Big XII Options

[PLaw]

Should a school secede from the league, one option for the Big XII would be to go after the Air Force Academy. Besides BYU, I think the AFA would have the largest national appeal.

Boomer

[King Barry's Back]

AFA brings almost nothing to the Big XII table that I could see -- small fan base, not a lot of money, no TV presence.

They MIGHT help keep the Big XII on Denver TVs if Colorado bolted, but I doubt it would do much to make that up.

Right now, I'm thinking if we lose somebody, we should go after....


Wait for it...


Florida State.

Get us into one of the biggest college sports hotbeds in the world in Florida. Big TV markets in Miami, Tampa/St Pete, Jacksonville, etc. They are in the panhandle of Florida and are almost as close to Oklahoma as they are to Miami.

And Tallahassee would be a great trip for the old Big XII fans to take from time to time. Imagine leaving Omaha for the beach in late October. Very nice.

Imagine leaving Omaha during basketball season. Even nicer.

I'm just thinking that attracting/joining a Pac 10 or SEC team is probably out of the question for us -- and FSU looks like a darn fine ACC school for our purposes.

Anybody think that's a possibility?

[goingoneight]

Whatever happened to geographic sense? Why doesn't USC just join the BIG East?

I'm not ripping on you, KBB. This whole thing started with Tejas to the PAC 10 or BIG10/11.

[StoopTroup]

Every day that goes by right now is another day that +exas, colrado or mizzou's bluff is exposed.

The best they could hope for is a situation where leaving would hurt their pocket books for more than one season and I call BS on that happening. If it does happen....the folks who pushed it won't be around long after making such a stupid mistake.

[KantoSooner]

I still don't get why our tv deal is so much inferior to the SEC or Pac10 or Big 10. I realize that the tv markets are smaller in our zone, but that much smaller? Does anyone possess the market numbers (either precise of ballpark, I'm just trying to understand, not make a court case).
It seems like our conference has not been proactive or aggressive in marketing itself. But maybe I just don't understand the relative strengths. Edjumakate me.

[WA. Sooner]

SEC and Big 10 may have a better tv deal but the pact ten does NOT

[PLaw]

AFA brings almost nothing to the Big XII table that I could see -- small fan base, not a lot of money, no TV presence.

They MIGHT help keep the Big XII on Denver TVs if Colorado bolted, but I doubt it would do much to make that up.


Hmmm, I would think that a service academy would have a significant fan base - I mean think of the number of alumni of the USAF??

Boomer

[soonervegas]

Every day that goes by right now is another day that +exas, colrado or mizzou's bluff is exposed.

The best they could hope for is a situation where leaving would hurt their pocket books for more than one season and I call BS on that happening. If it does happen....the folks who pushed it won't be around long after making such a stupid mistake.

I think one of them isn't a bluff(aloes).

[Sabanball]

I think TCU, Houston, Tulane, or Arkansas would be some very good options.

[Collier11]

Depends on who we are replacing, if it is texas(highly unlikely) we need to bring in the biggest dog possible, if it is colorado or missouri then an Air Force or someone like that would be good

[yermom]

Arkansas does seem like a natural choice

[silverwheels]

The problem is getting Arkansas to leave the money they're making in the SEC, plus we already have OSU and A&M for fanbases who have gigantic inferiority complexes towards Oklahoma and Texas. TCU, Houston, and Tulane wouldn't add much, either, at least as far as TV sets go.

[yermom]

heh

[Sooner5030]

BYU and UNLV gets us 2 new markets and statewide coverage in those regions. Colorado State would help if we lost CU to maintain the Denver market. UNM would get us Albuquerque and Sante Fe but we already get Las Cruces and El Paso anyway. Nevada, Utah and maybe Idaho are really the only way to gain markets we don't already have.

[silverwheels]

UNLV wouldn't even really bring us the Las Vegas market, since no one there cares about them, and they're not very strong academically, so they'd lower that profile for the conference.

Any way you slice this, the Big 12 can't really afford it if more than one school leaves. If, say, Colorado is the only school that leaves (for the Pac-10), and we can replace them with BYU, then I would say that's successful.

[Sooner5030]

correct but both the Reno and Las Vegas ABC affiliates would carry the B12 game over the other options regardless of Vegas proper appeal.

[Crucifax Autumn]

No kidding. I've lived here since 2003 and haven't gone to a single UNLV game and I've watched maybe part of 2 games.

[SicEmBaylor]

Arkansas would be my top choice.

[Leroy Lizard]

UNLV wouldn't even really bring us the Las Vegas market, since no one there cares about them, and they're not very strong academically,

That's an understatement.

[prrriiide]

I still don't get why our tv deal is so much inferior to the SEC or Pac10 or Big 10. I realize that the tv markets are smaller in our zone, but that much smaller? Does anyone possess the market numbers (either precise of ballpark, I'm just trying to understand, not make a court case).
It seems like our conference has not been proactive or aggressive in marketing itself. But maybe I just don't understand the relative strengths. Edjumakate me.

Here are the top 100 markets by number of households. The rest can be seen here:

http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/us_hh_by_dma.asp

Rank - Designated Market Area (DMA) - TV Households - % of US
1 - New York, NY - 7,493,530 - 6.524
2 Los Angeles, CA 5,659,170 4.927
3 Chicago, IL 3,501,010 3.048
4 Philadelphia, PA 2,955,190 2.573
5 Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX 2,544,410 2.215
6 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA 2,503,400 2.179
7 Boston, MA (Manchester, NH) 2,410,180 2.098
8 Atlanta, GA 2,387,520 2.079
9 Washington, DC (Hagerstown, MD) 2,335,040 2.033
10 Houston, TX 2,123,460 1.849
11 Detroit, MI 1,890,220 1.646
12 Phoenix, AZ 1,873,930 1.631
13 Seattle-Tacoma, WA 1,833,990 1.597
14 Tampa-St. Petersburg (Sarasota), FL 1,805,810 1.572
15 Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN 1,732,050 1.508
16 Denver, CO 1,539,380 1.340
17 Miami-Fort Lauderdale, FL 1,538,090 1.339
18 Cleveland-Akron (Canton), OH 1,520,750 1.324
19 Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne, FL 1,455,620 1.267
20 Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto, CA 1,404,580 1.223
21 St. Louis, MO 1,249,450 1.088
22 Portland, OR 1,188,770 1.035
23 Pittsburgh, PA 1,154,950 1.005
24 Charlotte, NC 1,147,910 1.000
25 Indianapolis, IN 1,119,760 0.975
26 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetteville), NC 1,107,820 0.964
27 Baltimore, MD 1,093,170 0.952
28 San Diego, CA 1,073,390 0.934
29 Nashville, TN 1,019,010 0.888
30 Hartford and New Haven, CT 1,010,630 0.880
31 Salt Lake City, UT 944,060 0.822
32 Kansas City, MO 941,360 0.820
33 Cincinnati, OH 918,670 0.800
34 Columbus, OH 904,030 0.787
35 Milwaukee, WI 901,790 0.785
36 Greenville-Spartanburg, SC-Asheville, NC-Anderson,SC 865,810 0.754
37 San Antonio, TX 830,000 0.723
38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce, FL 776,080 0.676
39 Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York, PA 743,420 0.647
40 Birmingham (Anniston and Tuscaloosa), AL 742,140 0.646
41 Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek, MI 740,430 0.645
42 Las Vegas, NV 721,780 0.628
43 Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News, VA 709,880 0.618
44 Albuquerque-Santa Fe, NM 694,040 0.604
45 Oklahoma City, OK 694,030 0.604
46 Greensboro-High Point-Winston Salem, NC 691,380 0.602
47 Jacksonville, FL 679,120 0.591
48 Austin, TX 678,730 0.591
49 Louisville, KY 668,310 0.582
50 Memphis, TN 667,660 0.581
51 New Orleans, LA 633,930 0.552
52 Buffalo, NY 633,220 0.551
53 Providence, RI-New Bedford, MA 619,610 0.539
54 Wilkes Barre-Scranton, PA 593,480 0.517
55 Fresno-Visalia, CA 579,180 0.504
56 Little Rock-Pine Bluff, AR 564,490 0.491
57 Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY 554,070 0.482
58 Richmond-Petersburg, VA 553,950 0.482
59 Knoxville, TN 552,380 0.481
60 Mobile, AL-Pensacola (Ft. Walton Beach), FL 534,730 0.466
61 Tulsa, OK 528,070 0.460
62 Lexington, KY 506,340 0.441
63 Charleston-Huntington, WV 501,530 0.437
64 Ft. Myers-Naples, Fl 500,110 0.435
65 Dayton, OH 482,590 0.420
66 Tucson (Sierra Vista), AZ 465,100 0.405
67 Roanoke-Lynchburg, VA 461,220 0.402
68 Flint-Saginaw-Bay City, MI 458,020 0.399
69 Wichita-Hutchinson, KS Plus 452,710 0.394
70 Green Bay-Appleton, WI 443,420 0.386
71 Honolulu, HI 433,240 0.377
72 Des Moines-Ames, IA 432,310 0.376
73 Toledo, OH 423,100 0.368
74 Springfield, MO 422,740 0.368
75 Spokane, WA 419,350 0.365
76 Omaha, NE 410,350 0.357
77 Portland-Auburn, ME 408,120 0.355
78 Paducah, KY-Cape Girardeau, MO-Harrisburg, IL 399,690 0.348
79 Columbia, SC 398,620 0.347
80 Rochester, NY 392,190 0.341
81 Huntsville-Decatur (Florence), AL 390,900 0.340
82 Shreveport, LA 386,180 0.336
83 Syracuse, NY 385,440 0.336
84 Champaign and Springfield-Decatur, IL 384,620 0.335
85 Madison, WI 377,260 0.328
86 Chattanooga, TN 365,400 0.318
87 Harlingen-Weslaco-Brownsville-McAllen, TX 354,150 0.308
88 Cedar Rapids-Waterloo-Iowa City and Dubuque, IA 346,030 0.301
89 Waco-Temple-Bryan, TX 339,570 0.296
90 Jackson, MS 336,520 0.293
91 South Bend-Elkhart, IN 336,130 0.293
92 Colorado Springs-Pueblo, CO 334,710 0.291
93 Tri-Cities, TN-VA 334,620 0.291
94 Burlington, VT-Plattsburgh, NY 330,650 0.288
95 Baton Rouge, LA 326,890 0.285
96 Savannah, GA 322,030 0.280
97 Charleston, SC 311,190 0.271
98 El Paso, TX 310,760 0.271
99 Davenport, IA-Rock Island-Moline, IL 308,910 0.269
100 Ft. Smith-Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR 298,330 0.260


(http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/us_hh_by_dma.asp)

[TexasLidig8r]

Every day that goes by right now is another day that +exas, colrado or mizzou's bluff is exposed.

The best they could hope for is a situation where leaving would hurt their pocket books for more than one season and I call BS on that happening. If it does happen....the folks who pushed it won't be around long after making such a stupid mistake.

At the risk of well.. obtaining more pablum... can you set forth any facts at all that support this. .well.... conglomeration of words?

[fwsooner22]

I don't claim to be smart enough to know all the in's and out's of this conference change information but I know where there's smoke there is fire. ** has been making noise about this since before the BigXII.

You might also consider that if the top 10% rule continues (now 8%) ** for another generation ** won't be the academic juggernaut it sees itself as today. They may well think that now is the time.

Never, Ever underestimate the ability of UT people to overestimate their academic self worth. They see themselves as an Ivy league school even though most of them went to school at a time when it wasn't what it is today. Heck, my wife graduated in 1985 and absent from that transcript is any basic math, algebra, calculus, world history, computer science or literature. Her degree ? Communications. Go figure.

I for one believe that arrogance drives this and if I am right.......it's goodbye **. I would hate that.

[TexasLidig8r]

I don't claim to be smart enough to know all the in's and out's of this conference change information but I know where there's smoke there is fire. ** has been making noise about this since before the BigXII.

You might also consider that if the top 10% rule continues (now 8%) ** for another generation ** won't be the academic juggernaut it sees itself as today. They may well think that now is the time.

Never, Ever underestimate the ability of UT people to overestimate their academic self worth. They see themselves as an Ivy league school even though most of them went to school at a time when it wasn't what it is today. Heck, my wife graduated in 1985 and absent from that transcript is any basic math, algebra, calculus, world history, computer science or literature. Her degree ? Communications. Go figure.

I for one believe that arrogance drives this and if I am right.......it's goodbye **. I would hate that.

First, it isn't arrogance that is driving this.. it is cold hard dollars and cents. If Texas is can get hundreds of millions of additional dollars in television revenue and academic funding and grants by joining another conference, why wouldn't we? Do you really believe if the same opportunity was presented to OU, they wouldn't jump at the chance?

UT's academic reputation comes from its graduate programs, its law school, business school, engineering programs and medical programs...that fact that it has been a member of the AAU for decades and is regarded as a top notch research institution.

That is just the reality of college athletics.. and the university systems now.

[soonervegas]

First, it isn't arrogance that is driving this.. it is cold hard dollars and cents. If Texas is can get hundreds of millions of additional dollars in television revenue and academic funding and grants by joining another conference, why wouldn't we? Do you really believe if the same opportunity was presented to OU, they wouldn't jump at the chance?

UT's academic reputation comes from its graduate programs, its law school, business school, engineering programs and medical programs...that fact that it has been a member of the AAU for decades and is regarded as a top notch research institution.

That is just the reality of college athletics.. and the university systems now.

This is all posturing to get more power within the conference, Texas isn't going anywhere. Which if you boil it down, it is nothing but arrogance.

[soonervegas]

sorry....DP.

[TexasLidig8r]

This is all posturing to get more power within the conference, Texas isn't going anywhere. Which if you boil it down, it is nothing but arrogance.

Did you wake up on the "naive" side of the bed this morning?

Let's suppose the Big 10/11 approached Ou... the Big 10/11 says, "Ok hillbillies, we like you.. we want you to join. Let's look at the numbers."

Last year, you got about $10.5 million from your Big 12 television contract. Good for you. But... you join the Big 10/11, your take from our television contracts is expected to be about.... $22 million.. annually. That is a gain of about $11.5 million. PLUS, you will be playing games in 4 of the top 10 most populated states in the United States.

THEN.. on top of that.. as a member of Big 10/11, you will be a member of the CIC. Last year, CIC schools split $6 BILLION dollars in research funds and grants. Now, if that is split 13 ways, your annual split of those funds and grants will be about.. oh.... $461 MILLION .. annually.. in your academic and general scholarship fund.

So.. if you join the Big 10/11, that means you will have .. oh.. about $472 MILLION .. annually,... coming to your school.

Interested?

Your school Athletic Director (who apparently, actually runs the place) would tell your school president to accept that in a heartbeat!

The Big XII is the Titanic... it just hasn't hit the iceberg yet.

In whatever inferiority complex you wish to live, the dollars and cents are screaming very loudly.. much moreso than any perceived "arrogance" of Texas.

[TahoeSOONER]

"Let's suppose the Big 10/11 approached Ou... the Big 10/11 says, "Ok hillbillies, we like you.. we want you to join. Let's look at the numbers."

I would tell the Big 10 to visit Oklahoma because there's no hills, thus we can't be hillbillies.

[soonervegas]

Did you wake up on the "naive" side of the bed this morning?

Let's suppose the Big 10/11 approached Ou... the Big 10/11 says, "Ok hillbillies, we like you.. we want you to join. Let's look at the numbers."

Last year, you got about $10.5 million from your Big 12 television contract. Good for you. But... you join the Big 10/11, your take from our television contracts is expected to be about.... $22 million.. annually. That is a gain of about $11.5 million. PLUS, you will be playing games in 4 of the top 10 most populated states in the United States.

THEN.. on top of that.. as a member of Big 10/11, you will be a member of the CIC. Last year, CIC schools split $6 BILLION dollars in research funds and grants. Now, if that is split 13 ways, your annual split of those funds and grants will be about.. oh.... $461 MILLION .. annually.. in your academic and general scholarship fund.

So.. if you join the Big 10/11, that means you will have .. oh.. about $472 MILLION .. annually,... coming to your school.

Interested?

Your school Athletic Director (who apparently, actually runs the place) would tell your school president to accept that in a heartbeat!

The Big XII is the Titanic... it just hasn't hit the iceberg yet.

In whatever inferiority complex you wish to live, the dollars and cents are screaming very loudly.. much moreso than any perceived "arrogance" of Texas.

Nope, I just know that there are considerable athletic risks associated with Texas leaving and going to the Big 10. We will let time prove one of us wrong. I'll still be here and admit that I was wrong if you leave.

[TexasLidig8r]

Nope, I just know that there are considerable athletic risks associated with Texas leaving and going to the Big 10. We will let time prove one of us wrong. I'll still be here and admit that I was wrong if you leave.

Since, I'm new on this here site.. I don't know if I would come back...:rolleyes:

I'm not saying that Texas to the Big 10/11 is going to happen.. but.. if a formal invitation from the Big 10/11 was made, there would be a lot of reasons to accept.

By the way.. and as an aside.. have you been to "Twist" yet? Going there next month.

[NormanPride]

1. Where did you get the numbers for the CIC (what is it, anyway?), and
2. Is there any current deal that would be traded for that? i.e. accepting CIC would preclude you from being in the current deal.

472 mil is insane, and I have no idea how there can be that great a disparity from one conference to the other.

[fwsooner22]

You guys who haven't been here long need to get your ducks in a row if you going to take on LID. He may be a ** but if ya don't have your stuff together he will kick ya in the %^&*. You dont want that from a **. I speak from experience. Just sayin.

[soonervegas]

Since, I'm new on this here site.. I don't know if I would come back...:rolleyes:

I'm not saying that Texas to the Big 10/11 is going to happen.. but.. if a formal invitation from the Big 10/11 was made, there would be a lot of reasons to accept.

By the way.. and as an aside.. have you been to "Twist" yet? Going there next month.

I haven't been to City Center yet. Lucky horn....

[TexasLidig8r]

1. Where did you get the numbers for the CIC (what is it, anyway?), and
2. Is there any current deal that would be traded for that? i.e. accepting CIC would preclude you from being in the current deal.

472 mil is insane, and I have no idea how there can be that great a disparity from one conference to the other.

Go to www.cic.net (http://www.cic.net).

And then.. google is your friend.

[KantoSooner]

Thank you Prrriiiide, Since you provided the data link, the least I could do is run an adding machine. I have made some assumptions, like awarding all of a market to a given conference with very few exceptions even when one may be split. I have also looked only at B10, B12, P10 and SEC, thus definitely skewing the numbers in places with ACC, B-East, WAC, MW or other local competition. Take the comparison for what it's worth. Here are the percentage 'share' of the t.v. market's for the four major conferences. No assumptions are made for relative household income.

SEC: 18.68%

Big 10: 17.47%

Pac 10: 15.43%

Big 12: 12.91 %

Assuming that demographically we are most like the SEC, I was surprised at how much larger their market is, but it still doesn't double ours....and they have much more significant market segmentation with ACC and others. Why do they rate double the money?
I suspect we got a hose job on our contract. Anyone have insight?

[NormanPride]

Go to www.cic.net (http://www.cic.net).

And then.. google is your friend.

I can't find any other organizations like that. Are there others?

[TexasLidig8r]

I can't find any other organizations like that. Are there others?

None that I'm aware of on a widespread basis like that.

Now, the $6 billion isnt' necessarily split evenly among member institutions. Nor does it represent actual "hard dollars" doled out to the universities. But, the scholarships, grants, research projects, shared facilities are invaluable.. and enough to keep the academicians happy and the politicians at arm's length.

[ndpruitt03]

I think Memphis brings in the most. Followed by maybe Utah or BYU but I don't like adding either one as much as Memphis.

[silverwheels]

I think Memphis brings in the most. Followed by maybe Utah or BYU but I don't like adding either one as much as Memphis.

What? Memphis won't bring in jack. They're just another school like UNLV or Houston: no one cares about them outside of alums and their academics aren't in line with the rest of the conference. BYU should be the first school we go after. And Utah is the school being discussed along with Colorado for Pac-10 expansion.

[TexasLidig8r]

Thank you Prrriiiide, Since you provided the data link, the least I could do is run an adding machine. I have made some assumptions, like awarding all of a market to a given conference with very few exceptions even when one may be split. I have also looked only at B10, B12, P10 and SEC, thus definitely skewing the numbers in places with ACC, B-East, WAC, MW or other local competition. Take the comparison for what it's worth. Here are the percentage 'share' of the t.v. market's for the four major conferences. No assumptions are made for relative household income.

SEC: 18.68%

Big 10: 17.47%

Pac 10: 15.43%

Big 12: 12.91 %

Assuming that demographically we are most like the SEC, I was surprised at how much larger their market is, but it still doesn't double ours....and they have much more significant market segmentation with ACC and others. Why do they rate double the money?
I suspect we got a hose job on our contract. Anyone have insight?

One.. we got a hose job with our television contract... actually, television contracts. ABC has the first choice of a "game of the week."... then, FSN... then Versus. The FSN contract comes up after 2011 I believe. ABC not until 2016. Therefore, any network that bids for after 2011 will know that they will not get the "marquis" game. Texas - Ou? Ha! Not a chance. OU - The Bugeaters? HA! Not a chance! When Texas ran its gauntlet in 2008 of No. 1 ranked Ou, top 12 ranked Missouri.. Top 10 ranked OSU.. Top 5 ranked sand aggy in consecutive weeks.. how many of those games did FSN or Versus get? yeah... that would be.. NONE.

Two.. for most SEC states, the only competition for athletic events in those states is.. NASCAR. Besides the Saints in New Orleans.. what pro teams are there in ... Alabama.. Arkansas.. Mississippi.. Tennessee (Griz barely).. Kentucky.. South Carolina.. Louisiana? You have some diversity in Florida and Georgia, but.. college football is king. Therefore, you have a captive audience in those states whose very sporting existence is centered around college football.

Now.. look at the Big XII.. Ioway state is Corn State aggy playing second fiddle to the Hawkeyes... the two Kansas schools. .except for Snyder's earlier run, are not and never have been big football schools... Missouri has been mediocre for its entire existence and people in Misery have the Cards and Rams and Chiefs and Royals to follow... the Muffaloes have Denver... but isn't Denver more a pro sports town?... that leaves Nebraska.. with its 37 television sets, Okie Lite... second fiddle to Ou.. OU and the Texas schools. A network is going to look at that line up and go.. hmmm.. what national appeal will a Kansas v. Ioway State game.. or Okie Lite vs. Colorado.. or KState v. Baylor have?

[NormanPride]

What national appeal does Kentucky vs. Auburn have? Vanderbilt vs. Mississippi State? Every conference has its duds that nobody cares about. It boils down to the fact that our office didn't have any clout when it first agreed on a contract, then agreed on one for way too long, THEN re-upped because they're dooshers and hate us.

As for the CIC stuff, is it a situation where donations that would normally go to a specific school go to this thing to be redistributed? I just don't see how grouping up like that magically generates 6 billion dollars, no matter where they go. That has to come from somewhere and I'd bet it's out of the individual Uni's pockets and into this thing.

COMMUNISM! ;)

[KantoSooner]

Lid, While your basic premise is correct, there is a bit more split in SEC land (FSU, for one, Miami, for another, Clemson, etc) but I quibble. And that lacrosse fanbase is growing like topsy.
The numbers are what they are: we're approximately 65% the size of the SEC audience. At worst.
I think you could negotiate a deal with a broadcast outlet that gave them the FSN games immediately the current contract is over.....at $X and then promised them the ABC games starting in 2016 at $X+Y. That would seem the only way out of the morass.
Jayzus. Who would negotiate a contract like the one we have? It's nuts. Time for a Big 12 network and take the whole dam thing cable/satellite.

[Partial Qualifier]

First, it isn't arrogance that is driving this.. it is cold hard dollars and cents.


Sorry if this was already addressed but Lid, you said it yourself: this whole thing is basically just off-season water cooler talk. So cold hard dollars and cents aren't driving **** at this point, right?

I think fwsooner22 was closer to the truth than you gave him credit for.

And that's not to say UT isn't rightfully arrogant, because it *is* a powerful entity when talking about dollars and cents, TV markets, etc. but right now it's just message board talk, including a TON of "We're Texas!" supposition.

[TexasLidig8r]

Sorry if this was already addressed but Lid, you said it yourself: this whole thing is basically just off-season water cooler talk. So cold hard dollars and cents aren't driving **** at this point, right?

I think fwsooner22 was closer to the truth than you gave him credit for.

And that's not to say UT isn't rightfully arrogant, because it *is* a powerful entity when talking about dollars and cents, TV markets, etc. but right now it's just message board talk, including a TON of "We're Texas!" supposition.

Yeah. well... mmm.. yeah.. well... that's true I suppose. :D

[Partial Qualifier]

Lid :D

the Texas reasoning is definitely valid, and I'm playing devil's advocate.

Even over here at soonerfans, these discussions wind up being full of valid reasons why the Big 10 would have interest in Texas, valid reasons for Texas jumping ship, etc.

I think OU will be just fine, no matter what happens. And I don't think Mizzou is doing themselves any favors with the "umm we'd be interested!" pose they adopted. Mizzou.... please.

[King Barry's Back]

Whatever happened to geographic sense? Why doesn't USC just join the BIG East?

I'm not ripping on you, KBB. This whole thing started with Tejas to the PAC 10 or BIG10/11.

Geographic sense pretty much went out the window with mega-millions TV contracts.

According to numbers I've seen thrown around in the press, TX is among the highest TV revenue earners in the Big XII -- and if a magic wand was waved and they joined the Big 10 tomorrow -- their annual athletics budget would increase by over $11 million.

So, take say $3 million to allow the football team to travel luxury, charter air, and $1 million for the basketball team to do the same.

Then let's throw in $2 million more for additional travel costs for non-revenue sports -- on top of whatever they are spending now -- and you've still got $5 million to spend on increased salaries and better facilities EVERY YEAR.

Also consider that if TX went to the Big 10, TV viewer ship of conference sports would vastly increase with the huge new TV market in the nation's second largest state -- and you have to figure that the next Big 10 contract would pay EVEN MORE, and much more.

Conferences have been historically geography based to minimize travel time and expense.

The right money overcomes those.

[JLEW1818]

how did it go out the window?? examples?

[Sabanball]

I still say Arkansas would be the best addition to your conference if you guys ever need a replacement.

[Collier11]

There are a select few schools that have natl appeal, in football they are OU, ND, Usc, Tex, Florida, Penn state, Florida St(not as much), Ohio State, and Michigan

In bball they are Ku, Duke, Unc, Ucla, Kentucky, Indiana and Gonzaga lately.

Thats about it...

[PrideTrombone]

I think Memphis brings in the most. Followed by maybe Utah or BYU but I don't like adding either one as much as Memphis.

The only things that Memphis would being the most of are:

1) Uselessness

and

2) Delicious barbeque.

That's it. If anyone bolts we need to at least make the call to Arkansas. Assuming they don't bite, BYU.

[Collier11]

Memphis for a colorado would be good cus it would boost the Hoops side of it

[silverwheels]

I still say Arkansas would be the best addition to your conference if you guys ever need a replacement.

We're not getting Arkansas away from the SEC unless they're kicked out, or they could somehow make more money in the Big 12, which is not likely since this conference has been run by idiots since about Day 0.

And Memphis for Colorado wouldn't be worth it, since football makes more money than basketball. And there's a reason they're called "Tiger High" by most people in Tennessee. Memphis would be a terrible replacement for anyone.

[PrideTrombone]

Memphis for a colorado would be good cus it would boost the Hoops side of it

You do know Calipari left for Kentucky so they suck now, right?

[Collier11]

Memphis is still a good hoops school who is likely going to the tourney this year and bringing in the #1 recruiting class in the nation next year

[Leroy Lizard]

We're not going to get a Big-10, SEC, or Pac-10 team to join.

Okay, coming completely out of right field: San Diego State.

Okay, the school isn't that close, but look at the tv market and the recruiting grounds. Once they are in the Big 12, their own recruiting would skyrocket, pulling recruits away from UCLA and SC. And playing every other year in San Diego would help us in the California market.

In the short term, not a great choice. But long term it could work out. And you know they would join.

[oudavid1]

The Conferences are fine (Shut Up Noter Dame!)

[silverwheels]

Memphis is still a good hoops school who is likely going to the tourney this year and bringing in the #1 recruiting class in the nation next year

They still shouldn't be in a major conference.

[Collier11]

some schools represent big school status with basketball, some with football. Memphis is a hoops school, KU is a hoops school, UNC is a hoops school, Duke, etc...

[silverwheels]

Memphis' academics also pale in comparison to all 3 of those schools. Big time.

[Collier11]

So does Ohio states for one

[silverwheels]

Ohio State isn't an Ivy League school, but they're better than Memphis. And they have a much, much bigger following and have a much better overall athletic program. Not a valid comparison.

[Collier11]

Ohio state is a big time fball program, Memphis is a big time hoops program

[silverwheels]

Ohio state is a big time fball program, Memphis is a big time hoops program

Memphis has 3 Final Four appearances, 2 of which have been vacated by the NCAA. Ohio State has been to more Final Fours, has more 2nd-place finishes, and also has an NCAA Championship in basketball. Ohio State is more than just a big time football program. Yes, that is their main attraction, but they are solid all around.

[Collier11]

My point was on the academic side, just cus you arent a great academic school doesnt mean you shouldnt be in a big time conf

[silverwheels]

My point was on the academic side, just cus you arent a great academic school doesnt mean you shouldnt be in a big time conf

Well combine the less-than-stellar academics with the less-than-stellar overall athletics profile and a weak following, you get a school that shouldn't be in a major conference. Like Memphis.

[Collier11]

if that was the criteria, we would kick out half of the SEC and Big 12 schools

[silverwheels]

if that was the criteria, we would kick out half of the SEC and Big 12 schools

I guess, but there isn't a real system of promotion and relegation. Memphis belongs in Conference USA. If any BCS conference adds them, it will be the Big East, not the Big 12. We can do better.