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JLEW1818
1/19/2010, 12:38 AM
the decade is coming to an end....

TNT is putting something together for awards of the decade... lets debate this..

Organization of the Decade: Lakers, edging the spurs

Player of the Decade: Kobe or Shaq, or Duncan?

...

Best Offensive player? Best Defensive player? Best Coach: Phil

Collier11
1/19/2010, 01:48 AM
Org of the Decade... Lakes but just barely over the Spurs

Player of the Decade...Id have to say Kobe, Shaq has been irrelevant the past few yrs

All Decade Team...Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, Lebron

Best Coach- Popovich

Team of the Decade...07-08 Celtics

starclassic tama
1/19/2010, 02:30 AM
pretty much spot on

JLEW1818
1/19/2010, 07:37 PM
i think Phil is over Pop .....

discuss?

JLEW1818
1/19/2010, 07:41 PM
see u might have to extend the decade some..... lakers won it in 99-00, spurs 98-99

either way tho

Eielson
1/19/2010, 07:55 PM
Throwing something together real quick off the top of my head-

Coach: Phil Jackson

Team: One of the Shaq & Kobe teams that won a championship, probably the one that only lost one playoff game

Best Player of Decade: Shaq (meaning the best player the decade saw, not the entire decade)

Players:
Shaq
Duncan
KG
Lebron
Kobe

You don't like that I used three posts? Screw you.

JLEW1818
1/19/2010, 07:59 PM
i need a point guard...... at least as a 6th man... come on now...

i know who c11 will say...

so

Jason Kidd?

Eielson
1/19/2010, 08:36 PM
Definitely Kidd.

JLEW1818
1/19/2010, 08:42 PM
Nash?

Eielson
1/19/2010, 08:55 PM
Kidd.

Collier11
1/19/2010, 09:30 PM
i need a point guard...... at least as a 6th man... come on now...

i know who c11 will say...

so

Jason Kidd?

If you had to go by position thats tough, I guess Kidd or Nash

DakotaSooner
1/20/2010, 12:18 AM
Kidd
Kobe
Duncan
KG
Shaq

Collier11
1/20/2010, 12:47 AM
After looking at the stats I dont know that id have Shaq on there, he hasnt avg 20ppg since 05-06 and hasnt avg more than 23ppg since 02-03

He hasnt been dominant since 2002

the_ouskull
1/20/2010, 04:58 PM
According to the NBA.com website, the categories, along with my choices, are:

- Individual Performance: Playoffs - Shaquille O'Neal, 2001.
- Playoff Game - Lakers/Spurs 2005, Game 5.
- Playoff Dunk - the Kobe-to-Shaq off-balance alley-oop that TNT always shows in its promos.
- Playoff Defense - I chose to go with an individual defender, not an individual play. Ben Wallace, 2003.
- Playoff Drama: Individual - Robert Horry, Lakers/Spurs, 2005, Game 5.
- Playoff Buzzer Beaters - Derek Fisher, Lakers/Spurs, 2004, Game 5.
- Playoff Series - Bulls/Celtics, 2009.
- Posterization: Regular Season - who cares?
- Buzzer Beater: Regular Season - who cares? (Devin Harris, by the way... two years ago, maybe?)
- Indiv. Performance: Regular Season - who cares? (Kobe. 81.)
- Individual Series - who cares?
- All-Star Saturday Dunk - Wow. Really? Lame. Anyway, pick one of Vince Carter's dunks from the 2000 contest. The one where he leaves his elbow in the rim was my personal favorite.
- Player of the Decade - Tim Duncan, SAS. Kiss the rings, b*tch!

the_ouskull

the_ouskull
1/20/2010, 05:02 PM
Oh, as for the Kidd v. Nash thing... If you're looking for amazing outside shooting and an uptempo offense, go with Nash. If you're looking to lose, go with Kidd. :D

Jason Kidd from the first couple of years of the decade? Great defender, excellent all-around player, as long as he wasn't asked to shoot. Now, he can shoot, but can't guard a cripple in a phone booth.

the_ouskull

Eielson
1/20/2010, 09:03 PM
- Playoff Defense - I chose to go with an individual defender, not an individual play. Ben Wallace, 2003.

Didn't Shaq drop 40 on him in a game? I don't think holding Shaq to 26.6 points on 63% shooting is that amazing.

the_ouskull
1/20/2010, 10:42 PM
Since the Pistons didn't play the Lakers in the finals until 2004, I'm pretty sure Shaq didn't drop "40 on him in a game" in the 2003 playoffs. There's no inter-conference play in the NBA playoffs. Do you watch sports?

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 12:44 AM
ok timeout... is the decade already over for titles??? was 99-00 considered the first year in this decade ?

Collier11
1/21/2010, 12:49 AM
99-00 wouldve been the last yr for the 90's decade

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 12:50 AM
positive?

Collier11
1/21/2010, 12:52 AM
yep

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 12:53 AM
okay, thought so

Collier11
1/21/2010, 12:55 AM
are you sure?

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 12:56 AM
thought so from beginning.. but a guy tonight disagreed!

the_ouskull
1/21/2010, 12:01 PM
Well, disagreements happen. Sh*t-for-brains tried to disagree with me a few posts back, and didn't have the right freakin' YEAR in his "argument," so you just kind of have to let things like that slide sometimes... :D

the_ouskull

stoops the eternal pimp
1/21/2010, 12:35 PM
I say it counts for 2000's since most of that season is played in 2000..

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 01:21 PM
Kobe Bron Bron tonight

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 01:33 PM
wow get off his dong

Like everyone else at Staples Center, I had a little extra hop in my step Saturday night. LeBron was in the house.

I skipped the second half of a live NFL playoff game for him.

I shaved and dressed up a little. For me, anyway.

I showed up early. Seven o'clock. Gotta watch the warm-ups. Gotta see everything.

You do these things when LeBron passes through town. Hey, we see celebrities all the time in Los Angeles. We walk by them on the street, pull up next to them at intersections, sit near them in restaurants. There's something of a code in place. You don't stare at celebs. You don't approach them. You don't stand two feet away and snap cell phone pictures. You show them respect. You leave them alone. Along with the weather and the lifestyle, that's the biggest reason stars like living here. They aren't treated like lions in the zoo.

So when a basketball player gets thousands of NBA fans to geek out 25 minutes before a game, especially here, he has to be special. In my newest book, I wrote about how Michael Jordan's competitiveness separated him from everyone else, but so did his force of personality. He had a knack for pulling every eyeball in the room his way ... even a room with 18,000 people in it. Referees and opponents fawned over him. Teammates followed his instructions like drones. If he made an unusually splendid play and glanced into the stands for approval, entire sections would swoon. Command of the room. That's what Jordan had. Kobe doesn't have it, and he never had it. That will always be the difference between them.

LeBron? He's getting there. I saw it with my own eyes Saturday. The Cavs emerged for warm-ups and I heard that same familiar squeal from MJ's prime. Urgent. Pleading. Desperate.

LeBron! LEBRON! LAAAAAAA-BRONNNNNNNNNN!

I saw the same flashbulbs clicking, thousands of fans taking photos so they could tell people some day that, yes, they saw LeBron James play basketball. I saw the same people crammed around one half of the court, everyone standing -- standing! -- to watch 12 guys in warm-up suits halfheartedly shoot jump shots and get loose. I saw hundreds of fans inexplicably holding out pens and papers, screaming LeBron's name and praying for the miraculous chance that he'd hop out of a layup line, jump into the crowd and start signing. I saw the same look on LeBron's face that Jordan once had -- a Tupacian "All Eyez on Me" smirk, an expression that happens when everyone stares at you no matter what you do, even if you're scratching your balls or rubbing your head, and once you come to grips with that fact, it's a little bit liberating.

LeBron gets a kick out of it. To say the least. He's the most charismatic athlete of his generation, only you wouldn't fully know it until you studied him in person. Command of the room. He might dunk in the layup lines. He might try to make a one-handed half-court shot. He might call for an alley-oop and soar above his incredulous teammates just for the hell of it. Simply saying "bursting with energy" wouldn't do him justice. It's like watching a super-coordinated, mutant 4-year-old dealing with a severe sugar rush.

I'm gonna go block Delonte's shot from behind! HAH! He didn't see me coming! Wait, I'm in the mood for an alley-oop. I need me some oop. Mo, throw me an oop. Ah, yes ... it's in the air ... I'm jumping ... DUNK! What now? I want to try a one-handed shot from the corner. Jamario, come play with me. Hold on, I just saw Baron Davis! Hey Baron! What up, dog! Watch this, I'm gonna make a half-court shot with my eyes closed ... DAMN! Just missed it. You know what I really feel like doing? Jumping on Shaq's back. Look out, Big Fella, eeeeeeeeeeee-yah!!!!!!!

Jordan saved his legs before games, using that time to stretch, practice specific shots and butter up referees. LeBron can't pace himself. Even when he walks from Point A to Point B, there's no loping or strolling. He prances. He hops up and down. And if all these people are staring at him anyway, why not rile them up with a couple ridiculous dunks? You never forget he's on the court. Not for a second. Even his teammates are enamored with him; they jockey for his attention like Octomom's kids. Jordan's supporting cast interacted with him warily, like lower-level executives tiptoeing around their CEO. You were always aware of the pecking order. With LeBron, it's a team in the truest sense. Everyone takes part in every joke. Nobody is excluded. They feed off him. Of all the superstars we have seen, there can't be a better or more beloved teammate. There just can't.

(Two other notes here: First, seeing Shaq relegated to supporting cast member status on the LeBron Express is jarring. Crammed into his ugly Cavs warm-up suit, rendered irrelevant by the ongoing attention for LeBron, Shaq wandered around looking like a bouncer at a sleazy strip club. I kept waiting for him to start checking IDs. Second, a guy in my section named Lenny has been a Clippers season-ticket holder since 1984. I asked him if he was getting MJ flashbacks during the Cleveland warm-ups. "Oh, definitely," he said. "That was the only other guy who caused ... this." Agreed.)

And when the warm-up suit comes off ... I mean, good grief. LeBron is the greatest natural athlete in NBA history. Has to be. Karl Malone's height, weight and muscles, only if you gave him the Jordan/Erving/Thompson DNA strain, Magic's passing eye and Bo Jackson's breathtaking combination of power and finesse. We're seeing someone like this again? In his first few seasons, LeBron couldn't fully harness his immense gifts; it was like watching someone carrying too many groceries at once. Now? Those gifts have been harnessed. In the first quarter Saturday night, LeBron picked off an errant pass and took off the other way. Standing near midcourt, Eric Gordon turned and started running to protect his basket, but he wasn't running with nearly enough urgency. In my section, a tortured Clips fan named Jesse screamed "GET BACK!" like he was about to watch someone get killed in a horror movie.

LeBron sniffed it out immediately. Cruised to midcourt, clicked in his nitrous canister like Vin Diesel and whooooooooooooooooooooooooosh! Flew by Gordon like a Beemer going 130 in the fast lane. Needed four strides to go from midcourt to the rim. Took off inside the foul line and ripped home a vicious dunk. "Whoa!!!!!!" That's what we screamed. What else could you say? WHOA!!!!!!!! That was the only acceptable reaction. Of all the great dunkers over the years, only Doc and LeBron had that Nitrous Canister Coast-to-Coast Dunk. Since LeBron is taller and bigger, when he does it, the court briefly shrinks in size. You read that correctly.

Look, if that was the only fun moment of the game, I would have left happy. But LeBron has those "HOLY S---!!!!!!" moments once a quarter. Late in the fourth, Gordon drove past Delonte West and tried to get to the rim, but West timed it and elevated to meet him at the backboard. And I'm watching the play thinking, "Damn, Delonte might get that," when out of nowhere, the smoke monster from "Lost" came gusting in at warp speed, jumped five feet in the air, soared over both Gordon and West and somehow blocked West's block. The smoke monster? LeBron. A blocked shot of a blocked shot!!! Have you ever seen that one before?

My friend Hirschy is adamant that we haven't seen LeBron's greatest highlight yet, but when we do, it's going to be life-altering and might get its own two-hour ESPYS show. The play will either be a hellacious follow-up dunk (the odds-on favorite) or an alley-oop like what nearly happened in Portland two Sundays ago, when Mo Williams screwed up and lofted it too high from the left side, only LeBron kept climbing and climbing -- his chin at the rim, his hand approaching the top of the backboard -- and somehow controlled the ball (behind him at this point) as his body started doing a pirouette. For a split second, it seemed like LeBron might attempt the first ever 360-degree alley-oop, then he thought better of it. I almost had a heart attack. It was the most exciting split second of my life.

When you see LeBron in person, the Greatest Highlight Ever is always in play. You don't leave your seat until he takes a breather. You just don't. You also expect LeBron's team to win the same way you always expected Jordan's team to win. Heading into the fourth quarter, with Cleveland trailing by five and LeBron having scored only 19, my friend Tollin and I had the obligatory conversations, "What should be the fourth-quarter line, and what should be the line for LeBron's final point total?" We decided "Cavs by 7.5" and "31.5 for LeBron." They ended up winning by one (didn't cover) but LeBron finished with 32 (covered). When Baron Davis' final brick clanged off the rim, all four of LeBron's teammates on the floor sprinted over to him to celebrate. He held his arms out wide and welcomed them like a happy father. From there, they pranced into the locker room, and if they stayed to have a late dinner in Los Angeles that night, I guarantee LeBron invited everybody and battled with Shaq over the check.

Again, there is no better teammate. And after watching this point get hammered home for three hours, it suddenly seemed far-fetched that LeBron James would willingly walk away from his guys -- and his fans, and his city, and his legacy in Cleveland -- just to play for someone else.

But he might.

* * * * *

On July 1, LeBron becomes a free agent. He will be able to play for any team he wants. You knew this already. You were also aware of the stakes. If LeBron leaves Cleveland, the franchise may never recover. If LeBron joins the Bulls, Knicks, Nets, Heat or Clippers -- the five most logical destinations -- that franchise becomes a top-five team regardless of players 2-12. Even the 3-37 Nets would be a 55-win team with LeBron. What will happen if he ever ends up with good teammates?

Only five times has an NBA superduperstar switched teams in his prime -- Wilt (twice), Kareem, Moses and Shaq -- and each time, their new team won at least one title. None of those players had LeBron's ceiling at the time: not even Wilt. As crazy as this sounds, he's been the most underrated story of the 2009-10 season. Forget about back-to-back MVPs ... LeBron has a chance to sweep "Player of the Month" from November to April. (Never happened before, in case you were wondering.) He's enjoying one of the greatest statistical seasons ever: 30 PPG, 8 RPG, 7 APG, 51 percent FG, 80 percent FT, 40 percent 3FG and first-team All-Defense are in play right now, only he's doing it in a loaded league surrounded by glorified role players, with a coaching staff that can't figure out much other than "Hey guys, get out of his way." Unlike past seasons, he's learning how to vacillate between MJ Mode and Magic Mode almost like he's flipping a switch. In Portland, the Blazers singled him in the first half and he dropped 31 in MJ Mode. When they doubled him in the second half, he flipped the switch to Magic, found open shooters and finished with a ho-hum 41-10-8. You cannot plan for this guy anymore. He's offensively amorphous.

Know this: The Kobe-LeBron argument is dead. It's over. LeBron James is the best basketball player alive. Whoever gets him this summer will treat their fans to 50-55 appointment home games for the next five seasons (including playoffs). If you were ever fortunate enough to have season tickets for a memorable athlete in his prime -- Gretzky, Montana, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Pedro, Koufax, whomever -- then you know exactly what this means. It's not just about the winning. It's about heading to the stadium or the park feeling like you won the lottery. It's about the buzz in the crowd, the way everyone seems like they spent just a little more time getting ready. It's about the ceiling being removed for the night. It's about the chance that, 50 years later, your grandkid or your great-grandkid will ask you, "What was it like to see HIM play every night?" ... and you'll have an answer for him. It's about the familiarity of excellence -- constant exposure to someone who's better at his job than you will ever be at anything -- and how that superiority ebbs and flows from night to night.

For the Cleveland fans, that's what they would miss most about LeBron. Forget about titles, or even the chances for titles. They would miss that ebb and flow. I never fully appreciated it with Bird in Boston. When Pedro was destroying the American League in 1999 and 2000, I appreciated it. Watched every start. Attended as many games as I could afford. I remember one Friday night, when I was dragging my girlfriend to Fenway on another date to see him, she didn't want to go. She made the salient point that, for the money we paid to buy scalped tickets, we could get dressed up and have a first-class dinner at Hamersley's.

"You don't understand," I told her. "We can always go to Hamersley's. We will NEVER have another pitcher like this."

These are the stakes with LeBron. His ceiling as a top-10 all-timer remains up for debate. Right now, he doesn't want it as badly as Jordan did or Kobe does. There's more than a hint of Shaqitis with him, a feeling that LeBron wants to win but isn't obsessed with winning. And you have to be both. Just look at what happened last summer: Kobe distinguished himself by perfecting the footwork for a startlingly effective low-post game; LeBron distinguished himself by promoting a documentary and a book. Does he want this or not? His unwillingness to play with his back to the basket, at this point of his career, with his obvious size advantage, is the only blemish on an otherwise impeccable résumé ... but it's a legitimate blemish.

(Note: On Saturday night in crunch time, the Clippers defended him with Baron Davis, knowing LeBron didn't have the low-post chops to make them pay. He should have been embarrassed afterward. Only he knows if he was.)

The silver lining: He's only 25 years old. Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe ... all of them peaked as players in their late 20s. Why? Because you need to lose a few times, need to lick your wounds and taste your own blood, need to sit in silence in the locker room of another lost season wondering what went wrong, and then you need to say, "Never again, not ever, I am NOT letting this happen again." Given how easy basketball comes to him right now, given how many people probably kiss his rear end on a day-to-day basis, given how much he enjoys playing and being part of a team, I just don't think LeBron James has hit that point yet. If it never happens, too bad. If it happens, look out.

But where will it happen? With seemingly everyone in play, I allowed myself to dream about LeBron as a Clipper on Saturday night. This wasn't the first time; you might remember my renegade plan last summer for a billionaire to offer Donald Sterling twice the value of the franchise, with the ultimate goal to sign LeBron and turn the Clippers into a twin version of the Lakers. On paper, Los Angeles fulfills LeBron's dueling "global icon" and Hollywood needs, sticks him in good weather, allows him to live a somewhat normal celebrity life and creates one of the best running sports rivalries in a while: Kobe and the Big Brother Lakers sharing Hollywood with LeBron and the Black Sheep Little Brother Who Finally Got His Act Together Clippers. For the first time since Mickey and Willie, the two best players in one sport would share one city. Quite a pipe dream.

Too bad it will never happen. Whether it's a real Clippers curse or just decades of bad karma built up from Sterling's misdeeds -- as Phil Jackson brazenly suggested last weekend by urging Sterling to do a few more "mitzvahs" to change his team's luck -- clearly, it's bigger than all of us. When Blake Griffin was lost for the season last week, people just shook their heads and said, "Of course ... it's the Clippers." LeBron is too smart to get that Clippers stink on him. He can smell it from 2,000 miles away.

So wherever he lands, it won't be here. That means we won't cross paths too often. If he remains in the Eastern Conference, I will see him once a season. If he heads West, I will see him twice. I don't know what uniform he will be wearing. I don't know how many titles he has lurking inside him. I don't know if he will keep striving to get better, or if he'll settle on getting 91.7 percent there and enjoying the ride like Shaq did. I don't know if he will average a triple-double one season, win five straight titles, maybe even give us the World's Greatest Highlight. Everything's in play. Everything. I don't know anything, and neither do you.

But I do know this ...

LeBron James will play the Clippers at least once next season. And when the game happens, I will be standing during warm-ups and gawking like everyone else. Witnesses.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100120&sportCat=nba

the_ouskull
1/21/2010, 03:15 PM
Why did you just re-post an entire Bill Simmons article?

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 04:16 PM
obsessed much?

the_ouskull
1/21/2010, 04:21 PM
What the sh*t are you babbling about? I don't speak your booga-booga language. Say what you're trying to say in plain English, please.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 04:27 PM
"What do you think about the article?"

bad day at school or something?

the_ouskull
1/21/2010, 04:32 PM
I think it's a typical Bill Simmons article. I love the guy. I read all of his articles. I bought his book. It is an amazing f*cking boom. His "love-affair," if you prefer, with LeBron has been gradual, though. It's not like this is an all-of-a-sudden thing with him. He has seen some of the best to ever play the game, live and in person. He knows his stuff.

(Not about pro football so much, though. His wife beat him in a picks contest a few years back, and she knows zero percent. She was just guessing. It made for some good articles. =)

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 04:34 PM
yah, my buddy is reading his book too... does he compare Wilt and Russell in it?

I guess that is the same one ...

Eielson
1/21/2010, 05:42 PM
bad day at school or something?

Apparently I had a bad day at school too, because I still don't understand why you posted that.

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 05:45 PM
good article.. didn't wanna make a new thread . to hear yalls take?


but I'm sure Chase Daniel is better than Lebron in your book LOL

Eielson
1/21/2010, 05:49 PM
but I'm sure Chase Daniel is better than Lebron in your book LOL

Yup. Daniel is a much better quarterback.

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 05:51 PM
by the way, I'm taking your Lakers tonight +3

no Mo Williams

Eielson
1/21/2010, 06:01 PM
I really don't care. Since I'm not playing fantasy basketball, it'll be another 40 games or so before I do.

Collier11
1/21/2010, 06:07 PM
Reg season in NBA is about as boring as there is in Pro sports

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 06:08 PM
mlb?

Eielson
1/21/2010, 06:29 PM
Pro sports just aren't much fun almost as a whole in the regular season.

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 08:04 PM
Kobe Lebron is worth watching... idc when

the_ouskull
1/21/2010, 08:36 PM
If you don't like basketball being played at its highest level, don't watch.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 08:41 PM
skull huge favor/question

in Lebrons NBA career, how many games has he fouled out in?

the_ouskull
1/21/2010, 08:41 PM
Kobe Lebron is worth watching... idc when, as long as the announcers are muted.

Ftfy.

the_ouskull

Collier11
1/21/2010, 09:14 PM
Watching Lebron in person was right up there with watching AD any Roy at OU, it was unreal

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 09:17 PM
yep i seen AD once in person.. never saw Roy.....:mad:

Collier11
1/21/2010, 09:20 PM
I saw the Superman play in person, I saw pretty much every home game and a few away games of AD and Roys careers in person, I saw Lebron drop 42 on OKC, I saw McGwire hit #46 the year he hit #70, I saw Pujols hit 3 hrs in a game

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 09:21 PM
lol i was at the game before the Pujols and Lidge thingy ....

Collier11
1/21/2010, 09:50 PM
Thats gotta be one of the biggest moments in sports history where the other team ended up winning the series

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 09:53 PM
yup, the year before, Jeff Kent off izzy... man ... probably the best moment in Astros history.. it has to be

Collier11
1/21/2010, 09:54 PM
The NLCS the year before was legendary, the catch by Edmonds, the walkoff by Edmonds, the Game winner by Rolen off of Clemens

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 09:59 PM
i still don't see how we lost to Suppan or w/e the **** his name was in game 7... what a tool

Carlos Beltran probably had the single greatest postseason ever ...

Collier11
1/21/2010, 09:59 PM
Suppan was NLCS MVP bro, he was on fire that series

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 10:00 PM
yah we choked in game 7, what was he yall's number 3 ?

Collier11
1/21/2010, 10:03 PM
pitcher?

Collier11
1/21/2010, 10:06 PM
our rotation for the series was as follows

Woody Williams
Matt Morris
Jeff Suppan
Jason Marquis
Woody Williams
Matt Morris
Jeff Suppan

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 10:09 PM
****ing Matt Morris.. when his curve was on , it was impossible to hit

Collier11
1/21/2010, 10:10 PM
When Matt Morris was healthy he was unreal, he just got old and hurt

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 10:15 PM
then dbag Carp came.

the_ouskull
1/21/2010, 10:18 PM
I'm sure you both have instant messenger. Why thread-jack your own thread...?

I mean, the taint of Eielson is ripe, sure, but surely it's not "re-thread" worthy, is it?

Who cares, I'm going to play CoDMF2.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 10:24 PM
damn, i wont be able to sleep tonight!!

JLEW1818
1/21/2010, 10:36 PM
wow Gasol way to lose me some money tonight... miss 2 clutch free throws... and you let Anderson Varejao out play you..

yes Lakers you should be scared. you suck on the road.

Eielson
1/22/2010, 12:31 AM
If you don't like basketball being played at its highest level, don't watch.

the_ouskull

If what you mean by "basketball being played at it's highest level" is the NBA, then no, I don't watch it. I mean, I'll watch the Lakers from time to time when they're on, but that's really about it. I really wouldn't call it basketball at it's highest level, though. Talent at it's highest level, but I'm not even truly sure I would call it basketball at times during the regular season. I mean, how can you have guys jogging up the court laughing about things in a close ball game? The effort really isn't there. At least not unless they can make themself look good doing it. You may think it's odd to make a big deal about laughing, but I've never been in my life been able to laugh about something when I was actually competing on the basketball court. That leads me to believe that when they're out their laughing and not playing much defense, there isn't much true competing going on. If you take away the competition from a sport, it really isn't even a sport.

The regular season in the NBA is not far from turning from a sport to just simply entertainment. They don't have near the intensity that you see in high school or college.

the_ouskull
1/23/2010, 01:20 PM
The regular season, blah, blah, blah... Nobody plays defense, blah, blah, blah...

I should block you. I've tried to read your incessant, pissant whining and crying, and I just can't anymore. I can't remember the last time you contributed anything worth consideration to any discussion into which you have stumbled. I'll try...

If it was just about the "best" team, they'd just start the season with a tournament. Bam! The end.

Over the course of an 82-game season, plus the playoffs, the cream will rise to the top. Championship teams BECOME championship teams over the course of a season, or they defend an existing championship successfully. For yourself, an admitted casual fan, all you care about is champion; the end result so that you can name-drop that team in some arbitrary post about the sport intended to indicate your knowledge, but realistically showing off your ignorance.

It's just like any other sport. Seeing players go from 19 year-old little sh*ts to 22 year-old "starting to get it's," to 28 year-old champions... for YOUR team, is what makes the ride worth it. Think OU football. A home-grown player like Jason White or Sam Bradford, vs. an A.D. or Mark Clayton. Oklahomans feel like they KNOW Jason or Sam, and that they have ADOPTED A.D. or Mark. There's the same love, it just comes from a different place.

I have laughed whilst released many a shot; usually at the person who let me get an open look. My intensity is no less for this. BUT.. over the course of a grueling 82-game season, yes, there are instances where some players "let loose" a little. Generally, those players, while entertaining - to an extent; in small doses - aren't the ones holding up that trophy at the end of the season, either. But, if nobody else is sprinting from three-point line to three-point line, and you're in the middle of an 82-plus-the-playoffs season, yeah, I get jogging a little.

"..not playing much defense." You're an idjit. You can go, right now, (in fact, I kinda wish you would) and pick out the best player on the courts at Rucker, and put them in the NBA, (if they're not already there) and they could score points. Sure, they wouldn't break out of nowhere and lead the league or any crap like that, but they could score. They're not there because of their DEFENSE. It's not that nobody in the NBA plays defense. Tell that to Ron Artest. Tim Duncan. Chris Paul. Dwight Howard. Even players like Jared Jeffries. Andersen Varajao. Gerald Wallace. Kirk Heinrich. Shane Battier. LeBron's recent emphasis and Kobe's All-Defense prowess nonwithstanding, from the top to the bottom of the league, a player's minutes are defined by their defense, not their offense.

(Except if you play for Mike D'Antoni. Then he just relies on Jeffries and Lee, and tells everybody else to start jacking... SSOL, baby. Amare still hasn't recovered...)

Basically... stop watching the losers of the league; the (until this season, seemingly) Zach Randolph's and Rasheed Wallace's, and judging the entire league based on their actions. That'd be like nobody liking this message board, just because YOU post on it.

Wait, bad comparison...

And what's turning the sport into entertainment are the money-grubbing owners, modernizing stadiums and bringing in D.J's. and halftime shows and cheerleaders... We will never see another Boston Garden again, and that saddens me. Go watch YouTube clips of the fans in the Gaahden during the Bird era. THAT'S basketball. THOSE are basketball fans. But, somewhere along the way, "taking your family to The Game" became "taking your family to a Basketball Experience." I don't like that sh*t, either, but I don't own a team to "fix" it, either.

As for intensity... I've coached high school, and college, players. Their "intensity," even the best ones, is oft-questioned. Don't kid yourself, please.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/23/2010, 01:58 PM
Skull, can you dunk?

Eielson
1/23/2010, 05:15 PM
I can't remember the last time you contributed anything worth consideration to any discussion into which you have stumbled.

This is what my spek says from 11 days ago. Must've been an accident?

"Now THAT'S a post, sir. Nice work. -- Danny"



If it was just about the "best" team, they'd just start the season with a tournament. Bam! The end.

Are you trying to say that a huge part of the NBA is entertainment?



It's just like any other sport. Seeing players go from 19 year-old little sh*ts to 22 year-old "starting to get it's," to 28 year-old champions... for YOUR team, is what makes the ride worth it. Think OU football. A home-grown player like Jason White or Sam Bradford, vs. an A.D. or Mark Clayton. Oklahomans feel like they KNOW Jason or Sam, and that they have ADOPTED A.D. or Mark. There's the same love, it just comes from a different place.

Seeing players mature and develop is more easily seen in college and high school. Oddly enough, you attempted to prove your point by using a college team.


I have laughed whilst released many a shot; usually at the person who let me get an open look. My intensity is no less for this.

It's possible that this is true. However, even if it were, you would be the exception and not the rule. I've played with and against some very talented players, and I've never seen them making a habit of laughing during games.


But, if nobody else is sprinting from three-point line to three-point line, and you're in the middle of an 82-plus-the-playoffs season, yeah, I get jogging a little.

Basically you are saying that not only do you agree that the effort isn't always there, but that you understand why. I agree. Over the course of an 82-110 game season, it's impossibly to have a high-intensity.

Even in the days you seem more fond of, Magic was made fun of for his intensity in his rookie season. I believe it was in his first NBA game, the Lakers won a close game and he was so happy that he jumped into Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's arms. Even his teammates felt he was going to wear down really early on in the season. That's a concern in the NBA because of the long season, and so players don't give it their full effort. The players are correct for doing this, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't giving it their all.


You can go, right now, (in fact, I kinda wish you would) and pick out the best player on the courts at Rucker, and put them in the NBA, (if they're not already there) and they could score points. Sure, they wouldn't break out of nowhere and lead the league or any crap like that, but they could score.

See, that's the problem. You couldn't start picking guys off the street and having them play runningback in the NFL. You couldn't pick guys up off the street and having them hit 95 mph fastballs. You couldn't pick guys off the street and have them returning Andy Roddick's serves. Yet somehow you can do this in basketball.


Tell that to Ron Artest.

The guy who used to get drunk at halftime?


Kobe's All-Defense prowess nonwithstanding

I've read Phil Jackson's book, and Kobe only plays defense some of the time. This isn't to say Kobe is lazy, in fact he's about as opposite as it gets from that. He doesn't play defense by design. They want him to be fresh for offense. He almost had to beg the coach to be allowed to play defense at times.


We will never see another Boston Garden again, and that saddens me. Go watch YouTube clips of the fans in the Gaahden during the Bird era. THAT'S basketball. THOSE are basketball fans. But, somewhere along the way, "taking your family to The Game" became "taking your family to a Basketball Experience." I don't like that sh*t, either, but I don't own a team to "fix" it, either.

Wait, aren't you supposed to be disagreeing with me?


As for intensity... I've coached high school, and college, players. Their "intensity," even the best ones, is oft-questioned. Don't kid yourself, please.

I was referring to guy's basketball.

the_ouskull
1/23/2010, 06:44 PM
This is what my spek says from 11 days ago. Must've been an accident?

"Now THAT'S a post, sir. Nice work. -- Danny"

Yeah, who knew that this steaming pile of ab*rt would be your follow-up? Nice job, Caddyshack 2.

Are you trying to say that a huge part of the NBA is entertainment?

I'm not TRYING to say sh*t. Don't make it out like I struggle to express myself. The struggle is in your understanding... as I will continue to point out throughout this post. Namely, the way that you quoted my last thread, but left out all of the sh*t that I said that was devastating to your argument. I AM saying that a huge part of owning a multi-million dollar business is the bottom line, and, when your business happens to be as public as an NBA team, there are a lot of considerations that go into said bottom line. If getting a bunch of fat guys dancing to "Pants on the Ground" is what gets butts in the seats, then go for it, I guess. Personally, I think more butts show up when the team's winning.

Seeing players mature and develop is more easily seen in college and high school. Oddly enough, you attempted to prove your point by using a college team.

Not just A college team, numbn*ts, but the college team that is the reason for all of our being here in the first place. If you want me to use professional examples of development, I'd be happy to, but I was explaining the love for watching that maturity happen, not the maturity itself. You know I think that I hate, more than anything, having to explain my simple-language posts to your dumb *ss. Even more than the idea of making out with Kurt Warner's wife.

It's possible that this is true. However, even if it were, you would be the exception and not the rule. I've played with and against some very talented players, and I've never seen them making a habit of laughing during games.

Oh, they were laughing at you, trust me.

Basically you are saying that not only do you agree that the effort isn't always there, but that you understand why. I agree. Over the course of an 82-110 game season, it's impossibly to have a high-intensity.

Effort is also subjective. If your best is a 100, and you are able to tap 100 percent of that when you need to, but your opponent's best is an 80, and they're only able to tap into 80% of that at any given time, then why the sh*t would you give anything more than 85% against them and save some of that 15% for when you actually need it? (Think Lakers v. T-Wolves or something...) And, having a night-in, night-out intensity is not impossible, nor is it even unlikely. On every team, you are going to have players who go all-out, all the time, and you are going to have buckets of sh*t. Alpha Dog players (the M.J's, and the Kobe's and Bird's, etc...) tend to motivate the buckets of sh*t into being good players, and they tend to take the second-banana type players and make them into borderline All-Stars. (ie - "Thunder" Dan making the All-Star team after Sir Charles got to Phoenix, Lamar Odom becoming an All-Star, etc, etc...)) Once again, I said, don't judge an entire league based off of the buckets of sh*t. Don't ignore that advice. It will prevent future plungerings.

Even in the days you seem more fond of, Magic was made fun of for his intensity in his rookie season.

And Vlade Divac ordered cheeseburgers from room service for a week straight 'cause it was the only English he knew. So what?

I believe it was in his first NBA game, the Lakers won a close game and he was so happy that he jumped into Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's arms. Even his teammates felt he was going to wear down really early on in the season. That's a concern in the NBA because of the long season, and so players don't give it their full effort. The players are correct for doing this, but it doesn't change the fact that they aren't giving it their all.

Once again, you with your aggrandizing. If the players that coast during quarters 1-3 are coasting during a close game in the 4th, they'll be benched.. at least by most good coaches. Also, if players are coasting, it's usually a little more subtle than you think... a.k.a. the reason I hate Vince "Jumpshot McJumpshoterton" Carter. "Giving it their all," and "playing smart, winning basketball" aren't always mutually exclusive. Sorry.

See, that's the problem. You couldn't start picking guys off the street and having them play runningback in the NFL. You couldn't pick guys up off the street and having them hit 95 mph fastballs. You couldn't pick guys off the street and have them returning Andy Roddick's serves. Yet somehow you can do this in basketball.

I'll bet a could pick up a homeless guy off of the street with better command of the language than you, though, d*mn, man, are you kidding me?

Anyway...

As I previously stated in another example of you ignoring the part of my comment that I went ahead and set up early to destroy your feeble counterargument, you couldn't do this in basketball either. There are two sides to the game, just like you wholly ignored the other side of the original comment... THEY CAN'T JUST JUMP IN BECAUSE OF THEIR DEFENSE. And, personally, I don't pick guys up at all. Good luck with it, though.

I've read Phil Jackson's book, and Kobe only plays defense some of the time. This isn't to say Kobe is lazy, in fact he's about as opposite as it gets from that. He doesn't play defense by design. They want him to be fresh for offense. He almost had to beg the coach to be allowed to play defense at times.

And if Phil Jackson says it, it's true.

As for the rest; exactly. Smart, winning basketball doesn't always mean what you're trying to imply happens in high school and college; this "intensity of legend" horsesh*t. Tell me how "intense" Bobby Hurley was on defense. Or Wojo. They were REAL intense... but they still sucked. (Or, as I already pointed out once, the 100/80 v. 80/80 issue.) Wait, those were college examples - never mind that they're perfect - I'd better find pro examples before he tries to have the superior argument (the only one, in fact, you're just stating opinions with no basis in reality...) thrown out on account of being dominant. Tell me how "intense" Craig Hodges was on defense. Or Steve Kerr. How's about Steve Nash? When one part of your game so vastly over-shadows the others, it's usually a bad thing... but if Nash's offense game wasn't almost flawless, he'd be a liability too. (And was, early in his career...)

I was referring to guy's basketball.

I thought you said you played, and since you're whining like you just got your f*ckin' period, I just assumed... My bad.

the_ouskull

Eielson
1/23/2010, 09:09 PM
I'm not going to get into an argument about English class, cheeseburgers, and how much better at basketball you think you are than me despite never even seeing me play. I like college basketball better than the NBA, and no matter how hard it is, you just really need to accept that. I'm sorry it has to be this way.

the_ouskull
1/23/2010, 10:21 PM
That's all you had to say. Then it becomes an opinion, not a fact. I'm cool with opinions. Even stupid ones.

Cheeseburgers are delicious, though, and if you don't like them, then you should go back to your own country to where you ain't got to speak American.

And, as for whether or not I'm better than you, I have no idea. I'm sure you're younger than I am... but I'm just talking trash, and having fun; laughing, if you will, 'cause that's what I like to do when I'm playing.

the_ouskull

Eielson
1/24/2010, 02:22 PM
To make sure I'm not going crazy I watched an NBA team play defense last night. Only the on-ball defender really played any defense. The other four for the most part just stood around. There was a little walking, once in a while they would slowly shuffle their feet, but there was no real effort given by any of them.

Oh, and I like cheeseburgers. Yes, you are older, but I wouldn't be sure that you've eaten as many as I have.

JLEW1818
1/24/2010, 03:49 PM
suns play great D

ha

Scott D
1/24/2010, 03:55 PM
next season the NBA is doing away with dribbling....

the_ouskull
1/24/2010, 03:58 PM
Oh, and I like cheeseburgers. Yes, you are older, but I wouldn't be sure that you've eaten as many as I have.

I'm not playing "one-upper" here or anything, man, but I DID grow up on a farm. Lol. "Cheeseburgers" for me used to be going out into the pasture and saying "that one."

the_ouskull

Eielson
1/24/2010, 04:31 PM
I'm not playing "one-upper" here or anything, man, but I DID grow up on a farm. Lol. "Cheeseburgers" for me used to be going out into the pasture and saying "that one."

the_ouskull

Well, don't worry too much about being a "one-upper." Technically I grew up in the city so you have me in that regard, but we had land just outside of town where we raised steers (still do). Not to brag, but I can make cow noises with the best of 'em. We didn't eat our own steers, but we would buy one from a place and fill up our whole freezer with it. This would come out to a few hundred pounds, over half being hamburger. So while I didn't go out to the pasture and say "that one," it was actually slightly easier. I went to the garage, and grabbed it myself.

the_ouskull
1/24/2010, 09:02 PM
I would have thought that was implied in what I said as well. It's not like in the middle of the pasture I pulled a Denis Leary, "I'll carve off what I want, and ride the rest home," or anything.

the_ouskull

Eielson
1/24/2010, 11:12 PM
That's what you would do if you were a real man.

JLEW1818
1/26/2010, 04:51 PM
what do you think of Bill Simmons top players of all time? he will update it when his paper book comes out.. but here is is top 15... huge boston fan...(hates LA Lakers)

1) Michael Jordan
2) Bill Russell
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Magic Johnson
5) Larry Bird ... See More
6) Wilt Chamberlain
7) Tim Duncan
8) Jerry West
9) Kobe Bryant
10) Oscar Robertson
11) Hakeem Olajuwon
12) Moses Malone
13) Shaquille O'Neal
14) John Havlicek
15) Elgin Baylor

Eielson
1/26/2010, 05:25 PM
2) Bill Russell
6) Wilt Chamberlain

That's a load of crap.

JLEW1818
1/26/2010, 05:34 PM
my thought exactly

he dedicates an entire chapter in his book to the theory that everybody says "Bill had talent around him"

the_ouskull
1/26/2010, 05:56 PM
No, that looks about right to me. "100" looks really nice on a resume, but the guy wasn't about winning games, he was about posting stats. The only reason he led the league in assists was to prove that he could. He only wanted to win as long as he could "get his numbers" doin' it. (And we know all about Wilt's penchant for "keeping score," no?)

Besides, the "100" night was a load of crap, too. 28-32 from the line? That's like Shaq going 28-32. Not to mention that his team was completely foregoing their own offense to get Wilt the ball, starting pretty early in the 3rd quarter. (Not to mention that if someone other than Wilt shot, he'd get upset with them.)

I just can't have as much respect for someone who doesn't "get it," in regards to winning, as I can for the players above him who are five of the greatest winners in the history of the game. Greatness isn't showing off how much game you have. It's showing off how much game you're willing to sacrifice in order to win.

I think, from a winning perspective, Wilt's lucky to be ahead of Duncan, too. I mean, if pressed, I'd say that solely from a "basketball talent" point of view, it's Jordan, Wilt, and Oscar... but winning has to matter, making it Jordan, Russell, and Magic. I get that. It makes sense, and the numbers DO "add up" when it's all said and done.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
1/26/2010, 05:59 PM
your thoughts on lebron? i hate the comparing him to MJ stuff, without the rings..

Eielson
1/26/2010, 07:00 PM
Do you really think that Auerbach would have had any trouble winning all those championships if one of his 9 hall of famers would have been Wilt Chamberlain instead of Bill Russell? Sure, they pounded the ball inside a lot, but that's the smart thing to do when you have the best big man of all-time in the post. Wilt scored basically twice as many points per game as Russell for his career, and he did it with a much higher shooting percentage. Russell is made out to be the better rebounder, but that's basically just a media myth. Wilt had more rebounds, and that's even with him focusing a lot of his energy on being the team's primary scoring threat.

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 03:24 PM
from the 1991 finals till now, at least 1 of the following players has appeared in the NBA Finals: MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan.

The streak will continue this year, Lakers (Kobe), Spurs (Duncan), Cavs, (Shaq)

Scott D
2/4/2010, 05:19 PM
if ever there was a reason to want an Orlando/Boston v Nuggets finals, jlew's post is a great reason.

Eielson
2/4/2010, 06:08 PM
The Lakers, Celtic, Rockets, Pistons, Bulls, and Spurs have won 29 of the last 30 championships.

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 06:17 PM
if ever there was a reason to want an Orlando/Boston v Nuggets finals, jlew's post is a great reason.

I would be totally fine with that!

as long as dear bron bron does not win, I'm cool

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 06:19 PM
The Lakers, Celtic, Rockets, Pistons, Bulls, and Spurs have won 29 of the last 30 championships.

Miami 2005-06
Phily 82-83, they swept your lakers

great stat i would not have figured that out. u might actually be right.. is it 28 or 29?

ouleaf
2/4/2010, 06:23 PM
what do you think of Bill Simmons top players of all time? he will update it when his paper book comes out.. but here is is top 15... huge boston fan...(hates LA Lakers)

1) Michael Jordan
2) Bill Russell
3) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4) Magic Johnson
5) Larry Bird ... See More
6) Wilt Chamberlain
7) Tim Duncan
8) Jerry West
9) Kobe Bryant
10) Oscar Robertson
11) Hakeem Olajuwon
12) Moses Malone
13) Shaquille O'Neal
14) John Havlicek
15) Elgin Baylor

I might move up Kobe past Duncan and West now on that list. Now that he won a ring without Shaq. Might give John Stockton some honorable mention. You'd figure the all-time assist leader should be represented.

Surprised Cousy isn't on that list since Simmons is a Celtics Homer.

Collier11
2/4/2010, 06:25 PM
See I dont buy Shaq as one of the top 15 basketball players of all time, one of the most dominant for sure, one of the greatest athletes for sure, id put him alot farther down the list than that.

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 06:27 PM
yah, he might be a top 5 of all time, during a 5 year span.

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 06:32 PM
DUNLEAVY GONE AS HEAD COACH FOR CLIPPERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STAYS AT GM THO

Collier11
2/4/2010, 06:43 PM
yah, he might be a top 5 of all time, during a 5 year span.

There was a time when he was unstoppable for sure

Eielson
2/4/2010, 07:23 PM
Miami 2005-06
Phily 82-83, they swept your lakers

great stat i would not have figured that out. u might actually be right.. is it 28 or 29?

Apparently 28 instead of 29. Didn't see the Sixers. The Rockets only won two, so you could drop them and say that five teams won 26 of the last 30. I'm not sure that it sounds more impressive that way, though.

The crazy thing is that none of these teams won more than three in a row. LA traded back and forth with Boston for about ten years. Then they won three starting about 10 years later, and one more last year.

Boston came back and won another in 08.

The Bulls won three, the Rockets took two, and then the Bulls won another three.

The Pistons won back to back in the late 80's and then won another in 04.

The Spurs won four from 1998-1999 to 2006-2007, none of which were in a row.

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 07:25 PM
agree

Eielson
2/4/2010, 07:33 PM
yah, he might be a top 5 of all time, during a 5 year span.

He averaged over 20 points per game in the first 14 seasons, 10 rebounds a game in his first 13 seasons, and averaged over 2 blocks a game in 13 of those 14. As far as team success goes, he took three different teams to 6 different championship games, and won four of them.

For the post Magic-Bird era, there is only one guy I would even think of putting ahead of him on a list.

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 07:36 PM
so lets here your top 10 all time list

Collier11
2/4/2010, 07:42 PM
Without putting alot of thought into it, here is mine

Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Magic
Kareem
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Hakeem
Larry
Kobe

JLEW1818
2/4/2010, 07:47 PM
a true laker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFC5L2C1VNU

Eielson
2/4/2010, 07:49 PM
so lets here your top 10 all time list

How can you compare somebody like George Mikan to Shaquille O'Neal? I guess it's a nice discussion, but there is no way of really making the comparison between two guys who played in different time periods.

Collier11
2/4/2010, 07:54 PM
well, you look at the impact the player had on their teams success as well as the game itself I suppose, then you look at what kind of numbers they put up, thats about the only way.

I think a bunch of the greats from a long time ago couldnt play in the game today and still be great

Scott D
2/5/2010, 02:36 AM
I bet Wilton Norman Chamberlain would still be a dominant center.

Collier11
2/5/2010, 02:36 AM
Yea I def think he would be

Scott D
2/5/2010, 02:38 AM
The biggest "what if" I can think of with the NBA, is Bernard King.

Collier11
2/5/2010, 02:43 AM
how about Len Bias

Scott D
2/5/2010, 02:44 AM
Two totally different scenarios there. One lost his life doing something stupid. The other was one of the smoothest small forwards in the NBA who basically lost his career in it's prime to knee injuries.

Scott D
2/5/2010, 02:45 AM
And none of this current crop of centers could stop Moses Malone.

Collier11
2/5/2010, 02:46 AM
What has happened to the big man in college or pro bball?

Scott D
2/5/2010, 03:02 AM
the 3 point line.

Collier11
2/5/2010, 03:16 AM
Surely thats not why they have all pretty much disappeared

Scott D
2/5/2010, 12:28 PM
look at how many guys that technically qualify as being centers play facing the basket on offense, and how many of them like to shoot the ball from 18+' out. The low post game is a fine art, and it's nowhere near as flashy as being able to shoot from outside.

Collier11
2/5/2010, 12:42 PM
Just look at rec basketball, how many guys play down low and how many jack up threes, lol

the_ouskull
2/5/2010, 06:08 PM
I'll bite...

1) Jordan
2) Russell - The Lord of the Rings
3) Bird
4) Magic
5) Kareem
6) Wilt Chamberlain
7) Tim Duncan
8) Oscar Robertson
9) Hakeem Olajuwon
10) I'm going to keep this one blank as a rotating spot - filled with whoever I'm "feeling" the most at the time, currently between Shaq, Barkley, Malone, LeBron's potential, and Robert Horry. (Yeah, I said it. There's not a "real" way to reward the guy, so I use my semi-justifiable list to do it.)

(..and imagine how much it would suck being Robert Horry. No woman that knows anything about sports will ever marry you, because she already knows that you have two large ice cubes where your testicles should be. That's gotta be a tough life.)

the_ouskull

Eielson
2/5/2010, 07:07 PM
Duncan over Shaq. Explain!

I don't have any problems with the list other than Wilt/Russell and Duncan over Shaq.

JLEW1818
2/5/2010, 08:42 PM
Bird over Magic? .....

Barkley no chance top 10.. notice the other 9 have multiple rings.

If Bron Bron never played basketball again he would not be top 10.. that is crazy.. he does not deserve to be top 20 right now. He has zero rings, and zero Finals wins. I think people will be surprised when he turns 30 and starts going downhill fast.


you gotta have at least 1 ring to be in the top 10. it will be that way for eternity

Collier11
2/5/2010, 08:58 PM
Duncan was a better basketball player, period

JLEW1818
2/5/2010, 09:00 PM
Mr. Fundamentals!

Eielson
2/6/2010, 12:19 AM
Bird over Magic? .....

Barkley no chance top 10.. notice the other 9 have multiple rings.

If Bron Bron never played basketball again he would not be top 10.. that is crazy.. he does not deserve to be top 20 right now. He has zero rings, and zero Finals wins. I think people will be surprised when he turns 30 and starts going downhill fast.


you gotta have at least 1 ring to be in the top 10. it will be that way for eternity

No, you don't have to have rings to be considered one of the all-time best players, and you never have. It's not "top ten players with rings list," it's "top ten players list." I mean, is KG any better of a player now that he went to Boston and won one? He was in a terrible situation, and when he did have a little talent, he had to compete with the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. We're not rating teams, we're rating players.

JLEW1818
2/6/2010, 12:23 AM
you can't be top 10 without a ring

KG is not top 10, and yes he gets moved up b/c he finally won a ring.

Just like Ray Allen is a 100% lock for the hall of fame now.

Eielson
2/6/2010, 01:32 AM
KG is not top 10, and yes he gets moved up b/c he finally won a ring.

See, that's why it doesn't make any sense. He moved up for joining with two other aging superstars and winning a ring? He's not any better of a player for what he did in Boston.

Collier11
2/6/2010, 02:16 AM
No, you don't have to have rings to be considered one of the all-time best players, and you never have. It's not "top ten players with rings list," it's "top ten players list." I mean, is KG any better of a player now that he went to Boston and won one? He was in a terrible situation, and when he did have a little talent, he had to compete with the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. We're not rating teams, we're rating players.

If you cant win a ring, you shouldnt be top 10

Eielson
2/6/2010, 02:19 AM
If you cant win a ring, you shouldnt be top 10

Once again, this is about the best player, not about the best team.

Collier11
2/6/2010, 02:23 AM
and the best players win a ring, Is Dan Marino a top 10 QB all time, of course, is he a top 10 NFL player of all time, NOPE

Eielson
2/6/2010, 10:33 AM
and the best players win a ring, Is Dan Marino a top 10 QB all time, of course, is he a top 10 NFL player of all time, NOPE

The best TEAMS win rings. Players don't win rings. When is the last time one player won the NBA Title without the help of some great teammates?

Collier11
2/6/2010, 01:53 PM
so you would put Marino ahead of say, Tom Brady who has 3 rings and good stats while Marino just has crazy good stats

Eielson
2/6/2010, 02:46 PM
I have no idea who I'd put in the top 10. There are a more than 10 starting positions just on offense, so it's extremely hard. I would definitely consider Barry Sanders and Dick Butkus in my top 10, though.

Collier11
2/6/2010, 02:48 PM
Fair or not, QB is the one position in football that people care about rings in relation to their greatness

JLEW1818
2/6/2010, 07:15 PM
I'd say football is a little different. In basketball you can controle the game on both ends when it counts, in a matter of seconds. Yes getting a ring takes a good team. But it's the super stars job to win with what he has. You have to be the main reason why your team won the ring.