Kevin Wilson . . .

[oudavid1]

Finish the sentence

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

needs to not audible at the goal line

[OklahomaTuba]

Needs to throw more to Gresham.

[Speer]

needs to not audible at the goal line

amen

[OklahomaTuba]

Needs to rip the reverse at his own 20 yard line with a backup QB and slow WR playcall outta the playbook.

[yankee]

is the best offensive coordinator EVAR!!!1

[badger]

... coaches meerkats

[Soonerman08]

Cost us the National Championship against Florida!

[BillyBall]

Will be a head coach somewhere after next year.

[...sooner]

Cost us the National Championship against Florida!

---ugh lets not re live this.

& he sucks.. fire wilson BRING BACK LEACH! haha

[TahoeSOONER]

...is brilliant at preparing for a defense and struggles to adjust during the game.

[Leroy Lizard]

needs more advice on how to coach from the fans at SoonerFans.

[Collier11]

needs advice from people on SFs like he needs a 3rd nipple

[starclassic tama]

is a damn good coach and anyone who doesn't think so needs to pick up watching a different sport

[Leroy Lizard]

Was picked by his peers as Assistant Coach of the Year. Of course, his peers also need advice on how to coach from the fans at SoonerFans.

[badger]

...has yet to totally embrace the foolproof "touchdown, tight end!" playbook, a playbook consisting of one and one play :D

[Collier11]

thinks Badger likes Mike Gundys spikey hair :eek: :D

[SoonerPr8r]

needs advice from people on SFs like he needs a 3rd nipple

Aren't 3rd nipples good luck? I think James Bond told me that once

[oudavid1]

BRING BACK LEACH!


I love you

[Collier11]

we were 7-5 with Leach at Off Coord, just sayin

[badger]

thinks Badger likes Mike Gundys spikey hair :eek: :D

...thinks Colly should now participate in one of Schmiddddy's conditioning drills. :mad:

[oudavid1]

we were 7-5 with Leach at Off Coord, just sayin

I know, i just love the way he coaches and interviews.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxBsXzvENpo

[Collier11]

...thinks Colly should now participate in one of Schmiddddy's conditioning drills. :mad:

you callin me fat :eek: :D

[badger]

you callin me fat :eek: :D

Nope, just a unique way to kill you for suggesting that I find that porcupine attractive in any way :mad:

;)

As for Kevin Wilson...

... wonders how he can get a cushy head coaching job like Gundy where all he has to do is draw up offensive plays while ignoring what's going on when his team's on defense.

[Collier11]

It mustve cut deep, I apologize


Back to KW, wishes that BV would have top 10 Ds when his O is Top 10, not when his O is Top 40

[goingoneight]

Is consistently producing offense everyone else only dreams they could.

[humblesooner]

...is no Chuck Long. ;)

[101sooner]

ran a 4.3 at the combine...

[Leroy Lizard]

Back to KW, wishes that BV would have top 10 Ds when his O is Top 10, not when his O is Top 40

So, when KW's offense is in the Top 40, he doesn't want BV's defense in the Top 10?

Interesting approach to football.

[IslandSooner]

could give a sh*t what the posters on soonerfans think............

[Curly Bill]

...has been deemed a god by some of the Kool Aid drinkers on SF.

[soonerfromgeorgia]

needs better players recruited from Georgia on defense so that he isn't trying to outscore more talented teams in BCS games !

[Al Gore]

....proved Andre Ware knew what he was talking about.....

[BoulderSooner79]

Cost us the National Championship against Florida!

Got us into a BCS title game against Florida while rewriting modern record books.

[sooner ngintunr]

thinks we should fire BV...

[Collier11]

So, when KW's offense is in the Top 40, he doesn't want BV's defense in the Top 10?

Interesting approach to football.

I meant to say "not just when"

[sooner ngintunr]

Got us into a BCS title game against Florida while rewriting modern record books.

It was the players, not the coach.

Best QB ever, cough, pro O-line, cough.

[Collier11]

yep, since players and coaches can both independently do anything, they all need each other. Case in point, OUs players under Blake compared to when Stoops took over

[sooner ngintunr]

yep, since players and coaches can both independently do anything, they all need each other. Case in point, OUs players under Blake compared to when Stoops took over

Jes sayin, the players that year were far better than KW was.

Records never fall because of coaches. IMSO.

We could have set those records with a different coach, we could not have set them without Sam Bradford.

[Leroy Lizard]

Records never fall because of coaches. IMSO.

I guess we should have just stayed with the veer in 1970.

[sooner ngintunr]

I guess we should have just stayed with the veer in 1970.

OK, maybe never.

tough crowd tonight.:O

[ashley]

is better than lots of people on this board think.

[sooner ngintunr]

is worse than lots of people on this board think.

[Collier11]

is worse than lots of people on this board think.

doesnt need anyone on this board to tell this guy ^ that he is fuggin clueless

[sooner ngintunr]

.

[Collier11]

plenty of numbers to back me up, you not so much

[sooner ngintunr]

doesnt need anyone on this board to tell this guy ^ that he is fuggin clueless

LMAO.

[sooner ngintunr]

too easy bro. LOL

[Collier11]

you cant claim sarcasm when nothing you said indicates that, thats pretty weak

[sooner ngintunr]

its not sarcasm.

[Collier11]

then you are flat our wrong, either way have fun playing with yourself

[sooner ngintunr]

Good OC's go on to HC jobs.

[Collier11]

again, you are proving to be more and more clueless. And if you want to call that baiting so be it, if you say something completely uninformed then you will get called on it, if you enjoy being called out for being blatantly wrong, enjoy yourself

[sooner ngintunr]

thinks Collie takes these type of threads too serious.:D

[Curly Bill]

is worse than lots of people on this board think.

This is the right answer regardless of what the Kool Aid drinkers think. ;)

[SoonerLB]

. . . sometimes calls plays that make me scream at my television!

[Jdog]

is a good 7 and 4 kind of coach out of that old power house Northwestern.

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

It was the players, not the coach.

What is this.....1996? ;)

http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/si_online/covers/images/1994/0801_large.jpg

[Collier11]

thinks Collie takes these type of threads too serious.:D

me thinks you run your mouth about a subject that you have little knowledge about, no facts to back up your statements, then you resort to retarded statements like this to make it look like you are all funny and stuff

[Salt City Sooner]

Good OC's go on to HC jobs.
Signed, Norm Chow.

[BoomerJ]

Can grow a mean stache.

[starclassic tama]

Good OC's go on to HC jobs.

norm chow? epic retard fail

[Leroy Lizard]

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/viewCFSE.asp?selposition=2

It won't format, but they have Kevin Wilson ranked #4 with rising stock. Hmmm...

[Sooner70]

......had a lot of problems in the red zone last year.

[oudavid1]

me thinks you run your mouth about a subject that you have little knowledge about, no facts to back up your statements, then you resort to retarded statements like this to make it look like you are all funny and stuff

Alright guys; break it up

[goingoneight]

What earns a guy a break as an OC?

Sam is a talented athlete, but was not some big time QB until his time at OU.
Demarco was widely regarded as a DB
Quentin Chaney was a former QB, as was Manny Johnson.
The "NFL O-Line" you speak of consisted of an undersized center, a JUCO LT, a converted DL at LG and the right side by committee. I'd say coaching had a little to do with that transition to greatness.

The offense has it's flaws, and when you take away it's playmakers, no matter who the coach is there will ALWAYS be a dropoff. But seriously... anyone retarded enough to think KW is a problem needs to quit at twelve lines a day.

[sooner ngintunr]

.

[BoulderSooner79]

It was the players, not the coach.

Best QB ever, cough, pro O-line, cough.

USC consistently has players of that caliber (except at QB) and not the records. Our receivers were average compared to some other schools. The design of the offense was a huge factor in overall success and got us to a title game with an average defense (for an elite program) and a poor special teams. And I'm one that knocks KW for in game adjustments, but credit where credit is due - it was a great scheme and the players played well *as a team*, not just individual talent. KW and staff did a great job and didn't cost us a title. If anything, the players didn't execute to their potential when the spotlight was brightest.

[...sooner]

... called a run play on 1st & 45.

[sooner ngintunr]

If anything, the players didn't execute to their potential when the spotlight was brightest.

I disagree. I'll leave it at that. I think the Coaches were more of a letdown in that particular game. I don't really want to get into it. Its been hashed out enough. I don't take this internet crap as serious as some people do in the off season I guess (esp in a "finish this sentence thread"). Don't feel like arguing.

See ya when the season starts and all the Coach bashing starts back up. LOL.

[sooner ngintunr]

.

[BoulderSooner79]

OCs (and other coordinators) don't necessarily make good head coaches. The Peter principle usually ensures they will be given a shot and many fail and often return to being good coordinators again. Head coach is a very different job - more like a CEO. It could be KW doesn't interview well or maybe he doesn't want the HC position (they all want the $$). My guess is he'll get a shot, but if no bad reflection on him if it doesn't work out. I do think fresh blood is needed in a program, but it's a double edged sword. New guys don't always work out regardless of how great they did at the previous job and it causes turmoil. Such is life and football.

[Collier11]

... called a run play on 1st & 45.

and converted 2 plays later

[oudavid1]

For the record, you people can't even IMAGINE how bad the "coaching" Sammy B had when he was in High School. Like really sad stuff

[goingoneight]

So let me see... Florida blocks a FG, receivers drop routine passes (one of which was in the endzone, the other a perfectly-thrown deep ball to Iglesias), we have no Murray (AKA "big-play" capability) and the O-Line let Carlos Dunlap eat their lunch on the goal line and that's KW's fault?

L... O... L.

[oudavid1]

L... O... L.

Hahaha you said lol :)

[...sooner]

and converted 2 plays later

yes true & thank GOD for that. but it was still lame.

[badger]

...combines both the quirkiness of Leach the fatness of Mangino and the recruiting of Chuck Long into uber-O-coordination!

...hopes that doesn't mean he'll get unceremoniously dumped from his first post-OU head coaching job.

[Leroy Lizard]

... called a run play on 1st & 45.

Which was a good call.

[...sooner]

Which was a good call.

meh...

[btk108]

needs advice from people on SFs like he needs a 3rd nipple

You can get one of these?....where?...how much?

[Collier11]

how much you got

[btk108]

$5.37

[Collier11]

damn, you have to have tree-fitty

[btk108]

can I put it on layaway?

[Collier11]

I can give you half now and half when you pay in full

[btk108]

you're just using pepperoni's, aren't you?

[oudavid1]

you're just using pepperoni's

Ok how did we get to this point?

[Collier11]

BTK needs extra nippage

[btk108]

it's called a "threadjacking"....sit back and enjoy the ride.

[oudavid1]

it's called a "threadjacking"....sit back and enjoy the ride.

F*** It, go faster go faster

[OU_Sooners75]

we were 7-5 with Leach at Off Coord, just sayin

One year after being what 5-6? Good call!

Bring back Mangino! :D

[OU_Sooners75]

me thinks you run your mouth about a subject that you have little knowledge about, no facts to back up your statements, then you resort to retarded statements like this to make it look like you are all funny and stuff

....thinks collier has his panties in a bunch. :D

[btk108]

75....stop rejacking the thread, dude. Get on board

[Collier11]

75 is a mega rejacker :eek:

and No 75 my panties arent in a bunch, nor are my bikini briefs, I just get sick of the arrogance and idiocy of people who claim that KW is a bad off coord when it is obvious that he isnt. Sure, he makes mistakes just like every coord in the game but the guy is top 10 in the nation right now

[btk108]

C11....I heard that...couldn't confirm it....so I didn't want to start any rumors

[goingoneight]

... thinks spaces belong between "..."

[Collier11]

C11....I heard that...couldn't confirm it....so I didn't want to start any rumors

its all true

[sooner ngintunr]

is better than lots of people on this board think.
collier11/Genius!!/collier11

is worse than lots of people on this board think.
collier11/Idiot!!/collier11

:P

[Collier11]

butt sniffer ^ :D

[TahoeSOONER]

...should be a Sooner as long as we can keep him.

[OU_Sooners75]

75 is a mega rejacker :eek:

and No 75 my panties arent in a bunch, nor are my bikini briefs, I just get sick of the arrogance and idiocy of people who claim that KW is a bad off coord when it is obvious that he isnt. Sure, he makes mistakes just like every coord in the game but the guy is top 10 in the nation right now

LOL...KW is a heck of an OC. It just seems like sometimes he is incapable of adjusting his gameplan when things are not going right.

I am more happy with KW than any other OC we have had in the last 20 years!

[oudavid1]

I am more happy with KW than any other OC we have had in the last 20 years!

That raps it up

[Leroy Lizard]

Wraps it up.

If it was raps it up, you would write something like:

Jocco beyotch is KW
'Cause KW's *** is **** you!

Crap, I can't do it. I just can't dumb it down enough. (Here come the jokes.)

[SoonerLB]

Leroy be rappin' his lips 'roun' some new ma-terial! ;)

[Sooner-N-KS]

....... said the offensive line last year would be one of OU's best ever.

[Sooner-N-KS]

......... called the BYU game like it was a scrimmage. He had a new toy, and he was testing it out to see what would work and what wouldn't. He arrogantly assumed there was no way he would lose and looked at the game as an opportunity to experiment.

[Sooner-N-KS]

.......... used 5 different running backs in the first quarter + first series of the 2nd quarter against BYU. The last of those was Matt Clapp, and he called a running play to Clapp on 3rd & 6!

[Sooner-N-KS]

....... failed to make blocking adjustments to the BYU blitz that they ran over and over until they took Sam out for the year.

[texaspokieokie]

leach was very good.

[Leroy Lizard]

......... called the BYU game like it was a scrimmage. He had a new toy, and he was testing it out to see what would work and what wouldn't. He arrogantly assumed there was no way he would lose and looked at the game as an opportunity to experiment.

You must be clairvoyant or know KW personally.

[oudavid1]

....... said the offensive line last year would be one of OU's best ever.

ehhhhh i dont think this happened. but if it did thats scary.

[Soonerman08]

It was the players, not the coach.

Best QB ever, cough, pro O-line, cough.

Playcalling, which comes from the coach. He even admitted to this.

[Soonerman08]

ehhhhh i dont think this happened. but if it did thats scary.

This DID happen.

[BoulderSooner79]

This DID happen.

That was just at the end of fall camp trying to pump the guys up. Both him and Stoops had been challenging/calling them out all year and there was no point to doing that anymore with the season about to start. Stoops and KW were clearly concerned about the Oline play going into the season.

[Sooner-N-KS]

ehhhhh i dont think this happened. but if it did thats scary.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20090808_202_B1_OUoffe74854

[Sooner-N-KS]

That was just at the end of fall camp trying to pump the guys up. Both him and Stoops had been challenging/calling them out all year and there was no point to doing that anymore with the season about to start. Stoops and KW were clearly concerned about the Oline play going into the season.

No, it was well before the end of fall camp. He may have said it again after fall camp, but he was doing it at the beginning of camp as well.

Now if your theory is correct, what are the guys to think when he says anything this year? What do they believe? If he was blowing smoke last year how do they know he's not setting them up this year?

[Sooner-N-KS]

You must be clairvoyant or know KW personally.

Did you even watch the BYU game?

What is the point in running 5 running backs in the first quarter and first series of the 2nd quarter?

What is the point in giving Matt Clapp the ball on 3rd & 6?

What is the point in having Clapp in at running back at all when you have Chris Brown, Demarco Murray, Jermie Calhoun, and Mosis Madu?

Madu was the 4th ball carrier of the first quarter. He's super talented, but with the other talent on the field why was he in when he had been practicing at slot instead of RB?

Kevin Wilson also fiddled around with the Wildcat formation in the first half......taking the ball away from our Heisman Trophey winner. KW was testing it out and found it wasn't that productive as we didn't see it much (if any) after BYU.

He called the 1st half like it was a scrimmage where OU had no chance of losing!

[Leroy Lizard]

Did you even watch the BYU game?

What is the point in running 5 running backs in the first quarter and first series of the 2nd quarter?

I don't know as much about offensive playcalling strategy as KW so I can't say.


What is the point in giving Matt Clapp the ball on 3rd & 6?

What is the point in having Clapp in at running back at all when you have Chris Brown, Demarco Murray, Jermie Calhoun, and Mosis Madu?

Let's see... we're playing West Virginia, and they have a burner for a RB and QB... it would be stupid to give the ball to their FB. Stupid I tell ya!

At this time our players are still chasing their slow FB to the end zone.

Now, if we had stuffed the play, guess what would have happened? Know-it-alls like yourself would be posting messages on fan boards. "What the Hell was he thinking? What a stupid call."

This is why hindsight is so dangerous.


Back to my point of contention:


He arrogantly assumed there was no way he would lose and looked at the game as an opportunity to experiment.

You cannot know that unless you spoke to him personally.


He called the 1st half like it was a scrimmage where OU had no chance of losing!

Sorry, but that point of view is insane.

[BoulderSooner79]

No, it was well before the end of fall camp. He may have said it again after fall camp, but he was doing it at the beginning of camp as well.

Now if your theory is correct, what are the guys to think when he says anything this year? What do they believe? If he was blowing smoke last year how do they know he's not setting them up this year?

Coaches repeat stuff all the time for effect and the players eat it up. The goal is to reach their emotions and motivate them, it's not based on facts. If they feel they need to challenge players or call them out, they'll do it. If they need to pump them and blow said smoke, they'll do that to. Most these kids have been playing for 10+ years and they've heard it all and they still respond. But you can go back on this and other boards to winter and spring before last season, and there were major O-line concerns and Stoops didn't hide it. He even pulled one players scholly. And that concern was before any injuries occurred.

[Collier11]

SoonerNKS has no clue what he is talking about, I understand your frustration but get over yourself, you dont know jack

[Leroy Lizard]

How can you question the coaching skills of a fan who has been watching the team for at least five years?

[Collier11]

no idea

[Leroy Lizard]

I have heard there are fans on here that have been watching the team for over ten years. TEN YEARS!!

And some of them have even played high school football. Why they're freakin' geniuses, I tell ya'.

[OU_Sooners75]

I have heard there are fans on here that have been watching the team for over ten years. TEN YEARS!!

And some of them have even played high school football. Why they're freakin' geniuses, I tell ya'.


LOL I actually had to laugh about this one....good job liztard!

[gaylordfan1]

Thats why we should have an open application for all Sooner Fans who think they can run this OFFENSE! Do it..... I said DO IT!

[Leroy Lizard]

No problem.

BTW, it's okay to question a call. Everyone makes mistakes. Even KW, as awesome as he is, makes mistakes.

It's another thing to claim that KW doesn't know his job. There is nothing that goes on during the game that gets by KW. He knows the situation better than any of us.

No offensive coordinator is going to call plays that keeps the fans happy, because some plays will fail and (get this) sometimes the team will lose.

So why were five RBs in the game against BYU? KW has his reasons. (And one of those reasons may be that Stoops wanted those players in there. Did anyone think of that?)

[gaylordfan1]

agreed^

[OU_Sooners75]

Stating the obvious there actually Leroy.

Like I stated earlier in this thread.

KW, IMHO, has been the best OC we have had in the last 20+ years!

Not sure why people bitch about him...could be worse...we could still have Chuck Long!

[gaylordfan1]

we will have to see how he approaches the game plan this year......

[OU_Sooners75]

we will have to see how he approaches the game plan this year......


What exactly do you mean?

Why wouldn't he continue to do what has made him the 2008 Assistant Coach of the Year?

[gaylordfan1]

Sorry Sooner 75... didn't mean to tickle a nerve. I was just saying we will have to see what kind of year he will have with the new players on offense. New weapons mean different plays and different schemes. Should have more than Broyles to plan the playbook around this coming season. THats all.

[Leroy Lizard]

So how are we going to judge his work if we don't know as much as he does?

[gaylordfan1]

Its like opening your closet and trying to pick out a shirt in the dark... you just have to remember that you've been there before.

[gaylordfan1]

He will be hungry for the running game this year.... This much I'm sure of!

[gaylordfan1]

Well, 60% sure..... :confused:

[OU_Sooners75]

Sorry Sooner 75... didn't mean to tickle a nerve. I was just saying we will have to see what kind of year he will have with the new players on offense. New weapons mean different plays and different schemes. Should have more than Broyles to plan the playbook around this coming season. THats all.


No big deal man. Just wondered what you meant.

Of course the planning will be altered slightly thanks to different players here and there. But the schema will remain the same I think.

[Sooner-N-KS]

It's another thing to claim that KW doesn't know his job. There is nothing that goes on during the game that gets by KW. He knows the situation better than any of us.



I don't know as much about offensive playcalling strategy as KW so I can't say.




Neither does he.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20090808_202_B1_OUoffe74854

"I don't know if I know offense as well (as some)," Wilson said. "But I know offensive lines."

In a story where he's praising an inept offensive line he admits he doesn't know the offense as much as he knows the OL.


KW always knows what's going on in the game better than everyone else? Then why didn't he understand the clock was running down on the goal line while Landry was waiting for KW's play call to get to him?

[Leroy Lizard]

Neither does he.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextr... 1_OUoffe74854

"I don't know if I know offense as well (as some)," Wilson said. "But I know offensive lines."

In a story where he's praising an inept offensive line he admits he doesn't know the offense as much as he knows the OL.

It's called humility.

He's been an offensive coordinator for five years. He won the Broyles Award while he was an offensive coordinator. He knows offense.

Even if what he said was true, he still knows far more about offense than any nuts on this board.


KW always knows what's going on in the game better than everyone else? Then why didn't he understand the clock was running down on the goal line while Landry was waiting for KW's play call to get to him?

Are we even sure that was KW's fault? Was there a line of communication broken that may have delayed the call getting to the quarterback.

Or perhaps it was (gasp) a mistake.

If you think you even know as much as 10% of what he knows about the game, you're deluded.

[Leroy Lizard]

BTW, I didn't realize that KW has a degree in mathematics. Interesting.

[Collier11]

Stoops said that was his fault after the game

[Curly Bill]

Why wouldn't he continue to do what has made him the 2008 Assistant Coach of the Year?

Because personnel changes and you have to change with them, you know like when your Heisman winning QB goes down and you have to adapt your offense to best fit the untested new guy....

...oh wait, we didn't do that? OK, forget I said that. :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

you know like when your Heisman winning QB goes down

... and your TE goes down, and most of your offensive line goes down.

If you have injuries, your team is going to suffer. Get over it.

[Curly Bill]

... and your TE goes down, and most of your offensive line goes down.

If you have injuries, your team is going to suffer. Get over it.

So instead of adjusting our scheme to best fit our remaining personnel we just keep hammering that square peg into a round hole? Got it! :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

So instead of adjusting our scheme to best fit our remaining personnel we just keep hammering that square peg into a round hole?

Sometimes you just have to run the offense you practiced all year.

[Curly Bill]

Which is why I said adjust your scheme, not change the whole damn thing!

[Leroy Lizard]

Fans love to talk about this magical "scheme."

Another way to put it, what changes did you want and how do you know they would have been effective?

[Sooner-N-KS]

So instead of adjusting our scheme to best fit our remaining personnel we just keep hammering that square peg into a round hole? Got it! :rolleyes:

Exactly! And he didn't adjust the blocking scheme to pick up the BYU blitz that ended up knocking Sam out.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Fans love to talk about this magical "scheme."

Another way to put it, what changes did you want and how do you know they would have been effective?

How about going to the huddle so inexperienced offensive linemen can better understand what they are supposed to do and get the snap count, and a freshman QB can slow down the game a bit?

[Curly Bill]

The "scheme" definitely was not magical.

How to know when changes are effective -- when your team is able to have success, that's how you know. You have to give your players the best chance to be successful, not that they will be, but you have to give them the best chance at it, and I don't think KW did that last year.

Having said that, I admit with the injuries we had success was going to be difficult to come by, but you still have to put your players in the best position to have a chance and I don't think KW (and by extension Bob) did that.

[Leroy Lizard]

How about going to the huddle so inexperienced offensive linemen can better understand what they are supposed to do and get the snap count, and a freshman QB can slow down the game a bit?

Let me get this straight: This is all about the huddle?

Sorry, but we didn't lose our games because the players didn't get the right snap count.

[Leroy Lizard]

How to know when changes are effective -- when your team is able to have success, that's how you know. You have to give your players the best chance to be successful, not that they will be, but you have to give them the best chance at it, and I don't think KW did that last year.

deleted

[Curly Bill]

Let me get this straight: This is all about the huddle?

Sorry, but we didn't lose our games because the players didn't get the right snap count.

You do know that they do things in the huddle besides determine snap count right?

[Leroy Lizard]

Yeah, they tell Broyles "When you get to the Buick, turn left. Murray, run to the sewer drain and wait for the ball..."

[Curly Bill]

Yeah, they tell Broyles "When you get to the Buick, turn left. Murray, run to the sewer drain and wait for the ball..."

See, I suspected you haven't been around football since you were about 8. Now I know.

[Leroy Lizard]

Oh, but you're Mr. Offensive Coordinator, right?

[Curly Bill]

Actually I have been one in the past. Thanks for asking.

[Leroy Lizard]

Sure, and I won the Heisman Trophy.

[Leroy Lizard]

So let me guess: Stoops offered you the OC job on account of your brilliance, but you turned it down, right? Poor Stoops, all he had left was KW, who obviously can't hold a candle to your knowledge.

[Curly Bill]

Wow, I'm so hurt you don't believe me. :(

Actually I just feel like a dumas for doing this little back and forth with you. You've proven in many other threads you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and yet that's never stopped you.

Oh well, you live and learn. :(

[oudavid1]

This Thread went farther than i originally contemplated.

[Collier11]

I have a clue Curly and you are both wrong :D

[Curly Bill]

I have a clue Curly and you are both wrong :D

That's cause your vision is cloudy from all that red Kool Aid you been guzzling here lately. :D

[Collier11]

I dont even like kool aid

[Curly Bill]

I dont even like kool aid

So...you force yourself to drink it?

[Leroy Lizard]

Wow, I'm so hurt you don't believe me.

Well, I do know that Stoops didn't pick you as his OC. He picked KW. Gee, I wonder why?

[Curly Bill]

Leroy, to claim to be a college professor of some sort you argue like a 10 year old.

[Leroy Lizard]

My point stands: You are not more knowledgeable about running an offense than KW. If you were, you would be doing it.

Everybody thinks they're an offensive coordinator. They call them "Monday Morning Quarterbacks." Like Knute Rockne once said after he was asked why his team lost: "I won't know until Monday when my barber tells me."

This is the mass delusion of KW bashers: "I know a lot about offenses. I would be a big-time offensive coordinator today if it hadn't been for __________________."

[Collier11]

So...you force yourself to drink it?

I dont touch the stuff, all ive ever said is that KW is a really good Off coord and BV is a really good Def coord.

Do they make mistakes, yes! Does every coord in the country make mistakes, yes. Having said that, there are few out there who are better

[oudavid1]

I just got my first coaching offer for a public school here in Oklahoma. So I might work my way up to be on Bob's staff. I'm only 17 so give me a few months.

[Leroy Lizard]

If you work really hard, you might be able to work your way up to Curly Bill's level of expertise.

[Curly Bill]

If you work really hard, you might be able to work your way up to Curly Bill's level of expertise.

Yeah, but can your dad beat up my dad? :O

[Leroy Lizard]

Not anymore. :(

[oudavid1]

If you work really hard, you might be able to work your way up to Curly Bill's level of expertise.

I can only dream

[Leroy Lizard]

Many others have, and failed. This is what happens when the standard is just set too damn high. Why even try?

[Sooner-N-KS]

OK, Leroy, I admit that I am not an offensive coordinator, and I don't pretend to be.

But can you tell me why it is a smart thing to have Chris Brown, Demarco Murray, Jermie Calhoun, Jonathan Miller and Mosis Madu all on the bench when the game is still in question while handing the ball off to Matt Clapp on 3rd & 6? Try all you want, but you can't defend that one.

Maybe someone else can come up with another explanation, but the only one I can come up with is arrogance. He assumed that there was no way in the world we would lose to BYU so it didn't matter if he did a little live action test with Clapp.

[btk108]

That's cause your vision is cloudy from all that red Kool Aid you been guzzling here lately. :D

It was raspberry vodka.....and the veil he was wearing with his Sunday hat.

[Leroy Lizard]

But can you tell me why it is a smart thing to have Chris Brown, Demarco Murray, Jermie Calhoun, Jonathan Miller and Mosis Madu all on the bench when the game is still in question while handing the ball off to Matt Clapp on 3rd & 6? Try all you want, but you can't defend that one.

Dear Fiesta Bowl officials:

We respectfully request that seven points be deducted from the final score of the Oklahoma/West Virginia game. After the game, it was revealed that the ball carrier, Owen Schmitt, on one West Virginia touchdown was in fact a fullback. Given that West Virginia had many players on their team that were faster than Mr. Schmitt, the decision by the West Virginia coaching staff to run Schmitt on the play in question was clearly a mistake.

We eagerly await your decision,

Bob Stoops
Head Coach
University of Oklahoma

[Sooner-N-KS]

Dear Fiesta Bowl officials:

We respectfully request that seven points be deducted from the final score of the Oklahoma/West Virginia game. After the game, it was revealed that the ball carrier, Owen Schmitt, on one West Virginia touchdown was in fact a fullback. Given that West Virginia had many players on their team that were faster than Mr. Schmitt, the decision by the West Virginia coaching staff to run Schmitt on the play in question was clearly a mistake.

We eagerly await your decision,

Bob Stoops
Head Coach
University of Oklahoma

This is the dumbest defense ever! I can't believe you are seriously trying to make it.

Your argument seems to be since a fullback named Owen Schmitt burned OU a few years ago, Matt Clapp should obviously burn BYU. Sorry, but I don't see Owen Schmitt on the OU roster.

Owen Schmitt was one of the best RUNNING fullbacks in the country. I believe he averaged over 300 yards/year. In 2008 Clapp had 7 carries for 21 yards......he's hardly Owen Schmitt.

Not once did I try to say that the problem was KW was handing the ball off to a fullback. The problem was handing the ball off to Matt Clapp! I like the guy. He's a great blocker. He was a decent running back in high school, but this is not high school.

Is it your position that Kevin Wilson saw how a fullback from WV burned OU so he was trying to copy them, and he was TESTING out whether or not OU could burn another team with a fullback?

Well, what Kevin Wilson missed was that Owen Schmitt was in a fullback position in an offense that was designed to run with either the running back, QB or fullback. Oklahoma even used to have an offense that had running plays for the fullback.......it was called the WISHBONE! Kevin Wilson wasn't playing Clapp at fullback. Clapp was not playing his fullback position, he was playing RUNNING BACK!!!!

Now that I've destroyed your argument, get the fullback thing out of your mind. I never once mentioned fullback. I mentioned giving the ball to MATT CLAPP on 3rd and 6 while we had Brown, Murray, Calhoun, Miller and Madu on the sideline.

Again, I'm not an offensive coordinator, but I can recognize things that need to be done to win against a good team. When you want to win against a good team you run with Murray and Brown. You don't use Calhoun (first game ever), Madu (practicing at slot) and especially Matt Clapp early in a close game. If you want to give Clapp the ball in the 4th quarter of a blow out.....I don't care. But you don't give it to him on 3rd & 6 in the 2nd quarter if you are trying to win.

If you are seriously trying to convert a 1st down by running on 3rd & 6 who would you have in at running back?

[Sooner-N-KS]

I'll take your argument a step further.........

Since WVU's QB Pat White had 150 yards on the ground against OU, we obviously should have been running Sam Bradford against BYU.

[gaylordfan1]

HMMMM, maybe KW thought that having Mr. Clapp at RB would make the BYU def back off the run bc why would they give HIM the ball. Now, setting up the def for their "obvious passing situation" he gives the ball to Clapp to get the first down while they are looking downfield. Just an argument. Fuel to the fire. :D :confused: :D
:pop:

[Sooner-N-KS]

HMMMM, maybe KW thought that having Mr. Clapp at RB would make the BYU def back off the run bc why would they give HIM the ball. Now, setting up the def for their "obvious passing situation" he gives the ball to Clapp to get the first down while they are looking downfield. Just an argument. Fuel to the fire. :D :confused: :D
:pop:

Do we have a history of doing this? No. Kevin Wilson was testing things to see if they would work. It might have been a good idea against Idaho St., not BYU. This just goes to my point that KW was using the first half of BYU like a scrimmage to see what would work and what wouldn't. WE USED 5 RUNNING BACKS IN LESS THAN ONE HALF!!!!! We used the Wildcat a couple of times as well that we hadn't used much previously or even after that point. The Wildcat would have made more sense in the 2nd half with Sam out instead of taking the ball away from OUr Heisman Trophy winner.

Why would BYU think that and back off the run? Because Clapp can't run the ball outside of high school. They knew that they could play the pass and still have people in position to catch Clapp if he tried to run it......and they did. KW didn't realize that, and we lost the game.

Now who knows what would have happened, but just think of the possibilities for the whole season if Demarco Murray were in the game and we converted that 3rd & 6. If we could keep Corey Brandon from jumping offsides or holding we may have scored. How would that have impacted the game? Is it possible that Sam may not have been hurt and we win the game? We'll never know.

[BoulderSooner79]

No one is saying KW or any other coach is perfect. Bottom line is that last season we had an ineffective O-line which put more pressure on inexperienced receivers which more pressure on an inexperienced QB. Had play calling been "perfect" (and I don't know how you would define that), we would not have won the conference, nor gone to a BCS bowl and no way in h*ll gone to the BCS title game. So it would have been just a matter of which 2nd tier bowl we would have gone to your arguing about. It was a rebuilding year on offense and we won't know until this season if it was a successful one.

As for '08, I'll take 50+ pts/game with most games determined by halftime, thank-you. And you don't get to a BCS title game with an average defense and poor special teams - just check your coaching cliches. But somehow we did and KW had a lot to do with it. I've whined about in game adjustments and play calling too, but there's this whole baby and bath water thing to consider.

[ashley]

No one is saying KW or any other coach is perfect. Bottom line is that last season we had an ineffective O-line which put more pressure on inexperienced receivers which more pressure on an inexperienced QB. Had play calling been "perfect" (and I don't know how you would define that), we would not have won the conference, nor gone to a BCS bowl and no way in h*ll gone to the BCS title game. So it would have been just a matter of which 2nd tier bowl we would have gone to your arguing about. It was a rebuilding year on offense and we won't know until this season if it was a successful one.

As for '08, I'll take 50+ pts/game with most games determined by halftime, thank-you. And you don't get to a BCS title game with an average defense and poor special teams - just check your coaching cliches. But somehow we did and KW had a lot to do with it. I've whined about in game adjustments and play calling too, but there's this whole baby and bath water thing to consider.

No kidding.

[Sooner-N-KS]

No one is saying KW or any other coach is perfect. Bottom line is that last season we had an ineffective O-line which put more pressure on inexperienced receivers which more pressure on an inexperienced QB. Had play calling been "perfect" (and I don't know how you would define that), we would not have won the conference, nor gone to a BCS bowl and no way in h*ll gone to the BCS title game. So it would have been just a matter of which 2nd tier bowl we would have gone to your arguing about. It was a rebuilding year on offense and we won't know until this season if it was a successful one.

As for '08, I'll take 50+ pts/game with most games determined by halftime, thank-you. And you don't get to a BCS title game with an average defense and poor special teams - just check your coaching cliches. But somehow we did and KW had a lot to do with it. I've whined about in game adjustments and play calling too, but there's this whole baby and bath water thing to consider.

I disagree on winning the conference. With as bad as the team was last year they barely lost to Texass. It wouldn't have taken much to beat Texass and Nebraska......heck, we were a field goal kicker away.

[BoulderSooner79]

I disagree on winning the conference. With as bad as the team was last year they barely lost to Texass. It wouldn't have taken much to beat Texass and Nebraska......heck, we were a field goal kicker away.

Yeah, we were *this close* 4 times. If it happens once or twice, could be a flute. But 4 times? We deserved to lose all 5 games last year as we were just hanging on and hoping for something good to happen. And we didn't have that kicker - that was part of our overall team. That's like saying we would have won more if we have had a QB like, say - Sam Bradford. But we didn't and bottom line we were not an elite team. Too bad, because we were elite level on D, but that's not enough.

But I'm still hopeful last year will be considered a successful rebuilding year. It's a bit of a leap of faith given the Oline is as big of a question as last year, but we have a history of strong Oline's, so I'm hoping last year was a fluke and not the new norm.

[Sooner-N-KS]

But I'm still hopeful last year will be considered a successful rebuilding year. It's a bit of a leap of faith given the Oline is as big of a question as last year, but we have a history of strong Oline's, so I'm hoping last year was a fluke and not the new norm.

Unfortunately, we also have a history of weak offensive lines. Remember 2005? Not even AD could run through that line very well.

I hope we're done running off quality linemen. If we can keep the guys we just recruited around the future is looking bright.

[oudavid1]

Unfortunately, we also have a history of weak offensive lines. Remember 2005? Not even AD could run through that line very well.

I hope we're done running off quality linemen. If we can keep the guys we just recruited around the future is looking bright.

Agreed

[Leroy Lizard]

Your argument seems to be since a fullback named Owen Schmitt burned OU a few years ago, Matt Clapp should obviously burn BYU. Sorry, but I don't see Owen Schmitt on the OU roster.


It wouldn't have mattered who was the fullback. We got caught completely with our pants down on that play. Schmitt didn't have to juke anyone.


Now that I've destroyed your argument, get the fullback thing out of your mind.

Bad form to claim victory in an argument.



Is it your position that Kevin Wilson saw how a fullback from WV burned OU so he was trying to copy them, and he was TESTING out whether or not OU could burn another team with a fullback?

Do you know for a fact that this play was not tested in practice? And if it was, that it was not successful?

Most likely they practiced this play in practice and based on what happened, figured the play had a good chance of success. They didn't draw this play up on the spur of the moment.


Again, I'm not an offensive coordinator, but I can recognize things that need to be done to win against a good team.

Yes, in hindsight.

[oudavid1]

Blocking, Blocking, Blocking. If your good at the first 3 things i listed, its hard to slow you down.

[Sooner-N-KS]

I just read the transcript from Stoops' spring practice presser today. I was glad to see that he spoke very highly on the OL today. He took the opportunity at the same time last year to come down on them. Today he said the OL was one of their best groups.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Yes, in hindsight.

Yes, in hindsight!!!! I can recognize in hindsight that Kevin Wilson did a very poor job.....especially against BYU. That's what I've been saying.

[Leroy Lizard]

I can recognize in hindsight that Kevin Wilson did a very poor job.....especially against BYU.

Based on what expertise?

[BoulderSooner79]

Unfortunately, we also have a history of weak offensive lines. Remember 2005? Not even AD could run through that line very well.

I hope we're done running off quality linemen. If we can keep the guys we just recruited around the future is looking bright.

2005 was another rebuilding year - except across the board and not just on offense. I think I see where you're coming from. You wear those crimson glasses that believe that the OU jersey is a magical thing and our kids just need to pull it on to be great. We don't have down years or rebuilding years and if we do, it 's the coaches fault. Personally, I think watching how we handle the tough years is part of the total entertainment package. Might as well, because it's going to happen.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Sure, it's gonna happen. But I'm not entertained by it.

[Collier11]

For the record, Matt Clapp ran a 4.64 today at pro day so maybe there was a better chance of him breaking a long run than you are willing to admit

[Sooner-N-KS]

For the record, Matt Clapp ran a 4.64 today at pro day so maybe there was a better chance of him breaking a long run than you are willing to admit

When has Matt Clapp ever broken a long run against any first team defense?

If the new standard for breaking a long one is running a 4.64 there are plenty more guys on the team that should take it to the house before he does. How many 4.5 guys are on the bench so Clapp could play RB?

Even if Clapp had picked up 7 yards and a first down I would still think it was a stupid call. Sometimes stupid calls work......but they are still stupid because they are well against the odds. If we were going to run we should have at least had Murray in the game.

Instead of just focusing on the stupidity of giving Clapp the ball on 3rd & 6, maybe we should ask why Clapp was in for the entire series (3 and out) at all? Some would want to say that we gave it to Clapp on 3rd down because they wouldn't expect it, but why was he in for 1st & 2nd downs? What kind of threat is he? Sam threw on 1st & 2nd, and the defense didn't need to worry about a running threat.

Why would anyone think it's a smart thing to have Clapp in at running back early in the 2nd quarter of a tough game while Brown, Murray, Calhoun, Miller and Madu are on the bench? It's stupid!!!

[Sooner-N-KS]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=174555

Last year Clapp had one carry for 1 yard! If Wilson wasn't testing Clapp out then why didn't he get more carries throughout the year?

For his career he had 8 carries for 22 yards.

As I look up his stats I'm stunned to see he didn't even have a catch last year. I thought he had at least a couple.

He was a heck of a blocker when he didn't get caught holding.

[Collier11]

well there is alot more evidence on KWs side than yours...you can whine and gripe all you want but you dont know any of the specifics that went into making that call and you dont know how any of those guys practiced all week.

maybe they ran it in practice and it worked really well, maybe you need to quit being so stubborn and just admit that while you are entitled to your opinion, you have no facts to back up the fact that you say it was a stupid call

[Sooner-N-KS]

well there is alot more evidence on KWs side than yours...you can whine and gripe all you want but you dont know any of the specifics that went into making that call and you dont know how any of those guys practiced all week.

maybe they ran it in practice and it worked really well, maybe you need to quit being so stubborn and just admit that while you are entitled to your opinion, you have no facts to back up the fact that you say it was a stupid call

Career stats

Chris Brown - 627 for 2,923 yards

Demarco Murray - 477 for 2,471 yards

Mossis Madu - 160 for 724 yards

Matt Clapp - 8 for 22 yards



Those are the only stats necessary to prove it was stupid to have Clapp in the game instead of Murray, Brown and Madu.


Albert Young is a running back for the Minnesota Vikings. Would their offensive coordinator be smart to have him in for a series at running back in a close game while AD and Chester Taylor are on the bench?

[Sooner-N-KS]

Can anyone tell me why it was smart to have Clapp in at RB for an entire 3 and out while Murray, Brown, Madu, Calhoun and Miller were on the bench?

If it was smart, why didn't it ever happen again?

[Collier11]

you are ridiculous in your stubbornness

[goingoneight]

Can anyone tell me why it was smart to have Clapp in at RB for an entire 3 and out while Murray, Brown, Madu, Calhoun and Miller were on the bench?

If it was smart, why didn't it ever happen again?

You mean the running game? Because it pretty much sucked all year long, no matter who was in there or how "smart" a playcall came down from up high. Methinks the OL is to blame, but what do I know? Just facts.

[Leroy Lizard]

Albert Young is a running back for the Minnesota Vikings. Would their offensive coordinator be smart to have him in for a series at running back in a close game while AD and Chester Taylor are on the bench?

Depends on the reason. Obviously they would have had him in there for a reason. Why not find out first, rather than just assuming you know the reason.

[Curly Bill]

well there is alot more evidence on KWs side than yours...you can whine and gripe all you want but you dont know any of the specifics that went into making that call and you dont know how any of those guys practiced all week.

maybe they ran it in practice and it worked really well, maybe you need to quit being so stubborn and just admit that while you are entitled to your opinion, you have no facts to back up the fact that you say it was a stupid call

Seriously? :rolleyes:

You're trying way too hard now.

[Collier11]

so they dont try different plays out in practice against the scout team to see what might work best, I thought that was common knowledge, maybe you arent trying hard enough

[Curly Bill]

A play that worked well against the scout team?

There's a reason they're on the scout team, all plays work well against them.

[Curly Bill]

Besides that, any dumas that would even contemplate giving Matt Clapp the ball is indeed that -- a dumas!

[Collier11]

A play that worked well against the scout team?

There's a reason they're on the scout team, all plays work well against them.

you said you used to coach offense, if that is the case then you should know as anyone who knows a flip about football would know that the coaches put together a game plan and then run it against the scout team. Obviously that play was in the gameplan and obviously he thought it had a shot to work.

[Curly Bill]

you said you used to coach offense, if that is the case then you should know as anyone who knows a flip about football would know that the coaches put together a game plan and then run it against the scout team. Obviously that play was in the gameplan and obviously he thought it had a shot to work.


Yeah, it was pure genius...


...obviously. :O

[Collier11]

name me one off coord who has called an entire game without making a call that didnt work...im waiting

[Salt City Sooner]

Lemme see.....

Chuck Long gets ripped to shreds due to his not breaking tendencies in his playcalling to the point that the opposing team is reportedly calling out the play before it's run.

Kevin Wilson gets ripped to shreds due to his calling a play that breaks tendency so much that even the fanbase who watches his every move, every game, wasn't expecting it.

Got it.

As I've said a million times, the 2 most popular people on the OU football team year in & year out are A) a struggling player's backup, & B) a first year offensive coordinator who has any semblance of success. Wash, rinse, repeat (for 30 years in my particular case).

[Collier11]

certain fans need something to gripe about at all times

[gaylordfan1]

Lemme see.....

Chuck Long gets ripped to shreds due to his not breaking tendencies in his playcalling to the point that the opposing team is reportedly calling out the play before it's run.

Kevin Wilson gets ripped to shreds due to his calling a play that breaks tendency so much that even the fanbase who watches his every move, every game, wasn't expecting it.

Got it.

As I've said a million times, the 2 most popular people on the OU football team year in & year out are A) a struggling player's backup, & B) a first year offensive coordinator who has any semblance of success. Wash, rinse, repeat (for 30 years in my particular case).


Wow, couldn't have been said any better!

[Curly Bill]

Certain fans need to love up to the coaching staff. :D

I have a feeling that if KW and BV were giving away free hugs some of you fellers would get in line twice.

Some of you I think would try to slip em the tongue. :eek:

[Collier11]

yea cus thats what we are doing, lovin them up...still waiting for you to show me a coord who hasnt called a play that didnt work

[Sooner-N-KS]

name me one off coord who has called an entire game without making a call that didnt work...im waiting

I don't think anyone expects perfection. We do expect greatness.

We were one quarter into the 2009 season, and we have Clapp in at running back. That is not smart!

Why were we not trying to establish our run game with Murray and Brown? In the first quarter he also played Calhoun and Madu. OK, I don't think that was the best thing in the world when you're trying to start the season out right, but at least they are established running backs.

Tell me, would it have been smart to take Trent Williams out of the game so we could play Brandon Crow at left tackle? Should we have taken Broyles out so we could play Dom Franks at slot? Why do we not have our best players in the game when the game is being challenged?

[Sooner-N-KS]

yea cus thats what we are doing, lovin them up...still waiting for you to show me a coord who hasnt called a play that didnt work

It's not about a play that didn't work. If he gave the ball to Murray or Brown on 3rd & 6 we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Would you question KW if he had Nimmo come in to give Bradford a rest in the 2nd quarter of the BYU game?

[Collier11]

subbing o-linemen and rbs are completely diff

[Leroy Lizard]

There's a reason they're on the scout team, all plays work well against them.

If I was an OC (and I'm not), I wouldn't worry about whether the play gained yardage, but rather how the defense reacted. If the play works because the RB broke two tackles, that is much different than if a WR receiver is wide open because of a play fake.

However OC's judge the worthiness of a play, I am sure KW did it. Again, he doesn't just draw these plays up on a whim.

Do we know for a fact that it was KW that told Clapp to go in?


I have a feeling that if KW and BV were giving away free hugs some of you fellers would get in line twice.

Some of you I think would try to slip em the tongue.

Criminy, it's not like he has not had success! I can understand such juvenile responses if we were here defending John Blake.

In 1983, you would have been calling for Switzer's head, chiming all the time that he was an idiot for relying on the triple option and that any idiot could see that it was obsolete. And you would have called any Switzer supporter a sunshine pumper.

If you want to comment on KW, talk about something you understand, like the shine on his shoes.

[Leroy Lizard]

Tell me, would it have been smart to take Trent Williams out of the game so we could play Brandon Crow at left tackle? Should we have taken Broyles out so we could play Dom Franks at slot? Why do we not have our best players in the game when the game is being challenged?

What's Switzer doing putting in John Green? This is the GAME OF THE CENTURY and he has a third-stringer playing running back in there!! What an idiot!!

[Sooner-N-KS]

If I was an OC (and I'm not), I wouldn't worry about whether the play gained yardage, but rather how the defense reacted. If the play works because the RB broke two tackles, that is much different than if a WR receiver is wide open because of a play fake.

However OC's judge the worthiness of a play, I am sure KW did it. Again, he doesn't just draw these plays up on a whim.

Do we know for a fact that it was KW that told Clapp to go in?



No, we don't know that Gundy didn't send him in. But KW is in charge of the offense. In the first quarter somebody sent in Brown, Murray, Calhoun and Madu. That's an awful lot when you are trying to get established in the first quarter of the season. But then Clapp goes in for the first series of the 2nd quarter. If it wasn't KW's plan then he should have said: What in the heck are you guys doing down there? Give me a running back to work with here!

It's not like Clapp was put in for that play. He had already been in for two plays when KW called the run on 3rd & 6.

I also understand what you are saying about judging how the plays work. What I've been saying is that we should at least have a running back in the game instead of a full back pretending to be a running back.

Obviously KW judged the idea of Clapp running the ball as a bad one since it was Clapp's only carry of the year. It's just a shame that he had to waste a series in a close game we lost instead of testing it out the next week against Idaho St.

[Sooner-N-KS]

What's Switzer doing putting in John Green? This is the GAME OF THE CENTURY and he has a third-stringer playing running back in there!! What an idiot!!

I can't recall the situation, but in the case we're talking about I'm not blaming Stoops. Why bring Switzer into it? Still, you are talking about a 3rd string running back. I'm talking about having 5 qualified running backs on the bench while we're running with a fullback pretending to be a running back. If it were Calhoun (as 3rd string RB) in the game we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[C&CDean]

Jeezus you guys like to rehash crappy history and then beat it to death.

Wilson is a fine OC/coach who ranks amongst the top 5 in the country. Be happy we've got him. Now if we could just get some of the knuckleheads to stop whiffing on blocks, stop false-starting, play their assignment, not drop perfect passes, not run the wrong routes, and remember the galdamned play we'd be pretty damn good. With all those mistakes and injuries last year and still being in every game with a legitimate shot to win (except at Lubbock) speaks pretty highly of Wilson's ability to coach. Anybody who sees it otherwise is a dumbass who doesn't have a clue about football. Simple. As. That.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Wilson is a fine OC/coach who ranks amongst the top 5 in the country. Be happy we've got him. Now if we could just get some of the knuckleheads to stop whiffing on blocks, stop false-starting, play their assignment, not drop perfect passes, not run the wrong routes, and remember the galdamned play we'd be pretty damn good.

Hmmmmmmmm...........I wonder if there are any offensive coordinators that know how to teach their players to block without holding or wiffing, not move until the ball is snapped, learn where they are supposed to go on a play, run the right routes and catch a ball...........oh, yeah, and a coach that will play one of his 5 running backs instead of a fullback when the game is on the line?

[gaylordfan1]

So, its the coaches responsibility to MAKE the players not hold? Your point is well taken, but when do these players not take accountability for their actions? Holding, whiffing, and knowing where to go after the ball is snapped is on the player and not the coach. You can't tell me any D 1 player isn't taught from day one their responsibilities. These kids are prepped immensely before each game. And you are beating a dead hoarse with this fullback stuff. Your opinion has been well stated throughout this thread.

[goingoneight]

Hmmmmmmmm...........I wonder if there are any offensive coordinators that know how to teach their players to block without holding or wiffing, not move until the ball is snapped, learn where they are supposed to go on a play, run the right routes and catch a ball...........oh, yeah, and a coach that will play one of his 5 running backs instead of a fullback when the game is on the line?

You know those guys who are so retardiculously wrong that they don't get it even when Dean slaps the shat out of 'em with a common sense stick?

[gaylordfan1]

Fullbacks were sooooo last year.....

[Sooner-N-KS]

So, its the coaches responsibility to MAKE the players not hold? Your point is well taken, but when do these players not take accountability for their actions? Holding, whiffing, and knowing where to go after the ball is snapped is on the player and not the coach. You can't tell me any D 1 player isn't taught from day one their responsibilities. These kids are prepped immensely before each game. And you are beating a dead hoarse with this fullback stuff. Your opinion has been well stated throughout this thread.

Yes, the coaches are responsible for how they play. They choose the guys they want to recruit. It's their job to coach them to do the things they are supposed to do. If they aren't learning what they are being coached they shouldn't be in the game. Corey Brandon shouldn't have played that much in the BYU game with all of his penalties. I understand your thinking that it's the player's responsibility, and it is. But there is usually retribution from the coaches if they aren't learning those things properly.

I was beating a dead horse because for the life of me I can't understand how some people think it's OK to be playing a fullback at RB in a close game while there are 5 pretty darn good running backs on the sideline.


Look, I think KW is an OK coach, but I don't think he's a great coach. I don't think he's the guy that is going to take us to #8. He could have been that guy in the 2008 season.

In my opinion, the sign of a good coach is when he gets his players to play above their ability. Stoops, Mangino, Venables/Stoops had their guys playing above their abilities in 2000. The OU offense definitely didn't play above their abilities in 2009. I think the 2008 offense played up to their abilities, but they were unable to play above their abilities against Texas and Florida.

KW had his bad moments throughout the year, but I do think he improved things at the end of the year. But like someone else said in this thread he has his moments where he starts pounding that square peg trying to get it into the round hole, and he's not going to stop until it goes in. BYU was one of those times.

[texaspokieokie]

funny me, i've always thought fullbacks were running backs. most everywhere besides OU. i can't understand why the fullbacks don't get to run te ball more.

[SoonerAtKU]

Uh, because we generally have players better suited to that task? The FB under Stoops has been a blocking back that can catch a swing pass now and again. That's what he wants. It's a different offense, and it's all about getting the ball to talented people in space. It's hard to find a guy who can block as well as needed who can also create his own space running from behind center. But, if you create some misdirection and have him block down, then peel off for a swing pass, then you catch someone napping and gain 15 yards before anyone notices.

[texaspokieokie]

there's a surprise factor, plus most fullbacks have some experience running,
if only in hi school.

if the fullback NEVER runs the ball, it's one less thing for the opposing defense to worry about.

[texaspokieokie]

KU
i really appreciate your explaining to me the function of a fullback in the Stoops's system.

[SoonerAtKU]

The one thing I'll say is that I never understood how the fling sweep worked against Texas in 2004. We faked to Runnels and then ran the toss to Peterson going the other way. How in the hell does ANYONE fall for that when Runnels was in no way going to get that ball at any point? Who was the DC for Texas that year?

To your point, Fullback sized college players didn't have to create space or make people miss in high school. They broke tackles, they punished defenders, and they intimidated their way to yards. Their experience running doesn't exactly translate to what they'd need to do at the next level. As to the surprise factor, what exactly do you hope to gain by surprising a defense by running a slower, bulkier RB into their line? What plays do you set up by giving up those attempts? It made 100% sense for wishbone teams to do it, because you had to keep the defense in the center of the field to create matchups on the outside. Not to mention, you have to force the DEs and LBs to read another player, delaying his read on the keep/pitch option.

[Leroy Lizard]

I can't recall the situation, but in the case we're talking about I'm not blaming Stoops. Why bring Switzer into it? Still, you are talking about a 3rd string running back. I'm talking about having 5 qualified running backs on the bench while we're running with a fullback pretending to be a running back. If it were Calhoun (as 3rd string RB) in the game we wouldn't be having this conversation.

John Green was below Damon Stell and Eric Mitchell on the depth chart, so playing him had to appear odd.

To this day, playing John Green is considered a brilliant move by Switzer. If the play had been stuffed, Sooner fans all over would have criticized the decision.

And isn't it strange how the decision to play Green is considered the head coach's decision, but the decision to play Clapp the offensive coordinator's.


Hmmmmmmmm...........I wonder if there are any offensive coordinators that know how to teach their players to block without holding or wiffing, not move until the ball is snapped, learn where they are supposed to go on a play, run the right routes and catch a ball...........oh, yeah, and a coach that will play one of his 5 running backs instead of a fullback when the game is on the line?

Is KW the only coach we have on this team?


To your point, Fullback sized college players didn't have to create space or make people miss in high school. They broke tackles, they punished defenders, and they intimidated their way to yards. Their experience running doesn't exactly translate to what they'd need to do at the next level. As to the surprise factor, what exactly do you hope to gain by surprising a defense by running a slower, bulkier RB into their line?

It was 3rd and 6. KW most likely has a list of plays that were reasonably effective on 3rd and 6 in practice and the handoff to Clapp must have been one of them. So he ran it.

Have we established that it was KW that put Clapp in the game?

He called probably 80 plays in that game. We found a handful we don't like. Sheeesh!!

[Collier11]

well Cale Gundy is the RBs coach and determines the player rotation

[Sooner-N-KS]

there's a surprise factor, plus most fullbacks have some experience running,
if only in hi school.

if the fullback NEVER runs the ball, it's one less thing for the opposing defense to worry about.


Your point is well taken. However, Clapp was not playing fullback. He was playing running back. In order to have a fullback you also have to have a running back in the game. For the series in question Clapp was the only guy in the backfield. Part of the point trying to be made is he was playing out of his position. The call wasn't to hand the ball off to the fullback. The call was to hand the ball to the running back........Matt Clapp. Why was Clapp in at running back when there were 5 other guys much more talented at running the ball standing on the sideline?

[Sooner-N-KS]

Is KW the only coach we have on this team?



It was 3rd and 6. KW most likely has a list of plays that were reasonably effective on 3rd and 6 in practice and the handoff to Clapp must have been one of them. So he ran it.

Have we established that it was KW that put Clapp in the game?

He called probably 80 plays in that game. We found a handful we don't like. Sheeesh!!



well Cale Gundy is the RBs coach and determines the player rotation

No, KW is not the only coach on the team, but he is responsible for his offensive coaches.

If KW has a list of plays that are effective for 3rd & 6, and one of those plays is hand the ball off to Matt Clapp..........he's a worse coach than I thought.


No, we don't know if KW wanted Clapp in the game or if Gundy just put him in. But again, KW is the boss. It was no secret that Clapp was in at running back on 1st & 2nd downs. All KW had to do was get on his radio and ask, "What in the he77 are you doing down there, Gundy? I'm trying to get a first down here and win this game. Give me a running back I can work with!" Instead he decided to give the ball to Clapp to see what would happen.

[C&CDean]

WARNING!!

If anyone types anything close to "who the **** hands off to a fullback on 3rd and 6" one more time they will be bitch slapped like a no-account bitchy McBitchenstein.

[Jello Biafra]

WARNING!!

bitchy McBitchenstein.

i love that band!

[Leroy Lizard]

No, KW is not the only coach on the team, but he is responsible for his offensive coaches.

KW doesn't hire the position coaches. KW doesn't fire them.

Besides, isn't Stoops responsible for all coaches? Why aren't we going after him instead?


If KW has a list of plays that are effective for 3rd & 6, and one of those plays is hand the ball off to Matt Clapp..........he's a worse coach than I thought.

For the umpteenth time, KW doesn't draw these plays up on a whim. He must have had good reason to think it might work. With his past success, I am willing to cut him slack on some plays here and there.

And don't rule out the possibility that the play may have resulted from a communication breakdown. Can you rule that out?

[Collier11]

He just knows everything, lets face it

[BoulderSooner79]

He just knows everything, lets face it

This is clearly true; and yet he has no say in KW's employment status. What's up with that?

[Collier11]

weird

[Curly Bill]

hug, hug, kiss, kiss.

You boys with your man crushes are so cute.

[Leroy Lizard]

I support KW and respect his expertise. That doesn't make me Roy Ashburn.

C'mon Curly, you can do better than that.

[Collier11]

thats all Curly has, you either think Venables and KW are not worthy of coaching at OU or you suck their azz...he is simple minded :D

[oudavid1]

BTW this is me and some friends with the man in question. As well as BV.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/oudavid1/VenablesAndWilsonWebEdit.jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

It's good that you covered your identities. We wouldn't want Curly Bill outing you.

[oudavid1]

It's good that you covered your identities. We wouldn't want Curly Bill outing you.

That and there's a lot of pervs on soonerfans.