Tell Me Why I'm Wrong: IV

[Sooner04]

I can't pinpoint the exact moment it happened, all I know is that I've stepped across that line and I don't think there's any going back. It happened sometime in the past couple of years, but it happened. I think it's a good thing, others may not, but it's definitely who I am from here on out. I think....

I stand before you uninformed. Yes, uninformed. Completely, totally uninformed. I have no clue what's going on. When it comes to the goings-on of our government (bailout, pork, healthcare, energy) I have not one single, solitary clue. I don't know if it was when the republicans got mad at Clinton or when the democrats got mad at Bush or when the republicans got mad at Obama. It really doesn't matter. Somewhere on the carousel of failure I hopped off the pony and left the ride behind.

And I think I'm better for it.

I've been posting on this website since the Monday after 63-14. I've seen political threads come and political threads go, and along the way I realized that no argument on here is going to sway anybody on any issue. People will argue until they're blue in the face and say things they'll regret in a minute or two, but time and time again they come right back to certain issues they're passionate about and dance the dance all over again.

It just isn't for me. I'll come home from work and the wife will be ranting and raving about something Obama did or said today. The conversation goes like this:

Mrs. 04: Can you believe Obama did that?
04: Did what?
Mrs. 04: [insert 45 seconds of the theme from Excitebike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30im_ZzhdcM)].......doesn't that bother you?
04: No, I don't care.

Over and over that happens. She'll wind herself into a blinding rage defending Bush or berating Obama and nothing changes. She'll love the next Republican and hate the next Democrat. When did this polarity permeate the American people? I don't know, but it wore me out enough to the point that now I'm just numb.

I have a few things I care about. I hate abortion. I don't know how anybody could ever do that, but it's not on my conscience. I'm not going to kill something I created. But I also know I'm not going to sway someone who's Pro-Choice. That's their problem, not mine.

I love my family. I love the Sooners. I love the Padres. I love the Vikings. I loved the Supersonics. I love to bowl. I care about those things. I'll talk to you about those things. I do not watch the news. I am completely uninformed on what some consider the issues of the day. I know I'm going to be taxed. I know the government will get my money one way or the other.

This is the existence I've created for myself. I'm not throwing remotes at my television over the latest bailout or the newest tax. No, I'm throwing my remote at the TV when Adrian Peterson fumbles or Willie Warren sulks. A Landry Jones INT raises my blood pressure 500x more than any flippant remark Harry Reid could ever make.

So, answer me this: why is this wrong? Why am I wrong for shuffling through this life not worrying about politics and the news of the day? Why am I wrong for being uninformed?

[SunnySooner]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke

I understand what you're saying. It's very frustrating and makes you feel helpless. But you can vote. And to do that, you need to be somewhat informed on issues and the stances of the politicians involved. If everyone sticks their heads in the sand, then the bad guys get free rein. Not good.

It comes down to balance. I don't let every little thing freak me out, but I try to know a little of what's going on, especially during elections, because voting is really the only even small way my voice is heard at all.

[LilSooner]

Because your not wrong. Hell I have a degree in political science and I have no clue as to what in the blue hell our government is doing, and at this point in the game I think I will just continue to be an ostrich and keep my head in the sand.

[TUSooner]

I can't pinpoint the exact moment it happened, all I know is that I've stepped across that line and I don't think there's any going back. It happened sometime in the past couple of years, but it happened. I think it's a good thing, others may not, but it's definitely who I am from here on out. I think....

I stand before you uninformed. Yes, uninformed. Completely, totally uninformed. I have no clue what's going on. When it comes to the goings-on of our government (bailout, pork, healthcare, energy) I have not one single, solitary clue. I don't know if it was when the republicans got mad at Clinton or when the democrats got mad at Bush or when the republicans got mad at Obama. It really doesn't matter. Somewhere on the carousel of failure I hopped off the pony and left the ride behind.

And I think I'm better for it.
.....

I love my family. I love the Sooners. I love the Padres. I love the Vikings. I loved the Supersonics. I love to bowl. I care about those things. I'll talk to you about those things. I do not watch the news. I am completely uninformed on what some consider the issues of the day. I know I'm going to be taxed. I know the government will get my money one way or the other.

This is the existence I've created for myself. I'm not throwing remotes at my television over the latest bailout or the newest tax. No, I'm throwing my remote at the TV when Adrian Peterson fumbles or Willie Warren sulks. A Landry Jones INT raises my blood pressure 500x more than any flippant remark Harry Reid could ever make.

So, answer me this: why is this wrong? Why am I wrong for shuffling through this life not worrying about politics and the news of the day? Why am I wrong for being uninformed?

I call your condition being in internal exile. (It's a term the dissidents in Commie lands used to use when they withdrew from their corrupt and oppressive society.) Although I will gladly and foolishly throw my opinions into the blender around here when I detect some really objectionable BS or mindless cant, I am basically in internal exile with you. I used to read the editorial page and listen to Rush just to find something to be mad and indignant about. Now I know there's not a heck of a lot I can do about anything as far as politics and government and such, except vote and do my job. I realize most of the crapola other people rant about is ultimately trivial, and I have better things to do with my time.

[Oldnslo]

Count me in. Been that way since I was a prosecutor, and I saw firsthand how the "news" bore little relationship to the "facts". Or the Truth.

And I don't know how everything got so polarized. Or when opinion became held with the force of religion.

But, I don't like it. So I choose not to participate.

[C&CDean]

Brando,

Spot. ****ing. On.

Now I will get involved with the silliness here because it entertains me in an obscene silly way, but I don't watch any Fox/MSNBC/NBC/ETC. ever, and catch the local news maybe once a week or so at 10.

Like you, I have my hot-button issues. Abortion. Gun control. Lazy **********s who want handouts. Government interference in **** that only affects me personally.

I can promise you this. I have a lot less stress than these guys on here who wallow in all that "news" 24/7 and get all frothed up over every single thing somebody on "the other side" says/does. I don't give a **** about it, and like you, I'm better for it.

Salute.

[the_ouskull]

I think that it's wrong to be uninformed, yes... but it's even more wrong to be MIS-informed, which is what the 24-hour news cycle REALLY lends itself to.

Aside from her participation IN them, is Sarah Palin really more qualified to discuss politics than any other warm body; than you or I? Perhaps. Maybe when you're in the public eye all of the time, some of what you say gets taken out of context.

But the context of some of these quotes is completely immaterial to the fact that someone who was a few hundred thousand **** Hunters away from the second most powerful position in the U.S. actually said them...

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm

To hear some people tell it, President George W. Bush is a pretty smart guy. But to hear him try to tell it is painful at best, and horribly disconcerting more often than not.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/georgewbush/a/top10bushisms.htm

These are people of power in our country, and they are dumb as sh*t. Is it really any wonder that the more intelligent members of our society are gradually shying away from political discussions? I think not. It's like trying to argue with someone on the Sports Urinal. If they yell their point louder than you do, and then cut you off before you rebut, then they win.

That's not politics. It's entertainment... much in the same vein that reality television is "entertainment," but still. Because they have to find something to report on for 24 hours straight, we've gotten more and more of the "talking head" culture from news stations. That's great when you're discussing something arbitrary like sports, or music. But when you're discussing politics, you are LITERALLY discussing people's lives! This isn't a "did Mac take steriods, should be he in the HoF" argument. It's a "why did the President lie to us" argument, and it's being presented to us on a shiny new platter.

Rush. Ann Coulter. FOX "news." Their only purpose is to try to tell the idiots that now watch their shows and read their books, etc.. how to think. Why? Because the people that their flashy new shows are attracting aren't able to think for themselves.

I am.

That's why I don't watch any of that sh*t. I'd rather be taken for an ignorant redneck than mistaken for someone who has to listen to Rush or watch FOX to get my information; to be told what to think, and who to disagree with.

-----

"...not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"

-- Alaskan State Senate President, and female Republican, Lyda Green on Sarah Palin.

When the people who should be getting your back are the ones calling you out, and the rest of the political world, and its "news" sources (yeah, you, FOX... YOU f'in' hired her...) are the ones ignoring the warning signs... Yeah, we as a country are getting what we deserve for continuing to support parties that put candidates like Bush, like Palin, et al... at the forefront, and ignoring people that actually make a little bit of sense, like a Ron Paul. H*ll, even Ross Perot made more sense than most of these trained chimps I see on the alleged news nowadays, flinging "poo" at each other and calling it a "political discussion."

It's not that people of our generation are disenfranchised with politics, Brandon, it's that we haven't had any politicians worth a sh*t to look up to. The last two decent Presidents I can think of are Reagan, and first-term Clinton. Obama showed promise. Even (early) Bush showed some promise. (The elder, not the younger...) But, eventually, the culture that reality TV and the internet have helped create tears down politicians too. By treating them like celebrities (Palin and Obama, notably) instead of elected officials and politicians, we're destroying their credibility, within their own offices, and outside of our country as well.

The U.S. is just as big a joke outside of our borders as it is inside them... and that's what saddens me the most. We're not bad*ss anymore. We're what happens when you give the wrong people the right freedoms for the wrong reasons. The p*ssification of this country is almost complete. At this point, I want to see someone like Glenn Beck run for office. H*ll, let the Governator have a shot at the Oval Office, even. Why not? We've f*cked over everything else that was at one point sacred in this country... why not bend that rule too...?

I have to go. I've worked myself up a bit... It's time to go shoot 1000 free throws to try to calm down. Sorry, all.

the_ouskull

[C&CDean]

So what you're saying Danny is that you're a hopeless liberal.

[tidalmouse]

That attitude and a few Prescriptions and you'll be Fine. :pop:

[NormanPride]

As long as you vote every time you have the opportunity, and educate yourself sufficiently when you do, I have no problems with not caring what the politicos of the world are doing.

Our job as citizens is to elect the proper people to handle things. If you feel the calling to get involved and try to better the world, then wonderful. But otherwise, just make sure you're not electing another jackass.

This, however, is where I think a lot of people fail. They don't care AND they vote crappy (or not at all). They show up, remember that someone at work told them Obama is a democrat and their granddad told them once that democrats is the debbil so it's time to vote like a pirate. R! What should have happened is this: Read the damn paper. They actually print summaries on each of the local candidates and will do their best to not be liberal about the bigger elections. Of course, anything not in suspenders and plowing a farm while drinking natty lite and shooting things is too liberal for most in Oklahoma.

In summary: when it's time to vote, vote. And make sure you don't vote in a thieving jackass. Otherwise, you're cool doing whatever.

[Sooner04]

Now that Skull is off shooting free throws it's too late to tell him that he's proven my point perfectly. What we hold dear is probably something that horrified those who loved our country 150 years ago and so on and so forth.

People get worked up when Obama is bashed. People get worked up when Palin is bashed. This network said this about this guy! Oh no! That network said that about that guy! Box it up, we're done! I'm moving back to Great Britain. This grand experiment is a failure.

Hogwarts! If I'm around the house at night I'll turn on my local news just in time to catch the weather. I'll listen for some OU BBall notes and, after that, I'm done. I keep everything else at arm's length. I'm not going to be so petty that I can't watch Sunday Night Football because that meanie, Keith Olbermann, is on there. As they say on the Monday Night Football pre-game show, "COME ON, MAN!"

TUSooner says I've put myself into "Internal Exile". That sounds good. Hell, it may be right, but I think the main problem here is I'm selfish. I'm a relentless pursuer of happiness. If something infuriates me, I'm through with it. Life's too short to spend it worrying about something you have no control over. That's why I quit watching OU women's basketball: too many turnovers. That's why I quit watching the news: too much crap.

I wrapped myself in the tight, little blanket I call my world and I turned out the light. It pains me to see loved ones worrying to death over what goes on in Washington. My Dad will start griping about Obama and I'll wonder why he, a huge Rams fan, and I don't talk about Jim Everett and Flipper Anderson anymore. It's sad. Life is about more than party lines, taxes and the next election.

Internal Exile. I like it. When's the next OU BBall game?

EDIT: And I do vote, even though I think voting in Oklahoma is a lost cause. But that's a whole other topic for another time. But I DO vote. Always! It's our greatest responsibility and our most sacred treasure as citizens.

[1890MilesToNorman]

Until the farmers/factory workers/store clerks/small business owners/librarians begin to run for office and win it will not change. Start local and don't take any ****, you never know what may happen.

Until then, exercise your right to keep and bear arms and wait for the call. One if by ? two if by ?, that will be decided later.

I ain't ****tin you either, there are millions who feel the same way.

[C&CDean]

I'm even starting to get kinda "meh" on the whole voting issue too.

Maybe I'm getting crusty, but seriously, when there's a very large percentage of folks out there who can't spell "Obama" voting, and another very large percentage of folks who vote for somebody because of what he is, not who he is I oftentimes think "who the **** cares?"

Like the guy from Maine says until the real people start running and winning, we're pretty much ****ed. Something has gotta change where it isn't only about $$ and a pretty face and the ability to talk so smoove you could sell **** to a cow. And like he says, in the meantime, keep your guns close.

[TopDawg]

When did this polarity permeate the American people? I don't know, but it wore me out enough to the point that now I'm just numb.

Hasn't it always been there and didn't it exist elsewhere long before America was even an idea? I think a big difference today is that technology has given everybody and their dog the ability to mass-communicate their message thereby making the stupidity even more rampant.

I don't have a problem with people being uninformed as long as they realize they are uninformed. And I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me as long as they realize they are wrong.

[OUHOMER]

I think this is whats wrong with our government. People have checked out of the process.

Can't say I blame them, but its the only way we can keep the gov in check, otherwise the bad guy win.

They hope you check out, they win

[StoopTroup]

Shouldn't this thread have been : Tell Me Why I'm Wrong: OIV?

[picasso]

Hey Skull, I'm no Palin fan but she's way more qualified to talk politics on TV than you or I. And if she wasn't qualified to be President then how in the **** was Obama?

And one more thing about folks who listen to talk radio. Most of them connect to Limbo or others because they share the same views as they do. Maybe not on all topics but they find some sort of common ground.

That's more of the case than say some great redneck contingent following every word they say.

[TUSooner]

I will get involved with the silliness here because it entertains me in an obscene silly way...

That made me laugh; it's too true.

[Half a Hundred]

You're not wrong for that at all. Just don't complain when they start enacting policy contrary to your interests, that's all. By interests, I mean economic interests (you can't effectively legislate morality).

[Collier11]

I can't pinpoint the exact moment it happened, all I know is that I've stepped across that line and I don't think there's any going back. It happened sometime in the past couple of years, but it happened. I think it's a good thing, others may not, but it's definitely who I am from here on out. I think....

I stand before you uninformed. Yes, uninformed. Completely, totally uninformed. I have no clue what's going on. When it comes to the goings-on of our government (bailout, pork, healthcare, energy) I have not one single, solitary clue. I don't know if it was when the republicans got mad at Clinton or when the democrats got mad at Bush or when the republicans got mad at Obama. It really doesn't matter. Somewhere on the carousel of failure I hopped off the pony and left the ride behind.

And I think I'm better for it.

I've been posting on this website since the Monday after 63-14. I've seen political threads come and political threads go, and along the way I realized that no argument on here is going to sway anybody on any issue. People will argue until they're blue in the face and say things they'll regret in a minute or two, but time and time again they come right back to certain issues they're passionate about and dance the dance all over again.

It just isn't for me. I'll come home from work and the wife will be ranting and raving about something Obama did or said today. The conversation goes like this:

Mrs. 04: Can you believe Obama did that?
04: Did what?
Mrs. 04: [insert 45 seconds of the theme from Excitebike (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30im_ZzhdcM)].......doesn't that bother you?
04: No, I don't care.

Over and over that happens. She'll wind herself into a blinding rage defending Bush or berating Obama and nothing changes. She'll love the next Republican and hate the next Democrat. When did this polarity permeate the American people? I don't know, but it wore me out enough to the point that now I'm just numb.

I have a few things I care about. I hate abortion. I don't know how anybody could ever do that, but it's not on my conscience. I'm not going to kill something I created. But I also know I'm not going to sway someone who's Pro-Choice. That's their problem, not mine.

I love my family. I love the Sooners. I love the Padres. I love the Vikings. I loved the Supersonics. I love to bowl. I care about those things. I'll talk to you about those things. I do not watch the news. I am completely uninformed on what some consider the issues of the day. I know I'm going to be taxed. I know the government will get my money one way or the other.

This is the existence I've created for myself. I'm not throwing remotes at my television over the latest bailout or the newest tax. No, I'm throwing my remote at the TV when Adrian Peterson fumbles or Willie Warren sulks. A Landry Jones INT raises my blood pressure 500x more than any flippant remark Harry Reid could ever make.

So, answer me this: why is this wrong? Why am I wrong for shuffling through this life not worrying about politics and the news of the day? Why am I wrong for being uninformed?

I would simply say that the current state of our country mixed with the new generation of selfishness have caused alot of people to just not care anymore...not right or wrong, just the way it is IMHO

[Boomer Mooner]

I think SunnySooner answered your question pretty well. Stay informed enough to cast an intelligent vote. You don't have to be as passionate about politics as you are about the things you love, but you should pay enough attention to know who you want to vote for.

Right now is a really good time to be paying attention to what is going on.

[JohnnyMack]

I guess I would ask what's more important. Willie Warren's 3PT shooting percentage or what's contained in the health care reform presented by the senate?

[Sooner04]

I guess I would ask what's more important. Willie Warren's 3PT shooting percentage or what's contained in the health care reform presented by the senate?
I can cheer Willie Warren for making a three. I have no control over what those yahoos vote on in the Senate.

They can pass it. They can screw it up. I'm powerless to stop it.

But I can cheer for Willie Warren.

[RacerX]

I can cheer Willie Warren for making a three. I have no control over what those yahoos vote on in the Senate.

They can pass it. They can screw it up. I'm powerless to stop it.

But I can cheer for Willie Warren.

Ding, ding, ding.

To sit around and pontificate/argue over a health care bill that we have no control over is nothing but mental masturbation.

[Crucifax Autumn]

You're not wrong for that at all. Just don't complain when they start enacting policy contrary to your interests, that's all. By interests, I mean economic interests (you can't effectively legislate morality).

Tell that to the women in georgia and texass that have been arrested and convicted for having dildo parties.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Growing up, I had to watch the news..We only had 3 channels so that meant 5, 530, 6, and 10 was news time...mostly repeats of the same stuff....But I could go to school as a 7,8, or 9 year old and discuss the issues of the day, but the only point of view I had was whatever I heard on the news..

So I became a reader. But, then I realized that it was basically the same thing. My only POV was whatever the writer I read had said in his article.

I've learned the balance of being an educated voter without FOX News or CNN. I learn about the issues important to me and then make a decision.

I want to live a long life, so I've learned not to obsess over the things I have no control over.

[OUDoc]

I can cheer Willie Warren for making a three. I have no control over what those yahoos vote on in the Senate.

They can pass it. They can screw it up. I'm powerless to stop it.

But I can cheer for Willie Warren.
I know RacerX quoted it too but this is exactly it.
The politicians are liars and cheaters.
All of them.
They play games with my money and there is little I can do about it. Sure, I can vote one out of office, but another POS will take his place. I accept that this is going to happen with or without my approval. My blood pressure is better for it.

Day to day, what has changed due to Democrats or Republicans being in charge? Nothing. I don't buy that this recession has anything to do with one single party. It's both parties. They can't find a way to work together and make America better. They're like spoiled 6 year olds on a playground, trying to blame everyone else for their problems. It's old and I'm tired of it and I won't pay attention to them any more.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Wow..Doc..I've never seen you that angry

[Sooner04]

I want to live a long life, so I've learned not to obsess over the things I have no control over.
Bingo.

Day to day, what has changed due to Democrats or Republicans being in charge? Nothing.
Bingo again.

[OhU1]

It's like trying to argue with someone on the Sports Urinal. If they yell their point louder than you do, and then cut you off before you rebut, then they win.

^^^this. The delivery of the message is more important than the content. My folks tend to have Fox on. After about 15 minutes of being exposed to one of those round table discussion shows they frequently have I feel my blood pressure starting to rise. Essentially 8 people are in a competition to outshout the other to get their sound bite in before someone else cuts them off. It's televised attention deficit disorder. The only thing missing is MTV "video game" style production consisting of a constantly shifting and moving camera shot where the picture does not stay still for more than 2 seconds.

[TopDawg]

I want to live a long life, so I've learned not to obsess over the things I have no control over.


Bingo.

This is part of the reason that my interest in sports has waned as of late. Why obsess over the things I have no control over? The USC debacle started me down that path. The Robbery in Eugene sealed the deal. But lately it's gone even further. I went on a mission trip to Kenya last year and now I have a kid on the way. My obsession with sports had already ended, but now they are really plummeting on my list of priorities. There is so much good stuff that I can do if I redirect that energy and those resources elsewhere and I do have control (at least more control) over those types of things.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

This is part of the reason that my interest in sports has waned as of late. Why obsess over the things I have no control over? The USC debacle started me down that path. The Robbery in Eugene sealed the deal. But lately it's gone even further. I went on a mission trip to Kenya last year and now I have a kid on the way. My obsession with sports had already ended, but now they are really plummeting on my list of priorities. There is so much good stuff that I can do if I redirect that energy and those resources elsewhere and I do have control (at least more control) over those types of things.

Great post...pretty much on line with the way things went for me, except my trip to Kenya happens hopefully this year

[TopDawg]

Really? That's awesome. I expected it to make an impact, but I underestimated it. It was an incredible experience.

[Frozen Sooner]

I call your condition being in internal exile. (It's a term the dissidents in Commie lands used to use when they withdrew from their corrupt and oppressive society.) Although I will gladly and foolishly throw my opinions into the blender around here when I detect some really objectionable BS or mindless cant, I am basically in internal exile with you. I used to read the editorial page and listen to Rush just to find something to be mad and indignant about. Now I know there's not a heck of a lot I can do about anything as far as politics and government and such, except vote and do my job. I realize most of the crapola other people rant about is ultimately trivial, and I have better things to do with my time.

I understand the frustration you feel with the political process. However, comparing anyone's situation in the United States to what happened in the Eastern Bloc is borderline ridiculous. Sure, some of the dissidents in Soviet Russia withdrew from political activism as a form of protest. Then again, we have something they didn't-an explicit guarantee that we CAN participate in the political process without fear of prison, torture, or death.

Which isn't to say I don't sympathize. In 2004, I felt the same way: I seriously considered just keeping out of it entirely and keeping my head down. Instead, I found some candidates I felt like I could believe in and campaigned for them. All of 'em won, and a couple of them are really doing a good job in my opinion. One of them was the first Democrat to win that state district ever, and it looks like he's going to be re-elected after doing a great job representing the district in Juneau. Another defeated a man pronounced a felon in a court of law (have to be careful, Stevens was never technically convicted and the charges have now been dropped) by fewer than 1,000 votes and shoved him out of a Senate seat he'd held longer than any Republican ever had held ANY Senate seat-and as near as I can tell, Senator Begich is doing a bang-up job.

[NormanPride]

I keep sports in my life because it's the only kind of drama that I like. Will the shot go in? Will the defense hold on 4th down? You have no control, but in the end none of it matters, so it's okay. I kind of like that feeling of mild anxiety. You just have to keep it at arms length.

As for selfishness driving the "current generation" checking out on all things political, I think that's hogwash. How many of the baby boomers were active in politics when they were young? Being a hippie doesn't count. Plus, you see old farts like Doc and Dean checking out as well (;)) and they're most certainly not selfish. Is it selfish to get fed up with being spoon-fed crap that is supposed to make you mad and scared? If you're constantly bombarded with hateful and angry messages, then it's a natural reaction to shut them out eventually.

[BermudaSooner]

EDIT: And I do vote, even though I think voting in Oklahoma is a lost cause. But that's a whole other topic for another time. But I DO vote. Always! It's our greatest responsibility and our most sacred treasure as citizens.

How do you know who to vote for if you don't pay attention?

Doesn't things like this **** you off:

1. You can no longer sell toys at a garage sale, and if you donate any used toys to goodwill or any other charity, they have to throw them away. Why? Because Mattel and Hasbro wrote legislation on testing for toys. Why would they do that? In the name of safety? Hell no, there is no risk to kids for injesting lead from toys, but the new testing standards weren't safety based, they were designed to push out the little guys. Mattel and Hasbro have testing facilities (and were excluded from having to do 3rd party testing). The result is that poor kids can no longer get hand me down toys legally, and that small toy manufacturers are basically out of business.

2. Do you care how much you have to pay for your mortgage?

3. Would you rather decide who or what causes you want to give your money to (or not at all), or would you rather the gubment decide?

4. Do you care if someone takes your right to own a gun away?

5. Do you care that your kids will likely not have as good of a life as you? We are on an unsustainable pace, with more entitlements on the way. We are becoming a country of "I'm owed that" rather than "I'm proud that I worked for and earned this."

Should you care, **** yes you should care.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Really? That's awesome. I expected it to make an impact, but I underestimated it. It was an incredible experience.

Cool..Our chuch has a bible school set up there as well as some nurses that make regular trips...Hopefully I will get to attend the graduation ceremony this year as well as do some other things..One lady rides a bike 4 hours to get to the school..

Things like that seem to have overtaken my interest

[stoops the eternal pimp]

How do you know who to vote for if you don't pay attention?

Doesn't things like this **** you off:

1. You can no longer sell toys at a garage sale, and if you donate any used toys to goodwill or any other charity, they have to throw them away. Why? Because Mattel and Hasbro wrote legislation on testing for toys. Why would they do that? In the name of safety? Hell no, there is no risk to kids for injesting lead from toys, but the new testing standards weren't safety based, they were designed to push out the little guys. Mattel and Hasbro have testing facilities (and were excluded from having to do 3rd party testing). The result is that poor kids can no longer get hand me down toys legally, and that small toy manufacturers are basically out of business.

2. Do you care how much you have to pay for your mortgage?

3. Would you rather decide who or what causes you want to give your money to (or not at all), or would you rather the gubment decide?

4. Do you care if someone takes your right to own a gun away?

5. Do you care that your kids will likely not have as good of a life as you? We are on an unsustainable pace, with more entitlements on the way. We are becoming a country of "I'm owed that" rather than "I'm proud that I worked for and earned this."

Should you care, **** yes you should care.

I don't think its a matter of caring or not caring if I read his post right..its a matter of information and who he is receiving it from...

I care about those things, but at the same time, I don't need ridiculous amounts of rumors, lies, and bull**** media people to convince me to..and I can look at a voting record and see where the people I vote for stand on those issues.

[the_ouskull]

^^^this. The delivery of the message is more important than the content.

Yeah, tell me about it. I wrote this blog (see below) about eight years ago, when I was still writing for NewsOK.com.

-----

What has communication become?

I saw a cartoon recently that depicted a woman talking on a telephone. The caption reads, "Richard, we need to talk. I'll e-mail you."

Now, at the risk of sounding like a whiny Gen X'er or some melodramatic Emo kid, I feel that THAT is what communication has become. The premium used to be on the message, but nowadays, it seems that through the evolution (de-evolution?) of society, and the evolution of technology, the message is now riding shotgun while the method of delivery is in the driver's seat.

Instant Messages. E-Mail. Pagers. Cell Phones. Two-Ways. Video Phones. Webcams. All of these are methods of communication. All of these are relatively new to our society. Why is it that we, as an intelligent society, have more ways to communicate with one another than have EVER been at our disposal, yet, for some reason, it seems as if nobody has anything to say? Nobody is even able to talk. The increased emphasis on communications has seemingly taken away people's abilities to do it effectively. Even some of our highest ranked elected officials (ahem) can barely form a coherent sentence at times... (And let's not get me started on the made-up words.)

It used to be that, when you got somebody's attention, be it via land-line telephone, or the good, old-fashioned way, a hand-written letter and stamp, you made your message count. Now we have people who are more concerned with the appearance of their personalized Voice Stream phone cover than the actual messages that they send and receive through it. Our bosses are often our peers with more tenure. Our lives and the essence of our being have been downsized into a ZIP file slice of life.

Can you honestly describe yourself in 250 words or less? (Please keep in mind that this: "I M DA 1 4 U" is not a sentence... It's the name of a f*cking Prince song...) Can you REALLY have a decent conversation in less than a minute so that your partner doesn't get charged for the incoming call?

Is it that the message no longer matters or is it that nobody any longer has anything worth saying and worth listening to? Maybe it's that so many people are afraid of everybody else figuring out that they have nothing to say that they play dress-up with their message to make it seem like it has substance, no? After all, God forbid people stop talking just because they're out of sh*t to say... especially when they can say it through their brand-new PDA.

"The things you own end up owning you."
-- Fight Club

-----

the_ouskull

[Sooner04]

How do you know who to vote for if you don't pay attention?

Doesn't things like this **** you off:

1. You can no longer sell toys at a garage sale, and if you donate any used toys to goodwill or any other charity, they have to throw them away. Why? Because Mattel and Hasbro wrote legislation on testing for toys. Why would they do that? In the name of safety? Hell no, there is no risk to kids for injesting lead from toys, but the new testing standards weren't safety based, they were designed to push out the little guys. Mattel and Hasbro have testing facilities (and were excluded from having to do 3rd party testing). The result is that poor kids can no longer get hand me down toys legally, and that small toy manufacturers are basically out of business.

2. Do you care how much you have to pay for your mortgage?

3. Would you rather decide who or what causes you want to give your money to (or not at all), or would you rather the gubment decide?

4. Do you care if someone takes your right to own a gun away?

5. Do you care that your kids will likely not have as good of a life as you? We are on an unsustainable pace, with more entitlements on the way. We are becoming a country of "I'm owed that" rather than "I'm proud that I worked for and earned this."

Should you care, **** yes you should care.
Bold words from the island of Bermuda. I really don't care what goes on there either.

I take a good, long look at my local candidates (county offices, etc.) and vote accordingly. For the federal elections, I know my district will go to the republican candidate one nano second after the polls close so I don't worry about those too much.


In all seriousness, here we go:

1. I don't care.

2. My mortgage payment is fine. I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford.

3. I decided long ago the government would get my money regardless of who controls what.

4. I don't own a gun.

5. This country has been going to hell for 150 years. That's what everybody says. Is it true? I doubt it. We're the greatest country on Earth, regardless of who's in charge.

[Veritas]

To sit around and pontificate/argue over a health care bill that we have no control over is nothing but mental masturbation.
Ya know, people always use that phrase like it's a bad thing. But you know, I happen to be a pretty big fan of normal masturbation, so when people say that I'm like "hell, yeah!"

[NormanPride]

The cleanup is tough, though.

[BermudaSooner]

Bold words from the island of Bermuda. I really don't care what goes on there either.

I take a good, long look at my local candidates (county offices, etc.) and vote accordingly. For the federal elections, I know my district will go to the republican candidate one nano second after the polls close so I don't worry about those too much.


In all seriousness, here we go:

1. I don't care.

2. My mortgage payment is fine. I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford.

3. I decided long ago the government would get my money regardless of who controls what.

4. I don't own a gun.

5. This country has been going to hell for 150 years. That's what everybody says. Is it true? I doubt it. We're the greatest country on Earth, regardless of who's in charge.

Well those words were from Edmond (I moved back 2 years ago).

1. OK, not caring about toys, but this is just a small example. This goes on constantly, with more "regulations" in the name of safety or or whatever that are really a croney capitalism.

2. Is your mortgage payment variable in any way? Do you care that mortgage rates for your kids will likely be much much higher than what you're paying now? What about selling and buying a new house at some point in the future? Does your income have anything to do with the housing market (by the way, all of our incomes have at least some relationship here)?

3. What if the gubment takes more of it? What if the gubment gave back some and let you do what you want with it? Right now the average American works from Jan through May to pay taxes, that could easily be Jan through August or Sept at some not too distant point in the future. Is that not meaningful?

4. I'm not a gun guy either, but the invading of our lives and the government taking away freedoms doesn't concern you?

5. It will all just get better, someone will fix it. That's the attitude that let us get here.

[JohnnyMack]

Sports and entertainment are exactly that. Our culture has allowed them to take on a superficial level of importance in our daily lives. I think it's all part of a vast conspiracy on the part of big business to desensitize us to the more important goings on in the dark and shady places where policy is implemented. But I'm probably crazy. You all just go buy a copy of People magazine and get ready for the next "big game" that's taking place this weekend.

[TopDawg]

Cool..Our chuch has a bible school set up there as well as some nurses that make regular trips...Hopefully I will get to attend the graduation ceremony this year as well as do some other things..One lady rides a bike 4 hours to get to the school..

Things like that seem to have overtaken my interest

Sweet. I hope it works out that you're able to go.

We flew into Nairobi and spent a day there before heading off to the villages. We visited the poorest areas of two Kenyan provinces where our liason had built "pre-schools" to prepare the kids in those areas for their primary schooling. We were distributing mosquito nets in and around those villages to help ensure that the children in those schools were protected from malaria. One of our guides in the village went to school at Texas Wesleyan (if I recall correctly) and has some family in OKC. He's returned to Kenya to be a more direct help to the people in that village.

I hope that I'm able to return soon. In the meantime, our church has set up a partnership with a Baptist organization in Ghana and we will be making annual trips to Ghana every summer for primarily the same reason (the distribution of those mosquito nets).

[C&CDean]

You know the USPS will deliver those mosquito nets and save y'all a ton of time and money.

[TopDawg]

4. I'm not a gun guy either, but the invading of our lives and the government taking away freedoms doesn't concern you?

This is one of the things that bugs me about the state of politics these days. And I'm not saying that this applies to you, Bermuda, but what you said reminded me of it.

It bugs me that some people will say "The invading of our lives and the government taking away freedoms is a concern to me" when the topic of gun control comes up, but then all of a sudden that same invasion of lives and taking away of freedoms (or refusal to grant equal privileges) doesn't apply when it comes to civil unions for homosexuals.

If you feel like homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But it's then disingenuous to turn around and say that you're opposed to the government invading our lives when it comes to gun control. You're not opposed to the government invading people's lives, you're opposed to the government invading your life. And that's a perfectly reasonable stance to have. But don't pretend like it's something it's not.

Again, not saying that applies to you, Bermuda...you just reminded me of it.

[TUSooner]

I understand the frustration you feel with the political process. However, comparing anyone's situation in the United States to what happened in the Eastern Bloc is borderline ridiculous. Sure, some of the dissidents in Soviet Russia withdrew from political activism as a form of protest. Then again, we have something they didn't-an explicit guarantee that we CAN participate in the political process without fear of prison, torture, or death.
Oh please, Froz. You disappoint me. You had to bend over backwards to infer such a harsh comparison, which I did not even offer. Heck, it wasn't even an analogy, more of an etymology, in parentheses no less, explaining that I didn't invent the phrase. Sheesh.

[C&CDean]

Look, a lawyerin' slap fight.

[TUSooner]

Look, a lawyerin' slap fight.

Stand back unless you want to get hurt !

[JohnnyMack]

This is one of the things that bugs me about the state of politics these days. And I'm not saying that this applies to you, Bermuda, but what you said reminded me of it.

It bugs me that some people will say "The invading of our lives and the government taking away freedoms is a concern to me" when the topic of gun control comes up, but then all of a sudden that same invasion of lives and taking away of freedoms (or refusal to grant equal privileges) doesn't apply when it comes to civil unions for homosexuals.

If you feel like homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But it's then disingenuous to turn around and say that you're opposed to the government invading our lives when it comes to gun control. You're not opposed to the government invading people's lives, you're opposed to the government invading your life. And that's a perfectly reasonable stance to have. But don't pretend like it's something it's not.

Again, not saying that applies to you, Bermuda...you just reminded me of it.

Spek.

[TopDawg]

You know the USPS will deliver those mosquito nets and save y'all a ton of time and money.

I honestly struggled with that. "Why waste money going over there when that money can be spent on more nets." But after going through the experience and meeting the people over there and seeing it all first hand and seeing how it changed my life, I'm certain that over the course of my life I will end up buying more nets as a result of that trip than the number of nets that could've been bought with my airfare.

Plus, we did a lot of other stuff too.

However, it's worth noting that we didn't take the nets over there...they were shipped. Maybe you all had a hand in getting them to Nairobi and we just took it over from there. I'm pretty sure most of the people we gave them to didn't have an address. I didn't see any numbers on the huts anyway. :)

[Frozen Sooner]

Oh please, Froz. You disappoint me. You had to bend over backwards to infer such a harsh comparison, which I did not even offer. Heck, it wasn't even an analogy, more of an etymology, in parentheses no less, explaining that I didn't invent the phrase. Sheesh.

By appropriating the language, you invite the comparison. However, explaining that was not your intent clarifies the matter. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

[Veritas]

This is one of the things that bugs me about the state of politics these days. And I'm not saying that this applies to you, Bermuda, but what you said reminded me of it.

It bugs me that some people will say "The invading of our lives and the government taking away freedoms is a concern to me" when the topic of gun control comes up, but then all of a sudden that same invasion of lives and taking away of freedoms (or refusal to grant equal privileges) doesn't apply when it comes to civil unions for homosexuals.

If you feel like homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But it's then disingenuous to turn around and say that you're opposed to the government invading our lives when it comes to gun control. You're not opposed to the government invading people's lives, you're opposed to the government invading your life. And that's a perfectly reasonable stance to have. But don't pretend like it's something it's not.

Again, not saying that applies to you, Bermuda...you just reminded me of it.
I don't get the opposition to homosexual marriage. Well, I get the moral arguments but I don't get anything beyond that. I've not had anyone present a convincing argument against gay marriage that was grounded in the factors that matter to me: economic/fiscal policy and foreign relations. I've heard small business people say that they don't want to have to offer spousal benefits to people engaging in high risk behavior, but I've never seen statistics on how much more it would actually cost to insure homo couples. I do know that California enjoyed a nice economic bump from all the homos pumping their money into the marriage-related businesses.

[TUSooner]

By appropriating the language, you invite the comparison. However, explaining that was not your intent clarifies the matter. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Good. Now that that's cleared up, we can psychologically bitch slap that hillbilly Dean for mocking us. :D

[BermudaSooner]

This is one of the things that bugs me about the state of politics these days. And I'm not saying that this applies to you, Bermuda, but what you said reminded me of it.

It bugs me that some people will say "The invading of our lives and the government taking away freedoms is a concern to me" when the topic of gun control comes up, but then all of a sudden that same invasion of lives and taking away of freedoms (or refusal to grant equal privileges) doesn't apply when it comes to civil unions for homosexuals.

If you feel like homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But it's then disingenuous to turn around and say that you're opposed to the government invading our lives when it comes to gun control. You're not opposed to the government invading people's lives, you're opposed to the government invading your life. And that's a perfectly reasonable stance to have. But don't pretend like it's something it's not.

Again, not saying that applies to you, Bermuda...you just reminded me of it.

I am opposed to groups getting group rights. What I mean by that is identifying a group and giving them elevated status--in other words, putting the rights of a group above the rights of an individual. 2 people should be able to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm others. This is different than "gay rights"--which I generally am opposed to--much like "african american rights", "white rights," "women's rights" or another other specialized group. I am for individual rights. The business owner's right to hire/fire the gay/black/white/female/smoker/old/cripple trumps that of the gay/black/white/female/smoker/old/cripple to impose upon the business owner simple because he is gay/black/white/female/smoker/old/cripple.

This is a whole different discussion, so don't want to thread jack and take this in a different direction. If you are interested, google "individualism", or "objectivism." The general principal is that an individual's right to life, liberty and property should not be infringed on by that of a group for the "greater good."

Back to the premise, if this is a big issue for you and the GOP generally doesn't support this issue, then maybe the Dems are the way to go. If this is an issue, but other more pressing ones take priority, then maybe the Republicans are the way to go. The point is, without knowledge, how can you know? I've never found a candidate that I completely agree with--I just try and find the one that I agree with the most on the issues I care about the most.

[OUDoc]

Back to the premise, if this is a big issue for you and the GOP generally doesn't support this issue, then maybe the Dems are the way to go. If this is an issue, but other more pressing ones take priority, then maybe the Republicans are the way to go. The point is, without knowledge, how can you know? I've never found a candidate that I completely agree with--I just try and find the one that I agree with the most on the issues I care about the most.

What if, like me, you are dead in the middle between both parties?
You're screwed.

[C&CDean]

Good. Now that that's cleared up, we can psychologically bitch slap that hillbilly Dean for mocking us. :D

Go ahead on, but I ain't paying a retainer or by the hour bub.

[JLEW1818]

STEP said 01 Miami was better than the 80's Miamis put together :D



Obama can say one thing and it be true to some, but somebody will always have an argument saying its wrong. Same for W

[stoops the eternal pimp]

STEP said 01 Miami was better than the 80's Miamis put together :D



Obama can say one thing and it be true to some, but somebody will always have an argument saying its wrong. Same for W


86 miami 24
01 miami 3

[OUDoc]

86 miami 24
01 miami 3
Is that the number of felons on each team?

[NormanPride]

No, that's the number of convicted felons.

[the_ouskull]

What if, like me, you are dead in the middle between both parties? You're screwed.

Tell me about it. I'm a social liberal, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, and pro-the legalization of marijuana...

...but if a bill were passed to sterilize everybody who either didn't receive their diploma, or who didn't receive their G.E.D. by their 19th birthday - barring special (ed) circumstances, etc.. I'd vote for it, and campaign for it for free.

Generational poverty is one of the biggest drains of social resources in this country, and it's something that could be fixed - granted through extreme measures, but any more extreme than the measures we currently go to in order to give away taxpayers money? I mean, it's not like the schools that NEED the most money are the ones getting the most money, which is a big part in how poverty becomes "generational poverty."

Okay, it's Draconian. But was William Shockley really THAT far off in his thinking? Hitler's the one that made Shockley look bad... not the other way around.

I need to stop thinking. Does anybody have any suggestions? I tried the brick wall + head = blackout method, and it didn't fly. I shot so many free throws the other day that my arm was actually numb all day yesterday. I give up. I just really think that any chance this country has of pulling out of it's dollar-induced tailspin is going to have to be tied to education; proper education, for our future generations. There are too many kids in our public schools that don't think of college as what you are supposed to do after high school. That has to change.

And spare me the "I lost 50 pounds on Nutrisystem" success stories about you, or someone you know, who didn't go to college and did well for themselves. That's super. THIS ISN'T ABOUT THEM, or you, for that matter. This is about the people who aren't able to, or who just don't, have that drive to be better. High schools are teaching to the tests now, (thanks, NCLB) and making kids hate school more than ever. For a child, whose brains are simple, hating school = hating learning. Where do they go to de-sensitize...? The internet. The streets. Their video games. They don't want to think, 'cause, for them, "thinking" means "working." Most kids don't just seem to sit around and think for the sake of thinking anymore. Sure, some of them pretend to, but it's just bullsh*t posturing. The rest don't even pretend to. They idolize girls like Tila Tequila, and "Snookie," and aspire to be "celebrities," not even realizing that, until their generation came along, you used to have to DO something to be a celebrity...

Technically, I guess Paris Hilton did DO something, though, kind of. Even if she wasn't very good at it.

Kids have to learn the value of thinking again; of learning for the sake of learning, and not to pass some stupid f*cking test! I'm not a fan of intelligent people who are okay with coming across like idiots, as many of you on this website may already know... and that's what is happening to the youth of this country. What ends with them raging against the school machine, starts off with a teacher telling a them they have to write out the word "for," in an academic paper; that they can't just write "4" and expect that to work in any kind of world that's worth living in.

D*mn it...

the_ouskull

[C&CDean]

You make some good points Danny, but you're a little off-base on others.

Generational poverty is a disease. I call it perpetual poverty or learned poverty but it's the same thing. Born in a ghetto on welfare, raised in a ghetto on welfare, wtf are you gonna do but continue the ghetto lifestyle? You actually learn that if you wanna survive, you don't work, you put in for every social handout there is, and if you need a little extra jack you rob some muh****ah or sell some crack to your homies.

I'm not all into the school/education business like you though. I think it's all about the home, not what somebody is/isn't learning over at Truman Elementary. Kids need to be PREPARED for school at home. Kids need to be FORCED into reading/writing/spelling/etc. at home. I support the teachers and schools completely. I just think there's a boatload of parents out there who ain't worth a popcorn fart.

I was a teenage loser. One high school credit to my name. Phys. Ed.

I managed to make it OK in life. I was raised with a strong work ethic and a sense of pride. A lot of kids aren't, and that's the real problem.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm not all into the school/education business like you though. I think it's all about the home, not what somebody is/isn't learning over at Truman Elementary. Kids need to be PREPARED for school at home. Kids need to be FORCED into reading/writing/spelling/etc. at home. I support the teachers and schools completely. I just think there's a boatload of parents out there who ain't worth a popcorn fart.

:thumbs up:

There's also some teachers who meet the above description, but the vast majority of the problem begins with that.

The best solution is for parents who love learning to pass that love to their children.

[Collier11]

Much harder to break the cycle than to keep it churning

[TopDawg]

I'm not all into the school/education business like you though. I think it's all about the home, not what somebody is/isn't learning over at Truman Elementary. Kids need to be PREPARED for school at home. Kids need to be FORCED into reading/writing/spelling/etc. at home. I support the teachers and schools completely. I just think there's a boatload of parents out there who ain't worth a popcorn fart.

I read Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers recently and he talks about this. I'm gonna try to remember to pull out the actual numbers tonight (and I hope I represent this accurately now) but one of the studies he wrote about showed how kids from low socioeconomic backgrounds learned approximately the same amount as everybody else during the school year, but "forgot" more during the summer break. In other words, all the students regressed somewhat during the summer, but those students regressed more during the break.

His point was two-fold. On the one hand you have the unfortunate school schedule that leads to an annual brain dump that slows down the learning. On the other hand, this annual break affects students in different ways. When your parents are working longer hours and maybe don't have as much formal education as the parents of your peers, you're going to begin to fall behind more quickly than they do.

Of course, this isn't really mind-blowing...it makes perfect sense. And while there are certainly cases of people growing up and learning the behaviors that Dean talks about, there are also thousands of people who are raised in the ghetto on welfare, but pick up a great work ethic from their parents (or grandparents) who are working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. They've learned this great work ethic, but they're still fighting a tougher battle because the deck is stacked against them. It's not impossible, but there's less room for error.

[StoopTroup]

I never thought I'd see Dean sit through a quaint little tea party...:D

http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/Tea%20Party%203.JPG

[the_ouskull]

You make some good points Danny, but you're a little off-base on others.

Generational poverty is a disease. I call it perpetual poverty or learned poverty but it's the same thing. Born in a ghetto on welfare, raised in a ghetto on welfare, wtf are you gonna do but continue the ghetto lifestyle? You actually learn that if you wanna survive, you don't work, you put in for every social handout there is, and if you need a little extra jack you rob some muh****ah or sell some crack to your homies.

I'm not all into the school/education business like you though. I think it's all about the home, not what somebody is/isn't learning over at Truman Elementary. Kids need to be PREPARED for school at home. Kids need to be FORCED into reading/writing/spelling/etc. at home. I support the teachers and schools completely. I just think there's a boatload of parents out there who ain't worth a popcorn fart.

I was a teenage loser. One high school credit to my name. Phys. Ed.

I managed to make it OK in life. I was raised with a strong work ethic and a sense of pride. A lot of kids aren't, and that's the real problem.

No man, I agree completely. But, since it's obvious that parents aren't going to do that at home or they already would be, we have to go with Plan B, which, in this case, isn't an alternate solution, so much as the pill that you take after you f*ck up.

And I'm not sure I'd have given you a phys ed. credit. I'll bet you look funny when you're running. :D

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

Oh, and TD...

Have you read any of Gladwell's other books? I'd highly recommend them, although I'm not sure how I feel about "What Dog Saw" yet, since it's basically just a re-printing of his New Yorker articles, many of which I've already read.

Blink and The Tipping Point were both brilliant, though. I try to incorporate that kind of knowledge in my day-to-day. If more people did, we'd see a happier world develop, I think.

I like Gladwell. Good call on that.

the_ouskull

[C&CDean]

No man, I agree completely. But, since it's obvious that parents aren't going to do that at home or they already would be, we have to go with Plan B, which, in this case, isn't an alternate solution, so much as the pill that you take after you f*ck up.

And I'm not sure I'd have given you a phys ed. credit. I'll bet you look funny when you're running. :D

the_ouskull

Say what?

I've challenged each and every one of my boys (who are all pretty stout athletes) a race from here to across the room. Each and every one has taken the old man up on the challenge. Each and every one has gone down like a gopher under the talons of a red-tailed hawk.

This boy is good between here and the wall over there. Don't ever challenge that fact. Between here and the fence? You got me. The bigger problem is that between here and Lex (maybe 9 miles) big daddy will run you down and stomp you into oblivion. I'm old, and I'm fat. But I will run you down with the Airborne shuffle until you're puking your lungs through your nostrils and peehole. My kids have always freaked out when I run the OKC marathon. They go "damn dad, I can't even run across the street..."

[the_ouskull]

Yep. Totally funny. :D

[olevetonahill]

Life is Tuff
Times are Hard
heres yer Merry
****in Christmas card :mad:

Bury Ya head in the Sand all ya want .But If You Dont VOTE the Imbeciles out then who will ?

People Like some of you are the ones who let Hitler Come to Power .:(

[Soonerus]

Nice to see all of the Einstein's on this board...at least they are thinking...

[TopDawg]

Oh, and TD...

Have you read any of Gladwell's other books? I'd highly recommend them, although I'm not sure how I feel about "What Dog Saw" yet, since it's basically just a re-printing of his New Yorker articles, many of which I've already read.

Blink and The Tipping Point were both brilliant, though. I try to incorporate that kind of knowledge in my day-to-day. If more people did, we'd see a happier world develop, I think.

I like Gladwell. Good call on that.

the_ouskull

Yep...love his stuff. I liked Tipping Point, but LOVED Blink. When Outliers came out I fully expected it to fall somewhere between the two for me and for the first half of the book, it did. But somewhere around the culture of honor stuff it became fascinating for me and it's now at the top of the list.

I've just started What the Dog Saw. I like that it gives us a Gladwellian look into so many different topics, but I miss the depth that the other books provide.

[TopDawg]

By the way, I've also enjoyed two other books that were Gladwell-ish to me. One of them is called Stumbling on Happiness and explores our all-too-common misconceptions on what makes us happy. The other is called Sway and talks about our proclivity for making irrational decisions even when trying so hard to act rationally. If you like Gladwell, I recommend both of those books.

[StoopTroup]

Reading abook about happiness....

I'll stick with OU Football.

[GrapevineSooner]

By the way, I've also enjoyed two other books that were Gladwell-ish to me. One of them is called Stumbling on Happiness and explores our all-too-common misconceptions on what makes us happy. The other is called Sway and talks about our proclivity for making irrational decisions even when trying so hard to act rationally. If you like Gladwell, I recommend both of those books.

Thanks, TD.

I'll see if I can find these books.

And like a few other people, politics and sports don't carry as much meaning to me as they did a few years ago.

Again, having one child and another on the way probably changes that. But more to the point that 04 brought up here, I read political blogs on both sides of the aisle and I'm dumbfounded at the level of hypocrisy and vitriol each side displays for one another. There's no willingness to work with the other side. No, the end game is to trash the other side into oblivion. Or Bolivian, I guess.

And it'll never work.

[the_ouskull]

..the end game is to trash the other side into... Bolivian, I guess.

Jeah, BOY!

Sin,
http://nybankruptcynet.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/celeb-miketyson.jpg

As long as we're playing the "read me" game, what about fiction authors? I hardly read them anymore, but who, if anybody, are you reading lately?

This summer, I re-knocked out a lot of the Brett Easton Ellis collection. (Rules of Attraction, American Psycho, and Less Than Zero - two of which were made into good movies...) I'm about to start on Lunar Park. (And I've been looking for a Glitteratti bootleg online forever...) Also, I'm a Max Brooks, guy. I'll admit it. Have you read World War Z?

I love zombies. Ah, metaphor...

the_ouskull

[birddog]

stuff like this is why i shut er down. I spend all my time with my family now.



http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139069

[Sooner04]

Life is Tuff
Times are Hard
heres yer Merry
****in Christmas card :mad:

Bury Ya head in the Sand all ya want .But If You Dont VOTE the Imbeciles out then who will ?

People Like some of you are the ones who let Hitler Come to Power .:(
So, I'm Neville Chamberlain?

Every issue that arises these days is a "crisis in American history" from whichever side denounces the issue and a "time for change" from whichever side supports it. Now each side looks like Chicken Little every time something doesn't go their way. The whole country will collapse if THIS doesn't happen or THAT doesn't change.

Pfft. Forget that. It gets old listening to that garbage after a while.

[olevetonahill]

So, I'm Neville Chamberlain?

Every issue that arises these days is a "crisis in American history" from whichever side denounces the issue and a "time for change" from whichever side supports it. Now each side looks like Chicken Little every time something doesn't go their way. The whole country will collapse if THIS doesn't happen or THAT doesn't change.

Pfft. Forget that. It gets old listening to that garbage after a while.

Maybe I'm wrong , But I don't see where I pointed to any One Person in that Post .

I'm saying If we hide from whats happening and do nothing to change it or even try to change it . then we are no better than those who allowed Hitler to come to power. Be it Chamberlain , or the average citizen of Germany of that day .

[the_ouskull]

Okay, this whole "Neville Chamberlain is evil" crap has to end.

Aside from the fact that he was twice named Chancellor of the Exchequer, he was the Minister of Health, he was the Postmaster General, and he was almost single-handedly responsible for passing the laws that forced companies to improve their factory conditions and eliminate child labor... when he was the British Prime Minister, after making the deal with Hitler, his approval rating shot up to 68 percent. (For those of you who like making comparisons, that's 20 points higher than Obama's current rating...) He was the head of a country whose military would have been freaking ROLLED by Germany, and, realizing this, he opted to side with them... for the time being. Keeping in mind that he met with Hitler in August-ish of 1938...

- His people didn't want to get into another war. This should be a major consideration when leading "the people." What do THEY want? His approval rating going up the way it did was the public's way of thanking him for not getting them into another war.
- Chamberlain died in 1940. It's not like all of the writing was on the wall yet. There's a reason that people followed Hitler so blindly, even in the beginning, before their fear of his regime took over. He was well-spoken, and, physically, very unassuming. Most of the f*cked-up stuff that Hitler was doing in 1938 was still pretty behind-the-scenes. Publicly, he wasn't showing signs of psycho; at least not to the other countries of Europe... yet.
- Immediately following the meeting with Hitler, Chamberlain went back home, and started building a military that actually WOULD be able to repel a German attack, and he built it up much, much more quickly than he should have been able to. Why? Because of the Factories Act that Chamberlain himself championed. The modernization of the British factories allowed them to crank out "war stuff" at a much higher rate. The time that Chamberlain's meeting with Hitler bought Britain was enough time to allow his country to prepare to protect itself against Hitler.

Once again, keep in mind, Chamberlain died in 1940. Germany didn't even invade Poland until 1939. I mean, come ON, man... if the French are the only people looking to fight alongside you, is it really such a bad idea to take a step back and think of an alternate plan?

Chamberlain did a H*ll of a lot more good than someone like Ramsay MacDonald or (especially) Lord Halifax... He got Hitler - freaking HITLER - to agree to peace, even if he was doing it for his own reasons; namely, so it wouldn't seem like he was lying about the whole "war for peace" thing that he was saying publicly by this time. In fact, Germany held off on their attacks (temporarily) in large part because of Chamberlain, and his (subtle, but correct) hints that, if Germany attacked Czechoslovakia, France would help defend it, and, if Germany got into it with France, G.B. would have no choice but to help France. So, unless you're ready to start another World War, you may want to re-consider. Hitler re-considered.

Now, granted, it may have been that public relations defeat that pushed Hitler "over the edge," so to speak, but it bought Czechoslovakia, France, etc... enough time to build their military to the point that Germany wasn't going to steamroll them.

I'm just a Chamberlain apologist. Given what he had to work with, I think that he did a heck of a job.

the_ouskull

[TUSooner]

Okay, this whole "Neville Chamberlain is evil" crap has to end.
****
I'm just a Chamberlain apologist. Given what he had to work with, I think that he did a heck of a job.

the_ouskull

Good points. Because we read history backwards (perhaps necessarily), and because we tend to oversimplify everything, and because in hindsight Churchill's views of Hitler were correct, the realities of 1938 Europe get overlooked. Sure, if England had listened to Churchill throughout the 30s and made more effective preparations to oppose Hitler with force, Chamberlain (or whoever led HM Government) would have been in a position to take a firm stand against Hitler in 1938. But England did not. Thus, Chamberlain was in the position he was in.

The more valid criticism arguably should be directed at the British public for not seeing Hitler for what he was and would surely become. Yet, the 1930's presented plenty of domestic and economic problems, and the people who had seen the idiotic slaughter of a generation in the foolish and unnecessary Great War understandably were not eager to renew hostilities. Same for France. And the USA was even more loath to go to war, letting France fall and England wobble and its own self get attacked before really cranking up the war machine.

[the_ouskull]

True that. Also, it was a different world back then. Newspapers and radio were the only semi-reliable sources of information. No internet. No "Hard Copy," or anything. Germany wouldn't have been able to do what they did then, even 20 years later, with the advent of television, etc... Also, Hitler was an expert at presenting the public face that he needed to present to justify whatever it was he was trying to get done at the time.

But, if it weren't for WWII, we wouldn't have Nazi Zombies in CoDMF2, now would we? =)

the_ouskull

[JohnnyMack]

Good points. Because we read history backwards (perhaps necessarily), and because we tend to oversimplify everything, and because in hindsight Churchill's views of Hitler were correct, the realities of 1938 Europe get overlooked. Sure, if England had listened to Churchill throughout the 30s and made more effective preparations to oppose Hitler with force, Chamberlain (or whoever led HM Government) would have been in a position to take a firm stand against Hitler in 1938. But England did not. Thus, Chamberlain was in the position he was in.

The more valid criticism arguably should be directed at the British public for not seeing Hitler for what he was and would surely become. Yet, the 1930's presented plenty of domestic and economic problems, and the people who had seen the idiotic slaughter of a generation in the foolish and unnecessary Great War understandably were not eager to renew hostilities. Same for France. And the USA was even more loath to go to war, letting France fall and England wobble and its own self get attacked before really cranking up the war machine.

Kind of the way people say WJC made a mistake in not getting Bin Laden back in 1996 when he was being kicked out of the Sudan. Looking back through the lens of 09/11 it's easy to say we should have done something, however at that time, he wasn't someone who was viewed as being as dangerous as he ended up being.

[the_ouskull]

Exactly like that. I'd go so far to say that the whole "bin Laden in 1996" thing was a fine example of revisionist history by the Republican administration and apologists of 2000-08, looking to deflect attention away from their own efforts to search for oi... errr... terror.

the_ouskull

[Bourbon St Sooner]

TUSooner says I've put myself into "Internal Exile". That sounds good. Hell, it may be right, but I think the main problem here is I'm selfish. I'm a relentless pursuer of happiness. If something infuriates me, I'm through with it. Life's too short to spend it worrying about something you have no control over. That's why I quit watching OU women's basketball: too many turnovers. That's why I quit watching the news: too much crap.


You need to put yourself into internal exile on Sunday starting at 5:30. From that point it ain't gonna be purty for purple lovers.

Who Dat!

[TopDawg]

Heh.

[TopDawg]

I like that 04 titled this thread "Tell Me Why I'm Wrong: IV"

and then wrote


I've been posting on this website since the Monday after 63-14. I've seen political threads come and political threads go, and along the way I realized that no argument on here is going to sway anybody on any issue.

Subtle.

[Sooner04]

1. I'm confident the Vikings will lose.

2. I haven't had time to worry about the Vikings game because I've been so involved with the inner workings surrounding the run-off for the Massachusetts Senate seat.

[TopDawg]

2. I haven't had time to worry about the Vikings game because I've been so involved with the inner workings surrounding the run-off for the Massachusetts Senate seat.

AHHHHH! So that's what one of our mutual friends has been posting about on facebook.

[GrapevineSooner]

Kind of the way people say WJC made a mistake in not getting Bin Laden back in 1996 when he was being kicked out of the Sudan. Looking back through the lens of 09/11 it's easy to say we should have done something, however at that time, he wasn't someone who was viewed as being as dangerous as he ended up being.

And I think it's also fair to say that GWB didn't see him as being dangerous because the terrorist attacks they had carried out were still miles and miles away from our shores.

[the_ouskull]

1. I'm confident the Vikings will lose.

2. I haven't had time to worry about the Vikings game because I've been so involved with the inner workings surrounding the run-off for the Massachusetts Senate seat.

Seriously... I'm not even sure it's legal for a Republican to be in Kennedy's old senate seat. I'm sure he left a bottle of booze in the cupholder, though...

the_ouskull

[JohnnyMack]

And I think it's also fair to say that GWB didn't see him as being dangerous because the terrorist attacks they had carried out were still miles and miles away from our shores.

Yeah Condi Rice's attitude towards Al Qaeda at the onset of W's first term is well documented.

[Collier11]

Exactly like that. I'd go so far to say that the whole "bin Laden in 1996" thing was a fine example of revisionist history by the Republican administration and apologists of 2000-08, looking to deflect attention away from their own efforts to search for oi... errr... terror.

the_ouskull

But is it revisionist history when a known terrorist is offered up to you, I believe twice on a silver platter and you refuse to take him out? I understand some of the specifics are argued but the idea is the same. Of course we didnt know what he would do but the fact is he was a bad guy

[JohnnyMack]

But is it revisionist history when a known terrorist is offered up to you, I believe twice on a silver platter and you refuse to take him out? Of course we didnt know what he would do but the fact is he was a bad guy

From what I understand at the time that this alleged offer (which has never been substantiated as fact) occurred OBL wasn't involved in any specific terror plots aimed at US interests. At that time OBL was more focused on Saudi Arabia than anything else. It wasn't until AFTER he left Sudan that he declared war on the US if I'm not mistaken. We knew he was a bad dude, but we couldn't necessarily just round him up because he might do something to us.

[TopDawg]

04: can we get your thoughts on last night's State of the Union address and the Republican Response that followed?

[Sooner04]

04: can we get your thoughts on last night's State of the Union address and the Republican Response that followed?
Yes. And here it is:

Tommy Mason-Griffin is a stud.



Thank you, and may God bless America.

[NormanPride]

I played Mass Effect 2 and got to flirt with computer generated girlies. Much better than listening to boring old people talk about how they're totally not going to screw things up.

[Frozen Sooner]

04: can we get your thoughts on last night's State of the Union address and the Republican Response that followed?

Obama speaks=OU up by double digits.
Republican response=OU almost lets huge lead slip away in waning moments.

I think we can all see what's going on here.

[TopDawg]

If Hitler had vomited on Chamberlain, Chamberlain still would've given him Czechoslovakia.

[Sooner04]

:rolleyes:

Chamberlain. You could hold his head in a toilet and he'd still give you half of Europe.

[Crucifax Autumn]

OF course if everyone had followed your advice they wouldn't know Europe had been given away until they looked out the window and saw a panzer on the lawn with a Jewish girl tied to the gun turret.

[Frozen Sooner]

I vomited on a girl once and still managed to take her home that night. Just saying.

[StoopTroup]

Funny that a thread about 04 being wrong has gotten so much action. Who would have though him being wrong would be so popular? :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

It's popular enough that there are thousands of threads here where he's wrong about one thing or another.

[TopDawg]

Hitler on TBS this evening and The Soup Nazi on CBS tonight.