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Okla-homey
3/8/2010, 07:37 AM
Mar 8, 1971: Ali battles Frazier for heavyweight championship

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Thirty-nine years ago today, on March 8, 1971, Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier meet for the "Fight of the Century" at Madison Square Garden in New York City.

The bout marked Ali’s return to the marquee three-and-a-half years after boxing commissions revoked the draftees license over his refusal to report for military induction during the Vietnam War.

It was also Ali’s first chance to win back the heavyweight championship, which had been stripped by the WBA (World Boxing Association).

Both Ali and Frazier were undefeated and had won Olympic gold medals and multiple Golden Gloves championships, but their personalities were vastly different.

Ali, whose birth name was Marcellus Cassius Clay, Jr., adopted his current name upon his conversion to the "Nation of Islam," a Muslim sect founded by American Willie Poole, Jr. of Sandersville, Georgia who led the religion under the adopted name "Elijah Muhammed."

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Ali listens to Elijah Muhammed

Born in Loiusville, KY in 1942, Ali was a showboat, and his mastery of the media, his improvisational poetry during interviews and his debonair good looks separated him from every other fighter, and every other athlete, of his generation.

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Much to his opponent’s dismay, Ali successfully painted the less popular and more reserved Frazier as an "Uncle Tom" and an instrument of the establishment. Leading up to the fight, the national press fawned over Ali, heralding "the hero’s return." Ali played right along, while doing his best to knock Frazier off his game through mental intimidation. He even went so far as to repeatedly call Frazier a "gorilla."

On the night of the fight, celebrities filled Madison Square Garden. Miles Davis was resplendent in a red suit. Frank Sinatra sat ringside, photographing the fight for a Life magazine article. It was said that billions of people were following the fight in person, on TV or on the radio, and most of them were cheering for Ali.

The fight lived up to the hype. Ali initially landed more punches, gliding about the ring as light on his feet as he was in the prime of his career. Frazier’s punches, however, seemed to have more impact. By the eighth round, Frazier was leading six rounds to two with each judge. In the 11th round, Ali staggered but fought back, forcing the action into the 12th and 13th rounds.

The fight was already decided by the 15th, when Frazier landed a left hook to Ali’s right chin, knocking down the champ for the first time in his pro career.

Ali got up, but Frazier won the fight by unanimous decision, retaining his title and delivering Ali the first loss of his career.

The two fighters would fight twice more, in 1974 and 1975, with Ali winning both fights. The rivalry was so intense that, 20 years after their final fight, when Ali, suffering from the Parkinsons Disease he acquired after sustaining multiple traumatic brain injuries in the ring, carried the torch and lit the ceremonial flame at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, Frazier said "If I had the chance, I would have pushed him in."

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As Mrs. Lonnie Ali looks on, President George W. Bush embraces Muhammad Ali after presenting him with the Presidential Medal of Freedom on November 9, 2005, during ceremonies at the White House.

Crucifax Autumn
3/8/2010, 09:14 AM
Funny thing is if the me of today was watching that fight today I'd have a very hard time picking sides and I'd have to hope for an unprecedented tie. I'm just that torn on what they stood for at the time.

TUSooner
3/8/2010, 09:34 AM
I listened to the fight on the radio and was overjoyed that Frazier won. Ali was probably the best fighter in history, but to me, I will always think of him as standing against America, Christianity, and the old-school ideals of grace, class, and good sportsmanship that I was brung up to respect. He set the tone for all the things I dislike about modern sports. He did not invent showboating and trash talk, but he ultimately legitimized them. I couldn't like him then, and can't admire him now.

soonerbrat
3/8/2010, 09:43 AM
did you know that Ali was named after abolitionist Cassius Clay? My dad wrote, directed and starred in a play about the abolitionist and it was performed at the house called "Whitehall" that Cassius Clay owned. Ali's great-grandfather lived on the land owned by Clay.

the play was purty neat

Sooner04
3/8/2010, 09:59 AM
Ali, whose birth name was Marcellus Cassius Clay, Jr., adopted his current name upon his conversion to the "Nation of Islam," a Muslim sect founded by American Willie Poole, Jr. of Sandersville, Georgia who led the religion under the adopted name "Elijah Muhammed."
Just a heads-up, Homey, but he was actually born Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr.

Crucifax Autumn
3/8/2010, 10:16 AM
I listened to the fight on the radio and was overjoyed that Frazier won. Ali was probably the best fighter in history, but to me, I will always think of him as standing against America, Christianity, and the old-school ideals of grace, class, and good sportsmanship that I was brung up to respect. He set the tone for all the things I dislike about modern sports. He did not invent showboating and trash talk, but he ultimately legitimized them. I couldn't like him then, and can't admire him now.

Everything you say is why I'm torn.

TUSooner
3/8/2010, 11:14 AM
did you know that Ali was named after abolitionist Cassius Clay? My dad wrote, directed and starred in a play about the abolitionist and it was performed at the house called "Whitehall" that Cassius Clay owned. Ali's great-grandfather lived on the land owned by Clay.

the play was purty neat

Thanks much for that. I knew there was some connection between Cassius Marcellus Clay and a series of uncles and cousins of mine named Cassius Marcellus Cade. My aunt told me about it long ago, but I had lost the mental link until you posted that. Thanks!

Okla-homey
3/8/2010, 11:35 AM
Just a heads-up, Homey, but he was actually born Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr.

Good catch. Sometimes I'm sleepy when I do these things.

BTW, I recommend the movie "Ali" now in cable TV rotation. Will Smith did a superb job playing Ali IMHO.

Tulsa_Fireman
3/8/2010, 11:39 AM
Ain't that the fight Frazier broke Ali's jaw?

C&CDean
3/8/2010, 12:30 PM
Kenny Norton broke Ali's jaw.

And I'm with TU on this one. My pop hated Ali for dodging the draft and I was ecstatic when Frazier won. Cosell's call of "down goes Frazia, down goes Frazia!!" made me ill in the later fight.

Sooner04
3/8/2010, 12:48 PM
Kenny Norton broke Ali's jaw.

And I'm with TU on this one. My pop hated Ali for dodging the draft and I was ecstatic when Frazier won. Cosell's call of "down goes Frazia, down goes Frazia!!" made me ill in the later fight.
Dean,

That call was from the Foreman/Frazier fight in Kingston, Jamaica. Joe hit the deck something like 10 times that night.

Little known fact: George Foreman carried a wallet with the words "Bad Mother ****er" stamped on it.

C&CDean
3/8/2010, 01:29 PM
Who else hates nerdy ex-sportscaster go-fers?:twinkies:

Sooner04
3/8/2010, 02:16 PM
Hell, Dean, a well-read chimp would know it was the Foreman/Frazier fight.

C&CDean
3/8/2010, 02:18 PM
No, only a geeky red-headed bowler boy with an itchy google trigger finger would.

JohnnyMack
3/8/2010, 02:28 PM
If Dean and a well-read chimp played Jeopardy I'd have a tough time picking a winner.

Sooner04
3/8/2010, 02:32 PM
No, only a geeky red-headed bowler boy with an itchy google trigger finger would.
Get the **** outta here with that! I have no problem being called a geek, a geeky bowler, or a geeky, red-headed bowler, but get the **** outta here with the accusation that I had to go to google to figure out when the "down goes Frazier" call was made by Cosell.

A goose flying west in a snowstorm knows what bout that call is from. SHEESH!

C&CDean
3/8/2010, 03:14 PM
What about a geeky mulleted red-headed ex-intermural football benchwarmer POS baseball team lovin' gutterballer? Got a problem with that? And where'd you find the info on Foreman's alleged muh****ah wallet?

C&CDean
3/8/2010, 03:18 PM
If Dean and a well-read chimp played Jeopardy I'd have a tough time picking a winner.

I'll take latent homosexuals name John for $100 Alex.

Sooner04
3/8/2010, 03:24 PM
What about a geeky mulleted red-headed ex-intermural football benchwarmer POS baseball team lovin' gutterballer? Got a problem with that? And where'd you find the info on Foreman's alleged muh****ah wallet?
1. I have no problem with that.

2. I made it up. It's a reference to the wallet carried by Jules in "Pulp Fiction".

C&CDean
3/8/2010, 03:29 PM
Down goes Jules!! Down goes Jules!!

Crucifax Autumn
3/8/2010, 09:52 PM
Sh*t...Jules never goes down. That's why he's a bad motherf*cker!

Leroy Lizard
3/8/2010, 10:24 PM
Ali was probably the best fighter in history, but to me, I will always think of him as standing against America, Christianity, and the old-school ideals of grace, class, and good sportsmanship that I was brung up to respect. He set the tone for all the things I dislike about modern sports. He did not invent showboating and trash talk, but he ultimately legitimized them. I couldn't like him then, and can't admire him now.

Agreed. Ali was a grade-A jackass.

He wasn't the greatest fighter in history. Marciano was.

Sooner04
3/8/2010, 10:27 PM
It would've been interesting to judge Ali's legacy had he not lost the primest of his prime years. Then again, it was Ali's actions that caused him to lose those years.

royalfan5
3/9/2010, 05:08 PM
Agreed. Ali was a grade-A jackass.

He wasn't the greatest fighter in history. Marciano was.

Marciano wasn't the greatest fighter in history. His reign was short, and against one of the weakest groups of heavyweights in history. Marciano didn't beat a single great heavyweight in their prime. I suppose you could make the case that Ezzard Charles wasn't that far removed from his prime, but Wolcott was old, Archie Moore was old and blown-up, Joe Louis was pretty shot, Don Cockrell was a never was, Roland LaStarza not that great. Just because his 0 didn't go, doesn't mean his was the best.

C&CDean
3/9/2010, 05:18 PM
I hate to say it, but Mike Tyson in his prime would whoop Clay's *** all the way back to Kentucky. Ali lacked power which to me is everything in the HW division. You wanna float like a butterfly you better trim on down to cruiserweight.

What would have been cool to see is Tyson in his prime vs. Frazier in his prime. Toe-to-toe until one of them goes nighty night.

Leroy Lizard
3/9/2010, 06:42 PM
Marciano wasn't the greatest fighter in history. His reign was short, and against one of the weakest groups of heavyweights in history.

Marciano didn't allow his opponents to become great.

In 49 fights, only 6 went the distance with him. It's tough to be a great boxer when laying on the canvas.

Think about that: 49 fights, with 43 knockouts. Hell, 11 of them he knocked out in the first round!

Norton and Frazier became great because they were able to beat Ali. And Ali really lost more fights than his record shows. Boxers knew fully well that if the fight went the distance, Ali would get the nod. And who really doubts that his knockout of Liston wasn't completely rigged?

royalfan5
3/9/2010, 07:39 PM
Marciano didn't allow his opponents to become great.

In 49 fights, only 6 went the distance with him. It's tough to be a great boxer when laying on the canvas.

Think about that: 49 fights, with 43 knockouts. Hell, 11 of them he knocked out in the first round!

Norton and Frazier became great because they were able to beat Ali. And Ali really lost more fights than his record shows. Boxers knew fully well that if the fight went the distance, Ali would get the nod. And who really doubts that his knockout of Liston wasn't completely rigged?
Most observes also thought Tiger Ted Lowery and Roland LaStarza deserved the win on the cards in the first fight. So what if he knocked out 43 of 49, most of those guys got knocked out quite a bit. It wasn't a real accomplishment.

Besides, Joe Louis was better than both of them, even though Marcino beat a completely shot Joe Louis who was only fighting to clear up back taxes.

Okla-homey
3/9/2010, 07:41 PM
I hate to say it, but Mike Tyson in his prime would whoop Clay's *** all the way back to Kentucky. Ali lacked power which to me is everything in the HW division. You wanna float like a butterfly you better trim on down to cruiserweight.

What would have been cool to see is Tyson in his prime vs. Frazier in his prime. Toe-to-toe until one of them goes nighty night.

You are prolly right. Clay won his Olympic gold as a "light heavyweight."

royalfan5
3/9/2010, 08:01 PM
You are prolly right. Clay won his Olympic gold as a "light heavyweight."

When Ali was 18. Ali fought most of his career in the 210 to 220 lb range, while Frazier was 200 to 210. Tyson fought his amateur career at the equivalent of cruiserweight. In addition, sylistically Ali was better equipped to fight Tyson with his jab, height, and durability. Tyson always had trouble with substantially taller fighters, even Jose Ribalta gave him fits at times and Douglas was taller and a great jabber and we all know how that turned out. Frazier was built exactly for Tyson to destroy. An example would be the 16 second stoppage of Joe's son that Tyson had.

OhU1
3/9/2010, 08:02 PM
I hate to say it, but Mike Tyson in his prime would whoop Clay's *** all the way back to Kentucky.

Mike Tyson was a bum. Are you serious? Ali would have toyed with that tough man contestant like a cat with a hobbled mouse.

Sooner04
3/9/2010, 11:22 PM
What would have been cool to see is Tyson in his prime vs. Frazier in his prime. Toe-to-toe until one of them goes nighty night.
Hagler/Hearns was pretty darn close.