Adam James escorted off the field by security guards

[MamaMia]

before the half even ends while being booed.

[Petro-Sooner]

NICE

[salth2o]

wonder why ESPiN did not show that?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Overdramatic hysterics much?

[delhalew]

He's lucky they don't sell beer in a bottle down there.

[Crucifax Autumn]

But the announcers say him and daddy are extremely courageous!

[Blues1]

espn say's ----Death threats to Craig James and family...?
If true...?
Then this Shiiiit is getting out of hand....
If Not...?
Then ..?
jmho ~~~ Probably should never been said over National Tv to begin with....!

[Hot Rod]

But the announcers say him and daddy are extremely courageous!

Only when confined in small areas.

[delhalew]

And they're determined to keep saying it until be believe it.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Someone on a messageboard probably said something like "I'd like to kill that little rat" and now they are running with it and hiring security and acting like chicken****s.

[Leroy Lizard]

They need to keep people from getting hurt, first and foremost.

[Crucifax Autumn]

This is true, but I also think the odds of anything happening are pretty slim. As in NOT gonna happen.

[Leroy Lizard]

Well, it doesn't hurt to be on the safe side. Frankly, I would have had him run in with the rest of the team.

[Soonerus]

ESPN's spin is sooooo gross !!!

[bluedogok]

I would bet there is a certain amount of embellishment going on as well.

[recemp]

I'm retreating to the safety of my electrical closet

[setem]

This will blow over soon enough! While it lasts thought James and Son need to be given as much **** as possible!

[Soonerus]

This will blow over soon enough! While it lasts thought James and Son need to be given as much **** as possible!

I agree it is called "consequences"...

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm not sure Adam has done much wrong here. AFAIK, this got blown out of proportion by others.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Adam James:

http://thumb11.shutterstock.com.edgesuite.net/display_pic_with_logo/91282/91282,1251886425,4/stock-photo-baby-man-with-pacifier-in-mouth-looking-at-camera-over-white-background-36344764.jpg

[bluedogok]

I'm not sure Adam has done much wrong here.
Other than being a lazy, spoiled brat, who probably embellished his story, he hasn't.


AFAIK, this got blown out of proportion by others.
That is for sure, others have used him for their own gains. Namely the Tech administration and ESPN. I wouldn't be surprised when this is over both of the James' are gone from their current locations.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I wouldn't be surprised when this is over both of the James' are gone from their current locations.

We can hope.

[olevetonahill]

before the half even ends while being booed.

Where you see this Mom ? I dozed off on the couch :O

[Crucifax Autumn]

Adam's favorite shirt:

http://rlv.zcache.com/wuss_tshirt-p235730283610404229t5zv_210.jpg

[olevetonahill]

I did notice at 1st when they showed hikm , he was hangin with the same 2 peeps every time .

[Crucifax Autumn]

One was his boyfriend. The other is some dude they picked up to play with in SA.

[badger]

I assume you've all seen this already... if not, NSFW:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Although, it's possible you haven't - it only has a few hundred views. It might be newly posted. Watch it before they take it down. Quick!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Adam's plight inspired a magazine topic:

http://macleans.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/maccov10_31_05.jpg

[setem]

I'm not sure Adam has done much wrong here. AFAIK, this got blown out of proportion by others.

Sure he has! He is a big boy and could have taken a stand for his coach and teammates! Instead of just dealing with the situation like level headed humans they felt the need to put the blame on someone else instead of facing up to the fact that adam and his dad are a ***** deluxe combo with a side of GAY!

[olevetonahill]

Greatness
Sounds like Mike got fed the **** up with Him and His DADDY

[Blues1]

I assume you've all seen this already... if not, NSFW:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Although, it's possible you haven't - it only has a few hundred views. It might be newly posted. Watch it before they take it down. Quick!

This Must be Before the concussion he's got his helmet on - and where are the Sun Glasses..This could have been taken in Sept for all we know...

[badger]

I'm not saying it's from any specific time. I can also see Adam James giggling as Leach is yelling at him.

[setem]

I assume you've all seen this already... if not, NSFW:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Although, it's possible you haven't - it only has a few hundred views. It might be newly posted. Watch it before they take it down. Quick!

He should have said...NOW ADAM YOU NEED TO TRY HARDER AND DO YOUR BEST AND IN THE END WIN OR LOSE WE ARE ALL WINNERS!

I have said 10 times worse to my players and have had coaches say worse to me! With this crap I may re think how I talk to my kids because lord knows I do not wanna lose my job! The guys I work with would never do this to our head coach or me because they know the end result is a better ball player and success for the team.

I will say this my boss would have ran this kid off way before he had a chance to linger around and cause this kind of ****.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm not saying it's from any specific time. I can also see Adam James giggling as Leach is yelling at him.

This proves that he's been a giant doosh all along and supports all the statements that he had issues all year in the work ethic department.

[Leroy Lizard]

Sure he has! He is a big boy and could have taken a stand for his coach and teammates!

Once his dad has taken this to the administration, what can he do? Go up against his own dad?

This happens all the time. "I didn't mean for it to go this far."

[Leroy Lizard]

I have said 10 times worse to my players and have had coaches say worse to me! With this crap I may re think how I talk to my kids because lord knows I do not wanna lose my job!

Leach's job wasn't yanked on account of this incident.

[Soonerus]

I think they took Potts to the electric closet...

[Crucifax Autumn]

He just had to take a ****.

[ouwasp]

hey, I think the infamous shed is in the background...

[sooner59]

That stuff happens all of the time in college football. I bet you could get a lot worse at a Nick Saban practice.

[olevetonahill]

His DAD should Never have been involved as you have so eloquently stated so Dayum many times .:rolleyes:

[badger]

Here is more background:

Affidavit 1 (http://media.scout.com/Media/Doc/76/765864.pdf)

Affidavit 2 (http://media.scout.com/Media/Doc/76/765867.pdf)

These are off of Scout.com. I'm not a member, so I don't think you need to be to view.

EDIT: NOT safe for work. They didn't omit the bad words like they did on ESPN... actually, I had no idea that those were the words being omitted when I read it on TV off ESPN an hour ago.

[setem]

Leach's job wasn't yanked on account of this incident.

I know but players are so soft right now they get will try and have you fired for saying stuff like this! Mangino had this problem did he not?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Adam has a dick?

[bluedogok]

Adam has a dick?
I think he had a black & red stocking condom on it tonight.....

[Crucifax Autumn]

In vet's link it clearly shows that Leach assumed he had one.

[badger]

I've been gone for a week, so I apologize again if this has already been posted, but here's a video of the "electrical closet" aka "shed" that Adam James was sent to:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l5Q_5nYwWLU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l5Q_5nYwWLU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[ouwasp]

maybe one of the farkers can put "Arbeit Macht Frei" above the ghastly shed

[Leroy Lizard]

I know but players are so soft right now they get will try and have you fired for saying stuff like this!

But Adam didn't. So what's the point?

I think the video shows that Leach and James had some prior scuffles, and that Adam wasn't the most diligent player, but that's about it.

[Soonerus]

dick head is still on the sidelines....

[Crucifax Autumn]

What's Craig's wife look like? Or for that matter does Adam have a hot girlfriend? I could bang 'em and those guys won't do anything but whine and complain about it.

[Crucifax Autumn]

dick head is still on the sidelines....

Was he wandering around back there trying to get on TV like a fuggin' 13 year old when a news crew shows up???????

[Leroy Lizard]

Crucifax, the dude didn't slap your momma. Relax.

[JLEW1818]

tech








LOL




that's all

[AlbqSooner]

Interesting thing about the affidavit of the trainer. He said that when he placed Adam in the media room they removed all chairs and equipment. That there were only two large tires in the room. HOWEVER, on the video that Adam took with his cell phone you can clearly see chairs in the room. If that is the case, Adam flat out lied about taking that video during his 'detention'.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Either that or the trainer lied.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Crucifax, the dude didn't slap your momma. Relax.

He may not have slapped my mom, but he slapped the entire sports-viewing nation, a great coach, and the concept of hard work.

[JLEW1818]

i think Adam, Adam's dad, and Leach should all be kicked in the nuts.... and go ahead and kick Mark May in the nuts, just for the hell of it

[Crucifax Autumn]

Can I do the kicking?

[SoonerBacker]

Either that or the trainer lied.

My thoughts, exactly. I am getting the feeling that the trainers' affidavits (which appeared AFTER Leach interviewed with ESpin) were forced by Tech administration. Just a gut feeling.

[Leroy Lizard]

He may not have slapped my mom, but he slapped the entire sports-viewing nation, a great coach, and the concept of hard work.

Okay, but can we slow down the Random Adam Rant Generator?

I think you're d.r.u.n.k.

[MamaMia]

Where you see this Mom ? I dozed off on the couch :O
Just a guess but I'll bet you were dozing when they announced what happened.

[Leroy Lizard]

My thoughts, exactly. I am getting the feeling that the trainers' affidavits (which appeared AFTER Leach interviewed with ESpin) were forced by Tech administration.

No way, unless the Tech administration are truly stupid. (And for the record,I think they screwed up here, but they're not this dumb.) Trying to convince the trainers to lie on an affidavit would be a serious criminal offense.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Okay, but can we slow down the Random Adam Rant Generator?

I think you're d.r.u.n.k.

Actually, I am not finished with my first beer of the night. I just can't stand the total emo whininess of people under 25 these days. It's totally annoying knowing that people who refuse to do the hard work required to succeed want a pat on the butt and a trophy for being underachieving wussbags. I feel the same about these little crybabies receiving passing grades in school when they can't spell or add. And these retards get into college when they oughtta be in beauty school hoping they are smart enough to tell the difference between the scissors and shaving cream.

[OU-HSV]

Adam James is a fag and I don't trust him or his daddy one bit. Yes, I think Leach is a little off his rocker...but I think Leach got screwed in this situation. It seems like a huge pile of B.S.
Furthermore, Tech knew what kind of personality they were dealing with in Mike Leach...I mean he's been there for like 10 years, why all the sudden are they mad at him. It has to be in regards to money.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yep. Leach was off his rocker when they hired him. PArt of why they hired him.

Leach was off his rocker when they renewed his contract and gave him a raise. **** Tech.

Leach was off his rocker when ESPN was praising him all these years. **** ESPN.

Leach was off his rocker when he was the only one to give this little pansy a chance. **** the James family.

[Leroy Lizard]

I feel the same about these little crybabies receiving passing grades in school when they can't spell or add. And these retards get into college when they oughtta be in beauty school hoping they are smart enough to tell the difference between the scissors and shaving cream.

It happens to me all the time. But I don't take it personally. My students are like many other students: They don't necessarily all work hard, they sometimes blame others for their own fault, and they often exaggerate to their parents the "horrors" I place on them.

In other words, they're human.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Geez, i hope Adam James never goes into the military

[yermom]

that is one pissed off fanbase. they were NOT happy. they booed the crap out of that kid and were chanting pro-Leach and anti-Myers stuff LOTS. outside before the game, during the game, and at the end of the game

there were t-shirts/posters/stickers all over the riverwalk about it. i didn't hear one Tech fan say they were happy with Leach being gone

[Crucifax Autumn]

Good for them!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Geez, i hope Adam James never goes into the military

If he does he'll "accidentally" get lost on a patrol I'm guessing.

[CBUS_SOONER]

Adam James must be liberal... That would explain everything

[fadada1]

it all comes down to this, imo. 1 - leach probably could've handled this asshat differently from the start. problem is, he probably handled it well at the start, and james kept being a dumbass, and the frustration increased to a level where an "inappropriate" response resulted. 2 - james seems like another 20 year old not taking responsibility, or being accountable, for his actions. by the time the 10 second youtube rant happened, james was already in a hole from which he would never escape.

in the end, while i think leach could've handled this better, he got the shaft... and the tech program will suffer because of it. james may have ruined a career, leach simply ruined james' day. james is a dooshbag.

[44BluesExplosion]

You're the president of Texas Tech and you tell one of your employees to do something. He refuses. Do you fire him? I sure do.

You are the head coach of the football team. You have a player that doesn't give consistent effort, fakes injuries (you think), etc... He has a father that's in media and is also a pain in your ***. Do you lock him in a shed?

Me? No way. I call a meeting with him and his dad and explain that you are pulling his scholarship and that he is no longer needed on the team.

Texas Tech is not wrong in this situation. Mike Leach is wrong... Adam James got EXACTLY what he wanted and Mike gave it to him.

[AlbqSooner]

No way, unless the Tech administration are truly stupid. (And for the record,I think they screwed up here, but they're not this dumb.) Trying to convince the trainers to lie on an affidavit would be a serious criminal offense.

OH PUH LEEZE!

There are more lies told under oath on the witness stand than at the barber shop, bait shop and golf pro shop combined.

The only times I have ever seen or heard of a perjury charge being filed, they have been against someone who testified AGAINST the prosecution in a criminal case OR testified to Congress in a manner that did not suit the party in power.

Employer: From the facts you told us we have prepared this affidavit in legal form to use in court. We want you to review it and sign it.

Employee: Well - um - some of this is kind of - I don't know.

Employer: Look, these are the things we gathered from what you told us. This guy has already been fired. We just don't want to be in a position of having additional budget constraints as a result of his embellishment of the truth. Budget cuts that might force us to evaluate staffing levels as we go forward from here. It isn't like we are asking you to cost this guy his job. He has already done that to himself. You DO want the University to flourish don't you?

[I Am Right]

My but electrical closet has a sports trainer, lights, and a flat screen, but no ESPN

[adoniijahsooner]

You're the president of Texas Tech and you tell one of your employees to do something. He refuses. Do you fire him? I sure do.

You are the head coach of the football team. You have a player that doesn't give consistent effort, fakes injuries (you think), etc... He has a father that's in media and is also a pain in your ***. Do you lock him in a shed?

Me? No way. I call a meeting with him and his dad and explain that you are pulling his scholarship and that he is no longer needed on the team.

Texas Tech is not wrong in this situation. Mike Leach is wrong... ESPN got EXACTLY what they wanted and Mike gave it to them.

Adam nor Leach will benefit from this, because it has already reached a place where people have taken sides. Death threats and needing security escorts is far from comfortable. Getting fired and being viewed as an eccentric out of control coach doesnt sound too glamorous either. Espn is the only one who benefits.

[I Am Right]

It happens to me all the time. But I don't take it personally. My students are like many other students: They don't necessarily all work hard, they sometimes blame others for their own fault, and they often exaggerate to their parents the "horrors" I place on them.

In other words, they're spoiled rotton.

FIXED

[sooner518]

Interesting thing about the affidavit of the trainer. He said that when he placed Adam in the media room they removed all chairs and equipment. That there were only two large tires in the room. HOWEVER, on the video that Adam took with his cell phone you can clearly see chairs in the room. If that is the case, Adam flat out lied about taking that video during his 'detention'.

i think that video was shot in the electrical closet inside the media room where the trainer told Adam NOT to go.

what I find funny is that people are arguing about whether Adam was forced to stand up or not. is that really relevant? if Leach had allowed him outside on the practice fields, he sure as hell wouldn't have been sitting down. and if it comes out that Adam was able to sit down (earlier reports from the same trainer state him as saying he saw Adam sitting and even sleeping), does that really change anything?

and if Adam was sooooo upset and so distraught about being locked in a room without his consent, why didnt he file "wrongful imprisonment" charges.

sounds to me like he told this to his parents who freaked out and raised the ruckus. i still think hes an entitled whiney ******, but I think his ******-y dad made this thing spiral out of control.

[soonerhubs]

You're the president of Texas Tech and you tell one of your employees to do something. He refuses. Do you fire him? I sure do.

You are the head coach of the football team. You have a player that doesn't give consistent effort, fakes injuries (you think), etc... He has a father that's in media and is also a pain in your ***. Do you lock him in a shed?

Me? No way. I call a meeting with him and his dad and explain that you are pulling his scholarship and that he is no longer needed on the team.

Texas Tech is not wrong in this situation. Mike Leach is wrong... Adam James got EXACTLY what he wanted and Mike gave it to him.

Well since you said so, then it must be truth.:rolleyes:

[VA Sooner]

It's all getting blown up with the media, the way Leach and Texas Tech handled it (or didn't handle it, whatever the case may be).

But it's getting ugly.

I know that Leach will get a job elsewhere. This hurts his coaching image but he'll get a job somewhere... he's a very bright individual, if not somewhat unorthodox.

Adam James... his football (and baseball apparently) career is over. He'll have to move back home and live with Mommy and Daddy behind iron gates and security detail until the fan base decides that Texas Tech football will go on.

Craig James... well... I think it would be hard to accept him as an analyst if truly he tried to impose his will on Leach and Company. Wait to see what the jury says there.

ESPN... that was a debacle last night with two commentators going over the situation again and again and again. In fact... showing Adam James on the sideline was over the top. Sure... it's what the public wanted to see... but completely unprofessional. Should have made a statement in the beginning of the game and said, "We will not be discussing the off-field distractions for this team..." blah, blah, blah.

Almost as annoying as the two TV announcers for the Florida-Cincy game going over Tebow's throwing movements time and time again...

[Blues1]

And the Beat Goes on'
Leach lashes out at Tech, James family
Posted by John Taylor on January 1, 2010 12:28 PM ET

For the first time since being fired by Texas Tech, Mike Leach has spoken out about his dismissal as he conducted interviews with both the New York Times and ESPN to ring in the new year.

And, in both cases, the former Red Raider head coach alternately denied mistreating one of his players to railing against the university, the player -- Adam James -- and the James family -- ESPN analyst Craig James in particular.
As for the alleged abuse of Adam James -- initial reports stated that Leach had ordered the receiver confined to a dark, cramped room/electrical closet -- Leach said it simply didn't happen. According to the coach, he had ordered James to be taken "out of the light" as he had been diagnosed with a mild concussion. More specifically, Leach stated he was unaware where James was taken as he "was busy coaching practice."

Leach then lashed out at what he described as falsehoods being distributed by the media in general and ESPN in particular.

"There have been several things that have been brought to mattention on the ticker that's just false," Leach said according to the Times, referring to ESPN's bottom line ticker. "He was never locked anywhere. At no point was he locked anywhere. At no point was there an electrical closet."

Steve Pincock, Tech's head athletic trainer, backed up Leach's claims, saying in a statement that "Adam was never locked in any facility, and was never placed in an electrical closet or tight space, or instructed to do so."

"Adam showed up to practice in street clothes, no team gear, and dark sunglasses," Pincock said, according to the statement. "Adam walked about 40 to 50 yards, very slowly and with a non-caring attitude."

Pincock said Leach then asked that James be moved to a location "where sunlight could not bother him as he was wearing sunglasses."

"I instructed Adam to stay in the garage and out of the sun, so the light would not worsen his condition," Pincock said in the statement. "While in the garage, Adam was walking around, eating ice, sitting on the ground, and, at one point, sleeping; at no point was there any enforcement to make Adam stand up."

At least part of the public perception is that Leach mistreated a player who was diagnosed with a concussion. According to Tech team physician Dr. Michael Phy, and based on his understanding of the situation, "no additional risks or harm were imposed on Adam by what he was asked to do."

So, you have two people who are either current employees of the school or are employed by the school -- Pincock and Phy -- who come out with statements of support for the former head coach? Interesting.

Anyway, during both of the interviews, Leach claims it wasn't his treatment of James that led to this situation. Instead, it was an overbearing father and a lazy and entitled son who prompted this entire sordid affair.

In particular, Leach blasted Craig James for the way he hovereover the program, calling both Leach and his assistants in an attempt to get more playing time for his son. He also made damning statements about the ESPN analyst attempting to use his position of "power" to force his son into additional playing time.

Leach described a divisive and tense relationship with Craig James, whom he said he had to deal with more than every other parent on the team combined. He said that James frequently attended practices and called assistant coaches.

"I think he used his position at ESPN to try to coerce me into allowing Adam to play more," said Leach, who said he expected to coach again. "But the thing about it is as the coach, I watch every inch of film. I'm deferring to the judgment of 12 people as we look at the film on who should play and who should play when and then we make our decision based on that. I don't feel like it's fair to the other players and I don't think it's the right way to do business to allow influence and position to dictate when you play a young man."

Leach said that Craig James called the assistant coach Lincoln Riley so often to lobby for playing time that they had a meeting with Adam James. They played him two of the messages and asked, "How would you feel if we went in there to the meeting room and we stuck speakers up and we played these two messages for the team?"

Leach added: "After that we didn't get any more phone calls from Craig, but he did proceed to call administrators."

Leach said that Craig James felt his son was not getting a fair shot and threatened to call the administration about it.

"He made it clear that he had a business relationship with our chancellor or certainly was in conversation about such things," Leach said. "He made it clear that he was announcing this game or that. He always felt like we were leaving the best receiver on the team on the bench. It's inconceivable that we'd ever want to do that or consider doing it."

Again, this is making both sides look bad. Really bad.

But, the more information that sees the light of day, the more it becomes blatantly obvious that the person on the receiving end of the most hits -- and the blackest of eyes -- is Craig James himself. And, by extension, his employer.

In essence, an analyst at the dominant sports network in the world got a head coach fired. How he can continue as one of the lead analysts for the World Wide Leader is beyond me.

Then again, when you have a monopoly on sports information, you can pretty much do whatever you want, can't ya?

[adoniijahsooner]

Wow! That is classic!!

"How would you feel if we went in there to the meeting room and we stuck speakers up and we played these two messages for the team?"

[DenverSooner751]

Actually, I am not finished with my first beer of the night. I just can't stand the total emo whininess of people under 25 these days. It's totally annoying knowing that people who refuse to do the hard work required to succeed want a pat on the butt and a trophy for being underachieving wussbags. I feel the same about these little crybabies receiving passing grades in school when they can't spell or add. And these retards get into college when they oughtta be in beauty school hoping they are smart enough to tell the difference between the scissors and shaving cream.

THIS!

I work with High Ed admissions for a number of large private schools and I will echo your feelings....the youth of this generation are absolute friggin dooshers and it's rare that you find young men or women these days with good work ethic, and when you do......it's rewarding.

[fadada1]

sounds to me like he told this to his parents who freaked out and raised the ruckus.
can you describe the ruckus?

watch it, bub.

[Leroy Lizard]

Leach said that Craig James called the assistant coach Lincoln Riley so often to lobby for playing time that they had a meeting with Adam James. They played him two of the messages and asked, "How would you feel if we went in there to the meeting room and we stuck speakers up and we played these two messages for the team?"

Coaches need to learn that you can't do these things!

If I have a parent that tries to influence me to change a grade for his daughter, and I threaten to broadcast that to the class, I'm going to end up in trouble. It's not the professional way to handle this situation.

[adoniijahsooner]

THIS!

I work with High Ed admissions for a number of large private schools and I will echo your feelings....the youth of this generation are absolute friggin dooshers and it's rare that you find young men or women these days with good work ethic, and when you do......it's rewarding.

Ronnell Lewis quote...


"For me, my world revolves around just working,” Lewis said. "That’s all I can do.”

[DenverSooner751]

[QUOTE=

Almost as annoying as the two TV announcers for the Florida-Cincy game going over Tebow's throwing movements time and time again...[/QUOTE]

I enjoyed this actually.....Billick was telling it how it was and bonor boy just wouldn't let him say it!

I agree with you though, the broadcast was purely a ratings pull (which most usually are but this one took it to a whole different level).

[DenverSooner751]

Ronnell Lewis quote...

Looking forward to this guy.

[adoniijahsooner]

Coaches need to learn that you can't do these things!

If I have a parent that tries to influence me to change a grade for his daughter, and I threaten to broadcast that to the class, I'm going to end up in trouble. It's not the professional way to handle this situation.

Have you ever played sports?

[Leroy Lizard]

WTF does that have to do with it?

[sooner518]

Steve Pincock, Tech's head athletic trainer, backed up Leach's claims, saying in a statement that "Adam was never locked in any facility, and was never placed in an electrical closet or tight space, or instructed to do so."

"I instructed Adam to stay in the garage and out of the sun, so the light would not worsen his condition," Pincock said in the statement. "While in the garage, Adam was walking around, eating ice, sitting on the ground, and, at one point, sleeping; at no point was there any enforcement to make Adam stand up."





"Leach further said something to the effect that he wanted me to tell James that I was to 'lock his ***** *** in a place so dark that the only way he knows he has a dick is to reach down and touch it'"...........
"At that time, all coolers or water containters were removed from the building so James could not sit on them. Leach ordered me to place James in the dark, enclosed area where he could not sit or lay down"

Contradict yourself much? Was he locked in there or not? Did you take away all the objects so that he could sit down, or was he sitting down, and sleeping?

This guy is full of crap. or the Tech admins threatened him, which is what it sounds like to me

[OU-HSV]

Anyone else watch sportscenter late last night and notice the two espn guys called him Adam "Jones" when they were showing the game highlights. That was classic "We don't know a thing about this story but we're gonna talk about it anyways". I bet Craig James is mad about that.

[adoniijahsooner]

WTF does that have to do with it?

If you did, then you would know that there is a different set of rules for coaches and teachers. A college prof doesnt spend near the time with his students as a coach. Also, Adam James' behavior directly has an impact on the TEAM as a whole, not just on Leach. Think about it, there are other WR who are working hard for playing time, and Adam's father calling in and complaining is basically saying that those guys are not important. Tell me how a parent complaining about what his child does in class have any bearing on what happens with another student.

[Leroy Lizard]

This guy is full of crap. or the Tech admins threatened him, which is what it sounds like to me

Despite what many of us might think, the Tech administrators aren't dumb enough to threaten him. Most likely he changed his tune once he was faced with a sworn affidavit that would impose a penalty on him for lying.

Or, they lied on the affidavit and told the truth earlier to the public. That would be a pretty stupid thing to do, though.

[SoonerBacker]

No way, unless the Tech administration are truly stupid. (And for the record,I think they screwed up here, but they're not this dumb.) Trying to convince the trainers to lie on an affidavit would be a serious criminal offense.


Well, they (the medial staff involved) obviously lied at some point. I find it interesting that their original comments were in support of Leach.

"Steve Pincock, Tech's head athletic trainer, backed up Leach's claims, saying in a statement that "Adam was never locked in any facility, and was never placed in an electrical closet or tight space, or instructed to do so."

"Adam showed up to practice in street clothes, no team gear, and dark sunglasses," Pincock said, according to the statement. "Adam walked about 40 to 50 yards, very slowly and with a non-caring attitude."

Pincock said Leach then asked that James be moved to a location "where sunlight could not bother him as he was wearing sunglasses."

"I instructed Adam to stay in the garage and out of the sun, so the light would not worsen his condition," Pincock said in the statement. "While in the garage, Adam was walking around, eating ice, sitting on the ground, and, at one point, sleeping; at no point was there any enforcement to make Adam stand up."

At least part of the public perception is that Leach mistreated a player who was diagnosed with a concussion. According to Tech team physician Dr. Michael Phy, and based on his understanding of the situation, "no additional risks or harm were imposed on Adam by what he was asked to do."

So, you have two people who are either current employees of the school or are employed by the school -- Pincock and Phy -- who come out with statements of support for the former head coach? Interesting."


Only after Leach's interview with eSPIN did they alter their comments in "sworn affidavits" to come down on the side of the Tceh administration. Something obviously happened. Besides, from what I have heard about the Tceh administration, they are incredibly stupid!

[wishbonesooner]

Potts suffered a concussion early in the year didn't he? Did Leach make him go to a dark room and stand? If he didn't, then he brought all this on himself. James jr. is probably a spoiled little prick. But Mike Leach is supposed to be a professional. Being pissed at James and his dad really doesn't justify Leach being stupid. And doing what he did was stupid, if he didn't do that with other players that had concussions, he shouldn't have done it to James. I hate slackers as much as anybody, but Leach was a dumbass for doing what he did, and he knows it.

[PLaw]

I'm not sure Adam has done much wrong here. AFAIK, this got blown out of proportion by others.

Yeah, like by his poppa pulling a Mustain.

Boomer

[AlbqSooner]

Despite what many of us might think, the Tech administrators aren't dumb enough to threaten him.

LOL. They were dumb enough to let those emails from contract negotiations get out into the public domain.:D

[Leroy Lizard]

If you did, then you would know that there is a different set of rules for coaches and teachers.

You know enough about the code of conduct that the coach signs to say that threatening to reveal a private conversation between a parent and coach to the entire team is acceptable?

I would love to see that policy manual.

[Leroy Lizard]

LOL. They were dumb enough to let those emails from contract negotiations get out into the public domain

File that under "careless." Threatening someone to get them to lie on a sworn affidavit is beyond careless.

[adoniijahsooner]

Potts suffered a concussion early in the year didn't he? Did Leach make him go to a dark room and stand? If he didn't, then he brought all this on himself. James jr. is probably a spoiled little prick. But Mike Leach is supposed to be a professional. Being pissed at James and his dad really doesn't justify Leach being stupid. And doing what he did was stupid, if he didn't do that with other players that had concussions, he shouldn't have done it to James. I hate slackers as much as anybody, but Leach was a dumbass for doing what he did, and he knows it.

None of this will really matter in court. The question will be, "Did Leach default on his contract?" Adam is already viewed as a *****y, and Leach is viewed as a dumbass, but a judge doesnt care about those things. This will be Texas Tech VS Mike Leach, nothing more. Did Texas Tech use this situation to get out of paying Mike? Is there anything in the contract that states a player cannot be stuck in a garage or visiting coaches media room? The crap we're arguing over is pure public opinion.

[PLaw]

THIS!

I work with High Ed admissions for a number of large private schools and I will echo your feelings....the youth of this generation are absolute friggin dooshers and it's rare that you find young men or women these days with good work ethic, and when you do......it's rewarding.

Yeah, and just wait till they get into the workforce. They expect that checking the boxes without any skins on the wall should advance their career.

BOOMER

[adoniijahsooner]

You know enough about the code of conduct that the coach signs to say that threatening to reveal a private conversation between a parent and coach to the entire team is acceptable?

I would love to see that policy manual.

That's my point. My ex-wife is a teacher and there is alot of things she is not allowed to do; but I have never heard of any manual when it comes to coaches. Maybe there is one, but I just have not heard about it.

[TXBOOMER]

That stuff happens all of the time in college football. I bet you could get a lot worse at a Nick Saban practice.

Bo up in Neb is a hardcore Old SKOOler himself. I've heard him let the F Bomb fly during warm-ups.

[MeMyself&Me]

Potts suffered a concussion early in the year didn't he? Did Leach make him go to a dark room and stand? If he didn't, then he brought all this on himself. James jr. is probably a spoiled little prick. But Mike Leach is supposed to be a professional. Being pissed at James and his dad really doesn't justify Leach being stupid. And doing what he did was stupid, if he didn't do that with other players that had concussions, he shouldn't have done it to James. I hate slackers as much as anybody, but Leach was a dumbass for doing what he did, and he knows it.

Potts probably didn't show up to practice in street cloths with a baseball cap on backwards with sunglasses on and then tell the coach he had to wear the sunglasses because is doctor told him to stay out of sunlight.

Different kid, different situation.

[Leroy Lizard]

That's my point. My ex-wife is a teacher and there is alot of things she is not allowed to do; but I have never heard of any manual when it comes to coaches.

Just think about it. The threat was that Adam would be humiliated by a private voice mail left by his father on the coach's answering machine. Adam didn't leave the voice mail, his dad did. So why is Adam being confronted with it?

And at what point is it ever professional to threaten to broadcast publicly a private conversation?

If the dad leaves a voice mail desiring special treatment, you play it to to the athletic director and let him handle it. Or you call the dad and tell him to quit calling. You don't confront the player; he had nothing to do with it for all you know.

[fadada1]

i remember in 7th grade, i decided to go out for the basketball team (instead of swimming that year). i felt like i wasn't getting the playing time i deserved, so i went to the coach. he told me i wasn't showing him what i should in order to gain more PT. being able to understand it now, i had never NOT been an "all star" in anything i had done, and i was frustrated.

long story, short... i was first off the bench the next game, got humbled, and figured out that i wasn't as good as i thought i was. went back to my normal playing time and was much happier knowing my role. all this without my parents calling the coach.

life lesson learned as a 12 year old without the help of mom and dad. went back to swimming full time and was much happier.

lesson for james - act like a 12 year old and grow up some. you're clearly not as good as you think... or as good as you dad was.

[Leroy Lizard]

Has Adam complained about the lack of playing time, or was this just his dad?

[fadada1]

Has Adam complained about the lack of playing time, or was this just his dad?

over the past 4 days, i HAVE heard that was one of the complaints from leach about james.

[MR2-Sooner86]

I'm just going to sit back and keep watching all of this. Good stuff!

:pop:

[stoopified]

It might just be me BUT I'm glad Leach is gone.He was becoming a pain in OUr butt when we play in Lubbock.I say goodbye Mike.

[Sooner Eclipse]

If the dad leaves a voice mail desiring special treatment, you play it to to the athletic director and let him handle it. Or you call the dad and tell him to quit calling. You don't confront the player; he had nothing to do with it for all you know.

Given Leaches statements, it's likey all these things were done. It fairly obvious that the AD was undermining ML at every turn. Its reasonable to expect that the AD did exactly nada about CJ calling the coach due to the negative PR threatened. Next ML says that after the discussion w vAJ, CJ quit calling coaches, but began to call admins. The AD should have ended it right there and should have backed up ML. He didn't because he wanted to use this against ML.

[wishbonesooner]

I'm 57, and I played sports when coaches could do anything they wanted. They could pull your facemask down and lead you all over the field, they could put you in the middle a ring of 8 or 10 players and have them take their shots at you to teach you a lesson. If you wanted to play, you dealt with it. You didn't tell mom and dad.
But see, this isn't then. If you want to coach, if you want to work with kids, if you want to make big, big bucks, you know you can't do that stuff. You can't put someone in a room and tell them they can't leave to take a leak or get a drink. That's pure dumbass.Leach is a frikking lawyer for cryin out loud. He knew better, he got caught, he got fired. I don't feel a bit sorry for Leach.

[Leroy Lizard]

Given Leaches statements, it's likey all these things were done.

Then there is no reason to threat to broadcast the voicemail publicly. Going after the player may be easiest thing to do, but it isn't very smart.

I'm not certain that this incident is a Leach problem or a national problem. Do coaches understand what to do in these situations? I'm not sure.

[Curly Bill]

You should start a company LL, so you can inform coaches what they can and can't do. :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

Actually, there are already consulting firms that specialize in this area. I know people who train teachers on following proper protocols. In fact, I have sat in the training sessions. There's good money in it for those with the proper background.

[Curly Bill]

I know there are all kinds of consulting firms and such for teachers and coaches alike. Most of them are run by people who haven't been in a classroom, or on an athletic field of play in years.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Actually, there are already consulting firms that specialize in this area. I know people who train teachers on following proper protocols. In fact, I have sat in the training sessions. There's good money in it for those with the proper background.
Just what the hell do you do? Teach fags at Cascia Hall?

[Leroy Lizard]

The ones I know are former administrators who have a law background. Usually they have about 20 years of experience at the field level.

And it doesn't matter how long it has been since they taught or coached. All that matters is whether they understand the law and university policy, and are effective in training others to understand how to react in certain situations.

The coach usually hasn't played football in many years, but that doesn't stop him from being a coach. Did Leach play at all?


Just what the hell do you do? Teach fags at Cascia Hall?

Huh?

[Curly Bill]

What the hell difference does it matter if Leach ever played football?

My point is the "consultants" that like to instruct coaches and teachers on how they should do their jobs, haven't actually done those jobs themselves in many years. In others words: they are in many instances as out of touch as you Leroy often seem to be. ;)

[Sooner Eclipse]

Then there is no reason to threat to broadcast the voicemail publicly. Going after the player may be easiest thing to do, but it isn't very smart.

I'm not certain that this incident is a Leach problem or a national problem. Do coaches understand what to do in these situations? I'm not sure.

He didn't actually do it. He threatened to. It was done to change behavior and it worked to some extent. He just didn't count on dad being the giant ****** that he obviously is.

To the second point, the coach has the right and responsibility to punish the little puss for his behavior. Thats what was done. It didnt damage him in any way that any other football punishment would have. He couldnt make him do physical punishments due to the concussion so he punished him the only way he could. He put him in TIME OUT. If you cant now put a whiney little wuss in time out, lots of parents are going to become worse parents than they already are.

Being called out as a puss in front of the team is the best motivational tool a coach has. Leach used it and vAJ and daddy didnt like it and got revenge.

[Flagstaffsooner]

Huh?
Wuss school in tulsa.

[Curly Bill]

Wuss school in tulsa.

Adam James could get a job there as a consultant. ;) :D

[Leroy Lizard]

He didn't actually do it. He threatened to.

Yes, and threatening to is a big no-no.

Threats mean things. You can't just say, "Well, we didn't actually do it." That logic might fly in kindergarten, but it won't work in the real world.

And we know why they did it and the fact that it worked. But that is irrelevant.


To the second point, the coach has the right and responsibility to punish the little puss for his behavior. Thats what was done. It didnt damage him in any way that any other football punishment would have. He couldnt make him do physical punishments due to the concussion so he punished him the only way he could. He put him in TIME OUT. If you cant now put a whiney little wuss in time out, lots of parents are going to become worse parents than they already are.

There is a lot of dispute over what really happened, so I'm not sure whether Leach was in the right or or not. Leach makes it sound innocuous, but the affidavits paint a more serious picture. I'm not sure we will ever know.


Being called out as a puss in front of the team is the best motivational tool a coach has. Leach used it and vAJ and daddy didnt like it and got revenge.

But I think you're distorting the problem. Adam was called out as a wuss by Leach on one video, and it didn't lead to any problems. Placing Adam in a darkened room is the issue here.

[Leroy Lizard]

What the hell difference does it matter if Leach ever played football?

My point is the "consultants" that like to instruct coaches and teachers on how they should do their jobs, haven't actually done those jobs themselves in many years. In others words: they are in many instances as out of touch as you Leroy often seem to be.

Leach coaches players on how to play football, but he himself has never played. It's the same thing.

Those who attack consultants on their field experience are just resistant to training. As for me, I don't care as long as the training is worthwhile. Gotta' have a healthy attitude.

[Sooner Eclipse]

Yes, and threatening to is a big no-no.

Threats mean things. You can't just say, "Well, we didn't actually do it." That logic might fly in kindergarten, but it won't work in the real world.

Police do this all the time in the interview room. Threatening to expose an azzhat as an azzhat is not a no-no.



Placing Adam in a darkened room is the issue here.

Where do you sleep at night? I hope your scooby doo nightlight bulb doesnt burn out. If it does, are you going to sue your parents for abuse?

[Leroy Lizard]

Police do this all the time in the interview room. Threatening to expose an azzhat as an azzhat is not a no-no.

That is soooooo weak. (The police can do a lot of things that a normal citizen cannot do.)

Besides, I never said that broadcasting the recording to the team was illegal.


Where do you sleep at night? I hope your scooby doo nightlight bulb doesnt burn out. If it does, are you going to sue your parents for abuse?

There's no need to take it to the personal level.

[StoopTroup]

Leroy....

After reading some of your statements regarding all of this....I'm reminded of the statement...."It's better to have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

It just felt relevant for some reason.

When a Head Coach and his Staff sit down and play messages they received from your Dad....they are reaching out for you to become a Team Player and to take charge of your own battles. They are letting you know that your Dad is potentially making things worse for you.

They didn't tell the Team about any of this either. Mike has been put in an uncomfortable spot and is defending himself. Reading some of what you have said in this thread...it would seem you would defend yourself if claims from a parent came upon you.

Leach might have used bad language and some wacky tequinues...but nobody was hurt by any of it until Adam started fuming about his treatment.

This is bad for more than just College Football.

When you make false charges against someone....you deserve what ever happens IMO.

You've said you'd handle things more Professional if a Parent came to you than telling his classmates about it.....that's what Leach did. It seems he tried to talk to the kid. Being a Head Coach is a huge responsibility and being a nurse maid for some kid who doesn't get that he's getting preferential treatment just because of who his Father is.....well....he might ought to just go play somewhere else.

In the end...it looks like that's just what is going to happen too. It's a life lesson. The kind of lesson evidently you can't learn in school anymore either.

[Leroy Lizard]

When a Head Coach and his Staff sit down and play messages they received from your Dad....they are reaching out for you to become a Team Player and to take charge of your own battles. They are letting you know that your Dad is potentially making things worse for you.

Oh geeeez, the coaching staff is now selling Chicago insurance.

[Leroy Lizard]

They didn't tell the Team about any of this either.

No, but they threatened to. You ignored that fact.


Mike has been put in an uncomfortable spot and is defending himself. Reading some of what you have said in this thread...it would seem you would defend yourself if claims from a parent came upon you.

There is no uncomfortable spot. He had a parent call up wanting extra playing time for his son. The answer is no. You call the AD, tell him what happened, and let him handle it. And from that point forward you let the AD handle the parent.

Mike calls the shots on who plays and for how long. There is no discomfort here.

When it comes to grades, I call the shot. If a student feels a grade is unfair, there is a recourse. By following proper procedure, I don't end up in uncomfortable situations.


When you make false charges against someone....you deserve what ever happens IMO.

Well, Adam isn't going to get the punishment he deserves because the other grownups screwed up the process. If the Tech administration had called Adam in and asked him if he wanted to file a complaint, Adam may have said "no" and none of this would have happened.


You've said you'd handle things more Professional if a Parent came to you than telling his classmates about it.....that's what Leach did.

No, Leach threatened to divulge the conversation to the team. Nope, no way. I would never do that. That's just wrong.

You keep trying to make it sound like he was performing some grand therapy for Adam. C'mon! He got pissed at his dad and threatened to humiliate him publicly if his dad continued to call. There's no therapy there. He's not trying to teach Adam one of life's lessons.

[StoopTroup]

See it how you want.

If you don't see the life lesson that results from any of this for Adam and you think it's more of a life lesson for Mike....you're seriously in need of some therapy.

Mike is a guy who makes huge decisions. I don't think you'll ever see him apologize for any of them either.

I wonder who could walk down the street in Lubbock today without an armed guard...Mike or Adam?

[boomerborn79]

Leroy....

After reading some of your statements regarding all of this....I'm reminded of the statement...."It's better to have people think you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

It just felt relevant for some reason.

When a Head Coach and his Staff sit down and play messages they received from your Dad....they are reaching out for you to become a Team Player and to take charge of your own battles. They are letting you know that your Dad is potentially making things worse for you.

They didn't tell the Team about any of this either. Mike has been put in an uncomfortable spot and is defending himself. Reading some of what you have said in this thread...it would seem you would defend yourself if claims from a parent came upon you.

Leach might have used bad language and some wacky tequinues...but nobody was hurt by any of it until Adam started fuming about his treatment.

This is bad for more than just College Football.

When you make false charges against someone....you deserve what ever happens IMO.

You've said you'd handle things more Professional if a Parent came to you than telling his classmates about it.....that's what Leach did. It seems he tried to talk to the kid. Being a Head Coach is a huge responsibility and being a nurse maid for some kid who doesn't get that he's getting preferential treatment just because of who his Father is.....well....he might ought to just go play somewhere else.

In the end...it looks like that's just what is going to happen too. It's a life lesson. The kind of lesson evidently you can't learn in school anymore either.


^^^^^ this....and Leroy you seem to be the only one that feels this way. I kinda wonder if you just feel like disagreeing with all of us. OH, and don't correct me on my grammer, Its a forum not high school. Lighten up we are all Soonerfan's here.

[StoopTroup]

^^^^^ this....and Leroy you seem to be the only one that feels this way. I kinda wonder if you just feel like disagreeing with all of us. OH, and don't correct me on my grammer, Its a forum not high school. Lighten up we are all Soonerfan's here.

After 3,195 posts....I have given up thinking that might happen.

[bluedogok]

Threatening to play those messages for the team and threatening to play it in front of a class are two entirely different things. In the classroom, most students are in there for an individual grade, even on a "team" project it is only a few people on a team and ultimately a grade granted a team is on the individual. On a football team the goals are team goals and a malcontent on the team can bring the entire team down if the staff lets him and humiliation in front of your teammates is different than "public humiliation", if a player does not respond to reason, then sometimes other methods are required and team humiliation is sometimes the most effective. It goes on all the time and it is never made "public" unless the person goes public on his own, if he does that he was never really a "team player" anyway.

All I know is that if I was his coach, he would have been booted off the team long before it got to that level...but then I have a fairly low tolerance for that kind of crap. My cousin was a high school coach in Oklahoma and Texas for quite a few years and got out of it because there are many more "uncoachable" kids than there used to be and it is a direct result of how their parents supposedly "raised" them.

[MeMyself&Me]

^^^^^ this....and Leroy you seem to be the only one that feels this way. I kinda wonder if you just feel like disagreeing with all of us. OH, and don't correct me on my grammer, Its a forum not high school. Lighten up we are all Soonerfan's here.

If you were to post that the sky was blue, he'd argue that it was really yellow...


Just add him to your ignore list. He's not worth the trouble.

[sozo]

Would love to see Bear Bryant get ahold of James!:pop:

[boomerborn79]

After 3,195 posts....I have given up thinking that might happen.

Guy needs a hug and smile.:D No pun Leroy you just seem aggrivated.

[Piware]

I have never played a down of football in my life but my brothers and husband did. Ex-hubby played college ball and they all agree that many athletes get hurt because they are not in shape.

Maybe Mike's best choice when he realized he had a prima donna on his hands, would have been to let the little wimp slide through practice then put him in the slot so a 300 pound meateater could break some appendages. It would give a whole new meaning to "season ending injury".

His teammates and position coaches didn't like him anyway so no loss. As Daddy James knows, injuries happen all the time.

[boomerborn79]

I have never played a down of football in my life but my brothers and husband did. Ex-hubby played college ball and they all agree that many athletes get hurt because they are not in shape.

Maybe Mike's best choice when he realized he had a prima donna on his hands, would have been to let the little wimp slide through practice then put him in the slot so a 300 pound meateater could break some appendages. It would give a whole new meaning to "season ending injury".

His teammates and position coaches didn't like him anyway so no loss. As Daddy James knows, injuries happen all the time.

WOW, that's mean. I would hate to be your ex hubby:D

[StoopTroup]

WOW, that's mean. I would hate to be your ex hubby:D

I wouldn't try and hug him if I were you.....lol

[Scott D]

I'd say whether he's allowed to transfer or not, Adam James' time at Texas Tech is done before this semester begins. That lunatic Carter can't protect the kid 24/7 on that campus.

[AlbqSooner]

You can't just say, "Well, we didn't actually do it." That logic might fly in kindergarten, but it won't work in the real world.
And we know why they did it and the fact that it worked. But that is irrelevant.

God Lord Kid. Do you not realize you contradicted yourself in consecutive sentences? You are so disagreeable you can't even agree with yourself.:D

Consultants are like expert witnesses in the legal profession.

An expert is a witness you bring in from far enough away that the jury does not know he is really just an azzhat with an opinion which has no basis. Somewhat the same with a consultant.

[ashley]

There is a very good read now on ESPN college football. Even if it is espn I am afraid it is a very telling. I like Leach a lot but he seems to have gotten to be too much candy for a dime.

[StoopTroup]

Pirates don't eat candy

[soonerhubs]

IBLL'sStupidandcompulsivelyargumentativeRetort

[King Barry's Back]

Contradict yourself much? Was he locked in there or not? Did you take away all the objects so that he could sit down, or was he sitting down, and sleeping?

This guy is full of crap. or the Tech admins threatened him, which is what it sounds like to me

That was my initial thought as well. Maybe the kid (aka punk, *ss, b*tch) sat/laid on the floor?

The Pincock affidavit had "pressured by the admin" written all over it.

[King Barry's Back]

You know enough about the code of conduct that the coach signs to say that threatening to reveal a private conversation between a parent and coach to the entire team is acceptable?

I would love to see that policy manual.

Wouldn't it only be considered a private conversation if BOTH parties agreed it was private? And I can only surmise, but as Leach and the Tech coaches were loath to Chat with Mr. Ego, I can only guess that they would not have consented to make the conversation private.

Moreover, conversation between parents and teachers usually is focused on private, very sensitive and legally protected information like test scores and final grades.

Sounds like Ego was interested primarily in very public information like how many snaps his son got.

[King Barry's Back]

Despite what many of us might think, the Tech administrators aren't dumb enough to threaten him. Most likely he changed his tune once he was faced with a sworn affidavit that would impose a penalty on him for lying.

Or, they lied on the affidavit and told the truth earlier to the public. That would be a pretty stupid thing to do, though.

Leroy, do you remember when you thought that Craig James wouldn't try to get a coach fired, or even ask his corporate superiors to try to get a coach fired? It's looking more and more like both of those, and much more, HAS NOW ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

People threaten other people to get them to do things they don't want every day, all the time. Sometimes those people pay a big price, like getting fired or getting sued. Quite often their aggressiveness is repaid with success, public acclaim and great financial reward.

One excellent example is Mr Bernie Madoff. He became a billionaire by simply telling people that he would invest their money in something valuable, and instead giving it to his previous "investors."

It seems to me that, by your analysis, you might well have argued "Ponzi schemes will inevitably fail, the schemers will eventually be found out and humiliated and destroyed financially, and the schemers will inevitably go to prison.

"Therefore, no one smart enough to be a big Wall Street financier is stupid enough to run a Ponzi scheme."

But the point is that someone WAS stupid enough to do it. And the fact is that, in retrospect, he wasn't too stupid. First, he became fabulously unimaginably rich -- and who wouldn't want to experience that, even if temporarily? Second, he is now world famous and will be known and written about for decades after his death. Third, had he dropped dead in his early 60s, he would have paid NO penalty for his schemes.

[A-M]

You're the president of Texas Tech and you tell one of your employees to do something. He refuses. Do you fire him? I sure do.

You are the head coach of the football team. You have a player that doesn't give consistent effort, fakes injuries (you think), etc... He has a father that's in media and is also a pain in your ***. Do you lock him in a shed?

Me? No way. I call a meeting with him and his dad and explain that you are pulling his scholarship and that he is no longer needed on the team.

Texas Tech is not wrong in this situation. Mike Leach is wrong... Adam James got EXACTLY what he wanted and Mike gave it to him.

I agree with you 44Blues Explosing. If you don't like the way the kid is, you do not have to keep giving him a scholarship every year. What Leach did was wrong, especially because he has not treated another player the same way. If Leach would have done what his boss wanted him to do, he would still have his job. He didn't, and he was fired. That's just the way it is when you work for someone. They are the boss and you can always be fired.

[rawlingsHOH]

Dumb move, Leach.

[bluedogok]

If Leach would have done what his boss wanted him to do, he would still have his job. He didn't, and he was fired. That's just the way it is when you work for someone. They are the boss and you can always be fired.
I doubt that, they wanted to get rid of him last season during contract negotiations, so they would have found some other reason. It was a no win situation, Hance, Myers and Sowell get their wish, if he signs it, then in effect he "admits" to whatever violation of policy and they fire him for that reason. Since he didn't, they spin it one way, if he did, they spin it another way. You have to remember, the chancellor is basically a politician, and we all know what kind of crap they spew.

Basically, Leach had no chance of being coach at Tech next season no matter what he did.

[Leroy Lizard]

God Lord Kid. Do you not realize you contradicted yourself in consecutive sentences? You are so disagreeable you can't even agree with yourself.

Read it again.

In the first use of the term "working" I am referring to the logic he uses in his argument. In the second, I am referring to the outcome of threatening Adam.


An expert is a witness you bring in from far enough away that the jury does not know he is really just an azzhat with an opinion which has no basis. Somewhat the same with a consultant.

If consultants were not valuable, people wouldn't hire them.


The Pincock affidavit had "pressured by the admin" written all over it.

Either that, or "Crap this is a sworn affidavit. I had better go ahead and spill the beans."

Who knows?

[Leroy Lizard]

Leroy, do you remember when you thought that Craig James wouldn't try to get a coach fired, or even ask his corporate superiors to try to get a coach fired? It's looking more and more like both of those, and much more, HAS NOW ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Say what? Leach was fired long before ESPN got involved in this. I see no evidence that Craig James or ESPN were involved in getting Leach fired. More likely, Leach was fired because the Tech administration had it in for him and he simply wouldn't cooperate.



People threaten other people to get them to do things they don't want every day, all the time. Sometimes those people pay a big price, like getting fired or getting sued. Quite often their aggressiveness is repaid with success, public acclaim and great financial reward.

No doubt, but pressuring people to lie on a sworn affidavit is another matter entirely.

Would you do it? I know I wouldn't. I could be facing some serious jail time for something like that, and what would I have to gain? It's not like it's my own personal money at stake.

And what faith do I have that my threats to the trainers will work? And I have to get both of them to agree.

I just don't see it as very likely. Still, it's possible. As you point out, stupidity happens.

[StoopTroup]

If Leach would have done what his boss wanted him to do, he would still have his job. He didn't, and he was fired. That's just the way it is when you work for someone. They are the boss and you can always be fired.

I think that is what Lou Holtz was saying after Mark May went on his little anti-Leach on air tirade. It's easy to say but none of us were in those conversations when he was asked to do the apology. Mike might have just gotten tired of their **** too and rolled the dice. Maybe he just didn't care and thought if they fired him or let him go...they'd need to settle with him. Again....Mike hasn't done anything or really said a whole lot about it all since it happened. It's really getting much harder to think that Mike is the bad guy when Craig James has continued to make statements. I think it really seems to be very true that Craig was way involved in all of this and maybe had some dream of having an ESPN piece about his days as Player and how his Son is following in his footsteps. It would seem all of that might be gone for him. Trying to make that stuff happen can really end up being awful. I'd say we've reached awful now. Good job Craig.

[StoopTroup]

If consultants were not valuable, people wouldn't re-hire them.


fixed

[soonerhubs]

Leroy, You're right.


I am probably not right.

OK, then you're not right.


Well, I could be right.

Sounds good.


Sound is irrelevant here, you're missing the point.

I'm missing the point. That's too bad Leach got fired.


Oh, I'm not sure you're in a position to make such a judgment call.

This is true.


Then again it may not be true.
;)

[StoopTroup]

^ lol

[A-M]

I doubt that, they wanted to get rid of him last season during contract negotiations, so they would have found some other reason. It was a no win situation, Hance, Myers and Sowell get their wish, if he signs it, then in effect he "admits" to whatever violation of policy and they fire him for that reason. Since he didn't, they spin it one way, if he did, they spin it another way. You have to remember, the chancellor is basically a politician, and we all know what kind of crap they spew.

Basically, Leach had no chance of being coach at Tech next season no matter what he did.

Not meaning to argue with you bluedogok, If TT didn't want to keep Leach as a coach, why did the redo and extend his contract this past Feb? Why didn't they just let his contract run out? Guess I don't understand how some of these things work.

[A-M]

Read it again.

In the first use of the term "working" I am referring to the logic he uses in his argument. In the second, I am referring to the outcome of threatening Adam.



If consultants were not valuable, people wouldn't hire them.



Either that, or "Crap this is a sworn affidavit. I had better go ahead and spill the beans."

Who knows?

I with you on this Leroy. It looks like we are the only 2 who think that Leach did something wrong in this. But, that's O.K. with me. When you start treating the players differently, then that's when you start getting into trouble. And Leach did, and he did!:P

[MeMyself&Me]

Not meaning to argue with you bluedogok, If TT didn't want to keep Leach as a coach, why did the redo and extend his contract this past Feb? Why didn't they just let his contract run out? Guess I don't understand how some of these things work.

I'm going to take a wild guess that you have not read the Tech administration emails published by the Dallas Morning News a few days ago.

[bluedogok]

Not meaning to argue with you bluedogok, If TT didn't want to keep Leach as a coach, why did the redo and extend his contract this past Feb? Why didn't they just let his contract run out? Guess I don't understand how some of these things work.
I'm going to take a wild guess that you have not read the Tech administration emails published by the Dallas Morning News a few days ago.
Which were from the time period of the contract negotiations last year.
Here are the emails: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231leach.pdf
Here is a story on a Lubbock TV station site that contains some important elements of them: KCBD.com - Emails surface among Tech Administrators about Leach firing (http://www.kcbd.com/global/story.asp?s=11755746)

I stated in the other thread (I think) that I don't understand why they didn't just severe the relationship last year if they didn't want him but I guess they didn't want to completely alienate the fanbase after Leach had taken Tech to the highest levels the program had ever reached. I think they thought they might do poorly this year and then canning him would be easier.

[Leroy Lizard]

I with you on this Leroy. It looks like we are the only 2 who think that Leach did something wrong in this.

Go to the message boards of teams that have little experience with Leach and you get a different theme. Leach is a former OU assistant and a lot of people like him. I do as well. But I think he screwed up here.

[SoonerStormchaser]

I'm just gonna stop by and pipe in with my two cents after I read the OP:

"Too bad it wasn't a stretcher!"

That is all...carry on.

[StoopTroup]

Go to the message boards of teams that have little experience with Leach and you get a different theme. Leach is a former OU assistant and a lot of people like him. I do as well. But I think he screwed up here.

I don't think anyone is saying he didn't screw up.....we're saying it's bad for Football. Tech, Leach, Craig James and his Son all screwed up.

Your trying to make this all on Leach and it just isn't right of you to do it.

He didn't deserve to be fired. Adam didn't deserve a concussion. Craig should have had a better relationship with Leach if he thought his kid should play there. Tech shouldn't use this as a way to get rid of Leach.

It's a huge freaking mess.

Leach gets paid.

When that happens....it won't matter what message board you are posting on....Mike will still cash his check and Adam will be playing Football somewhere else. Tech will have hurt the Team Mike put together for them and recruiting will suffer.

[jkjsooner]

Coaches need to learn that you can't do these things!

If I have a parent that tries to influence me to change a grade for his daughter, and I threaten to broadcast that to the class, I'm going to end up in trouble. It's not the professional way to handle this situation.

I agree. It was entirely unprofessional that Leach threatened to play Craig's message. At that point it was between Leach and Craig James and to attempt to ridicule/embarrass Adam like that is inappropriate.

And, remember, Leach mentioned this on his own. Kind of makes me wonder how much of a doosh he really is.

[StoopTroup]

I agree. It was entirely unprofessional that Leach threatened to play Craig's message. At that point it was between Leach and Craig James and to attempt to ridicule/embarrass Adam like that is inappropriate.

And, remember, Leach mentioned this on his own. Kind of makes me wonder how much of a doosh he really is.

Or just how much crap he took from Craig.

How many calls should a Coach have to take from a parent about playing time?

My answer is zero.

Craig should have become a Coach like Dan Hawkins and just given his kid as much PT as he wanted.

[Leroy Lizard]

Or just how much crap he took from Craig.

How many callsl should a Coach have to take from a parent about playing time?

My answer is zero.

Then don't take them.

"Sorry Mr. James, but as I told you before I cannot discuss your son's playing time with you."

[boomerborn79]

Go to the message boards of teams that have little experience with Leach and you get a different theme. Leach is a former OU assistant and a lot of people like him. I do as well. But I think he screwed up here.

Fine he something wrong. But should he had lost his job for it. The fact that one kid took down a good coach is bull. I have followed the whole thing and many of his kids say that james is a punk and that Leach is a great coach. If the kid was a walk on and did not have a father who worked at ESPN we wouldn't know anything about it. The fan board is saying that he didn't deserve to be fired, and that James is a bad attitude kid who didn't work hard for his spot. If you had some load mouth punk kid interupting your class you would send him to the principles office. If the kid was the superintendents son I bet you wouldn't. James distracted the team while they were preparing for a bowl game. Leach sent him to an airconditioned room that was dark. Was it wrong? IF you disect it, maybe a little wrong. Did he need to get fired for it? NO. And as far as Tech rehiring him. Tt took as long as they could in nagotiations and the Fan base wanted him. That's why they signed him. If the school had wanted him don't ya think the negotiation process would have been alot quicker. If your a fan of the big twelve and/or football you know from last year that tt did not want leach. They couldn't justify getting rid of the coach that just won more games in one season than any other season. Now how about them Sooners:)

[OPSEC]

Okay, after reading 8 pages of analysis of what occurred here are my dos centavos. 1) IMHO...Leach did nothing wrong per se. Maybe what he said was taken out of context and followed to the letter, when he "may" just have been spouting off in frustration. 2) I am old school and I had two boys go through the trials and tribulations of listening to coaches bad mouth them for being...not worth playing time, while they thought otherwise. I NEVER complained to the coach, I never complained to the school. Why?! Not my business!!! If the kind cant play he cant play. If he can play but not become the next stud then take the nuggets and be happy and enjoy the friendships of your brethern and be happy with the memories you will make. (before anybody says it I LOVE MY BOYS but hey, if you aint got it, there is always something else) 3) Was wuss boy locked up with his cell phone when his was penned up? If so, why didnt he call somebody? And if he did, did he call daddy? 4) Does/did Leach word carry that much weight that the trainers followed it to the letter against their better training in medical matters and judgement?

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't think anyone is saying he didn't screw up.....we're saying it's bad for Football. Tech, Leach, Craig James and his Son all screwed up.

Your trying to make this all on Leach and it just isn't right of you to do it.

You have not been reading my posts. I have come down pretty hard on the Tech administration here. And I have come out said that Adam is likely a lazy whiner and that Craig James should never have become involved in this issue at all.

[boomerborn79]

Okay, after reading 8 pages of analysis of what occurred here are my dos centavos. 1) IMHO...Leach did nothing wrong per se. Maybe what he said was taken out of context and followed to the letter, when he "may" just have been spouting off in frustration. 2) I am old school and I had two boys go through the trials and tribulations of listening to coaches bad mouth them for being...not worth playing time, while they thought otherwise. I NEVER complained to the coach, I never complained to the school. Why?! Not my business!!! If the kind cant play he cant play. If he can play but not become the next stud then take the nuggets and be happy and enjoy the friendships of your brethern and be happy with the memories you will make. (before anybody says it I LOVE MY BOYS but hey, if you aint got it, there is always something else) 3) Was wuss boy locked up with his cell phone when his was penned up? If so, why didnt he call somebody? And if he did, did he call daddy? 4) Does/did Leach word carry that much weight that the trainers followed it to the letter against their better training in medical matters and judgement?

Ya, he had his phone he took pictures to prove how bad Leach was treating him. Like I said above, if this kid's dad isn't Craig James/ESPN it's not a story.

[StoopTroup]

Then don't take them.

"Sorry Mr. James, but as I told you before I cannot discuss your son's playing time with you."

You have heard that Craig then called administration. Administration caledl Leach by the looks of it. Leach told them all to stuff it eventually. Let the guy Coach. If you don't like the guy....hire someone else and pay him off.

They are trying to weasel out of Leach's Contract.

[StoopTroup]

Ya, he had his phone he took pictures to prove how bad Leach was treating him. Like I said above, if this kid's dad isn't Craig James/ESPN it's not a story.

Yep. Craig got used by the looks of it. Another life lesson for him and his Son.

[Leroy Lizard]

Fine he something wrong. But should he had lost his job for it. The fact that one kid took down a good coach is bull. I have followed the whole thing and many of his kids say that james is a punk and that Leach is a great coach. If the kid was a walk on and did not have a father who worked at ESPN we wouldn't know anything about it. The fan board is saying that he didn't deserve to be fired, and that James is a bad attitude kid who didn't work hard for his spot. If you had some load mouth punk kid interupting your class you would send him to the principles office. If the kid was the superintendents son I bet you wouldn't. James distracted the team while they were preparing for a bowl game. Leach sent him to an airconditioned room that was dark. Was it wrong? IF you disect it, maybe a little wrong. Did he need to get fired for it? NO. And as far as Tech rehiring him. Tt took as long as they could in nagotiations and the Fan base wanted him. That's why they signed him. If the school had wanted him don't ya think the negotiation process would have been alot quicker. If your a fan of the big twelve and/or football you know from last year that tt did not want leach. They couldn't justify getting rid of the coach that just won more games in one season than any other season. Now how about them Sooners

I don't think any of us can tell if Leach should have been fired because we don't know what transpired in the meeting between Leach and the administration. We're not even sure what happened on the practice field between Leach and Adam.

In your post you implied that Leach should have given preferential treatment to Adam James, comparing him to a superintendent's son. He is not the son of the chancellor or the athletic director, and it wouldn't matter anyway. Giving Adam James more leeway than he warranted is what started this mess in the first place. If Adam James was really such a malcontent, he should never have played at all. And if he was as bad as everyone says, Leach should have talked to him about his future on the team, just like with any other player.

[Leroy Lizard]

You have heard that Craig then called administration. Administration caledl Leach by the looks of it. Leach told them all to stuff it eventually. Let the guy Coach. If you don't like the guy....hire someone else and pay him off.

Let James call the administration. So what?

If the administration called Leach, what did they say? Give Adam more playing time? Leach can simply say "no" and be on solid ground.

[boomerborn79]

Yep. Craig got used by the looks of it. Another life lesson for him and his Son.

The way I see it- Craig got pissed his son wasn't playing, expressed it to his spoiled son. His son thought he and his father were above the coach. TT was tired and looking for an excuse to fire Leach. Leach got tired of focusing soo much time on one little punk and his father and decided to put him in the (shed). Pusth calls daddy, daddy calls admin, admin find reason= Leach get's fired. Now for the future- TT hires Briles from Baylor, Baylor hires Leach, Baylor becomes # 3 in the Big Twelve.

[boomerborn79]

I don't think any of us can tell if Leach should have been fired because we don't know what transpired in the meeting between Leach and the administration. We're not even sure what happened on the practice field between Leach and Adam.

In your post you implied that Leach should have given preferential treatment to Adam James, comparing him to a superintendent's son. He is not the son of the chancellor or the athletic director, and it wouldn't matter anyway. Giving Adam James more leeway than he warranted is what started this mess in the first place. If Adam James was really such a malcontent, he should never have played at all. And if he was as bad as everyone says, Leach should have talked to him about his future on the team, just like with any other player.

UHH, I wasn't implieng he needed special treatment. I was implying you wouldn't have the back bone to send the superintendents child to the office. I was kinda wanting to know what you would do. Since, you don't think what Leach and a HANDFULL of his assistance did. I am asking you if this is a story if his daddy doesn't work for ESPN?

[StoopTroup]

The way I see it- Craig got pissed his son wasn't playing, expressed it to his spoiled son. His son thought he and his father were above the coach. TT was tired and looking for an excuse to fire Leach. Leach got tired of focusing soo much time on one little punk and his father and decided to put him in the (shed). Pusth calls daddy, daddy calls admin, admin find reason= Leach get's fired. Now for the future- TT hires Briles from Baylor, Baylor hires Leach, Baylor becomes # 3 in the Big Twelve.

I think most of us are in agreement that some of these things are quite possibly right on the money.

Other than Husker and Bama Fans I'm not one to think that there are very many legitimate Message Boards that LL is getting his "Leach BS" from.

That I'm not reading LL's posts is such a crock of ****.

Baylor hiring Leach would be a hoot.

[StoopTroup]

Let James call the administration. So what?

If the administration called Leach, what did they say? Give Adam more playing time? Leach can simply say "no" and be on solid ground.

By solid ground you mean like the ground in Crested Butte?

[boomerborn79]

Stooptroup
That I'm not reading LL's posts is such a crock of ****.


You lost me.:confused:

[Leroy Lizard]

That I'm not reading LL's posts is such a crock of ****.

Let me clarify: You're not reading my posts with comprehension.

For example, I have come down on the Tech administration many times, but either didn't read those posts or conveniently ignore them.

[StoopTroup]

Stooptroup
That I'm not reading LL's posts is such a crock of ****.


You lost me.:confused:

Sorry it's post #171


You have not been reading my posts. I have come down pretty hard on the Tech administration here. And I have come out said that Adam is likely a lazy whiner and that Craig James should never have become involved in this issue at all.

You know....post 171 of 2100 which evidently is the number LL is willing to devote to this. :D

[StoopTroup]

Let me clarify: You're not reading my posts with comprehension.

For example, I have come down on the Tech administration many times, but either didn't read those posts or conveniently ignore them.

LMAO.

Comprehension?

Dude....if your ability to post is anything close to how you teach....I'm guessing that some kids probably need therapy after sitting through very much of your dribble.

[Leroy Lizard]

Comprehension?

Yes, comprehension. As I said, I have criticized the others involved in the dispute plenty of times.

[bluedogok]

Why would Briles leave Baylor for Tech now? He used the Tech interest last year to get a raise out of Baylor and is evidently getting somewhere close to market rate. Baylor has a pretty wealthy alumni base and one that thinks .500 is a winning season and an administration that seems less meddlesome.

I also think it is probably easier to recruit to Waco than Lubbock since it is located inside the Texas Triangle and not in another world for most Texans like Lubbock. My wife was from West Texas and knew what Lubbock was when she went there. A friend from Tyler played at Tech in the early 80's, he said he knew nothing about it and if he would have had another comparable offer from somewhere closer he would have taken it.

At most places, you don't want to follow an iconic coach, you want to follow the guy who followed him. I think most of us can agree that for Tech, Leach was an iconic coach there.

[boomerborn79]

LMAO.

Comprehension?

Dude....if your ability to post is anything close to how you teach....I'm guessing that some kids probably need therapy after sitting through very much of your dribble.

Maybe he taught Adam James:D :D No that was mean I don't want to make enemies with ya LL. Like I said earlier you just seem aggrivated and take any disagreement to heart. Lighten up it's not that serious.

[StoopTroup]

If I ever see Mike again...I'm gonna thank him for recruiting Crabtree. If he hadn't done that...we wouldn't have been able to enjoy that end zone play and the nail in the whorn coffin.

Best * I ever got was because of Mike Leach.

[boomerborn79]

Why would Briles leave Baylor for Tech now? He used the Tech interest last year to get a raise out of Baylor and is evidently getting somewhere close to market rate. Baylor has a pretty wealthy alumni base and one that thinks .500 is a winning season and an administration that seems less meddlesome.

I also think it is probably easier to recruit to Waco than Lubbock since it is located inside the Texas Triangle and not in another world for most Texans like Lubbock. My wife was from West Texas and knew what Lubbock was when she went there. A friend from Tyler played at Tech in the early 80's, he said he knew nothing about it and if he would have had another comparable offer from somewhere closer he would have taken it.

At most places, you don't want to follow an iconic coach, you want to follow the guy who followed him. I think most of us can agree that for Tech, Leach was an iconic coach there.

For tech, yes. I read that senerio earier today that tech wants Briles on the short list. I think if that happens then Leach is a perfect fit for Baylor. Can you imagine the story lines:D

[StoopTroup]

I think it will be interesting as the interim if he thought he was "The Man"....you'd think they wouldn't even have a list.

I feel bad for that guy as it would seem that he does care about the Players and the Team...but he's gonna get by-passed and it would seem that his chance at being Coach is only improved by the number of better candidates that don't even want an interview for a job in Lubbock.

[StoopTroup]

Yes, comprehension. As I said, I have criticized the others involved in the dispute plenty of times.

Comprend this....

**** OFF DIP****!

[Curly Bill]

Comprend this....

**** OFF DIP****!


I think I get it! :D

[boomerborn79]

Comprend this....

**** OFF DIP****!

PULL OFF DIPENDS:confused: you mean depends:D

[Leroy Lizard]

Comprend this....

**** OFF DIP****!

Uh oh. It looks like I hurt someone's feelings.

[ashley]

Briles to TT. Yes he would take it for the same money because at TT you can keep in marginal sat guys in school longer than at Baylor.

[soonerhubs]

Uh oh. It looks like I hurt someone's feelings.

I vehemently disagree. You're wrong. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

Okay, so I somehow enhanced someone's feelings? :D

[soonerhubs]

Okay, so I somehow enhanced someone's feelings? :D

Enhanced is a relative term. One which can take on too many meanings. Since you're so abstract in your colloquial post, I'll have to disagree, unless you can be more specific. :D

[Leroy Lizard]

abstract... colloquial... I can't touch that.

[soonerspudman]

Potts suffered a concussion early in the year didn't he? Did Leach make him go to a dark room and stand? If he didn't, then he brought all this on himself. James jr. is probably a spoiled little prick. But Mike Leach is supposed to be a professional. Being pissed at James and his dad really doesn't justify Leach being stupid. And doing what he did was stupid, if he didn't do that with other players that had concussions, he shouldn't have done it to James. I hate slackers as much as anybody, but Leach was a dumbass for doing what he did, and he knows it.


Yep, word. Leach was in the driver's seat on this until he lost his cool. Lots of ways to get a bad egg like James (both of them) out of the program.

However, to be fair to Leach, most administrations would have the coach's backside in a dispute with a parent like James (before the incident), Tech probably saw this as an opportunity to tweak Leach, the Leach/Tech relationship was probably destined to implode anyway, this is just how it happened to go.

[sooneron]

I'm still trying to figure out how a teacher and a classroom is something that can be compared to a coach and a football team made up of 250 lbs (average) turf stompers.

It does not compute. Totally different situations and needs. It's laughable, LL.

[Leroy Lizard]

What code of conduct are you trying exempt coaches from following?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I personally think that coaches shouldn't even have to follow the Geneva Conventions

[olevetonahill]

You have not been reading my posts. I have come down pretty hard on the Tech administration here. And I have come out said that Adam is likely a lazy whiner and that Craig James should never have become involved in this issue at all.

You've taken about every ****ing side there is to Take in this deal
You make me dizzy :rolleyes:

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

To be fair, if you take every side, eventually you will be right. Plus Vet you aren't an educator...you wouldn't understand

[olevetonahill]

Okay, so I somehow enhanced someone's feelings? :D

Yer Drivel just makes me wanta Barf , hows that :rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

To be fair, if you take every side, eventually you will be right. Plus Vet you aren't an educator...you wouldn't understand

Ive Taught some knuckle heads a Few of Life's lessons :D

[Leroy Lizard]

You've taken about every ****ing side there is to Take in this deal
You make me dizzy

I consider the merits of all sides. You may find this hard to believe, but it is quite possible that more than one person is at fault.

[olevetonahill]

I consider the merits of all sides. You may find this hard to believe, but it is quite possible that more than one person is at fault.

Well DUH .
Ive never put the entire Blame on any one
The Majority tho is the Admin fer their Desire the be rid Of Mike , and using vAJ as a pawn to do it .
I havnt waffled , you have on the other hand have argued this from every side :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

I havnt waffled , you have on the other hand have argued this from every side

Show me where I've been inconsistent.

Sure you can be consistent by ignoring new developments. When the affidavits were released, a lot of people in here just assumed they must be lying because they had already hitched their wagon to a single argument. You don't want to have blinders on.

[King Barry's Back]

Let James call the administration. So what?

If the administration called Leach, what did they say? Give Adam more playing time? Leach can simply say "no" and be on solid ground.

Leroy,

What I am about to say is going to sound like a personal attack against you. I don't mean it that way, but it's probably going to sound that way. So my apologies up front.

I don't really know anything about you except what you post, and that you teach school or are a professor, or something like that.

Leroy, I spent a pretty good share of my career among academics, and I'll tell you their biggest collective short coming.

It is this. They live largely in a theoretical world, where they make assumptions and hold some variables constant, and then bravely and unwaveringly state that the world behaves accordingly.

This is exactly how you are behaving. You seem to believe that there are "rules" to how to coach football at a big time university, that everybody from waterboy to chancellor is doing their best to adhere rigorously to those rules, that none of these people would stand to gain by breaking them, and that if anyone associated with the university DID break the rules, that would be a serious offense.

Let me just posit to you a hypothetical scenario -- maybe there aren't set rules to coaching football. Maybe the genuine rule is "win games and get along with the AD." Or maybe the genuine rule is "get the big money, high-roller donors behind you and minimize the AD," or maybe the genuine rule is "don't let slackers become cancers that undermine the morale of your team and cause numerous problems and unnecessary losses."

Regarding shunning of responsibility (I know that you'll claim that you never advocated the shunning of responsibility -- You suggest that Mike Leach should call the AD and say "Craig James is calling me!" To what end? That's Mike Leach's responsibility, not the AD. I'm not sure it's the AD's business even. If that's a private conversation, as you contend, he shouldn't be discussing it with the AD at all.

And is the AD, that clearly hates Mike, going to help/support Mike in any way? They were already enemies.

Again, I don't mean this personally, but you seem to have a very bureaucratic mindset, that avoids risk, shuns responsibility, and generally does not produce runaway success like a 12-1 season at Tx Tech.

What you might want to consider is that sometimes, decisions are not "process" decisions, they are "political" decisions. Meaning that, in the end, the result is not the product of following dry, cold rules and regs drawn out on paper, but the result of relationships and relative power between real, breathing people.

In this case, the AD clearly thought Leach was a pain in the ***. He wanted to fire him LAST YEAR, after the guy went 12-1. AD clearly did not have enough RELATIVE POWER to fire the architect of the finest season that Tech will ever have in our lifetimes. So the AD was FORCED to bide his time.

Now, Mike Leach is getting harassed by a player's daddy. The daddy has NO OFFICIAL BUSINESS REASON WHATSOEVER to speak to Leach about little boy's playing time, but daddy is a VERY BIG FISH in the sports world, and therefore daddy wants to use that relative power to intimidate/influence Leach to come to a decision that daddy likes better.

Could Mike have said "No, I won't play him, and No I won't take anymore calls,"?

Maybe, but wouldn't if you were Mike, wouldn't you rather try to keep a big ESPN caster on your side? Maybe that's why Leach offered the kid to begin with.

There's so much to this story that you, and many others are overlooking.

[olevetonahill]

Show me where I've been inconsistent.

Never said you were inconsistent
Just said you've argued every dayum side of this thing. See Im sayin yer consistant.:pop: :eek:

[SoonerBacker]

When the affidavits were released, a lot of people in here just assumed they must be lying because they had already hitched their wagon to a single argument. You don't want to have blinders on.

Not really. When the affidavits were released, I assumed they must be lying because they contradicted statments made by those same people at an earlier date. Either they lied in the earlier statements, or they lied in the affidavits. The only real question is WHEN did they lie!

I would have to guess that they lied in their affidavits. Why? Because those were released AFTER Leach made their previous comments public in an open interview with eSPIN. Call me cynical if you want, but this just smells of coercion by the Tceh admin!

[olevetonahill]

Not really. When the affidavits were released, I assumed they must be lying because they contradicted statments made by those same people at an earlier date. Either they lied in the earlier statements, or they lied in the affidavits. The only real question is WHEN did they lie!

I would have to guess that they lied in their affidavits. Why? Because those were released AFTER Leach made their previous comments public in an open interview with eSPIN. Call me cynical if you want, but this just smells of coercion by the Tceh admin!

So they just lied
now when did they Lie
Before or after ?

Makes a difference. KInda like the young lady that took Money fer sex , Did she take it Before the sex ? that makes her a Ho
did she take it After ?
That makes her a Mistress

either way she put out .

[sooneron]

What code of conduct are you trying exempt coaches from following?

Going out onto a football field requires more than manners and good study habits. It requires a LOT of mental discipline and a whole lot more toughness. Not so much, in regards to a classroom. I know, you don't really get it. To compare one situation to another is silly.

What Leach did was not THAT bad. It did not put the lil prima donna at risk or in harm's way. Sadly, Adam James probably couldn't have even handled a greek pledgeship at OU back in the 80's. Far worse was done to me and I never went to momma or daddy about it.

Leach handled the aftermath wrong, some say. I have seen coach's lauded for going up to the admin and saying it's their team and they handle it the way that they see fit.
The only thing that Mike should have done was look more at the writing on the wall and made some half assed apology just like so many coach's that are afraid to lose their jobs. Maybe that's it. He didn't want to keep a job and forfeit his principles. It's not like there aren't better places to coach and there sure are a lot of better towns to live in, than Lubbock. His only issue now is his rep, which has taken something of a beating. I guarantee that he hasn't said his peace on this- the only issue is that C James has a permanent soapbox to refute at will from...

[SoonerStormchaser]

Mooooo!
http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/HappyCow.jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

Regarding shunning of responsibility (I know that you'll claim that you never advocated the shunning of responsibility -- You suggest that Mike Leach should call the AD and say "Craig James is calling me!" To what end? That's Mike Leach's responsibility, not the AD. I'm not sure it's the AD's business even. If that's a private conversation, as you contend, he shouldn't be discussing it with the AD at all.

This is where you're wrong. If Craig James is threatening to use his position at ESPN to get playing time for his son, that needs to be handled at the AD level.

You seem to live in a renegade world where a coach handles things however he feels. "Hey, why don't we threaten Adam to play the tapes of the voice mail to the entire team? That would really shut him up!" "Adam James is a slacker. Let's just throw his *** into an electrical closet. That'll fix his wagon!"

If coaching is truly a profession, then there are standards for how you handle things. My complaint about some of my colleagues is that they also have this notion that since they are professors, anything goes. "I'm tenured. I can make the student stand in front of the class and bark like a dog."


And is the AD, that clearly hates Mike, going to help/support Mike in any way? They were already enemies.

You still have to report it and let him handle it. You can't let personal grudges get in the way of procedures. This is true at a university and in business. It's true in the military too. "I didn't report it to my CO because we don't get along." What kind of operation is that?


Again, I don't mean this personally, but you seem to have a very bureaucratic mindset, that avoids risk, shuns responsibility, and generally does not produce runaway success like a 12-1 season at Tx Tech.

Runaway success? He just got fired. The Tech administration is in hot water. Craig James is in trouble at ESPN (or will be soon). Adam James will probably have to transfer. And all this because people didn't act professionally.

The Tech football team has a lot of talent and has performed admirably on the field. The wheels have just come off. Obviously, there are problems. I contend that a lack of professionalism on all sides caused it.

When people act like renegades, doing whatever makes them feel good without concern for protocol, these things happen.


Now, Mike Leach is getting harassed by a player's daddy. The daddy has NO OFFICIAL BUSINESS REASON WHATSOEVER to speak to Leach about little boy's playing time, but daddy is a VERY BIG FISH in the sports world, and therefore daddy wants to use that relative power to intimidate/influence Leach to come to a decision that daddy likes better.

Could Mike have said "No, I won't play him, and No I won't take anymore calls,"?

Maybe, but wouldn't if you were Mike, wouldn't you rather try to keep a big ESPN caster on your side? Maybe that's why Leach offered the kid to begin with.

And what was the result? How did that work out for him?

If you give a higher grade to a student because their father is a senator, it can come back to bite you. It's called a "scandal." That is why we have rules against that sort of thing.

[Leroy Lizard]

Going out onto a football field requires more than manners and good study habits. It requires a LOT of mental discipline and a whole lot more toughness. Not so much, in regards to a classroom. I know, you don't really get it. To compare one situation to another is silly.

What Leach did was not THAT bad. It did not put the lil prima donna at risk or in harm's way.

What Leach did was unusual and outside the norm of what is considered professional, at least if the affidavits are correct. THAT is what got him in hot water.

A coach has to treat student-athletes with respect, even the malcontents. Leach didn't. And now the situation has spiraled out of control on account of it.

If everyone acts like a professional, none of this happens. And the faculty code of conduct is a good place to start. Sure, the two positions are not identical, but to me they are more alike than different.

Why? Because this is not the NFL. This is the UNIVERSITY of Oklahoma. It is an institute of higher learning. The act of throwing students into darkened electrical closets has no business on a university campus.

[sooneron]

What Leach did was unusual and outside the norm of what is considered professional, at least if the affidavits are correct. THAT is what got him in hot water.

You mean the affidavits that suddenly don't correspond with what the trainers were saying at first? I'm not going to get into the forced hand conversation with you, as you idealistically seem to think it could never happen. :rolleyes:
and WRONG on what got him fired. The chancellor said as much in a radio interview that I heard on Mike and Mike. He said that they went to Mike and (in chancellor speak) said that he wouldn't apologize for what he had done.




A coach has to treat student-athletes with respect, even the malcontents. Leach didn't. And now the situation has spiraled out of control on account of it.


For how long does a player that is a problem WITH a parent that presses the coaching staff for PT deserve to receive any sort of respect?



If everyone acts like a professional, none of this happens. And the faculty code of conduct is a good place to start. Sure, the two positions are not identical, but to me they are more alike than different.


Not that alike. How long do you normally have to deal with a student? 4-5 hours a week? Do you feel a certain amount of responsibility for the psyche or morale of an entire department? I doubt it.




Why? Because this is not the NFL. This is the UNIVERSITY of Oklahoma. It is an institute of higher learning. The act of throwing students into darkened electrical closets has no business on a university campus.

And where do you think most of these kids want to end up? It is your duty (if you are a professor) to prepare those under your supervision the best you can for life after college within the bounds of their coursework in your class. How is it not a coach's?

[Leroy Lizard]

You mean the affidavits that suddenly don't correspond with what the trainers were saying at first? I'm not going to get into the forced hand conversation with you, as you idealistically seem to think it could never happen.

It can happen. Unlike you, I don't assume that it must have happened just to fit my own argument.


and WRONG on what got him fired. The chancellor said as much in a radio interview that I heard on Mike and Mike. He said that they went to Mike and (in chancellor speak) said that he wouldn't apologize for what he had done.

I meant that the incident with the electrical closet (or whatever the Hell it was) initiated the entire mess. It wasn't necessarily the reason Mike got fired, but without it none of this happens.


For how long does a player that is a problem WITH a parent that presses the coaching staff for PT deserve to receive any sort of respect?

First of all, the parent's involvement should not color the treatment of the player one iota. It's not necessarily the student 's fault that the parent is a pain in the ***. Why take it out on him? The problem with Leach and the parent is between Leach and the parent; the student should never have been involved in it.


Not that alike. How long do you normally have to deal with a student? 4-5 hours a week? Do you feel a certain amount of responsibility for the psyche or morale of an entire department? I doubt it.

Well, a doctoral advisor can deal with a student for much longer than 4-5 hours per week. No matter, you still deal with the same rules of behavior.


And where do you think most of these kids want to end up? It is your duty (if you are a professor) to prepare those under your supervision the best you can for life after college within the bounds of their coursework in your class. How is it not a coach's?

Only maybe ten out of the 90 players under a coach's supervision are going to end up in the NFL. The others are going to end up in the workplace, just like the rest of the students on campus.

And tell me how throwing Adam into an electrical closet is tantamount to preparing him for life after college?

To me, it boils down to arrogance. When you think you are s-o-o-o-o-o important, and that your job is s-o-o-o-o-o specialized, that the rules don't apply to you, that is arrogance. Some of my colleagues have that problem. They think that they are tenured professors and, therefore, s-o-o-o-o unique and s-o-o-o-o smart that they can do whatever they want.

[sooneron]

It can happen. Unlike you, I don't assume that it must have happened just to fit my own argument.

You don't find it a bit odd that they did a 180 when they put pen to paper? Uh, ok. Even if you believe the affidavit, they don't seem too credible at this point.


I meant that the incident with the electrical closet (or whatever the Hell it was) initiated the entire mess. It wasn't necessarily the reason Mike got fired, but without it none of this happens.

That and the fact that TTU would have to pony up another 800K to Mike last Thurs.


First of all, the parent's involvement should not color the treatment of the player one iota. It's not necessarily the student 's fault that the parent is a pain in the ***. Why take it out on him? The problem with Leach and the parent is between Leach and the parent; the student should never have been involved in it.
I hate to say it, but it will eventually color the treatment (moreso) when said player is not doing his part for the team.



Well, a doctoral advisor can deal with a student for much longer than 4-5 hours per week. No matter, you still deal with the same rules of behavior.


goody for you, but this is where you probably never broach mental toughness with a doctoral candidate.


Only maybe ten out of the 90 players under a coach's supervision are going to end up in the NFL. The others are going to end up in the workplace, just like the rest of the students on campus.
That doesn't matter, that coach's job is to make that kid a bad *** on the field. Otherwise, you end up with a league full of kickers.


And tell me how throwing Adam into an electrical closet is tantamount to preparing him for life after college?
So now Leach "threw" him in the closet? Or had his trainer do it? You sure are getting creative at embellishment here. James could have walked off the field and said "**** this, I'm going the doctor".


To me, it boils down to arrogance. When you think you are s-o-o-o-o-o important, and that your job is s-o-o-o-o-o specialized, that the rules don't apply to you, that is arrogance. Some of my colleagues have that problem. They think that they are tenured professors and, therefore, s-o-o-o-o unique and s-o-o-o-o smart that they can do whatever they want.
A football coach runs a dictatorship, for lack of a better word. As more comes out, it seems that arrogance was pretty even between the parties here.

[badger]

You all need to check this board out - Tide fans naming things tougher than Adam James. (http://forums.tidesports.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3631098265/m/5081044459)

I've like Bammers since we played them in 2002 :D

[StoopTroup]

You all need to check this board out - Tide fans naming things tougher than Adam James. (http://forums.tidesports.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3631098265/m/5081044459)

I've like Bammers since we played them in 2002 :D

LMAO....

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w10/bamaphil1226/trevin-n19226498_37774705_2328.jpg

[sooneron]

Is that Chris Simms?

[StoopTroup]

It does kind of look like him....lol

Here's a good pic of Adam and Mike. Adam is the guy taking a water break....lol

http://news.spreadit.org/pics/mike-leach-fired.jpg

Here's a younger Simms.

http://splog.nationallampoon.com/files/2009/09/chrissimms.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

Adam sure is an ugly bastage for such a pansy.

[TUSooner]

You all need to check this board out - Tide fans naming things tougher than Adam James. (http://forums.tidesports.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3631098265/m/5081044459)

I've like Bammers since we played them in 2002 :D

Somebody needs to send them Bammers some Bikerfox. :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

Here's one they need to add:

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_031709/content/01125107.Par.4584.ImageFile.jpg

[Veritas]

Ya know, if you don't feed the trolls, they won't keep responding to every freaking post in these Leach threads. :rolleyes:

[Crucifax Autumn]

But if you do feed them, you get to hope they choke on it! lol

[badger]

That's why I'm here Veritas, to ignore every other post and just chime in with something incredibly random every once in awhile (that I stole off RaiderPower.com without crediting the Sand Aggie site, hehe)

[stoops the eternal pimp]

So, has anybody asked Craig James why so many people think his son is a doosh rocket who acts like he is entitled?...

ohh,the player taking a stand against leach, brandon carter....thats just hilarious in itself

[Crucifax Autumn]

No kidding. The craziest looking dude in football is the one piling on against the "crazy coach". That's just funny.

[Crucifax Autumn]

OF course we all know that HE was suspended this season too, so no big shock that he's running his mouth.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Exactly....I would take his bitching as a ringing endorsement for leach...

[badger]

So, has anybody asked Craig James why so many people think his son is a doosh rocket who acts like he is entitled?...

Yup... kind of. Here's his response:

Craig: This isn’t something we asked for. We continue to be a victim of something. Our family is going through a lot right now, far more than we ever wanted to go through.

Lulz. James family's the victim... well, they weren't before, but they d@mn sure are now, eh?

[Crucifax Autumn]

MAybe they should go on Oprah and tell everyone of their pain.

[badger]

MAybe they should go on Oprah and tell everyone of their pain.

Or maybe, I should take a soundboard from Dr. Phil and Judge Judy and act out what would go down in court :D

[Piware]

[QUOTE=badger;2806809]Yup... kind of. Here's his response:

Craig: This isn’t something we asked for. We continue to be a victim of something. Our family is going through a lot right now, far more than we ever wanted to go through.

When Daddy James says they are going through a lot right now, I believe him. What I think happened is that CJ kept bugging Mike Leach about playing time for the little jerk. The "He locked me up story" was the perfect opportunity for Big Daddy to call TT Admin and get them to tell Leach that when he or his jacka$$ son said frog, Mike's response was to jump as high as he was told.

The AD, on the other hand, saw this as the way to get rid of Leach and smear him at the same time. Thus the suspension, the the firing citing player abuse knowing that would be REAL hard to disprove. The AD can polish his halo (and perhaps squeeze TT for a raise) for being a player safety advocate.

When CJ says this is far more than we ever wanted to go through, I believe that too. I think their intent was to go over Leach's head so they could call the tune and he would have to dance. Now they are the instigators of a situation that backfired big time and sonny boy is probably finished in college football - not that he was much to write home about anyway.

Be careful what you ask for - you are liable to get it and then some.

[Leroy Lizard]

You don't find it a bit odd that they did a 180 when they put pen to paper? Uh, ok. Even if you believe the affidavit, they don't seem too credible at this point.

It's not unusual at all to change your tune when being threatened with a charge of perjury for lying.

"The sound bites for the media were fun and I got to stick up for the coach against that jackass James kid, but now they are telling me that I have to put my recollections on paper with threat of perjury. Gee, maybe I should go ahead and lay it straight."

That is why people change their stance on the witness stand. The seriousness of perjury makes people think twice about lying and sometimes makes them change their testimony.

Now, having said that, there is a chance also that they changed their tune because the administration put the screws on them. I acknowledge that. You ONLY acknowledge that, because you really want to believe that Mike did no wrong. So to you the fact they changed their argument can only mean one thing: they are now lying but were telling the truth before, because that fits your argument.

Regardless of how you feel about it, their comments to the media were unofficial. The signed affidavits are official. You can cry all you want, but that's the way it is.

[Leroy Lizard]

I hate to say it, but it will eventually color the treatment (moreso) when said player is not doing his part for the team.

The player not doing his part is a separate issue and should be treated separately. There was no reason to drag his dad into the fray.


goody for you, but this is where you probably never broach mental toughness with a doctoral candidate.

A Ph.D. in mathematics takes a lot of mental toughness. Don't kid yourself.


That doesn't matter, that coach's job is to make that kid a bad *** on the field. Otherwise, you end up with a league full of kickers.

Explain how having someone stand in the dark for two hours makes them into a badass. You still haven't explained that.

You can have a good football team without inflicting unusual punishments on the players. I never heard Stoops doing anything like this. To me, this is simply nothing more than a coach mishandling a situation with no tangible benefit in mind. What was he even trying to accomplish?

Part of being professional is knowing why you are doing something when you are doing it. There needs to be a goal in mind, and the actions have to be chosen to reach that goal. I have no idea what Leach was trying to accomplish here, and I don't even know if he knows. To me, having James stand in an electrical closet smacks of vindictiveness born out of frustration. I can understand why Leach did it. But that doesn't make it a good decision.

The coaching community needs to learn from this and discuss the proper ways of treating players. If they drafted their own code of conduct, that would be even better.


So now Leach "threw" him in the closet? Or had his trainer do it? You sure are getting creative at embellishment here. James could have walked off the field and said "**** this, I'm going the doctor".

Nice jog around the question. What was the goal behind Leach's decision?


A football coach runs a dictatorship, for lack of a better word. As more comes out, it seems that arrogance was pretty even between the parties here.

That's no excuse for Leach's own arrogance.

And he doesn't run a dictatorship. Dictators might get shot, but they don't get fired.

[StoopTroup]

Leroid is on Tech's short list for the new HC

[stoops the eternal pimp]

you guys need to learn to appreciate Double L

[Curly Bill]

you guys need to learn to appreciate Double L

You mean LL Bean? ;)

[Leroy Lizard]

Leroid is on Tech's short list for the new HC

StoopTroup wishes for a gay Leach.

[btk108]

you guys need to learn to appreciate Double L

I can appreciate Double D's.....but Double L's?.....WOW!

[StoopTroup]

you guys need to learn to appreciate Double L

I like Leroid.

[Explodo]

Leroy entertains me. IN that way of hunting for a spare roll of toliet paper when the last square has been used.

[sooneron]

Alright, I am dropping this because you have proven basically nothing, as you seem to not understand anything about the sport of football and how to discipline a dumbass lazy 20 yr old. Maybe all the coaches can have a daisy weaving circle after they draft their "Don't be such a meanie" legislation. :rolleyes:

[boomerborn79]

Leroy= NickZep ?????