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OklahomaTuba
3/16/2010, 12:39 PM
Obowma strikes again.

The many nations helping Haiti recover from the devastating earthquake that struck there have set up their own military compounds and fly their flags at the entrances.

France’s tricolor, Britain’s Union Jack and even Croatia’s coat of arms flap in the breeze.

But the country whose contributions dwarf the rest of the world’s — the United States — has no flag at its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport.

The lack of the Stars and Stripes does not sit well with some veterans and servicemembers who say the U.S. government should be proud to fly the flag in Haiti, given the amount of money and manpower the U.S. is donating to help the country recover from the Jan. 12 quake.

The Obama administration says flying the flag could give Haiti the wrong idea.

“We are not here as an occupation force, but as an international partner committed to supporting the government of Haiti on the road to recovery,” the U.S. government’s Haiti Joint Information Center said in response to a query about the flag.http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/03/gns_haiti_flag_031510/

Okla-homey
3/16/2010, 07:10 PM
yet another alarming failure of judgment by these people.

Have they stopped to consider "nice" stuff done under the US flag is what convinces others the US is "nice."

Anyway, it's all a collosal waste of time anyway. When international attention on Haiti burns-out, as it surely will, the money and material invested there won't have made any long term difference. It will still be a crap-hole.

Chuck Bao
3/16/2010, 07:40 PM
No alarming failure that I see. Did you read the complete article?


Flap flies in Haiti over U.S. flag absence

By Alan Gomez and Oren Dorell - USA Today
Posted : Monday Mar 15, 2010 15:35:11 EDT

The many nations helping Haiti recover from the devastating earthquake that struck there have set up their own military compounds and fly their flags at the entrances.

France's tricolor, Britain's Union Jack and even Croatia's coat of arms flap in the breeze.

But the country whose contributions dwarf the rest of the world's — the United States — has no flag at its main installation near the Port-au-Prince airport.

The lack of the Stars and Stripes does not sit well with some veterans and servicemembers who say the U.S. government should be proud to fly the flag in Haiti, given the amount of money and manpower the U.S. is donating to help the country recover from the Jan. 12 quake.

The Obama administration says flying the flag could give Haiti the wrong idea.

"We are not here as an occupation force, but as an international partner committed to supporting the government of Haiti on the road to recovery," the U.S. government's Haiti Joint Information Center said in response to a query about the flag.

The absence of the American flag bothers former Navy man Arthur Herriford, national president of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association.

"It's very improper," Herriford said. "Our military people always engage and function under the American colors — always have and always will."

The U.S. flag has flown in Haiti under circumstances that were not always friendly.

In 1915, Marines invaded Haiti to restore stability after several coups. In 1986, President Ronald Reagan pressured dictator Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier to renounce his rule and leave. In 1994, President Bill Clinton sent troops to prop up President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. In 2004, President George W. Bush's administration eased Aristide out of office amid a brutal civil war.

France, the former colonizer of the country, has its flag up at its base in Port-au-Prince. The Haiti flag is based on the French flag, turned on its side with the white stripped out.

Army Col. Billy Buckner, spokesman for Joint Task Force-Haiti, a group representing various Obama administration agency heads, said the decision not to fly the American flag was made out of respect as guests of the government of Haiti.

"It is no mystery that U.S. forces are on the ground, and we proudly wear an American flag on our right sleeve," he said.

U.S. Air Force air operations specialists and FAA air-traffic controllers manage air traffic at Haiti's main airport, where millions of dollars in aid from the United States has been arriving for weeks. More than 12,000 U.S. military personnel support relief operations.

"Our commanders are smart and intuitively understand their mission here in Haiti, and clearly the sensitivities that come with supporting the mission," Buckner said.A U.S. flag went up at a temporary consular station set up in the first few days on the airport tarmac, according to Charles Luoma-Overstreet, a State Department spokesman in Haiti.

"Apparently, the prime minister (Jean-Max Bellerive) saw this" and thought it appeared as if the United States were taking over the airport, Luoma-Overstreet said.

He said Bellerive said something to U.S. Ambassador Kenneth Merten, who agreed that flying the flag wasn't a good idea and told the consular officials to take it down.

The decision is not unprecedented, noted Joe Davis, spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, who says he is not bothered by the flag's absence.

During the Gulf War in 1991, U.S. forces took control of the main airport in Kuwait and briefly flew the American flag over their installation, Davis said, but higher-ups ordered it taken down to avoid an impression that U.S. forces were conquerors.

The missing American colors at Port-au-Prince airport were no problem to Don Hollenbaugh, a former Army Delta Force operator who received the Distinguished Service Cross for actions in Fallujah, Iraq, in 2004.

"Everybody in the world knows the U.S. is there," Hollenbaugh said. "So by not flying the flag, we're not changing anyone's mind about anything."

StoopTroup
3/16/2010, 08:08 PM
Just another thing for the media to report on instead of the 39% increase in Health Insurance premiums to foster the 12 billion in profits for the Insurance Companies. Yep...profits. Profits that come from hugely inflated salaries and bonuses to boot.

Not even a story about someone's kid who needs to have all his limbs removed due to a meningitis outbreak and how the Family will struggle with future illnesses and payments for treatment.

Oh well...guess we better continue to focus on who's feelings got hurt for something.

Oh and Happy St. Patricks Day tomorrow.

Carpe Diem!

Okla-homey
3/16/2010, 09:20 PM
Just another thing for the media to report on instead of the 39% increase in Health Insurance premiums to foster the 12 billion in profits for the Insurance Companies. Yep...profits. Profits that come from hugely inflated salaries and bonuses to boot.

Not even a story about someone's kid who needs to have all his limbs removed due to a meningitis outbreak and how the Family will struggle with future illnesses and payments for treatment.

Oh well...guess we better continue to focus on who's feelings got hurt for something.

Oh and Happy St. Patricks Day tomorrow.

Carpe Diem!

May I remind you that your AA pension plan is very probably invested heavily in these same insurance companies, which are in business to make money for their shareholders? Or maybe you're willing to accept less when you retire?

As to the 39% increase in premiums you cite, where did you get that number? Over what period? For Oklahoma insureds? Really? 39%?

As to the sad story from Oolagah, if that child's parents are too poor to buy health insurance for the little guy, they have Soonercare. If they aren't too poor to buy health insurance, then what else are were they spending their money on?

sooner59
3/16/2010, 09:37 PM
May I remind you that your AA pension plan is very probably invested heavily in these same insurance companies, which are in business to make money for their shareholders? Or maybe you're willing to accept less when you retire?

As to the 39% increase in premiums you cite, where did you get that number? Over what period? For Oklahoma insureds? Really? 39%?

As to the sad story from Oolagah, if that child's parents are too poor to buy health insurance for the little guy, they have Soonercare. If they aren't too poor to buy health insurance, then what else are were they spending their money on?

That is a valid question. I wonder that as well.

Leroy Lizard
3/16/2010, 09:39 PM
The Obama administration says flying the flag could give Haiti the wrong idea.

"We are not here as an occupation force, but as an international partner committed to supporting the government of Haiti on the road to recovery," the U.S. government's Haiti Joint Information Center said in response to a query about the flag.

The absence of the American flag bothers former Navy man Arthur Herriford, national president of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association.

"It's very improper," Herriford said. "Our military people always engage and function under the American colors — always have and always will."

Well, they used to. :D

sooner59
3/16/2010, 09:52 PM
If I were the one making the decision, I would tell them to **** off or we are packing our **** and leaving....and taking our money with us. If you can't be thankful for the money and manpower support we are giving, and you would rather bitch about "our" flag at "our" camp......then good luck.

OULenexaman
3/16/2010, 10:00 PM
If I were the one making the decision, I would tell them to **** off or we are packing our **** and leaving....and taking our money with us. If you can't be thankful for the money and manpower support we are giving, and you would rather bitch about "our" flag at "our" camp......then good luck.

and good riddence...bye bye..

Tulsa_Fireman
3/16/2010, 11:30 PM
And the home of the brave.

F*ck 'em. Fly the colors.

Leroy Lizard
3/17/2010, 11:23 AM
It's Jimmy Carter all over again.

OklahomaTuba
3/17/2010, 02:27 PM
You know, maybe our military just doesn't WANT to be associated with the current government??

LosAngelesSooner
3/17/2010, 02:36 PM
You know, maybe our military just doesn't WANT to be associated with the current government??Just when I think you can't sink any lower...:rolleyes:

Jello Biafra
3/17/2010, 02:44 PM
dear jean-max,

fix yer own shiite.

sincerely,

the U.S.A.

OklahomaTuba
3/17/2010, 03:26 PM
Just when I think you can't sink any lower...:rolleyes:Well at least I wouldn't call them terrorists, like you were fond of doing back in the day.

Leroy Lizard
3/17/2010, 07:01 PM
You know, maybe our military just doesn't WANT to be associated with the current government??

A new design is in the works.

http://chismetime.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/raising_gay_flag-1.jpg

Curly Bill
3/17/2010, 08:13 PM
Just another thing for the media to report on instead of the 39% increase in Health Insurance premiums to foster the 12 billion in profits for the Insurance Companies. Yep...profits. Profits that come from hugely inflated salaries and bonuses to boot.

Not even a story about someone's kid who needs to have all his limbs removed due to a meningitis outbreak and how the Family will struggle with future illnesses and payments for treatment.

Oh well...guess we better continue to focus on who's feelings got hurt for something.

Oh and Happy St. Patricks Day tomorrow.

Carpe Diem!

So...if we give all those folks inflated salaries and bonuses we'll get more profits? In your lefty rant is that really what you intended to say?

JLEW1818
3/17/2010, 08:19 PM
Barack Hussein Obama


can yall take it seriously still? i still cant

Leroy Lizard
3/17/2010, 08:43 PM
I take him less seriously as a leader every day, but more seriously as a threat to our freedoms.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/17/2010, 08:44 PM
I take him less seriously as a leader every day, but more seriously as a threat to our freedoms.What gave you the clue?

SoonerInKCMO
3/17/2010, 08:53 PM
As to the 39% increase in premiums you cite, where did you get that number? Over what period? For Oklahoma insureds? Really? 39%?

There's an article in today's Oklahoman that refers to a study by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation which found Oklahomans' premiums for family coverage increased 40% from 2000 to 2008. That's slightly less than the national average of 43% for the same period.

SoonerInKCMO
3/17/2010, 08:59 PM
May I remind you that your AA pension plan is very probably invested heavily in these same insurance companies, which are in business to make money for their shareholders? Or maybe you're willing to accept less when you retire?

I can't speak for ST; but, I can say that many people are willing to make next quarter's profit numbers a secondary concern when choosing where to invest. From 1995 to 2007, money invested in socially responsible investments grew by 324% (http://www.socialinvest.org/pdf/SRI_Trends_ExecSummary_2007.pdf) - 20% more than professionally managed investments grew overall during the same time.

SoonerInKCMO
3/17/2010, 09:01 PM
There's an article in today's Oklahoman that refers to a study by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation which found Oklahomans' premiums for family coverage increased 40% from 2000 to 2008. That's slightly less than the national average of 43% for the same period.

That 40% growth is about 1/3 more than inflation in general. (http://www.inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/CurrentInflation.asp)

Bourbon St Sooner
3/18/2010, 11:26 AM
There's an article in today's Oklahoman that refers to a study by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation which found Oklahomans' premiums for family coverage increased 40% from 2000 to 2008. That's slightly less than the national average of 43% for the same period.

Yes, and we know what's driving that is inflated insurance executive pay and profits. :rolleyes: Is this in the daily talking points you receive from Nancy Pelosi?

Harry Beanbag
3/18/2010, 12:28 PM
Yes, and we know what's driving that is inflated insurance executive pay and profits. :rolleyes: Is this in the daily talking points you receive from Nancy Pelosi?


I just read the other day, and posted it on this board, that health insurance companies operate at around a 3.4% profit margin, hardly excessive and actually rather modest.

Harry Beanbag
3/18/2010, 12:29 PM
There's an article in today's Oklahoman that refers to a study by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation which found Oklahomans' premiums for family coverage increased 40% from 2000 to 2008. That's slightly less than the national average of 43% for the same period.

Wait 'til you see what happens to the premiums in the world of Obamacare.

GKeeper316
3/18/2010, 01:35 PM
Wait 'til you see what happens to the premiums in the world of Obamacare.

which is what, exactly, swammi?

Harry Beanbag
3/18/2010, 01:47 PM
http://www.heritageflight.org/images/Aircraft%20Photos/Apollo_8_Launch_1.jpg

Flagstaffsooner
3/18/2010, 01:58 PM
Hell, I'm suprised the Stars and Stripes still flies in DC with Hussien Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelnasty***** in charge.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/18/2010, 02:00 PM
The left is right.
The right is wrong.
Shut your eyes
And your ears,
Then dammit pass that bong.

OklahomaTuba
3/18/2010, 02:29 PM
Wait 'til you see what happens to the premiums in the world of Obamacare.Not to mention that taxes also will go up, and we will pay those taxes for years before we see Obamacare.

So taxes go up, premiums go up, and the level of care goes down thanks to forcing 40+ million more people into the system.

Oh, and if you don't pay an insurance company some of your $$$, than one of the 12,000+ new IRS agents Obamacare will employ will come knock on your door.

Sounds like a winner to me!!

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/18/2010, 02:33 PM
Not to mention that taxes also will go up, and we will pay those taxes for years before we see Obamacare.

So taxes go up, premiums go up, and the level of care goes down thanks to forcing 40+ million more people into the system.

Oh, and if you don't pay an insurance company some of your $$$, than one of the 12,000+ new IRS agents Obamacare will employ will come knock on your door.

Sounds like a winner to me!!Is the above scenario a brilliant new economic stimulus plan?

OklahomaTuba
3/18/2010, 02:35 PM
Is the above scenario a brilliant new economic stimulus plan?Well, I suspect it will have about the same affect that the "stimulus" plan had, which was ziltch, unless you include bankrupting the country as an extra side benefit.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/18/2010, 02:42 PM
Well, I suspect it will have about the same affect that the "stimulus" plan had, which was ziltch, unless you include bankrupting the country as an extra side benefit.Looks like the "sledge hammer effect" on economic growth.

badger
3/18/2010, 02:44 PM
There's a certain little angry side to us all, that has to be angry at someone when seeing peers get laid off, seeing jobs get sent overseas, seeing our infrastructure crumble, seeing our education and public safety budgets cut, while bailouts for big companies are approved.

And because the president is supposed to be the leader of our country, it is quite logical that our little angry sides want to lay blame with the president, much like fans like to lay blame with coaches after big losses, even though coaches do not fumble the ball, throw interceptions or miss game-winning free throws.

I know that the president isn't part of the Congress that is seemingly wasting time on health care legislation that has no prayer of passing during this election year, but somehow, someway I still think Obama has to be held responsible because he's the leader of our government and all.

Am I being fair, or am I just being a Texas A&M fan that wants to fire :rcmad: because he can't beat Texas?

GKeeper316
3/18/2010, 03:36 PM
So taxes go up, premiums go up, and the level of care goes down thanks to forcing 40+ million more people into the system.



forcing into the system?

are you ****ing serious???

Tulsa_Fireman
3/18/2010, 03:45 PM
Yes.

Since when is health care a "right"?

GKeeper316
3/18/2010, 03:48 PM
Yes.

Since when is health care a "right"?

how very christian of you

OklahomaTuba
3/18/2010, 03:48 PM
forcing into the system?

are you ****ing serious???

What else would you call something that makes it illegal to NOT participate in???

If you don't want to buy something, it shouldn't be illegal to NOT buy it.

GKeeper316
3/18/2010, 03:56 PM
it isnt forcing anyone into anything... its allowing accessablity where before there was none for some people.

and what everyone fails to understand or even accept is that it will save us trillions in the long run by getting preventative care to those who currently have none.

as it stands now, people with no health care cost taxpayers far more than this proposed legislation would cost... its plain and simple a great thing for our country, and will make us all healthier people. but it wouldnt matter if it lined everyone's pockets with gold and made us all live to be 300 years old, if its a democrats idea, and it involves "gubmint" it must be bad.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
3/18/2010, 04:10 PM
heh

Curly Bill
3/18/2010, 04:54 PM
it isnt forcing anyone into anything... its allowing accessablity where before there was none for some people.

and what everyone fails to understand or even accept is that it will save us trillions in the long run by getting preventative care to those who currently have none.

as it stands now, people with no health care cost taxpayers far more than this proposed legislation would cost... its plain and simple a great thing for our country, and will make us all healthier people. but it wouldnt matter if it lined everyone's pockets with gold and made us all live to be 300 years old, if its a democrats idea, and it involves "gubmint" it must be bad.

LOL...

Govt. takeover of health care will save us trillions...

You really were born yesterday huh genius? :O

SoonerInKCMO
3/18/2010, 07:08 PM
Yes, and we know what's driving that is inflated insurance executive pay and profits. :rolleyes: Is this in the daily talking points you receive from Nancy Pelosi?

No, that wasn't from anyone's daily talking points. Homey asked a question and I gave a factual answer; why you're reading more into it than that, I don't know.

StoopTroup
3/18/2010, 07:27 PM
May I remind you that your AA pension plan is very probably invested heavily in these same insurance companies, which are in business to make money for their shareholders? Or maybe you're willing to accept less when you retire?

As to the 39% increase in premiums you cite, where did you get that number? Over what period? For Oklahoma insureds? Really? 39%?

As to the sad story from Oolagah, if that child's parents are too poor to buy health insurance for the little guy, they have Soonercare. If they aren't too poor to buy health insurance, then what else are were they spending their money on?

Homey...

The numbers I quoted were from something I saw on Fox News. I threw them out as Fox has to be right on the money....lol

The folks with the kid...they have health insurance yeah. 80-20 with copays etc. Yeah there's a yearly ceiling on it. The folks are working people and on fixed incomes. 20% is a lifestyle change for them and nothing seems to get cheaper these days. If both Parents work and have two cars...one of them might have to quit working in order to be a caregiver for him. It's pretty difficult to place a kid like that so you can work.

Again...hopefully they'll work it out.

I guess I'm willing to work until I die if hard working folks like that get Health-care and I have to lose a pension that CEO's and Politicians seem to drool over every time they see the spreadsheets on them. Those guys want to steal every penny of that and do something they think will make the World a better place. If I thought they were genuine in doing it...I'd hate to see it go...but I'd figure a way to survive. Many others who have worked 20-30 years right now might not think so...but I'd be willing to give that up if say we cut all retirement benefits for Government and Military Employees too. Then we could get back to building our infra-structure in this Country and folks wouldn't need to worry whether or not they worked themselves to death. Once they were burned out or physically worthless they would be taken care of based on how much and how long they worked.

Communist enough for ya....lol

I was reading about folks who ask simple questions this morning and ran across this bit about The Archbishop of Recife, Brazil, Dom Helder Camara (who died in 1999). He once said: "When I feed the poor, they call me a Saint. But, when I ask why there are poor, they call me a Communist."

It takes a lot of courage these days to ask simple questions and folks seem to have long drawn out reasons when answering them.

Wouldn't it be cool if we just figured out a way to give Healthcare to the poor? The U.S. continues to protect the big guy but leaves the poor and Middle Class as the ones that always go without the basics. Food, Shelter, Medical Treatment. It's always quick to throw money at some Airline that needs a new airport or some Bank that mismanaged their Company or fixing a Country they needlessly blew up. Right now there are Blackwater guys running for the hills to save their sorry greedy asses. It started out about Patriotism and ended up about money.

What would any of us give up to help a child?

The answer to that is "Not very much." these days it seems.

StoopTroup
3/18/2010, 07:32 PM
So...if we give all those folks inflated salaries and bonuses we'll get more profits? In your lefty rant is that really what you intended to say?


You know that I'm not wired like that and you continue to badger me with it.

The left and the right are both whacked out of their skulls.

That's insulting.

Curly Bill
3/18/2010, 07:43 PM
You know that I'm not wired like that and you continue to badger me with it.

The left and the right are both whacked out of their skulls.

That's insulting.


:D

I won't disagree that both are whacked.

I still feel someone (I won't name names;) ;) ) has been leaning pretty strongly to the left here lately though.

StoopTroup
3/18/2010, 08:00 PM
You are probably confusing Rational Thinkers for having an idea stolen from them by lefties. They misuse ideas just the same as the rights.

GKeeper316
3/19/2010, 03:35 PM
LOL...

Govt. takeover of health care will save us trillions...

You really were born yesterday huh genius? :O

according to the office of budget and management, it will.

dont let facts get in the way of your distrust of "big gubmint"

olevetonahill
3/19/2010, 03:45 PM
according to the office of budget and management, a part of the Big Gubment it will.

dont let facts get in the way of your distrust of "big gubmint"

Gee quotin facts from the same source yer defendin :rolleyes:


As far as Flying the Flag down there who really gives a **** ? are we there to thump our chests ? or to simply help those poor mother****ers out ?:confused:

SoonerInKCMO
3/19/2010, 05:18 PM
As far as Flying the Flag down there who really gives a **** ? are we there to thump our chests ? or to simply help those poor mother****ers out ?:confused:

^^^ This.

Curly Bill
3/19/2010, 07:27 PM
according to the office of budget and management, it will.

dont let facts get in the way of your distrust of "big gubmint"

"Facts" from the office of budget and management...

...LOL :D :rolleyes:

Stitch Face
3/19/2010, 07:34 PM
it will save us trillions in the long run by getting preventative care to those who currently have none.

Except...that's never been shown to be the case. Preventive medicine and universal screenings have never been proven to decrease end-of-life costs or total payout for care.

The cost of doing a screening colonoscopy ever three to ten years on every age-appropriate adult in America is, unfortunately, more than the overall cost of treating colon cancer. We should, of course, try to screen every person who warrants it. But that doesn't mean it will reap these savings that people imagine without any evidence to back them up. It sounds good when politicians say it, and we wish it were true, but it's never been demonstrated.

You mentioned the CBO. You might find this article interesting.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/congressional-budget-expert-says-preventive-care-will-raise-not-cut-costs.html

Leroy Lizard
3/19/2010, 08:09 PM
And preventive medicine isn't going to stop smoking, drug use, or unhealthy food.

Even if it works and people live another ten years, that's just another ten years for them to draw social security and visit the doctor.