39 PM
Bingo. Why should healthy people have to subsidize fat asses that won't keep themselves in shape or folks in high risk lifestyles? And, incidentally, until you get a handle on those things you're not going to get a handle on health care costs in this country. That's something that this new entitlement program does nothing to address.

well, there are some fatazzes who are currently employed and well covered by the insurance they have and are not having to be subsidized....

now, do you think obama is running down to the corner store to buy a pack of generic, menthol smokes when he runs out? nope, he has a limo driver go grab a box of newports some for the cost of gas or just has them delivered to the houZe for a minimal fee. do you think that includes a "sin tax" or does he get a government tax break?

C&CDean
3/22/2010, 02:42 PM
i'm surprised that the republicans are so pissed off about this bill, yet have no such outrage about wall street and the fact that AIG and Goldman Sachs (to just name 2) are existing on government subsidies and would FAIL if they were left to capitalist forces. in addition, their CEO's are paid HUGE bonuses (on investments paid for by government money) and the industry continues to be non-transparent under our noses after almost bankrupting our great nation.

seriously, why aren't there 15 posts about that? because you morons are too simple-minded and controlled by fox news to understand what the hell's going on in this country. yes, i said it. you're worried about "saving fetuses"..which you'll hate and malign as soon as they're older, you claim to be doing christ's work (some of you), yet you don't want to help another man if it's on your dime. it's absolutely comical.

Sounds to me like someone is overdoing their celebrating. Were you one of the dweebs who wailed like a bitch when Cobain offed himself? There's one who shoulda been aborted for sure. And if you'll just look around a little, you'll find lots of crap on the CEO/AIG/GM deals. "Help another man if it's on your dime.." I've heard some lameassed condescending bull**** before, but that one is up there pretty high.

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 02:46 PM
i'm surprised that the republicans are so pissed off about this bill, yet have no such outrage about wall street and the fact that AIG and Goldman Sachs (to just name 2) are existing on government subsidies and would FAIL if they were left to capitalist forces. in addition, their CEO's are paid HUGE bonuses (on investments paid for by government money) and the industry continues to be non-transparent under our noses after almost bankrupting our great nation.

seriously, why aren't there 15 posts about that? because you morons are too simple-minded and controlled by fox news to understand what the hell's going on in this country. yes, i said it. you're worried about "saving fetuses"..which you'll hate and malign as soon as they're older, you claim to be doing christ's work (some of you), yet you don't want to help another man if it's on your dime. it's absolutely comical.


simple, educate your daughter to abstain, be gay or learn to read the instructions on a rubber then we wouldnt even be talking about the abortion issue... my grandparents educated my parents, my parents educated me, i educate mine...see how that works?

its simple, get a fing job, become a productive member of society and stop being a bunch of stpid azzed hill billy, white trash ghetto rats...things will be all good. in the hood.

OhU1
3/22/2010, 03:06 PM
Goldman Sachs (to just name 2) are existing on government subsidies and would FAIL if they were left to capitalist forces.

Bull ****. GS used gov. money briefly but didn't have to have it to survive. They paid the $10B in TARP plus an extra $318 in dividends already. This was a good deal for the tax payers. But please don't facts get in the way of your rhetoric

Ike
3/22/2010, 03:20 PM
Bull ****. GS used gov. money briefly but didn't have to have it to survive. They paid the $10B in TARP plus an extra $318 in dividends already. This was a good deal for the tax payers. But please don't facts get in the way of your rhetoric

There was the 12b in AIG credit default swaps that they got 100 cents on the dollar on when the gov stepped in and rescued AIG too....thats not chump change...and they didn't have to pay any of that back.

Bourbon St Sooner
3/22/2010, 03:25 PM
i'm surprised that the republicans are so pissed off about this bill, yet have no such outrage about wall street and the fact that AIG and Goldman Sachs (to just name 2) are existing on government subsidies and would FAIL if they were left to capitalist forces. in addition, their CEO's are paid HUGE bonuses (on investments paid for by government money) and the industry continues to be non-transparent under our noses after almost bankrupting our great nation.

seriously, why aren't there 15 posts about that? because you morons are too simple-minded and controlled by fox news to understand what the hell's going on in this country. yes, i said it. you're worried about "saving fetuses"..which you'll hate and malign as soon as they're older, you claim to be doing christ's work (some of you), yet you don't want to help another man if it's on your dime. it's absolutely comical.

I've posted on the Wall Street bailouts on numerous occasions and how Wall St owns both parties and don't remember seeing you chime in before. All I see from you are the same liberal taglines. Hell, at least Chuck is consistent is liking all gov't bailouts. You only like bailouts if you're the one getting bailed out.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 04:30 PM
blah blah blah. you guys are outraged because you think you're supposed to be. fox and all the other networks are telling you that you need to be. you're exactly what you criticize.

of all the things to be pissed about, this is far down on the list. the hypocrisy on here is amazing.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 04:31 PM
There's one who shoulda been aborted for sure. .

i agree. see, there we are in agreement again.

PDXsooner
3/22/2010, 04:32 PM
simple, educate your daughter to abstain, be gay or learn to read the instructions on a rubber then we wouldnt even be talking about the abortion issue... my grandparents educated my parents, my parents educated me, i educate mine...see how that works?

.

yeah, it's great. worked well for palin.

Dio
3/22/2010, 04:34 PM
hey PDX had 2 straight posts where he didn't mention Fox...good job!

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 04:35 PM
yeah, it's great. worked well for palin.

wtf does palin have to do with being hog tied and forced to pay insurance hikes for welfare recipients?

Sooner in Tampa
3/22/2010, 04:36 PM
blah blah blah. you guys are outraged because you think you're supposed to be. fox and all the other networks are telling you that you need to be. you're exactly what you criticize.

No Sir...DON'T tell my why I am pissed!!! I am pissed because I don't WANT the government taking care of everything for me!! I am sick of paying the load for the slackers!!! I am repulsed that welfare will get a higher cola raise then our fine men and women in uniform that risk their lives!!

I am SICK of this attitude that everybody owes you something...if something bad happens in your neighborhood, the government needs to come riding in and save the day...**** THAT, hike up your britches and HELP YOURSELF!!!

THAT'S what I am outraged about...not some ****ing network talking head!

OULenexaman
3/22/2010, 04:36 PM
tree hugging granola heads....

Jello Biafra
3/22/2010, 04:41 PM
I am SICK of this attitude that everybody owes you something...if something bad happens in your neighborhood, the government needs to come riding in and save the day...**** THAT, hike up your britches and HELP YOURSELF!!!




eggzactly...


thats why we are a free country right now because back in the mid 1700s we decided to take it upon ourselves to go out and take our freedom. no one gave it to us. you have a problem with being poor, pull your azz out of the ghetto, stop drinking the gin and juice, pull your FUGGING pants up, put on a belt and go to work.


here's a fishing pole. you put the worm on the hook, throw it in the water now wait. eventually, a fish will bite the hook. when the fish bites, you reel it in.

btk108
3/22/2010, 08:58 PM
Look at the states yelling unconstitutional. Way to go Obama, you're only cripping our country and starting a civil division, those who believe in the Constitution and those who want to be spoonfed and everything done for them.

Ardmore_Sooner
3/22/2010, 10:35 PM
This thread should be aborted.

GrapevineSooner
3/23/2010, 12:05 PM
I'm sorry, we don't have the funds available, Ardmore. ;)

TheHumanAlphabet
3/24/2010, 09:35 AM
Yeah, but their treatment consists of chicken bones, feathers and the blood of an emu.

Actually, Thailand is quite advanced and is becoming a place for tourist medicine with high end private hospitals and spa like hotels for the family.

TheHumanAlphabet
3/24/2010, 09:37 AM
i used to live in england. i dont recall anything of the sort.

Then please enlighten me. This is what I have been told by people living in Britian. And of course the horror stories we hear about the "famous" care in the hospital. Like the dying guy calling 911 (or equivalent) to get a drink of water becuase the hospital staff was ignoring him.