Team Speed 1977

[Leroy Lizard]

We always talk about players being a lot faster today than in the past. So I watched this clip of the OU/OSU game in 1977. Is it me, or do both teams look as fast as teams today?

Check out our first play on defense and Sim's run into the end zone on the following play. Also the next play on defense.

At first, I thought maybe the playback had been sped up slightly, but Keith Jackson's voice sounds normal.

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01qIrdfWlAs

[BoulderSooner79]

Barry was always recruiting speed back then. They used speak more in terms of 4.5 speed instead of 4.4 speed, so I don't think their exaggeration times were nearly as good as today. ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

They didn't have the SEC paving the way toward a new generation of hyped 40-yard dash times.

[ndpruitt03]

I don't know if the players are faster but they are bigger and faster for those sizes if you get what I mean. Back then how many big guys could run like some of the big guys today?

[Leroy Lizard]

Big? Or fat?

I remember Anthony Phillips catching some flak from announcers over his mid-section flab. Today he would be a lean, mean, fighting machine.

[DarrellZero]

Man the wishbone was a turnover-bot in those days.

[MeMyself&Me]

Man the wishbone was a championship-bot in those days.

fixed.

[ndpruitt03]

Big? Or fat?

I remember Anthony Phillips catching some flak from announcers over his mid-section flab. Today he would be a lean, mean, fighting machine.

Not just fat but even some of the taller guys weren't as fast as some of the taller guys now. A big exception in the 80s was Keith Jackson. Size is the big difference now between any era in the past. If you watch entire games of the 50s it was a much faster game back then in some ways. But the guys that were big or tall weren't usually that fast in the past.

[Tigeman]

The thing is not so much that the HS talent is that much faster, it's that Strength and Conditioning training the kids recieve these days do help them to shave that extra 1/2 sec. off their times they wouldn't normally be able to do. So watching them running down the field, your not gonna see it. But if you clocked them, you would, and you may see it on bursts through holes.

The big guys are more flexible nowadays and their muscles are more finely attuned.... .thus they can move around a bit better.

That being said, there are some High Schools that have very sophisticated training programs. So those kids are faster as a result.

The thing to keep in mind is we're prob. only talking 1/2 second faster now vs. then. It's all in the training though.... same with Olympic track athletes. There's a reason records get broke all the time, when they used to stand for decades.

[Leroy Lizard]

The thing to keep in mind is we're prob. only talking 1/2 second faster now vs. then.

4.5 versus 5.0?

[Sooner04]

Today may be "faster", but there's nobody on the planet today who hits the hole any faster than we did back then.

[OKLA21FAN]

the switzer bone was all about running 'north/south' and 'pitch relationship'.

it looks faster, but it really isn't. imo

you don't see much lineman pulling or running down the line, as well as the RBs.

it was moire of exploding off the line. (and Miami put a stop to that with faster more athletic D tackles)

that being said.....its time for someone to bring back the bone damn it!

[Mazeppa]

Did you notice how wide those goal post were?

[Leroy Lizard]

Sims looked especially fast. If he played for Florida today, he would be listed at 4.25.

[Tigeman]

4.5 versus 5.0?

Yep! Exactly! Of course 1/2 sec is kind of an extreme end if you ask me, but there are some that can shave that much off. Now you see ALOT of speed guys listed w/ 4.4X times. In fact I don't think it'd be to far of a leap to say the top guys Average 4.4X times. In the past though, speed guys were prob. rare to be in the 4.4X area. In fact the top guys probably averaged closer to 4.8x-4.9x area. Training methods now vs. back then are enough to maximize an athlete's efforts.... so that he can shave those tenths of seconds off. But 2-3 tenths of a second really only show on the stop watch, so we're kind of just splitting hairs.

I am referring to 50's era vs. now above though. As time progressed into the Switzer era you saw training improve. Times dropped from the 4.8-4.9 area to 4.5 as training began to become more scientific, but it should be noted that recruiting changed too! Now you have the same type of guys being recruited, but training has got even better and you now see quite a few guys breaking the 4.4X zone.

[ndpruitt03]

The 50s were completely different because Bud basically recruited speed at every position. Nobody was over 220 lbs on the entire roster. You couldn't have that football team exist now even if everyone ran 4.2 flats.

[rainiersooner]

I can't believe we let OSU score 28 points on us. Fire Venables.

[Leroy Lizard]

Interesting blurb:


Oh -- a word of caution in closing. You have to be careful when you're clocking a player as Brandt discovered when he timed a guy once at a college in the South. The player ran an impressive time, but it turned out that instead of a 40-yard dash, he actually had run a 38 1/2 yard dash. The distance was paced off improperly, either by accident or by design. Ever since then, Brandt has always been sure to pack a tape measure.

Note: SOUTH

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/24/the-40-yard-dash-has-a-long-history-behind-it/

[KantoSooner]

I remember the 1970's (especially) and the 1980's teams as seeming faster than today's; but that's probably as much to do with the greater emphasis on pass protection today.
That being said, Switzer liked speed and felt that there is no substitute. Look at some of the Joe Washington highlights and you'll see interior linemen at least making the effort to chase after RBs in case they had to cut back...and with Joe Washington, it very often was not a wasted effort.

[NormanPride]

Today may be "faster", but there's nobody on the planet today who hits the hole any faster than we did back then.

Giggity.

[MclOUvin]

giggity goo

[Half a Hundred]

There's a reason records get broke all the time, when they used to stand for decades.

Yeah. PEDs.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I have yet to see anyone run as fast as the baseball players in the 20's and 30's on those newsreels.

[Leroy Lizard]

The Keystone Kops were pretty incredible too. Even the fat one.

[boomermagic]

the switzer bone was all about running 'north/south' and 'pitch relationship'.

it looks faster, but it really isn't. imo

you don't see much lineman pulling or running down the line, as well as the RBs.

it was moire of exploding off the line. (and Miami put a stop to that with faster more athletic D tackles)

that being said.....its time for someone to bring back the bone damn it!

Miami didn't put a stop to an offensive formation.. It would not have mattered what formation we were in Miami was the better team and thats why they beat us.. Hell, They beat everyone else too.. It had NOTHING to do with us being in the wishbone formation at all..

[OUmillenium]

I remember the 1970's (especially) and the 1980's teams as seeming faster than today's; but that's probably as much to do with the greater emphasis on pass protection today.
That being said, Switzer liked speed and felt that there is no substitute. Look at some of the Joe Washington highlights and you'll see interior linemen at least making the effort to chase after RBs in case they had to cut back...and with Joe Washington, it very often was not a wasted effort.

I've caught some games from the 70s and early/mid 80s on ESPN Classic lately, including the OU-Ohio St game, and those OU teams (and opponents like Nebbish) seem more explosive than modern teams. Maybe its the cameras, maybe its the style of play, I don't know. Really fun to watch the wishbone when its ran properly with great athletes.

[Leroy Lizard]

Miami didn't put a stop to an offensive formation.. It would not have mattered what formation we were in Miami was the better team and thats why they beat us.. Hell, They beat everyone else too.. It had NOTHING to do with us being in the wishbone formation at all..

Agreed.

I got sick of people saying "You can't win national championship games with the bone." So Gibbs junked it. And we didn't lose any national championship games under Gibbs.

I suppose the debacle this year in Lincoln proves that we need a whole new offense.

[Leroy Lizard]

I've caught some games from the 70s and early/mid 80s on ESPN Classic lately, including the OU-Ohio St game, and those OU teams (and opponents like Nebbish) seem more explosive than modern teams. Maybe its the cameras, maybe its the style of play, I don't know. Really fun to watch the wishbone when its ran properly with great athletes.

The offensive lines appeared much quicker and came off the snap faster. Each lineman had a place he needed to be real soon after the snap. And I think that was the difference.

[goingoneight]

Running the ball isn't about how quickly your carrier can run in gym shorts and tennis shoes in March... it's about the line play, the quickness of the execution and the skill of the players you're working with. I'll take Joe Washington or AD anyday over the "speedsters" barely cracking 500 yards at Florida.

I've never understood why a option or wishbone team doesn't implement the play-action pass more than most of them do. With the dominance of a truly great wishbone team on the ground... it should open up lots of downfield opportunities.

[Sooner04]

'78 Texas game was on ESPN Classic the other day. We're at their 30 or so, and it's 3rd and 6. Lott fakes to the FB and starts down the line a couple of steps and then begins his dropback. He lets it fly and throws a TD to the corner.

Obvious passing down, but the sell had everybody and their dog frozen on the burnt orange side of the ball. Touchdown Oklahoma!

JIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMINY CHRISTMAS!

[OUmillenium]

Yep, that's one of the recent classics I have seen. Lots of speed in that game.

[Sooner04]

They gave the ball to King up the gut on the second or third play and he was at warp speed after about three strides. The quickness on display was shocking, especially on the O-line.

They opened a hole on the first TD for Sims that would've had Moe Dampeer high-stepping in from about 15 yards out.

[NMSooner'80]

They gave the ball to King up the gut on the second or third play and he was at warp speed after about three strides. The quickness on display was shocking, especially on the O-line.

They opened a hole on the first TD for Sims that would've had Moe Dampeer high-stepping in from about 15 yards out.


I was there! And that's 100% true about that play.

The next year, the Dallas papers made a big deal about how our rebuilt O-Line was bigger than the Dallas Cowboys' front. They averaged about 255.

[texaspokieokie]

Kenny King was especially fast for a fullback.

my favorite is Greg Pruitt, very quick !!!

still can't get over 9.36 yards per carry, as in 1971.

[BoulderSooner79]

Kenny King was listed as the fastest of the starting backs in '78 as I recall. Didn't have the vision or wiggle of a Billy Sims, but man did he hit it quick. Had a nice career with the Raiders including a SB ring. He had an 80 yard catch and run TD in that game.

[MiccoMacey]

I remember Anthony Phillips catching some flak from announcers over his mid-section flab. Today he would be a lean, mean, fighting machine.

Today, he is a lean, mean fighting machine.

I saw him just a few years ago and he had slimmed waaaaaay down.

And I think speed is relative...there may have been some kids that ran as fast as the kids today, but overall as a group, kids run faster.

The amount of kids who ran a legit 4.6 in the '70's are fewer than the amount of kids that can do it today.

[OKLA21FAN]

'78 Texas game was on ESPN Classic the other day. We're at their 30 or so, and it's 3rd and 6. Lott fakes to the FB and starts down the line a couple of steps and then begins his dropback. He lets it fly and throws a TD to the corner.

Obvious passing down, but the sell had everybody and their dog frozen on the burnt orange side of the ball. Touchdown Oklahoma!

JIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMINY CHRISTMAS!
that dude could throw a tight spiral :pop:

[Leroy Lizard]

Maybe you were being sarcastic. Most of his passes looked like punts to me.

[OKLA21FAN]

Maybe you were being sarcastic. Most of his passes looked like punts to me.

not the ones I saw. the tightest spiral evar! now they may have been two zip codes away from the intended receiver, but thats another story. :pop:

[agoo758]

I will refrain from using a recycled and lame family guy joke.

fixed.:O

[Leroy Lizard]

the tightest spiral evar!

Yeah, but about which axis?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yeah, but about which axis?

Bold as Love?

[unbiasedtruth]

how many TOs did those 2 Norman High QBs. Dean and Jay have that game......

[jkjsooner]

The 50s were completely different because Bud basically recruited speed at every position. Nobody was over 220 lbs on the entire roster. You couldn't have that football team exist now even if everyone ran 4.2 flats.

I think two platoon football had a lot to do with the increasing size of players. In a one platoon system (like they had in much of the '50s) I can't imagine there being a lot of 300 lbs lineman.

On another note, I've wondered (at least in the U.S.) if the rise of collegiate athletics has acted as a selective breeding ground for super-athletes. It's very likely that two good athletes will meet in college and end up mating. Look at AD - the son of a track mom and basketball playing dad. I don't think they attended the same school so maybe that isn't the greates example but you get my point...