JaMarcus Russell...

[JLEW1818]

can anybody make a case for him being the biggest 1st pick qb bust ever?


or is it too soon?

[BoulderSooner79]

can anybody make a case for him being the biggest 1st pick qb bust ever?


or is it too soon?

He's young, but I think he can achieve that goal. He got a great head-start by holding out his rookie season too.

[SoonerShay]

Dude is awful! If I were a Raider fan I would seriously want someone to crack him in the knee to make him sit on IR. He should of never been #1 pick in the first place, he was mediocre at LSU.

[KantoSooner]

Well, if was just his failure(s) as an athlete and as a quarterback, that is to say, his incompetence, he'd be a strong contender.
But he brings an extra dimension of also being kind of a ******rocket. That extra, hard to define 'something' makes him special and makes me believe that, in the fullness of time, he can ascend to the olympian heights of 'Total Fail'.

[badger]

Someone named off bad #1 overall picks here. (http://nfldraft.rivals.com/photofeature.asp?SID=1164&fid=22666) Let's consider, shall we?

Michael Vick - Sure he beat the Packers in the playoffs (argh!) and signed a lucrative contract, but his team had to dump him when he got sent off to jail by his snitching "friends" who tattled on him in exchange for a lesser sentence in a dog fighting ring! Some friends, eh?

David Carr - Is getting sacked repeatedly really an excuse for poor performance, even if it's in an expansion franchise?

Courtney Brown - Who?

Tom Cousineau - See Courtney Brown.

Aundray Bruce - See Courtney Brown and Tom Cousineau.

Kenneth Sims - Another Sims from Texas who fails, even if he spells his name differently! Wow, horns suck :D

Tim Couch - I see your JaMarcus Russell and raise you a Tim Couch. Ready to fold, or will you bluff me with...

Steve Emtman - See Courtney Brown and Aundray Bruce and Tim Whats-his-face.

Ki-Jana Carter - The reason you used to call the Bengals the Bungals... and might still for all I know.

Walt Patulski - Tear, tear for ol' Notre Lame.

[ndpruitt03]

Cleveland hard arguably the two worse back to back first picks EVER. Tim Couch and Courtney Brown. There's a good reason the Browns still suck 10 years later.

[BoulderSooner79]

Those lists annoy me because they include players that had career limiting injuries. I've seen larger, similar list of high draft choices - not just #1 overall. Emtman was good in the short time before knee blowout #1. J. Russell is working up the all time bust list on his own merit. I'll grant he plays for a crappy organization though.

[JLEW1818]

lol, so the 49ers have Alex Smith and David Carr? The 2002 and 2005 first picks.

nice

[ndpruitt03]

First Pick QBs since 1990

90 Jeff George
93 Drew Bledsoe
98 Peyton Manning
99 Tim Couch
01 Mike Vick
02 David Carr
03 Carson Palmer
04 Eli Manning
05 Alex Smith
07 Jamarcus Russell
09 Matt Stafford

[badger]

Those lists annoy me because they include players that had career limiting injuries. I've seen larger, similar list of high draft choices - not just #1 overall. Emtman was good in the short time before knee blowout #1. J. Russell is working up the all time bust list on his own merit. I'll grant he plays for a crappy organization though.

I don't think that makes the team feel any better about their draft choices. Front offices will get cleared regardless of whether a player isn't living up to his big contract because of injuries, or because of jail time. Bottom line is winning and butts in the seats.

In college, fans and university board of regents can be more understanding when a season gets hampered by injuries (like our past season, for example). In the NFL, there's none of that.

Harsh, yes. But it's a business, not a feelings factory :(

[unbiasedtruth]

ryan leaf.... i think he is in jail, out on bond, or something for prescription fraud, theft of narcotics when he was a coach last year at an Texas A&M affiliated school out in west Texas someplace...

[JLEW1818]

First Pick QBs since 1990

90 Jeff George
93 Drew Bledsoe
98 Peyton Manning
99 Tim Couch
01 Mike Vick
02 David Carr
03 Carson Palmer
04 Eli Manning
05 Alex Smith
07 Jamarcus Russell
09 Matt Stafford

now lets figure the other first picks out.

1991, Dallas Cowboys, Russell Maryland. one pro-bowl, long career

1992, Indianapolis Colts, Steve Emtman, great college career. many nfl injuries

1994, Cincinnati Bengals Dan Wilkinson, long nfl career

1995, Cincinnati Bengals Ki-Jana Carter, bust.. In 2007, Yahoo! Sports named him the worst number-one pick since the AFL-NFL merger.

1996, New York Jets Keyshawn Johnson... not a bust, but never Elite

1997, St. Louis Rams (from New York Jets) Orlando Pace. Great pick.

2000, Cleveland Browns ,Courtney Brown.......

2006, Houston Texans, Mario Williams. Better than Bush and Young and Cutler in my opinion.

[BoulderSooner79]

I don't think that makes the team feel any better about their draft choices. Front offices will get cleared regardless of whether a player isn't living up to his big contract because of injuries, or because of jail time. Bottom line is winning and butts in the seats.

In college, fans and university board of regents can be more understanding when a season gets hampered by injuries (like our past season, for example). In the NFL, there's none of that.

Harsh, yes. But it's a business, not a feelings factory :(

I know; the NFL is bottom-line city. Every draft pick is a risk/reward assessment. The thing that is annoys me is the "bust" connotation of either skills falling short or even character failings. I think this thread carries that implication. But even in the NFL there is a difference as it's recognized that players will get hurt enough to become ineffective and sometimes it comes very early in their careers. But personnel directors are held accountable for over-estimating a player's skill or underestimating his baggage.

[soonerfan28]

I guess Leaf lucked out b/c he was just #2 overall.

[prrriiide]

can anybody make a case for him being the biggest 1st pick qb bust ever?


or is it too soon?

Too soon?

How many more years you gonna give the dipsh!t? If Big Al had any sense left rattling around in his head, he'd cut him now and be done with it.

[JLEW1818]

lol, so give me your case.

Why is Carr, Couch, Leaf not bigger busts?

[badger]

Too soon?

How many more years you gonna give the dipsh!t? If Big Al had any sense left rattling around in his head, he'd cut him now and be done with it.

Al is either too prideful, too senile or too insane to cut him.

Too prideful: Just like his wtf pick last year, I am convinced that he made that choice because he was determined to prove doubters wrong and prove himself to be a football-smart man by making the unpredictable pick this year. He wanted to find the diamond in the rough. He wanted to be the one to find Tom Brady, an undrafted QB who went on to lead his team to Super Bowls... that type of player. Instead, we're all laughing :D

Too senile: NP says all of the time that he looks like a homeless guy whom they let wander the sidelines.

Too insane: People have suspected for years, even before the old geezer was an old geezer that he wasn't exactly all there.

I would give "all of the above," but someone has to be sane in order to be prideful, right?

[BoulderSooner79]

It's hard to argue with Leaf. If Russell doesn't get turned around, he will probably be the most expensive as the contract balloon every year.

[soonerfan28]

We gotta wait til they move Russell to left tackle. Isn't he like a biscuit away from 350?

[NormanPride]

Russel easily has 50# on them...

[badger]

The thing that is annoys me is the "bust" connotation of either skills falling short or even character failings.

All right then, from here on out guys, we are not labeling the player as a bust, but rather, the PICK.

The PICK is a bust, the PLAYER is injured, a doofus, or druggie, or a head case.

Please label your commentary accordingly from now on. :)

[silverwheels]

Russell shouldn't count because he was drafted by the Raiders. I would think that most other teams would have been smarter with that #1 pick if they had had it.

[badger]

Russell shouldn't count because he was drafted by the Raiders. I would think that most other teams would have been smarter with that #1 pick if they had had it.

let's see who the other teams took...

Lions - Calvin Johnson
Browns - Joe Thomas (and Brady Quinn later, lol)
Tampa - Gaines Adams
Zona - Levi Brown
Skins - LaRon Landry
Vikings - ALL DAY!!!!!

The Lions were after a QB, so they would have taken JaMarcus if given the chance, methinks. The Browns have a three-time Pro Bowler in Joe Thomas, but QB is the more desired position for the NFL franchises and indeed they took a loser domer posing as a quarterback later on in the first round. I'm bypassing Tampa out of respect. Zona had two QB's already, so my guess is they're fine with Levi Brown regardless. I also think that given the chance, Washington and Minnesota would stick with their picks of LaRon and ALL DAY.

[JLEW1818]

yep i brought this up last year. all those teams passing on AD. lol

[PrideTrombone]

We gotta wait til they move Russell to left tackle. Isn't he like a biscuit away from 350?

Yeah, he 'bout tree fiddy!
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9cn7xfBpZ3M/0.jpg

[Salt City Sooner]

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BakeTe00.htm

Dude won the '62 Heisman too.

[Scott D]

As a long time Raider fan this is a painful subject for me.

Simply put Al didn't do his homework before the pick. Physically Russell has the right tools to be very very good at his position. What he lacks is the focus and work ethic to match his physical ability.

Also as for that list, Ki-Jana Carter suffered a very serious knee injury in the pre-season as a rookie, and he never fully recovered from that. I'd put him with Emtman on the list of 'not bust due to injury' over calling him a bust.

[boomersooner28]

IMO, if you go to the Raiders at #1, you can't ever be considered a bust. The organization is a bust and you have no chance. :D

[bluedogok]

I think it is hard to call Vick a bust as a #1 pick, he did have a fairly high level of success on the field unlike most of the others listed. Most of them did absolutely nothing to warrant them being drafted on the first day, let alone as the #1 pick.

Vick was just stupid, but he was stupid later unlike Leaf who was/is stupidity personified.

[sooneron]

Carr hasn't been very good, but during his first few years at Houston, he had NOTHING but A Johnson. He had **** for a line, too. I think he's a slightly better than average qb that is now just damaged goods.

[ndpruitt03]

The thing about Russell is I don't remember him ever being that good in college. He had maybe one decent year, but I think LSU's QBs since him have been at least as good if not better.

[VA Sooner]

Jamarcus sucks as a QB. He doesn't go through his progressions fast enough, makes horrible decisions, and can't get the ball to the right place even with his receivers wide open.

[silverwheels]

The thing about Russell is I don't remember him ever being that good in college. He had maybe one decent year, but I think LSU's QBs since him have been at least as good if not better.

He had a decent year, but his stock really rose after LSU slaughtered Notre Dame in the Sugar Bowl, like no other QB could have done that to the Irish in a bowl game.

[agoo758]

Jamarcus sucks as a QB. He doesn't go through his progressions fast enough, makes horrible decisions, and can't get the ball to the right place even with his receivers wide open.

Kind of reminds me of a christ-like figure in gainesville....:rolleyes:

[badger]

Jamarcus Russell's NFL career is almost like USC's Mike Williams, except Williams tried to go pro after his sophomore year (the Slow Mo thing), unsuccessfully, so he sat out of football for an entire season... and then the Lions (another fail-bot franchise, haha) drafted him.

Mike Williams began to balloon from speedy WR size to tight-end-that-can't-catch-or-block size, much like Jamarcus has gone from Next-Vince-Young-speedy-two-option-QB size, to So-slow-and-fat-he-might-as-well-be-a-practice-squad-lineman size.

I'd feel sorry for them, but it's hard to feel sorry for someone getting paid millions to play a sport that I was never good at myself.

[Soonerwake]

Jamarcus sucks as a QB. He doesn't go through his progressions fast enough, makes horrible decisions, and can't get the ball to the right place even with his receivers wide open.

I remember watching a pre-season game this year and hearing the announcers discuss how the coaches needed to split the field in half for him so that he was only responsible for seeing half the field like they do for some rookies.

Problem is, he is not a rookie. He has been an NFL QB for 2 full seasons in addition to playing QB for a Div 1 college team.

At what point do the coaches finally make the decision that he is not mentally capable of playing QB in the NFL??

[Scott D]

I remember watching a pre-season game this year and hearing the announcers discuss how the coaches needed to split the field in half for him so that he was only responsible for seeing half the field like they do for some rookies.

Problem is, he is not a rookie. He has been an NFL QB for 2 full seasons in addition to playing QB for a Div 1 college team.

At what point do the coaches finally make the decision that he is not mentally capable of playing QB in the NFL??

Technically considering, yes at that point developmentally as a pro qb he was in fact, no more than a rookie.

As for coaches making the decision? Tom Cable made that decision last season, and quite frankly I'm surprised the guy kept his job after benching Russell.

[SoonerDood]

as somebody on this board previously pointed out, Akili Smith is a much bigger draft bust than Ryan Leaf.

[Soonerwake]

Technically considering, yes at that point developmentally as a pro qb he was in fact, no more than a rookie.

As for coaches making the decision? Tom Cable made that decision last season, and quite frankly I'm surprised the guy kept his job after benching Russell.

I suppose that's my point. Oakland drafted a guy who was not even close to being where he needed to be developmentally #1. They drafted a QB who is still, after 3 years, not where he needs to be developmentally. I would guess that Indy coaches didn't split the field for Peyton Manning, or the Denver coaches for John Elway. If a guy is going to take some time to mature, to develop, say 3 or more years, then he is not a #1 guy, IMO. In fact, I would hesitate drafting him in the 1st round altogether.

And, it's not just his need for development, its the fact that he doesn't seem to be developing at all.

Of course, I would be excited if an earthquake opened up and swallowed Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum, so I may not be a good one to discuss anything Raider anyway..

[Scott D]

Well, when he was drafted, he wasn't really supposed to be thrown in as quickly as he was. The problem mainly was that well, Daunte Culpepper sucks, so at the time they had no choice. The fact that Russell's agent overly assisted in making sure that Russell's development was retarded beyond the motivational aspect of things.

Fact is, the guy can throw a football a long way, sure as hell isn't accurate but he does have a strong arm. His problem is that he hasn't gotten better accuracywise and he has little to no touch on his passes.

Of course the fact that Darrius Heyward-Bey couldn't catch a cold doesn't help. That was a bigger waste of a first round pick than Russell.

[silverwheels]

Basically every Raider fan is just waiting for Al Davis to die so that they might have decent leadership.

[Scott D]

Don't know the point in that, most of us already know who the heir apparent is...and she is ruthless.

[silverwheels]

But is she senile and crazy like Davis? Although he apparently was right about Lane Kiffin. :D

[Scott D]

Senile? not in the least.....let's just say that Goodell better watch his back when she takes over.

[GKeeper316]

jamarcus russell just get fatter and fatter and fatter every single day. he cant throw, has lost a ton of that mobility he had at lsu, and (from all accounts) has a **** poor work ethic.

i dont know if hes the biggest bust at qb ever, but hes damn sure not worth what al davis spent on him.

[JLEW1818]

take a look at the stats for the Raiders last 3 first picks.

LOL

[goingoneight]

Russell got a million for every two yards he could throw a deep ball. A cannon of an arm means nothing if you know nothing about how to read defense, check down, footwork, etc.

LSU QBs are painful enough to watch in college... how in the hell did one make it to the top pick in the draft?

[badger]

Russell got a million for every two yards he could throw a deep ball. A cannon of an arm means nothing if you know nothing about how to read defense, check down, footwork, etc

Unless you have Randy Moss down field :rolleyes:

:mad: enraged packer fans for years, but kept one Daunte Culpepper employed. Moss and Cris Carter did, I mean.