History lesson for Most, but mainly for Texas fans...

[OU_Sooners75]

when they decide to use the "59-40-5 card"....meaning they have nothing better to add to the conversation or debate:

A history lesson:

Texas fans, you are correct, that OU is trailing by 19 games all time (59-40-5) in the series with Texas. However, when you break this stuff down, the series is a lot closer than you or any other Texass fan wants to admit.

We will look at when they did not play every single season (1900-1929), The pre-modern era, and the modern era. Then we will have a slight history lesson of what the Modern Era is.

From 1900 to 1929 OU and texas played a total of 24 times (twice in 1901).
The record 15-8-1 in favor of Texas.

From 1930-1945 or the rest of the pre-modern era of college football, they played each other every year and a total of 16 games.
The record: 12-3-1 in favor of Texas.

For the entire non-modern era of CFB Texas leads 27-11-2

For the Modern era or since 1946, the series is rather even.
Texas does lead it still at 32-29-3, but it narrows the gap quite a bit.


What is the modern era and when did it come about?

Some say it is after WWII, while others say it began in 1950.

Prior to the end of WWII, college enrollment was available only to a small few. Therefore, there were only a handful of schools who were able to field truly competitive teams.

After WWII (1945-1946) soldiers came home and took advantage of the Montgomery GI Bill. Because of this GI Bill, a lot of the nations colleges and Universities began massive expansion programs in enrollment.

Due to this massive expansion of students, Colleges were given a deeper pool of talent in the sports they had at the time. It was also at this time when recruiting guidelines were adapted by the NCAA (though the NCAA was formed in 1905 as the IAAUS).

Meaning before WWII, you did not even have to be part of the university to play for the team. In fact many teams early on fielded players that worked and lived within the communities of the colleges and Universities (such as firemen, pharmacists, and farmers). Hell, even coaches could play on the team if they had to fill a gap.

Does Texas lead the series all time? Yes? Does Texas lead in the modern era of college football? Yes. But when you look at it from a prospective when the game became more rule driven and had rules and guidelines as to whom could play on your team...the series is very close.

Below are some links I found for the sources of this history lesson.

History of the GI Bill (http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/history.htm)
History of the NCAA (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/about+the+ncaa/overview/history.html)
College Football Data Warehouse (http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/big12/oklahoma/opponents_records.php?teamid=3198)

Side Note: Yes I was bored!

[Jacie]

College football's past does make comparison between old vs current problematic. Rules changes have made the it a different game. Touting a team's prowess from the early 20th century like Yale and Alabama's "national" championships is absurd next to today's game.

[soonerhubs]

Can we add an era? The "When those cheating officiating crews from the old SWC retire" era? ;)

[OU_Sooners75]

Can we add an era? The "When those cheating officiating crews from the old SWC retire" era? ;)
:eek:

LOL

[OUDoc]

I'll take the championships. They can have the series.

[salth2o]

I'll take the championships. They can have the series.


This!

[TexasLidig8r]

sigh...

Off season means endless, boring, trite, trivial, basebore games rammed down our throats on a daily basis..

and threads like this one...


SUCCS

sigh... when does football start again...

[fwsooner22]

I think the thing that tells it all is the comparison between the end of the 2008 season and the end of the 2009 season. Texas lost a nail biter at the end of the game against Tech and lost their chance at a BCS Championship. They screamed to high holy h@%%. The friggin world was ending. Nebraska loses a even more controversial game to UT and but for a few screams for a day or two its over.

That defines UT. The world owes them. Whinney little crybabies when it doesn't go their way. When it does go their way they deserve it.

1/2 second keeps the greatest QB in UT history from being shutout from every championship over his four years and he is a god down there.

Forget records, watch their actions and listen to their antics. It defines them.

Lastly, the top 10% rule is redefining their campus make-up. Another generation of that and that campus is gonna be completely different than the one from the 80's and 90's when it became all the rage that they still think it is.

[OUDoc]

sigh...

Off season means endless, boring, trite, trivial, basebore games rammed down our throats on a daily basis..

and threads like this one...


SUCCS

sigh... when does football start again...
Stop with the "ramming down the throat" talk, Lid.
This is a family board.

[soonerhubs]

Lid,
I'm sure you have a really cool image. Can you join us in the 21st century and put it up right? ;)

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

Lastly, the top 10% rule is redefining their campus make-up. Another generation of that and that campus is gonna be completely different than the one from the 80's and 90's when it became all the rage that they still think it is.


I teach/coach down here in Texas for the last 15 years. This is gonna change.

The top 10% rule, for those not living south of Red River, is any student who graduates high school in the top 10% of his/her high school can automatically enroll in any state Texas university. This is to create more diversity.

However, the Austin Westlakes and Southlake Carrolls of Texas, et al, have just about gotten the rule removed. The enrollment demographics will begin to change again. In a couple of more years the 10% rule will be gone.

[OUmillenium]

So what will that mean to * and its athletic programs or just football for instance?

[fwsooner22]

I teach/coach down here in Texas for the last 15 years. This is gonna change.

The top 10% rule, for those not living south of Red River, is any student who graduates high school in the top 10% of his/her high school can automatically enroll in any state Texas university. This is to create more diversity.

However, the Austin Westlakes and Southlake Carrolls of Texas, et al, have just about gotten the rule removed. The enrollment demographics will begin to change again. In a couple of more years the 10% rule will be gone.

Actually they already changed it. To 8%. It won't change from there. I wish it would I have three kids who it will have an effect on but I don't think its going to go for a very long time.

We have kids at our high school with 4.8 grade averages and 1900 SAT's and they can't get in but Bubba from Burkburnett who has 3.7 and a 1300 SAT is in. What a joke.

You know where some of those kids end up going when they live in FW and can't get into UT. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.

[Oldnslo]

Thanks, S.Padre, but I don't understand. How was the 10% rule going to change things for the good or bad? Why would automatic enrollment in any state university have a necessary impact on college football? What am I missing?

[TexasLidig8r]

Actually they already changed it. To 8%. It won't change from there. I wish it would I have three kids who it will have an effect on but I don't think its going to go for a very long time.

We have kids at our high school with 4.8 grade averages and 1900 SAT's and they can't get in but Bubba from Burkburnett who has 3.7 and a 1300 SAT is in. What a joke.

You know where some of those kids end up going when they live in FW and can't get into UT. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA.


I further understand that the 8% applies to only 75% of the entering class and other considerations can be taken into account for the remaining 25%.

This is to prevent circumstances such as Jane Smith, who is in the top 15% of her class at Ursuline may be denied admission, but Skippy McSkipSkip, who is number 3 in his class and EastBejus Popcorn High School, is admitted because of his standing in the class.

The top 10% rule has resulted in a huge influx of kids going to Kansas and Missouri.

As for Ou... isn't there a rule that if a kid in a Texas high school is in the top 1/3 of his class, he gets to pay in state tuition?

[MiccoMacey]

There is a 1/3 rule, but that's not it.

If the kid is from Texas, the OU rule states, "Said student shall be harrassed on a daily basis, not less than 1/3 of the time of his awakened period, on all days in the week leading up to the RRS. Such harrassment shall include, but is not limited to, childish name calling, incessant inverted 'hook'em horns' signs, and atomic wedgies. "

It's in the handbook.

[OUDoc]

As for OU... isn't there a rule that if a kid in a Texas high school is in the top 1/3 of his class, he gets to pay in state tuition?

I never heard that and, since we are a taxpayer-funded state school, it would surprise me a little bit if it were true. Not a lot, just a little bit.

[TexasLidig8r]

I never heard that and, since we are a taxpayer-funded state school, it would surprise me a little bit if it were true. Not a lot, just a little bit.


Just found it. No. Ou doesn't offer reciprocity on in state tuition.

At Arkansas though, if a Texas resident has a 3.25 GPA or a 24 on the ACT, he pays in state tuition. Then again. .hell.. at Arkansas, if you have all of your teeth and regularly wear shoes, the chop your tuition in half.

[TexasLidig8r]

There is a 1/3 rule, but that's not it.

If the kid is from Texas, the OU rule states, "Said student shall be harrassed on a daily basis, not less than 1/3 of the time of his awakened period, on all days in the week leading up to the RRS. Such harrassment shall include, but is not limited to, childish name calling, incessant inverted 'hook'em horns' signs, and atomic wedgies. "

It's in the handbook.


Micco old dog.. where the hell have you been hiding out?

[MiccoMacey]

Orangebloods and Soonerscoop for the most part...the back alley of an Irish Pub the rest of the time. ;)

[S.PadreIsl.Sooner]

Thanks, S.Padre, but I don't understand. How was the 10% rule going to change things for the good or bad? Why would automatic enrollment in any state university have a necessary impact on college football? What am I missing?


I was just explaining what the rule is. Athletic scholarships are not affected by the rule.

[yankee]

The top 10% rule has resulted in a huge influx of kids going to Kansas and Missouri.

As for Ou... isn't there a rule that if a kid in a Texas high school is in the top 1/3 of his class, he gets to pay in state tuition?

bingo...add OU and OSU to that list of transplant magnets with mizzou and ku....and, as a texas resident currently at OU, i (read:parents) only wish there was that state tuition deal. OSU has a deal similar to that, and as mentioned before, arkansas.

[Leroyt]

at Arkansas, if you have all of your teeth and regularly wear shoes, the chop your tuition in half.
Actually, they call those folks "perfesser". The only thing as dumb as arguing all time record is arguing against it (see: aggy).:D

[Tigeman]

No in-state tuition for class ranking. HOWEVER, if either parent is an alumni, you can receive in-state tuition as a student from TX.

Which during my undergrad, the majority of my friends that were here from TX were taking advantage of this.

[BajaOklahoma]

No in-state tuition for class ranking. HOWEVER, if either parent is an alumni, you can receive in-state tuition as a student from TX.

Which during my undergrad, the majority of my friends that were here from TX were taking advantage of this.

That went away in 2001. Just in time for my kids. And it was from any state.

[Sooner70]

That's fine if Texas fans want to bring up that old history before Okla became a state & all that. I've lived amongst Texas fans forever. What I tell them is that they have a good program that's trying to get better, but it's not elite yet. Very few programs are elite. Texas doesn't even compare with OU in many areas--heck their longest winning streak isn't better than OU"s second longest streak, and they don't even compare when it comes to Heismans, Big 12 Championships, National Championships......etc. Texas has a good program trying to get better---but not elite--, but for now, let's just leave it at that.

[OU_Sooners75]

That's fine if Texas fans want to bring up that old history before Okla became a state & all that. I've lived amongst Texas fans forever. What I tell them is that they have a good program that's trying to get better, but it's not elite yet. Very few programs are elite. Texas doesn't even compare with OU in many areas--heck their longest winning streak isn't better than OU"s second longest streak, and they don't even compare when it comes to Heismans, Big 12 Championships, National Championships......etc. Texas has a good program trying to get better---but not elite--, but for now, let's just leave it at that.


Well, that is just too many words...LOL

I have found that just saying something like, "your momma" or "Tuck Fexas" usually does a good trick too.

I did this history thing because I was bored and it answered more than just the OU/Texass debate.

It defined a logical response to what is the Modern Era and when did it start.

[StoopTroup]

Tuition smack....lol

[PLaw]

... Texas lost a nail biter at the end of the game against Tech and lost their chance at a BCS Championship. They screamed to high holy h@%%. The friggin world was ending. Nebraska loses a even more controversial game to UT and but for a few screams for a day or two its over.

That defines UT. The world owes them. Whinney little crybabies when it doesn't go their way. When it does go their way they deserve it.

Forget records, watch their actions and listen to their antics. It defines them.

.

^^^^This. Anytime texas loses, it is due to something out of their control - officiating, cheating, or whatever. The texas issues of not consistently winning the SWC in the late 70's and early 80's drove them to report every other team in the conference to the NCAA which ultimately destroyed the conference. At one point, every single member of the conference, including texas, had some degree of NCAA probation. Granted, those were the wild west days of recruiting and athlete benefits outside of the NCAA rules and texas was not without their own issues.

BOOMER

[TexasLidig8r]

^^^^This. Anytime texas loses, it is due to something out of their control - officiating, cheating, or whatever. The texas issues of not consistently winning the SWC in the late 70's and early 80's drove them to report every other team in the conference to the NCAA which ultimately destroyed the conference. At one point, every single member of the conference, including texas, had some degree of NCAA probation. Granted, those were the wild west days of recruiting and athlete benefits outside of the NCAA rules and texas was not without their own issues.

BOOMER

Wow.. this post is filled with so many inaccuracies it's difficult to know where to begin.

As for excuses.. my God.. did you even read this website this past year.. for that matter, the past few years. It is incredibly rare when there is the least amount of graciousness when your team loses.. then, you start to cannibalize your own players and coaches.

As for "reporting" other programs let's see... SMU's own players ratted the program out... TCU turned themself in.. aggy was exposed by the Dallas Morning News...

What led to the demise of the Southwest Conference was the same thing that will eventually lead to the demise of the Big XII.. not even television sets to give incentive for the corporations to pay stupid amounts of money to the networks for commercial time. There was a lack of national appeal for corporations.... same thing that will eventually signal the end of the Big XII.

And.. as a sooner fan.. do you really want to talk about NCAA probations? Really?

[CrimsonJim]

Naw, let's just talk about Heisman winners, conference championships and national championships. That work for you?

[TexasLidig8r]

Naw, let's just talk about Heisman winners, conference championships and national championships. That work for you?

Hypesman winners.. really? That is of relevance ?

Conference championships.. are we to include the Big 2, Little 6 you used to belong to?

national championships? Sure.. if we can include those pesky little probation issues that seem to surround the vast majority of yours.

It's too early in the off-season to start with the constant sniping. Let's at least wait till after national signing day.

[OUDoc]

If you include the pathetic SWC titles, we can include the Big 8.

Probation. Pffft. That's all you've got?

[Partial Qualifier]

national championships? Sure.. if we can include those pesky little probation issues that seem to surround the vast majority of yours.

Ohh, there it is. Straight from Hornfans.com.

Why go to Hornfans for laughs anymore, when Lid brings Hornfans to us?

[TexasLidig8r]

If you include the pathetic SWC titles, we can include the Big 8.

Probation. Pffft. That's all you've got?

nah Doc.. just not in the mood right now to mix it up.. it's still too soon in the off-season.. and for some reason... this upcoming off-season seems like it's gonna take an incredibly long time to pass...:(

Will start to mix it up some with the Posse at some point for kicks.. but right now.. blah... I'm more in the "whatever" frame of mind and will just toss out the "old standbys" until it gets interesting.

[CrimsonJim]

Hypesman winners.. really? That is of relevance ?

Sure, it's as relevant as any of the other tripe you like to bring up, so why not? ;)


Conference championships.. are we to include the Big 2, Little 6 you used to belong to?

Only if you want to count yours from the SWC. :cool:


national championships? Sure.. if we can include those pesky little probation issues that seem to surround the vast majority of yours.

Whatever makes you feel better. They still add up the same. :D


It's too early in the off-season to start with the constant sniping. Let's at least wait till after national signing day.

Wow, I didn't think I'd ever hear that from you. That last beating must have really taken a lot out of you. :rolleyes:

[TexasLidig8r]

Wow, I didn't think I'd ever hear that from you. That last beating must have really taken a lot out of you. :rolleyes:

Beating?

Obviously you didn't recognize when a team plays with heart and seeks to overcome huge adversity in a championship game... instead of giving up and losing 55 - 19.

It's too early in the off-season to have to educate you. Give it a rest for awhile.

[Sooner in Tampa]

Beating?

Obviously you didn't recognize when a team plays with heart and seeks to overcome huge adversity in a championship game... instead of giving up and losing 55 - 19.

It's too early in the off-season to have to educate you. Give it a rest for awhile.
Lid, Lid, Lid...now you are running smack for SUC :confused:

Geeze you really are losing it

[OUDoc]

Beating?

Obviously you didn't recognize when a team plays with heart and seeks to overcome huge adversity in a championship game... instead of giving up and losing 55 - 19.

It's too early in the off-season to have to educate you. Give it a rest for awhile.
To be fair, there were more paid employees of the University of Southern California on that team than UT has on the Austin police force.

[TexasLidig8r]

Lid, Lid, Lid...now you are running smack for SUC :confused:

Geeze you really are losing it

yah I know.. weak sauce.. just.. not yet in the mood to do the "off-season" wrangling on here.

Am kind of in a .. "hell, I think I will just behave because August seems like light years away" mode right now.

Off season sucks.

Basebore sucks.

January sucks.

The NFL sucks.

The NBA sucks.

[Crucifax Autumn]

You left out a great big bunch of orange suck.

[Jello Biafra]

Beating?

Obviously you didn't recognize when a team plays with heart and seeks to overcome huge adversity in a championship game... instead of giving up and losing 55 - 19.



hmmm kinda like you guys taking the two of the worst beatings in the history of * football?

tell me...how DID those 63-14 and 64-13 dichburgers taste?

also, is it true counselor, you like your suitors to squeeze the boils on your back while they have you cracked over?

[CrimsonJim]

Beating?

Obviously you didn't recognize when a team plays with heart and seeks to overcome huge adversity in a championship game... instead of giving up and losing 55 - 19.

It's too early in the off-season to have to educate you. Give it a rest for awhile.

Yes, beating! The only reason it was as close as it was is because Bamer put it on cruise control too early. They were able to crank it back up in time to close out the game with a comfortable margin of victory.

And yes, +exas did play with a great deal of heart. I'm not trying to take that from you. But heart isn't always enough to overcome a superior team, as you well found out.

Educate ME? Thanks for the chuckle. :D

[Leroy Lizard]

And yes, +exas did play with a great deal of heart. I'm not trying to take that from you. But heart isn't always enough to overcome a superior team, as you well found out.

Does that extend to their WRs not named Shipley?

[CrimsonJim]

I was just speaking in generalities. Lid gets confused if you go into specifics.

[Crucifax Autumn]

"playing with a lot of heart" is whorn-talk for "moral victory". These orange teams think some dumb **** is as good as winning.

[olevetonahill]

yah I know.. weak sauce.. just.. not yet in the mood to do the "off-season" wrangling on here.

Am kind of in a .. "hell, I think I will just behave because August seems like light years away" mode right now.

Off season sucks.

Basebore sucks.

January sucks.

The NFL sucks.

The NBA sucks.

Texas sucks.

I suck.




:eek:

[StoopTroup]

yah I know.. weak sauce.. just.. not yet in the mood to do the "off-season" wrangling on here.

Am kind of in a .. "hell, I think I will just behave because August seems like light years away" mode right now.

Texas sucks.

I suck.

Texas sucks.

I suck.

Texas sucks.

I suck.

Texas sucks.

I suck.

Texas sucks.

I suck.

Texas sucks.

I suck.

Nice. SPEK!

[olevetonahill]

Nice. SPEK!


At least that lid is honest ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

BTW, I'm sick of hearing cliches like "they played with a lot of heart." Whatever happened to "they tried real hard to win"?

[Crucifax Autumn]

It's residing in the graveyard with "He didn't go to jail while he was in college".

[Sooner70]

When the NC game turned up the way it did this year, I was kinda an ambivalent observer. It was hard for me to be for either team, so I just wanted to see a good game. However, I really hated it for Colt that he got hurt early on & the game he was pointing to his whole career didn't happen for him. I hated that because basically I think he's a good kid who just made a poor choice of where to play college ball.

Anyway, the irony of it all. After the BYU game I had Texas fans come around taunting & making fun of baby "Samantha" and his inability to take hits because he no longer had the brick wall OL. I had Texas fans say before the Cotton Bowl debacle Oct 17th that a room had been reserved at Parkland for Samantha because Texas was going to put him out of business, which is what happened. Then, of course you'all all know about the endless whining and airplane signs last year when OU went to NC and poor entitled Texas was left out.

Well, here we go. Colt goes down on 5th play and Texas gets hammered in NC game. One Texas fan did come by & say "...well, I know how OU fans feel now.." I replied, "...how do you think Texas woulda done this year without Colt AND Shipley??....."...That's essentially what OU had to deal with Bradford & Gresham out essentially all season.

What goes around comes around. All those Texas fans that were crowing about grounding "Samantha" Oct 17 and winning the Big 12 are silent. They now see how it can be. OU fans have lived with that all year.

I still hated to see it for Colt's sake. He's a good kid. Hope things turn out well for him in the future.

[Jello Biafra]

hmmm kinda like you guys taking the two of the worst beatings in the history of * football?

tell me...how DID those 63-14 and 64-13 dichburgers taste?

also, is it true counselor, you like your suitors to squeeze the boils on your back while they have you cracked over?

so, no answer lid?

bumped so you can see it AGAIN.

[Clever Trevor]

national championships? Sure.. if we can include those pesky little probation issues that seem to surround the vast majority of yours.


I guess we'll have to invalidate half of your titles, as well.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Hell, I already invalidated the entire program, school, and state.

[MamaMia]

very impressive research OU_Sooners75.

[OU_Sooners75]

very impressive research OU_Sooners75.


Thank you

[Jello Biafra]

callin lid...

[Bourbon St Sooner]

national championships? Sure.. if we can include those pesky little probation issues that seem to surround the vast majority of yours.


Hey, at least when we cheated we won championships. You guys cheated and still sucked.

We'll take down our football titles when you take down that last baseball title.