Navy vs Missouri

[Leroy Lizard]

Navy's offense is sooooo predictable. They run the same play every time.

Seriously though, that Navy option offense looks beautiful.

[goingoneight]

We should petition to have their predictable OC fired, too.

[Leroy Lizard]

How stupid of Navy to run an offense that every Internet fan knows cannot work any longer.

[Scott D]

God that was a fun 4th quarter to watch (since I missed the rest of the game to watch the entire Sun Bowl).

[soonerloyal]

I spend far too much time during Navy games yelling "OOH-RAH!" every time I see a USMC patch on the jerseys, to bitch about the plays. Can't help myself, it's a Marine Mom thang.

[Leroy Lizard]

The first team that runs that offense with four-star players is going to eat everyone alive.

[Thousands Strong]

Maybe now the Conference will just give Mizzou an unconditional release. That performance was MUCH more worthy of the big ten.

[steebu]

The first team that runs that offense with four-star players is going to eat everyone alive.

Um. Georgia Tech?

They have a 4* QB, Josh Nesbitt (who was a shotgun dink n' dunker in high school), a 4* B-Back, Jonathan Dwyer, and 4* WR Demaryius Thomas. They won the ACC this year running a "high school offense".*

They led the ACC in rushing, scoring, passing efficiency, and total offense. They finished 2nd in the nation in rushing, and first in plays of 20+ yards, 30+ yards, and 50+ yards. They are 13th in total offense nationally. Anyone who thinks this is a high school offense or is a 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense is sadly mistaken.

Paul Johnson is responsible for all of this. He inherited Chan Gailey's "NFL-style" players (what does that mean, anyway?) and got them to buy into an option-based spread attack that has churned up 20 wins and a conference championship.

Just wait until he gets "his" guys in the system, then you're really gonna see things humming. If he had his offense with our defense, GT would be 13-0 and turning the BCS upside down.



* before last year's Georgia-Georgia Tech game (a HUGE rivalry), Eric Zeier, a former GA QB, referred to GT's offense as "a high school offense." After GT hung 45 on the dawgs and beat them on the road Paul Johnson said in his post-game presser, "Ask Eric how he likes that high school offense now."

[Leroy Lizard]

But... but... defenses are too quick for the option to work. :D

[steebu]

But... but... defenses are too quick for the option to work. :D

I know you're kidding, but do you have any idea how pissed off I am when people say stuff like that?

FWIW, I grew up in Tulsa so I am Sooner born and Sooner bred, and when I die I'll be Sooner dead, but I went to school at GT and finished when Cale Gundy finished at OU (most of my events are made in reference to things that happened at OU). Like most of you I grew up watching the option and wishbone and watched it develop in different ways, particularly when Paul Johnson was beating up I-AA with Georgia Southern with the original Adrian Peterson.

I think it'd be a heckuva hire to bring Johnson to OU, but Stoops would never leave and Johnson would never come.

Regardless, GT's offense is a thing of beauty when it's humming. Anyone catch the GT-FSU game? If you like offense, man, GT had three 2-play drives of 65+ yards for TDs. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Jimmie Johnson. This GT team would've destroyed Miami's 87 defense.

[Leroy Lizard]

I know you're kidding, but do you have any idea how pissed off I am when idiots say stuff like that?

Fixed.

[ndpruitt03]

The first team that runs that offense with four-star players is going to eat everyone alive.

See Ga Tech and they lost 3 or 4 this year.

[ndpruitt03]

The thing that's added to these new options is better passers. Air Force had a QB go 10-14 for 161 today. Ga Tech is the same way they really throw good deep balls. The old option didn't really have great consistent passers.

[TUSooner]

Somebody stole Leroy Lizard's password! He's making jokes!!

:D :D :D

Seeing a well-run option is like seeing an old girlfriend you never quite got over.

[steebu]

See Ga Tech and they lost 3 or 4 this year.

They lost 3 or 4 games this year? Where do you get your stats? They went 11-2.

[steebu]

The thing that's added to these new options is better passers. Air Force had a QB go 10-14 for 161 today. Ga Tech is the same way they really throw good deep balls. The old option didn't really have great consistent passers.

It's not just the passers, it's the formation that GT, Navy, and Air Force run out of. The old wishbone had 3 running backs in the backfield and 2 WR's (or 1 WR and 1 TE).

The spread the Paul Johnson employs has 3 running backs and 4 wide receivers with no strong side. Erm, what? How do you have 3 RB's and 4 WR's? That's the beauty of the formation and using quick "tail" motion. Using tail motion one of the slotbacks, or A-Backs, dots the "I" when the ball is snapped. If there is no tail motion, there are 4 WR's at the line like the run n' shoot. The defense MUST play honestly and cannot gang up on the run or they'll get burned deep (as many teams have this year).

I know I'm frustrated when I see 3rd and 2 and we line up in shotgun with 5 WR's, then Landry checks with the sideline, walks up and down the line, signals to his WR's, then calls time-out because the playclock has 1 second left. Man, I wish Paul Johnson were here because he'd say, "4th and 3? Whatever, we'll run triple option at you because you can't stop it."

[Scott D]

more importantly in this whole silly argument are two fine points.

1. it seems harder to stop now because fewer teams actually run the offense. If more teams transferred over to that type of offense, then it wouldn't take very long before it'd be back to being called antiquated and stifled. What works for GT is that teams generally only have a single week to prepare for it. If half the ACC ran the triple option then GT loses every single advantage they have in running it.

2. don't ever pay attention to nick quoting statistics, they're usually wrong along with the point he usually tries to make.

[ndpruitt03]

They lost 3 or 4 games this year? Where do you get your stats? They went 11-2.

They lost to Georgia, Miami and maybe one other game. I was just going off of memory.

[steebu]

They lost to Georgia, Miami and maybe one other game. I was just going off of memory.

LOL.

They lost to Miami and Georgia, and that's it. They went 11-2.

I WATCHED EVERY GEORGIA TECH GAME THIS SEASON (and OU, btw). :-)

[steebu]

more importantly in this whole silly argument are two fine points.

1. it seems harder to stop now because fewer teams actually run the offense. If more teams transferred over to that type of offense, then it wouldn't take very long before it'd be back to being called antiquated and stifled. What works for GT is that teams generally only have a single week to prepare for it. If half the ACC ran the triple option then GT loses every single advantage they have in running it.

2. don't ever pay attention to nick quoting statistics, they're usually wrong along with the point he usually tries to make.

Very true, nobody really runs this variant of the option so yes, it is harder to defend because no one runs it. Everything you put in the week you play GT gets thrown out the next, because nothing holds over. There's a whole thread on "The Contrarian Offense" (go look it up) and that's exactly what PJ is doing. I do, however, disagree with with GT losing every single advantage they have if half the ACC ran their offense. You still have to stop it. Woody Widenhofer back in '86 said, "OU's gonna run fullback power and triple option. We just have to stop it." And they lost 77-0. You still have to execute, and what makes this variant of the option so hard to defend is

1. it hits extremely quick. The mesh that Florida and West Virginia employ takes place 6 yards behind the LOS in the shotgun. LB's can literally squat and wait to see what happens. The mesh GT employs takes place a yard behind the LOS and LB's must react much more quickly.

2. Johnson changes the blocking schemes on the fly. You'll see the dive run through the A-gap. Then the B-gap. Then the C-gap. Then he'll trap it. Then reverse-pivot the QB and trap it. Then reverse-dive opposite of the tail motion.

I think someone to keep an eye on is Ivin Jasper, the Navy offensive coordinator. He played QB under Johnson at Hawaii when they ran more run n' shoot, and you can see how Jasper's playcalling and scheming torched Mizzou today. If it weren't for those two red-zone turnovers it could've easily been 49-13.

Well, whatever, I'm starting to rant and get disagreeable. :-)

[Leroy Lizard]

What works for GT is that teams generally only have a single week to prepare for it

Missouri and Houston had plenty of time to prepare for Navy and Air Force, and look what that got them.

C'mon, these are just excuses.

[Scott D]

Yes, but Missouri is average at best...and that is giving them credit. Houston has been getting progressively worse each week for the last month.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yes, but Missouri is average at best...and that is giving them credit. Houston has been getting progressively worse each week for the last month.

And how well does Air Force and Navy recruit each year in comparison to Missouri and Houston?

[steebu]

And how well does Air Force and Navy recruit each year in comparison to Missouri and Houston?

I guess 1 week wasn't enough for Charlie Weis' 5* recruits to prepare for Navy's 1* and 0* recruits.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yeah, I'm sure Notre Dame doesn't have any speed on defense.

And they had to focus on that powerful Washington State team on the week before.

And don't forget that Ohio St. had all summer to prepare for their opener against Navy and barely won (and gave up 342 yards on defense).

[steebu]

Tru dat. Navy was a missed 2-pt conversion away from a monumental upset.

And riddle me this: how come Clempson (yes, GT fans call 'em "Clempson"), with their fantastic athleticism and months to prepare, gave up 30 and 39 points and almost 900 yards of offense to GT? They freaking played GT TWICE in the same season, for all the good it did them.

[Scott D]

having known guys who played football in high school that went to both Academies it's not like the guys they have aren't talented.

[steebu]

True, but there is a definite talent discrepancy between the Academies and the big-name schools. When Ricky Dobbs, the Navy QB, threw the game-losing interception on the 2-point conversion against Ohio State, he couldn't run down the 250-lb Ohio State linebacker, despite having the angle. I actually felt sorry for him, and it's not like he's an unathletic guy.

[Scott D]

True enough, and a fair majority of their success on the field has to do with their discipline on and off the field. But, there has also been from time to time NFL caliber talent at all three of the service Academies as well, just usually not more than 1 or 2 at a given time.

If OU's offensive line could have been even half as disciplined as Navy's then this team would have been in a BCS bowl this season even with the injuries.

[Petro-Sooner]

Hey missouri!

BWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

[VA Sooner]

Missed the Mizzou game... sounded like a debacle. Thanks for clarifying on this post!