If Texas does leave the big 12..

[Soonermagik]

1) OU could pull a Notre Dame and leave the conference. Think about it, we pick our own schedule, keep all our bcs money. Plus, we could make a special contract with ESPN to keep our tv money too.

2) Or.. the Big 12 can release Texas and make a stronger conference. Yeah, I'm talking bringing in better teams. This would be a major restructuring. Steal LSU & Arkansas away from the SEC. Then boot Teams like Iowa State, Colorado and Missouri. This would allow us to bring in BYU and TCU.

3) Possibly bolt to the SEC to make a super conference


If we go for option 2... LSU, Arkansas, BYU & TCU is far better than Iowa State, Missouri, Texas & Colorado for football purposes. We all know that football brings in the money, so this could make sense. Plus, the tv audiences that would be brought it would be huge.

[oudivesherpa]

Notre Dame works as an independent because of it's Catholic base, in short they have people from all over the country pulling for them--Oklahoma has a large Alumni base, but not as large as 50 million Catholics.

Look at the business aspect, we have a great product, Oklahoma football, but we are located in a small market, Oklahoma,where most of our fan base is alumni. We just don't translate well enough for the average joe in Pittsburg to be an OU fan without an alumni connection. We need a strong conference tie.

[PLaw]

Highly doubtful that any SEC school would ever separate from the conference.

Boomer

[Sooner70]

If Texas leaves the Big 12, the conference should try & bring in TCU. It would scratch their itch to be in a BCS conference, and would be a great regional addition....lots of local interest.


I can't see it happening, though. I don't think Texas is up to regular matchups with the likes of Ohio State, Michigan (on the rebound), Iowa, etc.
Their mode of operation is much more attuned to padding their schedule and playing the Louisiana Techs, etc.

Some rivalry games would get kicked to the curb. aTm for one, and of course RRR. I've long thought the RRR is more of a benefit to Texas than OU anyway. Texas has a good program that's getting better, but it's not elite like OU. When Texas plays OU, they're a good program playing up to an elite program. I've heard all that about how many they've won the past few years, but fact is Texas has only won 3 B12 Championships in the 14 years of the conf existence...OU & Stoops has doubled that.

If Texas leaves, it won't be the end of the world. I know it's hard to imagine the world without the RRR, but look what happened when the B12 came into existence and OU vs. Nebraska. When Arkansas went to SEC, etc. Wish them luck and let's move on.

[StoopTroup]

+exas university is full of nutjob tards who start runnin' their mouth about how everybody else doesn't listen to their ideas.

Thus we saw airplanes flying banners and *'s in 2008.

They basically tried to hold us up and end the RRSO a few years ago. The Cotton Bowl put a cover over the tunnel for them as they felt OU Fans might hurt their feelings as they walked into the field of play.

Just a bunch of whiners who are always trying to get their way.
If they would put as much into playing football as they do trying to leverage conferences and bowl committees they might actually get some respect instead of absorb respect that is greed driven.

They'll never change though.

+exas university is the Alamo replayed every year.

[ndpruitt03]

If Texas leaves the Big 12 they would be stupid. It would mean 3 or 4 road games where they would have to go about 1000 miles away every year. In the Big 12 right now they have about 1 or 2 games out of the state of Texas every year.

[StoopTroup]

If Texas leaves the Big 12 they would be stupid.

They would be?

Dude...even you should know better than to think they aren't already stupid.

Another ZepFail.

[betterstill]

Without Texas the Big 12 would start a downward spiral that would result in a weaker conference, like the Big 10. The biggest problem would occur if we lost Texas plus either A&M, Mizzou or Nebraska to the Big 10 and Colorado to the Pac 10. The loss of the Texas and Missouri markets (and Colorado) would really hurt the Big 12. There would be no way to get it back. The best we could hope for is that the SEC would take us.

[StoopTroup]

Without Texas the Big 12 would start a downward spiral that would result in a weaker conference, like the Big 10. The biggest problem would occur if we lost Texas plus either A&M, Mizzou or Nebraska to the Big 10 and Colorado to the Pac 10. The loss of the Texas and Missouri markets (and Colorado) would really hurt the Big 12. There would be no way to get it back. The best we could hope for is that the SEC would take us.

Weaker?

Maybe. It just depends on who replaces them. Both Mizzou and +exas are just unhappy with some things. I would imagine most of it is money. Everyone knows that winning is how you make more money. What I've seen happening is fan bases turning on each other when their rival is playing outside the conference. The two biggest are Mizzou and +exas. So...when you say the Conference will suffer if they leave...I'd say we are already suffering. Mizzou and +exas should be told to not let the door hit them in the *** IMO.

There are plenty of other Schools to take their place. If Mizzou wants to break a longtime tradition for the unknown and bolt...so be it. I say don't let +exas posture it's position because of Mizzou's sudden unhappiness. I could care less what +exas thinks and if they want to leave....let them. Hell...if they mention it once more....boot them the **** out for that matter. If it ended up giving a death blow to the RRSO because of it...so be it. Their arrogance and money is all that gets them attention anyway.

Yeah the Big XII Conference might have a bad year or a couple of bad years and we might have to adjust schedules and renegoiate some games but I'd say that we could just make +exas pay everyone for the losses if they really wanted out.

I think a trillion dollars would cover it.

[reevie]

If Texas jumps, we should bolt to the SEC

[StoopTroup]

We should stay right where we are. We were fine until this all turned into a "Save the SWC" Telethon.

[soonervegas]

I have been in constant prayer the last 48 hours that they don't leave. I have been reading hornfans and according to them if they leave OU will just become another...........wait for it..........Houston.

Texas would be insane to leave. They would lose some of their stranglehold on Texas recruits and couple that with one bad football hire, disaster. They have the world by the balls in the Big 12. Better move would be for the Big 12 to be proactive this time and get a fish or two prior to our next contract.

[JLEW1818]

i think those tools should just cancel football forever

[PLaw]

Okay, to heck with the discussion. I've got a $1 that sez +exas stays put - any takers?

As said above, winning cures all ills. +exas or mizzery are not going to be better off in any other league. Face it, +exas is going to whine regardless and it doesn't help now that OU has returned to prominence and has dominated the South.

BOOMER

[StoopTroup]

Not even gonna bet a $1 against those ****ing whiners.

They'll stay if they know what's good for them.

[troyboy8ball]

Texas and A&M, and perhaps Nebraska, are going to the Big 10. Colorado (and Utah) is going to the Pac 10. OU has no hope of being invited to either conference because of academics. SEC has stated they won't expand until the current TV contract runs out in 7 years. So, that leaves the Big 12 to steal teams from the Mountain West and WAC. I think the new Big 12 looks like this.

Big 12 North - Nebraska, Boise State, Missouri, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State

Big 12 South - OU, OSU, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, BYU

[WA. Sooner]

We did OK before the Big12 (6mnc) If lame *** teXass leaves does that make us worse the the Big East, ACC that have auto bids?

[WA. Sooner]

Iowa State is a better fit for the Big 10/11. They don't need a upper spot team, just need to get to 12. ISU lets them get there and is already in there area

[troyboy8ball]

Iowa State isn't an option. You all need to educate yourself on what the Big 10 and Pac 10 are looking for. The Big 10 is looking for a school that 1) is a top research school with high academic standing (ISU isn't that) and 2) will add a lot of new TV sets for the Big 10 network (Big 10 already has the state of Iowa locked up with the Hawkeyes, but they're absolutely salivating at adding the great state of Texas). Texas and Notre Dame are the two crown jewels the Big 10 desires, they won't add a lower tier school just for the sake of getting to 12.

[soonervegas]

We will be fine troyboy. Noe put the pert conditioner away and step out of the bathroom.

[troyboy8ball]

I think OU will be fine, as well, and maybe even be in a better position to go undefeated each year. But I think everyone needs to come to the realization that the Big 12 is going to have several defectors, and it's time to start thinking about how to pick up the pieces in a more proactive fashion.

[TexasLidig8r]

Weaker?

Maybe. It just depends on who replaces them. Both Mizzou and +exas are just unhappy with some things. I would imagine most of it is money. Everyone knows that winning is how you make more money.

Nothing could be further from the truth. What brings in more money is being in a highly populated state that appeals to networks and corporate sponsors. Look at Indiana vs. Texas. Indiana received 22 MILLION dollars from the Big 10 television contract... this year. Texas, received a little over 12 million dollars from the Big XII television contract. In addition, Indiana received approximately 8 million in grants and funding as being part of the CIC... which all Big 10 schools belong to. Texas -- 0. So the fact that Indiana is in the Big 10, they received approximately 18 MILLION DOLLARS more than Texas do.. because they are in the Big 10. Now.. when was the last time that Indiana was in a big bowl? Try 1967. Still think that winning is how you make more money?

What I've seen happening is fan bases turning on each other when their rival is playing outside the conference. The two biggest are Mizzou and +exas. So...when you say the Conference will suffer if they leave...I'd say we are already suffering. Mizzou and +exas should be told to not let the door hit them in the *** IMO.

Texas leaves, they take the 2nd most populated state in the US with them... they take the television markets of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin with them. We take the national appeal we have. Do you really think when the Big XII television contract comes up for renewal with FSN in 2012 and ABC in 2016, they are going to pony up any significant money? Television networks are for profit companies. They are in it to make a buck. Do you really think the weekly dose of Ioway State vs. Okie Lite is going to rate high viewership nationwide?

There are plenty of other Schools to take their place. If Mizzou wants to break a longtime tradition for the unknown and bolt...so be it. I say don't let +exas posture it's position because of Mizzou's sudden unhappiness. I could care less what +exas thinks and if they want to leave....let them.

If you could care less.. why don't you? Does that mean you care somewhat? In the meantime, name the schools who could provide the viewership that Texas provides... the population centers that Texas provides... the corporate following that Texas provides.. and who would be willing to leave their current sweetheart deals with their own conferences... here's a clue... There aren't any.

Hell...if they mention it once more....boot them the **** out for that matter. If it ended up giving a death blow to the RRSO because of it...so be it. Their arrogance and money is all that gets them attention anyway.

That. and bowl wins and the second most victories in college football history and the many other traditions and appeal that Texas has.

Yeah the Big XII Conference might have a bad year or a couple of bad years and we might have to adjust schedules and renegoiate some games but I'd say that we could just make +exas pay everyone for the losses if they really wanted out.

I think a trillion dollars would cover it.

There are many fallacious posts in this thread.

But, the Big XII cannot survive long without Texas and its television markets. It's not about competitive balance. It's not about "winning" (see Indiana reference).. It's about dollars and cents.

[soonerscuba]

OU has no hope of being invited to either conference because of academics.You do realize that OU is a tier 1 university ranked higher than UO, WSU, or ASU, right? It's clear that you don't, and to be honest you are not alone. OU has come light years ahead of where it was a decade ago and now is nationally ranked and has a 1b+ endowment, which is about as good as it gets for a state with 3m people and shares funding with another major university. So, while I can understand the sentiment, I just don't think you can say we couldn't hack it in the Pac-10, when we're already better than some of your members academically.

[soonervegas]

There are many fallacious posts in this thread.

But, the Big XII cannot survive long without Texas and its television markets. It's not about competitive balance. It's not about "winning" (see Indiana reference).. It's about dollars and cents.

So to clarify for everyone.....at this point if Texas stays it will strictly be out of the goodness of their heart.

[StoopTroup]

There are many fallacious posts in this thread.

But, the Big XII cannot survive long without Texas and its television markets. It's not about competitive balance. It's not about "winning" (see Indiana reference).. It's about dollars and cents.

So you say. Your just one of the whiney bitches.

The Big XII won't miss a step even if +exas was replaced with a Jr. College

[troyboy8ball]

Soonerscuba, good points. I wasn't trying to say that OU was a bad school academically, just that there are certain requirements - in the Big 10 especially - that OU doesn't meet, such as AAU membership and being considered a "research school". I'm just regurgitating information I've read on other sites, so if I'm wrong about the AAU status and research capabilities, please let me know.

[GottaHavePride]

Without Texas the Big 12 would start a downward spiral that would result in a weaker conference, like the Big 10.

You're missing the point. The Big 10 is the most profitable conference in college football. Best sponsorship deals, best TV contracts. It's not about winning football games, it's about money. The SEC and Pac-10 don't even sniff the Big 10's jock when it comes to money, and the Big XII is like the little kid brother.

Now, try taking away Texas from the Big XII, and don't think about athletic competitiveness. Think losing a gigantic TV audience and (aside from Baylor) the conference's highest-rated academic institution. (Which translates to: more and wealthier alumni that are attractive to sponsors and TV networks.)

[GottaHavePride]

OU is not an AAU school. Big XII AAU members are: UT, A&M, Colorado, Kansas, Iowa State, and Nebraska.

[betterstill]

No, we won't be "fine" if Texas leaves the Big 12, unless you will be happy that we will be in a lower tier conference like the Big East.

[soonerscuba]

Soonerscuba, good points. I wasn't trying to say that OU was a bad school academically, just that there are certain requirements - in the Big 10 especially - that OU doesn't meet, such as AAU membership and being considered a "research school". I'm just regurgitating information I've read on other sites, so if I'm wrong about the AAU status and research capabilities, please let me know.As stated, OU isn't AAU, and couldn't be in the Big10, but I do think that we would fit the academic profile of the Pac10. However, we would be every bit of the cultural outlier that BYU would be in the Pac10.

[rawlingsHOH]

2) Or.. the Big 12 can release Texas and make a stronger conference. Yeah, I'm talking bringing in better teams. This would be a major restructuring. Steal LSU & Arkansas away from the SEC. Then boot Teams like Iowa State, Colorado and Missouri. This would allow us to bring in BYU and TCU.


LOL

You'd be out of your MIND to trade Colorado or Mizzou for TCU

[SicEmBaylor]

LOL

You'd be out of your MIND to trade Colorado or Mizzou for TCU

Yep. It never ceases to amaze me.

[StoopTroup]

No, we won't be "fine" if Texas leaves the Big 12, unless you will be happy that we will be in a lower tier conference like the Big East.

Acting like the sky is falling because +exas is on the rag again is not the way for a Sooner to act. Man up.

[SoonerMom2]

Troyboy -- if you come from the Big 10 which it sounds like, you don't have a clue. If you come from Ohio, then you really are out to stir up trouble.

A&M and especially Nebraska will never bolt. All you have to do is see who at the Big 12 votes together and you see TX on the outside most of the time. OU and NE have been in the same conference for years and will never change.

Any comments about academics doesn't have a clue about OU and their standards and yes they are a research university -- one of the best public ones. So they don't have the east coast mentality at OU which is why a lot of Texas kids come to OU -- their parents don't want them to go to liberal Texas where whine is the name of the game if they don't get their way.

Big 10 will only bring someone in that OSU and MI think they can beat most of the time and you can take that to the bank. I grew up in Big 10 territory and no way their schools are going to want to bring in Texas and have to fly down to Austin. It is a regional conference if you haven't noticed.

Personally I would love to see UT bolt the Big 12. They were responsible for the Big 12 getting Baylor not TCU because they had trouble beating TCU over the years. TCU would be a very good addition as they are not liberal so we wouldn't have any liberal universities in the Big 12!

[PLaw]

There are many fallacious posts in this thread.

But, the Big XII cannot survive long without Texas and its television markets. It's not about competitive balance. It's not about "winning" (see Indiana reference).. It's about dollars and cents.

lidig8r - You a$$ume that +exas takes the entire TV market with it when it goes elsewhere. You seem to forget that 60-70% of the state's populace could care less and would be all to anxious to say "hey, hey, hey, GOODBYE!"

Certainly, former students from eATMe, tech exes and the privates would wish 'em well.

BOOMER

[bluedogok]

Texas had nothing to do with Baylor being in the Big 12, they are in because Lt. Gov. Bob Bullock (and Gov. Richards in a minor role) made it a condition (and the inclusion of Tech) for getting legislative approval for UT/A&M bolting the SWC for the Big 8. If Bullock/Richards hadn't of been in the positions they were, I doubt Baylor would have been a condition for approval. I think that being in the Big 12 helped UT and A&M more than it helped the Big 8 schools, they were pretty much an afterthought on the national scene in the Texas only SWC, being in the Big 12 helped their recruiting and national exposure. I lived in Dallas in the waning days of the SWC and their "regional broadcasts" were in the state of Texas only. I had to go to a sports bar in Addison to watch an OU-Colorado game because UT-Houston was on locally. In the SWC days no one was watching Texas games unless they were playing OU or some other national power and it was on nationwide broadcast.

I don't get the love for TCU being admitted in the conference, they don't bring anything to the conference and it would help them more than the other conference schools. I can see why BYU would have some appeal because they are the closest thing to a Notre Dame out there in terms of support for a religious based university. The other Protestant universities just don't have that kind of appeal to the majority of people, most Baptists go somewhere other than Baylor, Methodists/SMU or Church of Christ/TCU. they just don't have that same kind of pull with their denominations like ND or BYU.

I kind of look at it like I look at recruiting, if they go, so what, if they stay, so what. That said, they aren't going anywhere although if they did I don't think the A&M and Tech people of influence would be whining much about forcing themselves to go along with them this time. They might view it as getting rid of one of the road blocks in the South Division.

PLaw - I see a bunch of Whorn stuff living here but it seems since the population of Austin has exploded in size the majority don't care and are affiliated with other schools or have a disdain for college athletics in general, including some of the UT grads that I know. The majority of the people that I know went somewhere other than UT and have no affiliation with the university. I see quite a few around here with stuff on their cars or wearing other college stuff all the time, I have probably seen 50 or so different OU things just in the past week including a guy and his son walking into CVS with OU sweatshirts giving me the Whorns down sign. Many of the Whorn faithful seem to have this delusion that Austin is still a sleepy little college town which it is not and everybody is a Whorn backer, it is like Columbus, Ohio, a large city with a college in it.

[rawlingsHOH]

I don't get the love for TCU being admitted in the conference, they don't bring anything to the conference and it would help them more than the other conference schools. I can see why BYU would have some appeal because they are the closest thing to a Notre Dame out there in terms of support for a religious based university.

You are right. It is totally ridiculous!

I think it is simply based on outsider fans seeing their small conference football team in the polls the past few years. Besides that, it is a dry well. Money, support, appeal, non-existant.

[HBick]

OU to the SEC, kick out Kentucky and put us in. Keep the RRR or Bedlam as an out of conference game each season, works fine with me. Even if Texas did leave, do you really think the RRR would end? I don't. It's tradition, and if the board of regents had to pick Bedlam or RRR, they'd probably pick the RRR for the recruiting and national exposure.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

People keep talking about the Texas markets if UT leaves, but there is still A&M, so a mute point. OU to the SEC would make for a brutal schedule. OU to the Pac-10 for vacation destination road trips. Also, we are in good with the officiating crews over there, right?

[troyboy8ball]

SoonerMom, I grew up in Iowa as a huge Big 10 fan, and graduated from Texas, so I'm rooting for Texas to the Big 10, but am trying to see the pros and cons from all sides. You're wrong about several things, especially about Texas bringing Baylor into the Big 12 (already been debunked by several others), and about Michigan and Ohio State only allowing in a team they will beat. The Big 10 members want a school that will make everyone in the conference richer, and UT is one of the few that fits that bill. Go visit a few of the boards for the Big 10 teams, they love the idea of getting Texas.

Also, don't be so sure about Nebraska being a faithful partner to OU. There's a lot of sentiment in the Big Red to look at getting the Big 10 invite (at least among their fans). Don't blame Texas for this movement, blame Mizzou and Colorado for starting this.

Ultimately this is a decision that will be made by university presidents, not athletic directors, so you all need to stop thinking of this as a football decision and more in terms of $$$$$$$.

[mehip]

So, what exactly has Missouri and Colorado been whining about? I know Neb was never really comfortable with the way the Big 12 divisions were set up so I can see an argument from them.

[Soonermagik]

This thread has gotten comical.

Texas fans, please realize OU has a better program than you. We have more national titles and a better history. If you decide to bolt we won't be left holding any bag.

What conference wouldn't want one of the most dominant teams of the past decade? We have some of the best facilities, academics and tradition out there. In short, we are college football and everyone else is trying to keep up. Sure I'm a little biased, but you know the above is true.

If we can't put together a better conference then we will bolt to the SEC. Texas fans are right about one thing, it's all about money. What kind of money do you think an OU would bring to a conference???? The SEC would welcome us with arms wide open. They would gladly boot a Kentucky or Mississippi St.

Lastly, recruiting for Texas would be a lot more difficult. Telling kids they would be traveling non-stop to play games as far as Michigan isn't that appealing. Kids from warm sunny Texas playing in ice boxes like Ohio State and Iowa is a lot tougher sell.

[Texas_Longhorn]

First, TCU is not affliated with the Church of Christ but rather the Disciples of Christ. Abilene Christian is the biggest Church of Christ school in Texas.

Second,
Texas has a good program that's getting better, but it's not elite like OU. When Texas plays OU, they're a good program playing up to an elite program. LOL Keep telling yourself that. It's 2010 and Texas is now a dynasty and getting stronger. We have more revenue than any program in the nation and have a HUGE following: We have been #1 in the nation in mechandise sales for 3 or 4 years in a row.

Academically we are the top in the Big XII and we have big tv markets in our state and are a top draw nationally.

I would hate to lose the RRS as I love attending every year and consider it the best rivalry in the country.

[StoopTroup]

Second, LOL Keep telling yourself that. It's 2010 and Texas is now a dynasty and getting stronger. We have more revenue than any program in the nation and have a HUGE following: We have been #1 in the nation in mechandise sales for 3 or 4 years in a row.

Academically we are the top in the Big XII and we have big tv markets in our state and are a top draw nationally.

I would hate to lose the RRS as I love attending every year and consider it the best rivalry in the country.

LOL

You would hate to lose the RRSO because of the money. Stay on track with your own points.

Also...the only dynasty +exas is a part of is the dynasty of bevo ball sack lickers. You should put some Purell on your tongue right now.

[sooner518]

as much as I hate to admit it, I wouldnt want to see Texas leave for the Big 10. if they leave, what do we do? bolt for the SEC, Pac 10? Im not seeing either of those. Pac 10 would be ridiculous in terms of travel. the SEC kind of would as well. plus we'd have to play all those d00shbag SEC schools.

that said, I dont think Texas will go to the Big 10. seems like a negotiating ploy to get more $$$. im not losing any sleep over this one

[DakotaSooner]

If Texas jumps, we should bolt to the SEC

What?!?!?!?!?!.......no

[OU_Sooners75]

I think OU will be fine, as well, and maybe even be in a better position to go undefeated each year. But I think everyone needs to come to the realization that the Big 12 is going to have several defectors, and it's time to start thinking about how to pick up the pieces in a more proactive fashion.


This is where you actually think you are correct, but yet are wrong.

Texas is not going anywhere. They are in a wonderful spot. If you think this is about academics for them, then you are more stupid than you think you are. They want money...nothing more, nothing less.

They are posturing to get the Big 12 to get off their hands to get a TV deal, so they can make more money.

Hell, if I was OU would be right there along side them. I would be posturing to get more as well.

The Big 12 for the last 9 or 10 years has been a better conference in sports (and remember, that is why they have those things called conferences) than the PAC-10 and Big 10.

The only thing those two conferences have over the Big 12 right now is prestige, as in how long they have been around.

The same goes to Missouri, Colorado, and any other school.

If they wanted to leave, then they would have already done so since both Missouri and Colorado have been approached before.

[OU_Sooners75]

First, TCU is not affliated with the Church of Christ but rather the Disciples of Christ. Abilene Christian is the biggest Church of Christ school in Texas.

Second, LOL Keep telling yourself that. It's 2010 and Texas is now a dynasty and getting stronger. We have more revenue than any program in the nation and have a HUGE following: We have been #1 in the nation in mechandise sales for 3 or 4 years in a row.

Academically we are the top in the Big XII and we have big tv markets in our state and are a top draw nationally.

I would hate to lose the RRS as I love attending every year and consider it the best rivalry in the country.


3 Big 12 conference titles in 14 years and 1 National title every 41 years does not make you a dynasty.

[troyboy8ball]

This is where you actually think you are correct, but yet are wrong.

Texas is not going anywhere. They are in a wonderful spot. If you think this is about academics for them, then you are more stupid than you think you are. They want money...nothing more, nothing less.

They are posturing to get the Big 12 to get off their hands to get a TV deal, so they can make more money.

Hell, if I was OU would be right there along side them. I would be posturing to get more as well.

The Big 12 for the last 9 or 10 years has been a better conference in sports (and remember, that is why they have those things called conferences) than the PAC-10 and Big 10.

The only thing those two conferences have over the Big 12 right now is prestige, as in how long they have been around.

The same goes to Missouri, Colorado, and any other school.

If they wanted to leave, then they would have already done so since both Missouri and Colorado have been approached before.


Colorado was approached back in the mid-90's, before the founding of the Big 12, but when has Missouri ever been approached before? I'm not even sure they were approached this time; the Big 10 announced that they were considering expanding, and Missouri raised their hand and said "ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me!".

Also, there's something else the Big 10 has over the Big 12, and that's a much richer TV contract (and a much larger population base). I think it's foolish to just assume that Texas and Nebraska and A&M would never leave the Big 12. It's every man for himself at this point, and every Big 12 school needs to be looking out for their own interest, because the Big 12 member schools certainly don't seem to have any loyalty to each other.

[silverwheels]

I hope that the posters suggesting we bolt for the SEC if Texas leaves aren't serious. That's not happening. Any way you slice it, if any of Colorado, Missouri, or Texas leave, this conference will take a big hit, not just in TV markets and in the classroom, but on the field. Out of the possible solutions, BYU would be the best replacement option, and then after that there is practically nothing.

That being said, I could see Colorado or Missouri leaving before Texas does. Hopefully everyone stays put, although apparently the Big 12 doesn't care.

[OU_Sooners75]

Colorado was approached back in the mid-90's, before the founding of the Big 12, but when has Missouri ever been approached before? I'm not even sure they were approached this time; the Big 10 announced that they were considering expanding, and Missouri raised their hand and said "ooh, ooh, pick me, pick me!".

Also, there's something else the Big 10 has over the Big 12, and that's a much richer TV contract (and a much larger population base). I think it's foolish to just assume that Texas and Nebraska and A&M would never leave the Big 12. It's every man for himself at this point, and every Big 12 school needs to be looking out for their own interest, because the Big 12 member schools certainly don't seem to have any loyalty to each other.

Who said they never would?

Nebraska would not leave the conference OU is in. They have been in a conference with each other for 80 years.

I agree and I think that is what was mentioned. Money. The Big 10 has that TV contract...and that is what I was referring to when I think Texas is posturing for the big 12 to do the same thing.

And if you really think it is every man for himself in the Big 12, you are pretty ignorant to the traditions of the old Missouri Valley/Big6/Big8/Big12 conference.

Traditions to many of these schools hold more weight than some pussified conference showing up throwing money at a school to get them to come along with them.

Texas, for all I care can go, and same for A&M. The Big 8 was one the strongest conferences before the Texass schools came along...and the Big 12 will survive without Texas and/or A&M.

[OUDizzle]

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7067/800pxdkrwilkinson.jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

I realize that money makes the world go 'round, but maybe we are overplaying it.

Suppose the Big-8 had never dissolved. What effect would that have today on the OU football team? Would we be 3-8 with only 40,000 fans showing up?

In other words, if UT leaves the Big-12 and we replace it with BYU, would the sun come up tomorrow?

What's with the pic of Wilkinson and Royal?

[StoopTroup]

I think it's foolish to just assume that Texas and Nebraska and A&M would never leave the Big 12.

It's just as foolish to think it's going to happen just because the internet has a bunch of folks throwing around rumors and there are some sports writers out there adding to it.

[Leroyt]

lidig8r - You a$$ume that +exas takes the entire TV market with it when it goes elsewhere. You seem to forget that 60-70% of the state's populace could care less and would be all to anxious to say "hey, hey, hey, GOODBYE!"

Certainly, former students from eATMe, tech exes and the privates would wish 'em well.
Only problem with that is, eaTme had one game on television this year outside of that sad excuse for a bowl game, and tech without an entertaining team (no leach) becomes Baylor-ish (boring team in a smaller market). I don't think Texas is leaving, but thinking that they don't own the Texas tv markets is not thinking. Also, the idea that Texas recruits would shy away from games up north (in places like the big house and happy valley) is hardly defensible. Hell the couch fires alone at ohio state games raises the temp 30 degrees.:D

[Sabanball]

...We'll let you guys have Arkansas as a replacement.;)

Seriously, Arkansas has never really fit in well with us. The people, culture, and geographic proximity all seem to point to them being a better team for the Big 12. Road trips to Fayetteville are a nightmare for us, but wouldn't be for you guys.

[StoopTroup]

...We'll let you guys have Arkansas as a replacement.;)

Seriously, Arkansas has never really fit in well with us. The people, culture, and geographic proximity all seem to point to them being a better team for the Big 12. Road trips to Fayetteville are a nightmare for us, but wouldn't be for you guys.

True enough but you have to take +exas.

[reevie]

True enough but you have to take +exas.

And beat them soundly on a regular basis

[Leroy Lizard]

Seriously, Arkansas has never really fit in well with us. The people, culture, and geographic proximity all seem to point to them being a better team for the Big 12.

Oh gee, thanks a lot! When have we ever insulted you?

[OU_Sooners75]

I realize that money makes the world go 'round, but maybe we are overplaying it.

Suppose the Big-8 had never dissolved. What effect would that have today on the OU football team? Would we be 3-8 with only 40,000 fans showing up?

In other words, if UT leaves the Big-12 and we replace it with BYU, would the sun come up tomorrow?

What's with the pic of Wilkinson and Royal?


First lets get one thing straight.

The Big 8 did not dissolve. The SWC did. The Big 8 wanted expansion if memory does serve correctly and the SWC was a pathetic conference. Was not too hard for one of the strongest and tradition rich conferences (Big 8) to pull Texas, A&M, Tech, and Baylor away from the dying SWC.

Look, if Texas leaves the Big 12, it does get a little weaker. However, it would not be a Flailing conference like the Big East is.

If we threw in BYU, I think it bumps up a little more than if we throw in TCU or any other school.

BYU has the second largest following when it comes to religious nut jobs.

[Leroy Lizard]

First lets get one thing straight.

The Big 8 did not dissolve. The SWC did. The Big 8 wanted expansion if memory does serve correctly and the SWC was a pathetic conference. Was not too hard for one of the strongest and tradition rich conferences (Big 8) to pull Texas, A&M, Tech, and Baylor away from the dying SWC.

Fair enough.


Look, if Texas leaves the Big 12, it does get a little weaker. However, it would not be a Flailing conference like the Big East is.

Let's suppose the Big-12 ends up like the Big East. So what?

Seriously, is Florida State harmed in any meaningful way by being in the Big East?

[Sooner70]

C'mon folks. Be real. If Texas leaves the Big 12, the sky will not fall. There are plenty of good programs who would jump at the chance to enter the B12. If Texas is stupid enough to leave, so be it. They're gonna find the road games, regional disinterest in them, and their schedule pure hell. A just reward for such a bunch of "entitled" whiners. Besides, I think it'll help OU in recruiting.

( I really did like Colt McCoy and wisht he coulda played the entire NC game.)

[TexasLidig8r]

This is where you actually think you are correct, but yet are wrong.

Texas is not going anywhere. They are in a wonderful spot. If you think this is about academics for them, then you are more stupid than you think you are. They want money...nothing more, nothing less.

Actually, academics would be bolstered as well.

From another website:

Joining the Big 10 would appease a lot of the folks in the Tower, because they would also be joining another prestigous organization.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp162/srr50/Jan-Mar-2010/cicbanner.png
The Committee on Institutional Cooperation
The Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC) is the academic consortium of the universities in the Big Ten Conference plus the University of Chicago. It is a collaborative effort among the Universities to share in such areas as library resources, information technology, as well as enhanced opportunities for faculty and staff networking.
It also is strong player in research. CIC members engage in $6 billion in funded research, receiving some 12 percent of the total federal research funds awarded annually.
Making a move to the Big 10 would be an easier sell to the faculty and staff of UT than any other move.


They are posturing to get the Big 12 to get off their hands to get a TV deal, so they can make more money.

The problem facing the Big XII, is that only the FSN television contract is up in 2011-2012. The agreement with ABC runs through 2016. That means, ABC gets first pick of the elite games. Whether its FSN or someone else, they will be negotiating for the leftover games.. and that means.. fewer potential dollars.

Hell, if I was OU would be right there along side them. I would be posturing to get more as well.

The Big 12 for the last 9 or 10 years has been a better conference in sports (and remember, that is why they have those things called conferences) than the PAC-10 and Big 10.

The conference discussion is not about sports. It's about dollars and cents. And, the decision is NOT being made by athletic directors. It's being made by university presidents and boards of regents.

The only thing those two conferences have over the Big 12 right now is prestige, as in how long they have been around.

Again.. false. Granted, the Big XII right now pulls in more television revenue than the Pac 10.. but.. is far behind the Big 10/11.

The same goes to Missouri, Colorado, and any other school.

If they wanted to leave, then they would have already done so since both Missouri and Colorado have been approached before.

Agreed with the other poster on your last point. Misery has not been approached but instead, like the petulant child in a classroom, is standing on its desk, waiving its arm in the air, chanting.."pick me."

On the other hand, nothing is likely to happen for the next 6 - 12 months.

[Frozen Sooner]

Seriously, is Florida State harmed in any meaningful way by being in the Big East?

Fairly conclusively no, since Florida State is in the ACC.

[bluedogok]

Seriously, is Florida State harmed in any meaningful way by being in the Big East?


Fairly conclusively no, since Florida State is in the ACC.
Yep, FSU was added to the ACC in 1991, they were in the Metro Conference before. Miami was in the Big East when the ACC raided them, Virginia Tech (2004) and Boston College (2005).

[Leroy Lizard]

Okay, I was a little sleepy. How about...


Seriously, is Florida State harmed in any meaningful way by being in the ACC?

[badger]

The only sports that the "Big 10 + Texas = Win" makes sense for are the major ones - football and both basketball teams.

However, Texas has tons more programs than that. It's the reason they brought in so many Olympic medals in Beijing. It would be way too costly for them to be in the Big 10 for non-revenue sports to make the few revenue producing ones worthwhile.

But hey, that's what you've all been saying so far, and Texas fans have too, so good for you all... this is such a non-issue.

[Leroy Lizard]

How does Hawaii afford all the travel?

[TexasLidig8r]

The only sports that the "Big 10 + Texas = Win" makes sense for are the major ones - football and both basketball teams.

However, Texas has tons more programs than that. It's the reason they brought in so many Olympic medals in Beijing. It would be way too costly for them to be in the Big 10 for non-revenue sports to make the few revenue producing ones worthwhile.

But hey, that's what you've all been saying so far, and Texas fans have too, so good for you all... this is such a non-issue.

Again.. look at my post above where information regarding the CIC is included.

The CIC gets 12% of 6 BILLION in federal grants and monies. That is $720 million... annually. Divide that by the 13 member programs (12 in the Big 10/11 plus the University of Chicago).. and that is about $56 MILLION dollars annually coming to the University of Texas.. from membership in the CIC. Along with greater television revenue and getting the alleged Texas Longhorn network off the ground in the State.. you could be looking at as much as 70 MILLION dollars annually.. from making the move.

Still think it doesn't make financial sense?

[MI Sooner]

OU alum here, and you people discussing academics need to pull your heads out of your asses.

OU has greatly improved its academics in recent years, to the point where its the entrance exam scores of its undergrads would make it competitive in any conference. However, its reputation and grad school aren't nearly up to snuff for a conference that places any importance on academics, and grad programs are where the $$$ are.

[Sabanball]

Oh gee, thanks a lot! When have we ever insulted you?


I think you misunderstood my comment. I didn't mean anything negative in what I said, just that the culture and people in northwestern Arkansas have more in common with the Big 12 fan base than they do with us folks down here in SEC Land. Hence, I think they would be a better fit for your conference. But, considering the huge amount of money that flows to Fayetteville every year because they ARE in the SEC, I doubt they will bolt anytime soon.

[Frozen Sooner]

How does Hawaii afford all the travel?

Part of the answer is they don't. The NCAA gives teams huge incentives to play at Hawaii so that they don't have to travel as much.

[TexasLidig8r]

I think you misunderstood my comment. I didn't mean anything negative in what I said, just that the culture and people in northwestern Arkansas have more in common with the Big 12 fan base than they do with us folks down here in SEC Land. Hence, I think they would be a better fit for your conference. But, considering the huge amount of money that flows to Fayetteville every year because they ARE in the SEC, I doubt they will bolt anytime soon.

Arkansas.. let's see... rampant in-breeding.... lack of teeth, the extent of their cultural identity is wrapped in supporting their in-state team, weak academics..

No.. looks like a perfect fit for the SEC.. as long as they learn to cheat a little bit more. :D

[silverwheels]

Arkansas is going to have to start cheating hardcore if they want to be competitive in the SEC.

[TMcGee86]

The SEC would welcome us with arms wide open. They would gladly boot a Kentucky or Mississippi St.

:rolleyes: Riiiiight, they would gladly boot a founding member for a team farther away with no ties to the conference and force the conference to completely revamp it's divisions. I see that happening.

There is no way the SEC would welcome us with open arms. It's not happening.

If UT leaves the Big12 will be hurt there can be no doubt about this. And to put it simply there is no team out there that could fill the void. Now it wont fold up shop because lets be honest here, the Pac10 has almost always been a one school league and they are fine, but we would lose a ton of national and tv appeal.

[Sabanball]

:rolleyes: Riiiiight, they would gladly boot a founding member for a team farther away with no ties to the conference and force the conference to completely revamp it's divisions. I see that happening.

There is no way the SEC would welcome us with open arms. It's not happening.

If UT leaves the Big12 will be hurt there can be no doubt about this. And to put it simply there is no team out there that could fill the void. Now it wont fold up shop because lets be honest here, the Pac10 has almost always been a one school league and they are fine, but we would lose a ton of national and tv appeal.

I'd gladly trade Arkansas for you guys. Heck, imagine that--Bama and OU would play every year and both be members of the SEC West. Talk about a new rivalry--now that would be something....

[Leroy Lizard]

I didn't mean anything negative in what I said, just that the culture and people in northwestern Arkansas have more in common with the Big 12 fan base than they do with us folks down here in SEC Land.

Again, what did we ever do to deserve such insults?

[Soonermagik]

:rolleyes: Riiiiight, they would gladly boot a founding member for a team farther away with no ties to the conference and force the conference to completely revamp it's divisions. I see that happening.

There is no way the SEC would welcome us with open arms. It's not happening.

If UT leaves the Big12 will be hurt there can be no doubt about this. And to put it simply there is no team out there that could fill the void. Now it wont fold up shop because lets be honest here, the Pac10 has almost always been a one school league and they are fine, but we would lose a ton of national and tv appeal.

Dude, it's not about loyalty, it's about money. An OU added to LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennesse and Auburn would be a super conference.

If the SEC booted Miss. St. they would still have Ole Miss. An Oklahoma would bring in all of the Oklahoma market. Plus, they would add in a large portion of the Texas area too.

If Texas were to leave it's not out of the realm of possiblity that OU could go to the SEC. It may be more reasonable to believe that they would add another team to account for their loss i.e. a BYU. One things for sure, it would mean OU would have a great shot at running the table every year. OU would have to schedule tougher home/home series for strength of schedule for national perception.

[OU_Sooners75]

Fair enough.



Let's suppose the Big-12 ends up like the Big East. So what?

Seriously, is Florida State harmed in any meaningful way by being in the Big East?


Florida State is in the ACC. Not sure what you mean.

[OU_Sooners75]

Dude, it's not about loyalty, it's about money. An OU added to LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennesse and Auburn would be a super conference.

If the SEC booted Miss. St. they would still have Ole Miss. An Oklahoma would bring in all of the Oklahoma market. Plus, they would add in a large portion of the Texas area too.

If Texas were to leave it's not out of the realm of possiblity that OU could go to the SEC. It may be more reasonable to believe that they would add another team to account for their loss i.e. a BYU. One things for sure, it would mean OU would have a great shot at running the table every year. OU would have to schedule tougher home/home series for strength of schedule for national perception.

Kinda like how Florida tries to use the SEC when schedule the Florida School for the Blind and the Citadels?

[OU_Sooners75]

Agreed with the other poster on your last point. Misery has not been approached but instead, like the petulant child in a classroom, is standing on its desk, waiving its arm in the air, chanting.."pick me."

On the other hand, nothing is likely to happen for the next 6 - 12 months.


And yet you do not need to be a member of the Big 10 to be a member of the CIC.

Unless U of Chicago is a Big 10 member somehow.

The Big 10 is an athletic conference. The CIC is the academic counterpart to the athletics.

[Frozen Sooner]

And yet you do not need to be a member of the Big 10 to be a member of the CIC.

Unless U of Chicago is a Big 10 member somehow.

The Big 10 is an athletic conference. The CIC is the academic counterpart to the athletics.

The University of Chicago used to be in the Big Ten a long time ago. They left because they felt it was hurting their academic image.

[OU_Sooners75]

The University of Chicago used to be in the Big Ten a long time ago. They left because they felt it was hurting their academic image.


They have not been in the Big 10 since 1939, after the formation of the CIC....hmmmm

So now you know why they left. Jeez....you are just a walking encyclopedia.

Please share your wisdom ol' wise sage.

[Sabanball]

Again, what did we ever do to deserve such insults?

LL, I'm sorry but you've lost me on this one. PM me and explain what exactly you are talking about.:confused:

[Frozen Sooner]

They have not been in the Big 10 since 1939, after the formation of the CIC....hmmmm

So now you know why they left. Jeez....you are just a walking encyclopedia.

Please share your wisdom ol' wise sage.

Excuse me?

[starclassic tama]

glad i'm not the only one who has no idea what the hell 75 is even talking about half the time

[OU_Sooners75]

Excuse me?


You seem to know everything...just wanting you to pass the wisdom on.

[yankee]

Soonerscuba, good points. I wasn't trying to say that OU was a bad school academically, just that there are certain requirements - in the Big 10 especially - that OU doesn't meet, such as AAU membership and being considered a "research school". I'm just regurgitating information I've read on other sites, so if I'm wrong about the AAU status and research capabilities, please let me know.

for a "research school", texas would still be in the bottom half of the big televen in research expenditures...you're pretty delusional if you think that texas would want to go to the big 10 for academics, or that the big 10 wants texas because of their academics.

[Leroy Lizard]

glad i'm not the only one who has no idea what the hell 75 is even talking about half the time

Not the only one? Find me anyone that has figured out what the Hell he's talking about, including 75.

[Frozen Sooner]

You seem to know everything...just wanting you to pass the wisdom on.

Any particular reason for this, or just looking to pick a fight?

[TexasLidig8r]

for a "research school", texas would still be in the bottom half of the big televen in research expenditures...you're pretty delusional if you think that texas would want to go to the big 10 for academics, or that the big 10 wants texas because of their academics.

Perhaps those Big Ten schools have spent more in research.. because of the CIC.

Yes.. I can see how the Big 10 would not want a Tier One university (ranked 15th nationally among public universities)..whose business, engineering and law schools are always ranked in the top 10 nationally and whose medical school and program is one of the biggest in the west, as well as having 4 graduate programs ranked first in the nation... oh and be sure and ignore the Bloomberg survey that ranked Texas first among business schools for the largest number of alumni who are S & P 500 CEOs.

I can see how they would not look at the fact that Texas has been an AAU member since 1929... our academic research annually tops $520 million (again, this is without any CIC money)... we have the largest university art museum in the US... as well as 7 museums and 17 libraries which have a combined 8 million volumes.. including 1 of only 21 known Gutenberg Bibles to exist in the world...

But.. Nooooo... the Big 10 schools would have no academic interest in Texas at all. :rolleyes:

Dude.. stick to your coloring books.

[Partial Qualifier]

Questions:

- Do we have any proof at all that the Big 10 is seriously considering an invitation extension to Texas or Missouri? And I mean something more substantial than "my cousin knows someone on the board of regents and he said . . . ." ???

- Wouldn't "conference expansions" be more about sports and TV contracts than academics? I mean sure, they won't extend an invitation to an academic failure of a school, but wouldn't a regionally significant university make more sense than the addition of a relative outpost?

- Why would the Big 10 be willing to share this CIC-driven endowment with Texas or Missouri? Again, what would the Big 10 gain in this regard?

[TexasLidig8r]

Questions:

- Do we have any proof at all that the Big 10 is seriously considering an invitation extension to Texas or Missouri? And I mean something more substantial than "my cousin knows someone on the board of regents and he said . . . ." ???

Nope. It's the off season though where rampant, unsubstantiated rumors flourish. Actually, the Big 10/11 has stated it is looking at expansion but for the next 6 - 12 months, they are doing the internal due diligence. Missouri was mentioned because as soon as that announcement was made, Misery jumped up and stated, "take me."

- Wouldn't "conference expansions" be more about sports and TV contracts than academics? I mean sure, they won't extend an invitation to an academic failure of a school, but wouldn't a regionally significant university make more sense than the addition of a relative outpost?

With travel and the internet being what they are, there are no true "outposts" as we used to know them. If you have an academically elite university, consistently ranked high every year with an established reputation of being a recognized research institution... you consider that university.

- Why would the Big 10 be willing to share this CIC-driven endowment with Texas or Missouri? Again, what would the Big 10 gain in this regard?

In terms of Texas, the CIC institutions would gain access to an established, nationally recognized research university that up to this point, it does not have access to... it would have affliation to a university whose law, business, engineering and medical programs are all in the top 10 -15 in the nation.

[StoopTroup]

In terms of Texas, the CIC institutions would gain access to an established, nationally recognized research university that up to this point, it does not have access to... it would have affliation to a university whose law, business, engineering and medical programs are all in the top 10 -15 in the nation.

With stuff like that....It's amazing that Bama still won.

[rainiersooner]

With stuff like that....It's amazing that Bama still won.

Well, they won...but with an *.

[StoopTroup]

If Colt had been a Rhodes Scholar...Bama would have gotten crushed

[OU_Sooners75]

Any particular reason for this, or just looking to pick a fight?


If I was wishing to pick a fight, it would have been a lot more abusive than that.

Need smilies and stuff when someone is messin with you?


:gary::):(:confused::mad::texan::D;):O:P:rolleyes: :cool::hot::pop::eek:

Having fun...stop being so freaking uptight...unless of course it is true?


I was also curious as to why U of Chicago left the Big 10. Since you seem to know, thought you might share it.

[swardboy]

Dale Carnegie, anyone?

[kiomanche]

Whatever happens to texas, they still Suk!!

[TexasLidig8r]

With stuff like that....It's amazing that Bama still won.

I will type this very slowly with the hope you may better understand this. . .

We are discussing academics at this point and not athletics.

If you cannot keep up, then please sit there quietly and let the adults continue with our interaction.

mmmkay?

[Frozen Sooner]

If I was wishing to pick a fight, it would have been a lot more abusive than that.

Need smilies and stuff when someone is messin with you?


:gary::):(:confused::mad::texan::D;):O:P:rolleyes: :cool::hot::pop::eek:

Having fun...stop being so freaking uptight...unless of course it is true?


I was also curious as to why U of Chicago left the Big 10. Since you seem to know, thought you might share it.

Your phraseology was implying that I was a know-it-all. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were honestly asking a question.

I gave you the reason why they left the Big Ten (or at least what I was told it was.) They thought their association with the Big Ten was tarnishing their academic reputation. Part of that was they thought football was being overemphasized-notice who the first Heisman winner was and where he went to school.

[rainiersooner]

I will type this very slowly with the hope you may better understand this. . .

We are discussing academics at this point and not athletics.

If you cannot keep up, then please sit there quietly and let the adults continue with our interaction.

mmmkay?

************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** *********************************************

[OU_Sooners75]

Your phraseology was implying that I was a know-it-all. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were honestly asking a question.

I gave you the reason why they left the Big Ten (or at least what I was told it was.) They thought their association with the Big Ten was tarnishing their academic reputation. Part of that was they thought football was being overemphasized-notice who the first Heisman winner was and where he went to school.

Thank you.

I am not saying you are wrong...because I have never heard and this is the first time I have heard any reason why they left.

With that stated, that seems a little ridiculous if that is the reason they left the Big 10. They stayed part of the CIC yet left the Big 10.

Edit:

After looking it up, they did not field a football team from 1940-1962. Which frankly after looking at their record, I am not surprised that they did so. They were horrid at the sport the last 20 years before dropping it.

That is the football part...any idea if they dropped sports altogether in that time frame?

[pilobolus]

Let Texas secede completely, or better yet give it back to Mexico.

[Jello Biafra]

Weaker?

Maybe. It just depends on who replaces them. Both Mizzou and +exas are just unhappy with some things. I would imagine most of it is money. Everyone knows that winning is how you make more money. What I've seen happening is fan bases turning on each other when their rival is playing outside the conference. The two biggest are Mizzou and +exas. So...when you say the Conference will suffer if they leave...I'd say we are already suffering. Mizzou and +exas should be told to not let the door hit them in the *** IMO.

There are plenty of other Schools to take their place. If Mizzou wants to break a longtime tradition for the unknown and bolt...so be it. I say don't let +exas posture it's position because of Mizzou's sudden unhappiness. I could care less what +exas thinks and if they want to leave....let them. Hell...if they mention it once more....boot them the **** out for that matter. If it ended up giving a death blow to the RRSO because of it...so be it. Their arrogance and money is all that gets them attention anyway.

Yeah the Big XII Conference might have a bad year or a couple of bad years and we might have to adjust schedules and renegoiate some games but I'd say that we could just make +exas pay everyone for the losses if they really wanted out.

I think a trillion dollars would cover it.


i dont think its an unknown to mizzou...they have been playng illinois regularly now and have been beating them ( :rolleyes: )... what have they done in the big XII before or after boogerman? nothing and nothing. quite simply, they want to be in a conference where they are the perrenial powerhouse and right now, they aint it. and they know they aint EVER gonna be it. if by some chance they ARE it, they will face either texas or OU in the big XII championship...solidifying the fact that they AINT it.

[49r]

Again.. look at my post above where information regarding the CIC is included.

The CIC gets 12% of 6 BILLION in federal grants and monies. That is $720 million... annually. Divide that by the 13 member programs (12 in the Big 10/11 plus the University of Chicago).. and that is about $56 MILLION dollars annually coming to the University of Texas.. from membership in the CIC. Along with greater television revenue and getting the alleged Texas Longhorn network off the ground in the State.. you could be looking at as much as 70 MILLION dollars annually.. from making the move.

Still think it doesn't make financial sense?

You make it sound as if this would be found money (not just for Texas, but for any institution that would potentially join the CIC). But in reality, isn't the Committee on Institutional Cooperation just a means whereby the member institutions share the grant monies they receive -- instead of keeping it themselves? I mean, that's how I understand the process works.

Furthermore, isn't UTexas one of the nations' leading recipients of government grant money (also, one of the nations' largest endowments if not THE largest endowment belonging to a public university is UTexas')?

From Wikipedia:

Except for MIT, UT Austin attracts more federal research grants than any American university without a medical school. For FY 2009, the university exceeded $590 million in research funding and has earned more than 400 patents since its founding. UT Austin houses the Office of Technology Commercialization, a technology transfer center which serves as the bridge between laboratory research and commercial development. In 2008, UT Austin created 10 new startup companies to commercialize technology developed at the university and has created 37 startups in the past six years. UT Austin license agreements generated $11.6 million in revenue for the university in 2008.


The university has an endowment of $7.2 billion, out of the $16.11 billion (according to 2008 estimates) available to the University of Texas. This figure reflects the fact that the school has the largest endowment of any public university in the nation.

The university is one of only two public universities in the U.S. that have a triple-A credit rating from all three major credit rating agencies, along with the University of Virginia.

So, I guess my thinking on the matter of UTexas joining the CIC would be that UTexas would be asked to SHARE the grants it receives with other member institutions, and because they are the leading recipient of grant money among public institutions, a move to the Big Ten (and therefore the CIC) would actually COST UTexas money. Not necessarily the financial windfall that you make it out to be.

This is why I personally believe the regents would be hesitant to make a move like this. IIRC, it's why Notre Dame declined the Big Ten's invitation back in the 90's. They didn't want to get involved with the CIC because it would cost them $$$.

I mean, I could be wrong, and correct me if I am. But I'm not seeing where the Big Ten member institutions are receiving additional dollars to the grant monies they already receive simply because of the CIC.

[49r]

Oh, and BTW, this is misleading...well factually incorrect, actually...



The CIC gets 12% of 6 BILLION in federal grants and monies. That is $720 million... annually. Divide that by the 13 member programs (12 in the Big 10/11 plus the University of Chicago)..


again, from Wikipedia:

CIC members engage in $6 billion in funded research, receiving some 12 percent of the total federal research funds awarded annually (18 percent of the National Science Foundation total, and 15.7 percent of the USDA total).

So what you meant to say is this.

"The CIC gets 6 BILLION in federal grants and monies. This is 12% of all the federal grant research money doled out in a given year. Divide that by the 12 member programs (11 in the Big 10/11 plus the University of Chicago).." And here is where the numbers come out to approximately $500 million per member institution.

I'm just sayin'

[OU44life]

Excellent points 49r. Great insight!

[Soonermagik]

You make it sound as if this would be found money (not just for Texas, but for any institution that would potentially join the CIC). But in reality, isn't the Committee on Institutional Cooperation just a means whereby the member institutions share the grant monies they receive -- instead of keeping it themselves? I mean, that's how I understand the process works.

Furthermore, isn't UTexas one of the nations' leading recipients of government grant money (also, one of the nations' largest endowments if not THE largest endowment belonging to a public university is UTexas')?

From Wikipedia:




So, I guess my thinking on the matter of UTexas joining the CIC would be that UTexas would be asked to SHARE the grants it receives with other member institutions, and because they are the leading recipient of grant money among public institutions, a move to the Big Ten (and therefore the CIC) would actually COST UTexas money. Not necessarily the financial windfall that you make it out to be.

This is why I personally believe the regents would be hesitant to make a move like this. IIRC, it's why Notre Dame declined the Big Ten's invitation back in the 90's. They didn't want to get involved with the CIC because it would cost them $$$.

I mean, I could be wrong, and correct me if I am. But I'm not seeing where the Big Ten member institutions are receiving additional dollars to the grant monies they already receive simply because of the CIC.

If this is true, then I see no reason for them to even consider it as an option.

It does all seem like posturing to get more money out of the Big 12. I would laugh if the Big 12 calls their bluff and they end up losing money, playing a million miles away in ice boxes. Your move.... Texas!!

[49r]

If this is true, then I see no reason for them to even consider it as an option.

It does all seem like posturing to get more money out of the Big 12. I would laugh if the Big 12 calls their bluff and they end up losing money, playing a million miles away in ice boxes. Your move.... Texas!!

Right. As I see it, UTexas would lose approximately $80 million per year by getting involved with the CIC. The extra $10 million they would potentially receive from the bigger television contract wouldn't offset that loss by a long shot. Particularly when one considers the additional money it would cost to travel to away games - especially for the olympic sports.

Not to mention - there's no reason that the Big XII can't leverage a better television deal, either by getting more money from ABC/ESPN or creating their own network (rumors abound about the Big XII partnering with the ACC or Pac 10 to form a broadcast network like the Big Ten network).

It simply makes no sense for a financial juggernaut like UTexas to move to the Big Ten as far as I can tell.

Now the Pac 10 on the other hand...

[TexasLidig8r]

You make it sound as if this would be found money (not just for Texas, but for any institution that would potentially join the CIC). But in reality, isn't the Committee on Institutional Cooperation just a means whereby the member institutions share the grant monies they receive -- instead of keeping it themselves? I mean, that's how I understand the process works.

No, that's not how the process works as I understand it. Some of the grants and funding come from collaberative grants on projects too extensive for one university. These collaberative efforts are awarded federal funds and grants. The traveling scholar program is well received and big as well.

Here's an article going into it a bit...

http://www.cic.net/Libraries/Reports/ResearchCollaborationOpportunitiesForCIC.sflb.ashx

Furthermore, isn't UTexas one of the nations' leading recipients of government grant money (also, one of the nations' largest endowments if not THE largest endowment belonging to a public university is UTexas')?

Yes

From Wikipedia:




So, I guess my thinking on the matter of UTexas joining the CIC would be that UTexas would be asked to SHARE the grants it receives with other member institutions, and because they are the leading recipient of grant money among public institutions, a move to the Big Ten (and therefore the CIC) would actually COST UTexas money. Not necessarily the financial windfall that you make it out to be.

No. The CIC funds would be above and beyond that which Texas already receives. There is the traveling scholar program and collaberative research that Texas would be able to particpate in... doors that are closed right now. So.. no.. it would not cost Texas money.

This is why I personally believe the regents would be hesitant to make a move like this. IIRC, it's why Notre Dame declined the Big Ten's invitation back in the 90's. They didn't want to get involved with the CIC because it would cost them $$$.

Notre Dame declined because their TV contract then exceeded the Big 10 television contract, they could still play a "national schedule" and be regarded as a "national university."

I mean, I could be wrong, and correct me if I am. But I'm not seeing where the Big Ten member institutions are receiving additional dollars to the grant monies they already receive simply because of the CIC.

Yes, ok. Certainly additional funds come in because of collaberative research projects... a pool of funds available for these projects. Then there is the CourseShare and Shared Digital Repository. Apparently, the CIC universities number approximately 80 million volumes in their shared libraries. Texas would add at least 8 million volumes to this.

It also provides individual scholarships and grants to students. These scholarships and grants are limited to CIC universities.

In short, more academic opportunities.

[49r]

Yes, ok. Certainly additional funds come in because of collaberative research projects... a pool of funds available for these projects. Then there is the CourseShare and Shared Digital Repository. Apparently, the CIC universities number approximately 80 million volumes in their shared libraries. Texas would add at least 8 million volumes to this.

It also provides individual scholarships and grants to students. These scholarships and grants are limited to CIC universities.

In short, more academic opportunities.

Thanks for the link, it was very informative. It appears that the CIC is actually a nebulous organization and is basically an avenue for resource and not necessarily revenue sharing. IOW, the total grants each organization receives probably aren't affected, or at least not much but research projects can be collaborated on by member institutions - perhaps opening up a few new research opportunities (but in Texas' case, I doubt it would be many, seeing as much as they already have and the ones they do have may not exactly jibe with a lot of the stuff being worked on in the upper midwest - such as ag engineering).

It might actually hurt UTexas academically, while helping the Big Ten some save Michigan, Northwestern, and Chicago. But I don't see that there could be much for UTexas to gain here. Certainly not much if any additional grant revenue.

It also appears that an institution does not necessarily need to be an official member of CIC to engage in collaborative research either - Iowa State, Stanford, University of New Mexico, UTexas and others are mentioned as collaborative partners in a few projects already.

So my take away from reading this article is that there is no real immediate revenue boost simply from joining. Perhaps a slight decline due to necessary infrastructure building. Also, there may be a shift in research goals from an institutional level, I doubt Big Ten schools are as heavy into DOE grants as UTexas undoubtedly is.

And finally, yes it's true that Notre Dame had a sweetheart contract with NBC during the time they were in negotiations with the Big Ten, I don't think that was a dealbreaker necessarily back then. As I recall (and I was following the situation closely at the time because I was really hoping to see ND move to the Big Ten) the major stumbling block was involvement with the CIC. Notre Dame didn't want to participate and that was a no-go for the Big Ten.