Just filled out and sent in my Census form

[LosAngelesSooner]

I don't know what all you big freakin' babies were crying about. Seriously. From what you made it sound like I thought there were gonna be questions in there like, "What is your ATM pin code?" and "Do you hang to the right or the left."

As it was, it was about the most painless thing ever. Seriously. SERIOUSLY.

Unless you're a Unibomber type living in the sticks, hiding out from the government because you've got an outstanding warrant then you're just a huge, whiny ***** for even complaining about this silly little thing.

Now, the complaints about the wasted money on the letter to warn you about the upcoming letter which warned you that you had to fill out the soon to be arriving Census form...THOSE were warranted and I agreed with fully.

But the Bachman complaints, etc, etc, were just a bunch of GROTESQUELY whiny, crybaby, partisan bull honkey.

'Nuff said. :cool:

[Jello Biafra]

I don't know what all you big freakin' babies were crying about. Seriously. From what you made it sound like I thought there were gonna be questions in there like, "What is your ATM pin code?" and "Do you hang to the right or the left."

As it was, it was about the most painless thing ever. Seriously. SERIOUSLY.

Unless you're a Unibomber type living in the sticks, hiding out from the government because you've got an outstanding warrant then you're just a huge, whiny ***** for even complaining about this silly little thing.

Now, the complaints about the wasted money on the letter to warn you about the upcoming letter which warned you that you had to fill out the soon to be arriving Census form...THOSE were warranted and I agreed with fully.

But the Bachman complaints, etc, etc, were just a bunch of GROTESQUELY whiny, crybaby, partisan bull honkey.

'Nuff said. :cool:

im left handed so I hang to the left but, about 8 inches down, it curves to the right so.....im not sure..

[OKLA21FAN]

all questions answered here

Merca.....love it or leave it!!!! :pop:

[delhalew]

You haven't received Part 2 the survey...this time its personal. Coming to a theater near you.

[Scott D]

I'm holding out for the version that asks me what I think a fair number is for my reparations ;)

[OhU1]

Yeah, I hear ya. My co-worker (who looks exactly like Lee Harvey Oswald) claims he's answering but writing in something like Article 2, Section whatever in protest on his form because "the government is only entitled to know how many people live in your home." I wonder sometimes why only middle aged white guys find the energy to get worked up over this kind of stuff?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Looks like the Knitting Circle is on a "1 Star Rampage" again! :D

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yeah, I hear ya. My co-worker (who looks exactly like Lee Harvey Oswald) claims he's answering but writing in something like Article 2, Section whatever in protest on his form because "the government is only entitled to know how many people live in your home." I wonder sometimes why only middle aged white guys find the energy to get worked up over this kind of stuff?Exactly. Then they scream about "It ain't about race!!!!" Which makes me go, "WTF does that have to do with anything?" :confused:

[JLEW1818]

great thread las

[SoonerBorn68]

I'm holding out for the version that asks me what I think a fair number is for my reparations ;)

'bout tree fiddy?

[salth2o]

'bout tree fiddy?

and a half eaten bag of cheetos.

[SunnySooner]

I filled mine out, and I had to leave out Sand Box Hubby. Which felt REALLY weird. But they said DO NOT COUNT MILITARY folks who were not in the house on 4/1. So I didn't. Hope he gets counted. I mean, I'm counting on him being back. Do they know sumthin' I don't?

[Tailwind]

I haven't even opened mine yet. Do I have to count my furry and feathered family?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Do I have to count my furry and feathered family?

I thought what's his name said you got a wax.

[Tailwind]

What's his name?

[btk108]

I don't know what all you big freakin' babies were crying about. Seriously. From what you made it sound like I thought there were gonna be questions in there like, "What is your ATM pin code?" and "Do you hang to the right or the left."

As it was, it was about the most painless thing ever. Seriously. SERIOUSLY.

Unless you're a Unibomber type living in the sticks, hiding out from the government because you've got an outstanding warrant then you're just a huge, whiny ***** for even complaining about this silly little thing.

Now, the complaints about the wasted money on the letter to warn you about the upcoming letter which warned you that you had to fill out the soon to be arriving Census form...THOSE were warranted and I agreed with fully.

But the Bachman complaints, etc, etc, were just a bunch of GROTESQUELY whiny, crybaby, partisan bull honkey.

'Nuff said. :cool:

nice rant....why did I waste my time reading this again? We're not freakin idiots and as a CITIZEN, we're obligated to answer the census. Who were you aiming this at?

[LosAngelesSooner]

nice rant....why did I waste my time reading this again? We're not freakin idiots and as a CITIZEN, we're obligated to answer the census. Who were you aiming this at?Oh, gee...I don't know. Maybe you could take six seconds and look around the South Oval and come up with that answer all by yourself.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

I miss the old SO. *Sigh*

[NormanPride]

The SO was never good.

[LosAngelesSooner]

^^^NOT TRUE! 1998-2000 it was rad.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

What's his name?



http://origin.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/thumb/200/200/white_flag.jpg

[NormanPride]

^^^NOT TRUE! 1998-2000 it was rad.

Wasn't everyone on the football board then? I didn't join up here until later.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

But the Bachman complaints, etc, etc, were just a bunch of GROTESQUELY whiny, crybaby, partisan bull honkey.

'Nuff said. :cool:

No, they aren't. And not nearly enough has been said. Because at the core of this debate is illegal immigration.

As long as states are allowed to "House-pack" by counting illegal immigrants, citizens will slowly but surely have their fair representation stripped. I don't want illegal immigrants counted as part of this nation. And I sure as hell don't want them voting.

It is painfully easy for illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot box with their illegal votes in Minnesota (you only need proof of residence, not citizenship), which they did in both the case of Keith Ellison and Al Franken. And surprise surprise, Minnesota is one of the states that may lose one of its House seats because of the expected illegal counts in southern states. Gee, you don't suppose that seat will be a more rural traditionally Republican-held seat do you? No, surely not.

I want these illegals located and shipped out unequivocally, without due process. I don't want them counted. I don't want them voting. They aren't citizens. They don't deserve due process. And no, I do not care if it "breaks up families". If one of our own citizens casts their lot with an illegal, that's their problem.

And if you are thinking of going down the path of "don't those illegal immigrants deserve the Statue of Liberty treatment all our forefathers received?" Don't bother. My answer is no. Not unless it's done legally, through legal channels. My ancestors immigrated legally to this country. I expect those wishing to become contributing citizens here to do the same.

This is a vastly different world, with vastly different economics, and vastly more complex problems, than that of 100 years ago when you could count industrialized nations on one hand.

As a nation, we have the right to protect resources and not let them be eroded by outside influences, such as illegal migrant workers (in multiple industries) that wire all of their earnings back to their home nations instead of re-investing it in our economy, all while not paying taxes.

We have the right, as a nation, to demand that citizens of other countries fix their own houses and/or go through proper (legal) channels to illustrate that they are contributing members of their native society before they are allowed to become a part of ours. Otherwise you get an endless cycle of, for example, the U.S. inexplicably re-introducing jihadists back to their home countries after they've lived off the fat of the land here.

Is it partisan? Yup. Because the illegal populace votes for socialism. Notice I didn't say liberalism.. or progressivism... but socialism. And whether you want to swallow that bitter pill or not, the socialists in this country only belong to one party... and that party's mascot is not an elephant. (Fittingly, that party's mascot is an ***.)

Illegals want the promise of free money whether they are doing any earning or not. And again, even when they are earning, they are not always paying the taxes which are likewise necessary to support that promise of free money (or healthcare, or transportation, or infrastructure, or housing, or defense, etc.)

So as grotesque as Michelle Bachman may be to you, even if we agree she can be a little over the top, she is at least trying to protect this nation and her constituency, whose financial, if not natural, resources are already at the breaking point. All the while illegals continue to add more dead weight and criminality to this nation than they do meaningful contribution.

And so the census, as it is being conducted, is bankrupting this nation, in every sense of the word.

[Scott D]

I disagree odie, you can't bankrupt something that has been bankrupt for decades.

[LosAngelesSooner]

No, they aren't. And not nearly enough has been said. Because at the core of this debate is illegal immigration.

As long as states are allowed to "House-pack" by counting illegal immigrants, citizens will slowly but surely have their fair representation stripped. I don't want illegal immigrants counted as part of this nation. And I sure as hell don't want them voting.

It is painfully easy for illegal immigrants to stuff the ballot box with their illegal votes in Minnesota (you only need proof of residence, not citizenship), which they did in both the case of Keith Ellison and Al Franken. And surprise surprise, Minnesota is one of the states that may lose one of its House seats because of the expected illegal counts in southern states. Gee, you don't suppose that seat will be a more rural traditionally Republican-held seat do you? No, surely not.

I want these illegals located and shipped out unequivocally, without due process. I don't want them counted. I don't want them voting. They aren't citizens. They don't deserve due process. And no, I do not care if it "breaks up families". If one of our own citizens casts their lot with an illegal, that's their problem.

And if you are thinking of going down the path of "don't those illegal immigrants deserve the Statue of Liberty treatment all our forefathers received?" Don't bother. My answer is no. Not unless it's done legally, through legal channels. My ancestors immigrated legally to this country. I expect those wishing to become contributing citizens here to do the same.

This is a vastly different world, with vastly different economics, and vastly more complex problems, than that of 100 years ago when you could count industrialized nations on one hand.

As a nation, we have the right to protect resources and not let them be eroded by outside influences, such as illegal migrant workers (in multiple industries) that wire all of their earnings back to their home nations instead of re-investing it in our economy, all while not paying taxes.

We have the right, as a nation, to demand that citizens of other countries fix their own houses and/or go through proper (legal) channels to illustrate that they are contributing members of their native society before they are allowed to become a part of ours. Otherwise you get an endless cycle of, for example, the U.S. inexplicably re-introducing jihadists back to their home countries after they've lived off the fat of the land here.

Is it partisan? Yup. Because the illegal populace votes for socialism. Notice I didn't say liberalism.. or progressivism... but socialism. And whether you want to swallow that bitter pill or not, the socialists in this country only belong to one party... and that party's mascot is not an elephant. (Fittingly, that party's mascot is an ***.)

Illegals want the promise of free money whether they are doing any earning or not. And again, even when they are earning, they are not always paying the taxes which are likewise necessary to support that promise of free money (or healthcare, or transportation, or infrastructure, or housing, or defense, etc.)

So as grotesque as Michelle Bachman may be to you, even if we agree she can be a little over the top, she is at least trying to protect this nation and her constituency, whose financial, if not natural, resources are already at the breaking point. All the while illegals continue to add more dead weight and criminality to this nation than they do meaningful contribution.

And so the census, as it is being conducted, is bankrupting this nation, in every sense of the word.
This whole post is complete paranoid drivel. LOL Thanks for the laugh.

[C&CDean]

This whole post is complete paranoid drivel. LOL Thanks for the laugh.

Time out. If you've got a counter-point state it. If you're just going to attack a poster (one that you don't already have a butt-**** relationship with that is) unprovoked, then **** up a rope. You only know cali-crap and don't have a clue about the real world. Give your tripe a rest every so often.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Time out. If you've got a counter-point state it. If you're just going to attack a poster (one that you don't already have a butt-**** relationship with that is) unprovoked, then **** up a rope. You only know cali-crap and don't have a clue about the real world. Give your tripe a rest every so often.I have no idear what you're talking about. :D

[C&CDean]

Probably the most factual thing you've said in months my man. No idear at all...

[LosAngelesSooner]

Okay, I re-read it and pretended that punctuation no longer mattered and now I think I get what you were saying. ;)

As for the fact that his post was paranoid drivel, it's pretty self-explanatory.

Unless, of course, you think the Founding Fathers were planning for the eventual Messican takeover of the United States over 200 years in the future.

Those crafty Deists. Forcing their non-Christian views on all of us and encouraging their 250 year in the future Socialist Agenda!!!! :D

[LosAngelesSooner]

Not to mention that the "round 'em up, ignore the rule of law and store 'em in camps until we can get the Messicans out of here!!!" is impractical, unrealistic, Nationalistic tripe that only...(wait for it)...Hitler could be proud of.

And if you think our economy is bankrupt NOW...go through the cost of deporting our entire menial labor force and see where we stand after THAT.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Sorry...what that too "real world" for ya?

Didn't mean to let logic and practicality creep into the discussion.

Lemme try again...

http://www.ultramegatshirts.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/268.jpg

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Unless, of course, you think the Founding Fathers were planning for the eventual Messican takeover of the United States over 200 years in the future.

Those crafty Deists. Forcing their non-Christian views on all of us and encouraging their 250 year in the future Socialist Agenda!!!! :D


Gah!

Oh, neat trick... saying my argument(s) are only valid if something that clearly was not intended was intended... thereby invalidating my argument(s)?

Ok. Let's pretend that in 1789, Mexico was even a blip on the consience of the Founding Fathers. It wasn't, but let's pretend.

Are you saying that even if they could have planned for Mexico's own colonial ambitions that they would have planned to let those go unfettered in the face of their own visions for the shape of the continent?

Do you really believe that? Well heck, maybe illegal immigration particularly from Mexico today perhaps is an extension of the war Mexico lost, if you want to make that stretch. Regardless, you're comparing that to another age 100 years ago, or 120 years from the Founding Fathers, where this country was begging for a workforce. That isn't the case anymore. I'm talking about today. Not 1789. Not 1910. Today.

Oh, and as for "rounding up and shipping out" a la Hitler... Well LAH DE FREAKIN DA! WCS! (Weak Cheap Shot!)

I am not talking about hurting, executing, or denying basic human rights. I'm talking about sending people back to their homes, unfortunately as crappy as they might be, until such time that they decide to apply legally to be citizens, or even legal resident aliens, of this county. If they do so legally, under established State Department guidelines, I'm all for it.

And hey, as far as the "massive expense" of doing that, law enforcement is a job, and this country needs jobs right now. I'd rather have people earning it that way than suffering on the dole.

And I know it's the racist's favorite argument, but I have friends, coworkers, and acquaintences who are Spanish/Latino. I was engaged to a dark-skinned Spanish woman in my younger days. All were American citizens or legal resident aliens. I speak Spanish for crying out loud. So again, on the Hitler comparison, chill. Not cool.

And frankly, I think of my views on illegal immigration as protecting their hard-earned jobs, too. (THEY TOOK MAH FRIEND'S JAWBS!)

I'll over-simplify... Do you know of any sort of growth that can go unfettered and not eventually do serious damage? Take that from our own hooman bodies all the way up to massive bloated nations/government.

If that seems harsh and you suppose I am thinking can just let our fellow man suffer outside our borders without consequence, you couldn't be more wrong in your assessment.

It's pretty freakin' hard for us to help anyone if we ourselves are crippled. Am I overstating we have reached our breaking point? Perhaps. But there is a breaking point out there. Do you really want to reach it?

[LosAngelesSooner]

So do we send the Irish back to their homes, too?

And the Italians? How about the Swedish? Shoot...what about the English?

Or do we only send brown people back to their homes? :pop:

And for the record...I wasn't comparing YOU to Hitler. But the idea of rounding up an entire ethnic minority into camps so you can heard them off in trans, planes and automobiles is something only a Nationalist like Hitler could support.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I want these illegals located and shipped out unequivocally, without due process. I don't want them counted. I don't want them voting.
most of them don't want to be counted. most don't give a damn about voting either.

Here's to due process: http://www.visapro.com/Download/Deportation-Stay-Form.pdf



As a nation, we have the right to protect resources and not let them be eroded by outside influences

take off the blinders. a plentiful supply of inexpensive labor is beneficial. it increases productivity. we need to reform worker visa laws so they can work legally. [/quote]




such as illegal migrant workers (in multiple industries) that wire all of their earnings back to their home nations instead of re-investing it in our economy

in a 13 trillion dollar economy, the wires are a pi$$ in the pacific ocean. it's their LABOR that is valuable, not the multiplier effect of their earnings. and it's the multiplier effect of the earnings of their employers and vendors of those employers that are also valuable.



all while not paying taxes

what makes you believe they don't pay taxes?


We have the right, as a nation, to demand that citizens of other countries fix their own houses

I should have the right to hire the best worker for the job. and if he needs a worker visa, the scrubby little bureaucrats should kiss the a$$es those in the private sector who actually create wealth.


Because the illegal populace votes for socialism
the number who actually vote is miniscule.



Illegals want the promise of free money whether they are doing any earning or not. .
if the illegals in your neighborhood are collecting free money instead of working, you need to move to a nicer trailer park. a higher percentage of illegals work than citizens do. that's the main reason they come here. to work.

[Harry Beanbag]

The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Arizonans: Executive Summary


Executive Summary


Analysis of the latest Census data indicates that Arizona’s illegal immigrant population is costing the state’s taxpayers about $1.3 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. Even if the estimated tax contributions of illegal immigrant workers are subtracted, net outlays still amount to about $1.3 billion per year. The annual fiscal burden borne by Arizonans amounts to more than $700 per household headed by a native-born resident.

This analysis looks specifically at the costs of education, health care and incarceration because they represent the largest cost areas and because a 1994 study conducted by the Urban Institute, which also examined these same costs, provides a useful baseline for comparison ten years later. Other studies have been conducted in the interim, showing trends that support the conclusions of this report.

As this report will note, other significant costs associated with illegal immigration exist and should be taken into account by federal and state officials. But even without accounting for all of the multitude of areas in which costs are being incurred by Arizona taxpayers, the programs analyzed in this study indicate that the burden is substantial and that the costs are rapidly increasing.

The $1.3 billion in costs incurred by Arizona taxpayers is comprised of outlays in the following areas:

Education. Based on estimates of the illegal immigrant population in Arizona and documented costs of K-12 schooling, Arizonans spend approximately $820 million annually on education for illegal immigrant children and for their U.S.-born siblings.
Health Care. Uncom-pensated medical outlays for health care provided to the state’s illegal alien population is now estimated at about $400 million a year.
Incarceration. The cost of incarcerating illegal aliens in Arizona prisons and jails amounts to about $80 million a year (not including the monetary costs of the crimes that led to their incarceration).The unauthorized immigrant population pays some state and local taxes that go toward offsetting these costs, but they do not come near to matching the expenses. The total of such payments might generously be estimated at $257 million per year.

The fiscal costs of illegal immigration do not end with these three major cost items. The total costs of illegal immigration to the state’s taxpayers would be considerably higher if other costs such as special English instruction, school nutrition programs, or welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal alien workers were added into the equation.


Here's the tip of the iceberg, just for Arizona mind you.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters5e3 f

[Harry Beanbag]

most of them don't want to be counted. most don't give a damn about voting either.


That's part of the problem, they don't give a damn about assimilating into American society.

[MclOUvin]

no I didnt get any bailout money, yes I want some...is there a place for suggestions?

[Stitch Face]

You guys have no possible argument. Go back and read the OP.

He clearly stated "nuff said" right there at the end.


And "seriously." Twice. So you know it's serious.

[JohnnyMack]

One of the reasons I am more and more supportive of the Fair Tax idea is that it would force those people who are here illegally to pay back in to the tax base a little bit more equally. Don't fool yourself into thinking that most illegals don't take cash for the work they perform, cause they do. And while I'm not of the "ship every last one of them back to Messico" idea, I do think that implementing a tax system whereby Juan and his family pay the same tax rate at Wally World for their stuff as I do would make me a little bit happier. And it would possibly incentivize the illegals to work towards legal status as the fair tax would allow a tax exemption to those operating below the poverty line.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

.... And it would possibly incentivize the illegals to work towards legal status ...


I'm talking about sending people back to their homes, unfortunately as crappy as they might be, until such time that they decide to apply legally to be citizens, or even legal resident aliens, of this county. If they do so legally, under established State Department guidelines, I'm all for it.


no doubt a black market of labor is undesirable for several reasons. But it's disingenuous to imply that they simply failed to apply for legal status in a proper way. We had a booming economy for nearly a solid 25 years that created between 500,000 to 1,000,000 net new jobs every year, including many that were in the hotel/restaurant, food prep, agriculture, maintenance, construction areas that need inexpensive low skill, often seasonal, labor.

And now they say 12 million illegals are here. What would you guess for the number of Mexicans illegally present? 5 or 6 million? OK, there's a cap of about 26,000 new family or employment visas per year from a single country. Only 5000 low-skill permanent resident visas for all countries combined. For a brother or sister of a U.S. citizen it's estimated to be a 20 year wait for one of those 26,000 family-based visas. And while you're waiting you can't come to visit legally. There are millions of Mexicans illegally present who are in line and have been for many years.

But for many of the 5 or 6 million, there isn't a legal path and never was. Just a job.



Now for that website "fairUS".... naming it "fair U.S." is like a country covered in ice naming itself Greenland. These analyses conveniently leave out the value of their labor.

Let's see how this works for a small set of legal U.S. citizens: my next-door neighbors. On one side is a civil engineer employed by the state of California with a wife who is a public school teacher. Total annual income and benefits probably $180,000. They have two daughters who both went to 13 years of public schools and both are presently attending public colleges: Cost of education several hundred thousand to the taxpayer (and no doubt benefits included health care of children).

On the other side of me is a retired couple. Public school teacher and county hospital adminstrator both drawing pensions, probably over $100,000/year. Their two kids both attending 13 years of public school and public universities - cost to taxpayer: hundreds of thousands. Their health care too.

Across the street: police officer and his public-school educated son. Total compensation probably $100,000/year or so.

So just 3 of my neighbor's households account for 4 or 5 hundred thousand dollars or so cost to the taxpayers each year. Certainly an amount not close to being off-set by the taxes they pay. I bet the state and property taxes they pay don't even cover the cost of their health care and education of their kids.

But what am I forgetting? THE BENEFIT OF THEIR LABOR!


And there are lots of middle class and well-to-do folks who benefit from the labor of migrants because they are directly or indirectly connected economically in wealth creating enterprises.


We need immigration reform that includes accessible worker visas. The number could flucuate for the periods of growth and periods of recessions. Many Mexicans would prefer legal circular migration, with a permanent residence in Mexico. Seasonal labor fits well for both parties in this case. Others may wish to emigrate permanently. Worker visas would allow our gov't to track their status and perhaps after a few good years qualify them for legal permanent residence.

[Harry Beanbag]

no doubt a black market of labor is undesirable for several reasons. But it's disingenuous to imply that they simply failed to apply for legal status in a proper way. We had a booming economy for nearly a solid 25 years that created between 500,000 to 1,000,000 net new jobs every year, including many that were in the hotel/restaurant, food prep, agriculture, maintenance, construction areas that need inexpensive low skill, often seasonal, labor.

And now they say 12 illegals are here. What would you guess for the number of Mexicans illegally present? 5 or 6 million? OK, there's a cap of about 26,000 new family or employment visas per year from a single country. Only 5000 low-skill permanent resident visas for all countries combined. For a brother or sister of a U.S. citizen it's estimated to be a 20 year wait for one of those 26,000 family-based visas. And while you're waiting you can't come to visit legally. There are millions of Mexicans illegally present who are in line and have been for many years.

But for many of the 5 or 6 million, there isn't a legal path and never was. Just a job.



Now for that website "fairUS".... naming it "fair U.S." is like a country covered in ice naming itself Greenland. These analyses conveniently leave out the value of their labor.

Let's see how this works for a small set of legal U.S. citizens: my next-door neighbors. On one side is a civil engineer employed by the state of California with a wife who is a public school teacher. Total annual income and benefits probably $180,000. They have two daughters who both went to 13 years of public schools and both are presently attending public colleges: Cost of education several hundred thousand to the taxpayer (and no doubt benefits included health care of children).

On the other side of me is a retired couple. Public school teacher and county hospital adminstrator both drawing pensions, probably over $100,000/year. Their two kids both attending 13 years of public school and public universities - cost to taxpayer: hundreds of thousands. Their health care too.

Across the street: police officer and his public-school educated son. Total compensation probably $100,000/year or so.

So just 3 of my neighbor's households account for 4 or 5 hundred thousand dollars or so cost to the taxpayers each year. Certainly an amount not close to being off-set by the taxes they pay. I bet the state and property taxes they pay don't even cover the cost of their health care and education of their kids.

But what am I forgetting? THE BENEFIT OF THEIR LABOR!


And there are lots of middle class and well-to-do folks who benefit from the labor of migrants because they are directly or indirectly connected economically in wealth creating enterprises.


We need immigration reform that includes accessible worker visas. The number could flucuate for the periods of growth and periods of recessions. Many Mexicans would prefer legal circular migration, with a permanent residence in Mexico. Seasonal labor fits well for both parties in this case. Others may wish to emigrate permanently. Worker visas would allow our gov't to track their status and perhaps after a few good years qualify them for legal permanent residence.


WTF are you talking about? Are you on crack?

[yermom]

yeah, i'm not sure i follow completely either...

[SanJoaquinSooner]

WTF are you talking about? Are you on crack?

OK, here's the cliff notes:

1. Suggesting "go back to mexico and apply for legal status before you come here" shows a total lack of understanding of the supply & demand of labor and the supply and demand of visas.

2. any analysis of the "cost" of immigration that does not include the value of their labor is deeply flawed.

3. a reform of worker visa laws that varies according to the growth of the economy is needed and would be a significant improvement over the current system of black market labor.

[Harry Beanbag]

OK, here's the cliff notes:

1. Suggesting "go back to mexico and apply for legal status before you come here" shows a total lack of understanding of the supply & demand of labor and the supply and demand of visas.

But on the other hand it shows an excellent understanding of the rule of law.

2. any analysis of the "cost" of immigration that does not include the value of their labor is deeply flawed.

They make burritos at Taco Bell and cut lawns. The value of their labor is not all that high, although they do manage to depress the wages of everyone else.

.

[JohnnyMack]

OK, here's the cliff notes:

1. Suggesting "go back to mexico and apply for legal status before you come here" shows a total lack of understanding of the supply & demand of labor and the supply and demand of visas.

2. any analysis of the "cost" of immigration that does not include the value of their labor is deeply flawed.

3. a reform of worker visa laws that varies according to the growth of the economy is needed and would be a significant improvement over the current system of black market labor.

**** all that. Just shift to a fair tax (with an exemption for those families operating at or below the poverty line who are legally allowed to be here) and then let them pay their fair share. Then they can stay. Boom. Problem solved. If they work AND contribute their fair share I don't have a problem. What I do have a problem with is the cash trade that funds these illegals and the lack of taxes they pay in versus the strain on resources they create.

[Collier11]

ghey

[SanJoaquinSooner]

1. Suggesting "go back to mexico and apply for legal status before you come here" shows a total lack of understanding of the supply & demand of labor and the supply and demand of visas.

But on the other hand it shows an excellent understanding of the rule of law.

2. any analysis of the "cost" of immigration that does not include the value of their labor is deeply flawed.

They make burritos at Taco Bell and cut lawns. The value of their labor is not all that high, although they do manage to depress the wages of everyone else..


Harry, Harry, Harry,... reforming laws to make them realistic is respecting rule of law much more than keeping ones so counter to economic laws of supply and demand that they make a mockery of the law.

Harry, I guess you can also say, "hey all 50 million pot smokers can move california and register as medical marijuana users to uphold the "rule of law." If they want to smoke pot they can do it the legal way." Your suggestion is just about as ridiculous.




They make burritos at Taco Bell and cut lawns. The value of their labor is not all that high, although they do manage to depress the wages of everyone else.

Maybe Taco Bell and bermuda grass are the biggest industries in your neighborhood. Fresno county alone, here in the san joaquin valley, has an annual agricultural revenue of $5 billion.

What industry is the United States' leading "export" industry? as measured by foreign currency brought in, it's tourism. And the base of the tourism industry is hotel & restaurants - heavily dependent on migrant labor (often seasonal).

[delhalew]

OK, here's the cliff notes:

1. Suggesting "go back to mexico and apply for legal status before you come here" shows a total lack of understanding of the supply & demand of labor and the supply and demand of visas.

2. any analysis of the "cost" of immigration that does not include the value of their labor is deeply flawed.

3. a reform of worker visa laws that varies according to the growth of the economy is needed and would be a significant improvement over the current system of black market labor.

Lol. Psst....BULL****!

[delhalew]

I wish they made burritos. They repair our commercial aircraft(why do think our commercial fleets are in such bad shape). They transport our freight(that is a double illegality). They hold a lot of jobs broke *** Americans would kill for right now.

[Curly Bill]

I like Messicans just fine, I just like em to be in Mexico. :D

[delhalew]

I like Messicans just fine, I just like em to be in Mexico. :D

I myself travel to Mexico occasionally and find them to be a wonderful people. Of course, I have the decency to show my ID on the way in and do my best not to be gunned down by Federales.

[Curly Bill]

Showing your ID on the way into another country?

What a novel concept! ;)

[bonkuba]

I filled out....well about 25% of it......put mine and my wife's name in.......did not answer any of the race, etc,etc...none of their damn biz.....

Also, did not put my kids names in......put Child 1 and Child 2.......none of their biz what my kids names are......f*** 'em.

So I gave 'em a count of the household....f*** 'em. I hope they cut their damn fingers opening the envelope :D

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I myself travel to Mexico occasionally and find them to be a wonderful people. Of course, I have the decency to show my ID on the way in and do my best not to be gunned down by Federales.

Showing your ID on the way into another country?

What a novel concept!

Yes, you can show your passport and they let you in Mexico. You do not need a visa to enter.

A Mexican can't simply show his passport to be admitted to the U.S. He must also have a visa.
Even if you have a U.S. citizen sibling and have a visa petition on file for 10 years. Do you think there are 12 million people illegally present in the U.S. because they didn't bother to show their ID? the rules are different for Mexicans than they are for Canadians or U.S. citizens.

[Harry Beanbag]

Harry, Harry, Harry,... reforming laws to make them realistic is respecting rule of law much more than keeping ones so counter to economic laws of supply and demand that they make a mockery of the law.

Harry, I guess you can also say, "hey all 50 million pot smokers can move california and register as medical marijuana users to uphold the "rule of law." If they want to smoke pot they can do it the legal way." Your suggestion is just about as ridiculous.

No, your suggestions are ridiculous. People keep breaking the law so let's just puss out and change it so they won't be breaking it anymore.




Maybe Taco Bell and bermuda grass are the biggest industries in your neighborhood. Fresno county alone, here in the san joaquin valley, has an annual agricultural revenue of $5 billion.

What industry is the United States' leading "export" industry? as measured by foreign currency brought in, it's tourism. And the base of the tourism industry is hotel & restaurants - heavily dependent on migrant labor (often seasonal).

Why are they heavily dependent on them? Because they are ****ing here! They shouldn't be here at all. And save your $20 head of lettuce argument, that is fantasyland red herring bull****.

[delhalew]

Yes, you can show your passport and they let you in Mexico. You do not need a visa to enter.

A Mexican can't simply show his passport to be admitted to the U.S. He must also have a visa.
Even if you have a U.S. citizen sibling and have a visa petition on file for 10 years. Do you think there are 12 million people illegally present in the U.S. because they didn't bother to show their ID? the rules are different for Mexicans than they are for Canadians or U.S. citizens.

That's what happens when you learn that they have a tendency to not go home.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I read an article earlier that had me wondering about some of the comments in this thread and others where people say they won't be filling out the census, mainly Republicans and right wingers.

You guys DO realize that in addition to the federal money lost by not sending it in this also effects electoral votes and the number of representatives right? And the losses could be bigger than what you see when you look at it at face value once redistricting occurs.

No matter what some people are saying, if you want conservatives in office or you want red states to have their say, then you really have no choice but to just fill the thing out and send it in.

[yermom]

shhhhh

[BudSooner]

One of the reasons I am more and more supportive of the Fair Tax idea is that it would force those people who are here illegally to pay back in to the tax base a little bit more equally. Don't fool yourself into thinking that most illegals don't take cash for the work they perform, cause they do.

Totally agree



And while I'm not of the "ship every last one of them back to Messico" idea, I do think that implementing a tax system whereby Juan and his family pay the same tax rate at Wally World for their stuff as I do would make me a little bit happier. And it would possibly incentivize the illegals to work towards legal status as the fair tax would allow a tax exemption to those operating below the poverty line.
While we cannot ship them all out, damn...make the ****ers pay like the rest of us. The don't like it, then they can habanero their asses back to the third world **** hole they created to begin with.

I know this, they tie up an assload of legal resources, once caught they need to be shaken of any change to recover the costs of dealing with them thru capture/sheltering them/deporting them.

The NEW United States of America:There ain't no free lunch here....mother****ers!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Just enforce the law on businesses and the illegals wouldn't have anywhere to work.