so can we see what's in it now?

[yermom]

so you have to pay for insurance? or the government gives us all health insurance?

is it too late to stock up on guns and ammo?

are we under martial law yet?

[SoonerBorn68]

Yes. No, but you'll be fined/ailed if you don't have it.

Walmart will be officially out of ammo by Monday night

No, but it's still early.:D

[Curly Bill]

Just when ammo was getting somewhat affordable again! :mad:

[setem]

So if I do not go get myself some health insurance(cant afford any right now)... I am going to be fined?

[Boarder]

Right after Obama was elected (or put into office by the Illuminati, if you prefer) a friend of mine who owns a sporting goods store was freaking out because they were selling out of ammo. Seems all
the fright-wingers had everyone convinced that it was being banned or something. I wondered why he was complaining about all the extra business. He should send Obama a thank you note.

[Boarder]

So if I do not go get myself some health insurance(cant afford any right now)... I am going to be fined?
You got until 2014. If you don't have it by then you'll have a tax penalty of $325.

[Curly Bill]

No doubt, guns and ammo makers have made out like bandits over the past year.

...and it's not just the fringe right-wingers either that stocked up.

[Boarder]

Fright wingers refers to those who make up the skeery "world is going to end" stories that make others do stuff (like stock up).

[Ike]

So from everything I've read recently, what has been passed is in essence "RomneyCare".

Interesting article here from David Frum:
http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo


A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?

I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Collier11 is a pain in the a$$. Who's going to pay for that?

[Ike]

Some are apparently claiming that there are some immediate benifits in this bill too.

Like this guy (http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/what-you-get-when-hcr-passes)

Here are ten benefits which come online within six months of the President's signature on the health care bill:

1)Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday
2)Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions
3)No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage
4)Free preventative care for all
5)Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.
6)Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.
7)The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.
8)Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.
9)Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.

In our community - half-rural and half-suburb -- 50 community health centers will receive funding to provide health and preventive services to people with no access right now. And that's just one benefit. They're all valuable.

But I don't know how much stock to put in a blog post titled "10 immediate benefits of HCR" that lists only 9. Unless maybe the 10th maybe is free 'medical' mary jane for all.

[GKeeper316]

The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.


ive said it before... rush fat *** dip**** ****ing limbaugh cares not a bit for the people or public policy. if he did, he'd put up or shut up and run for office.

all he cares about is ratings, which equals money in his pocket.

i still find it humorous that this asshat was taking as many as 30 oxycontin a day, all procurred illegally, and has yet to spend a single minute in jail for it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

ive said it before... rush fat *** dip**** ****ing limbaugh cares not a bit for the people or public policy. if he did, he'd put up or shut up and run for office.

all he cares about is ratings, which equals money in his pocket.

i still find it humorous that this asshat was taking as many as 30 oxycontin a day, all procurred illegally, and has yet to spend a single minute in jail for it.Who was it you quoted(it seems as though you believe what he said!!!!!-WOW!)What nonsense do you read, listen to, or watch, Gkeeper?

[GKeeper316]

so should he have been prosecuted for illegally aquiring prescription pharmacuticals or not?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

so should he have been prosecuted for illegally aquiring prescription pharmacuticals or not?Who knows, and that is not what we're talking about, anyway. You are one silly, misdirected guy. you act as though you don't understand America's anger over the govt. takeover of our economy, and seemingly intended destruction of it, at the same time. Instead, you get angry about people being upset by this. Very difficult to truly understand. You leftist guys don't have any grasp of how angry so many Americans are. Our economy is being destroyed, and THAT should perturb you, if you're apaying attention.
BTW, you didn't even answer who the idiot was you quoted.

[setem]

I will be teaching full time and coaching by 2014 so I should be okay...right? Is everything going to be okay man? Tell me everything is going to be okay!

[GKeeper316]

i was quoting the quoted article from frum in Ike's post above.

i understand the anger over this whole thing. i just disagree with them.

im a healthy guy. i havnt been sicka a day in over 10 years. i dont have a problem paying a little bit out of my pocket if it means somebody else that really needs it, can get the medical care he or she needs.

thats the difference between you guys and me. you're all so enraged over this thing that you fail to see the big picture. will it cost you a little bit of money? yes. is it worth it to have a healthier nation? i believe so. but i get why people disagree. i get that they think this is bad for them. but at the end of the day, not a whole lot is really going to change in america.

i disagree that the economy is going to be destroyed (at least more than it already has by greedy rich *******s on wall street, anyway). ill still be able to go see a movie when i want, buy a new video game when i want, go to a football game when i want, and for the most part none of you will notice that much of a change in 4 years when all this **** kicks in than what we have today.

personally i think we should fund the whole thing with a tax on fat people.

[GKeeper316]

Who was it you quoted(it seems as though you believe what he said!!!!!-WOW!)What nonsense do you read, listen to, or watch, Gkeeper?

ive worked in tv news for over a decade. i know exactly what motivates rush limbaugh.

[Boarder]

I will be teaching full time and coaching by 2014 so I should be okay...right? Is everything going to be okay man? Tell me everything is going to be okay!
No way, you're doomed. You knew that, though. There won't be schools for you to teach at in 2014. There will only be the kids brainwashing facilities like in Motley Crue's Smokin' in the Boys Room video.

[1890MilesToNorman]

Collier11 is a pain in the a$$. Who's going to pay for that?

The gubmint will cover the bill to remove his foot from your behind. ;)

[Fraggle145]

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Isnt that it?

[Ike]

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Isnt that it?

No wonder all these bills are so many pages long. Double spaced with only 5 inches of text between the margins...Jeebus!

I'll stop complaining about that now though. At least it's not written in comic sans.

[OklahomaTuba]

but at the end of the day, not a whole lot is really going to change in america.
Given that our real unemployment rate is now in the double digits and our national debt is so outta control our bond ratings are now in jeopardy, you are more right than you know.

[Dio]

personally i think we should fund the whole thing with a tax on fat people.

Give me my goodies and let someone else pay for them. First time I've heard this from a liberal :rolleyes:


ive worked in tv news for over a decade.

But there's no such thing as the "Liberal Media", right? ;)

[MR2-Sooner86]

personally i think we should fund the whole thing with a tax on fat people.

George Orwell would be so proud of you.

[GKeeper316]

Give me my goodies and let someone else pay for them. First time I've heard this from a liberal :rolleyes:



But there's no such thing as the "Liberal Media", right? ;)


fat people cost us more in the health problems they have from being fat than smokers, yet we ostricize smokers like they are nazis

and ya im a liberal, but it isnt my job to decide my show's content. i work production side (editing/shooting broll/etc.)

[Dio]

fat people cost us more in the health problems they have from being fat than smokers, yet we ostricize smokers like they are nazis

yet you want to use the oppression of smokers as a prototype for the oppression of the fat


and ya im a liberal, but it isnt my job to decide my show's content. i work production side (editing/shooting broll/etc.)

What percentage of conservatives do you work with vs. the % of liberals, and how does that compare to the con/ lib % breakdown in your market?

[Fraggle145]

yet you want to use the oppression of smokers as a prototype for the oppression of the fat



What percentage of conservatives do you work with vs. the % of liberals, and how does that compare to the con/ lib % breakdown in your market?

Smokers are cooler. Fat people stink. Literally.

[GKeeper316]

What percentage of conservatives do you work with vs. the % of liberals, and how does that compare to the con/ lib % breakdown in your market?

honestly at my station, im in the minority. most of our reporters and producers are constantly shoving jesus down my throat and sending out station wide emails about how thier pastors told them obama was satan.

[Stitch Face]

ill still be able to go see a movie when i want, buy a new video game when i want, go to a football game when i want

Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is the ultimate definition of "freedom" to people like GKeeper.




Hey, GKeeper, how would you like the liberty to govern your own medical decisions, plan for your own retirement, start a small business...

What? None of those things matter to you as long as you're "free" to make meaningless decisions about mundane things in life and engage in cheap entertainment? I'm shocked.

[soonerbrat]

Indoor tanning beds will have a 10% tax starting July this year. the GTL boys will be upset.

[soonerbrat]

and what your company pays for your health insurance will be included on your W-2 now.

[Stitch Face]

Indoor tanning beds will have a 10% tax starting July this year. the GTL boys will be upset.

This is why my outdoor tanning bed business is booming!

[Dio]

and what your company pays for your health insurance will be included on your W-2 now.

In other words....a tax increase on the middle class.

[soonerbrat]

In other words....a tax increase on the middle class.

yes. My paycheck will be about $300/month less now. that's actually a lot for me.

[btk108]

get your insurance now....or be fined....and guess who's enforcing it...yep, that's right, the IRS. Not only can they attach everything you own or will own, but now they are going to be = to law enforcement. Tell your children to pay their insurance premiums or the next thing they'll hear is the door being kicked in and the yelling of "IRS, freeze and put your hands in the air". The government just empowered the wrong agency.

[soonerbrat]

if anyone wants a copy of the bill that was written July 14, 2009 peem me. i have a pdf of it. it's 1017 pages, 1.75 MB and i'm not sure what changes have been made since then, but if you want a copy, let me know.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Ladies and gentlemen, THIS is the ultimate definition of "freedom" to people like GKeeper.




Hey, GKeeper, how would you like the liberty to govern your own medical decisions, plan for your own retirement, start a small business...

What? None of those things matter to you as long as you're "free" to make meaningless decisions about mundane things in life and engage in cheap entertainment? I'm shocked.EXCELLENT!

[NormanPride]

No way, you're doomed. You knew that, though. There won't be schools for you to teach at in 2014. There will only be the kids brainwashing facilities like in Motley Crue's Smokin' in the Boys Room video.

Dammit, Boarder, I had JUST gotten that song out of my head. ***.

[Harry Beanbag]

if anyone wants a copy of the bill that was written July 14, 2009 peem me. i have a pdf of it. it's 1017 pages, 1.75 MB and i'm not sure what changes have been made since then, but if you want a copy, let me know.

Doesn't the one the ****ers just passed have something like 2400 pages?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Doesn't the one the ****ers just passed have something like 2400 pages?She only received Volume 1.