So I went to Tom Coburn's town hall

[MR2-Sooner86]

Well Tom Coburn had his town hall meeting tonight. Today was my first day of class and surprisingly I found out today his meeting would be on campus in the grand ballroom. I had some time so I was able to drop in for about 30 minutes before my night class. I don't remember everything and honestly I was at the very back of the room so I didn't hear everything in great detail. I'll just highlight some points.

1. The healthcare bill will pass. "We saw how they bribed and bought votes so they'll do it until this thing passes." He's talking about Democrats that is.

2. He talked about tort reform and going after three key areas would save 500 billion dollars.

3. His amendment to where Congress would have to use this same healthcare system was shot down immediately.

4. A guy brought up legalizing of marijuana and how the government is wasting money and "the war on drugs is the biggest waste of money ever." He wants marijuana to stay illegal along with most of the people in there.

5. A college student stood up and asked, "I can go home and drink and get drunk, I can go home and put tar into my lungs from cigarettes, but I can't smoke pot?"
Coburn made a pretty **** poor argument I think. He talked about the government restricting rights and how we can't go 85 in a 55 zone because it puts people in danger. Marijuana puts people in danger because it's a gateway drug if you drive under it you'll kill people. The kid brought up alcohol and he said it isn't the same thing. He said he's keeping illegal drugs illegal and all the people clapped. Gotta love being in a baptist state at times.

6. It's wrong that terrorist are treated like American citizens by getting trials when they should be treated as war criminals.

7. Cap and Trade has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting any farther than it already has.

8. It's bad that Barak Obama puts interest of what European's and other countries think over what America thinks.

9. Barak Obama is anti-energy and we aren't drilling for oil soon in our own borders.

10. The message the American media has given is anti-America. (NOTE: I didn't get to hear all of this as this is when I left. The question was about Iran's revolutions and why there hasn't been props from the government and he went into the message America sends.)

That's about all I can think of at the moment. If I can think of anything else I'll post it up.
:pop:

[King Barry's Back]

Where else but a college campus can an Oklahoma Senator get razzed for opposing the legalization of marijuana?

[MR2-Sooner86]

Where else but a college campus can an Oklahoma Senator get razzed for opposing the legalization of marijuana?

Surprisingly the first one to bring up the subject was a guy in his late 40's to early 50's and then another college student asked a question when Coburn addressed that guy.

There were few college students there. I'd say it was lower than 20. I'd say around 70% of the crowd was people 65 and older.

[Condescending Sooner]

The money spent on the war on drugs in almost entirely money that was seized from the dealers. Keep that in mind when making arguments for legalization.

[picasso]

Surprisingly the first one to bring up the subject was a slob in his late 40's to early 50's and then another college student asked a question when Coburn addressed that guy.



fixed.

[OklahomaTuba]

Not to mention the toll it would cost this country from increased crime, increased poverty, less economic competitiveness, and all the other social ills associated with rampant drug use.

[TUSooner]

He said he's keeping illegal drugs illegal and all the people clapped. Gotta love being in a baptist state at times.

It reminds me of the guy from Alabama who told me that the only people who wanted to keep a certain county "dry" were the bootleggers and the baptists.


Not to mention the toll it would cost this country from increased crime, increased poverty, less economic competitiveness, and all the other social ills associated with rampant drug use.

You are making that **** up, starting with the presumption of "rampant" drug use. More likley, you are just repeating some BS propaganda that somebody else made up. Didn't anyone learn anything from Prohibition?

[TUSooner]

The money spent on the war on drugs in almost entirely money that was seized from the dealers. Keep that in mind when making arguments for legalization.

I doubt we have seized anything close to the mindboggling sums we spend to support the multiple heavily-armed law enforcement agencies and other personnel that we use to stop illegal drug trafficking. You'll have to show me some real numbers before I believe that statement.

[Condescending Sooner]

I doubt we have seized anything close to the mindboggling sums we spend to support the multiple heavily-armed law enforcement agencies and other personnel that we use to stop illegal drug trafficking. You'll have to show me some real numbers before I believe that statement.

You have no knowledge yet want to argue, seems familiar. I have worked closely with several agencies and I can tell you that their drug enforcement teams are all self funded through seized funds. The amount seized is indeed "mind boggling".

[GrapevineSooner]

Not to mention the toll it would cost this country from increased crime, increased poverty, less economic competitiveness, and all the other social ills associated with rampant drug use.

Sounds like you're advocating a form of socialism.

:pop:

[SteelClip49]

Oh I am sure many great questions and topics will be brought up on Thursday when the Senator comes to the Health Sciences Center to speak.

[tommieharris91]

You have no knowledge yet want to argue, seems familiar. I have worked closely with several agencies and I can tell you that their drug enforcement teams are all self funded through seized funds. The amount seized is indeed "mind boggling".
Where can I find these "mind boggling" numbers?

[badger]

Coburn spoke in Tulsa yesterday. Here (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20100112_16_A14_SenTom60662&archive=yes) is a article on what he said.

In a nutshell, Coburn is sick of partisan b!tching and blames Congress for the crap situation we are in now, not President Bush or President Obama.

[soonerscuba]

You have no knowledge yet want to argue, seems familiar. I have worked closely with several agencies and I can tell you that their drug enforcement teams are all self funded through seized funds. The amount seized is indeed "mind boggling".Heh, the old "I work for deal with blah, blah, blah everyday schtick" Classic. So, are you prepared to state as a matter of fact that drug enforcement is self funded to such a degree that the amount of federal appropriations is less than the amount seized in tangible currency by said organizations? In addition, do you believe that the amount spent on the prison system for drug offenders is a wise use of federal dollars, so much so that the average sentence for drugs is longer than violent crime? The second is solely a matter of opinion, but I generally feel this is what seperates the true libertarians from those who believe that social gov't intervention is hunkydorey as long as it fits their political aim.

[SoonerProphet]

Where can I find these "mind boggling" numbers?

this

[Howzit]

The amount of money spent on illegal pot is a different issue on whether it should be illegal.

I think of potential tax dollars and hear cha-ching.

And I don't buy that legalizing it is going to be the downfall of society. It's not heroin. It's not meth. It's not coke.

[TUSooner]

You have no knowledge yet want to argue, seems familiar. I have worked closely with several agencies and I can tell you that their drug enforcement teams are all self funded through seized funds. The amount seized is indeed "mind boggling".

If by your first sentence you mean, "You refuse to believe what I say without some kind of proof" then you are correct. You made a statement that money seized from drug traficking pays the cost of anti-trafficking efforts. I ask you to back it up. You smugly say, "because I know." I am not convinced.

[C&CDean]

The amount of money spent on illegal pot is a different issue on whether it should be illegal.

I think of potential tax dollars and hear cha-ching.

And I don't buy that legalizing it is going to be the downfall of society. It's not heroin. It's not meth. It's not coke.

Admit it. You were the 50-something stoner in the crowd, right?

My whole deal with it isn't the legal/illegal issue. It's simply what effects weed has on users of the weed. If you smoke it, I can guarantee several things:

-You are apathetic
-You are functioning at a diminished level - and not just when stoned
-You are wasting days/weeks/years of your life existing in a numbing cocoon that is robbing you of your potential
-You are eating way too many nacho cheese doritos and donuts

All drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) will kill you eventually. Weed - of all the illicit drugs - kills you insidiously slowly. No, you won't be laying in a dirty alleyway with a rusty needle hanging out of your arm, or blowing your brains out after a week-long coke binge comes to an end and you can't handle the post-coke depression. You won't have all your teeth fall out and end up getting shot by a neighbor for breaking into his house trying to find $$ for meth. However, you will be a shell of what you could be, and watching young people slowly waste their lives away is just as sad as somebody ODing on smack.

[Howzit]

Admit it. You were the 50-something stoner in the crowd, right?

My whole deal with it isn't the legal/illegal issue. It's simply what effects weed has on users of the weed. If you smoke it, I can guarantee several things:

-You are apathetic
-You are functioning at a diminished level - and not just when stoned
-You are wasting days/weeks/years of your life existing in a numbing cocoon that is robbing you of your potential
-You are eating way too many nacho cheese doritos and donuts

All drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) will kill you eventually. Weed - of all the illicit drugs - kills you insidiously slowly. No, you won't be laying in a dirty alleyway with a rusty needle hanging out of your arm, or blowing your brains out after a week-long coke binge comes to an end and you can't handle the post-coke depression. You won't have all your teeth fall out and end up getting shot by a neighbor for breaking into his house trying to find $$ for meth. However, you will be a shell of what you could be, and watching young people slowly waste their lives away is just as sad as somebody ODing on smack.

Ex. 50-something ex-stoner.

I don't argue with the effects you list, I just don't agree that it's the government's place to make the decision of whether you live your life this way - at least for maryjoowanna.

[Sooner in Tampa]

I don't argue with the effects you list, I just don't agree that it's the government's place to make the decision of whether you live your life this way - at least for maryjoowanna.
^^^^ THIS

OR pay for you to pick your *** up out of the slums if that's where you end up

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ex. 50-something ex-stoner.

I don't argue with the effects you list, I just don't agree that it's the government's place to make the decision of whether you live your life this way - at least for maryjoowanna.

seriously? the government makes calls on drugs ALL THE TIME. drugs are tossed into 5 categories with schedule 1 being illegal, schedule 2 being kept in a vault and closely monitored, schedule 3 being semi-closely monitored, and schedule 4-5 meh.

marijuana is currently a schedule 1 along with crack, etc. if you are advocating that marijuana be moved from schedule 1 to schedule 2, then i agree with you as long as the public delivery vehicle is not smoking. if there are any odds of addiction from second hand marijuana smoke, then the risk is not worth people toting up in front of doorways.

[picasso]

maryjoowanna.

I knew it! It's the Jews fault!!!

[sooneron]

seriously? the government makes calls on drugs ALL THE TIME. drugs are tossed into 5 categories with schedule 1 being illegal, schedule 2 being kept in a vault and closely monitored, schedule 3 being semi-closely monitored, and schedule 4-5 meh.

marijuana is currently a schedule 1 along with crack, etc. if you are advocating that marijuana be moved from schedule 1 to schedule 2, then i agree with you as long as the public delivery vehicle is not smoking. if there are any odds of addiction from second hand marijuana smoke, then the risk is not worth people toting up in front of doorways.

Seriously? You think someone will end up addicted while on their way to work by passing up someone reefing up on the sidewalk?

[sooneron]

Admit it. You were the 50-something stoner in the crowd, right?

My whole deal with it isn't the legal/illegal issue. It's simply what effects weed has on users of the weed. If you smoke it, I can guarantee several things:

-You are apathetic
-You are functioning at a diminished level - and not just when stoned
-You are wasting days/weeks/years of your life existing in a numbing cocoon that is robbing you of your potential
-You are eating way too many nacho cheese doritos and donuts

All drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) will kill you eventually. Weed - of all the illicit drugs - kills you insidiously slowly. No, you won't be laying in a dirty alleyway with a rusty needle hanging out of your arm, or blowing your brains out after a week-long coke binge comes to an end and you can't handle the post-coke depression. You won't have all your teeth fall out and end up getting shot by a neighbor for breaking into his house trying to find $$ for meth. However, you will be a shell of what you could be, and watching young people slowly waste their lives away is just as sad as somebody ODing on smack.

I wish someone here would post the numbers on the likelihood of someone becoming the above (addicted) via Mary Jane as opposed to the likelihodd of someone becoming an alkie and not much different from the above. It's not like drunks are major go-getters or something.

[Condescending Sooner]

Heh, the old "I work for deal with blah, blah, blah everyday schtick" Classic. So, are you prepared to state as a matter of fact that drug enforcement is self funded to such a degree that the amount of federal appropriations is less than the amount seized in tangible currency by said organizations? In addition, do you believe that the amount spent on the prison system for drug offenders is a wise use of federal dollars, so much so that the average sentence for drugs is longer than violent crime? The second is solely a matter of opinion, but I generally feel this is what seperates the true libertarians from those who believe that social gov't intervention is hunkydorey as long as it fits their political aim.


I have dealt with and worked for several agencies. You calling me a liar won't change that. I said the drug enforcement teams are self funded and they are. They seize the vehicles carrying the drugs and auction them off as well. You trying to change the statement and trying to interject opinion is not "libertarian" but quite common with liberals.

[Condescending Sooner]

Where can I find these "mind boggling" numbers?

Try looking it up on the innerwebs. You know, agency budgets etc. Of course, since seized funds do not come from the state, and some enforcement units are a seperate entity from the agency, they might not be listed.

[SoonerProphet]

Try looking it up on the innerwebs. You know, agency budgets etc. Of course, since seized funds do not come from the state, and some enforcement units are a seperate entity from the agency, they might not be listed.

it is your assertion, why don't you provide the proof.

[Condescending Sooner]

it is your assertion, why don't you provide the proof.

Cause I am not going to list non-public seizure records to some jackhole on a message board. If it is public info, look it up yourself since you asked for the information.

[Howzit]

seriously? the government makes calls on drugs ALL THE TIME. drugs are tossed into 5 categories with schedule 1 being illegal, schedule 2 being kept in a vault and closely monitored, schedule 3 being semi-closely monitored, and schedule 4-5 meh.

marijuana is currently a schedule 1 along with crack, etc. if you are advocating that marijuana be moved from schedule 1 to schedule 2, then i agree with you as long as the public delivery vehicle is not smoking. if there are any odds of addiction from second hand marijuana smoke, then the risk is not worth people toting up in front of doorways.

My turn.

Srsly? Odds of addiction from second hand marijuana smoke?

Yes, I understand the government does this all the time. What I am saying is that in terms of making it illegal for someone to "tote up" in their own home, I disagree with.

Just my opinion. I don't see a big difference between pot and alcohol.

[SoonerProphet]

cause you are full of ****...jackhole

[Howzit]

I'm rubber and you're glue...

[soonerscuba]

I have dealt with and worked for several agencies. You calling me a liar won't change that. I said the drug enforcement teams are self funded and they are. They seize the vehicles carrying the drugs and auction them off as well. You trying to change the statement and trying to interject opinion is not "libertarian" but quite common with liberals.I'm not calling you a liar, just pointing out that you are making a claim that runs to every set of fact and common sense that one can imagine, until you prove that the amount of funding provided by seized asset liquidation is greater than the amount of federal appropriations you cannot claim that the agencies self fund. This is literally fairy tale, one most believe that the gov't is running a profitable business on law enforcement, not even including incarceration costs, this is very, very difficult to believe.

[soonerscuba]

Is that you, Big Red Ron?

[Condescending Sooner]

I'm not calling you a liar, just pointing out that you are making a claim that runs to every set of fact and common sense that one can imagine, until you prove that the amount of funding provided by seized asset liquidation is greater than the amount of federal appropriations you cannot claim that the agencies self fund. This is literally fairy tale, one most believe that the gov't is running a profitable business on law enforcement, not even including incarceration costs, this is very, very difficult to believe.

I'll go you one better. Most enforcement teams even have money left over at the end of the year from seized funds and share them with the rest of the agency. I hope that doesn't cause you to have a breakdown of some sort.

[soonerscuba]

The money spent on the war on drugs in almost entirely money that was seized from the dealers. Keep that in mind when making arguments for legalization.


I have dealt with and worked for several agencies. You calling me a liar won't change that. I said the drug enforcement teams are self funded and they are. They seize the vehicles carrying the drugs and auction them off as well. You trying to change the statement and trying to interject opinion is not "libertarian" but quite common with liberals.Nice moving goal post, nozzle. You have ZERO proof and a ******y attitude, congrats.

[SoonerProphet]

Have not come across very much info in the short amount of time. Still sounds like a crock.

http://www.fear.org/police.html

[C&CDean]

I wish someone here would post the numbers on the likelihood of someone becoming the above (addicted) via Mary Jane as opposed to the likelihodd of someone becoming an alkie and not much different from the above. It's not like drunks are major go-getters or something.

How many CEOs, military officers, big-time directors/producers, college presidents, highly successful, big wigs, etc. do you know that drink alcohol? A ton, right? How many do you know that smoke the weed? That's what I thought.

Of course there are the folks who end up in the gutter with the booze. And there's a lot of folks who don't end up in the gutter smoking weed. But none of that is what my point is all about. Alls I'm saying is that weed robs you of your drive, motivation, decision making ability, energy, etc. And NOT just when you're high. You can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be.

[TAFBSooner]

Cause I am not going to list non-public seizure records to some jackhole on a message board. If it is public info, look it up yourself since you asked for the information.

The fact that these seizure records are not public information means that the "enforcement units" are not fully accountable to the people they serve (nor even to the government they nominally report to). That's just one of the problems of asset forfeiture programs.

[Howzit]

How many CEOs, military officers, big-time directors/producers, college presidents, highly successful, big wigs, etc. do you know that drink alcohol? A ton, right? How many do you know that smoke the weed? That's what I thought.

Of course there are the folks who end up in the gutter with the booze. And there's a lot of folks who don't end up in the gutter smoking weed. But none of that is what my point is all about. Alls I'm saying is that weed robs you of your drive, motivation, decision making ability, energy, etc. And NOT just when you're high. You can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be.

How much of that is because it is illegal? I know a number of people that would/might partake of the doobage (tote up) if it were legal.

[C&CDean]

How much of that is because it is illegal? I know a number of people that would/might partake of the doobage (tote up) if it were legal.

My point exactly. Do we really need a ****pot more people floating around like flotsom on the water? "Tote up." Heh.

[Howzit]

You're argument is unpersuasive.

:D

There's lots of people that can't handle alcohol, and their lives suffer because of it. On the other hand, there's lots of prople that can.

Ditto pot, imo.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

My turn.

Srsly? Odds of addiction from second hand marijuana smoke?

Yes, I understand the government does this all the time. What I am saying is that in terms of making it illegal for someone to "tote up" in their own home, I disagree with.

Just my opinion. I don't see a big difference between pot and alcohol.

no idea, i'm indian and a ton of my family are alcoholics. proclivity to addiction has to be a concern with something like marijuana.

using crack, drinking underage, using non-prescribed prescription drugs, shooting people are all illegal in your home. like i said before, the mechanics of where marijuana is on the schedule of drugs is what makes it illegal. if you want to move it to schedule 2 "for use in the home" like it is in cali. i have no problem with that.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

sorry, had to run to a meeting, that should be "shooting people recreationally"

[C&CDean]

You're argument is unpersuasive.

:D

There's lots of people that can't handle alcohol, and their lives suffer because of it. On the other hand, there's lots of prople that can.

Ditto pot, imo.

Your opinion is poopy slop.

[Howzit]

no idea, i'm indian and a ton of my family are alcoholics. proclivity to addiction has to be a concern with something like marijuana.

using crack, drinking underage, using non-prescribed prescription drugs, shooting people are all illegal in your home. like i said before, the mechanics of where marijuana is on the schedule of drugs is what makes it illegal. if you want to move it to schedule 2 "for use in the home" like it is in cali. i have no problem with that.

Oh, well if it's my call...

http://whatitslikeontheinside.com/uploaded_images/Make-It-So-776665.jpg


And for the record, I'm ok with keeping all that other stuff illegal.

[Condescending Sooner]

The fact that these seizure records are not public information means that the "enforcement units" are not fully accountable to the people they serve (nor even to the government they nominally report to). That's just one of the problems of asset forfeiture programs.

Anytime money or property is seized, a notice is published in the paper in case someone has a claim of the property. Lots of opinions in here from people who are misinformed.

[SoonerProphet]

Anytime money or property is seized, a notice is published in the paper in case someone has a claim of the property. Lots of opinions in here from people who are misinformed.

We are still waiting on you to "inform" us. If you know the answers then show us, outside of that, you are just talking out your ***.

[Sooner_Havok]

How many CEOs, military officers, big-time directors/producers, college presidents, highly successful, big wigs, etc. do you know that drink alcohol? A ton, right? How many do you know that smoke the weed? That's what I thought.

Of course there are the folks who end up in the gutter with the booze. And there's a lot of folks who don't end up in the gutter smoking weed. But none of that is what my point is all about. Alls I'm saying is that weed robs you of your drive, motivation, decision making ability, energy, etc. And NOT just when you're high. You can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be.

http://blog.limewire.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/carl-sagan.jpg

[OklahomaTuba]

inform here: [email protected]

[C&CDean]

So you're saying Carl Sagan was a stoner? That explains a lot...

[SoonerProphet]

http://www.fear.org/tyranny.html

[Condescending Sooner]

http://www.fear.org/tyranny.html


A lot of old and outdated info in that article. All seizure accounts are audited yearly, money cannot be seized without drugs present, and all cases are heard before a judge.

Also since attorneys scan the paper for lists of seized property and cash, I can assure you any person that has something of value seized has the opportunity for counsel.

[Condescending Sooner]

We are still waiting on you to "inform" us. If you know the answers then show us, outside of that, you are just talking out your ***.

I have informed you. You have no idea what you are talking about, but it doesn't stop you from talking out your ***.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Oh God where do I start with this. I feel sorry for some of you people, really do.


fixed.

Hmmmm stereotyping pot users. That reminds me of something, what was it? Oh yeah, did everybody know that the banning of pot in the 30's was a racial issue? Don't believe me, ask Harry J. Anslinger who headed the Bureau of Narcotics what he had to say about pot.

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US,
and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers.
Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage.
This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations
with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

Great job there chief, glad you don't stereotype as well ;)


Not to mention the toll it would cost this country from increased crime, increased poverty, less economic competitiveness, and all the other social ills associated with rampant drug use.

You know I've heard the same thing about the 2nd amendment about more guns would mean more deaths, shootouts, and such. Those people are wrong. I thought you were conservative Tuba?


Admit it. You were the 50-something stoner in the crowd, right?

My whole deal with it isn't the legal/illegal issue. It's simply what effects weed has on users of the weed. If you smoke it, I can guarantee several things:

-You are apathetic
-You are functioning at a diminished level - and not just when stoned
-You are wasting days/weeks/years of your life existing in a numbing cocoon that is robbing you of your potential
-You are eating way too many nacho cheese doritos and donuts

All drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) will kill you eventually. Weed - of all the illicit drugs - kills you insidiously slowly. No, you won't be laying in a dirty alleyway with a rusty needle hanging out of your arm, or blowing your brains out after a week-long coke binge comes to an end and you can't handle the post-coke depression. You won't have all your teeth fall out and end up getting shot by a neighbor for breaking into his house trying to find $$ for meth. However, you will be a shell of what you could be, and watching young people slowly waste their lives away is just as sad as somebody ODing on smack.

http://natgaswatcher.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/broken-record-765056.jpg


How many CEOs, military officers, big-time directors/producers, college presidents, highly successful, big wigs, etc. do you know that drink alcohol? A ton, right? How many do you know that smoke the weed? That's what I thought. Alls I'm saying is that weed robs you of your drive, motivation, decision making ability, energy, etc. And NOT just when you're high. You can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be.

Bob Denver? Thomas Jefferson? Steve Jobs? George Washington? Ben Franklin? Clarence Thomas? The Beatles? The Rolling Stones? Lewis Armstrong?

Don't believe me? Well how about...
Irvin Rosenfeld, a 56-year-old stockbroker from Ft. Lauderdale, Fl has smoked over 115,000th joints that are SUPPLIED BY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/man-sets-marijuana-record-smokes-115000-joints-provided/story?id=9159281)

Hey lets not forget Albert Hofmann. You know the guy who found LSD and used it daily thousands of times and didn't die and was in his right mind until....102.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Happiness. You can be happy and smoke a cigar on your porch, get drunk when you get off work, but STAY THE **** AWAY FROM POT!!!

Hypocritical *clap clap clap clap clap*

[85Sooner]

Alcohol is legal and we see daily how well and responsibly people use it. Lets just compound the situation.

[picasso]

Oh God where do I start with this. I feel sorry for some of you people, really do.



Hmmmm stereotyping pot users. That reminds me of something, what was it? Oh yeah, did everybody know that the banning of pot in the 30's was a racial issue? Don't believe me, ask Harry J. Anslinger who headed the Bureau of Narcotics what he had to say about pot.

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US,
and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers.
Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage.
This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations
with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

Great job there chief, glad you don't stereotype as well ;)



You know I've heard the same thing about the 2nd amendment about more guns would mean more deaths, shootouts, and such. Those people are wrong. I thought you were conservative Tuba?



http://natgaswatcher.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/broken-record-765056.jpg



Bob Denver? Thomas Jefferson? Steve Jobs? George Washington? Ben Franklin? Clarence Thomas? The Beatles? The Rolling Stones? Lewis Armstrong?

Don't believe me? Well how about...
Irvin Rosenfeld, a 56-year-old stockbroker from Ft. Lauderdale, Fl has smoked over 115,000th joints that are SUPPLIED BY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/man-sets-marijuana-record-smokes-115000-joints-provided/story?id=9159281)

Hey lets not forget Albert Hofmann. You know the guy who found LSD and used it daily thousands of times and didn't die and was in his right mind until....102.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Happiness. You can be happy and smoke a cigar on your porch, get drunk when you get off work, but STAY THE **** AWAY FROM POT!!!

Hypocritical *clap clap clap clap clap*

Geez man I was kidding. You know you've made it in life when you get offended by folks making fun of potheads.
Yeah, I smoked weed for a while in 9th and 10th grade. Did wonders for my academics and athletic events.
I can go down a list of stud athletes I grew up with who wasted away in a funk of bunk assed weed. Yeah, a few still made D-1 ball but it hampered them more than they admitted it.


Smoke away dude.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Geez man I was kidding. You know you've made it in life when you get offended by folks making fun of potheads.

Smoke away dude.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to jump on you.

I just get sick of people who look down at others from their high horse. Do I smoke? No but I have. Do I have friends that smoke? Yes and they are NOT idiots, living in a basement, stinky clothes, and have dead end jobs. They are good people are I feel are demonized wrongly. Yes, they're smoking an illegal drug but then again drinking before 21 is illegal and yet most here have seemed to have done it.


Alcohol is legal and we see daily how well and responsibly people use it. Lets just compound the situation.


1. Marijuana is far less addictive than alcohol.

http://www.saferchoice.org/images/SAFER/comparingdangers.png

2. Deaths from the two substances. There are hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths each year, yet there has never been a marijuana overdose death in history. The consumption of alcohol is also the direct cause of tens of thousands of deaths in the U.S. each year.

In 2001, there were 331 alcohol overdose deaths and 0 marijuana overdose deaths. Source: U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC). http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm

Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States (1) and is associated with multiple adverse health consequences, including liver cirrhosis, various cancers, unintentional injuries, and violence.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported 20,687 “alcohol-induced deaths” (excluding accidents and homicides) in 2003. Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/alcohol.htm

The CDC has no reports of “marijuana-induced deaths.” (In reality, there may be 2-5 deaths each year attributed to marijuana, but this article -- http://bbsnews.net/bw2005-02-01.html -- describes how these are actually deaths attributable to other causes but “blamed” on marijuana due to the way the data is collected.)

3. Alcohol is one of the most toxic drugs, and using just 10 times what one would use to get the desired effect can lead to death. Marijuana is one of – if not the – least toxic drugs, requiring thousands times the dose one would use to get the desired effect to lead to death. This “thousands times” is actually theoretical, since there has never been a recorded case of marijuana overdose.

Source: The American Scientist, the Magazine of Sigma Xi, the Scientific Research Society. http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/50773?&print=y

4. Long-term marijuana use is far less harmful than long-term alcohol use.


There is little evidence, however, that long-term cannabis use causes permanent cognitive impairment, nor is there is any clear cause and effect relationship to explain the psychosocial associations.

There are some physical health risks, particularly the possibility of damage to the airways in cannabis smokers. Overall, by comparison with other drugs used mainly for ‘recreational’ purposes, cannabis could be rated to be a relatively safe drug.

Source: Iversen, Leslie. Current Opinion in Pharmacology. Volume 5, Issue 1, February 2005, Pages 69-72. Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis. University of Oxford, Department of Pharmacology.

5. The United Kingdom's Science and Technology Select Committee considers alcohol far more harmful than marijuana.

http://www.saferchoice.org/images/SAFER/newscien.jpg

Source: New Scientist Magazine. Issue 2563. August 2006, page 5. Drug-danger 'league table' revealed.

6. There has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, and recent studies find that marijuana use is not associated with any type of cancer. The same cannot be said for alcohol, which has been found to contribute to a variety of long-term negative health effects, including cancers and cirrhosis of the liver.

t could be interesting to note in the chart the difference between what people usually consider the most likely serious harms associated with marijuana and alcohol. While there has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, there are clearly thousands of deaths by liver disease directly associated with alcohol – 12,360 in 2003, to be exact. [See, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/alcohol.htm . Note also on this page that “alcoholic liver disease” is a separate category from “alcohol-induced deaths, excluding accidents and homicides.” Thus the 20,687 cited in #2 (as “deaths from alcohol consumption” could easily be 33,047.]

7. Studies find alcohol use contributes to the likelihood of domestic violence and sexual assault and marijuana use does not.

Of the psychoactive substances examined, among individuals who were chronic partner abusers, the use of alcohol and cocaine was associated with significant increases in the daily likelihood of male-to-female physical aggression; cannabis and opiates were not significantly associated with an increased likelihood of male partner violence.

…the odds of any male-to-female physical aggression were more than 8 times (11 times) higher on days when men drank than on days of no alcohol consumption. The odds of severe male-to-female physical aggression were more than 11 times (11 times) higher on days of men’s drinking than on days of no drinking. Moreover, in both samples, over 60% of all episodes occurred within 2 hours of drinking by the male partner. (page 1557)

Source: Fals-Stewart , William, James Golden, Julie A. Schumacher. Journal of Addictive Behaviors. 28, pages 1555-1574. Intimate partner violence and substance use: A longitudinal day-to-day examination. Research Institute on Addictions, University at Buffalo, State University of New York

8. Studies find alcohol use contributes to aggressive behavior and acts of violence, whereas marijuana use reduces the likelihood of violent behavior.

Source: Hoaken, Peter N.S., Sherry H. Stewart. Journal of Addictive Behaviors. 28, pages 1533-1554. Drugs of abuse and the elicitation of human aggressive behavior. Dept. of Psychology, University of Western Ontario. Dept. of of Psychiatry, Dalhousie University.

9. Alcohol use is highly associated with violent crime, whereas marijuana use is not.

About 3 million violent crimes occur each year in which victims perceive the offender to have been drinking at the time of the offense.

Two-thirds of victims who suffered violence by an intimate (a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend) reported that alcohol had been a factor.

Among spouse victims, 3 out of 4 incidents were reported to have involved an offender who had been drinking.

Source: U.S. Department of Justice. Bureau of Justice Statistics. National Crime Victimization Survey 2002.

10. Alcohol use is a catalyst for domestic violence in Denver.

Alcohol is involved in nearly 50 percent of all domestic violence cases in Denver, and the use of alcohol by the perpetrator is a predominant factor in fatal cases of domestic violence.

Marijuana is not mentioned as a correlating or causal factor in cases of domestic violence in Denver.

Source: Abrams, Margaret L., Joanne Belknap, Heather C. Melton. When Domestic Violence Kills: The Formation and Findings of the Denver Metro Domestic Violence Fatality Review Committee. March 2001.

11. Alcohol use is prevalent in cases of sexual assault and date rape on college campuses. Marijuana use is not considered a contributing factor in cases of sexual assault and date rape, as judged by the lack of discussion of marijuana in sexual assault and date rape educational materials.

A Harvard School of Public Heath study found that 72 percent of college rapes occurred when the female was too intoxicated by alcohol to resist/consent. Source: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/cas/Documents/rapeintox-pressRelease/

Comparisons between alcohol and marijuana with respect to sexual assault are very difficult. This is because it does not appear as if marijuana is a significant contributing factor. The best way to "prove" this is through observation that many organizations dedicated to studying and educating about sexual assault do not list marijuana as a substance associated with incidents. Here is a good example from the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network: http://www.rainn.org/types-of-assault/sexual-assault/drug-facilitated-assault.html

Note their description of alcohol: "Alcohol is the most commonly used chemical in drug facilitated sexual assault. In large part this is due to the fact that alcohol is easily accessible and a chemical that many people use in social interactions." Given the fact that marijuana is also "easily accessible" and used widely in "social interactions," it is quite telling that marijuana is not even listed at all on this "Drug Facilitated Assault" page.

Another example: A Web site sponsored by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services lists alcohol, but not marijuana, as putting a person at risk for unwanted or risky sexual activity: http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rohypnol.htm#5


http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

:pop:

[SoonerProphet]

I have informed you. You have no idea what you are talking about, but it doesn't stop you from talking out your ***.

Your word carries about as much as mine, that is it doesn't. Post a link or stfu.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Your word carries about as much as mine, that is it doesn't. Post a link or stfu.**** off pole smoker, er..I mean doob smoker

[SoonerProphet]

**** off pole smoker, er..I mean doob smoker

way to add to the thread and your keen insight into such matters is always a nice touch.

your stalker like behavior freaks me way the **** out.

[Turd_Ferguson]

way to add to the thread and your keen insight into such matters is always a nice touch.

your stalker like behavior freaks me way the **** out.excuse me mr thread adder toer. stalker? really? really??

[Condescending Sooner]

Your word carries about as much as mine, that is it doesn't. Post a link or stfu.

I have worked for and with enforcement agencies and you haven't. What "link" are you talking about? It's ok to admit you don't know everything. You don't argue with me about drug seizure procedures and figures and I won't argue with you about the effects of smoking weed and living in your parents basement, OK?

[SoonerProphet]

I have worked for and with enforcement agencies and you haven't. What "link" are you talking about? It's ok to admit you don't know everything. You don't argue with me about drug seizure procedures and figures and I won't argue with you about the effects of smoking weed and living in your parents basement, OK?

cute and so on target, kinda like most of the crap you have posted in this thread. while i appreciate your appeals to authority, i still have not seen any tangible evidence of your assertion. which i assume is a vast majority of federal, state, and local law enforcement budgets allocated to drug enforcement are made up by forfeiture assets. not to mention the ethical efficacy of cops making a profit.

show me one report, hell, one editorial, that discusses the issue of bugets and forfeiture.

[Turd_Ferguson]

:rolleyes:
(http://frattinghard.com/wp-content/uploads/******8.jpg)

[Ardmore_Sooner]

http://m.npr.org/story/91490480

Boy the innerwebs are tough.

[SoonerProphet]

http://m.npr.org/story/91490480

Boy the innerwebs are tough.

yep, came across that one. not exactly an endorsement of the practice.

[soonerscuba]

yep, came across that one. not exactly an endorsement of the practice.The congressional outlays are in the billions year to year, not including specific programs like the famous allocation of four and a half billion spent on Colombia alone in the 2000s. Once again, I am okay with a person suggesting that individual enforcement teams can finance themselves, but to say that the War on Drugs is a budget neutral endeavor is utter and complete bull****.

[starclassic tama]

How many CEOs, military officers, big-time directors/producers, college presidents, highly successful, big wigs, etc. do you know that drink alcohol? A ton, right? How many do you know that smoke the weed? That's what I thought.

Of course there are the folks who end up in the gutter with the booze. And there's a lot of folks who don't end up in the gutter smoking weed. But none of that is what my point is all about. Alls I'm saying is that weed robs you of your drive, motivation, decision making ability, energy, etc. And NOT just when you're high. You can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be.

i know more than a handful of doctors that smoke pot, and have never been in trouble or had any malpractice lawsuits against them. now, they don't smoke daily, but still. i also know people that own very succesful businesses in my hometown that smoke pot. you can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be? that might be the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. i will agree that if someone smokes a lot of pot they are definitely going to be lazy and less driven. but anyone who can say that alcohol should be legal and pot illegal is just full of crap, or not very bright. they should either both be legal, or both be illegal.

[TUSooner]

How many CEOs, military officers, big-time directors/producers, college presidents, highly successful, big wigs, etc. do you know that drink alcohol? A ton, right? How many do you know that smoke the weed? That's what I thought.

Of course there are the folks who end up in the gutter with the booze. And there's a lot of folks who don't end up in the gutter smoking weed. But none of that is what my point is all about. Alls I'm saying is that weed robs you of your drive, motivation, decision making ability, energy, etc. And NOT just when you're high. You can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be.

I generally agree with Dean about reefer's potential effect over time. I have some, uhhh... personal knowledge on the subject. And it's what I've tried to impressed on my now-nearly-adult children. Of course, it's hard if not impossible to determine what someone would have been "but for" all those joints they smoked their freshman year, or --much less -- "but for" the doob they smoked on the third Friday of last June.
Also I seem to recall studies indicating that "slackers" (for lack of better term to describe Dean's chronic underachievers) smoke reefer because they are "slack prone" anyway. Thus, smoking reefer may be an effect of being a slacker rather than a cause therefore. I also have know people of whom it could be said, "If that's what happens to you when you smoke weed, then smoking it should be mandatory."

But to me the bottom line is not whether smoking weed it is bad; it's how society wants to deal with it. That's what government and public policy are really about, and it goes for all kinds of things that may be bad or immoral. We know alcohol causes massive damage to individuals and society, but we tried Prohibition, and all we really got was oraganized crime. Another somewhat extreme example: I happen to believe abortion is immoral, but I don't therefore think that we should impose the death penalty on teenage girls who have abortions.

[C&CDean]

i know more than a handful of doctors that smoke pot, and have never been in trouble or had any malpractice lawsuits against them. now, they don't smoke daily, but still. i also know people that own very succesful businesses in my hometown that smoke pot. you can smoke once a week and still be half of what you could be? that might be the dumbest thing anyone has ever said. i will agree that if someone smokes a lot of pot they are definitely going to be lazy and less driven. but anyone who can say that alcohol should be legal and pot illegal is just full of crap, or not very bright. they should either both be legal, or both be illegal.

Every pothead I know says this exact same thing. "I know tons of successful people who smoke weed." No you don't. There's a lot of folks who've never smoked pot and say the same thing too. I discount these folks because they simply don't have a clue. Until you've walked a mile in my moccasins and all? Anyhow, you may know some folks who've managed to "succeed?" and they smoke pot, but you don't know many of them, and it's all about what "succeed" means.

I know this **** from firsthand experience. Lots of folks would have called me "successful" back in my ganja days too. I had a good job, kids, a home, new trucks, and the bills all got paid (until I got heavily into cocaine but that's another story for another day). Now there were some problems (like no sick leave or annual leave accrued cause I used it all, and not getting - or even seeking - a promotion at work, etc.), but for the most part it was all good. When I flipped the switch on the wall, the lights came on, when I opened the fridge there was lots of food, so it was all good. That's how a pothead thinks.

I smoked that **** for nearly 20 years. Within one year of the day I quit smoking weed I was working on a degree, got promoted twice at work, didn't miss a day (and other than surgery, still haven't missed a day since 1987 - over a year and a half of accrued sick leave right now). Within 5 years of quitting the weed I had more than tripled my salary, finished an undergrad degree while working full time and parenting 3 kids. I have managed to save $$, buy a farm, own close to $1M in farming equipment (only owing $$ on one tractor right now) finish a Master's degree, and prepare myself fully for a lucrative retirement by age 55.

My only regret was that I started that crap in the first place. I never finished the 9th grade because of weed. Without weed, I know I would have thrived, and I have thrived, but I wasted almost 20 ****ing years living in a haze.

I'm not arguing legal vs. illegal. I'm not arguing pot vs. alcohol. I'm simply stating the facts. And the facts are that weed is nothing more than a giant anchor that drags you down. Simple as that.

[TopDawg]

Every pothead I know says this exact same thing. "I know tons of successful people who smoke weed." No you don't. There's a lot of folks who've never smoked pot and say the same thing too. I discount these folks because they simply don't have a clue. Until you've walked a mile in my moccasins and all? Anyhow, you may know some folks who've managed to "succeed?" and they smoke pot, but you don't know many of them, and it's all about what "succeed" means.

I know this **** from firsthand experience. Lots of folks would have called me "successful" back in my ganja days too. I had a good job, kids, a home, new trucks, and the bills all got paid (until I got heavily into cocaine but that's another story for another day). Now there were some problems (like no sick leave or annual leave accrued cause I used it all, and not getting - or even seeking - a promotion at work, etc.), but for the most part it was all good. When I flipped the switch on the wall, the lights came on, when I opened the fridge there was lots of food, so it was all good. That's how a pothead thinks.

I smoked that **** for nearly 20 years. Within one year of the day I quit smoking weed I was working on a degree, got promoted twice at work, didn't miss a day (and other than surgery, still haven't missed a day since 1987 - over a year and a half of accrued sick leave right now). Within 5 years of quitting the weed I had more than tripled my salary, finished an undergrad degree while working full time and parenting 3 kids. I have managed to save $$, buy a farm, own close to $1M in farming equipment (only owing $$ on one tractor right now) finish a Master's degree, and prepare myself fully for a lucrative retirement by age 55.

My only regret was that I started that crap in the first place. I never finished the 9th grade because of weed. Without weed, I know I would have thrived, and I have thrived, but I wasted almost 20 ****ing years living in a haze.

I'm not arguing legal vs. illegal. I'm not arguing pot vs. alcohol. I'm simply stating the facts. And the facts are that weed is nothing more than a giant anchor that drags you down. Simple as that.

Imagine how much more you (and everyone else here) could've accomplished if you (or we) would've never logged on to Soonerfans.com. Maybe posting on the internet should be illegal. ;)

[C&CDean]

Imagine how much more you (and everyone else here) could've accomplished if you (or we) would've never logged on to Soonerfans.com. Maybe posting on the internet should be illegal. ;)

Rocket surgeons, one and all I'm thinking.

[TopDawg]

All joking aside, I think you're right that people who abuse marijuana will find it to be a giant anchor that drags them down, just like people who abuse alcohol find it to be a giant anchor that drags them down. You could go to just about any bar in the world and find people living the life you described when you were smoking pot. Similarly, you could find hundreds upon thousands of people who turned their lives around like you did when they stopped using alcohol.

And just as there are people who avoid most of the dangers of alcohol by using it responsibly, I imagine there are people who avoid most of the dangers of marijuana by using it responsibly. Like just about everything, the amount of use that makes it dangerous differs for everybody.

My rough draft thoughts: I'd like to see the laws changed so that responsible use is legal but the punishment for irresponsible use (for alcohol, marijuana, whatever) is more harsh. What's irresponsible? I'm generally okay with the way it's defined for alcohol where the more likely you are to injure someone else, the more irresponsible you're being and the more harsh your punishment is.

[C&CDean]

Speaking of harsh, I picked up about 20 kilos of some Oaxacan weed one time in Nogales. That **** was harsh.

Like I said, it's not a booze vs. pot issue. They can both ruin your life if you go overboard. But if you've gotta take it there then let me say this:

Hundreds of thousands - perhaps millions - of folks can casually use alcohol and still perform at a extremely high level. The difference is that weed affects the brain/nervous system/etc. in a different way. Even when you're not high, but you've got thc floating around in your system, you are dulled. Your drive and motivation is geared back into neutral. I damn sure ain't a scientist, but I've spilled more weed than most people have ever smoked in my life. I lived around it daily for decades. I know what it does to you, and what it does is make you an apathetic half-stepper.

[Explodo]

Essentialy, it makes you ok with being bored. Which is a bad thing.

[SteelClip49]

Senator Coburn just got done lecturing to the medical students. I shall watch the lecture soon and hopefully gain some insight :)

[TopDawg]

Hundreds of thousands - perhaps millions - of folks can casually use alcohol and still perform at a extremely high level. The difference is that weed affects the brain/nervous system/etc. in a different way. Even when you're not high, but you've got thc floating around in your system, you are dulled. Your drive and motivation is geared back into neutral. I damn sure ain't a scientist, but I've spilled more weed than most people have ever smoked in my life. I lived around it daily for decades. I know what it does to you, and what it does is make you an apathetic half-stepper.

Well, I'm not a scientist either, so we'd be wise to defer to an expert on the matter. But are you speaking strictly from your own experience? Because if you smoked an *ssload of marijuana when you were younger, it's quite possible that the thc floating around in your system when you weren't high affected you quite differently than someone who just lights up every now and then.

I'm not trying to pass myself off as any kind of expert on the effects of marijuana or the extent of marijuana use in our culture, but I'm inclined to think that there are also millions of people who can use marijuana casually and still perform at an extremely high level.

[Howzit]

I declare TopDawg the winner.

[homerSimpsonsBrain]

Speaking of harsh, I picked up about 20 kilos of some Oaxacan weed one time in Nogales. That **** was harsh....

... I know what it does to you, and what it does is make you an apathetic half-stepper.

Sorry man. But if you were picking up 20 kilos of weed, you were NOT an apathetic half-stepper.

:eek:

[TUSooner]

Sorry man. But if you were picking up 20 kilos of weed, you were NOT an apathetic half-stepper.

:eek:

That made me laugh.

[C&CDean]

I declare TopDawg the winner.

Who are you again? Cheech, or Chong?

TD makes a cogent point, however, I wasn't only referring to my own experience with the weed. I hung out with a LOT of potheads over the years, and basically they all share the same problem - although to varying degrees.

Here's some other personal examples (and examples of other folks I've known over the years):

Kids in school. Getting straight A's. Kinnygarten all the way through 11th grade. Summer between 11 & 12 kid starts hanging with Howzit and the boys and starts toking the weed. Senior year, kid starts bringing in Cs and Ds, tardies, missed days, general "I don't give a ****" attitude, etc. Seen it a hundred times. Some kids go completely off and drop out, etc.

Employees at work (some of my old coworkers). Normal, everyday adults who go to the bar and have a few pitchers of beer on Friday after work, maybe a cocktail or two with dinner, etc. One day, somebody named Howzit stops by and goes "y'all need to try some of this ****." They do, dig it, and in 6 months you start seeing spotty attendance, a lacksadaisical attitude, and an overall change to an apathetic person who doesn't even resemble the go-getter who was working there 6 months ago. I've seen it people.

In the Army. Bright eyed young paratroopers all full of **** and vinegar ready to go kill Charlie com. Howzit, the barracks bong boy, turns them on to some fine purple haired bud he copped from his butt-lover in LA. Within 6 months they've gotten their tit in a wringer for being late to formation or not getting their hair cut or any other little mundane military rule gets broken, and many of them start getting the FTA (**** the army) attitude, and I've personally seen 10-15 of them get themselves 86'd right the **** out. Some with dishonorables, some with generals.

Several of my friends from jr. high and high school. I return to Tucson every couple years and run into some of them. It's amazing. The ones who quit the weed (we ALL smoked that **** in the late 60's/early 70's) all have great gigs, retirements lined up, successful kids, etc. The ones who still smoke the weed? Not so much. One character I hung with in the day ran into me while in Sam's Tavern shooting pool. He goes "Dean? Is that you buddy?" I go "yeah it's me Daryl, how have you been?" "Good man, wanna shoot some pool?" "Yeah, let's play." I break, make a couple shots, and he looks up and goes "Dean, is that you man?" ****er didn't even remember seeing me 2 minutes before. I asked him "so what do you do these days Daryl?" "Oh, same old ****, hanging drywall and ****." Dude looked 70. He's not the only one like that I've ran into.

Anyhow, smoke the **** if you think it's righteous. Just expect to wake up in 10 years and go "wtf did I do with the last 10 years of my life?" And this is only if you wake up.

[C&CDean]

Sorry man. But if you were picking up 20 kilos of weed, you were NOT an apathetic half-stepper.

:eek:

Dude, I made a living when I dropped out of high school with weed. That and stealing car stereos and ****. I can't count the number of times I sat at the border crossing in Nogales with a bunch of keys jammed under the seats. Yeah, I was a ****ing idiot.

[Howzit]

Who are you again? Cheech, or Chong?

Kids in school. Getting straight A's. Kinnygarten all the way through 11th grade. Summer between 11 & 12 kid starts hanging with Howzit and the boys and starts toking the weed. Senior year, kid starts bringing in Cs and Ds, tardies, missed days, general "I don't give a ****" attitude, etc. Seen it a hundred times. Some kids go completely off and drop out, etc.

Employees at work (some of my old coworkers). Normal, everyday adults who go to the bar and have a few pitchers of beer on Friday after work, maybe a cocktail or two with dinner, etc. One day, somebody named Howzit stops by and goes "y'all need to try some of this ****." They do, dig it, and in 6 months you start seeing spotty attendance, a lacksadaisical attitude, and an overall change to an apathetic person who doesn't even resemble the go-getter who was working there 6 months ago. I've seen it people.

In the Army. Bright eyed young paratroopers all full of **** and vinegar ready to go kill Charlie com. Howzit, the barracks bong boy, turns them on to some fine purple haired bud he copped from his butt-lover in LA. Within 6 months they've gotten their tit in a wringer for being late to formation or not getting their hair cut or any other little mundane military rule gets broken, and many of them start getting the FTA (**** the army) attitude, and I've personally seen 10-15 of them get themselves 86'd right the **** out. Some with dishonorables, some with generals.

Several of my friends from jr. high and high school. I return to Tucson every couple years and run into some of them. It's amazing. The ones who quit the weed (we ALL smoked that **** in the late 60's/early 70's) all have great gigs, retirements lined up, successful kids, etc. The ones who still smoke the weed? Not so much. One character I hung with in the day ran into me while in Sam's Tavern shooting pool. He goes "Dean? Is that you buddy?" I go "yeah it's me Daryl, how have you been?" "Good man, wanna shoot some pool?" "Yeah, let's play." I break, make a couple shots, and he looks up and goes "Dean, is that you man?" ****er didn't even remember seeing me 2 minutes before. I asked him "so what do you do these days Daryl?" "Oh, same old ****, hanging drywall and ****." Dude looked 70. He's not the only one like that I've ran into.

Anyhow, smoke the **** if you think it's righteous. Just expect to wake up in 10 years and go "wtf did I do with the last 10 years of my life?" And this is only if you wake up.

For the record, probably more of a Chong.

But you're pretty off-base on everything else concerning me personally, thank you very much.

I smoked the stuff in high school, and agree with you on it making you lazy. In fact, it played a big part in why I slacked off of both school and swimming, and why scholarship offers made my junior year disappeared. Chalk it up to a life lesson.

Went into the Army because I knew I needed someone to put a boot up my *** and give me time to mature before going to college, and Uncle Sam was more than happy to oblige. Never sold to kindergartners let alone anyone else, that was apparently your shtick. Other soldiers that got their titty in a ringer did it without my help, they were grown adults.

I quit, like you, because I recognized the consequences and knew I was better off without it.

But do I think the jails should be full of young kids that got caught with a few grams of pot? No.

Do I think we should confine them with a prison full of other losers that did a lot worse stuff? No.

Do I think we should be ruining lives because someone gets nailed for a little smoke? No.

Now, excuse me while I go make mean faces at your user profile.

[TopDawg]

There's a lot Dean and I don't agree on but I love hearing his stories.

Anyway, do/did the guys in the examples you're talking about smoke a whole lot of weed? You call them "potheads" which to me sounds like the equivalent of "alcoholic." But I think the experiences of recreational smokers would be different from potheads in the same way that the experiences of recreational drinkers would be different from alcoholics.

The examples you gave seem perfectly reasonable (and we've all seen them) if you substitute alcohol for marijuana. People are go-getters until booze gets its hooks into them and then they're not the same person. Yeah, a lot of people handle a little booze without it really affecting their life that much, but don't a lot of people handle a little marijuana without it really affecting their life that much?

It might sound like I'm supporting the legalization of marijuana, but I really don't care one way or the other. I just don't see the rationale behind having a different set of laws governing alcohol and marijuana. If that means we outlaw alcohol, so be it. If it means we legalize marijuana, so be it.

[C&CDean]

Who loves ya Howziepoo? That's right, big daddy...

I hear what you're saying TD, but what I don't think you're getting is that weed and booze are different types of drugs. I can catch a good alcohol buzz on Friday and Saturday night, sober up on Sunday, and be good to go Monday - Friday. I can smoke some killer redbud on Friday and Saturday, sober up on Sunday, and forget where I put my car keys, what time the kids were supposed to be picked up, and leave the milk outta the fridge Monday - Friday. The residual effects of marijuana are the problem. No, folks aren't "high" M-F, but they're affected. They're impaired. They're not operating at 100%.

As for all the legal crap Howzie is worried about I don't really have an opinion. Other than to say that if legalizing it means a lot more folks are gonna smoke it then I'm deadset against it. Also, I don't think I'm ruining anyone's life. If you get caught with the weed and go to jail, that's your fault, not mine. Until the laws change, the laws are the law.

[TopDawg]

Well, you're right that I don't really have a good grasp of how marijuana can affect you but I've seen firsthand how alcohol can destroy people and it seems to me that the worst alcoholic stories are more horrific than the worst pothead stories because you're still able to function highly.

But you could be dead-on right that a little bit of marijuana has more long-lasting effects than a little bit of alcohol and that's definitely an important point in the discussion.

[IronHorseSooner]

Coburn spoke in Tulsa yesterday. Here (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20100112_16_A14_SenTom60662&archive=yes) is a article on what he said.

In a nutshell, Coburn is sick of partisan b!tching and blames Congress for the crap situation we are in now, not President Bush or President Obama.

As an independent, and someone who has had to fight for budgets going all the way up to Congress, I can absolutely agree with him. They cut vital programs to fund their own pork. Both sides do it, and both Houses of Congress do it. I believe it was OUr own Will Rogers who once said that the opposite of progress was Congress.

[GKeeper316]

The money spent on the war on drugs in almost entirely money that was seized from the dealers. Keep that in mind when making arguments for legalization.

not true.

[GKeeper316]

Admit it. You were the 50-something stoner in the crowd, right?

My whole deal with it isn't the legal/illegal issue. It's simply what effects weed has on users of the weed. If you smoke it, I can guarantee several things:

-You are apathetic
-You are functioning at a diminished level - and not just when stoned
-You are wasting days/weeks/years of your life existing in a numbing cocoon that is robbing you of your potential
-You are eating way too many nacho cheese doritos and donuts

All drugs (including alcohol and nicotine) will kill you eventually. Weed - of all the illicit drugs - kills you insidiously slowly. No, you won't be laying in a dirty alleyway with a rusty needle hanging out of your arm, or blowing your brains out after a week-long coke binge comes to an end and you can't handle the post-coke depression. You won't have all your teeth fall out and end up getting shot by a neighbor for breaking into his house trying to find $$ for meth. However, you will be a shell of what you could be, and watching young people slowly waste their lives away is just as sad as somebody ODing on smack.

-i am not apathetic. i vote. i pay my taxes. i stay informed of any major issues concerning my community, and try to help those that need help, when they need it.

-the only drugs available to treat ADD are amphetamines, developed by the nazis during ww2. recently it has been shown that in addition to helping cancer patients get through the nuasea of chemo, marijuana can be used as a safe and effective treatment of ADD... it doesnt have to be smoked to work by the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g8zskdxOPg

-proove it. i am a working adult with a great job and have missed a grand total of 1 scheduled day of work in the last 10 years because of a bad roast beef sandwich the night before.

-i havnt put on any weight in over 15 years. since the day i was discharged from the marines ive been right at 200 lbs (give or take 5-10 lbs because of thanksgiving etc)

and let me just say this... the only reason marijuana is illegal in america is because a newspaper publisher in the 30s named william randolph hearst didnt like mexicans. true story.

i smoke almost every day.

[PDXsooner]

Weed - of all the illicit drugs - kills you insidiously slowly.

even if you do it once or twice a year? no chance.

fast food kills you at a pretty fast rate as well. should that be illegal?

[GKeeper316]

breathing oxygen is what causes people to age and die, but we dont ban air.

obesity is a far greater threat to public health than drugs but we dont limit how much food people are allowed to eat.

saying weed is "bad" is a blind blanket statement not based in fact and perpetuated by the partnership for a drug free america, which, incidentally, is just a lobbying arm of the prescription medication and alcohol industries... do you really think they want to put zoloft in competition with marijuana? they'd lose. they know they'd lose, so they spend hundreds of millions of dollars annually conning people into believing what they want you to believe.