Now that China is saying "no mas"

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

It's asking too much to stop the spending, so lookit what's next: http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com/2010/02/us-treasury-wants-to-get-ahold-of-your.html

[yermom]

um, yeah **** that

i'd rather them just kill the tax break on 401(k)s

[Chuck Bao]

Good lord. Where do you go to dig up garbage like that? There are so many ridiculous things in that that it isn't worth mentioning.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Good lord. Where do you go to dig up garbage like that? There are so many ridiculous things in that that it isn't worth mentioning.Looking forward to it, are ya?

[King Barry's Back]

Damn them! That's going to far. And not just for me.

If they try to push forward on taking over retirement accounts (and this is not the first time I have heard of this), they will face open discontent the likes of which they have neither seen nor heard.

Please the GOP take over the Congress...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Damn them! That's going to far. And not just for me.

If they try to push forward on taking over retirement accounts (and this is not the first time I have heard of this), they will face open discontent the likes of which they have neither seen nor heard.

Please the GOP take over the Congress...I'm thinking next-up is still going to be the reconciliation move with Socialized Med. A move on retirement accounts, like discussed in the link, would prolly be even more unsettling than the Obamacare thing.

[Chuck Bao]

I have spent my morning trying to find additional information. It appears to me that it is scaremongering pure and simple by Newt Gingrich and others.

Someone please post a credible news source on the subject.

It is a very complicated issue and one that I readily admit that I do not understand. With that being said, I can see so many holes in that Newt Gingrich opinion piece and his contention that Obama is coming after your retirement funds.

Obviously, there is greater security in annuities than stock market investments. I am not sure I would like mandatory participation in Guaranteed Retirement Accounts, but it certainly isn't a bad thing for Americans to save more, especially given our aging population.

According to this ABC article, the GRAs would not replace Social Security but supplement the current system.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/PersonalFinance/story?id=6122417&page=1

There was a more current (Jan 8) BusinessWeek article on the issue, but it was deleted from the BusinessWeek website. I am not sure of the reason unless it contained some erroneous information. It is still available on Google cache search.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:FwVnCuIkxRsJ:www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-08/americans-oppose-initiatives-limiting-401-k-choices-ici-says.html+%3ca%20href=

There is a more recent BusinessWeek article (Feb 20) that explains the ongoing discussion, especially in regard to insurance companies that sell annuities.

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-KXJQPS1A74FK-20

Now, I can understand why a lot of people would be very skeptical of any retirement scheme involving the government. I can also understand why a lot of people would also be skeptical of corporate managed pension funds, lack of being able to transfer pension to new employer, etc.

There are a lot of very important issues to consider and, yes, reasons to fight for keeping your retirement funds safe and earning a decent return.

However, trying to tie this discussion with the fact that China sold down some US treasuries earlier this week is just clouding the issue and designed to scare people.

[Curly Bill]

I have spent my morning trying to find additional information. It appears to me that it is scaremongering pure and simple by Newt Gingrich and others.

Someone please post a credible news source on the subject.

It is a very complicated issue and one that I readily admit that I do not understand. With that being said, I can see so many holes in that Newt Gingrich opinion piece and his contention that Obama is coming after your retirement funds.

Obviously, there is greater security in annuities than stock market investments. I am not sure I would like mandatory participation in Guaranteed Retirement Accounts, but it certainly isn't a bad thing for Americans to save more, especially given our aging population.



It might be more enticing to save more if we weren't taxed on the interest we earn on said savings. I mean really, tax us when we make the money, then tax us again on it if we dare to save some and earn a little interest? :mad:

[Chuck Bao]

It might be more enticing to save more if we weren't taxed on the interest we earn on said savings. I mean really, tax us when we make the money, then tax us again on it if we dare to save some and earn a little interest? :mad:

I agree 100% with that, Curly Bill. The government would also help boost savings as well as new investment by scrapping the capital gains tax.

[OUHOMER]

cash in a fruit jar in the back yard.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I agree 100% with that, Curly Bill. The government would also help boost savings as well as new investment by scrapping the capital gains tax.

The problem that arises with that is that if you scrap it a priveledged few will turn it to their advantage and make millions on investments in real estate and the like, live off of it tax free, and then also not pay any taxes on the growing wealth from having it gaining interest in the bank.

The Capital Gains argument is silly unless you draw a line somewhere. Yeah, grandpa probably shouldn't be taxed on his life savings as a hard working SOB who never made more than 40 grand a year, but Bill Gates shouldn't get to keep his money in a bank, collect a mil a year on interest, and never pay a cent on those earnings either. He's not getting taxed twice for the same money, he's getting taxed on the further profit he gained off the previously taxed profits.

So, just draw a line somewhere and say you can collext x amount of interest tax free in retirement savings, but whatever money over x amount that Oprah is making in her interest bearing checking account is taxable.

I just don't see why this has to be complicated or why middle and lower class people insist on getting rid of it altogether in some weird hope that someday they'll have a billion in the bank.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Chuck, the fact that China has openly withdrawn some financial support, and the appearance that the Obama administration doesn't want to cut back on its reckless spending, are signs that they are looking for new ways to collect moolah. The govt. mandate on savings possibility has been brought up here before, I know.

[Chuck Bao]

China has not openly withdrawn some financial support. Yeah, China likes to make noises. I wouldn't doubt that part of their sell-off earlier this week was just China showing displeasure with Obama for agreeing to meet with the Dalai Lama. They'll get over it.

Actually on Thursday, the dollar rose to a nine-month high against the euro and a one-month high against the yen. The recent worries about Greece and some other European countries reminded everyone that the dollar and US treasuries are still the safe haven for international funds. 2-year treasurys yield only 0.92% and the 10-year note 3.8%.

Besides that, you worry too much!

[StoopTroup]

If Newt Gingrich is warning about it....it must be true.

Newt almost saved the World a decade ago.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

China has not openly withdrawn some financial support. Yeah, China likes to make noises. I wouldn't doubt that part of their sell-off earlier this week was just China showing displeasure with Obama for agreeing to meet with the Dalai Lama. They'll get over it.

Actually on Thursday, the dollar rose to a nine-month high against the euro and a one-month high against the yen. The recent worries about Greece and some other European countries reminded everyone that the dollar and US treasuries are still the safe haven for international funds. 2-year treasurys yield only 0.92% and the 10-year note 3.8%.

Besides that, you worry too much!You have entirely too much confidence in democrats.

[StoopTroup]

You have entirely too much confidence in democrats.

As do you an any politician.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

cash in a fruit jar in the back yard.

Would have earned you a better return over the last 10 years than investing in the Dow.

Don't we already have a mandatory retirement ponzi scheme called Social Security with a $40 trillion unfunded liability?

[tommieharris91]

Don't we already have a mandatory retirement ponzi scheme called Social Security with a $40 trillion unfunded liability?

Yep. Social Security has outlived it's usefulness by at least 30 yrs, probably more.

[yermom]

Would have earned you a better return over the last 10 years than investing in the Dow.

Don't we already have a mandatory retirement ponzi scheme called Social Security with a $40 trillion unfunded liability?

that's pretty much what i was thinking

[badger]

Yep. Social Security has outlived it's usefulness by at least 30 yrs, probably more.

My mom likes to tell me to think of it as a "gift to my grandparents." She also used to like to say that "dinner" would be my payment after a summer day wasted on nothing but sweaty, grueling yardwork. Mom always had a funny way of telling us kids how we were gonna get screwed outta paychecks.

[tommieharris91]

My mom likes to tell me to think of it as a "gift to my grandparents." She also used to like to say that "dinner" would be my payment after a summer day wasted on nothing but sweaty, grueling yardwork. Mom always had a funny way of telling us kids how we were gonna get screwed outta paychecks.

Depending on how old your grandparents are, they might not receive Soc. Sec. benefits. My parents are in their 50s and they don't plan on seeing and Soc. Sec benefits.

[jkjsooner]

The Capital Gains argument is silly unless you draw a line somewhere.

I agree. I would love to see a certain percent (say 3%) be removed as it is just a recovery of the normal rate of inflation.

If my meager non-retirement savings go up by 3%, I view that as simply treading water.

[Okla-homey]

gold in a fruit jar in the back yard.

fixed it for ya!

[Chuck Bao]

I was having this discussion with my mom over the weekend and she was saying how much she loves Glen Beck. I threatened to disown her and when they idle threat didn't work, I was left with only the prospect of throwing my cell phone on the ground and stomping on it. That'll teach her.

She was saying that when the **** hits the fan (not her words, but mine) that all of her family voted to come live with her. She has cattle and a big garden and there are wild pigs and turkey and deer in our north pasture.

Then my mom was asking me where to buy gold. I was surprised by this and asked her if she meant gold futures contracts and I could help her out there with advice and stuff. No, she wants the real thing and lots of it.

Is it that bad there now? It is almost like my mom has gone all Wolverines Den mother or something.

[SoonerInKCMO]

It's not that bad here now... but lots of folks (including a few people in my family) seem to want to believe it is and they surround themselves with like minded people and they kind of feed off of each other's fears. Several people in my extended family are making their own soap, weaving fabric, growing every veggie imaginable, etc. Me? I'm just going to work every day hoping people get on the clean, abundant, American natural gas bandwagon.

BTW - I still can't figure out why people want to hoard gold. Sure, it's ductile, malleable, conductive and doesn't tarnish... it's a hunk of metal. Little intrinsic worth - unlike land, food or tools for using the former to make the latter. :confused:

[SoonerInKCMO]

Also - while the hell are Chinese speakin' Messican??

[tommieharris91]

It's not that bad here now... but lots of folks (including a few people in my family) seem to want to believe it is and they surround themselves with like minded people and they kind of feed off of each other's fears. Several people in my extended family are making their own soap, weaving fabric, growing every veggie imaginable, etc. Me? I'm just going to work every day hoping people get on the clean, abundant, American natural gas bandwagon.

BTW - I still can't figure out why people want to hoard gold. Sure, it's ductile, malleable, conductive and doesn't tarnish... it's a hunk of metal. Little intrinsic worth - unlike land, food or tools for using the former to make the latter. :confused:

This.

I personally think there's a gold bubble forming though. A lot of people are advertising it, and it will come crashing down when the Fed raises rates.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I was having this discussion with my mom over the weekend and she was saying how much she loves Glen Beck. I threatened to disown her and when they idle threat didn't work, I was left with only the prospect of throwing my cell phone on the ground and stomping on it. That'll teach her.

She was saying that when the **** hits the fan (not her words, but mine) that all of her family voted to come live with her. She has cattle and a big garden and there are wild pigs and turkey and deer in our north pasture.

Then my mom was asking me where to buy gold. I was surprised by this and asked her if she meant gold futures contracts and I could help her out there with advice and stuff. No, she wants the real thing and lots of it.

Is it that bad there now? It is almost like my mom has gone all Wolverines Den mother or something.What's left of the private sector is sitting on its hands. Not investing, not hiring, etc., until there are signs of a positive environment for growth, IMHO.

[sooner n houston]

If one has the money, gold is a great investment/safe guard right now. I agree with those who are predicting inflation is going to go wild in the next year or so. When the govt is producing money like it is free paper, and spending it wildly too, it will become free paper soon. That is where we are headed.
For those of you not old enough to remember, the 70's were hell. Sure we got raises of 10% or so each year but prices were going up on everything. Every time you went to the grocery store everything in it had gone up since the last time. It was very frustrating.
Real estate and gold are the two ways you can have a hedge against inflation, imho.

[OklahomaTuba]

I'm just going to work every day hoping people get on the clean, abundant, American natural gas bandwagon.

AMEN!!

It's only a matter of time at this point.

[yermom]

Also - while the hell are Chinese speakin' Messican??

and why aren't you speaking English? :confused:

:D

[jkjsooner]

Real estate and gold are the two ways you can have a hedge against inflation, imho.

How has that RE hedge been doing for you lately?

I understand the RE and gold are good hedges. They are both tangible physical assets. But, they are both prone to their own bubbles so before you simply buy it to fight inflation, you need to question whether it is already in a bubble.

[yermom]

i wish i would have bought some gold at $600 an oz...

honestly, i'm kinda surprised that gold isn't higher, but i'm no economist

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I don't think we're going to see much inflationary pressure over the next couple of years just because growth is going to be so anemic. Our economy is 2/3 consumer spending and the consumer is dead, as evidenced by another dismal consumer confidence report out today.

I don't know about you folks, but I'm looking at socking away as much money as I can right now. I've managed to hold onto a job thus far but I still have no confidence that I'll have this job 6 months from now. That doesn't lead me to want to go out and buy a car or tv set.

[Chuck Bao]

I don't think we're going to see much inflationary pressure over the next couple of years just because growth is going to be so anemic. Our economy is 2/3 consumer spending and the consumer is dead, as evidenced by another dismal consumer confidence report out today.

I don't know about you folks, but I'm looking at socking away as much money as I can right now. I've managed to hold onto a job thus far but I still have no confidence that I'll have this job 6 months from now. That doesn't lead me to want to go out and buy a car or tv set.

I agree. However, I don't think that anyone is predicting demand-pull inflation but rather a substantially weakening dollar and commodity prices that are dollar denominated will substantially rise.

I think jkjsooner is right about considering the bubble. But, I also think that gold may be a good hedge to hold onto. Asian funds are not a bad way to go either since gloabl economic growth is pretty much being driven within the region. .