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King Barry's Back
1/12/2010, 05:35 AM
No idea how credible this is, but if right, sure does throw some monkey wrenches in a lot of places.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1242202/Could-30-years-global-COOLING.html?ITO=1490#

Could we be in for 30 years of global COOLING?

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:46 PM on 11th January 2010

Britain's big freeze is the start of a worldwide trend towards colder weather that seriously challenges global warming theories, eminent scientists claimed yesterday.

The world has entered a 'cold mode' which is likely to bring a global dip in temperatures which will last for 20 to 30 years, they say.

Summers and winters will all be cooler than in recent years, and the changes will mean that global warming will be 'paused' or even reversed, it was claimed.


Big chill: Scientists have claimed that the world has entered a 'cold mode' which could last three decades, a theory that challenges climate change

The predictions are based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.

They are the work of respected climate scientists and not those routinely dismissed by environmentalists as 'global warming deniers'.

Some experts believe these cycles - and not human pollution - can explain all the major changes in world temperatures in the 20th century.

If true, the research challenges the science behind climate change theories, and calls into question the political measures to halt global warming.

According to some scientists, the warming of the Earth since 1900 is due to natural oceanic cycles, and not man-made greenhouse gases.

It occurred because the world was in a 'warm mode', and would have happened regardless of mankind's rising carbon dioxide production.

And now oceanic cycles have switched to a 'cold mode', where data shows that the amount of Arctic summer sea ice has increased by more than a quarter since 2007.

The research has been carried out by eminent climate scientists, including Professor Mojib Latif. He is a leading member of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

He and his colleagues predicted the cooling trend in a 2008 paper, and warned of it again at an IPCC conference in Geneva in September.

Working at the prestigious Leibniz Institute in Kiel University in Germany, he has developed methods for measuring ocean temperatures 3,000ft under the surface, where the cooling and warming cycles start.

For Europe, the crucial factor is the temperature in the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean. He said such ocean cycles - known as multi-decadal oscillations or MDOs - could account for up to half of the rise in global warming in recent years.

Professor Latif said: 'A significant share of the warming we saw from 1980 to 2000 and at earlier periods in the 20th century was due to these cycles - as much as 50 per cent.

'They have now gone into reverse, so winters like this one will become much more likely. All this may well last two decades or longer.

'The extreme retreats that we have seen in glaciers and sea ice will come to a halt. For the time being, global warming has paused, and there may well be some cooling.'

Many meteorologists have blamed the current freeze on 'Arctic oscillation' - a weather pattern in which areas of high pressure have pushed the warming jetstream away from Britain. They have insisted this temporary change will have no effect on long-term warming patterns.

But another expert, Professor Anastasios Tsonis, head of the University of Wisconsin Atmospheric Sciences Group, said MDOs will continue to determine global temperatures.

He said: 'They amount to massive rearrangements in the dominant patterns of the weather, and their shifts explain all the major changes in world temperatures during the 20th and 21st centuries. We have such a change now.'

Fraggle145
1/12/2010, 10:56 AM
Regardless of the relevance of the paper, which I havent had a chance to read yet, I think its funny that now people with PhD's that know more about the climate than you ever will are "scientists" :rolleyes:

TheHumanAlphabet
1/12/2010, 12:21 PM
Perhaps another "Little Ice Age" again. Last time was in the 1650s-1700s.

Mmmm, like they know what they are "researching"...Why didn't their models predict this?

yermom
1/13/2010, 01:54 PM
maybe it's because so many people watched Al Gore's movie and aren't putting out as much CO2? ;)

soonerboomer93
1/13/2010, 02:50 PM
which is good, because Gore can just use their "carbon credits" to fly a couple extra trips on the G5

Tulsa_Fireman
1/14/2010, 01:41 PM
Regardless of the relevance of the paper, which I havent had a chance to read yet, I think its funny that now people with PhD's that know more about the climate than you ever will are "scientists" :rolleyes:

So the study is potentially irrelevant? Why?

Did the "scientist" not fudge enough data for you to believe the results?

C&CDean
1/14/2010, 02:04 PM
Is this one of the thousands of credible scientists or is it one of the paid shills? I get confused...

Fraggle145
1/14/2010, 02:04 PM
So the study is potentially irrelevant? Why?

Did the "scientist" not fudge enough data for you to believe the results?

That wasn't what I meant at all. I used a poor choice of words. All I was trying to say was that I hadn't read it so i couldnt comment on how "good" the science was... The main point was to point out the anti-intellectualism in the statement.

Regardless, the lead author said himself that the Daily Mail misinterpreted his results: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/11/climate-change-global-warming-mojib-latif



Leading climate scientist challenges Mail on Sunday's use of his research

Mojib Latif denies his research supports theory that current cold weather undermines scientific consensus on global warming

David Adam, environment correspondent
guardian.co.uk, Monday 11 January 2010 16.47 GMT

A leading scientist has hit out at misleading newspaper reports that linked his research to claims that the current cold weather undermines the scientific case for manmade global warming.

Mojib Latif, a climate expert at the Leibniz Institute at Kiel University in Germany, said he "cannot understand" reports that used his research to question the scientific consensus on climate change.

He told the Guardian: "It comes as a surprise to me that people would try to use my statements to try to dispute the nature of global warming. I believe in manmade global warming. I have said that if my name was not Mojib Latif it would be global warming."

He added: "There is no doubt within the scientific community that we are affecting the climate, that the climate is changing and responding to our emissions of greenhouse gases."

A report in the Mail on Sunday said that Latif's results "challenge some of the global warming orthodoxy's most deeply cherished beliefs" and "undermine the standard climate computer models". Monday's Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph repeated the claims.

The reports attempted to link the Arctic weather that has enveloped the UK with research published by Latif's team in the journal Nature in 2008. The research said that natural fluctuations in ocean temperature could have a bigger impact on global temperature than expected. In particular, the study concluded that cooling in the oceans could offset global warming, with the average temperature over the decades 2000-2010 and 2005-2015 predicted to be no higher than the average for 1994-2004. Despite clarifications from the scientists at the time, who stressed that the research did not challenge the predicted long-term warming trend, the study was widely misreported as signalling a switch from global warming to global cooling.

The Mail on Sunday article said that Latif's research showed that the current cold weather heralds such "a global trend towards cooler weather".

It said: "The BBC assured viewers that the big chill was was merely short-term 'weather' that had nothing to do with 'climate', which was still warming. The work of Prof Latif and the other scientists refutes that view."

Not according to Latif. "They are not related at all," he said. "What we are experiencing now is a weather phenomenon, while we talked about the mean temperature over the next 10 years. You can't compare the two."

He said the ocean temperature effect was similar to other natural influences on global temperature, such as volcanos, which cool the planet temporarily as ash spewed into the atmosphere reflects sunlight.

"The natural variation occurs side by side with the manmade warming. Sometimes it has a cooling effect and can offset this warming and other times it can accelerate it." Other scientists have questioned the strength of the ocean effect on overall temperature and disagree that global warming will show the predicted pause.

Latif said his research suggested that up to half the warming seen over the 20th century was down to this natural ocean effect, but said that was consistent with the 2007 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. "No climate specialist would ever say that 100% of the warming we have seen is down to greenhouse gas emissions."

The recent articles are not the first to misrepresent his research, Latif said. "There are numerous newspapers, radio stations and television channels all trying to get our attention. Some overstate and some want to downplay the problem as a way to get that attention," he said. "We are trying to discuss in the media a highly complex issue. Nobody would discuss the problem of [Einstein's theory of] relativity in the media. But because we all experience the weather, we all believe that we can assess the global warming problem."

Explodo
1/14/2010, 02:06 PM
You lost the instant you linked from the guardian...Come on man.

C&CDean
1/14/2010, 02:06 PM
Well ****. How credible can a guy named Mojib Latif be anyhow?

Fraggle145
1/14/2010, 02:07 PM
I think perhaps the best statement he makes is:
But because we all experience the weather, we all believe that we can assess the global warming problem.

Fraggle145
1/14/2010, 02:08 PM
You lost the instant you linked from the guardian...Come on man.

So now it matters where the guy said what he said? But some journalist at the daily mail obviously understands the man's research better than he himself understands it? Got it.

Edit: And like the Daily Mail is any better... Journalism is slanted?! :eek: Color me shocked.

Explodo
1/14/2010, 02:12 PM
Nope...Just that the guardian is well known for being little more than a mouthpiece of the far left barking moonbat types (Euro Wing).

I no more trust their opinions than you would trust something from say <insert a conservative Newsie here> BTW, what is the right equivolent of the GUardian? The telegraph?

Explodo
1/14/2010, 02:15 PM
So now Putin is worried about global cooling too...guess he was taken out of context.

Fraggle145
1/14/2010, 02:16 PM
The thing about it is it wasnt an journalistic opinion piece... it was essentially an interview with the author.

The daily mail is typically known for being a similar mouthpiece for the right i believe.

Explodo
1/14/2010, 02:21 PM
Odd how the North Atlantic Oscillation is to blame for cold years but only Co2 is to blame for hot years. Blind faith is a wonderful thing.....

Speaking of which...are you one of the guys who believes CO2 is the driver in this event?

Fraggle145
1/14/2010, 02:27 PM
Again not what the guy said:
"The natural variation occurs side by side with the manmade warming. Sometimes it has a cooling effect and can offset this warming and other times it can accelerate it."

And yes I accept that CO2 from anthropogenic sources has a large role in accelerating the rate of the current climate warming trend.

Explodo
1/14/2010, 02:32 PM
Ok.

*snicker*

Fraggle145
1/14/2010, 02:33 PM
:rolleyes:

Explodo
1/14/2010, 02:37 PM
You haven't done your homework...So if I told you temp rises them C02 rises...would you call me names?

OklahomaTuba
1/14/2010, 02:40 PM
Hide the Decline, as they say..

OklahomaTuba
1/14/2010, 02:41 PM
And yes I accept that "Mike Nature Trick" has a large role in accelerating the rate of the current climate warming trend.

Fix it for ya. ;)

Explodo
1/14/2010, 02:45 PM
Now you're going to make him mad.