Colorado seriously

[madillsoonerfan5353]

Utah to the Pac-10?
11:20
AM ETUtah Utes Top Email Utah might be headed to the Pac-10. A report from ABC4 in Salt Lake City says Utah will be invited to the Pac-10 conference, while BYU was left out of the guest list.

But there's a long way to go before any of this happens. The Pac-10 has to first decide that they are expanding, like the Big Ten. Then they might invite two schools to their conference to allow for a conference championship and a better scheduling format. ABC4 speculates that Utah and Colorado might be the two additions.

The TV station adds: "The Pac-10 TV deal is about to expire, and a new TV partner would want the league to have a football championship game, which requires the league to have 12 teams."

I think that BYU would be a better choice, but maybe they don't want sc to play very many hard teams!

[soonervegas]

I think I posted on a previous alignment posting that I do think this will happen and the Big 12 will pick up BYU.

Colorado will jump at a Pac-10 invite.

[fwsooner22]

No way pick up TCU and send OSU to the north.

[KantoSooner]

I'd gag at BYU. Makes more sense to get TCU, or Houston, or even Tulsa. Hell, take Tulane and make inroads into Ess EEEEE Ceee land.

[badger]

The Big 12's tv deal sucks. How long before all the north teams find homes elsewhere and we become the Big Texas conference :mad:

[NormanPride]

It's all about tv viewership, gents. The Colorado market is a pretty good one, and losing it would hurt. We'd need to pick up a good market like BYU's LDS followers.

We already have Houston (A&M, Texas), Dallas (OU, Texas) and Tulsa (OU, OSU). I thought Memphis would be an okay choice but they're pretty far away and small...

[John Kochtoston]

I'd gag at BYU. Makes more sense to get TCU, or Houston, or even Tulsa. Hell, take Tulane and make inroads into Ess EEEEE Ceee land.

The Big 12 needs another small, private school like it needs the return of Howard Schnellenberger. No help in the TV market, those schools can't access state funds in times of need, and their donors are much less likely to donate to the sports programs.

Houston looks good on paper, but 1) the Big 12 already has the Houston market and 2) Houston will never be more than the third fiddle in Texas (if that).

BYU would be a great pickup. Adds a new TV market and the 21st Century Notre Dame.

[goingoneight]

No way pick up TCU and send OSU packing.


Agreed.

[badger]

There is no way that I'd want more Texas schools than we already have, or worse yet, take a non-Texas school and replace it with yet another Texas school. The North division is already feeling shunned and out-reffed in football.

If we want a Texas school in the Big 12 that isn't already in the Big 12, replace a Texas school that is in the Big 12, like Baylor or Tech.

[pweitkem]

I could see why Colorado would go to the Pac-10. Sucks being the 8th best team in a 12 team league.

[Dio]

I could see why Colorado would go to the Pac-10. Sucks being the 8th best team in a 12 team league.

So they could go be the 8th best team in a different league?

[soonervegas]

Everyone is right about the TV thing. Now way we pick up another Texas school. Someone said something the other day that at least made me pause:

Louisville

I still think we look to a BYU 1st, but Louisville does have some of the things that would be attractive. Especially if Pitt goes to the Big 10 and the Big East implodes.

[ouduckhunter]

Utah to the Pac-10?
11:20

I think that BYU would be a better choice, but maybe they don't want sc to play very many hard teams!

Exactly!

They don't want USUC or the other quasi Pac10 darling, Orygune, to have any tough competition. Out here, most of the sports press, the teams, etc., aided and abetted by Colin Cowgirl, are all convinced that the Pac10 doesn't get the spek that they deserve in the national media, polling, etc. They sure aren't going to bring in other teams that are capable of upsetting the teams that ESpin, etc. worship and adore. That might blow their cover!

[fwsooner22]

There is no way that I'd want more Texas schools than we already have, or worse yet, take a non-Texas school and replace it with yet another Texas school. The North division is already feeling shunned and out-reffed in football.

If we want a Texas school in the Big 12 that isn't already in the Big 12, replace a Texas school that is in the Big 12, like Baylor or Tech.


Those schools are not discussing leaving nor will they ever leave the Big 12. EVER. If you live in Texas you know how pi$$ed all the schools are that the SW conference ever went away. Forget that ain't happenin'.

[ndpruitt03]

I think we should just pick up either Colorado State or Air Force to keep it closer to the same. Arkansas would be the best choice but that's not happening.

[TexasLidig8r]

sigh.....

Not.... gonna.... happen.... with Utah to the Pac 10.

1. The vote from the Pac 10 has to be unanimous.

2. Utah doesn't have the academic schwing the Pac 10 schools require.

3. Utah is too "conservative" politically to be a good fit in the Pac 10. The bastions of liberalism, Berzerkely, Oregon, will put the Kings X on it.

4. Utah doesn't bring enough to the table with regard to television sets or national appeal.

[KantoSooner]

The Big 12 needs another small, private school like it needs the return of Howard that old drunk. No help in the TV market, those schools can't access state funds in times of need, and their donors are much less likely to donate to the sports programs.

Houston looks good on paper, but 1) the Big 12 already has the Houston market and 2) Houston will never be more than the third fiddle in Texas (if that).

BYU would be a great pickup. Adds a new TV market and the 21st Century Notre Dame.

You're right, of course in terms of the small private schools I mentioned, but BYU? Ugh. I know that we've got the great desert to our west and the SEC blocking off what might be better options (like Arkansas) to our east, but surely we don't have to go for BYU. Louisville was mentioned. I'd be okay with that. We just don't have that many options that are attractive and don't require massive road trips.

[fwsooner22]

The Big 12 needs another small, private school like it needs the return of Howard that old drunk. No help in the TV market, those schools can't access state funds in times of need, and their donors are much less likely to donate to the sports programs.

Houston looks good on paper, but 1) the Big 12 already has the Houston market and 2) Houston will never be more than the third fiddle in Texas (if that).

BYU would be a great pickup. Adds a new TV market and the 21st Century Notre Dame.

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

Not that big a deal if you look at it closely. TCU makes way more sense than anybody else from a competitive standpoint. TCU has more money than anybody in the Big 12 except UT. Do you think Baylor hurts for money ?

Maybe I don't get it but since when do state schools have more money than private schools. I always thought it was the other way around. I know for certain its not a problem at TCU. TCU doesn't even know "times of need".

I see the TV thing but I would rather concentrate on a more competitive conference. Kinda like that SEC thing. Geez did I say that ?

BYU....no thanks. JMO

[soonervegas]

sigh.....

Not.... gonna.... happen.... with Utah to the Pac 10.

1. The vote from the Pac 10 has to be unanimous.

2. Utah doesn't have the academic schwing the Pac 10 schools require.

3. Utah is too "conservative" politically to be a good fit in the Pac 10. The bastions of liberalism, Berzerkely, Oregon, will put the Kings X on it.

4. Utah doesn't bring enough to the table with regard to television sets or national appeal.

But you'll gladly engage in a circle jerk over at hornfans about how Texas is the only choice for the Big 10. Your just too upper crust for the Big 12.

[fwsooner22]

sigh.....

Not.... gonna.... happen.... with Utah to the Pac 10.

1. The vote from the Pac 10 has to be unanimous.

2. Utah doesn't have the academic schwing the Pac 10 schools require.

3. Utah is too "conservative" politically to be a good fit in the Pac 10. The bastions of liberalism, Berzerkely, Oregon, will put the Kings X on it.

4. Utah doesn't bring enough to the table with regard to television sets or national appeal.


Let's see so the 10 conservative schools in the Big 12 should have conspired to keep the two liberal beasts out. That would never have worked but it would have been interesting.

[John Kochtoston]

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

Not that big a deal if you look at it closely. TCU makes way more sense than anybody else from a competitive standpoint. TCU has more money than anybody in the Big 12 except UT. Do you think Baylor hurts for money ?

Maybe I don't get it but since when do state schools have more money than private schools. I always thought it was the other way around. I know for certain its not a problem at TCU. TCU doesn't even know "times of need".

I see the TV thing but I would rather concentrate on a more competitive conference. Kinda like that SEC thing. Geez did I say that ?

BYU....no thanks. JMO

BYU gets the Big 12 1) a new TV market and 2) the eyes of every Mormon in America watching Big 12 football. TCU does neither.

And, yes, most small private schools struggle to keep up financially, at least when it comes to athletics. They generally have smaller alumni bases and get no state funding. There are exceptions, of course, like Notre Dame, USC and BYU. But, BYU and USC aren't small, and Notre Dame is the de facto team for many Catholics and Americans of Irish decent.

When you compare Amon Carter stadium to what most even mediocre state schools fire out, it's not even close.

[UteSooner]

Utah is politically conservative? Don't think so. It's the only liberal place in Utah. It isn't Berkeley, but it is completely different from BYU.

Utah doesn't have the academics of the Pac 10?
According to US news rankings they (we) fit in just fine with the bottom half of the conference.
Rankings:
102- Arizona
106- Washington State
115- Oregon
121- Arizona State
126- Utah
unranked (tier 3)- Oregon State

I hope this turns out to be true (but it probably won't).

[prrriiide]

Salt Lake City is the #33 market.
Cincinnati is the #34 market.
Menfis is the # 48 market
Louisville is the #50 market

I think if the BigXII needs a team, either BYU or Cincy make the most sense from a potential viewership point of view. Another way the Cincy would be attractive is that it would open up the recruit-rich Ohio market to seeing BigXII football. Cincy is competitive on the national scene (for now, we'll see what Kelly's replacement does), and I think they would be the best addition over any of the others mentioned so far.

[badger]

Salt Lake City is the #33 market.
Cincinnati is the #34 market.
Menfis is the # 48 market
Louisville is the #50 market

I think if the BigXII needs a team, either BYU or Cincy make the most sense from a potential viewership point of view. Another way the Cincy would be attractive is that it would open up the recruit-rich Ohio market to seeing BigXII football. Cincy is competitive on the national scene (for now, we'll see what Kelly's replacement does), and I think they would be the best addition over any of the others mentioned so far.

I like the way this guy thinks - no Texas school mentions!

Seriously, whenever I come across this topic on another board, like texags, it's all about "Get SMU for the Dallas market" or "Get Houston for the Houston market" or "get TCU for weird reason." Seriously, if these guys want their SWC conference back, don't drag us down with you! Just join Conference USA with the rest of them and leave us alone!

Considering how we like to recruit nationwide, it might be a good idea to expand the Big 12's borders a little... maybe not all the way up to Cincy, but expand them... and no, that doesn't mean expand them south to UTEP. That is in Texas, see. Expansion OUTSIDE the state of Texas! OUTSIDE, dammit.

[cdlbdd]

Utah is politically conservative? Don't think so. It's the only liberal place in Utah.

I am confused.

[soonerhubs]

I am confused.

I think he meant the UofU (Salt Lake City)being the most liberal area of Utah. Outside of Park City, this is true.

[KantoSooner]

I am confused.

We shall assume the comment was meant to be: BYU instead of the first Utah. And BYU may well be the liberalest place in Utah.

But, see, it's a continuum/reference point type of thingie. Kind of like: Adolf Hitler was a soft boss.....compared to Genghiz Khan. Or, I love Texas A&M...compared to Texas.

Considering that Utah makes Oklahoma look like the entire population of Berkeley marching in a May Day parade, calling on locale or another therein 'liberal' in anything other than a relative sense is to misuse the word.

[soonerhubs]

We shall assume the comment was meant to be: BYU instead of the first Utah. And BYU may well be the liberalest place in Utah.

But, see, it's a continuum/reference point type of thingie. Kind of like: Adolf Hitler was a soft boss.....compared to Genghiz Khan. Or, I love Texas A&M...compared to Texas.

Considering that Utah makes Oklahoma look like the entire population of Berkeley marching in a May Day parade, calling on locale or another therein 'liberal' in anything other than a relative sense is to misuse the word.

Oh... that's not entirely true.

Point 1) BYU is actually the more conservative. He meant UofU. (Salt Lake City)

Point 2) To Say Oklahoma is a liberal state compared to Utah may be a mistake. Consider this:

Regarding Social Issues: The culture of Homophobia here is, at the very least equal to Utah. My qualitative observations, and this is with peers in the field who are supposed to be more "open-minded", is that Oklahoma is more homophobic. (The slurs I've heard come out of some colleagues' mouths offended me greatly.)
Regarding Fiscal Issues: Oklahoma may trump Utah as less conservative, but then again, Utah has many more vehicle regulations than here. So it's difficult to say.

All in all. I'd suggest a tie versus the idea that Utah makes Oklahoma look like Berkeley.

[ndpruitt03]

Oh... that's not entirely true.

Point 1) BYU is actually the more conservative. He meant UofU. (Salt Lake City)

Point 2) To Say Oklahoma is a liberal state compared to Utah may be a mistake. Consider this:

Regarding Social Issues: The culture of Homophobia here is, at the very least equal to Utah. My qualitative observations, and this is with peers in the field who are supposed to be more "open-minded", is that Oklahoma is more homophobic. (The slurs I've heard come out of some colleagues' mouths offended me greatly.)
Regarding Fiscal Issues: Oklahoma may trump Utah as less conservative, but then again, Utah has many more vehicle regulations than here. So it's difficult to say.

All in all. I'd suggest a tie versus the idea that Utah makes Oklahoma look like Berkeley.
There may not be a state more conservative than Oklahoma. Anywhere may be Berkeley compared to Oklahoma.

[KantoSooner]

Oh... that's not entirely true.

Point 1) BYU is actually the more conservative. He meant UofU. (Salt Lake City)

Point 2) To Say Oklahoma is a liberal state compared to Utah may be a mistake. Consider this:

Regarding Social Issues: The culture of Homophobia here is, at the very least equal to Utah. My qualitative observations, and this is with peers in the field who are supposed to be more "open-minded", is that Oklahoma is more homophobic. (The slurs I've heard come out of some colleagues' mouths offended me greatly.)
Regarding Fiscal Issues: Oklahoma may trump Utah as less conservative, but then again, Utah has many more vehicle regulations than here. So it's difficult to say.

All in all. I'd suggest a tie versus the idea that Utah makes Oklahoma look like Berkeley.

I was striving for humor. And failing. Still, When you consider that Oklahoma was admitting black women to law school(albeit grudgingly) at a time when the majority social group in Utah didn't accept blacks as human or women as fit for more than breeding stock.....I'll stick with the judgement that OK is a tad more 'liberal' socially.

[ndpruitt03]

I was striving for humor. And failing. Still, When you consider that Oklahoma was admitting black women to law school(albeit grudgingly) at a time when the majority social group in Utah didn't accept blacks as human or women as fit for more than breeding stock.....I'll stick with the judgement that OK is a tad more 'liberal' socially.

But most southern states have to accept race earlier than the west or the north because there are more minorities in those areas.

[UteSooner]

I am confused.

Sorry guys. I call the U of U Utah.

[Leroy Lizard]

That's okay. We're used to it from Texas fans who consider UT equivalent to Texas.

[soonerhubs]

I was striving for humor. And failing. Still, When you consider that Oklahoma was admitting black women to law school(albeit grudgingly) at a time when the majority social group in Utah didn't accept blacks as human or women as fit for more than breeding stock.....I'll stick with the judgement that OK is a tad more 'liberal' socially.

It always goes back to those attacks. Of course. :rolleyes:

[UteSooner]

Just for the record, I was never saying that the state of Utah as a whole is anything but hard-core conservative. The University of Utah however, is a pretty liberal place. Yes, even compared to universities in other states. I never meant to change this thread into a "who is more liberal, Utah or Oklahoma or any other place." I just wanted to say that the U of U would not be out of place in the Pac 10/12 culturally or academically.

The only thing I don't like about this idea (if the U and CU move) is that they aren't rivals. Every member of the pac 10 has an in-conference rival, so in that respect the UU and CU would be out of place.

[PLaw]

The Big 12 needs another small, private school like it needs the return of Howard that old drunk. No help in the TV market, those schools can't access state funds in times of need, and their donors are much less likely to donate to the sports programs.

Houston looks good on paper, but 1) the Big 12 already has the Houston market and 2) Houston will never be more than the third fiddle in Texas (if that).

BYU would be a great pickup. Adds a new TV market and the 21st Century Notre Dame.

Yeah, but back in the day, Houston crashed texas' little swc party and won 3 or 4 conf championships. And who can forget, Phi Slamma Jamma? With the right AD and coaching, Houston could add some real punch to the Big 12.

Ultimately, the Big 12 needs to grab another major media market darling. To the point above, byu might not be a bad choice should there be a defection.

[GKeeper316]

personally i think we should boot baylor and invite colo st. to the big 12.

or maybe we could trade the sec baylor for arkansas...

neither is likely, but ive never felt that baylor, or any other private school for that matter, belonged in the big 12.

[GKeeper316]

There may not be a state more conservative than Oklahoma. Anywhere may be Berkeley compared to Oklahoma.

^^ what he said

[yankee]

if the big 12 is going to replace u of colorado, they're going to replace it with a school that brings alot to the table athletically, across the board. i keep seeing these colorado state mentionings. they're not very good at football, are they a power in some other sports? what about tcu...outside of football, do they have nationally prominent sports? replacing colorado with a school that sucks even more is never, ever going to happen...

[soonerfan28]

I like Houston although it would allow a lot of the talent from there to stay home and still be able to compete in one of the top conferences in the nation.

[soonerhubs]

Louisville or BYU seem to me to be the most interesting fit, but I'm not saying they're the best fit.

[badger]

There may not be a state more conservative than Oklahoma. Anywhere may be Berkeley compared to Oklahoma.

Well, we were the only state to have each and every county give a big N-O to Obama last presidential election :D

[TMcGee86]

I was listening to Cowherd this morning talk about this and thought if MIssou goes to the big 10 and colo goes to the pac 10, why not have OU and OSU move to the north and let the south pick up TCU and Houston? It would be the closest thing to putting the big 8 and swc back together, and it would allow for an OU/TX B12CG, which would be nice.

Obviously it makes no sense from a tv standpoint as both markets are covered by more popular teams, so it wont happen, and prob if both left it would be BYU and Louisville to the north, but still it would be pretty sweet from a football standpoint.

[ric311]

FYI - the CU to the Pac 10 (12) rumor has been around for years, but this time it seems quite a bit more real than in the past. There seems to be some truth to the rumor this time around. Most CU fans that I talk to are supportive of the move. There are more CU alumni in California than any other state besides Colorado. When CU plays on the West coast, they regularly get 10K+ to the games just from folks who already live there. People move from Colorado to California, but they don't move to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Iowa or Nebraska. West Coast alumni have a TON of pull at CU.

I'd give this a better than 50/50 shot at happening. It would mean the end of the CU/NU game, but that's the only negative to the arrangement as far as most CU fans can see.

[MeMyself&Me]

Well, we were the only state to have each and every county give a big N-O to Obama last presidential election :D

Was the only state to have every county red in the '04 election as well. Texas would have as well if it weren't for the hippies in Austin.

[snrfan65]

I like the way this guy thinks - no Texas school mentions!

Seriously, whenever I come across this topic on another board, like texags, it's all about "Get SMU for the Dallas market" or "Get Houston for the Houston market" or "get TCU for weird reason." Seriously, if these guys want their SWC conference back, don't drag us down with you! Just join Conference USA with the rest of them and leave us alone!

Considering how we like to recruit nationwide, it might be a good idea to expand the Big 12's borders a little... maybe not all the way up to Cincy, but expand them... and no, that doesn't mean expand them south to UTEP. That is in Texas, see. Expansion OUTSIDE the state of Texas! OUTSIDE, dammit.

This. Absolutely.

I for one do NOT want to see yet another Texas team in the Big XII. The state of Texas has enough control over the conference as it is (money, locations, refs, etc).

And I agree with the comment regarding the Southwest Conference. When the Big XII was formed, the Texas teams played in what was basically a Texas-only conference. The money base and TV viewership was there, but guess what? Few outside the state cared, so the exposure for the teams was limited to one state.

Texas needed the expanded exposure from the old Big 8, and the Big 8 teams needed the Texas revenue (and exposure in the state of Texas).

Reality is, UT (being one of the conference powers) loves having the exposure of a larger, 12 team conference, but the convenience of the South division being in Texas, or close to it.

Nothing against TCU or Houston or any other school, but we have enough Texas schools already in the conference.

[bluedogok]

I like the way this guy thinks - no Texas school mentions!

Seriously, whenever I come across this topic on another board, like texags, it's all about "Get SMU for the Dallas market" or "Get Houston for the Houston market" or "get TCU for weird reason." Seriously, if these guys want their SWC conference back, don't drag us down with you! Just join Conference USA with the rest of them and leave us alone!
The Dallas market doesn't care about SMU, never has, even when they were doing well before the death penalty. There are probably more OU alums in Dallas than SMU alums.


Was the only state to have every county red in the '04 election as well. Texas would have as well if it weren't for the hippies in Austin.
The Valley was pretty solidly "blue" as well. I can tell you the counties with the Austin suburbs are SOLIDLY red, and most of the "liberals" here would be classified as moderates in Berkley.

[King Crimson]

what ric311 said is about what i get as a feel on the ground living in Boulder/working at CU.

i'd still put the odds at less than 50% but i think there is some real traction this time around....vs. what is normally just wishful thinking from a vocal minority of CU fans who do the "we should go the Pac and our lives will be great" thing every off-season.

[OK2LA]

personally i think we should boot baylor and invite colo st. to the big 12.



:confused:

You couldn't think of a better school than Colorado State?

That's kind of a lateral move, if anything - not an improvement.

[King Crimson]

CSU has no business being in the Big XII. all of their fans are really Nebraska fans. no one cares about CSU even in Denver.

BU is way better than CSU.

[NMSooner'80]

http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/nm/graphics/louie-150.jpg

We've got a decent alumni base in New Mexico, and it's a fun place to come in the fall.

[bluedogok]

I kinda liked CSU when Lubick was coach and Bradlee Van Pelt was the QB, they were on almost every Thursday night or late Saturday game so I watched them quite a bit...but they are not Big 12 material.