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Crucifax Autumn
3/11/2010, 07:04 AM
From Space.com

Equations predict the way that mass pulls on other mass in the universe


Score one more for Einstein. A new study has confirmed his theory of general relativity works on extremely large scales.

The study was one of the first rigorous tests of this theory of gravity beyond our solar system. The research found that even over vast scales of galaxies and clusters of galaxies, the equations of general relativity predict the way that mass pulls on other mass in the universe.

The new work also helps rule out a competing theory of gravity that seeks to do away with the need for bizarre concepts like dark matter and dark energy that have irked some scientists. This research indicates those pesky ideas may be here to stay.

What is relativity?

General relativity rocked the world of physics when Einstein first published his paper on the subject in 1915. The theory built on the traditional idea of gravity based on Isaac Newton's laws, but added fundamentally new concepts like the notion that mass deforms the shape of space-time. This means that objects and even light that move through space near a large mass will travel on a curved path. Furthermore, it means that mass can stretch or shrink time as well. For example, someone watching a black hole from a distance would observe a person falling into that black hole to fall extremely slowly.

To test this theory over distances up to 3.5 billion light-years from Earth, researchers analyzed a survey of about 70,000 galaxies. The scientists combined three different measurements. First, they calculated the weak gravitational lensing caused by the galaxies — that is, they measured how much the galaxies' mass was bending light from other galaxies around them by noting the average distortion of the surrounding galaxies' shapes.

Then, they combined this data with measurements of the galaxies' velocities to learn how the galaxies were moving toward and away from one another. Finally, the astrophysicists calculated how clustered the galaxies were together over various distances. All of these measurements combined created a system to test theories of gravity independent of particular parameters in the theories.

The scientists found that general relativity is consistent with their observations of the universe at large scales. They also tested two competing theories — the tensor-vector-scalar gravity (TeVeS) idea, and another called f(R) (pronounced "f of r").

The quantities predicted by f(R) were somewhat different from those observed, but still fell within the margin of error of the measurements, so this theory is still a possibility. TeVeS, however, made predictions that fell outside the observational error limits, so scientists think they can probably eliminate this theory from consideration.

"It wasn't clear at the outset that our errors would be small enough to be able to rule out other models — it was a nice surprise," said study leader Reinabelle Reyes, a graduate student at Princeton University in Princeton, N.J.

TeVeS was already looking doubtful based on recent observations of a pair of colliding galaxy clusters called the bullet cluster, which offered strong evidence for the existence of dark matter, Reyes said. The new research offers another nail in its coffin.

Solid support

While general relativity was already pretty well accepted among physicists, the new findings offer more solid support for the theory.

"It's good to know that general relativity is consistent," Reyes told SPACE.com. "Now we have something to hold on to saying the universe really works that way."

The study was detailed in the March 11 issue of the journal Nature.

To further judge between Einstein's theory and other ideas, including f(R), research on more galaxies will be necessary to reduce the margins of error on the data.

"Reyes and colleagues' measurements are significant not just because they are consistent within error with general relativity, but also because they point the way to future high-precision tests that will better distinguish between general relativity and some variant models," physicist J. Anthony Tyson of the University of California, Davis, wrote in an accompanying essay in the same issue of Nature. Tyson was not involved in the study.

soonerinabilene
3/11/2010, 08:54 AM
well that sounds simple enough

swardboy
3/11/2010, 09:14 AM
Einstein rules!

jkjsooner
3/11/2010, 09:44 AM
Cool. I have somewhat of a grasp on special relativitity but I know nothing about general relativity. I don't understand the "problem" with the Newtonian idea of gravity.

The demonstration (putting a heavy object on a deformable surface) they use to explain the warping of space/time to non-physicists is confusing as well because it demonstrates ideas behind gravity but the demonstration itself uses our traditional concept of gravity to make the point.

OhU1
3/11/2010, 09:46 AM
It's just a theory!

yermom
3/11/2010, 11:52 AM
Cool. I have somewhat of a grasp on special relativitity but I know nothing about general relativity. I don't understand the "problem" with the Newtonian idea of gravity.

The demonstration (putting a heavy object on a deformable surface) they use to explain the warping of space/time to non-physicists is confusing as well because it demonstrates ideas behind gravity but the demonstration itself uses our traditional concept of gravity to make the point.

yeah, the deformed surface is a little confusing. it's like projecting forces in multiple dimensions into one, or something

Boarder
3/11/2010, 12:00 PM
There has been naturally occurring gravity for millions of years. Just because someone makes some wild theory about it doesn't mean its true. It said it was generally accepted by scientists. Bull! There are just as many scientists who don't accept it.

He is just doing this to make millions and take away our way of life!

NormanPride
3/11/2010, 12:11 PM
The ONLY gravity I RESPECT IS the GRAVITY OF the UNITED states CONstiTUTioN!

TMcGee86
3/11/2010, 12:24 PM
Just imagine a bed sheet being supported at the four corners, and a bowling ball in the middle. Obviously the sheet sinks to the middle where the bowling ball is.

Now imagine an infinite number of sheets in all directions.

The bowling ball is Earth, and the sheets are Space-Time.

soonerscuba
3/11/2010, 12:44 PM
Just imagine a bed sheet being supported at the four corners, and a bowling ball in the middle. Obviously the sheet sinks to the middle where the bowling ball is.

Now imagine an infinite number of sheets in all directions.

The bowling ball is Earth, and the sheets are Space-Time.I don't care what some pointy headed liberal with a bed sheet (wetted of course) has to say, Obama wants gov't control of gravity.

Fraggle145
3/11/2010, 12:52 PM
From Space.com

Equations predict the way that mass pulls on other mass in the universe

I'm waiting for the emails to come out... That is bull****.

http://www.cjshoppingmall.com/images/stargate.jpg

yermom
3/11/2010, 01:46 PM
Just imagine a bed sheet being supported at the four corners, and a bowling ball in the middle. Obviously the sheet sinks to the middle where the bowling ball is.

Now imagine an infinite number of sheets in all directions.

The bowling ball is Earth, and the sheets are Space-Time.

except the bowling ball only sinks in one direction and that doesn't account for time

fadada1
3/11/2010, 02:04 PM
knew it all along. been holding out to share the fame.

Leroy Lizard
3/11/2010, 02:15 PM
I don't care what some pointy headed liberal with a bed sheet (wetted of course) has to say, Obama wants gov't control of gravity.

A tax on mass would make Obama cream his jeans.

C&CDean
3/11/2010, 02:40 PM
You know, I wish scientists would spend more time using their massive brains to solve useful problems. Like why do you get a shiver sometimes when you pee? Or why do you feel the urge to fart when you pee?

BudSooner
3/11/2010, 02:58 PM
You know, I wish scientists would spend more time using their massive brains to solve useful problems. Like why do you get a shiver sometimes when you pee? Or why do you feel the urge to fart when you pee?

+1

Howzit
3/11/2010, 02:59 PM
why do you get a shiver sometimes when you pee?

In your case, it's probably because the toilet seat is cold.

1890MilesToNorman
3/11/2010, 03:06 PM
You would think they would try to figure out the mechanisms of gravity before they plot how it works on a universal scale. They know what gravity does but they don't know how it works. Seems like cart before the horse stuff?

C&CDean
3/11/2010, 03:12 PM
In your case, it's probably because the toilet seat is cold.

No, it's because your hands are cold.

Fraggle145
3/11/2010, 03:30 PM
You know, I wish scientists would spend more time using their massive brains to solve useful problems. Like why do you get a shiver sometimes when you pee? Or why do you feel the urge to fart when you pee?

If I had to wager a guess its because you are relaxing your pubococcygeus muscles and other muscles in your sphincter while you pee... and pppthpppthp.

Fraggle145
3/11/2010, 03:34 PM
And if i had to guess at the **** shivers, its probably because your body thinks it is getting cold since you are dropping off a good 8-24oz of warm pee.

Crucifax Autumn
3/11/2010, 03:38 PM
You know, I wish scientists would spend more time using their massive brains to solve useful problems. Like why do you get a shiver sometimes when you pee? Or why do you feel the urge to fart when you pee?

Even more importantly, what's with the excruciating taint-ache you get when relieving yourself after waiting a bit too long? :(

Fraggle145
3/11/2010, 03:45 PM
Even more importantly, what's with the excruciating taint-ache you get when relieving yourself after waiting a bit too long? :(

your pubococcygeus muscles are probably tired and strained from holding back the flow...

C&CDean
3/11/2010, 03:57 PM
See, a scientist can be useful.

Howzit
3/11/2010, 04:03 PM
My coccygeus pubos are getting kind of gray.

1890MilesToNorman
3/11/2010, 04:10 PM
Gray matter migrates over time.

Crucifax Autumn
3/11/2010, 04:11 PM
your pubococcygeus muscles are probably tired and strained from holding back the flow...

my pubocock is never tired! :mad:

Ike
3/11/2010, 04:53 PM
Cool. I have somewhat of a grasp on special relativitity but I know nothing about general relativity. I don't understand the "problem" with the Newtonian idea of gravity.

The demonstration (putting a heavy object on a deformable surface) they use to explain the warping of space/time to non-physicists is confusing as well because it demonstrates ideas behind gravity but the demonstration itself uses our traditional concept of gravity to make the point.

The problem with the newtonian idea of gravity, is that in Newtons laws, gravity has zero effect on time. In GR, it does. That GR is at least mostly correct has been known for quite some time. The fact that a little box in your car can tell you how to get from just about anywhere to your front porch is evidence of such. If GR (and SR) were not taken into account, GPS measurements would lose accuracy on the order of kilometers every single day.

Mjcpr
3/11/2010, 05:05 PM
Ike's right.

Fraggle145
3/11/2010, 06:37 PM
Ike's right.

I call bull****. The universe is too big for scientists to know wtf they are talking about.

silverwheels
3/11/2010, 06:49 PM
I call bull****. The universe is too big for scientists to know wtf they are talking about.

Depends on which universe they're talking about.

Fraggle145
3/11/2010, 07:30 PM
What the universe doesnt revolve around me?

Crucifax Autumn
3/11/2010, 08:31 PM
Science is the debil!

You'll all burn witches!