Heard Ditka on the radio this AM

[rawlingsHOH]

Said, Peterson will have to correct fumbling problem if he wants to be mentioned with the "Walter Payton's".

Immediately piqued my interest.

[rawlingsHOH]

Top 14 rushers in NFL history and the fumble count thru 3 seasons...

1. Emmitt Smith, 19
2. Walter Payton, 30
3. Barry Sanders, 19
4. Curtis Martin, 12
5. Jerome Bettis, 13
6. Eric Dickerson, 37
7. Tony Dorsett, 28
8. Ladanian Tomlinson, 13
9. Jim Brown, 14
10. Marshall Faulk, 15
11. Edgerrin James, 16
12. Marcus Allen, 27
13. Franco Harris, 28
14. Thurman Thomas, 22

So Peterson, at 20, is roughly the same as ball control specialists Smith and Sanders.

[Crucifax Autumn]

So basically Ditka was running his mouth without checking his facts?

[Jello Biafra]

So basically Ditka was running his mouth without checking his facts?

not really all that uncommon with him. i love the man but he loves the "good ole days"


for the record, the first three years of walter's career, he was on some very bad bears teams. he tried WAAAAAY too hard to make plays happen...similar to one rb wearing viking purple...

[fwsooner22]

Payton fumbled a total of 59 times after that 30 in the first 3 years. He made the adjustment. Ditka has a point.

[rawlingsHOH]

Payton fumbled a total of 59 times after that 30 in the first 3 years. He made the adjustment. Ditka has a point.

But I'm just constantly amazed that no one EVER mentions most of the great ones had similar issues.

I watched every Vikings game this year, and when the subject has come up, not once did a color guy give any historical/statistical insight.

[Jello Biafra]

Payton fumbled a total of 59 times after that 30 in the first 3 years. He made the adjustment. Ditka has a point.

no...the adjustment he made was he got better lineman around him and he BECAME a patient runner. peterson has shown that he is a patient runner when there is no pressure but when the game is still in doubt, hes all about pounding the ball as fast and as hard as he can go. he stretches for yardage when he should be covering up, he tries to spin out of hits, gets the ball away from his body and it gets punched out. until he fixes it, he is going to be a target no matter what because thats the only way teams can stop him.

i still remember a game back in 79 (i think)against the fudge packers in which walter is running out to the flat, a lb chasing him. instead of payton running out of bounds like the lb thought was going to happen, walter cuts back, picks up speed and delivers a rib crushing stiff arm that knocks said lb off his feet THEN he runs out of bounds. payton slowing down and angling for the sidelines is what sold it. if he would have been running full tilt, the LB would have tried to bury him... if peterson gets this type of mentality, he will be a bigger beast than he already is. payton was a workout warrior but peterson far exceeds what walter was able to accomplish.

a cool, calculated big back like peterson will be the bane of defenses in the NFL for quite a few years.

[stoopified]

Top 14 rushers in NFL history and the fumble count thru 3 seasons...

1. Emmitt Smith, 19
2. Walter Payton, 30
3. Barry Sanders, 19
4. Curtis Martin, 12
5. Jerome Bettis, 13
6. Eric Dickerson, 37
7. Tony Dorsett, 28
8. Ladanian Tomlinson, 13
9. Jim Brown, 14
10. Marshall Faulk, 15
11. Edgerrin James, 16
12. Marcus Allen, 27
13. Franco Harris, 28
14. Thurman Thomas, 22

So Peterson, at 20, is roughly the same as ball control specialists Smith and Sanders.Somebody needs to show this stat to Troy Aikman, Skip Bayless and all other EXPERTS who bag on AD for fumbles.

[Partial Qualifier]

The Vikes were a well-oiled turnover machine yesterday.

I still don't get how A.D. recovered his 2nd fumble.. even after watching it a few times. That was freakish.

[fwsooner22]

no...the adjustment he made was he got better lineman around him and he BECAME a patient runner. peterson has shown that he is a patient runner when there is no pressure but when the game is still in doubt, hes all about pounding the ball as fast and as hard as he can go. he stretches for yardage when he should be covering up, he tries to spin out of hits, gets the ball away from his body and it gets punched out. until he fixes it, he is going to be a target no matter what because thats the only way teams can stop him.

i still remember a game back in 79 (i think)against the fudge packers in which walter is running out to the flat, a lb chasing him. instead of payton running out of bounds like the lb thought was going to happen, walter cuts back, picks up speed and delivers a rib crushing stiff arm that knocks said lb off his feet THEN he runs out of bounds. payton slowing down and angling for the sidelines is what sold it. if he would have been running full tilt, the LB would have tried to bury him... if peterson gets this type of mentality, he will be a bigger beast than he already is. payton was a workout warrior but peterson far exceeds what walter was able to accomplish.

a cool, calculated big back like peterson will be the bane of defenses in the NFL for quite a few years.



So now Payton played for Bears teams that had good offensive linemen? I dont claim to remember all those Bears teams but they stunk for most of his career.

Payton was all out all the time. Also, but for two seasons had the worst offensive linemen in football.

He never had a QB like Favre.

So who has better linemen. Paytons Bears or todays Vikings ?

Careful with that word "No".......its an opinion board.

[Sooner04]

The Vikes were a well-oiled turnover machine yesterday.

I still don't get how A.D. recovered his 2nd fumble.. even after watching it a few times. That was freakish.
Honest to goodness, that was one of the most phenomenal plays I've ever seen.

And how many fumbles does Chris Johnson have through two years? I'll take the answer off the air. [click] :)

[Jello Biafra]

So now Payton played for Bears teams that had good offensive linemen.

Payton was all out all the time. Also, but for two seasons had the worst offensive linemen in football.

He never had a QB like Favre.

did (I) say GOOD olineman? no i said better than what he had his first 3 seasons.

there is a difference in being patient and being all out-all the time.

payton had an all-world oline and qb for one season. yes even better than what peterson had this season.

[fwsooner22]

did (I) say GOOD olineman? no i said better than what he had his first 3 seasons.

there is a difference in being patient and being all out-all the time.

payton had an all-world oline and qb for one season. yes even better than what peterson had this season.


Favre < Jim McMahon ?

2010 Vikings have two, pro bowl offensive linemen.
1984 Bears had zero pro bowl offensive linemen.

[TXBOOMER]

Ditka was trying to say AD needs to fumble 33% more often to be mentioned as bad of a fumbler as Payton.

[Partial Qualifier]

Honest to goodness, that was one of the most phenomenal plays I've ever seen.

And how many fumbles does Chris Johnson have through two years? I'll take the answer off the air. [click] :)

I thought about you as I watched the Vikings kick the Saints' asses, but ultimately 'turnover' the game away. I was rooting for the Vikes and it was hard to watch from a 3rd-person point of view. I bet you were about to come unglued.

[Jello Biafra]

Favre < Jim McMahon ?

2010 Vikings have two, pro bowl offensive linemen.
1984 Bears had zero pro bowl offensive linemen.

yes. for that one year...mcmahon was better than favre.

pro bowl o lineman? and? for that one year, the bears oline was a DOMINANT force. the vikings? they didnt look like they established much of a running game to me.

[rawlingsHOH]

Favre < Jim McMahon ?

2010 Vikings have two, pro bowl offensive linemen.
1984 Bears had zero pro bowl offensive linemen.

They have one good offensive lineman, Hutchinson.

They have a rookie center, who who regularly was blown up by 3-4 teams, and a rookie RT.

Pro Bowl selections are a joke, hence the Bryant McKinnie selection, he's godawful about half the time.

[rawlingsHOH]

pro bowl o lineman? and? for that one year, the bears oline was a DOMINANT force. the vikings? they didnt look like they established much of a running game to me.
Vikings line is built for pass protection with their monster tackles. Their running game works because of the guy carrying it. Not because of any holes.

Though it looked better yesterday. Probably thanks to New Orleans playing 7 in the box.

[Jello Biafra]

Vikings line is built for pass protection with their monster tackles. Their running game works because of the guy carrying it. Not because of any holes.

Though it looked better yesterday. Probably thanks to New Orleans playing 7 in the box.

lol well, if its built for pass protection.....well let me just put it this way...the only one i saw CONSISTANTLY running his guy around the pocket was loadholt.

[Sooner04]

Favre < Jim McMahon ?

2010 Vikings have two, pro bowl offensive linemen.
1984 Bears had zero pro bowl offensive linemen.
What about the 1985 Bears?


I thought about you as I watched the Vikings kick the Saints' asses, but ultimately 'turnover' the game away. I was rooting for the Vikes and it was hard to watch from a 3rd-person point of view. I bet you were about to come unglued.
I'd read that book before. I knew how it ended. Like I said, I thought we were doomed about four times and thought for sure we had it won once. That last ten minute stretch probably took about two years off the end of my life. But it was all internal because I vowed to my wife when we got married a few years ago that I'd become a more mature sports observer.

In my younger days there's no way the remote would've lived to tell the tale of last night.

[Leroy Lizard]

I think AD has lead the league in fumbles since he arrived, so it is a problem that he needs to correct.

[Jello Biafra]

What about the 1985 Bears?





i knew what he meant ;) just letting him think he knows what hes talking about.

[rawlingsHOH]

I think AD has lead the league in fumbles since he arrived, so it is a problem that he needs to correct.

I'd say Steve Slaton lead the league this year. Both guys had 7, Slaton had half as many carries.

[Jello Biafra]

not really all that uncommon with him. i love the man but he loves the "good ole days"


for the record, the first three years of walter's career, he was on some very bad bears teams. he tried WAAAAAY too hard to make plays happen...similar to one rb wearing viking purple...

also, i remember an interview that ditka did in the late 80s where he was talking about evaluation of talent and he said something to the effect of he would liek to think he could evaluate talent. of course there was that time in 66 where i didnt think there was a rookie LB that was THAT slow would ever do anything in the nfl. he said he spent about 3 hours that next week not remembering who he was after getting hit by butkus.

[Jello Biafra]

I think AD has lead the league in fumbles since he arrived, so it is a problem that he needs to correct.

its a problem that 31 teams would DEAL with.

his upside far outweighs the downside.

[TUSooner]

I think AD has lead the league in fumbles since he arrived, so it is a problem that he needs to correct.

But - but - but AD is a SOONER so whenever he fumbles, Ditka and all other critics need to STFU. :rolleyes: ;)

I like when Greenberg said Ditka coached in New Orleans in the 90s and Ditka said, "That's the rumor." At least he's not pretending he earned his paycheck back then.

[Leroy Lizard]

Not if his production keeps diminishing. As I mentioned earlier this season, teams are slowing him down.

[Jello Biafra]

Not if his production keeps diminishing. As I mentioned earlier this season, teams are slowing him down.

you know whats helping? lack of run blockers...

[Sooner04]

But - but - but AD is a SOONER so whenever he fumbles, Ditka and all other critics need to STFU. :rolleyes: ;)
:D

This place is crawling with Peterson Apologists!

Also, I don't think the Titans would just "DEAL" with Peterson's crippling case of fumblitis. They've got a guy who rushed 44 more times for 623 more yards while fumbling four times less than Saint Peterson. :)

[Leroy Lizard]

Every struggling RB in the league makes the same claim. True or not, a 60-yard, 1 TD game (which is starting to appear more and more often) is not much upside if you fumble it away twice.

[TUSooner]

Just for the record: I LOVE AD, and I can't argue with Mrs.TU when she says she'd rather the Saints had him than Reggie.

[TUSooner]

What about the 1985 Bears?


I'd read that book before. I knew how it ends. Like I said, I thought we were doomed about four times and thought for sure we had it won once. That last ten minute stretch probably took about two years off the end of my life. But it was all internal because I vowed to my wife when we got married a few years ago that I'd become a more mature sports observer.

In my younger days there's no way the remote would've lived to tell the tale of last night.

When the Vikings had the ball at the end of regulation, I knew the Saints had lost. I was thinking, we can't stop them, and we can't possibly get another turnover. Then came the 12-man penatly and I thought, "well.... maybe Favre will try to get those yards back with a pass....."

[Leroy Lizard]

The penalty hurt the Vikings more than any single event, IMO. (Well, other than Hartley's FG.)

[badger]

Ditka might be a little bitter that the Saints are going to the Super Bowl without him.

I still remember back when I was in high school getting that oddball cover with that whorn Ricky Williams on the cover in a bridal dress and Ditka in a Saints tux (oh, if only sf.com had a fark board back then). After Ditka traded away his entire draft for Ricky, he told people that the Saints were going to the Super Bowl... and he stuck with that even after the pep rallies were over. He said that the team had everything in place and the talent to go to the Super Bowl.

And then... the season started :D

As for All Day, it would be one thing if he was giggling and counting his money on the sideline after a fumble, but clearly, it just crushes him. So, methinks he will work on that and not stop till it's corrected.

[stoopified]

He never had a QB like Favre.

Payton played with QBs that were as good as AD has played with in his career.I guarantee you Gus and Tavaris are no better than the stiffs that QB'd the Bears during MOST of Payton's career.I would also guess that You forget just how good McMahon was when healthy,at least on par with Favre.

[fwsooner22]

McMahon Passer Rating in 1985 = 82.6

Favre Passer Rating in 2009 = 107.2

[JLEW1818]

I think AD has lead the league in fumbles since he arrived, so it is a problem that he needs to correct.

Absolutely.

we talked about this situation last night. The fact is, he does need to minimizie his fumbles. Yes the other greats had problems too.

I personally think he will get better at holding onto the ball. These are things that you work on in the offseason, not the middle of the season.

[rawlingsHOH]

Every struggling RB in the league makes the same claim. True or not, a 60-yard, 1 TD game (which is starting to appear more and more often) is not much upside if you fumble it away twice.
I agree if he was averaging 32 fumbles a season and 60 yards a game he'd be bad

LOL !!!!

*But I looked up the numbers, he's averaging 6 fumbles a season and a 100 yards per game.

[rawlingsHOH]

Not if his production keeps diminishing. As I mentioned earlier this season, teams are slowing him down.


yeah, to the tune of their QB scorching them for 33 TDs and 7 INTs. no QB is the history of the league had more TDs, while throwing less INTs.

WHY?

8 in the box, single coverage outside.

Yesterday, the Saints played an honest front and Peterson responded with 130 yards. It's not a coincidence.

[rawlingsHOH]

When the Vikings had the ball at the end of regulation, I knew the Saints had lost. I was thinking, we can't stop them, and we can't possibly get another turnover. Then came the 12-man penatly and I thought, "well.... maybe Favre will try to get those yards back with a pass....."
They were out of range. He had to make a play. I guess he should have scrambled, maybe could have got 5 back. Bad throw.

[NormanPride]

7 fumbles in 18 games is not terrible.

[goingoneight]

It ain't good, but it's not bad, either. He tends to let the ball down for as high and upright as he runs. Easy for good linebackers to get a paw or two on the rock.

[JLEW1818]

good thing postseason fumbles don't count on his stats

[stoops the eternal pimp]

jlew loves dicka

[JLEW1818]

at least i don't like clapp

[stoops the eternal pimp]

15000 posts

[JLEW1818]

watch out yermom

[Leroy Lizard]

I agree if he was averaging 32 fumbles a season and 60 yards a game he'd be bad

LOL !!!!

Yeah, I know. I am talking about the future. If his production drops to the point where a 60-yard, 1-TD becomes the norm... never mind.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yesterday, the Saints played an honest front and Peterson responded with 130 yards. It's not a coincidence.

Actually, 122 yards. And while that is a solid day for any RB, we would have scoffed at it for his first season.

Your argument doesn't make any sense, btw. In AD's first season, the Vikes didn't even have a QB threat. Now, they have one of the best in the league, which should have opened up the running game if anything.

[Sooner04]

7 fumbles in 18 games is not terrible.
Keep in mind those are just fumbles lost. He puts it on the turf quite a bit. Sometimes he makes extraordinary plays just to get it back, like he did last night.

[swardboy]

Your argument doesn't make any sense, btw. In AD's first season, the Vikes didn't even have a QB threat. Now, they have one of the best in the league, which should have opened up the running game if anything.

I'm guessin' AD gets more touches with a lesser QB back there...

[rawlingsHOH]

Actually, 122 yards. And while that is a solid day for any RB, we would have scoffed at it for his first season.

Your argument doesn't make any sense, btw. In AD's first season, the Vikes didn't even have a QB threat. Now, they have one of the best in the league, which should have opened up the running game if anything.

Follow along...

After Peterson ran for 296 yards against SD, in week 9, as a rookie. He became the biggest threat in the NFL, and every defense from there on out focused on stopping him. ESPN was a Peterson highlight film for about 72 hours straight following that.

In his 6 remaing games that season, he averaged 50 yards per game, and 3 yards per carry. Are you still scoffing?

Some of that had to due with a knee sprain, but much had to due with opposition game plan. He became Public Enemy #1.

Also, the Vikings lost an all-pro center last year, and replaced him with an overwhelmed rookie. That was significant.

[rawlingsHOH]

Keep in mind those are just fumbles lost. He puts it on the turf quite a bit. Sometimes he makes extraordinary plays just to get it back, like he did last night.

No, total fumbles.

20 career fumbles, lost 13.

[badger]

Your argument doesn't make any sense, btw. In AD's first season, the Vikes didn't even have a QB threat. Now, they have one of the best in the league, which should have opened up the running game if anything.

Thoughts on Minny having one of the best QBs in the league aside, I'll tell you what really doesn't make sense... how you can go from complete red to complete green from day to day. It's really quite amazing. It's probably a board inside joke as to how that happens. It also perfectly describes my team allegiance... green (Packers) one day, red (Sooners) the next. Since the Packers are outta the playoffs and all though, it was uber sweet for Garrett to hit that field goal :D

[Leroy Lizard]

After Peterson ran for 296 yards against SD, in week 9, as a rookie. He became the biggest threat in the NFL, and every defense from there on out focused on stopping him. ESPN was a Peterson highlight film for about 72 hours straight following that.

In his 6 remaing games that season, he averaged 50 yards per game, and 3 yards per carry. Are you still scoffing?

Never scoffed. But you proved my point: defenses learned how to slow him down.

I realize AD is a former Sooner, and we all have a little homerism in us. But if it had been Cedric Benson playing last night, we would be tearing him limb from limb.

"Flash in the pan!"

"Mr. Fumblerooskie Without the Rooskie!"

AD either has to get his production up or cut down on the fumbles. That's all.

[Leroy Lizard]

how you can go from complete red to complete green from day to day.

I don't know. I have never really paid attention to it.

[rawlingsHOH]

Never scoffed. But you proved my point: defenses learned how to slow him down.

I guess they learned how to get lit up thru the air as well.

Granted T.Jackson and Gus Frerrote couldn't take advantage of it, but an average QB would.



AD either has to get his production up or cut down on the fumbles. That's all
Laughable.

If he continues his current production in all categories, including fumbles, for the next 7 years, he will be a Hall of Fame LOCK.

That is all!

[yermom]

Top 14 rushers in NFL history and the fumble count thru 3 seasons...

1. Emmitt Smith, 19
2. Walter Payton, 30
3. Barry Sanders, 19
4. Curtis Martin, 12
5. Jerome Bettis, 13
6. Eric Dickerson, 37
7. Tony Dorsett, 28
8. Ladanian Tomlinson, 13
9. Jim Brown, 14
10. Marshall Faulk, 15
11. Edgerrin James, 16
12. Marcus Allen, 27
13. Franco Harris, 28
14. Thurman Thomas, 22

So Peterson, at 20, is roughly the same as ball control specialists Smith and Sanders.

Dickerson is who they always compared his running style to... i think he's gonna be fine

[Jello Biafra]

Dickerson is who they always compared his running style to... i think he's gonna be fine

of course he will...

most of these fagtastic posters wouldn't know how to gameplan a soup sammich and many of them act like they are the ghost of lombardi or some shiite...

football is easy guys.
"lesse... we have a big bruising back in his prime and a 96 year old QB that trips over his laces and has to turn down his hearing aid because of the noise in a fuggin dome...and o btw, he has a history of shiiiting himself and throwing stupid picks in pressure packed situations."

"ok. we'll pack 8 in the box and stop the run first, let the wheelchair olympian get frustrated and then, the game is in the bag. o also, out of those 8 in the box, we'll throw in a few blitzes and hope the lineman miss a few of them..."

"what do we do when he rolls out?"

"you kidding me? you seen the guy run? besides, he doesnt like to use his feet. he likes for everyone to see how great of a "gunslinger" he is."



between peterson and favre, the vikings had over 430 yards of offense. you can't blame them for that. the saints scored 14 points off of 7 plays and 44 yards...

[JLEW1818]

he will need more than only 3 100yard rushing games in the regular season to be considered "the best". 2 of those 3 teams were Cleveland and Detroit

[Collier11]

If Favre runs he gets atleast 5-10 yards, of course that is tough for him to do, he also had Berrien wide open down the sideline right in front of him...thats the way it goes sometimes

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Favre had done a great job about not trying to make those kind of throws this season..now his other 30 seasons..not so much

[Jello Biafra]

he will need more than only 3 100yard rushing games in the regular season to be considered "the best". 2 of those 3 teams were Cleveland and Detroit

well, they had better do something about that line then... because as long as peterson is making a habit of running over 240 pound LBers....he will be the main target of shutting down the vikings.

[JLEW1818]

Loadholt run blocking?

[rawlingsHOH]

Loadholt run blocking?

He's okay and great for a rookie, but doesn't really fit the scheme (McKinnie too). If you notice they block much better on the draws than on the zone plays.

[JLEW1818]

so maybe the Vikings should trade up for that qb who played for the Sooners

[Jello Biafra]

so maybe the Vikings should trade up for that qb who played for the Sooners

no. im already dangerously close to liking those purple clad fagtards already.

[CrimsonCommando]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry1tNGC6npg

Hey, go tell Ditka I said to get me a freaking juicebox.

[Leroy Lizard]

well, they had better do something about that line then...

You have more excuses then I have critics.

[fwsooner22]

of course he will...

most of these fagtastic posters wouldn't know how to gameplan a soup sammich and many of them act like they are the ghost of lombardi or some shiite...

football is easy guys.
"lesse... we have a big bruising back in his prime and a 96 year old QB that trips over his laces and has to turn down his hearing aid because of the noise in a fuggin dome...and o btw, he has a history of shiiiting himself and throwing stupid picks in pressure packed situations."

"ok. we'll pack 8 in the box and stop the run first, let the wheelchair olympian get frustrated and then, the game is in the bag. o also, out of those 8 in the box, we'll throw in a few blitzes and hope the lineman miss a few of them..."

"what do we do when he rolls out?"

"you kidding me? you seen the guy run? besides, he doesnt like to use his feet. he likes for everyone to see how great of a "gunslinger" he is."



between peterson and favre, the vikings had over 430 yards of offense. you can't blame them for that. the saints scored 14 points off of 7 plays and 44 yards...



Sometimes no comment is needed.

[soonerborn30]

Isn't saying Peterson needs to quit fumbling like saying your QB needs to stop throwing picks?

[Sooner04]

I think Peterson had more fumbles this year than Favre had picks.

[Jello Biafra]

You have more excuses then I have critics.

doubtful. hey heres some thing to try. go grab a jock. put it on and then tell someone you actually played a down of football. maybe THEN someone will listen to your dumbass

[Jello Biafra]

Sometimes no comment is needed.

and yet, you managed to point it out. grats.

[Leroy Lizard]

put it on and then tell someone you actually played a down of football. maybe THEN someone will listen to your dumbass

Unlike you, I'll play with a helmet.

[Leroy Lizard]

I think Peterson had more fumbles this year than Favre had picks.

And a pic 30 yards downfield is better than a fumble on the line of scrimmage.

[Jello Biafra]

Unlike you, I'll play with a helmet.

yep. i bet you play with ALL the time.

[Jello Biafra]

And a pic 30 yards downfield is better than a fumble on the line of scrimmage.

jesus....you have been given every opportunity to shut yer hole in this thread and you just refuse to do it...

[rawlingsHOH]

And a pic 30 yards downfield is better than a fumble on the line of scrimmage.
How about a pick 6?

I'd think you need specific examples to proclaim one "better" than the other.

[rawlingsHOH]

More fumble statistics...

In 1984, Gerald Riggs fumbled 11 times in 353 carries. The following season, 1985, 397 carries and 0 fumbles. Amazing!

[Leroy Lizard]

jesus....you have been given every opportunity to shut yer hole in this thread and you just refuse to do it...

You don't seem to have any problems running your mouth off.

[Jello Biafra]

You don't seem to have any problems running your mouth off.

certainly dont. i can say that ive pissed off far fewer people in all the years that ive been here than you have in just the last couple of days.

people like me. most people think you clean your teeth with coon dicke toothpicks. just sayin.

[Leroy Lizard]

certainly dont. i can say that ive pissed off far fewer people in all the years that ive been here than you have in just the last couple of days.

So posting on SF is a popularity contest. Why didn't you say so sooner?

[Sooner04]

jesus....you have been given every opportunity to shut yer hole in this thread and you just refuse to do it...
Actually, he made a good point that time.

[Jello Biafra]

Actually, he made a good point that time.

a good point about turnovers? ok. fine. he can read "****** for dummies books"

there are no real good turnovers. a turnover is a missed opportunity to score and a possible opportunity to allow your opponent to score. it doesn't matter if it was a pick 30 yards downfield or a fumble at the line of scrimmage.

[yermom]

so fumbling at your own 1yd line is better than getting picked off when you heave it downfield from the same 1yd line giving them the ball at the 30?

[Leroy Lizard]

so fumbling at your own 1yd line is better than getting picked off when you heave it downfield from the same 1yd line giving them the ball at the 30?

Jello's response falls under the category: "I have to disagree with Lizard so vehemently that I am willing to say the damnedest, stupidest thing."

[Jello Biafra]

so fumbling at your own 1yd line is better than getting picked off when you heave it downfield from the same 1yd line giving them the ball at the 30?

lol whatever guys...what difference does it really make? i mean at very least, you lost an opportunity to score and gave them an opportunity to get at least a fg out of it. most scores come around right after a big momentum shift like that.

read it how you guys want to interpret it. a turnover is bad no matter how you slice it.

[Sooner04]

read it how you guys want to interpret it. a turnover is bad no matter how you slice it.
I'm with yermom. You take a deep shot down the field, it gets picked off, and it's really no different than a punt.

A fumble at first contact by the RB? Oi.

[Jello Biafra]

Jello's response falls under the category: "I have to disagree with Lizard so vehemently that I am willing to say the damnedest, stupidest thing."

right. and YOU have brought nothing to the board in so long we are starting to wonder if you aren't lid's alter ego.

admit you are a pencil dicked, non lettering, nobody and i swear i will ignore you from now until al gore shuts down the internet.

[Jello Biafra]

I'm with yermom. You take a deep shot down the field, it gets picked off, and it's really no different than a punt.

A fumble at first contact by the RB? Oi.

how many DEEP picks are returned for big yardage as opposed to a planned, practice punt?

you don't have to look much farther than our own sooner D for the answer. we've returned so many for more than 15 it would be hard to count.

on a punt, there are skilled gunners going for the rec...on a pick there are some WRs with their back to the ball when its picked and a buncha fat men chasing a quicker more agile ball carrier...


but, whatever...

[Leroy Lizard]

admit you are a pencil dicked, non lettering, nobody and i swear i will ignore you from now until al gore shuts down the internet.

How can I put this gently... I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S *** WHETHER YOU IGNORE ME OR NOT.


how many DEEP picks are returned for big yardage as opposed to a planned, practice punt?

Jello pulls a logical fumblerooskie, as if none of us can spot it.

[OU_Sooners75]

Favre < Jim McMahon ?

2010 Vikings have two, pro bowl offensive linemen.
1984 Bears had zero pro bowl offensive linemen.


So now the Bears were all-world in 1984?

Maybe I am incorrect...but the 1985 Bears was a lot better than the 1984 Bears!

[OU_Sooners75]

Favre < Jim McMahon ?

2010 Vikings have two, pro bowl offensive linemen.
1984 Bears had zero pro bowl offensive linemen.


Also, let me add....

1985 the Bears went 15-1 and cruised through the Playoffs and the Super Bowl!

In 1985, the Bears had 2 Pro-bowl Olinemen (Jimbo Covert and Jay Hilgenberg).

2009-2010 Minnesota Vikings have ONE Pro-Bowl Olineman (Steve Hutchinson). Not really sure where you are getting two!

Pretty much blows your opinion out of the water doesn't it?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1985/probowl.htm

[OU_Sooners75]

McMahon Passer Rating in 1985 = 82.6

Favre Passer Rating in 2009 = 107.2


LMFAO

And 2009 statistically speaking is Favre's best season of his career.

Favre is mister turnover in his career!

Favre for his career is #1 in INTs....317 INTs
McMahon threw just 90 in his career.

[OU_Sooners75]

I think Peterson had more fumbles this year than Favre had picks.

You do not get it do you?

You are assuming the fumble stats are only for those that are lost...that is not the case.

Peterson had 6 fumbles in the regular season. That is how many he lost, 7 total. Including the playoffs, he had 9 total fumbles on the season. Favre had 9 picks including the playoffs (7 in the regular season).

Favre accounted for almost double the turnovers than Peterson did (including fumbles)


And according to NFL.com Peterson had 19 fumbles in the regular season for his career(this is total, and includes fumbles lost).

The announcers were saying 20.

[OU_Sooners75]

And a pic 30 yards downfield is better than a fumble on the line of scrimmage.


No it not!

A fumble does not always mean a turnover. A INT does!

Not if you are talking (and I know you are) about a lost fumble then, I still disagree...

IMHO, a turnover is a turnover, no matter where it happens on the field. And from an offensive perspective, turning the ball over is bad no matter what!

[OU_Sooners75]

jesus....you have been given every opportunity to shut yer hole in this thread and you just refuse to do it...


He is incapable of it.

He is mister know it all...or have you not figured that out yet?

[Collier11]

AD had 7 fumbles and lost 6 this year, in the playoffs he technically had 2 and lost none although even AD admitted the one on the goal line was his fault.

The point remains that Peterson was responsible for 6 turnovers in the regular season and none in the playoffs.

Favre was resonsible for 9 turnovers in the regular season and 3 in the playoffs.

[OU_Sooners75]

AD had 7 fumbles and lost 6 this year, in the playoffs he technically had 2 and lost none although even AD admitted the one on the goal line was his fault.

The point remains that Peterson was responsible for 6 turnovers in the regular season and none in the playoffs.

Favre was resonsible for 9 turnovers in the regular season and 3 in the playoffs.


http://www.nfl.com/players/adrianpeterson/careerstats?id=PET260705

They keep track of regular season only...and it is all fumbles, not just fumbles lost.

ESPN has 7 with 6 lost.

Not sure bout you, but I tend to believe the official NFL site more so than ESPN.

[Collier11]

yea thats 6 lost, 7 total.
http://www.nfl.com/players/adrianpeterson/profile?id=PET260705

It doesnt matter though, Favre still had twice the turnovers as AD

[OU_Sooners75]

Then I stand corrected. 7 total 6 lost.

[OU_Sooners75]

Then I stand corrected. 7 total 6 lost.


Which by the way, is not all that bad, considering he rushed the ball 314 times in the regular season. That is a little over 50 carries to 1 fumble lost. And just over 44 carries per fumble.

Or better yet, 2.67 games/fumble lost and 2.29 games/fumble.

[Leroy Lizard]

If a QB heaves the ball downfield 60 yards and it is intercepted with no return, obviously that is not as bad as fumbling the ball away on your own line of scrimmage. Anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot.

It is stupid to think that all turnovers are equally bad.

If a lost fumble was equivalent to a deep interception, then going for it on fourth down and failing is equivalent to punting. Both situations result in turning the ball over to the opponent. The difference is field position.

Yes, there can be an argument that a lost fumble on your own 20-yard line is as bad as a lost fumble on your opponent's 20-yard line. But that is a completely different argument.

Also, almost all QBs have more turnovers than their team's RB, because a pass is simply higher risk than carrying the ball. You simply cannot compare the two, either in number or effect.

[Collier11]

Any turnover is "bad" but I would agree that if you fumble on the 11 yard line it is alot worse than if you get intercepted 30 yards down the field

[Leroy Lizard]

You know it. I know it. Even our pets know it. But I guarantee you within 12 hours some imbecile will try to argue against it.

Because I posted it.

[Collier11]

Leroy I argue with you just as much as anyone on this board so it pains me so to agree with you on anything :D

[Leroy Lizard]

But most of our arguments are just over matters of opinion. Here we are talking about common sense that anyone over the age of six should possess. Obviously some don't (and there's two of them in this thread).

[OU_Sooners75]

If a QB heaves the ball downfield 60 yards and it is intercepted with no return, obviously that is not as bad as fumbling the ball away on your own line of scrimmage. Anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot.

It is stupid to think that all turnovers are equally bad.

If a lost fumble was equivalent to a deep interception, then going for it on fourth down and failing is equivalent to punting. Both situations result in turning the ball over to the opponent. The difference is field position.

Yes, there can be an argument that a lost fumble on your own 20-yard line is as bad as a lost fumble on your opponent's 20-yard line. But that is a completely different argument.

Also, almost all QBs have more turnovers than their team's RB, because a pass is simply higher risk than carrying the ball. You simply cannot compare the two, either in number or effect.


You fail to see the point.

Turning the ball over PERIOD is bad.

Muffed punt, INT, Fumble lost, blocked fg, turnover on downs, etc. they are all bad, regardless where it occurs on the field.

You may think it is stupid to think they are equally bad, but in reality (ask any coach) they are.

If I had to choose a TO at the 11 yard line compared to the 45 on the other side of the field. I would most definitely take the one that occurred on the 45 on the opposite side of the field.

But to say that, it does not make the turnover any less worse than the other in these options.

[OU_Sooners75]

But most of our arguments are just over matters of opinion. Here we are talking about common sense that anyone over the age of six should possess. Obviously some don't (and there's two of them in this thread).


Nice backhanded insult.

[Collier11]

Is there such a thing as a backhanded insult??? :D

[OU_Sooners75]

Is there such a thing as a backhanded insult??? :D


You know, I am not really sure. But considering I am drinking beer and whiskey...I will say the damnedest things...LOL

[Collier11]

I wasnt drinking at all but got bored since it is nearly 5am so I started drinking Mountain Dew and Vodka, hell I dont start work til Monday so I aint got **** else to do, lol

[TUSooner]

Stop feeding the lizard!

[soonerfromgeorgia]

I think both Favre and AD should share the blame in the loss.

Favre making stupid throws with the game on the line. Some here don't seem to remember the other 3 passes that hit Saints, but were dropped or just knocked down.

AD was playing in the biggest game of his career and he fumbles at a higher rate than his season average. It doesn't matter what he did all year, 3 fumbles on Sunday does.

By the way,
You wouldn't be talking about the "freakish" move to make the recovery if he hadn't fumbled to start with !!!!!!!!!

[OU_Sooners75]

I think both Favre and AD should share the blame in the loss.

Favre making stupid throws with the game on the line. Some here don't seem to remember the other 3 passes that hit Saints, but were dropped or just knocked down.

AD was playing in the biggest game of his career and he fumbles at a higher rate than his season average. It doesn't matter what he did all year, 3 fumbles on Sunday does.

By the way,
You wouldn't be talking about the "freakish" move to make the recovery if he hadn't fumbled to start with !!!!!!!!!

Yeah, because AD was the one that turned the ball over....oh wait, he officially had ZERO turnovers in that game!

Favre was the one that threw that boneheaded pass that made the game go into OT.

If any blame should be pointed it should be to the NFL!

They just proved the point, that if given the chance, and they want some team to succeed, they will make it happen.

The 4th down play should have given the ball to the Vikes. The second down pass was a trap ball.

Anyone to say different obviously has blinders on!

Disclaimer: I am a fan of neither team. I did not care about who won this game. My team is the defending champions that did not make the playoffs, the Steelers.

[fwsooner22]

Also, let me add....

2009-2010 Minnesota Vikings have ONE Pro-Bowl Olineman (Steve Hutchinson). Not really sure where you are getting two!

Pretty much blows your opinion out of the water doesn't it?



The thing about assuming you have everything correct and your opinion is more important than anyone elses is.......you can always be WRONG. I am sure now you will have some adolescent come back and tell me I never played football. In the end you were wrong. The rest of it is just words.


2010 Pro Bowl Roster
Tackle * Jason Peters, Philadelphia
* Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota
^ Jonathan Stinchcomb, New Orleans
+ David Diehl, N.Y. Giants
Guard * Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota
*^ Jahri Evans, New Orleans
* Leonard Davis, Dallas
+ Chris Snee, N.Y. Giants
Center * Andre Gurode, Dallas (injured)
* Shaun O'Hara, N.Y. Giants
#^ Jonathan Goodwin, New Orleans
+ Ryan Kalil, Carolina

[CobraKai]

I think both Favre and AD should share the blame in the loss.

Favre making stupid throws with the game on the line. Some here don't seem to remember the other 3 passes that hit Saints, but were dropped or just knocked down.

AD was playing in the biggest game of his career and he fumbles at a higher rate than his season average. It doesn't matter what he did all year, 3 fumbles on Sunday does.

By the way,
You wouldn't be talking about the "freakish" move to make the recovery if he hadn't fumbled to start with !!!!!!!!!

Don't forget Harvin and Berrian. They should also share in the blame.

[ouleaf]

One thing I think Peterson could use the offseason to work on is being able to carry the ball with his left hand as well as his right. He seems prone to carrying with his right arm no matter what direction he runs. It does drive me nuts to see him run to the left with a LB bearing down on him and the ball so much more exposed in his right arm.

[badger]

The thing about assuming you have everything correct and your opinion is more important than anyone elses is.......you can always be WRONG. I am sure now you will have some adolescent come back and tell me I never played football. In the end you were wrong. The rest of it is just words.


2010 Pro Bowl Roster
Tackle * Jason Peters, Philadelphia
* Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota
^ Jonathan Stinchcomb, New Orleans
+ David Diehl, N.Y. Giants
Guard * Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota
*^ Jahri Evans, New Orleans
* Leonard Davis, Dallas
+ Chris Snee, N.Y. Giants
Center * Andre Gurode, Dallas (injured)
* Shaun O'Hara, N.Y. Giants
#^ Jonathan Goodwin, New Orleans
+ Ryan Kalil, Carolina

To be fair, wasn't one of those guys a replacement for a Super Bowl bound guy?

[rawlingsHOH]

If a QB heaves the ball downfield 60 yards and it is intercepted with no return, obviously that is not as bad as fumbling the ball away on your own line of scrimmage. Anyone that thinks otherwise is an idiot.

It is stupid to think that all turnovers are equally bad.

If a lost fumble was equivalent to a deep interception, then going for it on fourth down and failing is equivalent to punting. Both situations result in turning the ball over to the opponent. The difference is field position.

Yes, there can be an argument that a lost fumble on your own 20-yard line is as bad as a lost fumble on your opponent's 20-yard line. But that is a completely different argument.

Also, almost all QBs have more turnovers than their team's RB, because a pass is simply higher risk than carrying the ball. You simply cannot compare the two, either in number or effect.

You are stuck in fantasy land. Why don't you talk about what exactly happened with the turnovers this year?

Favre had 2 turnovers returned for TD, a pick and a fumble. I think both were against Pitt, and the pass was actually Chester's fault. Peterson had a turnover in OT that may have cost them the Chicago game. Though none of his turnovers directly resulted in a TD.

[Leroy Lizard]

You are stuck in fantasy land. Why don't you talk about what exactly happened with the turnovers this year?


Why those particular turnovers? We were comparing picks and fumbles. If you want to argue on a different point, fine.

[fwsooner22]

To be fair, wasn't one of those guys a replacement for a Super Bowl bound guy?

NO


* Asterisk denotes starter
# Injury replacement
% Replacement
^ Super Bowl participant
+ Super Bowl participant's replacement

2010 Pro Bowl Roster
Tackle
* Jason Peters, Philadelphia
* Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota
^ Jonathan Stinchcomb, New Orleans
+ David Diehl, N.Y. Giants
Guard
* Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota
*^ Jahri Evans, New Orleans
* Leonard Davis, Dallas
+ Chris Snee, N.Y. Giants
Center
* Andre Gurode, Dallas (injured)
* Shaun O'Hara, N.Y. Giants
#^ Jonathan Goodwin, New Orleans
+ Ryan Kalil, Carolina

[Sooner04]

Favre had 2 turnovers returned for TD, a pick and a fumble. I think both were against Pitt, and the pass was actually Chester's fault. Peterson had a turnover in OT that may have cost them the Chicago game. Though none of his turnovers directly resulted in a TD.
Didn't Peterson get stripped by Matthews in the Green Bay game in Minnesota? Didn't that get returned for a TD? These divisional games all run together because we play them all twice every year.

Yep! Looked it up:

Adrian Peterson rushed to the left for 2 yard loss. Adrian Peterson fumbled. Clay Matthews recovered fumble and returned for 42 yards (Mason Crosby made PAT)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

you know, the game has changed so much since sweetness played -> rule changes, instant replay, jerry jones.

as for the original topic,

unwritten rule 1 - future greatness of players is measured by the current thinking on how the postion is to be played. running backs and fumbles are eerily similar to kickers and missed field goals.

unwritten rule 2 - players from a different generation are typically exempt from stat to stat comparisons when using criteria from unwritten rule 1.

[badger]

Didn't Peterson get stripped by Matthews in the Green Bay game in Minnesota? Didn't that get returned for a TD? These divisional games all run together because we play them all twice every year.

Yep! Looked it up:

Matthews was a real surprise for us this season... and was a surprise as SC too. Had to walk-on to make the Trojan team. We picked him up in either the second or third round, don't remember which.

The AD play you're referring to was one where he was fighting really hard for extra yards and as he was falling, Clay grabbed at the ball, then ran it back.

It was a very bizarre play, and I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it didn't come at AD's expense. It was at the end of the first half if I'm not mistaken, so it gave us lowly Packer fans a shred of hope that the massacre we were receiving wouldn't hold up the entire game and we might win. Silly us :(

[Sooner04]

It was a very bizarre play, and I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it didn't come at AD's expense.
This line of thinking has always been so foreign to me. I love Sam Bradford. He might be my all-time favorite Sooner football player, and that's saying a lot because I've got a HUGE picture of Keith Jackson going for 88 in my back room.

But if the Vikings are playing Sam Bradford's team, and Sam Bradford throws a pick-6, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be celebrating like crazy without a hint of remorse. I wish all Sooners luck and avoidance of injuries in the pros, but it's all Vikings all the time when they start playing with that Wilson Duke.

[BoulderSooner79]

I tend to move my NFL allegiance (if any) around depending on coach and roster and style of play. With free agency and the coaching carousel, who are you pulling for year to year - the jersey? (No, they change that too). Sadly, the college game mimics the NFL as closely as it can, but at least in the college game I can relate it to the school I attended.

[OU_Sooners75]

NO


* Asterisk denotes starter
# Injury replacement
% Replacement
^ Super Bowl participant
+ Super Bowl participant's replacement

2010 Pro Bowl Roster
Tackle
* Jason Peters, Philadelphia
* Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota
^ Jonathan Stinchcomb, New Orleans
+ David Diehl, N.Y. Giants
Guard
* Steve Hutchinson, Minnesota
*^ Jahri Evans, New Orleans
* Leonard Davis, Dallas
+ Chris Snee, N.Y. Giants
Center
* Andre Gurode, Dallas (injured)
* Shaun O'Hara, N.Y. Giants
#^ Jonathan Goodwin, New Orleans
+ Ryan Kalil, Carolina

Weird. You pulled from a roster that was posted 12 hours ago (at the time of this post).

Meaning, the original roster, McKinnie was not included...and the original roster is the one I pulled from.

Easy to make yourself look good when one is a replacement.

[Jello Biafra]

But most of our arguments are just over matters of opinion. Here we are talking about common sense that anyone over the age of six should possess. Obviously some don't (and there's two of them in this thread).

can YOU tell who the coaches are in this thread yet? i mean real honest to goodness, gameplanning coaches. not just the ones who play one on play station.

[fwsooner22]

Weird. You pulled from a roster that was posted 12 hours ago (at the time of this post).

Meaning, the original roster, McKinnie was not included...and the original roster is the one I pulled from.

Easy to make yourself look good when one is a replacement.


Wow. What the heck does the time of the post have to do with anything. No Vikings have been added to the roster. Why would they until three days ago they might have been in the Super Bowl.

The asterik means he is the ORIGINAL starter. Just go to NFL.com and see the original pro bowl roster. I am tired of making you look bad. If I post it here you will have some other childish remark. I have grown tired of it.

Post your roster that you "pulled" from that did not have McKinnie on it. PLEASE.

[Leroy Lizard]

can YOU tell who the coaches are in this thread yet? i mean real honest to goodness, gameplanning coaches. not just the ones who play one on play station.

Your arguments don't even make sense for PlayStation. If you played football, you must have been riding the little yellow schoolbus to practice.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

This line of thinking has always been so foreign to me. I love Sam Bradford. He might be my all-time favorite Sooner football player, and that's saying a lot because I've got a HUGE picture of Keith Jackson going for 88 in my back room.

But if the Vikings are playing Sam Bradford's team, and Sam Bradford throws a pick-6, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be celebrating like crazy without a hint of remorse. I wish all Sooners luck and avoidance of injuries in the pros, but it's all Vikings all the time when they start playing with that Wilson Duke.

This...

[yermom]

i follow the Cowboys, but i don't like them near as much as the Sooners

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Im a Raider fan..


An Interesting Fact...The Raiders and the Sooners have made the same number of NFL playoff appearances the last 7 years

[KantoSooner]

That's eerie, are they alteregos or something?

[Leroy Lizard]

Alternate universe?

[TUSooner]

This line of thinking has always been so foreign to me. I love Sam Bradford. He might be my all-time favorite Sooner football player, and that's saying a lot because I've got a HUGE picture of Keith Jackson going for 88 in my back room.

But if the Vikings are playing Sam Bradford's team, and Sam Bradford throws a pick-6, you can bet your bottom dollar I will be celebrating like crazy without a hint of remorse. I wish all Sooners luck and avoidance of injuries in the pros, but it's all Vikings all the time when they start playing with that Wilson Duke.

Swap "Saints" for "Vikings" and that's me. I like OU guys to do well in the pros. And in a game between NFL teams I don't really care about, I'll lean toward the team with Sooners. But OU, the team adore above all others, does not play in the NFL. And let me add, if the Vikings had beaten the Saints, it would have been no consolation to me whatsoever that AD and Loadholt played a great game. Just to go on and on, I like Payton Manning loads, but if his team beats my Saints, it'll be no consolation that he, and not some other QB, beat them. Just sayin in advance :D

[OU_Sooners75]

Wow. What the heck does the time of the post have to do with anything. No Vikings have been added to the roster. Why would they until three days ago they might have been in the Super Bowl.

The asterik means he is the ORIGINAL starter. Just go to NFL.com and see the original pro bowl roster. I am tired of making you look bad. If I post it here you will have some other childish remark. I have grown tired of it.

Post your roster that you "pulled" from that did not have McKinnie on it. PLEASE.


I know you are new to reading.....so maybe you should try rereading my post again.

[OU_Sooners75]

Your arguments don't even make sense for PlayStation. If you played football, you must have been riding the little yellow schoolbus to practice.


Wow, even when you try to insult someone you fail! :eek:

[Leroy Lizard]

Wow, even when you try to insult someone you fail!

It took you nearly 13 hours to come up with THAT?!?!

[fwsooner22]

I know you are new to reading.....so maybe you should try rereading my post again.

Just post the list you are quoting from and quit taking childish shots at people. It's not hard to be respectful to other posters you know nothing about. You have to try and give effort to make people feel small for your own enjoyment. Back up your mouth and show me the "original" list you are quoting from. Otherwise you are what you appear to be.

[Jello Biafra]

It took you nearly 13 hours to come up with THAT?!?!

sorry we are so slow on these responses....we have been taking turns pleasuring the women in your life while you are surfing the internet and making freinds and influencing people.

[Sooner04]

Yep. This thread is just about done.

[NormanPride]

Just about? It's charcoal.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yep, time to lock.

[NormanPride]

THEN STOP POSTING.

[Leroy Lizard]

So... why are you posting?

[Sooner04]

does....not.....compute.

[C&CDean]

WTF is wrong with some people. Geez.