A SUC FAN MAKING SENSE... WTF????

[Tigeman]

They were addressing an ESPN radio host calling Kiffin's move from TN to USC a lateral move. And the TN fans saying at best it was a lateral move but more than likely a downward move (yes the TN fans really believe this.... they also believed Stoops was gonna leave us for them...haha)!

The reason I'm posting this is b/c I wanted to take note of this fans beliefs of OU and TX positions in program greatness. Gotta love it!


It's not a lateral move in the least.

IMO there are 4 super elite programs all time.
USC, Alabama, Oklahoma, Notre Dame.
Some may throw Michigan in there. I don't. But No one in his right mind would argue Tennessee belongs in that group.
Elite programs all time.
I have
Nebraska, Ohio St., Miami, Michigan.
Now some might argue Texas belongs in here. I don't have them there. But again, nobody in his right mind would argue Tennessee belongs in this group either.
The Next group I have consists of Texas.
That's it. They are a notch below the others, but a notch above everyone else. Some might put Penn St. in with Texas or Florida St., but I don't.
The next group would include Tennessee, Florida, Florida St., Penn St., etc. That is where Tennessee is imo. Good programs that win a national title or two, but they aren't the powerhouses of teams above them.
Of course the rub is where does one put programs that were elite in the first half of the 20th century that have faded such as Minnesota and Pittsburgh. It's a very tough call there and I don't really know where to put them definitively. I'd probably throw em in with Texas or maybe with Tennessee's group.
The reality is Tennessee is a couple of notches below USC.

Now I do have to disagree w/ him ranking ND up there, due to their lack of productivity the last decade or two.

I do find the TN over inflated sense of greatness amusing. I do think this is inherent with most SEC SEC SEC teams though.

[VA Sooner]

If you're looking back at all-time records dating back to end of the world war II, then I could see those super-elite four including Notre Dame. Michigan... maybe... but you really have to put aside what's happened in the last few years to not taint your viewpoint.

Tennessee.... agree... third or fourth tier at best.

[BoulderSooner79]

I would agree that ND is in danger if they don't field an elite team soon, but they do have a lot of history. OU had the '60s and (ugh) the 90s, so you really do have to take the long view on these things.

[oudavid1]

I'm a OU fan, but I also love Tennessee, I think OU, texas, USC, Alabama, and Florida are all great places to be but TN is also a great traditional team and has an amazing fan base. OU is still a better job, but I would also kill to coach on Rocky Top

[Tigeman]

David I do agree that TN is a great JOB! There's no arguing that! They definately are not on par with SuC nor are they what I would call a "Destination Job". I personally think there's only 7 of those...

I would say

OU
*
SUC
ND (for some reason alot of coaches find this job really appealing)
Bama
FL (gotta throw this in there now as you have everything to succeed there)
tOSU

While I don't think * and FL would be considered "Super Elite" programs historically.... They are coaching destinations due to the resources, financially and recruiting base. Possibly even higher than us in that regard.

[prrriiide]

David I do agree that TN is a great JOB! There's no arguing that! They definately are not on par with SuC nor are they what I would call a "Destination Job". I personally think there's only 7 of those...

I would say

OU
*
SUC
ND (for some reason alot of coaches find this job really appealing)
Bama
FL (gotta throw this in there now as you have everything to succeed there)
tOSU

While I don't think * and FL would be considered "Super Elite" programs historically.... They are coaching destinations due to the resources, financially and recruiting base. Possibly even higher than us in that regard.

Betchya Dooley doesn't leave unless he stinks it up and is forced out. Tennessee is a destination job...just not for every coach, just like OU is not a destination job for every coach. Not counting Kiffin, Tennessee had 2 coaches in 31 years. Sure, they're UT grads; so what? They brought long-term stability to the program and showed that you can win on Rocky Top.

Also: I would put PSU and FSU on your list of destination jobs.

[KantoSooner]

You can bicker a bit with some of the picks, but the one that really threw me was ND. High Profile? Yes. Super elite? Not for the last two decades. And showing little chance of returning anytime soon. With the built in disadvantages of location (even set against the tradition and religion aspects that make national recruiting possible, living in the snow belt is not attractive).
I think what we are witnessing is a historic shift, the last gasps of a once prominent program. Like Minnesota in the 1940s. No one believes that Harvard will again challenge for national championships. ND will increasingly be seen in the same light.

[Jacie]

If your destination is a program just a hair less hillbilly than Kentucky or West Virginia, then yes, Tennessee is a "destination" job.

[King Barry's Back]

David I do agree that TN is a great JOB! There's no arguing that! They definately are not on par with SuC nor are they what I would call a "Destination Job". I personally think there's only 7 of those...

I would say

OU
*
SUC
ND (for some reason alot of coaches find this job really appealing)
Bama
FL (gotta throw this in there now as you have everything to succeed there)
tOSU

While I don't think * and FL would be considered "Super Elite" programs historically.... They are coaching destinations due to the resources, financially and recruiting base. Possibly even higher than us in that regard.


Not saying you're wrong, Tige, but ten or fifteen years ago wouldn't you have said "Florida State is the ultimate destination program." They were national title contenders year in and year out, they were recruiting to the sun coast of Florida, they had big money donations rolling in and were close to every shoe or equipment deal. And Miamia might have been in there with them.

And you might have shied away from USC at that time, and you might even have turned your nose up at (gasp!) Oklahoma.

I just think these "super elite" lists are too biased by the last decade. I mean, how could they not be?

To me, the closest to a list of super elites that could be put together would include those schools that have consistently owned their own conference --

Ohio State -- Big 10, USC -- Pac-10, OU -- Big 6, 7, 8, 12, and Bama SEC.

Notre Dame would belong up there, despite their lack of conference affiliation, except that I think due to many factors (over the past decade) they are no longer "super elite," and are maybe not even "elite."

All of these conference powers owned their conferences two out of three decades since about 1930.

Tennessee has clearly not reached that plateau.

Texas might have a case during the SWC days, but it seems that A&M and Arkansas normally took their share. ANd TX has only won the Big XII three times.

[Tigeman]

The only reason I put ND up there is b/c ESPN and the rest of the media seem to push this job like it's some big thing. And apparently alot of coaches want it! I do not agree that it's a destination job.... but others do. I also don't really agree w/ them being "Super Elite"... but others do, including some in this thread.

As for *, they may not win it, but there's no reason they shouldn't every year at least compete for the CC and the mNC with all that is at their disposal. Keep in mind that they are the 2nd winningest program in Div. 1 history and prob. not far off from being 1st if Michigan doesn't straighten up. There's a reason for that as well. All but 3 or 4 coaches in the country would drop their current job in a heart beat to go there. Rather we like it or not, they are considered a top coaching program.

The FL, Miami, FL. St. thing.... that whole deal is really hard to figure where they sit honestly. If I were a head coach and given my choice of going to either though, I'd have to go w/ FL.

prrriiide.... Your spinning it. You cannot say TN is a dest. job, just not for every coach. It either is a job that almost every coach but 3 or 4 would jump at, or it isn't. If it were, Muschamp wouldn't have turned them down, nor would their 2nd choice have. You got turned down everywhere you looked. That should tell you something about the program! Your confusing some alumni's dream job vs. a true nationally recognized "Destination job". There is a big difference.

There's a reason the top Def. Coordinator at the time, who could have basically any job he wanted, chose to come to OU while it's program was in shambles. Because it is considered a destination job!

Look at it like this.... Take every coach today and fire them from their jobs. Throw every coach into a pool and randomly draw names. As each coach is drawn, they get to pick the school they want to coach at. You could do this multiple times and consistently you would see the top programs chosen would be....

OU
*
SUC
BAMA
Ohio St.
FL

Of course this is all my opinion, but I truly don't think I'm far off.

[oudavid1]

Betchya Dooley doesn't leave unless he stinks it up and is forced out. Tennessee is a destination job...just not for every coach, just like OU is not a destination job for every coach. Not counting Kiffin, Tennessee had 2 coaches in 31 years. Sure, they're UT grads; so what? They brought long-term stability to the program and showed that you can win on Rocky Top.

Also: I would put PSU and FSU on your list of destination jobs.

Thanks guys, im just pointing out that coaching major college football is a destination, espically for a guy like me who wants to caoch one day!

[meoveryouxinfinity]

It's the history vs RIGHT NOW debate.
I can see someone for Tennessee saying that Tennessee to USC is a lateral move because USC is a program on the decline (sanctions, etc) and Tennessee is a program on the rise. But that's neither here nor there. We can't predict the future. Historically and right now, USC is way above Tennessee.

I agree with this guy for the most part on the levels--at least from a historical standpoint.

USC, Alabama, Oklahoma, Notre Dame.
-------------------------------------
Nebraska, Ohio St., Michigan.
-------------------------------------
Miami, Texas.
-------------------------------------
Tennessee, Florida, Florida St., Penn St., etc.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Not saying you're wrong, Tige, but ten or fifteen years ago wouldn't you have said "Florida State is the ultimate destination program." They were national title contenders year in and year out, they were recruiting to the sun coast of Florida, they had big money donations rolling in and were close to every shoe or equipment deal. And Miamia might have been in there with them.

And you might have shied away from USC at that time, and you might even have turned your nose up at (gasp!) Oklahoma.

I just think these "super elite" lists are too biased by the last decade. I mean, how could they not be?

To me, the closest to a list of super elites that could be put together would include those schools that have consistently owned their own conference --

Ohio State -- Big 10, USC -- Pac-10, OU -- Big 6, 7, 8, 12, and Bama SEC.

Notre Dame would belong up there, despite their lack of conference affiliation, except that I think due to many factors (over the past decade) they are no longer "super elite," and are maybe not even "elite."

All of these conference powers owned their conferences two out of three decades since about 1930.

Tennessee has clearly not reached that plateau.

Texas might have a case during the SWC days, but it seems that A&M and Arkansas normally took their share. ANd TX has only won the Big XII three times.
Wow um Michigan has like 10 more Big 10 championships in football that Ohio State. Talk about being skewed by recent history.

[goingoneight]

Let's see...

over 100,000 fans show up for gameday... winning season or not.

Great facilities.

Great talent pool.

I'd say the "second" and "third-tier" jobs are in places like Lubbock, Stoolwater, etc.

Tennessee might not have been Kiffin's "destination," but it's not like it's some laughing stock. They have all the pieces to be just as good or better than us or anybody else out there.


Just that they wear orange makes people wanna bail ASAP, I suppose. :P

[goingoneight]

dp.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

David I do agree that TN is a great JOB! There's no arguing that! They definately are not on par with SuC nor are they what I would call a "Destination Job". I personally think there's only 7 of those...

I would say

OU
*
SUC
ND (for some reason alot of coaches find this job really appealing)
Bama
FL (gotta throw this in there now as you have everything to succeed there)
tOSU

While I don't think * and FL would be considered "Super Elite" programs historically.... They are coaching destinations due to the resources, financially and recruiting base. Possibly even higher than us in that regard.Right on!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

If your destination is a program just a hair less hillbilly than Kentucky or West Virginia, then yes, Tennessee is a "destination" job.heh

[badger]

Some jobs are destination jobs for certain people. For Fat Phil Fulmer, Tennessee was his destination job, because he's from there. Tennessee is also a destination job for Pat Summit, and Bruce Pearl.

Alas, it was not for Lane Kiffin... but really, other than shooting his mouth and a few almost-wins, what do you miss about him, Rocky Top? His wife? A few good recruits?

[Oldnslo]

Some jobs are destination jobs for certain people. For Fat Phil Fulmer, Tennessee was his destination job, because he's from there. Tennessee is also a destination job for Pat Summit, and Bruce Pearl.

Alas, it was not for Lane Kiffin... but really, other than shooting his mouth and a few almost-wins, what do you miss about him, Rocky Top? His wife? A few good recruits?

Yeah, but for Gundy, Ostate is a "destination".

I'd put Meatchicken in with the 2nd tier, on a par with tOSU.

[badger]

Yeah, but for Gundy, Ostate is a "destination".

That was my point - one man's trash is another man's treasure. For Mike Gundy, who by no stretch of the imagination should be a head coach at a Div. 1 program at his point in his career, Oklahoma State is a destination.

With that in mind, the Pokes should not cry if Mike Gundy leaves for a program like USC. He'll be way in over his head (even more than he already is, trying to be head coach and call offensive plays) and like Kiffiekins, won't succeed to the level that the fans demand... and whoever OSU ends up with after Gundy? Can't be much worse, amirite?

(but wouldn't it be funny if Gundy left? would the op be in meltdown mode, or shutdown mode?)

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

That was my point - one man's trash is another man's treasure. For Mike Gundy, who by no stretch of the imagination should be a head coach at a Div. 1 program at his point in his career, Oklahoma State is a destination.

With that in mind, the Pokes should not cry if Mike Gundy leaves for a program like USC. He'll be way in over his head (even more than he already is, trying to be head coach and call offensive plays) and like Kiffiekins, won't succeed to the level that the fans demand... and whoever OSU ends up with after Gundy? Can't be much worse, amirite?

(but wouldn't it be funny if Gundy left? would the op be in meltdown mode, or shutdown mode?)We LIKE Mike Gundy...MIKE GUNDY IS FINE RIGHT WHERE HE IS, THANKYEW!

[badger]

We LIKE Mike Gundy...MIKE GUNDY IS FINE RIGHT WHERE HE IS, THANKYEW!

Oh yeah! It was that other guy that beat us. KEEP mike gundy... and A&M should KEEP sherman... and baylor can do whatever they have for the past 30 years :D

[OUinFLA]

Also: I would put PSU and FSU on your list of destination jobs.

Not sure you can put PSU down as a "destination job" as most living people don't remember when the job was ever open.

:D

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Not sure you can put PSU down as a "destination job" as most living people don't remember when the job was ever open.

:DFSU is pretty much the same type situmation. Bobby was there an AWFULLY long time.

[SoonerAtKU]

Nebraska is nowhere near as good a job as Texas. Not even in the same league anymore. They'd have to be at least a tier or two below, and even though I'd rather see Texas lose every game they ever play from here on out, I have to admit that.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Oh yeah! It was that other guy that beat us. KEEP mike gundy... and A&M should KEEP sherman... and baylor can do whatever they have for the past 30 years :DNebbish, BRING BACK BILL! BRING BACK BILL, BRING BACK BILL, etc. blah blah.