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View Full Version : Very interesting article on American spending habits



Chuck Bao
3/6/2010, 05:29 PM
What if someone proves that sin taxes work but subsidies just serve to negate the sin taxes?

I started a thread here several months ago about how economists must start looking at the US economy in a different light than any previous economic models relying on market demand and supply data. A few weeks later, Dean was talking about how his parents saved on low income salaries fifty years ago. Then, there are the typical threads that health care reform would be less pressing if Americans adopted more healthy life styles. This article pretty much ties these issues together and raises some important questions about our food, American spending habits and government intervention through taxes and subsidies.


Taxing Unhealthy Foods May Encourage Healthier Eating Habits
ScienceDaily (Feb. 25, 2010) —

Recently, the Obama administration called for a total ban on candy and soda in the nation's schools. States are beginning to impose "sin taxes" on fat and sugar to dissuade people from eating junk food. Pricing strategies may well be a key to changing behavior, but others favor subsidies over punitive taxes, as a way to encourage people to eat fruits and vegetables and whole grains. The thought is that if you make it cheaper, people will eat more of it, more expensive and people will eat less.

Decades of behavioral economics research argues that consumers are not always so rational and the two strategies have never been tested head to head, to see which one most effectively alters calorie consumption. So, psychological scientist Leonard Epstein at University of Buffalo, decided to explore the persuasiveness of sin taxes and subsides in the laboratory.

Epstein and colleagues simulated a grocery store, "stocked" with images of everything from bananas and whole wheat bread to Dr. Pepper and nachos. A group of volunteers -- all mothers -- were given laboratory "money" to shop for a week's groceries for the family. Each food item was priced the same as groceries at a real grocery nearby, and each food came with basic nutritional information.

The mother-volunteers went shopping several times in the simulated grocery. First they shopped with the regular prices, but afterward the researchers imposed either taxes or subsidies on the foods. That is, they either raised the prices of unhealthy foods by 12.5%, and then by 25%; or they discounted the price of healthy foods comparably. Then they watched what the mothers purchased.

To define healthy and unhealthy foods, the scientists used a calorie-for-nutrition value, or CFN, which is the number of calories one must eat to get the same nutritional payoff. For example, nonfat cottage cheese has a very low CFN, because it is high on nutrition but not on calories; chocolate chip cookies have a much higher CFN. The researchers also measured the energy density- essentially calories- in every food.

The results, just published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, show that taxes were more effective in reducing calories purchased over subsides. Specifically, taxing unhealthy foods reduced overall calories purchased, while cutting the proportion of fat and carbohydrates and upping the proportion of protein in a typical week's groceries.

By contrast, subsidizing the prices of healthy food actually increased overall calories purchased without changing the nutritional value at all. It appears that mothers took the money they saved on subsidized fruits and vegetables and treated the family to less healthy alternatives, such as chips and soda pop. Taxes had basically the opposite effect, shifting spending from less healthy to healthier choices.

On the basis of this laboratory research, the scientists conclude that subsidizing broccoli and yogurt- as appealing as that idea might be to some- may be unlikely to bring about the massive weight loss the nation now requires.

1890MilesToNorman
3/6/2010, 05:55 PM
Sin taxes were created by the devil, if we are indeed a free society then we should be free and everything taxed at the same rate. Social manipulation, via taxation, is as discriminatory as denying a person income, advancement, job opportunity, housing or education based on skin color.

The brainwashed will disagree.

Chuck Bao
3/6/2010, 06:13 PM
Just curious if you are okay with supplying the social safety net for those who drink and smoke and eat unhealthy foods.

Tulsa_Fireman
3/6/2010, 06:15 PM
It's not an either/or proposition.

Leroy Lizard
3/6/2010, 06:15 PM
I find it amazing how sinful these activities become when the feds need to search for money. I would rather they employ an honest message: "We need money and we think we can extract it from cigarette smokers because there are more of us than there are of them."

Leroy Lizard
3/6/2010, 06:16 PM
Just curious if you are okay with supplying the social safety net for those who drink and smoke and eat unhealthy foods.

Extend this to tattoos. Those who can afford to buy tattoos surely don't need government handouts.

Chuck Bao
3/6/2010, 06:26 PM
Ummm...how do you tax tattoos? An annual tax on tats? Ouch! Like strip search me and count them? I am pretty sure the tax auditor will not play along if I say I got my dick, balls, taint and butt tattooed. Or, maybe he would like to put his own stamp on me like a passport. 666 come to mind?

SoonerInKCMO
3/6/2010, 06:32 PM
Sin taxes were created by the devil, if we are indeed a free society then we should be free and everything taxed at the same rate. Social manipulation, via taxation, is as discriminatory as denying a person income, advancement, job opportunity, housing or education based on skin color.

The brainwashed will disagree.

I look at it as internalizing what would otherwise be external costs that would go unpaid by the initial consumer but instead by society as a whole. Cigarettes, alcohol, trans-fats, etc. lead to additional health care costs which, if spent on people that are uninsured or otherwise unable to pay, are paid by society.

Leroy Lizard
3/6/2010, 06:39 PM
They call that "rationalizing."

SoonerInKCMO
3/6/2010, 06:41 PM
Is it the concept of external costs or its application to this specific case that you disagree with?

Leroy Lizard
3/6/2010, 08:34 PM
The whole notion that we are sin-taxing to make up the costs associated with the activity. Give me a break.

We sin tax because we can. If we can extract another buck from people using a sin tax, we'll do it. It has nothing to do with offsetting health costs.

Crucifax Autumn
3/6/2010, 08:41 PM
If they'd just tax SO arguments the budget problems would be solved.

Chuck Bao
3/6/2010, 08:55 PM
The whole notion that we are sin-taxing to make up the costs associated with the activity. Give me a break.

We sin tax because we can. If we can extract another buck from people using a sin tax, we'll do it. It has nothing to do with offsetting health costs.

Who are we?

So, you are not for state's rights?

And, what happens when all of the sin taxes are going to the Indian tribes? They've got gambling. Thay have got tobacco. It will be funny when they corner the market in boose, fast food and TV watching.

Leroy Lizard
3/6/2010, 09:11 PM
Who are we?

So, you are not for state's rights?

And, what happens when all of the sin taxes are going to the Indian tribes? They've got gambling. Thay have got tobacco. It will be funny when they corner the market in boose, fast food and TV watching.

We = The royal we

I am very much for states' rights. What's the connection?

bluedogok
3/6/2010, 09:31 PM
It doesn't matter, find any white trash hangout around and they are sucking on two of the most highly taxed items in the US, beer and cigarettes. The majority of the price for both that the public pays is taxes, much more than the "actual cost" of the item. Tax their Twinkies and they will just buy Little Debbie's, they aren't going to buy fruit because for the most part it already is cheaper. It is just another excuse for more taxation.