Rumor Kevin Wilson to La. Tech

[primetime43]

I don't have sources on this but my buddy who host a sports talk show in North Louisiana said its a strong rumor around there. Supposedly there was a flight from Norman to Ruston. Take it for what its worth.

If this did happen I would be thrilled. Kevin Wilson has done some good things here but I'm ready to see Heupel take over the offense. What do you guys think?

[sooneron]

Not "thrilled". It's not that good of a job. La teck is a team that occasionally gives someone a tough game, but it's a step down.

Kevin should hold out for a job at a school that is near the bottom of a bcs conference that can still win. Something on the level of Kentucky or Arizona (like Mike) would be a good find for him.
I have no idea if Josh is ready for an OC position at an elite program.

[badger]

Don't do it, Kevin. Even if you're desperate for your own program, the timing is awful and the proximity to LSU makes it sh!t-tier for life.

[MojoRisen]

I also think he should hold out for a better Job - 08 was sick Offense, we had no line this year and ended with some decent play from a Freshman QB who should be better with his recievers this year =- with Summer and Spring to work on timing.

[sooneredaco]

Wouldn't be a good move for him or us.... Everybody has different opinions of Wilson, but IMO we would be hard pressed to find a better replacement at this time. The guy has done some great things here. We are only a couple seasons removed from having the greatest offense in CFB history. Next year will be very telling as to what he can do for us.

[gaylordfan1]

Lets hope not. Everyone has had their K. Wilson bashig days... but seriously, who would be better than him? I don't think Heupel is next in line for the O-coord job. I think Nurvell (sp) is next, hell Gundy has been on the staff longer than Heupel. I don't think he is ready. I don't know why Wilson would settle for that position anyways. He had much better offers last year and turned them down.

[primetime43]

Everyone you do realize where La. Tech's former coach just went right. It may not be a BCS school but it could lead to greener pastures for Wilson down the road.

[soonermix]

and where are the rumors about hiring venables?
i am still waiting for them

[boomerborn79]

and where are the rumors about hiring venables?
i am still waiting for them

What were firing Venables...Thats a terrible rumor to start:D

[ndpruitt03]

http://louisianatech.scout.com/a.z?s=347&p=2&c=939459&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2flouisianatech.scout.com% 2f2%2f939459.html

[OU_PhD]

Mangino and Leach free?

[IslandSooner]

I will take both. OC by commitee

[Leroy Lizard]

If this did happen I would be thrilled. Kevin Wilson has done some good things here but I'm ready to see Heupel take over the offense. What do you guys think?

I think Heupel has done nothing to demonstrate that he would be an adequate replacement for KW as offensive coordinator. Great QB coach, though.

Promoting Heupel to OC would be like Iowa promoting Chuck Long to OC.

[NormanPride]

I think he can hold out for better. Personally, when Ferentz eventually gets fired I think he should go there.

[MojoRisen]

Ferentz just won the Orange bowl. That should keep him around for a bit - 15 Million to the program for the BCS Appearance.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

ferentz will never be fired there, wilson will be waiting a long time if he holds out for that job

[goingoneight]

and where are the rumors about hiring venables?
i am still waiting for them

You must have hit the ignore button on K-State and Arkansas. BV isn't ready to leave here yet according to all sources.

[76soonergrad]

Lets hope not. Everyone has had their K. Wilson bashig days... but seriously, who would be better than him? I don't think Heupel is next in line for the O-coord job. I think Nurvell (sp) is next, hell Gundy has been on the staff longer than Heupel. I don't think he is ready. I don't know why Wilson would settle for that position anyways. He had much better offers last year and turned them down.

Is Mike Leach available? heh

[cvsooner]

Collegefootballtalk.com also indicates Wilson is a candidate for the East Carolina job since Skip Holtz...er, skipped.

[GKeeper316]

keep him here. the problems on offense werent anyone's "fault". its like a boxer loses an arm the day before a fight and people blame his trainer for not having him in good enough shape when he gets his *** kicked.

[NormanPride]

ferentz will never be fired there, wilson will be waiting a long time if he holds out for that job

That guy is the exact opposite of Stoops. Four years off, one year on. Just in time for his contract renewal.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

That guy is the exact opposite of Stoops. Four years off, one year on. Just in time for his contract renewal.

that one year keeps him well paid and incredibly well liked around here, they are very proud of their occasional good years, just like the hayden fry years

[sooneron]

Everyone you do realize where La. Tech's former coach just went right. It may not be a BCS school but it could lead to greener pastures for Wilson down the road.
The deal is, Wilson has had a couple of opportunities in the past to coach at bcs schools. It would be like turning down texas teck to take the baylor job a year later.

[w0lfe]

LA Tech: Despite several reports, FootballScoop has learned that Kevin Wilson will not be the next head coach at LA Tech.

[ashley]

I think Heupel has done nothing to demonstrate that he would be an adequate replacement for KW as offensive coordinator. Great QB coach, though.

Promoting Heupel to OC would be like Iowa promoting Chuck Long to OC.

Exactly.

[primetime43]

Rest easy Kevin Wilson fans. Looks like he is staying put. Sonny Dikes (Arizona OC and son of Spike Dikes) looks to be the favorite.

[OU_Sooners75]

keep him here. the problems on offense werent anyone's "fault". its like a boxer loses an arm the day before a fight and people blame his trainer for not having him in good enough shape when he gets his *** kicked.


maybe not this year.

But did you see the play calling the last few years in the big games?

It left something to be desired.


I am not saying Kevin Wilson is a bad coordinator or coach. But I quietly questioned some of his play calling in the big games.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

espn is saying they are hiring sonny dykes

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4842888

[Leroy Lizard]

maybe not this year.

But did you see the play calling the last few years in the big games?

It left something to be desired.

Good defensive play will make any playcalling look bad. (And how odd that these playcalling problems appear in big games against real good opponents.)

We're playing Bonehead State and call a reverse. Every defender gets totally suckered and Broyles runs for 80 yards and a score. Brilliant playcalling!

We're playing Bonecrusher Univesity and call a reverse. Being well trained, the defensive end doesn't fall for it and decapitates Broyles 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Terrible playcalling!

[TXBOOMER]

KW would only take that job if Stoops wants him to. OC at OU > HC at LaTech. I hope he takes it. I hope the new OC doesn't have any stretch running plays in his arsenal unless of course the O Line demonstrates they can zone block. Then I would have no problem with it.

[badger]

OK, stand down. Sonny it is.

Linky (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20100120_92_0_Source449601)

[JLEW1818]

lol, he had a great last game at Arizona... HAHAHA

[TXBOOMER]

As I suspected he is not going anywhere. I guess we will be stuck with him forever. F!

[Leroy Lizard]

Great news!

[NorthernIowaSooner]

We're playing Bonehead State and call a reverse. Every defender gets totally suckered and Broyles runs for 80 yards and a score. Brilliant playcalling!

We're playing Bonecrusher Univesity and call a reverse. Being well trained, the defensive end doesn't fall for it and decapitates Broyles 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Terrible playcalling!

i agree with that being the perception but isnt that part of an offensive coordinators job? if a school is well trained to snuff out plays like then maybe you shouldnt be calling them. not throwing KW under the bus (b/c personally i like him and the point a minute offense when the team can rack up the scores is sweet), just dont think its a good analogy on your part

[Collier11]

Injuries

[Leroy Lizard]

i agree with that being the perception but isnt that part of an offensive coordinators job? if a school is well trained to snuff out plays like then maybe you shouldnt be calling them.

What are you going to call?

This isn't sandlot football. You can only run that which you have practiced. And sometimes the defense has stuffed everything you have tried. Because they're good.

And sometimes you call the right play and the OL doesn't block adequately. Guess who gets the blame?

[NorthernIowaSooner]

What are you going to call?

This isn't sandlot football. You can only run that which you have practiced. And sometimes the defense has stuffed everything you have tried. Because they're good.

And sometimes you call the right play and the OL doesn't block adequately. Guess who gets the blame?

personally id call something other than a reverse. i dont like the risk against this supposed Bonecrusher U, they sound good

[Leroy Lizard]

personally id call something other than a reverse. i dont like the risk against this supposed Bonecrusher U, they sound good

Okay, you call the fullback dive, but your OL misses the block and you're next having to dig DeMarco Murray out of the turf.

"Why did he run Murray right into the teeth of the defense?!?!"

Fans don't understand what the OC is dealing with in the booth. I would love to see a fan call the plays sometime, but I couldn't stomach the shutout.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

Okay, you call the fullback dive, but your OL misses the block and you're next having to dig DeMarco Murray out of the turf.

"Why did he run Murray right into the teeth of the defense?!?!"

Fans don't understand what the OC is dealing with in the booth. I would love to see a fan call the plays sometime, but I couldn't stomach the shutout.

didnt realize demarco had moved to fullback, but all the same im guessing demarco would rather be dug into the turf then his offensive lines butt cheeks like he was so many times this year

im not claiming to be an OC or that i could do it im just saying these are things the OC has to account for going back to your original post on running reverses against teams of varying strength. you might fool em, you might get buried, but running it against a strong opponent and a well trained one is going to get you bitched at by a fan base if they snuff it out

[RedstickSooner]

Lets hope not. Everyone has had their K. Wilson bashig days... but seriously, who would be better than him? I don't think Heupel is next in line for the O-coord job. I think Nurvell (sp) is next, hell Gundy has been on the staff longer than Heupel. I don't think he is ready. I don't know why Wilson would settle for that position anyways. He had much better offers last year and turned them down.

Leach would be better. But I don't know that we'd hire him, as his leaving was a bit acrimonious, wasn't it?

And, I say this as a Kevin Wilson fan -- I don't want him to leave, and I'm tickled pink he's our OC. I'm just saying I think Leach would be better. After all, Leach was, effectively, our OC when we won the crystal football.

[goingoneight]

With Mike Leach, you throw out the run game and you run into coach-versus-coordinator issues when he doesn't want to punt or go for a field goal.

Just Sayin... he ain't the end-all answer to losing all our starters this year. Nothing is... except having backups all capable of being Sam Bradford, Jermaine Gresham, Brody Eldridge, etc.

[RedstickSooner]

With Mike Leach, you throw out the run game and you run into coach-versus-coordinator issues when he doesn't want to punt or go for a field goal.

Just Sayin... he ain't the end-all answer to losing all our starters this year. Nothing is... except having backups all capable of being Sam Bradford, Jermaine Gresham, Brody Eldridge, etc.

Don't you suppose he'd modify his gameplan a bit if he had the kinda stable of backs we've got?

Good points, though :)

[Leroy Lizard]

im not claiming to be an OC or that i could do it im just saying these are things the OC has to account for going back to your original post on running reverses against teams of varying strength.

Sometimes the opponent's strengths and your own weaknesses don't appear until the game begins.

This was the problem with our offensive line this past season. It wasn't that they weren't any good, but that they were inconsistent. They probably practiced well, but then all of a sudden the defensive tackle is faring a lot better against your offensive tackle than anyone could have predicted.

The next week your offensive guard is struggling.

The next week, call a deep pass but the QB, who has thrown the ball near-perfect every time in practice, underthrows it and it gets intercepted. Or, he doesn't get the pass off because his offensive lineman missed a block. Or the WR doesn't get open because the safety read the play.


you might fool em, you might get buried, but running it against a strong opponent and a well trained one is going to get you bitched at by a fan base if they snuff it out

One thing I have learned by reading message boards, not only SoonerFans but others as well, is that the fan base is going to be pissed off no matter what you run. The fan base has a very simple formula that it applies: If the offense struggled, it must have been the offensive coordinator's fault. That's the depth of their analysis.

[silverwheels]

Don't you suppose he'd modify his gameplan a bit if he had the kinda stable of backs we've got?

Good points, though :)

Probably not. Leach is going to throw the ball first, then he's going to throw the ball, then he might run a draw play in there, but mostly he's going to throw the ball.

As much as I like Leach for his character, I don't like his style of offense and I'd rather not see it in Norman again.

[TXBOOMER]

With Mike Leach, you throw out the run game and you run into coach-versus-coordinator issues when he doesn't want to punt or go for a field goal.

Just Sayin... he ain't the end-all answer to losing all our starters this year. Nothing is... except having backups all capable of being Sam Bradford, Jermaine Gresham, Brody Eldridge, etc.

Leach would be a better OC than Wilson. I doubt he is looking to come here and I doubt we are looking to bring him. But, I'd take him all day long over Wilson.

[Scott D]

I'll be waiting, so that I can start the first Fire Josh Heupel as the OC thread.

[silverwheels]

I seriously don't get the love affair with Leach (or Wilson, but he's better than a lot of options). This isn't 1999 anymore. What major trophy has Leach ever won, either as a coordinator or a head coach?

[Leroy Lizard]

I'll be waiting, so that I can start the first Fire Josh Heupel as the OC thread.

You mean, after our first loss?

[Tigeman]

Hell no, why do we even need to wait for a loss???? We can go undefeated and we'll still call for his head! :P

As someone else said in the thread earlier, I guess he's the lead candidate for the East Carolina job!

[Leroy Lizard]

But if his offense sets a scoring record that hasn't been touched in over seventy years... oh, never mind.

[boomerborn79]

But if his offense sets a scoring record that hasn't been touched in over seventy years... oh, never mind.

Wilson= Finesse offense
Leach= More finesse offense

Yes they score alot. How many times did we get stuffed or slowed down inside our 20 in our two losses last year and our 5 losses this year. You can blame this year on injuries (I do) but you can also look at who is running it and ask why he didn't do certain things. Yes he is more capable than me and I cannot be an offensive coordinator but, I watch alot of football and see many people get hurt on offense and the offenses keep clicking. Hense, uterus they dumbed the play book down and still was able to get it going in the second half. I am really just trying to say the finesse offense we run is not my kinda ball. I just wish we had a little more power in it. The only time KW showed a power offense is when he had AD. OH and when you have great athletes it's easier to score from outside the 20's but when you get inside the 20 it takes great playcalling and a power mind set. BRADFORD made the great playcalling last year by knowing his reads and how to read. This is my opinion, I am not bashing KW it's just my arguement as to why he is not the best and I that I don't like his style of offense. Hope it doesn't make everyone mad.

[boomerborn79]

What are you going to call?

This isn't sandlot football. You can only run that which you have practiced. And sometimes the defense has stuffed everything you have tried. Because they're good.

And sometimes you call the right play and the OL doesn't block adequately. Guess who gets the blame?

So by this logic, he isn't a good coordinator he is lucky his plays work and unlucky when they don't work. A good offensive coordinator has the deffense guessing and off balance.

[soonerboy_odanorth]

Look, there are lots of options for an offensive coordinator out there. That is, there are lots of passionate qualified hooman beans that could be a good to great coordinator working with the resources that OU has.

But why throw the baby out with the bath water? I have been a proponent of Wilson, but I'm not "in love" with him. He IS replaceable. And, he has his skeletons... along the Magino lines... he can be a real s-o-b from what I've heard. But that is completely beside the point. Completely.

You want touchy feely? Can 'em all and get Boo Blake back. God knows he loved his "kids".

From development, to game prep, to schemes, to play-calling.... Name.. one.. offensive coordinator... better!

You can't.

And I say all this being one of the biggest bee-hatchers of Long that there was. He was OC to a Heisman trophy winner too, ya know?

Point being, every coach with the dollars they are plunking in the bank are absolutely open to criticism. I'm not bashing some of you because you are dishing it. But choose your battles.

Show of hands here that want to go back to Chuck Long as OC....








.... and be careful what you wish for.

[Eielson]

Are we really scared of having no running game with Leach? I mean, did we have a running game this year with Wilson?

[Leroy Lizard]

Yes they score alot. How many times did we get stuffed or slowed down inside our 20 in our two losses last year and our 5 losses this year. You can blame this year on injuries (I do) but you can also look at who is running it and ask why he didn't do certain things.

If you are saying there are things that he was supposed to do, then you must what these things are. What are the things he was supposed to do?

BTW, to say that they scored a lot last year is a huge understatement. No one has scored like they did in the modern history of college football.

And what is the job of the OC above all else? To install an offense that scores.



Yes he is more capable than me and I cannot be an offensive coordinator but, I watch alot of football and see many people get hurt on offense and the offenses keep clicking.

Gresham
Bradford
Practically the entire offensive line.

Anyone can replace a running back. Quarterback, tight end and offensive line? And we still ended up with a winning season and winning our bowl game. Not too shabby.



Hense, uterus they dumbed the play book down and still was able to get it going in the second half.

They lost ONE player. And still lost.


I am really just trying to say the finesse offense we run is not my kinda ball. I just wish we had a little more power in it. The only time KW showed a power offense is when he had AD.

Oh, good grief.

Gee, I wonder why KW's offense showed more power when AD was in the backfield?



OH and when you have great athletes it's easier to score from outside the 20's but when you get inside the 20 it takes great playcalling and a power mind set. BRADFORD made the great playcalling last year by knowing his reads and how to read.

And what plays was he reading into? The one's designed by KW.

Playcalling is a lesser role of the OC. Most of your games are won in practice.


This is my opinion, I am not bashing KW it's just my arguement as to why he is not the best and I that I don't like his style of offense. Hope it doesn't make everyone mad.

Okay, name someone better.

[soonerborn30]

But if his offense sets a scoring record that hasn't been touched in over seventy years... oh, never mind.

Seriously? This again? Ok. If you have NFL caliber guys at QB, TE, all over the OL, and WR, then you better put up some pretty serious numbers. What KW "did" in 2008 was what he should have done; dominate with superior talent. He "did" nothing special in 2008, he did his job. When he's tested, when he's handed a challenge (injuries, inexperience, etc.) he apparently isn't quite the Coordinator of the Year anymore, is he? If you think he deserves credit for what he "did" in 2008, he's available for criticism as well. You can't just have the good stuff. Come on, man. You're supposedly an educator. Do I really need to explain the whole yin/yang thing to you? Kevin Wilson does not deserve to be fired. He's a decent OC. Nothing more, nothing less. He'll be lucky if a major BCS school wants him anytime in the near future.

[StoopTroup]

Wow....a guy that basically got blamed for losing to phlorida is a real SOB to people. Who would have thought. I'm surprised he didn't just take the first job that came his way.

I think there is just more stuff behind the scenes that maybe we as fans shouldn't know. Guys leave programs all the time and later start spewing stuff that they wouldn't have wanted a Coach to have said about them.

[StoopTroup]

Seriously? This again? Ok. If you have NFL caliber guys at QB, TE, all over the OL, and WR, then you better put up some pretty serious numbers. What KW "did" in 2008 was what he should have done; dominate with superior talent. He "did" nothing special in 2008, he did his job. When he's tested, when he's handed a challenge (injuries, inexperience, etc.) he apparently isn't quite the Coordinator of the Year anymore, is he? If you think he deserves credit for what he "did" in 2008, he's available for criticism as well. You can't just have the good stuff. Come on, man. You're supposedly an educator. Do I really need to explain the whole yin/yang thing to you? Kevin Wilson does not deserve to be fired. He's a decent OC. Nothing more, nothing less. He'll be lucky if a major BCS school wants him anytime in the near future.

Still...other Teams have had NFL Caliber guys and didn't come close to those numbers. Matter of fact....we took a Trophy from one of those in 2000.

[Leroy Lizard]

So by this logic, he isn't a good coordinator he is lucky his plays work and unlucky when they don't work. A good offensive coordinator has the deffense guessing and off balance.

Just like Switzer always had them guessing, right? "Gee, it is third and two. I wonder if they will call the triple option."

You don't win just by calling plays no one expects. ("It's 3rd and 21. Let's call the fulback dive. No one expects that!") You win by calling those plays that have been demonstrated to work and having the players execute the play as they should. It isn't so much that the defense is fooled; they just can't stop the play because it was designed to counteract what you do to stop it.

Then your OL forgets his assignment and the play gets blown up.

[Leroy Lizard]

Seriously? This again? Ok. If you have NFL caliber guys at QB, TE, all over the OL, and WR, then you better put up some pretty serious numbers.

I can guarantee you that in over 70 years of college football, that is not the most NFL talent that has been amassed on an offense.

[Leroy Lizard]

He's a decent OC. Nothing more, nothing less. He'll be lucky if a major BCS school wants him anytime in the near future.

Decent? He won the national Assistant Coach of the Year from his assistant coaching colleagues.

And they know far more about coaching than you do.

[soonerborn30]

So does the fact that he didn't win it this year mean they know more than you too? Or is that not something you're ready to admit yet?

Speaking of which, you seem to think you know quite a bit about this whole OC thing. Why don't you enlighten me on exactly what qualifies you to be judge and jury in all matters Kevin Wilson? And please try not to mention any experience I could replicate by shoplifting at Barnes and Noble. Thanks!

[silverwheels]

Are we really scared of having no running game with Leach? I mean, did we have a running game this year with Wilson?

No, but that was because we couldn't block. With Leach, it's because of the scheme. He doesn't like running the ball except as a surprise.

[Leroy Lizard]

So does the fact that he didn't win it this year mean they know more than you too?

So to rise above decent you must win it every year.

Okay, name me one decent offensive coordinator.

[soonerborn30]

Without Google cheating, the first OC names that come to mind are Greg Robinson at UT, Steve Sarkisian from USC, and Jimbo Fischer from FSU. And one of those isn't even an OC anymore. I'm sure I don't have to specify, since you know all about this stuff, right? The point isn't whether I can name another OC from a team I couldn't give two dumps about. The point is that I'm entitled to my opinion, just like you are. If your opinion can be condescending, arrogant, and shortsighted, mine can be "uniformed" and ignorant. But then again, that's just my useless opinion too. What a pickle we seem to be in here, Teach!

Your turn. (pssst...this is the part where you yammer on about how much more you know than me.)

Oh, and could you do me a big, fat, Mangino-sized favor sweet pea? Change your effing signature. There's no h at the end of Cheeto.

[silverwheels]

Without Google cheating, the first OC names that come to mind are Greg Robinson at UT, Steve Sarkisian from USC, and Jimbo Fischer from FSU. And one of those isn't even an OC anymore. I'm sure I don't have to specify, since you know all about this stuff, right? The point isn't whether I can name another OC from a team I couldn't give two dumps about. The point is that I'm entitled to my opinion, just like you are. If your opinion can be condescending, arrogant, and shortsighted, mine can be "uniformed" and ignorant. But then again, that's just my useless opinion too. What a pickle we seem to be in here, Teach!

Your turn. (pssst...this is the part where you yammer on about how much more you know than me.)

Oh, and could you do me a big, fat, Mangino-sized favor sweet pea? Change your effing signature. There's no h at the end of Cheeto.


Greg Robinson is the defensive coordinator for Michigan.

[Leroy Lizard]

Who is Greg Robinson?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Greg Robinson is the defensive coordinator for Michigan.

Well, he did say he was uninformed and ignorant! :P

[soonerborn30]

Greg Davis. See? Does that show you how little I know about other people's OC's? I had to Google cheat just to get that one.

You know, now that I think about it, the fewer of those ******nozzles (UT Staff) I can name the better.

There. There's your decent coordinator. Greg Davis. Now tell me about how people at UT want to fire him. Then watch me not give a crap.

[silverwheels]

Greg Davis wasn't considered a decent coordinator until 2005 when he gave Vince about 4 plays to memorize and let his athleticism and teammates do the rest.

[gaylordfan1]

Its a no go. Wilson isn't going. Sleep easy for now my friends. :D

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4842888

[Tigeman]

Screw it... if he leaves... lets go steal Gus Malzahn from AU! We owe them pricks one for buying Cam Newton...lol.

[yankee]

Greg Davis wasn't considered a decent coordinator until 2005 when he gave Vince about 4 plays to memorize and let his athleticism and teammates do the rest.

he still isn't considered a decent coordinator...texas fans have been calling for his head the last two years.

[silverwheels]

Its a no go. Wilson isn't going. Sleep easy for now my friends. :D

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4842888

Old news. Wilson is a serious candidate for the ECU job now.

[btk108]

Life is good with no LL posts....would you ppl stop quoting him in your reply....start it with "Dear LL" or you could just go beat your head against the wall, same results.

[silverwheels]

he still isn't considered a decent coordinator...texas fans have been calling for his head the last two years.

Yeah, they were all over him until Vince's junior year and then backed off somewhat. I would guess that they like to see a running game where the QB isn't the primary threat.

[stoopified]

Collegefootballtalk.com also indicates Wilson is a candidate for the East Carolina job since Skip Holtz...er, skipped.I couls see KW taking this job.It has become a decnt starting point for headcoaches.I would say though that if it were me I would hold out for at least a TT-Arizona State-Stanford -Illinois-Purdue-Colorado-Missouri-Nortwestern level job.In other words at least a mid-level major college team.

[Leroy Lizard]

Greg Davis wasn't considered a decent coordinator until 2005 when he gave Vince about 4 plays to memorize and let his athleticism and teammates do the rest.

Oh, the irony!

A poster comes in bashing KW and using the same arguments that Horn fans have been using against Greg Davis. So who does he cite as better than KW? Greg Davis!

This is why I say that the bashing of OCs is the same all over the net. Go to hornfans and you will the sam arguments used. "We won in spite of Greg Davis. Give any OC that much talent... His playcalling is sooooo predictable."


would you ppl stop quoting him in your reply....

Why should they care about your problems?

[Salt City Sooner]

Greg Davis. See? Does that show you how little I know about other people's OC's? I had to Google cheat just to get that one.

You know, now that I think about it, the fewer of those ******nozzles (UT Staff) I can name the better.

There. There's your decent coordinator. Greg Davis. Now tell me about how people at UT want to fire him. Then watch me not give a crap.
You might want to cheat again. Sarkisian's the head coach at Washington.

[Collier11]

KEVIN WILSONS OFFENSE LAST YR WHEN COMPLETELY HEALTHY WAS THE HIGHEST SCORING OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL!

[Leroy Lizard]

But... but... KW had some good players on that team. It only counts if you set an NCAA record with bad players.

[Crucifax Autumn]

That Paul Reubens guy at SW Michigan Tech is pretty good too.

[Collier11]

OU fans are rarely pleased and I get that, when you are as good as OU has been throughout time your expectations are offen unrealistic but there is a point where it just comes off as rediculous and uneducated

[Leroy Lizard]

That Paul Reubens guy at SW Michigan Tech is pretty good too.

Just keep him out of dark theaters.

[OU_Sooners75]

Good defensive play will make any playcalling look bad. (And how odd that these playcalling problems appear in big games against real good opponents.)

We're playing Bonehead State and call a reverse. Every defender gets totally suckered and Broyles runs for 80 yards and a score. Brilliant playcalling!

We're playing Bonecrusher Univesity and call a reverse. Being well trained, the defensive end doesn't fall for it and decapitates Broyles 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Terrible playcalling!


Not exactly what I am talking about. But thanks for trying.

If you are pushing the defense around...instead of throwing the ball inside the 10 yard line 3 plays, why not try running it? Terrible play calling.

If you cannot run the ball to save your life, yet you continue to do it. The passing game is netting positive results, and you abandon it for only 12 passes all game long. Terrible play calling.

These are the type of games I am talking about.

[OU_Sooners75]

But if his offense sets a scoring record that hasn't been touched in over seventy years... oh, never mind.


Stoops is the one that wanted more plays with the talent he had on the field...knowing full well that the defense was not going to be anything close to what he has had at OU.

We run what we have up to that point in 2008, we lose more than 2 games that year thanks to our defense.

[OU_Sooners75]

KEVIN WILSONS OFFENSE LAST YR WHEN COMPLETELY HEALTHY WAS THE HIGHEST SCORING OFFENSE IN THE HISTORY OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL!

Our offense was the highest scoring offense in the history of college football last year when healthy?

News to me.

Maybe 2008, but our offense in 2009 was nowhere near what it was then.

And I would not entirely give all credit to Wilson in 2008 either.

We had play makers at WRs. We had the nations best TE. We had the nations second best OL. We had the Heisman trophy winner. We had 2 1000 yard rushers. And we averaged 80+ plays on offense a game.

OUr offense was bound to succeed and be potent in 2008 even if we had Chuck Long calling the plays.

[Collier11]

Our offense was the highest scoring offense in the history of college football last year when healthy?

News to me.

Really 75? Obviously I was referring to 08 as last yr.

Maybe 2008, but our offense in 2009 was nowhere near what it was then.

And I would not entirely give all credit to Wilson in 2008 either.

No one is giving all of the credit to Wilson but he was the Off coord during that record breaking season.

We had play makers at WRs. We had the nations best TE. We had the nations second best OL. We had the Heisman trophy winner. We had 2 1000 yard rushers. And we averaged 80+ plays on offense a game.

Your point? I dont think there has ever been a good offense or defense that wasnt led by good players...there isnt even really a point of making that statement you just made

[Leroy Lizard]

If you are pushing the defense around...instead of throwing the ball inside the 10 yard line 3 plays, why not try running it? Terrible play calling.

"Waaaah, everyone was expecting the run! Why didn't he throw the ball? You have to keep the defense guessing!!!"


If you cannot run the ball to save your life, yet you continue to do it. The passing game is netting positive results, and you abandon it for only 12 passes all game long. Terrible play calling.

"Waaaah!! Why didn't we establish the run? Why did we give up on the run so soon? You have to be able to rush the ball to win! Waaaaahh!!"

The only way to win as an OC is to have the team succeed on every play.


And I would not entirely give all credit to Wilson in 2008 either.

Oh, there's a real shock! I would be surprised if you gave him any credit at all.

[OU_Sooners75]

Your point? I dont think there has ever been a good offense or defense that wasnt led by good players...there isnt even really a point of making that statement you just made


Hey, I actually like KW. He is a lot better than Chuck "3rd and" Long.

However, I would not miss him if he was to get a better job elsewhere.

He has stalled our offense more times than people want to think. He goes from cutting the head off an opponent in the first half to being way too conservative in the second half.

He, all to often it seems, goes from rushing the ball in the middle of the field to passing the ball in the redzone, if it has not worked all game long. Or vice versa.

I have never been an OC. So I am not saying I can do a better job than him. I am just stating what I have seen that disgusts me.

I mean, you can slobber all over his **** if you want thanks to a record breaking season. However, if he was all that, he would have been able to change game plans against BYU to fit Jones...instead of passing the ball 12 times with Jones, and running the ball up the middle all the time.

[Collier11]

but our offense in 2009 was nowhere near what it was then.
.

Lets see

1) We lost what, 4 Off Lineman to injury
2) Our Heisman winning QB
3) Our Stud TE
4) Murray missed a cpl of games
5) Wilson cant make the WRs catch wide open passes which was an issue all yr
6) Wilson cant help if there are missed blocking assignments


Works both ways, the same things you are taking credit away from Wilson for in 08 you have to give him the benefit of doubt for in 09

[OU_Sooners75]

"Waaaah, everyone was expecting the run! Why didn't he throw the ball? You have to keep the defense guessing!!!"

So you put yourself in a bind by throwing 3 incomplete passes in a row. great way of keeping them guessing.

"Waaaah!! Why didn't we establish the run? Why did we give up on the run so soon? You have to be able to rush the ball to win! Waaaaahh!!"

You sound like a freaking idiot (why am I not surprised). If you can't run the ball, then use the pass. And you use it a lot more than 12 times.

The only way to win as an OC is to have the team succeed on every play.

Not every play will succeed. However, when the a drive seems promising only to stall thanks to play calling. Then you can start where the play call comes from, the Offensive Coordinator.


Oh, there's a real shock! I would be surprised if you gave him any credit at all.

And if you were not too full of yourself, you may actually learn how to read more than just bits and pieces of a conversation.

[Collier11]

I mean, you can slobber all over his **** if you want thanks to a record breaking season. However, if he was all that, he would have been able to change game plans against BYU to fit Jones...instead of passing the ball 12 times with Jones, and running the ball up the middle all the time.

I dont slobber all over him in the least, all I am saying is give him some credit as he has done a really good job.

As far as BYU goes, come on 75, you played football. You and I both know that with the team morale zapped and Jones not quite sure what to do at times that Stoops likely told KW to keep it conservative. Despite all of that, if we dont have a dropped pass and two penalties on the last drive we kick about a 30 yarder to win the game, if Stoops pays attention to the play clock and doesnt get a delay of game at the 1 we likely score a TD and win.

[OU_Sooners75]

Lets see

1) We lost what, 4 Off Lineman to injury
2) Our Heisman winning QB
3) Our Stud TE
4) Murray missed a cpl of games
5) Wilson cant make the WRs catch wide open passes which was an issue all yr
6) Wilson cant help if there are missed blocking assignments


Works both ways, the same things you are taking credit away from Wilson for in 08 you have to give him the benefit of doubt for in 09


We were injured. But are you telling me that our second team is jsut that bad? Are they that unprepared that they cannot step in when needed?

Murray has missed a couple of games every year he has played.

You are correct, Wilson cannot help the mistakes by the players. However, he can help his play calling and scheme a game plan around what he has to deal with.

[Collier11]

I disagree with this statement you just made

"If you can't run the ball, then use the pass. And you use it a lot more than 12 times."

Our O-line just got our Heisman QB killed, it was a close game all the way through, Stoops obviously didnt have confidence in the Oline and we couldnt afford to lose another QB, without actually being in the huddle I would be pretty confident in saying that Stoops told KW to run the clock and protect Landry

[JLEW1818]

I dont slobber all over him in the least, all I am saying is give him some credit as he has done a really good job.

As far as BYU goes, come on 75, you played football. You and I both know that with the team morale zapped and Jones not quite sure what to do at times that Stoops likely told KW to keep it conservative. Despite all of that, if we dont have a dropped pass and two penalties on the last drive we kick about a 30 yarder to win the game, if Stoops pays attention to the play clock and doesnt get a delay of game at the 1 we likely score a TD and win.

:rolleyes: maybe...

:D :D

u were sitting about 30 fee away from me hahaha. i ran up to the top of the section to watch it

[JLEW1818]

yah Gilbert should have stepped up and Beat Alabama this year

seriously ?

[Collier11]

If you remember we had 2 false starts I believe and a dropped pass on 3rd down, if those things dont happen it is a make-able FG, even for OU :eek:

[OU_Sooners75]

I dont slobber all over him in the least, all I am saying is give him some credit as he has done a really good job.

As far as BYU goes, come on 75, you played football. You and I both know that with the team morale zapped and Jones not quite sure what to do at times that Stoops likely told KW to keep it conservative. Despite all of that, if we dont have a dropped pass and two penalties on the last drive we kick about a 30 yarder to win the game, if Stoops pays attention to the play clock and doesnt get a delay of game at the 1 we likely score a TD and win.


I will give credit to KW when he proves that he can have his offense prepared for the unthinkable.

Losing your QB sucks, expecially the leader Bradford was. However, as a player they know it is possible on any play. The OL and the rest of the offense has a job to do. If they cannot do it because one player got hurt, then it falls on the coaching staff to make the appropiated changes.

If that is personnel or game plans, it is up to the coaches.

And as I have stated before. I think he is a good OC. But he his play calling sometimes leaves something to be desired.

[JLEW1818]

I disagree with this statement you just made

"If you can't run the ball, then use the pass. And you use it a lot more than 12 times."

Our O-line just got our Heisman QB killed, it was a close game all the way through, Stoops obviously didnt have confidence in the Oline and we couldnt afford to lose another QB, without actually being in the huddle I would be pretty confident in saying that Stoops told KW to run the clock and protect Landry

yep, BYU was the smarter football team that day, fact.

[Leroy Lizard]

However, if he was all that, he would have been able to change game plans against BYU to fit Jones...instead of passing the ball 12 times with Jones, and running the ball up the middle all the time.

Those were probably the plays that they had practiced all week. When Holieway took over for Aikman in 1985, he ran the freakin' triple option like they had practiced a million times.

If you want to see what happens to an offense that loses its starting QB, check out OU in 1977 against Ohio State.

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01qIrdfWlAs

OU played with Landry against BYU a helluva lot better than OU did in 1977 when Blevins and Jameson took over.

(BTW, the block by Overstreet at the 1:50 mark is absolutely 100% freakin' outrageous.)

[Collier11]

How many Freshman QBs are going to come in after your stud just went down, especially against a good team and play well?

[OU_Sooners75]

I disagree with this statement you just made

"If you can't run the ball, then use the pass. And you use it a lot more than 12 times."

Our O-line just got our Heisman QB killed, it was a close game all the way through, Stoops obviously didnt have confidence in the Oline and we couldnt afford to lose another QB, without actually being in the huddle I would be pretty confident in saying that Stoops told KW to run the clock and protect Landry

Go back and look at that play again.

They rushed one more guy than we had blocking on that play. Someone was going to nail Bradford on that play regardless. It sucks, but it was a well time blitz on BYU's part moreso than the OLine missing a block.

And if memory serves correctly, it was not the same time that BYU called that blitz...however, our offense did not make an appropriate change or audible.

But that type of play is easy to question.

However, what is easier is having a guy that passes for more than 50% on 12 passes. And that is all you give the guy the opportunity to do.

Whose fault is it that he was not ready to play against BYU? Landry's or Wilson's?

[Collier11]

Id say that regardless of what any coach would say, most freshman backups wouldnt be ready. We had the right blocking scheme on that play, our guy (cant remember who it was) blocked the wrong guy

[JLEW1818]

I'm watching Rudy right now!

[Leroy Lizard]

So you put yourself in a bind by throwing 3 incomplete passes in a row. great way of keeping them guessing.

Pure hindsight. If the play fails, well... it was a bad playcall.


You sound like a freaking idiot (why am I not surprised). If you can't run the ball, then use the pass.

Okay, are you willing to come in here and fight off all the posters bitching about passing too much?

When you lose, whatever plays were called were obviously the wrong ones. When you're dealing with OC bashers, there is no logic other than "the OC is to blame if the team loses."

If you pass, you should have ran. If you run, you should have passed. It's the same old bitching we have heard since Leach. And it takes place on every message board.


Not every play will succeed. However, when the a drive seems promising only to stall thanks to play calling.

The drive stalled because the plays didn't work. But OC bashers will then say that it was because the wrong plays were called. Because they have zero ability to understand how complex this game really is. To them, an offensive coordinator's job is about as sophisticated as playing "Battleship."


Then you can start where the play call comes from, the Offensive Coordinator.

And end there, because it is always the OC's fault.

[OU_Sooners75]

Id say that regardless of what any coach would say, most freshman backups wouldnt be ready. We had the right blocking scheme on that play, our guy (cant remember who it was) blocked the wrong guy


And I suppose you know this as fact, right?

The blind side tackle (williams) took on the end. It was a safety or LB that got to Bradford.

Obviously either Williams missed the block, the BYU defense brought one too many guys (3 vs. 2) than we had blocking on that side, or Williams was thinking the guard would pick him up.

I played both strong and weak side (we were not dedicated left or right) tackle. Weakside was usually the blindside of the QB in the system I played.

With that stated, Williams did the thing most OL coaches teach you as a tackle. Take on the outside threat. Allow the inside guys (Guards and Center) to take the inside threats.

Williams (granted I do not know if he was assigned this) IMO blocked the right guy, thinking the Guard would take the blitzing player.

[JLEW1818]

lol, Leroy. how old are you, I've always been curious?

not in a bad way.. just seriously curious

[OU_Sooners75]

Pure hindsight. If the play fails, well... it was a bad playcall.

Okay, you say keep them guessing...but then you say to the fact that three straight passes failed is not bad play calling, it is just hindsight and seemed like a good idea and way to keep the defense guessing?

Okay, are you willing to come in here and fight off all the posters bitching about passing too much?

When you lose, whatever plays were called were obviously the wrong ones. When you're dealing with OC bashers, there is no logic other than "the OC is to blame if the team loses."

I have never stated that KW is the reason for any of our loses. If you think in fact that is what I have stated, please quote me on that, since you love picking out bits and pieces of quotes.

If you pass, you should have ran. If you run, you should have passed. It's the same old bitching we have heard since Leach. And it takes place on every message board.

It is called knowing what is working and using it. Not abandoning it.

The drive stalled because the plays didn't work. But OC bashers will then say that it was because the wrong plays were called. Because they have zero ability to understand how complex this game really is. To them, an offensive coordinator's job is about as sophisticated as playing "Battleship."



And end there, because it is always the OC's fault.

I have never blamed any of our loses on the OC. I have however said some of his play calling in big games have left something to be desired.

But thanks for assuming that that is the same as saying we lost because of the OC.

[Leroy Lizard]

Losing your QB sucks, expecially the leader Bradford was. However, as a player they know it is possible on any play. The OL and the rest of the offense has a job to do. If they cannot do it because one player got hurt, then it falls on the coaching staff to make the appropiated changes.

We're up 20-0 against Ohio State and Lott goes down. He is replaced by a freshman (Jameson). We end up having to kick a field goal as time expires to win.

We lose Aikman against Miami and (freshman) Holieway comes in. We lose.

Texas loses its starting QB against Bama, and loses.

When you lose your starting QB and the replacement is a freshman, you are going to lose more often than naught.

Gee, why is that?

[Collier11]

And I suppose you know this as fact, right?

The blind side tackle (williams) took on the end. It was a safety or LB that got to Bradford.

Obviously either Williams missed the block, the BYU defense brought one too many guys (3 vs. 2) than we had blocking on that side, or Williams was thinking the guard would pick him up.

I played both strong and weak side (we were not dedicated left or right) tackle. Weakside was usually the blindside of the QB in the system I played.

With that stated, Williams did the thing most OL coaches teach you as a tackle. Take on the outside threat. Allow the inside guys (Guards and Center) to take the inside threats.

Williams (granted I do not know if he was assigned this) IMO blocked the right guy, thinking the Guard would take the blitzing player.


None of us know anything about any of this 100%, again irrelevant. A play you call a horrible play might have been a busted assignment.

Go back and watch the play again, there are two Olineman not blocking anyone, it is obvious someone busted

[Leroy Lizard]

lol, Leroy. how old are you, I've always been curious?

A little over 50.

[JLEW1818]

C. Brandon really needs a total 180 for us to have a chance in 2010

[Collier11]

"Okay, you say keep them guessing...but then you say to the fact that three straight passes failed is not bad play calling, it is just hindsight and seemed like a good idea and way to keep the defense guessing?"

C'mon 75, you know it isnt as black and white as that. Hell, you have only 2 choices by your statement, run or pass. If that is the case how the hell do you ever fool anyone? Those 3 passes may have been really good plays that always work, their may have been a missed assignment, they may have been bad calls, we really dont know so I dont think you can just blanketly state that they were bad calls just because they were passes

[Collier11]

A little over 50.

I told Jlew you were between 45-55

[OU_Sooners75]

None of us know anything about any of this 100%, again irrelevant. A play you call a horrible play might have been a busted assignment.

Go back and watch the play again, there are two Olineman not blocking anyone, it is obvious someone busted


And it was not Williams that busted an assignment that you tried to point out.

He took on the right guy.

The other player flat out missed a block.

And this was not due to Bradford being hurt and players losing their morale, this happened on the same play that he got hurt.

That play was not Wilson's fault..and I never claimed it was.

Not sure how this went from talking about the BYU game plan with Jones to the play Bradford got hurt....but thanks for the spin nonetheless.

[OU_Sooners75]

"Okay, you say keep them guessing...but then you say to the fact that three straight passes failed is not bad play calling, it is just hindsight and seemed like a good idea and way to keep the defense guessing?"

C'mon 75, you know it isnt as black and white as that. Hell, you have only 2 choices by your statement, run or pass. If that is the case how the hell do you ever fool anyone? Those 3 passes may have been really good plays that always work, their may have been a missed assignment, they may have been bad calls, we really dont know so I dont think you can just blanketly state that they were bad calls just because they were passes


Sure it is.

I agree with Liztard. We need to keep them guessing on defense. But putting yourself in obvious throwing situations is not keeping them guessing.

[Collier11]

And it was not Williams that busted an assignment that you tried to point out.

He took on the right guy.

The other player flat out missed a block.

And this was not due to Bradford being hurt and players losing their morale, this happened on the same play that he got hurt.

That play was not Wilson's fault..and I never claimed it was.

Not sure how this went from talking about the BYU game plan with Jones to the play Bradford got hurt....but thanks for the spin nonetheless.

I never said it was Williams? All I said was that it was a busted assignment. If you think this conversation is spin then you dont understand what "spin" means.

We were talking about Bradford getting hurt and Jones not being ready, I explained why I thought we didnt throw more, because Stoops and KW didnt trust the Oline, I used that play as an example

[Leroy Lizard]

Okay, you say keep them guessing...but then you say to the fact that three straight passes failed is not bad play calling, it is just hindsight and seemed like a good idea and way to keep the defense guessing?

You're not in the booth. You don't see what KW sees. YOu were not in practice, so you don't know what works and what doesn't.

I'm not sure why KW called three straight passes because I have never asked him. But I am sure he called them for a reason. Why not find out the reason before second guessing him?


I have never stated that KW is the reason for any of our loses. If you think in fact that is what I have stated, please quote me on that, since you love picking out bits and pieces of quotes.

Okay, I'll give you that.


It is called knowing what is working and using it. Not abandoning it.

Again, you don't know what Wilson sees. He may very well have seen a change in the defense that made future success unlikely. I haven't asked him. Until I do, I will figure that a man of his knowledge and experience had a good reason for doing what he did.


I have never stated that KW is the reason for any of our loses. If you think in fact that is what I have stated, please quote me on that, since you love picking out bits and pieces of quotes.

Okay, so you are saying that KW is not the reason we lost any of our games. THEN WHY ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT HIM?

[OU_Sooners75]

Okay collier...When dropping back to pass, there are more things that can go wrong on the play than that can go right.

You can catch the ball (which is good).
You can tuck and run and pick up positive yards (good).
You can throw it away (good in that you do not get sacked or lose yards...but you gain nothing and lose that play).
You can get sacked (just totally bad, lose yards and that play)
You can throw an incomplete (see throw it away)
You can get hit and fumble (terrible you lose the ball giving the defense opportunity to gain control of it)
You can throw a INT (this sucks and is the worst IMHO).

So if you run the ball successfully (ala chuck long vs. LSU) and get inside the 10, and throw the ball 3 to 4 straight times and not score...how exactly is that NOT bad play calling?

Every play there will be misplays, misblocks...and you can usually say, well, that is not on the coaches...that was entirely on the players.

However, you can start to second guess the play calling when you absolutely abandon what is working for you.

[Collier11]

So why are you talking about The LSU game when we are talking about KW?

So why are you talking about how many bad things can happen during a pass play while you are saying we should have passed more than 12 times, you arent consistent with this T.

[Leroy Lizard]

C'mon 75, you know it isnt as black and white as that. Hell, you have only 2 choices by your statement, run or pass. If that is the case how the hell do you ever fool anyone?

Exactly.

You pass on first down. Now what?

OC Bashers will say that you should run on the next down. But if you do, you are doing what the defense expects. So you pass the ball.

Now, what do you do? OC Bashers will now say that passing the ball three straight times is pure crazy. But if you run the ball, you again are doing what the defense expects.

You just cannot win with the OC Bashers.

[Leroy Lizard]

So if you run the ball successfully (ala chuck long vs. LSU) and get inside the 10, and throw the ball 3 to 4 straight times and not score...how exactly is that NOT bad play calling?

But if you run the ball, isn't that what the defense is expecting? OC Bashers claim that the key to winning is to keep the defense off balance. You don't want to be predictable.

[OU_Sooners75]

You're not in the booth. You don't see what KW sees. YOu were not in practice, so you don't know what works and what doesn't.

I'm not sure why KW called three straight passes because I have never asked him. But I am sure he called them for a reason. Why not find out the reason before second guessing him?



Okay, I'll give you that.



Again, you don't know what Wilson sees. He may very well have seen a change in the defense that made future success unlikely. I haven't asked him. Until I do, I will figure that a man of his knowledge and experience had a good reason for doing what he did.



Okay, so you are saying that KW is not the reason we lost any of our games. THEN WHY ARE YOU BITCHING ABOUT HIM?


You're right I am not in the booth. I do get the luxury of sitting at home and watching the play at angles that Wilson does not get during the game.

I help pay his salary by going to some of the games, buying Sooner apparel and stuff like that. And I can tell you right now, I can see it at the games too and question the play calling in certain situations, just like I am now.

However, it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that abandoning what got you there in the first place is not a good strategy.

I am all for keeping the defense on their heels and second guessing...but you just do not abandon what is working for you.

There are multiple run sets and pass sets in our offense. You cannot tell me that KW could call a run play in 3 or 4 plays to keep the defense guessing in the scenario I gave?

Okay...

[OU_Sooners75]

Exactly.

You pass on first down. Now what?

OC Bashers will say that you should run on the next down. But if you do, you are doing what the defense expects. So you pass the ball.

Now, what do you do? OC Bashers will now say that passing the ball three straight times is pure crazy. But if you run the ball, you again are doing what the defense expects.

You just cannot win with the OC Bashers.

Dont be stupid. This is not about passing on first down. This is about abandoning completely what works.

I have more praise for KW than what is showing here. However, I am entitled to show my displeasure with some of his past blunders.

[OU_Sooners75]

But if you run the ball, isn't that what the defense is expecting? OC Bashers claim that the key to winning is to keep the defense off balance. You don't want to be predictable.


Inside the 10, the defense has such an advantage it is actually unreal. The field is so shorten that they can guard the pass by doing a 3 or 4 man zone and still have 7-8 guys to stop the rush or to break off into zone after seeing it is a pass play.

That is why if you are going to pass that far into the redzone, it is good to use play actions, and waggles instead of the main passing arsenal.

[OU_Sooners75]

So why are you talking about The LSU game when we are talking about KW?

So why are you talking about how many bad things can happen during a pass play while you are saying we should have passed more than 12 times, you arent consistent with this T.


Because Kevin Wilson did about the same thing against Florida.

Stop acting like a lib.

You know exactly why I stated what I did, I think I made it evident before typing that mess.

[Leroy Lizard]

You're right I am not in the booth. I do get the luxury of sitting at home and watching the play at angles that Wilson does not get during the game.

Sure, REPLAYS. KW doesn't get that luxury. He has to call the play in a very short time based on what he sees in front of him.

And by sitting up real high, he as a birds-eye view of the entire field. You don't have that on your television.


I help pay his salary by going to some of the games, buying Sooner apparel and stuff like that. And I can tell you right now, I can see it at the games too and question the play calling in certain situations, just like I am now.

We're not going to throw you in jail for questioning KW.


However, it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that abandoning what got you there in the first place is not a good strategy.

So according to you, the right play to call could have been figured out by any idiot. Therefore, we have a choice:

1. KW doesn't know even the basics of how to call a play at the collegiate level or

2. There is more to playcalling than you think.

[Collier11]

Because Kevin Wilson did about the same thing against Florida.

Stop acting like a lib.

You know exactly why I stated what I did, I think I made it evident before typing that mess.

Actually you said to stick with what is working earlier, with Chris Brown we had just ran down their throats to get inside the 5yd line so KW stuck with what is working. That is the point, you can either stick with what is working or you can try to trick them, if you fail it is going to look like the wrong choice.

In fact, if you go back and watch the 4th down play where CB gets stuffed, one of our Olinemen completely whiff on a block or he walks in the endzone so in that essence it was the right call

[OU_Sooners75]

Sure, REPLAYS. KW doesn't get that luxury. He has to call the play in a very short time based on what he sees in front of him.

And by sitting up real high, he as a birds-eye view of the entire field. You don't have that on your television.

However, I do when I go to the games.


We're not going to throw you in jail for questioning KW.



So according to you, the right play to call could have been figured out by any idiot. Therefore, we have a choice:

1. KW doesn't know even the basics of how to call a play at the collegiate level or

2. There is more to playcalling than you think.

And again, you are simplifying what I am saying.

Instead of going for 3 or 4 straight pass plays, why not try running it at least once, maybe twice?

Like you said, you want to keep them guessing, what better way in doing so than mixing up the types of plays you call?

[OU_Sooners75]

Actually you said to stick with what is working earlier, with Chris Brown we had just ran down their throats to get inside the 5yd line so KW stuck with what is working. That is the point, you can either stick with what is working or you can try to trick them, if you fail it is going to look like the wrong choice.

In fact, if you go back and watch the 4th down play where CB gets stuffed, one of our Olinemen completely whiff on a block or he walks in the endzone so in that essence it was the right call


And yet, the next time down, we rush fairly well to help us get inside the 10. Then we start throwing the ball.

Execution is one thing, and it seems like you are unable to know I am agreeing with you on the fact that not all is KWs fault.

However, he is the one calling the plays. And therefore, when the plays seem to be bad, it will be his fault.

99% of us here may love OU sports. However, not all of us will just say, "well, it was a good play call because Wilson called it. It was just poorly executed."

Sometimes the poor execution during a play can occur thanks to the play called.

[Leroy Lizard]

And again, you are simplifying what I am saying.

Here is what you said:


However, it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that abandoning what got you there in the first place is not a good strategy.

When someone says, "It does not take a rocket scientist..." it is pretty clear what that means. "If any idiot could have seen what needed to be called, and KW didn't call it, then KW must be pretty ignorant about playcalling."

[OU_Sooners75]

Here is what you said:



When someone says, "It does not take a rocket scientist..." it is pretty clear what that means. "If any idiot could have seen what needed to be called, and KW didn't call it, then KW must be pretty ignorant about playcalling."


Obviously you are the exception to the rule.

Because you are seem to be too stupid to grasp logical conversations. Here, lets make things up on the way.

Good day to you lizard.

[Collier11]

"However, I do when I go to the games." yea sure, we all do if we are at the game. You have no clue what the gameplan is, what the weak spots for the other team are, etc...

[Collier11]

And yet, the next time down, we rush fairly well to help us get inside the 10. Then we start throwing the ball.

Execution is one thing, and it seems like you are unable to know I am agreeing with you on the fact that not all is KWs fault.

However, he is the one calling the plays. And therefore, when the plays seem to be bad, it will be his fault.

99% of us here may love OU sports. However, not all of us will just say, "well, it was a good play call because Wilson called it. It was just poorly executed."

Sometimes the poor execution during a play can occur thanks to the play called.

Im not now nor have I said you blamed it all on KW, im just referencing one of your points and how that played out in the natl title game. Guess what, we get down inside the 5, miss a block and get stuffed.

We then get down inside the 10, have a pass hit our receiver in the hands and get deflected for an int. If we properly execute we go to HT up 17-7 or 21-7 and likely win

[OU_Sooners75]

"However, I do when I go to the games." yea sure, we all do if we are at the game. You have no clue what the gameplan is, what the weak spots for the other team are, etc...

You're correct. However, I know bad schema or bad play calling when I see it.

You are acting like your **** doesn't stink right now, collier so I will ask it.

Have you ever question a play called during any game?

Judging by this thread...I would assume your answer is no.

[OU_Sooners75]

Im not now nor have I said you blamed it all on KW, im just referencing one of your points and how that played out in the natl title game. Guess what, we get down inside the 5, miss a block and get stuffed.

We then get down inside the 10, have a pass hit our receiver in the hands and get deflected for an int. If we properly execute we go to HT up 17-7 or 21-7 and likely win


And like I stated. Sometimes it is the play called that results in bad execution or bad luck.

We are in agreement that poor execution can make the play look like a bad call...but we seem to be in disagreement that not all plays called are good ones.

[Collier11]

Of course I have, that doesnt mean I was right and it doesnt mean I was wrong. Im not saying you are right and im not saying you are wrong, all im saying is that we dont know all the circumstances.

Case in point...Sugar Bowl, everyone b*tches how Long called running plays all the way down the field and we were gashing them, they were exhausted, and we abandoned the run and therefore didnt get a shot at OT.
I was one of the ones that thought it was dumb to abandon the run just out of a logical point of view. Having said that, if you and I or anyone go back and watch the last two plays of that drive, we had a pass to a fairly open Clayton in the back of the endzone that was just barely tipped at the line. If that ball isnt tipped he catches it, even with it being tipped he nearly caught it. The next play JW overthrows a wide open Kejuan by about 6 inches. The play worked, Kejuan was wide open, JW just missed the throw.

See my point now?

[Collier11]

And like I stated. Sometimes it is the play called that results in bad execution or bad luck.

We are in agreement that poor execution can make the play look like a bad call...but we seem to be in disagreement that not all plays called are good ones.

I dont think every play is a good playcall, im just saying we dont know why it was called or the circumstances in which it failed, therefore it is hard for any of us to pinpoint 1 or 2 plays and say they were definitely bad calls

[OU_Sooners75]

I dont think every play is a good playcall, im just saying we dont know why it was called or the circumstances in which it failed, therefore it is hard for any of us to pinpoint 1 or 2 plays and say they were definitely bad calls


I know why it was called. Because the coach calling it thinks it will work.

:pop:

[JLEW1818]

uhhh LSU>???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fko6Uo9-aDQ&feature=related

[Collier11]

I know why it was called. Because the coach calling it thinks it will work.

:pop:

now you are just being an a**hole! :D

[OU_Sooners75]

now you are just being an a**hole! :D


That is my middle name.

[Leroy Lizard]

Have you ever question a play called during any game?

I have.

All the time.

I cannot count the number of times that I have slammed my hand down and said, "What the Hell did he call that for?!?!"

But after the game, I realize that my heat-of-the-moment, knee-jerk reactions were off base. Once I calm down, I realize that there must have been a good reason for calling what was run and that I just overreacted. Fans do that.

And I think that is the difference between you and me.

[Crucifax Autumn]

My knee-jerk reactions are always messages from God and always correct.

[OU_Sooners75]

I have.

All the time.

I cannot count the number of times that I have slammed my hand down and said, "What the Hell did he call that for?!?!"

But after the game, I realize that my heat-of-the-moment, knee-jerk reactions were off base. Once I calm down, I realize that there must have been a good reason for calling what was run and that I just overreacted. Fans do that.

And I think that is the difference between you and me.


See, you are trying to act like you know me when you do not.

KW is a heck of a coach. Are there better OCs out there? Yeah. But he is not the worst either.

There are only a couple of situations that I can think of that I disagree with KWs play calling.

And those situations leave things to be desired.

[Collier11]

Are there better OCs out there? Yeah. But he is not the worst either.



see, this is the disagreement I get into with Curly all the time. I cant think of 5 Off coordinators in the country who are better than KW.

Just off the top of my head Cincys was pretty good, obviously Florida even though they struggled at times this yr,oregons Off coord, but who else really? Im not saying KW is the best but I dont think there are a lot that are better

[OU_Sooners75]

see, this is the disagreement I get into with Curly all the time. I cant think of 5 Off coordinators in the country who are better than KW.

Just off the top of my head Cincys was pretty good, obviously Florida even though they struggled at times this yr,oregons Off coord, but who else really? Im not saying KW is the best but I dont think there are a lot that are better


I am not just talking d-1A either. I am talking there are better in the NFL, D-1A. Nor do they have to be current coaches of a team, but available.

Here is a List.
1. Norm Chow
2. Charlie Weis
3. Mike Leach
4. Mark Mangino
5. Brian Harsin (Boise State)

I would put Wilson around 6th.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Our offense was better than Leach's last year. And better than Kansas all decade. Weis is a fat retard.

[OU_Sooners75]

Our offense was better than Leach's last year. And better than Kansas all decade. Weis is a fat retard.


LOL. Mangino was and is a helluva OC.

Wies was a heck of an OC at the NFL ranks...will be again soon.

Leach's offense may have been down last year...but he is one heck of a coordinator.

[Collier11]

I am not just talking d-1A either. I am talking there are better in the NFL, D-1A. Nor do they have to be current coaches of a team, but available.

Here is a List.
1. Norm Chow- his offense was in the bottom 20 in the nation this yr
2. Charlie Weis
3. Mike Leach
4. Mark Mangino - his offenses didnt put up near the numbers as KWs
5. Brian Harsin (Boise State)

I would put Wilson around 6th.

Like I said, he may not be #1 but there arent 5 better

[Crucifax Autumn]

LOL. Mangino was and is a helluva OC.

Wies was a heck of an OC at the NFL ranks...will be again soon.

Leach's offense may have been down last year...but he is one heck of a coordinator.

NFL and college are 2 different games, so Weis can suck it and run back to the prima donna league.

Leach and Mangino are great, but their overall skills don't produce results any better than Wilson's. I'd actually call all 3 a tie, with maybe a really slight edge early on to Mangino thanks to 2000.

[OU_Sooners75]

Like I said, he may not be #1 but there arent 5 better


Okay, Chow has one bad year as an OC and all of a sudden he sucks?

Good call.

How many National Championships did Mangino win while being the OU OC? How many has KW won?

[OU_Sooners75]

NFL and college are 2 different games, so Weis can suck it and run back to the prima donna league.

Leach and Mangino are great, but their overall skills don't produce results any better than Wilson's. I'd actually call all 3 a tie, with maybe a really slight edge early on to Mangino thanks to 2000.


No, Mangino just won a NATIONAL Championship as the OC at OU. And I may as add, with lesser talent in the eyes of many people.
Leach completely set the foundation for the current offense at OU.

But they are lesser than KW?

LMFAO!!

[Leroy Lizard]

No, Mangino just won a NATIONAL Championship as the OC at OU.

I thought having Mike Stoops as DC had a lot do with it. I didn't realize that whether a team won a national title was solely on the offensive coordinator's plate.

A lot of Patriot fans thought that Charlie Weis had little to do with their success and that Weis was nothing more than Bellichek's lackey. I'm not sure, but it is not a given that Weis' skills were highly valued at the NFL level.

[OU_Sooners75]

I thought having Mike Stoops as DC had a lot do with it. I didn't realize that whether a team won a national title was solely on the offensive coordinator's plate.

A lot of Patriot fans thought that Charlie Weis had little to do with their success and that Weis was nothing more than Bellichek's lackey. I'm not sure, but it is not a given that Weis' skills were highly valued at the NFL level.


WOW...you off your meds today?

[Leroy Lizard]

No, Mangino just won a NATIONAL Championship as the OC at OU. And I may as add, with lesser talent in the eyes of many people.
Leach completely set the foundation for the current offense at OU.

But they are lesser than KW?

Well, KW's offense set the modern-day NCAA record for scoring. So yeah, he ranks up there with those guys, especially given the fact that this is a team sport and that defense had a lot to do with Stoops' success under Mangino.

The goal of an OC is for his offense to score. And KW's offense scored more points than any team in the last 70+ years of college football. He must be pretty good.

[Leroy Lizard]

WOW...you off your meds today?

Okay, so Mike Stoops didn't have anything to do with our national title. Happy now?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I said very clearly that they were basically equal with an edge going to Mangino due to 2000. Leach laid a foundation that has been tweaked A LOT to include a running game and avoid 1 dimensional offense. IF leach was here now 80% of our plays would be passing and of the 20% rushing, 95% of that would be draw plays and we'd still think play action is something other teams do, just like now. I fuggin' love Leach's offense, but it's not an offense that has a very good chance of producing an undefeated season, which for some weird reason I think should be a goal. Wilson hasn't pulled that off either, but I think he's more likely to pull it off.

The one thing ANY of these guys could do at OU to make our current system better is to give the QB the option to check out of plays. I mean, give him some limitations, but in certain situations we need to check out of a play a LOT faster than what the meercat allows. Leach and Mangino HAVE to figure out how to score in the red zone more efficiently and Wilson needs to figure out how to fool the opposing D better in that situation in the big games. And hell, as for the pirate, he got his first "fair and square" win against us THIS season and that was mainly thanks to our entire team seemingly spending the game on a friggin' Carnival Cruise of the mind!

If there's someone significantly better out there than Wilson...like really better...It's some nobody with a brand new system no one has seen before... The next wishbone or spread that not DC is prepared for and that will be ahead of the game for a couple of years.

[Collier11]

Okay, Chow has one bad year as an OC and all of a sudden he sucks?

Good call.

How many National Championships did Mangino win while being the OU OC? How many has KW won?

Norm Chows last two years at Ucla and his previous time at the Tennessee Titans he sucked. In all fairness Manginos offense scored 13 pts in the natl title game, dont act like we won that natl title in 00' because of offense. He was really good, I dont think his off was better than KWs though

[Crucifax Autumn]

WOW...you off your meds today?

I've been off MY meds for quite some time AND I'm drinking. If I was on my meds I'd be even worse! Xanax really gets the mouth flapping. :D

[OU_Sooners75]

Norm Chows last two years at Ucla and his previous time at the Tennessee Titans he sucked. In all fairness Manginos offense scored 13 pts in the natl title game, dont act like we won that natl title in 00' because of offense. He was really good, I dont think his off was better than KWs though


And you are entitled to that opinion. Mine differs. Get over it.

[Collier11]

Well, KW's offense set the modern-day NCAA record for scoring. So yeah, he ranks up there with those guys, especially given the fact that this is a team sport and that defense had a lot to do with Stoops' success under Mangino.

The goal of an OC is for his offense to score. And KW's offense scored more points than any team in the last 70+ years of college football. He must be pretty good.

Exactly, if KWs 08 offense had a def anywhere close to 09 we would have likely won the natl title, unfortunately our D in 08 was average at best

[Collier11]

And you are entitled to that opinion. Mine differs. Get over it.

I have stats to back up my notion, yours is just based on your opinion, therefore you are wrong. Norm Chows offenses the last 4 or 5 years that he has coached have been horrible. The ones he had at usc were awesome most of the time, just like KW

[Leroy Lizard]

Don't forget that Mangino's offense put 12 points on OSU. We won that game on defense.

And we would have lost to A&M if it hadn't been for Torrance Marshall (a defensive player) intercepting the ball.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Norm Chows last two years at Ucla and his previous time at the Tennessee Titans he sucked. In all fairness Manginos offense scored 13 pts in the natl title game, dont act like we won that natl title in 00' because of offense. He was really good, I dont think his off was better than KWs though

Early in that season Mangino's offense was a key part of it. Later in the season it was all D and a functional offense. And Q...All season Q.

[Collier11]

Exactly Crux, its all about the team. No matter how good an off or def coord is, there will be down games. Mangino had a good offense but it wasnt near as explosive as KWs, it didnt matter though because Mangino had a better Def backing him up

[Collier11]

Just to put the facts out there

Mangino coached two offenses, they averaged 37ppg in our championship year and our D only gave up 15. IN 01 our offense avg 31ppg and our D gave up 13.

Now compare that to KW

06- 30/17
07- 42/20
08- 51/25
09- 31/15

That is an average of 38.5ppg for KW and 34ppg for Mangino while The D gave up 14 ppg when Mangino was around compared to 19ppg while Wilson has coached the offense

[OU_Sooners75]

I have stats to back up my notion, yours is just based on your opinion, therefore you are wrong. Norm Chows offenses the last 4 or 5 years that he has coached have been horrible. The ones he had at usc were awesome most of the time, just like KW


What stat is that. That he is in charge of an offense that has a talent pool rivaled by very few, or that he has 0 national championships?

granted it takes more than just Offense to win championships. but the point is, he has zero!

Is he among the nations best? yeah...hell Rivals has 3 D-1A OCs ranked ahead of KW!

[Collier11]

and, 3 of your OCs that you listed dont have Natl titles...doesnt make a diff in how good of an OC they are

[OU_Sooners75]

Exactly Crux, its all about the team. No matter how good an off or def coord is, there will be down games. Mangino had a good offense but it wasnt near as explosive as KWs, it didnt matter though because Mangino had a better Def backing him up


LMFAO

And Mangino did not have an offense filled with 4 and 5 star recruits either.

You have to take the talent into account as well.

Neither are terrible. I like both.

you all are trying to turn this into a battle between OCs that OU has had or has now.

It is not the case.

Hell, you want to say explosiveness and crap collier. remember Chuck Long's offenses? They were explosive as hell as well...and yet most Sooners cannot stand him.

[Crucifax Autumn]

QB Josh Heupel: 305/472 (64.6%) for 3,606 yards (7.64) with 20 TD vs. 15 INT (3.18). 83 carries for 167 yards (2.01) with 7 TD.
RB Quentin Griffin: 200 carries for 823 yards (4.12) with 17 TD. 51 catches for 429 yards and 0 TD.
WR Antwone Savage: 50 catches for 621 yards (12.42) and 3 TD.
WR/CB Andre Woolfolk: 42 catches for 614 yards (14.62) and 5 TD.
WR Curtis Fagan: 41 catches for 606 yards (14.78) and 7 TD.
RB Josh Norman: 34 catches for 518 yards (15.24) and 1 TD.
TE Trent Smith: 31 catches for 323 yards (10.42) and 3 TD.
K Tim Duncan: 15 FGM and 60 XPM.

Not exactly talentless guys Mangino had to work with!

[Leroy Lizard]

granted it takes more than just Offense to win championships. but the point is, he has zero!

Again, the D bailed Mangino out against OSU, A&M, and FSU.

We scored 12 against OSU. 12! So it was part of Mangino's brilliance to prevent OSU from scoring more than 7? Pretty crafty of him.

[Collier11]

you all are trying to turn this into a battle between OCs that OU has had or has now.

It is not the case.
.

Silly Rabbit! You are the one who tried to make it into a battle between OC's. I just stated after the fact that KWs offenses actually put up better numbers.

Here are your quotes

"Here is a List.
1. Norm Chow
2. Charlie Weis
3. Mike Leach
4. Mark Mangino
5. Brian Harsin (Boise State)

I would put Wilson around 6th."

"How many National Championships did Mangino win while being the OU OC? How many has KW won?"

[OU_Sooners75]

Again, the D bailed Mangino out against OSU, A&M, and FSU.

We scored 12 against OSU. 12! So it was part of Mangino's brilliance to prevent OSU from scoring more than 7? Pretty crafty of him.


LMFAO

We scored 28 offensive points against A&M...the defense gave up four bomb plays (our of six completions) that kept A&M in that game. It was not like our offense was unable to score on A&M that game.

Do me a favor when commenting on the bedlam game. try learning something. there have been a lot of close games with OSU when OU has been ranked in the top 5 in the nation. 2000 was no different.

And if memory serves correctly, Huepel was playing the last 3 or 4 games injured.

[OU_Sooners75]

BTW liztard....

2000 OU averaged 39.00 points per game.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2000&div=4&rpt=IA_teamscoroff&site=org

2009 OU averaged 31.08 points per game.
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-scoring-offense.html

Care to explain why such a great drop in production from the high and mighty, the best OC evar, Kevin Wilson's team?

[OU_Sooners75]

Liztard...I guess you are forgetting the:
63-14 win over #10 Texas.
41-31 win over #2 Kansas State.
31-14 win over #1 Nebraska
56-7 win over Baylor
Or the fact that OU scored 55, 45, 42, 34 in other games in 2000.

yeah, Mangino's offense was just lacking, big time!:rolleyes:

[Collier11]

LMFAO

We scored 31 offensive points against A&M...the defense gave up four bomb plays (our of six completions) that kept A&M in that game.

2yd run, fg, 4yd pass, 1yd run, 27yd run, you need to job your memory before you say stuff 75, you are wrong again. The defense only gave up a hair over 300yds in that game on the road. Our offense had 3 turnovers.

Do me a favor when commenting on the OU-OSU game. try learning something. there have been a lot of close games with OSU when OU has been ranked in the top 5 in the nation. 2000 was no different.





Under Mangino we scored 12 and 13 against osu. Under KW we scored 27, 49, 61, 27. Under Stoops we have never scored less than 27 against OSU except for Manginos 2 years

[Leroy Lizard]

We scored 31 offensive points against A&M...

No we didn't.


the defense gave up four bomb plays (our of six completions) that kept A&M in that game. It was not like our offense was unable to score on A&M that game.

We were going to lose that game until Marshall picked off the pass. As I said, you win by playing both sides of the ball. To attribute a national championship to the offensive coordinator is shallow reasoning.


Do me a favor when commenting on the OU-OSU game. try learning something. there have been a lot of close games with OSU when OU has been ranked in the top 5 in the nation. 2000 was no different.

And there have been some tremendous blowouts. Why didn't we blow them out?


And if memory serves correctly, Huepel was playing the last 3 or 4 games injured.

Gee, I thought the OC had to be prepared for the unthinkable. So if you lose your starting QB and a freshman has to take over, it's no excuse. After all, the OC should be prepared for such an event. But if your QB is injured, that's a free pass to stink up the joint.

So why did we only score 12? Did Mangino CALL THE WRONG PLAYS?!?!

[Collier11]

BTW liztard....

2000 OU averaged 39.00 points per game.
http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2000&div=4&rpt=IA_teamscoroff&site=org

In 2000 we scored 37 per game, not 39

2009 OU averaged 31.08 points per game.
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-scoring-offense.html

I hate to defend Leroy but are you serious? Really? I mean, really? I guess you already forgot what happened in 09?

Care to explain why such a great drop in production from the high and mighty, the best OC evar, Kevin Wilson's team?

It is pretty easy to explain

[OU_Sooners75]

Under Mangino we scored 12 and 13 against osu. Under KW we scored 27, 49, 61, 27. Under Stoops we have never scored less than 27 against OSU except for Manginos 2 years


Sweet. So the team played OSU and Mangino's offense couldnt score on them.

Vs. Texas: Mangino's O scored 63 and 14.

Hell, lets do this:

2006: OU averaged 30.29
2007: 42.29
2008: 51.14
2009: 31.08

Mangino never had an offense under 32/per game.

hmmmm....

[OU_Sooners75]

It is pretty easy to explain


Then explain away....oh wait, injuries and lost a lot of players.

Same **** happened to Mangino, yet, he never had a year as bad as Wilson while at the helm of OC for OU!

[Collier11]

Sweet. So the team played OSU and Mangino's offense couldnt score on them.

Vs. Texas: Mangino's O scored 63 and 14.

Hell, lets do this:

2006: OU averaged 30.29
2007: 42.29
2008: 51.14
2009: 31.08

Mangino never had an offense under 32/per game.

hmmmm....

Mangino never had a freshman QB, Wilson has had 2. Manginos offenses never had near the injuries that Wilson has delt with this year

[Leroy Lizard]

Care to explain why such a great drop in production from the high and mighty, the best OC evar, Kevin Wilson's team?

Loss of Heisman QB. (That alone will almost always produce losses. Ask Texas.)

Loss of Gresham. (Probably the best TE we have had under Stoops. Gone!)

Loss of almost the entire offensive line.

Add them all up, and you're going to lose production.

What happened to Mangino's team when Heupel graduated? We only scored 10 against Nebraska, and only 13 against OSU. In the Cotton Bowl, our offense was completely inept, only scoring 10 points.

Losing players does that to you.

Against WVU, Switzer said that he was worried about OU losing four starters on defense. He said you don't lose that many good players and not have it affect you. Guess what happened?

We not only lost more than four starters this past year on offense, one of them was a Heisman Trophy winner.

[Collier11]

Then explain away....oh wait, injuries and lost a lot of players.

Same **** happened to Mangino, yet, he never had a year as bad as Wilson while at the helm of OC for OU!

Same sh*t didnt happen to Mangino, not even close.

[OU_Sooners75]

Mangino never had a freshman QB, Wilson has had 2. Manginos offenses never had near the injuries that Wilson has delt with this year


2 redshirt freshman is very different than play true freshmen.

At least they know the system better.

Got another excuse for me?

[Collier11]

Not an excuse, they are fact. You dont lose your entire offensive line, your heisman qb, and your AA TE and expect to have a great offense

[Crucifax Autumn]

2 years is half the time to lay turds, so the whole argument is skewed. Same goes for the inverse, Wilson's had more chances at great numbers.

[OU_Sooners75]

Loss of Heisman QB. (That alone will almost always produce losses. Ask Texas.)

How would Texas know? They have not had a Heisman winner since Ricky Williams and he was a RB.

Loss of Gresham. (Probably the best TE we have had under Stoops. Gone!)

His loss hurt. but not nearly as bad as people want to think.

Loss of almost the entire offensive line.

So in other words, our backups just are not capable?

Add them all up, and you're going to lose production.

What happened to Mangino's team when Heupel graduated? We only scored 10 against Nebraska, and only 13 against OSU. In the Cotton Bowl, our offense was completely inept, only scoring 10 points.

Yet, OU's offense in 2001 still averaged more points per game than in 2009.

Losing players does that to you.

Against WVU, Switzer said that he was worried about OU losing four starters on defense. He said you don't lose that many good players and not have it affect you. Guess what happened?

That is going into one game. getting prepared for the season, you should already be prepared for the loss of players the season before. Nice try though, I truly admire the effort.

We not only lost more than four starters this past year on offense, one of them was a Heisman Trophy winner.

There is a reason you have back ups. If you do not have faith in them, then you do not play them and find someone that you do have faith in getting the job done.

[Crucifax Autumn]

This thread needs an enema.

[OU_Sooners75]

Not an excuse, they are fact. You dont lose your entire offensive line, your heisman qb, and your AA TE and expect to have a great offense


LOL You act as if this is the first time it has ever happened at OU.

2001 mirrored this year almost to a the T.

[OU_Sooners75]

This thread needs an enema.


No, this thread needs more BS from all of us.

[Leroy Lizard]

Same **** happened to Mangino, yet, he never had a year as bad as Wilson while at the helm of OC for OU!

No, the same **** did not happen to Mangino.

We lost Bradford during the season. Heupel graduated. There is a big difference between those two situations.

At no point did Mangino lose as many offensive linemen as KW did.

BTW, Mangino's 2001 offense averaged 32.25 points a game, while KW's 2009 offense averaged 31.08 points per game. A one point per game difference is a wash. But KW had far more injury problems on his team than Mangino.

[OU_Sooners75]

No, the same **** did not happen to Mangino.

We lost Bradford during the season. Heupel graduated. There is a big difference between those two situations.

At no point did Mangino lose as many offensive linemen as KW did.

BTW, Mangino's 2001 offense averaged 32.25 points a game, while KW's 2009 offense averaged 31.08 points per game. A one point per game difference is a wash. But KW had far more injury problems on his team than Mangino.

And in 2001, we lost Hybl and White.

He may not have had 4 Oline graduate. But OU suffered their fair share of injuries on offense in 2001.


your point?

[Collier11]

In 2 years Manginos offenses scored less than 20 points 6 times
In 4 years Wilsons offenses scored less than 20 points 8 times

Against ranked teams Manginos offenses scored 30.2 ppg over 9 games
Against ranked teams Wilsons offenses scored 32.1ppg over 22 games

I can do this all night

[OU_Sooners75]

In 2 years Manginos offenses scored less than 20 points 6 times
In 4 years Wilsons offenses scored less than 20 points 8 times

Against ranked teams Manginos offenses scored 30.2 ppg over 9 games
Against ranked teams Wilsons offenses scored 32.1ppg over 22 games

I can do this all night


Me too. You can bend stats to fit any argument. :pop:

[Crucifax Autumn]

Just to recap, and yeah...I took it from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth:


The 2001 Oklahoma Football season started off with a bang. On the first play from scrimmage against North Carolina, highly touted defensive tackle recruit Tommie Harris, now an All-Pro with the Chicago Bears, brought down the ball carrier for a three-yard loss. The Sooners wanted to make a good impression after winning the National Championship the season before, and through the first few games of the season, they did just that. The Sooners took care of North Carolina (41–27), Air Force (44–3), and North Texas (37–10) with very little resistance. However, in the fourth game of the season, an aggressive blitzing scheme kept Sooner QB Nate Hybl on his back and the Wildcats in the game before OU finally pulled out the victory over Kansas State, 38–37. This set up another Cotton Bowl Classic battle against OU's most-hated rival—the Texas Longhorns. This year's version of the battle would turn into a game that fans from both teams would never forget thanks to Sooner defensive back Roy Williams, now a safety with the Cincinnati Bengals. Late in the game, Williams launched himself over a blocker and into Sooner lore by batting down the Chris Simms pass into the arms of linebacker Teddy Lehman, now playing with the Detroit Lions. This play has since come to be known as the "Superman" play, and was the play that launched Roy Williams' Heisman Trophy candidacy. (He would wind up finishing fourth in Heisman voting.) The OU / Texas game is also remembered for another reason... it was the day that future Heisman Trophy winner Jason White came into the game to replace starter Nate Hybl after he was injured. White played incredibly well in backup duty, exciting Sooner fans for both the immediate and long-term future of the QB position.

After the Texas win, the Sooners went on to dominate two more conference foes (Kansas 38–10, Baylor 33–17) before a battle against rival Nebraska. And, as so many games in the past were, this OU / Nebraska game was a battle of #1 vs. #2. This time, however, the Sooners would suffer their first setback of the season, losing 20–10 on a late trick play that launched Nebraska quarterback Eric Crouch's Heisman campaign. Crouch would go on to win the Heisman, largely on the strength of his performance against the Sooners that afternoon, which looked even better after now-starter Jason White went down with an injury and a cold Nate Hybl was brought back in, this time against Nebraska's hard-hitting defense.

Following that loss with three more blowouts (Tulsa 58–0, Texas A&M 31–10, and Texas Tech 30–13) the Sooners would play their final regular season game at home against rival Oklahoma State, losing the game 16–13 due, primarily, to the ineffectiveness of the Sooner offense.

The Sooners would end their season in the Cotton Bowl Classic against the Arkansas Razorbacks, winning a defensive battle 10–3 and getting Sooner fans excited about the team's prospects for the next season.


Not how much defense is a factor in all that and how many times the offense lost it.

[Collier11]

His loss hurt. but nearly as bad as people want to think. Um, this is just retarded. We lost our #1 redzone thread, the best TE in the nation, and our only TE capable apparently of making plays

So in other words, our backups just are not capable?

You lose your entire offensive line there will be no cohesiveness. Not to mention we had to play several newcomers on the Oline throughout the year which is never good.

[Collier11]

Me too. You can bend stats to fit any argument. :pop:

Difference is that I dont have to bend them, my info backs up my argument. You havent even presented any info to back you up that was accurate. And before you go and ask me how they havent been accurate, I have pointed out in 3 of your posts where your information was incorrect

[Leroy Lizard]

How would Texas know? They have not had a Heisman winner since Ricky Williams and he was a RB.

That only strengthens my argument. We saw what happened when UT lost McCoy, and he wasn't even a Heisman Trophy winner.


His loss hurt. but not nearly as bad as people want to think.

Evidently it must have.

This is crazy. We have this drop off in production, but then he says that the loss of our TE didn't really hurt us that much.


So in other words, our backups just are not capable?

WTF do you thinK!?!?! You saw them out there! Did they look as capable to you???

Guys, this man is just a ****'in idiot and I have no more patience. To him, we should be able to line up all 11 starters and shoot them with no affect on offensive production.

[OU_Sooners75]

His loss hurt. but nearly as bad as people want to think. Um, this is just retarded. We lost our #1 redzone thread, the best TE in the nation, and our only TE capable apparently of making plays

So in other words, our backups just are not capable?

You lose your entire offensive line there will be no cohesiveness. Not to mention we had to play several newcomers on the Oline throughout the year which is never good.


And we had others that are capable. Losing him hurt. But he was not there from the start of the season...so we should have had a TE ready...and we didnt. Why not? Coaching? IDK.

[Crucifax Autumn]

See Leroy? The posse isn't a 50 headed monster! Or if we are, the brains all act independently!

[OU_Sooners75]

Difference is that I dont have to bend them, my info backs up my argument. You havent even presented any info to back you up that was accurate. And before you go and ask me how they havent been accurate, I have pointed out in 3 of your posts where your information was incorrect


So does mine. ..if you are too ignorant to see that, then that is something you have to correct.

[Collier11]

You dont just easily replace the greatest or 2nd greatest TE in school history. The other TEs that we had with any experience were blockers, not pass catchers, the only pass catchers we had were young an inexperienced

[OU_Sooners75]

That only strengthens my argument. We saw what happened when UT lost McCoy, and he wasn't even a Heisman Trophy winner.



Evidently it must have.

This is crazy. We have this drop off in production, but then he says that the loss of our TE didn't really hurt us that much.



WTF do you thinK!?!?! You saw them out there! Did they look as capable to you???

Guys, this man is just a ****'in idiot and I have no more patience. To him, we should be able to line up all 11 starters and shoot them with no affect on offensive production.

Actually our starters did not look capable outside of Broyles and Jones.

[Crucifax Autumn]

And we had others that are capable. Losing him hurt. But he was not there from the start of the season...so we should have had a TE ready...and we didnt. Why not? Coaching? IDK.

He was busy playing Center...and guard, and punting and playing running back...oh, and coaching the defensive backs while selling hot dogs in the stands.

[Collier11]

So does mine. ..if you are too ignorant to see that, then that is something you have to correct.

You are all over the place, you havent proven a thing except that you cant stick to one argument and that you overstate things only to have to go back on them

[Collier11]

I have presented facts and stats to dispel every single thing you have said, that supersedes your inaccurate opinions, especially when your opinion is backed up by inaccurate facts

[OU_Sooners75]

You dont just easily replace the greatest or 2nd greatest TE in school history. The other TEs that we had with any experience were blockers, not pass catchers, the only pass catchers we had were young an inexperienced


And whose responsible to get those guys ready to play? The player or the coaches?

Mainly the coaches. The player must show he is ready though.

However, it is the coaches job to teach the players and to prepare them for what they are about to go through. The player cannot teach that to himself.

So whose shoulders are to bare the weight of not having our players ready to step in and play?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Actually our starters did not look capable outside of Broyles and Jones.

Jesus...It really was bad this year. We had Broyles and Jones at TE! :eek:

[OU_Sooners75]

You are all over the place, you havent proven a thing except that you cant stick to one argument and that you overstate things only to have to go back on them


I am just trying to stick up with you and your butt buddy lizard.

I have given stats showing that OU as an offense under mangino has never averaged under 32 points per game. Whereas Wilson has had two season under that mark.

[OU_Sooners75]

Jesus...It really was bad this year. We had Broyles and Jones at TE! :eek:


Starters as a whole this year, dip****! :texan:

[Collier11]

we had guys who could step in, the issue was that they didnt have the same skill set as Gresham. On the offensive line you should know that they need to play together as much as possible to become a solid group and that never happened, not for one game

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yawn...My bowels are telling me to hit the library and read for a few. I'll be back to argue the merits of putting the ball boy at center and Bob's wife at TE shortly.

[OU_Sooners75]

we had guys who could step in, the issue was that they didnt have the same skill set as Gresham. On the offensive line you should know that they need to play together as much as possible to become a solid group and that never happened, not for one game


So were you disappointed in the RBs after AD left?

The point, that type of talent does not come along every year.

However, we must have guys that are willing and ready to produce.

We did not have this year.

[Crucifax Autumn]

We did not have this year.

Can we do that? I'd love to not have this year! :P

[Collier11]

So were you disappointed in the RBs after AD left?

The point, that type of talent does not come along every year.

However, we must have guys that are willing and ready to produce.

We did not have this year.

and since he has left production and big plays have fallen off from our RBs, theyve been really good at times but never great

[OU_Sooners75]

and since he has left production and big plays have fallen off from our RBs, theyve been really good at times but never great


Exactly. We knew before the season started Gresham was not going to be playing.

With that knowledge, it is up to the coaching staff to make sure the next guy is ready and able.

[OU_Sooners75]

Can we do that? I'd love to not have this year! :P


Where is that middle finger smiley when you need it? this will work:hot: act like it is a middle finger!

[OU_Sooners75]

****...I did my job....I got this over 11 pages long.

Have a great time...I am done with this epic BS thread!

whenever i get my spekker workin, I will spek you fuqqers!

[Collier11]

****...I did my job....I got this over 11 pages long.

Have a great time...I am done with this epic BS thread!

whenever i get my spekker workin, I will spek you fuqqers!

Im glad that you can admit defeat...Goodnite!

[OU_Sooners75]

Im glad that you can admit defeat...Goodnite!

I aint leaving...just done with this thread!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Wow...You gave up easy!

[Sooner70]

Houston Chronicle reports today that Arizona Wildcats offensive coordinator Sonny Dykes will be new coach at La Tech replacing Derek Dooley.

[ashley]

It is obvious that not many on here ever called plays. From the living room does not count.

[goingoneight]

I will give credit to KW when he proves that he can have his offense prepared for the unthinkable.

Losing your QB sucks, expecially the leader Bradford was. However, as a player they know it is possible on any play. The OL and the rest of the offense has a job to do. If they cannot do it because one player got hurt, then it falls on the coaching staff to make the appropiated changes.

If that is personnel or game plans, it is up to the coaches.

And as I have stated before. I think he is a good OC. But he his play calling sometimes leaves something to be desired.

So, I guess you'll give him credit for 2006, right?

Or how about developing a high school "athlete" into a record-smashing QB in his first two years as a starting QB?

Or how about the fact that all that "NFL talent" is nothing more than bodies until it's trained in OUr system... which is fine until ill fate takes a shat on it.

[ndpruitt03]

Are we really scared of having no running game with Leach? I mean, did we have a running game this year with Wilson?

What was our record those 2 seasons.

[Crucifax Autumn]

It is obvious that not many on here ever called plays. From the living room does not count.

True enough, but I was the DM of a lot of campaigns in the 80s! :P

[Crucifax Autumn]

[QUOTE=goingoneight;2820627]Or how about developing a high school "athlete" into a record-smashing QB in his first two years as a starting QB?
QUOTE]

I give that achievement to Huepel's coaching and the fact that Sam was a true Sooner born and bred. That doesn't change my opinion of Wilson though. Only the 2010 season can really make me change my mind about Wilson. He should have all the pieces in place to prove he's a great coach and assuming nothing crazy happens he will show us whether 08 was him or the talent and other coaches.

[Leroy Lizard]

It is obvious that not many on here ever called plays. From the living room does not count.

It's worse than that. They want to call the play in their living room AFTER the play has been run.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Houston Chronicle reports today that Arizona Wildcats offensive coordinator Sonny Dykes will be new coach at La Tech replacing Derek Dooley.

That bloes for Mike, but technically it expands the Stoops coaching tree I suppose.

Any word on what Mike and the Cats are gonna do to replace him? If I was Mike I'd be calling Leach and Mangino.

[Crucifax Autumn]

It's worse than that. They want to call the play in their living room AFTER the play has been run.

I've been scripting plays for next year's games in my handy dandy notebook. ;)

[Crucifax Autumn]

What was our record those 2 seasons.

My record was Zeppelin 4...You?

[Leroy Lizard]

Or how about the fact that all that "NFL talent" is nothing more than bodies until it's trained in OUr system... which is fine until ill fate takes a shat on it.

Or, that NFL talent looks like NFL talent because the offensive coordinator has done his job in setting up a successful offense.

Think about it:

Broyles goes out for a pass and is flattened just as he tries to catch it -- incompletion.

Broyles goes out for a pass and is open down the middle -- he catches it for a TD.

Which one makes Broyles look better?

[Leroy Lizard]

I doubt Leach will settle for an OC job in Arizona. (Does AZ want to run Leach's offense?) Maybe Mangino.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Why are you still awake? What did you sleep? 2 hours?

I can't talk, I'm still drunk and arguing with 75 in my mnd!

[Crucifax Autumn]

I doubt Leach will settle for an OC job in Arizona. (Does AZ want to run Leach's offense?) Maybe Mangino.

LEach will sit it out until he assrapes Tech of course, but if I as Mike I'd still make the call.

[JLEW1818]

cat fight?

[Crucifax Autumn]

xPwRF_5OLbA

[Leroy Lizard]

How would Mangino hold up in the desert heat?

[JLEW1818]

cheetoh's

[Crucifax Autumn]

How would Mangino hold up in the desert heat?

Might be good for his health...Or a heart attack. Then again, it's a dry heat.

[TXBOOMER]

Regardless of who the OC is I would like to see us change our philosophy a little and run some zone read (not with LJ). I would like to see us master the horse pig (need better line play). I would like to see us run more straight forward isolation runs and less zone blocking stretch runs. I would like to see us widen our gaps and throw it around some etc. I would like to see a good mix of all of it. Only problem is you gatta have the players to do it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a heck of an offseason. BOOMER!

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'd like to see us run some "win the close game offense", but I like Wilson for the most part.

[MamaMia]

Back to Kevin Wilson. Did he leave or not?

[JLEW1818]

nope

[MamaMia]

nope
Thank you for saving some precious moments of my life. :)

[soonerborn30]

We're up 20-0 against Ohio State and Lott goes down. He is replaced by a freshman (Jameson). We end up having to kick a field goal as time expires to win.

We lose Aikman against Miami and (freshman) Holieway comes in. We lose.

Texas loses its starting QB against Bama, and loses.

When you lose your starting QB and the replacement is a freshman, you are going to lose more often than naught.

Gee, why is that?

You still haven't shared your football knowledge credentials with us, Lizard. I'm sure a resume as impressive as the one you're putting together takes time, but DO try to get it to us right away. I for one am dying to read about all the experience you have that makes you a better judge on well, everything, than anyone else.

And you might look for better examples of freshmen QB failings, seeing as how that Holieway guy won a NC as a Frosh and all.

You still haven't changed your sig. I hope your students don't realize their prof can't even spell Cheeto. They will lose all respect for you (especially the stoners).

[Salt City Sooner]

Thank you for saving some precious moments of my life. :)
Consider youself lucky. I'm still looking for that half hour of mine that I just lost.