The mega-gigantor things Mike Leach thread

[TexasLidig8r]

Lid, you know texass law...how big of a violation of the Sunshine Law is Hance's directive not to disclose the contract e-mails to anyone? Is that not akin to suborning perjury? Also, wouldn't any communication between Hance, Meyers, and Sowell regarding the future of a university employee also be covered under the Sunshine Law? If the Three Stooges violated the law, they could be in a lot more trouble than just a contractual dispute. Violation of the Sunshine Law would open them up to an investigation that could find other misdeeds not related to Leach. Idiots.

Dont think it's so much subnorning perjury, but, under the Freedom of Information Act, that material is all discoverable. Also, under the electronic retention policies enforce in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (and to a lesser extent, the Texas equivalent), now that there is a reasonable expectation of litigation, all electronic and other communications, documents, emails and evidence has to be preserved.

If the Tres Amigos not only violated the Sunshine Law, but agreed to undertake those actions, you have possible criminal conspiracy actions as well as perhaps RICO implications.

If Pirate Mike decides to go balls out, scorched earth, this could get very, very ugly for sand aggy.

[MeMyself&Me]

If the Tres Amigos not only violated the Sunshine Law, but agreed to undertake those actions, you have possible criminal conspiracy actions as well as perhaps RICO implications.

If Pirate Mike decides to go balls out, scorched earth, this could get very, very ugly for sand aggy.

Well, that leads me to ask this, if it turns out to be a criminal matter, it's not Leach's decision whether to prosecute is it? Leach may not have to go balls out, scorched earth for this to get ugly for sand aggy.

[Scott D]

Well, Leach is pursuing it as a civil matter at least as I read it. The legality of things would reside with the state, and Leach would still be free to pursue the civil part of things. Either way, Tech stands a very strong chance of being ruined in more than one way.

[Blues1]

Leach needs to Hire all of OJ's attorneys -
and we all see the trial on TV -!!

"IF it don't fit ~ You need to give up the Money and we will Split" ~~~ :)

[Leroy Lizard]

Lid, you know texass law...how big of a violation of the Sunshine Law is Hance's directive not to disclose the contract e-mails to anyone?

I don't see how this is a violation. He isn't ordering the person to defy official inquiries, but just not to casually parade the email around to others.

If I tell someone, "Don't tell anyone this, but I stole a coat from Burlington's," I'm not telling that person to lie to authorities.


Dont think it's so much subnorning perjury, but, under the Freedom of Information Act, that material is all discoverable. Also, under the electronic retention policies enforce in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (and to a lesser extent, the Texas equivalent), now that there is a reasonable expectation of litigation, all electronic and other communications, documents, emails and evidence has to be preserved.

If the Tres Amigos not only violated the Sunshine Law, but agreed to undertake those actions, you have possible criminal conspiracy actions as well as perhaps RICO implications.

I don't see how anyone can prosecute them for violating sunshine laws. Erasing local copies of email off of one's personal computer doesn't destroy much of anything. If they had tried to get the IT administration to erase traces of email off the main server that would be different.

If they are criminally prosecuted for any of this, then the law in Lubbock must be truly bored.

[DenverSooner751]

I don't see how this is a violation. He isn't ordering the person to defy official inquiries, but just not to casually parade the email around to others.

If I tell someone, "Don't tell anyone this, but I stole a coat from Burlington's," I'm not telling that person to lie to authorities.



I don't see how anyone can prosecute them for violating sunshine laws. Erasing local copies of email off of one's personal computer doesn't destroy much of anything. If they had tried to get the IT administration to erase traces of email off the main server that would be different.

If they are criminally prosecuted for any of this, then the law in Lubbock must be truly bored.

How would this make Lubbock law bored? This is bigger than a vast majority of most anything to EVAR happen in Lubbock........sounds worthy to me!

[Leroy Lizard]

You got me there.

[prrriiide]

Well, Leach is pursuing it as a civil matter at least as I read it. The legality of things would reside with the state, and Leach would still be free to pursue the civil part of things. Either way, Tech stands a very strong chance of being ruined in more than one way.

True. However, any wrong-doing discovered in the investigation of a civil case may be turned over to the DA for use in criminal proceedings. I'm betting that there are some puckering arseholes in Lubbock and Dallas, and that some paper shredders are being burned up.

[ashley]

Leach is not going to get a head college job for a while.

[Wishboned]

Has anyone noticed that Craig James is like the kiss of death for football teams?

After he leaves SMU, they get the death penalty.

He leaves the Washington Federals of the USFL and the whole league folds.

He retires from New England and they end up having 5 consecutive losing seasons.

And now he's helped to drag Texas Tech into lower mediocrity.

Take a bow Craig.

[Leroy Lizard]

If a team loses after you leave, I'm not sure you can be blamed.

[Wishboned]

If a team loses after you leave, I'm not sure you can be blamed.

This is America. We'll find ways to blame anyone for anything.

[bluedogok]

Leach is not going to get a head college job for a while.
Unless something really wild comes out during legal proceedings he will be out for next season and someone will hire him after that, unless there is some sort of exclusion in a negotiated separation agreement where he is getting paid out yearly like many have done.

[sooneredaco]

^^I agree^^ aside from blaming him, I think he's a prick that spoils his little boy way too much. It's been well documented. Somewhere earlier in this massive post somebody mentioned that they doubted ESPIN wouldn't renew his contract after this season, it really looking that way to me. They are finally starting to get off of his jock in thier reporting.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well if Craig James leaves...ESPN will be closed down in 6 months. He is a destroyer of all things..

[Scott D]

damn instigator

[instigator]

Sorry. Uploaded from my phone and couldn't resize. :)

[Crucifax Autumn]

12 more posts and we're off giant-page!

[Petro-Sooner]

I had spaghetti for dinner. It was pretty good.

[bluedogok]

Here they are resized, maybe instigator can delete his?
http://bluedogok.com/espn.jpg
http://bluedogok.com/dark.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

ESPN is still running biased stories and finding anyone that will talk to take the tech-james side.

[sooner59]

I had Ghengis Grill for lunch. Good stuff.

[Blues1]

Bump....

[Crucifax Autumn]

I had Ghengis Grill for lunch. Good stuff.

I had leftover brisket.

[Wishboned]

Look kids...Big Ben...Parliament...

[Crucifax Autumn]

the OSU and Ole Miss bands were stuck in the 70s today with OSU playing Queen and Ole Miss playing Styx.

[guzziguy]

Happy to help get to 12.

[Frozen Sooner]

Or, you know, I could just delete the post with the screen-stretching photograph. :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

But our way was so much fun!

[sooneredaco]

Trainer Steve Pincock can't seem to make up his mind as to who he's supporting. This guy changes his mind more than Urban.

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=4790586&top

Doing this from a cell phone, hope the link works

[TUSooner]

YOu know he was getting heat, subtle or otherqwise, to change hgis story or at east cover his @ss.

Here's what everybody who love sports and especially college football should fear: A court deciding what constitutes proper disciplinary practices for football coaches. Leach's lawyers must establish a very deferential standard of review, while Tt's will argue for stricter scrutiny. Unless Leach's actions are reviewed for "deliberate indifference" or some similar deferntial review, coaches everywhere could be ****ed.

The more I hear from anyone, the more certain I am that Adam and Craig James are dog turds. And I wretch at ESPiN who can't stop trying to emphasize every scintilla of evidence that arguably suggests Leach is a monster.

[Crucifax Autumn]

They basically just took the whole Tech side on everything and said James was punished for "having a concussion".

Stupid dooshbag arseholes.

[TUSooner]

Mike Patrock just said Adam James "was punished for having a concussion. "
I guess there will be a little something extra in his pay next week
DISGUSTING.

[bluedogok]

Patrick is just towing the company line and I guess he misses his buddy who isn't in the booth tonight.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Don't these fockheads know the majority of people agree with Leach? And now they are saying stupid crap about LEach getting involved in the medical side of things. They are also implying that James was some kinda hard worker before the concussion. What idiots.

[delhalew]

They are rolling the propaganda machine hard.

[TMcGee86]

well its fairly obvious ESPN is going to spend the entire game demonizing Leach. They have yet to say anything even remotely unbiased or neutral.

[bluedogok]

There are some funny pics on the Facebook: Team Leach (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=233352393576) group

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs169.snc3/19661_1318137955541_1293531280_30936731_6430761_n. jpg

Evidently Tech fans have the banner flyer number as well

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs125.snc3/17270_1301599869643_1519847739_30785137_6917450_n. jpg

[Blues1]

Bob Davie --- Craig James's spokesman --- brothers in Spin...!!!

[Petro-Sooner]

Bob Davie --- Craig James's spokesman --- brothers in Spin...!!!


No ****! Bob asked random tech fans about it and he says they are passionate about football? I'm willing to bet they agreed with Mike. But he wont say that on air.

[TUSooner]

I suggest emailing TV and radio people at other networks urging them to get off their duffs and call out the "World Wide Monster" for its revolting bias.

[Crucifax Autumn]

These guys are making me want to puke.

[delhalew]

This is just incredible.

[Blues1]

Adam James enjoy your 15 minutes of Fame ~~~ !!!

[Crucifax Autumn]

No matter how much they want to spin things, this isn't the typical Tech offense. Leach has more of a knack for playcalling than this interior receivers coach guy.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I love how James is standing there in that stupid gay hat and not showing a hint of team spirit. Lucky him though. A nice guy named LEach gave him the chance no other coach in college football would.

[delhalew]

They are relentless with the Leach bashing. Who called that play? Seriously?

[Blues1]

Daddy James you're Son does a hellva of Job warming the Bench ~~ :)

[delhalew]

I love how James is standing there in that stupid gay hat and not showing a hint of team spirit. Lucky him though. A nice guy named LEach gave him the chance no other coach in college football would.

When I hear someone say "why didn't Leach just cut James". I bet you you Leach would say something about not wanting to give up on a kid, and building prima donna boys into responsible hard working men.

[bluedogok]

When I hear someone say "why didn't Leach just cut James". I bet you you Leach would say something about not wanting to give up on a kid, and building prima donna boys into responsible hard working men.
Yeah, but some are just lost causes...

[Crucifax Autumn]

Isn't making him a man his dad's job? That's not working out obviously!

[nmsoonergirl]

Isn't making him a man his dad's job? That's not working out obviously!


I'm no man, but I can tell you that my dad stopped fighting my battles for me when I was in first grade.

[delhalew]

Isn't making him a man his dad's job? That's not working out obviously!

Fathers don't do that anymore. You're showing your age.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Does this doosh announcer actually believe anyone would hire him as a coach? I guess if someone wanted a guy that kisses the boss's weiner on command they might...He's doing a great job now.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Fathers don't do that anymore. You're showing your age.

That says a lot for how fast society has declined into shat since at the spry young age of 40 I'm amazed by the lack of character in the world.

[delhalew]

Amen, I'm not 35 yet and I feel like the last man to have parents who cared enough to ensure I didn't turn out to be a total D-bag.

[bluedogok]

That says a lot for how fast society has declined into shat since at the spry young age of 40 I'm amazed by the lack of character in the world.
Yes it does....

[Crucifax Autumn]

The way parents are now I'm gonna have to forbid my son from having any friends.

[delhalew]

The way parents are now I'm gonna have to forbid my son from having any friends.

I seriously don't know what to do. I have a boy and girl. I feel like upon entering kindergarten they will surrounded by scumbags.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Wussies, A-holes, and my favorite, wussy A-holes.

[delhalew]

:D

[Crucifax Autumn]

What makes these gusy so sure Leach is watching this game?

[Petro-Sooner]

Bob........


STFU

[delhalew]

If he was...he turned it off pretty damn quickly.

[Leroy Lizard]

That says a lot for how fast society has declined into shat since at the spry young age of 40 I'm amazed by the lack of character in the world.

We can start by looking at the character involved in stealing other people's possessions.

[delhalew]

Oh **** me. Here we go again.

[OUinFLA]

be glad the game isnt a blowout of Florida proportions.
You do remember how the announcers passed the time during the second half?
Same score here and Leach would be all that is talked about.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Someone let Leroy out of the fuggin' electrical closet again.

[OUinFLA]

Lou & Mark..............or Frick and Frack, whichever you prefer....
of course TT is "ahead of the curve" in their yardage....

Mich St is playing without 16 of their regular players!

Im surprised Tech isn't ahead by 40 points.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm not.

[delhalew]

The fix is in.

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't want to dredge up the Cam Newton deal again (and I really don't), but let's not bemoan the lack of character in our kids unless we want to consider the whole package.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Then why did you mention it?

[Leroy Lizard]

Just wanted to point it out.

[Bud_Wilkinson]

Bob Davie is a dumba$$ and has been in every situation that has ever happened.
ESPN is trying to spin it. I have lost respect for Craig James and his son is a spoiled brat.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Just wanted to point it out.

Is it why Adam James is a lazy pussay?

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Wussies, A-holes, and my favorite, wussy A-holes.Mind-numbed, entitled, victimized, clueless-commie wussy-Aholes.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Mind-numbed, entitled, victimized, clueless-commie wussy-Aholes.

In diapers!

[badger]

I recommend you all check this video out before it gets taken off Youtube. NSFW:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XLTOYX6_1v4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Since it will get taken down soon, I can sense it, this is what it is --- NOT a parody - it's quite clearly Mike Leach and it is quite clearly Adam James during a Texas Tech practice... and he says:

Leach: I can't even stand to watch you f***ing stumble around... s***ty f***ing effort like you f***ing accomplished something.

[badger]

In case these haven't been posted a billion times yet:

Affidavit 1 (http://media.scout.com/Media/Doc/76/765864.pdf)

Affidavit 2 (http://media.scout.com/Media/Doc/76/765867.pdf)

These are off of Scout.com. I'm not a member, so I don't think you need to be to view.

NOT safe for work. They didn't omit the bad words like they did on ESPN... actually, I had no idea that those were the words being omitted when I read it on TV off ESPN an hour ago.

[OUinFLA]

exciting finish to the game

[badger]

Yeah, I am getting disinterested in who wins that game, so I'm trying to catch up here. Has this been posted yet?

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l5Q_5nYwWLU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l5Q_5nYwWLU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The above video shows the electrical closet and shed that Adam James was sent to.

[Hot Rod]

"James arrived for practice wearing street clothes, his cap on backwards, and sunglasses and began walking around the field in a very nonchalant way. He was not wearing the standard jersey and cleats or workout gear expected of all players during practice, including imjured players."

So, he must think he's above everyone else? I see why Leach talked the way he did to him and had him in that dark room. POS kid!

[Leroy Lizard]

Those affidavits are not going to help Leach's cause.

[Widescreen]

Those affidavits are not going to help Leach's cause.

If so, I'm sure you and the Tech administration will be thrilled

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm not on the side of the Tech administration. In fact, I think they are to blame more than anyone for this fiasco.

[sooner59]

Does anybody remember when football coaches did crap way worse than this and nobody ever cared? The only thing that Leach hurt of Adam was his feelings. That is how coaching used to be. Back in the day, if you had a problem with a kid, you got inside his head, broke him down, then built him back up.

Nowadays, if you look sideways at a player in college, they start crying to mommy, daddy, and the media about how you were mistreated. I had coaches in high school grab me by the facemask and sling me around screaming in my face. And I still respected the hell out of them, because they wanted to make me better so the team would be better so that we could win. And I damn sure wanted to win. And at the end of the day, they would pat you on the back and tell you good job if you stepped it up. If you acted like a prima donna, they told you to get the hell off their field.

This is why I can't stand people like Adam or Craig James. Adam is the type that threatens his parents when is young, saying: "If you spank me, I'll call DHS and have them take me away." And Craig is the type to give in and pamper his ***. I tried that once when I was around 6 or 7 years old. My dad beat my *** and handed me the phone. And I thank God that he did. It made me man up and quit being a *ussy.

What Leach did was a little weird, but its safe to say, the James family is a poison to society, and the Tech administration was out for him anyway. He is still a good coach that I would hire him right now if I had a team in need of a coach.

Hopefully Tech will get what is coming to them.....unfortunately for their fans and alumni. And hopefully someone will kick the s*** out of Craig and Adam James, then hand them a phone and tell them to call somebody who gives a s***.

Just my two cents.

[Crucifax Autumn]

If you consider the entirety of the evidence so far, Leach was in the right. Not really sure if it gives him any legal recourse, but even the affidavits don't show anything I don't fully expect from a coach trying to keep kids this age working hard and growing up.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Also...Leach is a lawyer and pretty smart. I seriously doubt he'd do anything that would put him at a truly legal disadvantage.

[Pricetag]

I had to wonder why ESPN mentioned that the orders to the trainer to put him in the shed were "profanity laden." What, if he hadn't cussed, it would have been okay? They are obviously trying to cast Mike Leach in the most negative light possible.

These affadavits are an effort by the administration to cover their asses, and testimony of trainers and doctors trying to cover their own.

[Leroy Lizard]

If you consider the entirety of the evidence so far, Leach was in the right. Not really sure if it gives him any legal recourse, but even the affidavits don't show anything I don't fully expect from a coach trying to keep kids this age working hard and growing up.

What evidence? I have only seen two pieces of evidence that really matter: the sworn affidavits. Neither are going to help Leach.


Does anybody remember when football coaches did crap way worse than this and nobody ever cared?

That line of defense isn't going to get you very far in court. Things used to be that way but are no longer because people started changing their views on how players should be treated.

Now, I am not saying Adam was abused. But just because players were in the past doesn't make it acceptable today.


The only thing that Leach hurt of Adam was his feelings. That is how coaching used to be. Back in the day, if you had a problem with a kid, you got inside his head, broke him down, then built him back up.

If these kids were in the military, that would be more defensible. Getting inside a player's head and breaking him down is really not acceptable when dealing with STUDENT-athletes.


Nowadays, if you look sideways at a player in college, they start crying to mommy, daddy, and the media about how you were mistreated.

Players cry about mistreatment all the time. I have students that I'm sure go home and complain about the grade they receive, and such. No one can take away your right to bitch.

The problem is that (1) the James family took up Adam's torch (which I argued was a bad thing in here, to everyone's horror) and (2) the Tech administration allowed the James family to intervene.

I don't think this is all Adam's fault. He cried and bitched to his parents like hundreds of other players out there. The problem was that his parents are not the average parents.

And Leach is not necessarily faultless here. The team doctor stated that Leach's punishment did not fit within professional guidelines. If you remember, I told everyone in here that coach's need to stay away from unusual punishments, and this is exactly why.


I had coaches in high school grab me by the facemask and sling me around screaming in my face. And I still respected the hell out of them, because they wanted to make me better so the team would be better so that we could win.

Adam is not a minor. He is an adult college student. The standards change when dealing with adults.


And I damn sure wanted to win. And at the end of the day, they would pat you on the back and tell you good job if you stepped it up. If you acted like a prima donna, they told you to get the hell off their field.

And IMO, that is what Leach should have done instead.

Placing Adam in a dark room and forcing him to stand was not going to make him a better football player. Such unusual punishments come across as vindictive, and this is going to cause Leach some problems.


This is why I can't stand people like Adam or Craig James. Adam is the type that threatens his parents when is young, saying: "If you spank me, I'll call DHS and have them take me away." And Craig is the type to give in and pamper his ***.

You are making some real leaps here. We really don't know that. Adam is probably a little spoiled and sheltered but let's not get carried away.


What Leach did was a little weird...

Hence the problem. Coaching is supposed to be a profession, which means you employ the prescribed remedy when facing certain situations. Too many coaches try to get creative

And the same goes for professors. Too many of my colleagues (especially in the liberal arts) take pride in their unusual ways of handling problems. It is unprofessional. When faced with a situation that is completely bizarre, you need to confer with your superiors to find the best solution.

I will say this: If Leach, Adam, the James family, and the Tech administration had handled all this professionally, this would not be an issue.


I would hire him right now if I had a team in need of a coach.

I would make damn sure he reads the faculty code of conduct manual and signs it.

[Crucifax Autumn]

What evidence?

The cell phone video, the footage of the actual locations, the videos of James slacking, the administration e-mails, the flip-flopping statements, the fact that no one else wanted the kid but Leach gave him a shot, and yes, even the supposedly "damning" affidavits.

In it's entirety, I feel that it's obviously a witch hunt and that Leach was perfectly justified in ragging the dumb kid. It's also rather obvious that the AD was flat out looking for any excuse to can Leach but couldn't justify saying "you are fired because I don't like you after winning the contract battle and making me look like a total dick".

[Pricetag]

Regarding the sworn affidavits, what exactly do they mean, legally? We're not talking about a criminal trial here, so there's no chance that the folks who have given them could face charges, correct? What kind of penalty would they risk were they not entirely truthful?

[Leroy Lizard]

What evidence?

The cell phone video, the footage of the actual locations, the videos of James slacking, the administration e-mails, the flip-flopping statements, the fact that no one else wanted the kid but Leach gave him a shot, and yes, even the supposedly "damning" affidavits.

Whether James is a slacker is not the issue. I think even James will admit to that. The issue here is whether James' punishment went beyond professional bounds.

So throw most of this "evidence" out, as it isn't pertinent. James may be the most vile, evil, Satanic entity on earth, but it's irrelevant as far as the Tech administration (and later the courts) are concerned.


It's also rather obvious that the AD was flat out looking for any excuse to can Leach but couldn't justify saying "you are fired because I don't like you after winning the contract battle and making me look like a total dick".

I think that may be true.

[Leroy Lizard]

Regarding the sworn affidavits, what exactly do they mean, legally? We're not talking about a criminal trial here, so there's no chance that the folks who have given them could face charges, correct? What kind of penalty would they risk were they not entirely truthful?

I think the penalty perjury still applies. Lid?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Whether James is a slacker is not the issue. I think even James will admit to that. The issue here is whether James' punishment went beyond professional bounds.

So throw most of this "evidence" out, as it isn't pertinent. James may be the most vile, evil, Satanic entity on earth, but it's irrelevant as far as the Tech administration (and later the courts) are concerned.


You must remember: I specifically said I didn't know what the legal implications would be, only that the evidence out there suggested that LEach was right in all this and James and Tech were wrong. I was speaking merely in a "what's right is right" manner. Regardless of any legal shennanigans and posturing, it is my opinion that both the James' and the university have shown a total lack of character, testicles, and common sense to a degree that far outwighs any possible wrondoing by Leach, most of which is total heresay anyway, while the actions of the other parties have been made abundantly clear.

[instigator]

Here they are resized, maybe instigator can delete his?
http://bluedogok.com/espn.jpg
http://bluedogok.com/dark.jpg

Thanks! Looks like a mod deleted my post.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I think the penalty perjury still applies. Lid?

I think it depend on who they gave these affadavits to. If the court or any law enforcement were present then it's perjury. If not, then it's not.

There are some mitigating factors I suppose. Was there a notary public present for example? I believe that would amount to some sort of perjury.

Either way, if the statements were damaging and presented as fact rather than opinion and proven untrue, then Some of these "witnesses" could be found guilty of libel or slander in a civil court.

All you lawyers can correct me if you wish...Even Lid, though I'd prefer a decent and moral Okie! :P

[Crucifax Autumn]

Thanks! Looks like a mod deleted my post.

He was just being a smartazz about us all being smartazzes! :D

[Leroy Lizard]

You must remember: I specifically said I didn't know what the legal implications would be, only that the evidence out there suggested that LEach was right in all this and James and Tech were wrong. I was speaking merely in a "what's right is right" manner. Regardless of any legal shennanigans and posturing, it is my opinion that both the James' and the university have shown a total lack of character, testicles, and common sense to a degree that far outwighs any possible wrondoing by Leach, most of which is total heresay anyway, while the actions of the other parties have been made abundantly clear.

The comments in the sworn affidavits are not hearsay. In fact, they represent the strongest evidence offered so far in this mess, simply because they are sworn affidavits.

I simply don't think that anything Adam has done is worth all the hatred being tossed his way. He bitched to his parents. So what? If the rest of the grownups (including Leach) had acted properly, nothing comes of it.

At least, that is how I view it.

[Leroy Lizard]

An affidavit is a formal sworn statement of fact, signed by the author, who is called the affiant or deponent, and witnessed as to the authenticity of the affiant's signature by a taker of oaths, such as a notary public or commissioner of oaths. The name is Medieval Latin for he has declared upon oath. An affidavit is a type of verified statement or showing, or in other words, it contains a verification, meaning it is under oath or penalty of perjury, and this serves as evidence to its veracity and is required for court proceedings.

From Wiki:


An affidavit is a formal sworn statement of fact, signed by the author, who is called the affiant or deponent, and witnessed as to the authenticity of the affiant's signature by a taker of oaths, such as a notary public or commissioner of oaths. The name is Medieval Latin for he has declared upon oath. An affidavit is a type of verified statement or showing, or in other words, it contains a verification, meaning it is under oath or penalty of perjury, and this serves as evidence to its veracity and is required for court proceedings.

[Crucifax Autumn]

So in other words, my legalese was pretty close! lol

As for the affidavits being the strongest evidence presented, I'd have to say video I saw with my own eyes outweighs them regardless of their legality. Again: I said specifically that I was referring to who is "right", not who holds the cards in a legal sense, though I DO feel that is still in the air.

[Crucifax Autumn]

And yeah...the grownups should have been grownups, but in today's society the grownups are generally the biggest babies out there and the kids are only slightly better and even then, I probably only see it that way because I EXPECT less from dumb kids.

[sooner59]

What evidence? I have only seen two pieces of evidence that really matter: the sworn affidavits. Neither are going to help Leach.



That line of defense isn't going to get you very far in court. Things used to be that way but are no longer because people started changing their views on how players should be treated.

I didn't say anything about court. I was just recalling better days, IMO.

Now, I am not saying Adam was abused. But just because players were in the past doesn't make it acceptable today.

People use "abuse" so loosely today, that if you put a kid in timeout, which is basically what happened to Adam, someone will say its mental abuse or something.

If these kids were in the military, that would be more defensible. Getting inside a player's head and breaking him down is really not acceptable when dealing with STUDENT-athletes.

In your opinion. I WAS a student athlete and I found it completely acceptable. The kids that didn't either didn't graduate my high school, ended up in prison, or are working for minimum wage now because they felt they were always right and deserved given something. In the long run, it helps some people in life, not just sports.

Players cry about mistreatment all the time. I have students that I'm sure go home and complain about the grade they receive, and such. No one can take away your right to bitch.

You are correct. He had every right to bitch....still doesn't mean he is worth the space he is taking up. He has the opportunity to prove to himself and those around him that this won't define his life, though. And I honestly hope he does and makes something of himself so one day, he isn't as big a *ussy as he seems to be now.

The problem is that (1) the James family took up Adam's torch (which I argued was a bad thing in here, to everyone's horror) and (2) the Tech administration allowed the James family to intervene.

I don't think this is all Adam's fault. He cried and bitched to his parents like hundreds of other players out there. The problem was that his parents are not the average parents.

I damn sure agree with that.

And Leach is not necessarily faultless here. The team doctor stated that Leach's punishment did not fit within professional guidelines. If you remember, I told everyone in here that coach's need to stay away from unusual punishments, and this is exactly why.

Sounds like the doctor is questioning methods outside his realm of expertise. Not that he is wrong, either way. He instructed Adam to stay away from sunlight. That's what happened......although in an odd way. And yes, that IS Leach's fault for not being normal, lol. And I would never accuse Leach of being normal. But who is a doctor to question punishment techniques when his own guidelines are followed anyway? He wasn't put in danger. So I just don't really care how the doctor feels about a "punishment" that obeys his guideline and puts him in no additional harm.

Adam is not a minor. He is an adult college student. The standards change when dealing with adults.

So I am reading this as: Its ok to do it to a minor, but you have to go easier on adults. Am I not reading this right? Because if that is the case, then the standards have become ridiculously pansy-a**. And it is a travesty to college football, and probably the reason "star" athletes feel they can get away with anything these days.

And IMO, that is what Leach should have done instead.

Placing Adam in a dark room and forcing him to stand was not going to make him a better football player. Such unusual punishments come across as vindictive, and this is going to cause Leach some problems.


I can't argue with you here. But nothing allowed by the doctor was going to make him a better football player at those times. The punishment was for violating team rules by wearing no Tech gear, sunglasses, and a backward hat with street clothes to practice (all team rules violations according to what has been said). If you don't want to be embarrassed, don't give the coach a reason to embarrass you and it won't happen.:eek:

You are making some real leaps here. We really don't know that. Adam is probably a little spoiled and sheltered but let's not get carried away.

Again, you are correct. We don't know this. But I have been around enough of them to realize the type of spoiled rich kid who always gets his way that Adam seems to be. I could be wrong, but he sure hasn't given anyone reason to believe otherwise. And I have the right to call him that whether he is or isn't. If he doesn't like it, he can contact me directly.

Hence the problem. Coaching is supposed to be a profession, which means you employ the prescribed remedy when facing certain situations. Too many coaches try to get creative.

I hate it when coaches are creative. :rolleyes:

And the same goes for professors. Too many of my colleagues (especially in the liberal arts) take pride in their unusual ways of handling problems. It is unprofessional. When faced with a situation that is completely bizarre, you need to confer with your superiors to find the best solution.

Probably, can't argue. I came across that situation a few times as an undergrad at OU. But I'm not calling for the jobs of every prick that pissed me off. I didn't whine every time I didn't get the grade I wanted. I took what I got and it never held me back from my goals. If I did whine, I would have to take myself out back and kick my own a** for being a little b**** about it.

I will say this: If Leach, Adam, the James family, and the Tech administration had handled all this professionally, this would not be an issue.

True.

I would make damn sure he reads the faculty code of conduct manual and signs it.

Yep, he would need to assure me that he will keep his antics a tad lighter than in the past, and make sure you don't get yourself or the university in legal problems.

[Leroy Lizard]

As for the affidavits being the strongest evidence presented, I'd have to say video I saw with my own eyes outweighs them regardless of their legality. Again: I said specifically that I was referring to who is "right", not who holds the cards in a legal sense, though I DO feel that is still in the air.

I'm not sure what the video that Adam took proves.


And yeah...the grownups should have been grownups, but in today's society the grownups are generally the biggest babies out there and the kids are only slightly better and even then, I probably only see it that way because I EXPECT less from dumb kids.

But you seem to heap far more hatred on the kid in this case than the grownups.

Adam is an adult, by the way, but he is not bound by a code of conduct that is pertinent here. Leach and the Tech administration are, and their screwups are, to me, more important.

Neither Leach nor the Tech administration acted professionally, in my opinion. The fact that this case blew up has more to do with their own personal issues, not Adam James. And while the James family should not have intervened, there is nothing to say that they cannot.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yet you yourself have stated on multiple occasions that they handled it in the wrong way. And trust me, I have more disrespect for the administration than for some dumb kid and his flaccid and stupid father. As for Leach's behavior, in my opinion any coach that doesn't ride the team hard is gonna have success on the level of Baylor (if that) and the players will have no future as anything more respectable than convenience store clerk on the graveyard shift.

Another thing is this: Craig James is a full fledged adult and even if the kid still has learning to do his dad should have at least the beginning of adult thought and personal accountability and instead of coddling his diaper wearing thumbsucking kid he should be teaching him some life lessons or at least leaving him out there to learn on his own.

[sooner59]

I know it seems like I "hate" Adam James as a person, but I more hate his attitude and sense of self entitlement, not him as a person. I will just say that he "seems to me" like a big ole *ussy. And if that is the case, from listening to his father on TV, he probably learned from the best.

Leach didn't screw up monumentally this time. It has been a collection over the last decade that has pissed in Tech's morning cereal. They became really pissed off last year with Leach talking to other schools and wanting a new contract.

Tech was looking for any reason to fire him and they jumped on the James thing. So if you want to say Leach brought all of it on himself, then maybe you are right. But it doesn't make Tech look any better in a prospective coach's eyes. Art Briles already took his name out of the hat, and I can't see why Baylor would be a better job than Tech, other than he like his bosses and wanted no part of what Tech has become administration-wise.

The whole thing is screwed up and like several articles have said: Nobody wins. Not Leach, not Tech, not James, not Tech fans/alumni, and not prospective coaches looking for a decent job.

I threw in my two cents because that was the way I felt, not the way society or LL thinks it should be. Most people comment on their opinion on here, but I forgot that is frowned upon. Sorry guys......SORRY GUYS!!! :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

You can have it 59. I'm tired of battling Leroy only to have him throw 800 arguments at me to try to contest what I, and most people, think is "right". I'm gonna watch a movie. A fictional movie. In other words, it will consist of more facts than anything ESPN had to say today.

[sooner59]

You can have it 59. I'm tired of battling Leroy only to have him throw 800 arguments at me to try to contest what I, and most people, think is "right". I'm gonna watch a movie. A fictional movie. In other words, it will consist of more facts than anything ESPN had to say today.

LOL, agreed. BASEketball was more real than ESPN lately. Me...I'm hitting the sack. I'm done on this thread anyway unless some real breaking news comes out, but I doubt that will be until after the court battle. I don't have the time to defend everything I say on here. I post too damn much to do that. Enjoy the movie Crux.

[Leroy Lizard]

People use "abuse" so loosely today, that if you put a kid in timeout, which is basically what happened to Adam, someone will say its mental abuse or something.

Suppose I was a boss and did this to an employee. I'm fired and my employer is getting sued. And it's not even close.

I certainly would do nothing like that to one of my students, no matter how much they slacked. What would that tell everyone else how I respect students?

The problem is that (1) the James family took up Adam's torch (which I argued was a bad thing in here, to everyone's horror) and (2) the Tech administration allowed the James family to intervene.


>>I don't think this is all Adam's fault. He cried and bitched to his parents like hundreds of other players out there. The problem was that his parents are not the average parents.

I damn sure agree with that.

But why are they not the average parents? Because Leach and/or the administration let them be unaverage.

If this kid was not D-1 material, Leach should not have recruited him. And the Tech administration should not have given them any more leeway than other parents.

We have had numerous instances here where posters crowed about how "boosters write the checks" and "faculty had better take their opinions into account because they write the checks." And this is what you get when you kow-tow to that mentality.


So I am reading this as: Its ok to do it to a minor, but you have to go easier on adults. Am I not reading this right?

No. I am saying that comparing the way in which coaches treat players in high school to college is problematic. College students are adults, and there is a different code of conduct that applies. That doesn't mean you can wheel out the rack to deal with high school players.


Because if that is the case, then the standards have become ridiculously pansy-a**. And it is a travesty to college football, and probably the reason "star" athletes feel they can get away with anything these days.

Yet we tend to look the other way when they get in criminal trouble (which to me is far more important).

We love to give players second chances when they run afoul of the law. How many times have you heard it said in here, "They're just kids"? And "They deserve a second chance." That attitude has far more to do with the degeneration of our youth than anything involved in the James situation.

Blount blindsides a player with a fist, then turns on his own teammate. It takes five minutes to control him, and yet here he is playing in a bowl game the very same year. And getting cheered as a hero.

While at the same time, the entire sporting nation turns on Adam James for merely complaining about being mistreated by a coach. Why aren't we saying that he's "just a kid" and "deserves a second chance"?


If you don't want to be embarrassed, don't give the coach a reason to embarrass you and it won't happen.

That goes without saying. "If you don't want to get shot, don't jaywalk."

Leach had a situation where a player showed up and displayed a poor attitude. If the comments in the affidavit are correct, Leach handled the situation badly. And so he should have manned up and apologized.

Now, if Leach had used a punishment that the coaching profession considered acceptable, then he would have had a much firmer ground to stand on when refusing to apologize.


And I have the right to call him that whether he is or isn't. If he doesn't like it, he can contact me directly.

Sorry, but that isn't a very rational argument.


Probably, can't argue. I came across that situation a few times as an undergrad at OU. But I'm not calling for the jobs of every prick that pissed me off.

But Adam didn't do that from what I can tell. I don't even think the James family did. I would bet that Craig James felt that an apology from the coach would be all that was needed, and then the personality conflicts between Leach and the Tech administration took over from there.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yet you yourself have stated on multiple occasions that they handled it in the wrong way. And trust me, I have more disrespect for the administration than for some dumb kid and his flaccid and stupid father.

I would tend to believe you more if you had inserted insults at the Tech administration like you have Adam.

You have called Adam and his father every name imaginable. Below you call him a daiper-wearing thumbsucker, but I don't see this level of vitriol from you about the Tech administration. So how can you claim more disrespect for the Tech administration?


As for Leach's behavior, in my opinion any coach that doesn't ride the team hard is gonna have success on the level of Baylor (if that) and the players will have no future as anything more respectable than convenience store clerk on the graveyard shift.

I cannot imagine Stoops or PC or Paterno doing this. At least, I haven't heard anything like this from them.

We did have SmellsOfBourbon do some strange punishments that he felt were the perfect old-school way of doing things. How did that work out?

[Leroy Lizard]

BTW, be prepared to be truly ****ed off at this version by the Christian Science Monitor. Note the subheadline.


Mike Leach, the most successful coach in Texas Tech football history, was fired Wednesday after being accused of punishing receiver Adam James for not playing through a concussion.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2009/1230/Mike-Leach-fired-Texas-Tech-coach-s-methods-seen-as-cruel

Here is an interesting blurb:


When Leach filed a lawsuit trying to overturn the suspension so he could coach in Saturday's Alamo Bowl, the school fired him.

Whoa! If true, that changes everything.

[OUHOMER]

http://saveleach.com/

[Pricetag]

But why are they not the average parents? Because Leach and/or the administration let them be unaverage.
Wrong. Craig James had the power to talk. Neither Leach nor the administration could have done anything to stop it. The administration simply chose to have the **** fall on Leach instead of them.

If Craig James had a shred of integrity as a journalist, he never would have spoken through that channel. It was a tremendous conflict of interest that anyone can see.

[Leroy Lizard]

Craig James had the power to talk. Neither Leach nor the administration could have done anything to stop it. The administration simply chose to have the **** fall on Leach instead of them.

I think we're talking about two different things. I am talking about the administration allowing Craig to complain on behalf of his son. Yes, Craig James is an ESPN announcer, but you have to play it straight. They should have told him to have his son come into the athletic department and complain. If they had, I don't think any of this would have happened.


If Craig James had a shred of integrity as a journalist, he never would have spoken through that channel. It was a tremendous conflict of interest that anyone can see.

Are we sure that even happened?

[Sooner Eclipse]

They should have told him to have his son come into the athletic department and complain. If they had, I don't think any of this would have happened.

If they had done that, they would have had CJ thowing backhanded, subtle, neg-bombs at Leach and the admins all last night. He was scheduled to be a part of the Alamo Bowl broadcast team. And given what we know about his character, he would have used the opportunity to undermine the staff and school.

[Leroy Lizard]

If they had done that, they would have had CJ thowing backhanded, subtle, neg-bombs at Leach and the admins all last night.

Yeah, it really looks like Texas Tech avoided negative publicity. Great call.

[Sooner Eclipse]

Yeah, it really looks like Texas Tech avoided negative publicity. Great call.

I didnt hear anything negative about the school. I heard the Espin hacks attacking ML and I heard them call CJ and the admins "courageous". The fans were expressing their ire at all of it. Almost none of that was shown because it was mostly pro-ML and anti CJ, ESpin and TT admins.

[Explodo]

You know...this thing with the Affidavits...We already know they asked Leach to sign one of those knowing full well they would be forcing Leach to lie.

Who actually trusts the trainer statement given the prior propensity for this administration to coheres a person to lie.


You see LL, that's why lying on a apology will bite you in the ***. It destroys any credibility the administration had(not that there was much)

[Leroy Lizard]

The fans were expressing their ire at all of it.

Those are the ones that buy season tickets. And what about potential recruits? I already know of a few that are reconsidering. Tech has not escaped unscathed in this by a long shot.

Just having your coach accused of mistreating players is not good for your image.

Seriously, what could CJ have really said during the broadcast that would have any real affect on Tech's image? "Waaaah, they won't play my son"? "Waaaah, I don't like Leach"?

[Leroy Lizard]

You know...this thing with the Affidavits...We already know they asked Leach to sign one of those knowing full well they would be forcing Leach to lie.

Well, you can't force someone to lie.


Who actually trusts the trainer statement given the prior propensity for this administration to coheres a person to lie.

It's their sworn affidavit. It's their testimony. It could be a lie, but that's always the case.


You see LL, that's why lying on a apology will bite you in the ***. It destroys any credibility the administration had(not that there was much)

Go back to my example. I wasn't asking Leach to lie about events in his apology. You concede what happened, admit that on reflection it may have had an unintended effect, and you apologize for having done it. You don't lie about what happened. These are always carefully phrased and it is understood by all parties that an apology settles the issue. It's done all the time.

[Explodo]

They were forcing leach to lie...I have no faith the affidavits weren't forced. Bottom line.

[bluedogok]

And Leach is not necessarily faultless here. The team doctor stated that Leach's punishment did not fit within professional guidelines. If you remember, I told everyone in here that coach's need to stay away from unusual punishments, and this is exactly why.
In prior statements the doctor also stated that nothing Leach or the other coaches did not harm him. It seems that in other statements the doctor and/or trainer stated that Adam was not instructed to "stay out of the light" but I seem to remember he told Leach that he was supposed to. It seems that if you are trying to avoid light with sunglasses and a hat, you would at least have the hat in the proper position for the bill of it to be able to provide shade instead of wearing it backwards. Everything the kid seems to have done was done in his disdain of authority, he doesn't feel like he needs to follow the rules...much like his father, they feel like they are above following rules.

I still don't understand why the Tech administration just didn't renew his contract last season if they didn't want him, except I guess they felt they couldn't effectively fire the guy who had just given them the highest level of success the program had ever achieved. It really comes down to the fact that the Chancellor, AD and big money donor(s) want someone they can control, even if it comes to the expense of winning. The Lubbock Mob is so used to controlling everything out there they just can't stand it if someone doesn't submit to them.


If Craig James had a shred of integrity as a journalist, he never would have spoken through that channel. It was a tremendous conflict of interest that anyone can see.Craig James is not a journalist, he is an ex football player who is paid to express opinions as an analyst. I think there are very few "journalists" left at ESPN.


Well, you can't force someone to lie.
You can threaten them with loss of position and that could in effect cause them to change their story, out there the Lubbock Mob could easily ruin someone as a professional. Lubbock is really a small town when it comes to that mentality as you have a few big fish in a small pond who run things out there.


You can have it 59. I'm tired of battling Leroy only to have him throw 800 arguments at me to try to contest what I, and most people, think is "right". I'm gonna watch a movie. A fictional movie. In other words, it will consist of more facts than anything ESPN had to say today.
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs193.snc3/20067_1216894980268_1165663986_30562914_1747740_n. jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

If the Lubbock mob is trying to control Leach, what exactly is it that they want him to do that he won't?

[Explodo]

Kiss their ***? The same thing all Very Wealthy Donor types in that part of the country want. The little Napoleon's are ruthless in their desire to be able to make people do their bidding. For Pete's sake man, if you've lived in Any part of Oklahoma or texas you've witnessed or experienced this type of group.

[Scott D]

BTW, be prepared to be truly ****ed off at this version by the Christian Science Monitor. Note the subheadline.



http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2009/1230/Mike-Leach-fired-Texas-Tech-coach-s-methods-seen-as-cruel

Here is an interesting blurb:



Whoa! If true, that changes everything.

The Chancellor intimated that they fired Leach for his getting an injunction.

[bluedogok]

LL - I am sure you have had to deal with administrators and other professors who constantly need their egos stroked and their rears smooched like Explodo stated. They don't like it when someone dare challenges their authority either granted or implied. The email trail pretty much laid that out, it is also something that quite a few Tech alums that I know (including my wife) who have spent time in Lubbock both academically and professionally have stated. There is a small, core group of people that run things in that town and pretty much buy favor with the university and if you want to get anything done there, you have to stroke those people which is not unlike any smaller town and even most bigger cities. If someone dare challenges them, they get vengeful, that is much of what I am seeing in this situation. This whole situation is nothing more than a power struggle and the James family is merely the tool used.

When they hired Leach, they wanted a chance to win, but they also probably felt that by giving an assistant coach a head coaching job that he would feel "indebted" to them and therefore they could control him. When Leach started winning and getting more attention, the powers that be who felt that they were the reason for winning got jealous and when he asked for more money or looked at other jobs it pissed them off. Right now I think it shows the administration and at least one money donor care more about control than winning.

[Collier11]

^ Only his own ego

[Leroy Lizard]

I am sure you have had to deal with administrators and other professors who constantly need their egos stroked and their rears smooched like Explodo stated. They don't like it when someone dare challenges their authority either granted or implied. The email trail pretty much laid that out, it is also something that quite a few Tech alums that I know (including my wife) who have spent time in Lubbock both academically and professionally have stated. There is a small, core group of people that run things in that town and pretty much buy favor with the university and if you want to get anything done there, you have to stroke those people which is not unlike any smaller town and even most bigger cities. If someone dare challenges them, they get vengeful, that is much of what I am seeing in this situation. This whole situation is nothing more than a power struggle and the James family is merely the tool used.

Administrators that want their ego stroked...hmmm... Well, they certainly don't like to be criticized in public. And I am sure that they want me to say nice things about them when talking to others. Other than that, I can't see anything that I have ever needed to do to stroke their ego.

What were these Tech administrators wanting Leach to do? Mow their lawns?

And here is a question that I think cuts to the core of this problem: Why is it that all the other coaches out there have been able to stroke their administrators' egos but not Leach?

[sooner59]

I think we're talking about two different things. I am talking about the administration allowing Craig to complain on behalf of his son. Yes, Craig James is an ESPN announcer, but you have to play it straight. They should have told him to have his son come into the athletic department and complain. If they had, I don't think any of this would have happened.



Are we sure that even happened?

Just FYI, Craig James had his own little segment on ESPN after this came out early in the week where he gave his side of the story and how he felt about it. He said he wants Texas Tech to "do the right thing" multiple times. This was BEFORE Leach was fired....either the night before or the previous night. I was watching ESPN when it came on. Either the next morning or the one after that, Leach was fired.

I believe that is what most people on here are referring to when complaining about Craig James using ESPN to further his agenda. At least that I what I got out of it.

And you might as well not break down everything I just said and disagree with it, because everything in the first paragraph is factual information and I feel no need to defend it. The rest is me guessing what people are referring to. At no point did I offer an opinion....so LL, the "Mike Leach Thread Czar" doesn't need to worry about it.

[Leroy Lizard]

What did Craig say was the "right thing" he wanted done?

I don't see how that constitutes Craig James getting Leach fired. To me, it looks like Leach could have retained his job if he really wanted, regardless of what Craig James had to say. And this appears to be far more related to the Tech administration's prior problems with Leach.

[StoopTroup]

And here is a question that I think cuts to the core of this problem: Why is it that all the other coaches out there have been able to stroke their administrators' egos but not Leach?

By all you mean Kansas and Washington too? What about Louisville? Notre Dame?

Would you say that Joe Castiglione is getting his ego stroked by Bob's attitude towards the media? How many calls do you think Bob would have taken from Craig about his Son?

[AlbqSooner]

When I hear someone say "why didn't Leach just cut James". I bet you you Leach would say something about not wanting to give up on a kid, and building prima donna boys into responsible hard working men.

Nahhh Leach would say, "I really wanted to cut him, but I was afraid that if I did, his daddy and ESPN would destroy Tech football.":D

[bluedogok]

Administrators that want their ego stroked...hmmm... Well, they certainly don't like to be criticized in public. And I am sure that they want me to say nice things about them when talking to others. Other than that, I can't see anything that I have ever needed to do to stroke their ego.

What were these Tech administrators wanting Leach to do? Mow their lawns?

And here is a question that I think cuts to the core of this problem: Why is it that all the other coaches out there have been able to stroke their administrators' egos but not Leach?
For the most part they have had West Texas good ole boys as coaches and never had much success, most were high school coaches prior to coming to Tech. One who wasn't was David McWilliams who was the DC at UT and was hired by Tech in 1986, UT hired him the following year and Tech went back to their pattern of hiring guys who would be "loyal" to them like Spike Dykes who was the Tech DC at the time and was the Midland Lee H.S. coach before that. You know they were paying him a glorified high school coaches salary, so I think the combination of salary and loyalty are what irks Sowell, Myers and Hance. Myers has been at Tech for about 50 years as a player, coach or administrator, Sowell was Tech graduate and the former head of the board of regents and Hance got his bachelor's from Tech, so they are "lifers" loyal to Tech in an era when loyalty is no longer that important to most. It is just a different era and they don't seem to like so it will be interesting who they hire, if it is Ruffin then they seem to be going back to who they think will be loyal to them for he is not a hot assistant that everyone is looking at.

I think Leach's job shopping and money demands (which is how the business is nowadays) are what doomed him and the fact that he isn't a "Yes Man" to the administration and big donors did him in. Which is ironic because Bob Knight could never be confused as being a yes man, like someone else stated, the difference was Myers liked Knight.

Could Leach have handled it better, yeah but I think he was going to be gone because he wasn't perceived as loyal that the old guard in Lubbock.

[prrriiide]

Isn't making him a man his dad's job?

How can the father teach the son that which the father has no knowledge?

[Leroy Lizard]

By all you mean Kansas and Washington too? What about Louisville? Notre Dame?

Not kissing *** was the problem at those places? Weis lost his job because he didn't kiss enough ***?

Oh, c'mon! You have to win. Leach certainly did that. They didn't.

[bluedogok]

How can the father teach the son that which the father has no knowledge?
Actually, in this case I think the father raised his son in his image.....

[ashley]

For the most part they have had West Texas good ole boys as coaches and never had much success, most were high school coaches prior to coming to Tech. One who wasn't was David McWilliams who was the DC at UT and was hired by Tech in 1986, UT hired him the following year and Tech went back to their pattern of hiring guys who would be "loyal" to them like Spike Dykes who was the Tech DC at the time and was the Midland Lee H.S. coach before that. You know they were paying him a glorified high school coaches salary, so I think the combination of salary and loyalty are what irks Sowell, Myers and Hance. Myers has been at Tech for about 50 years as a player, coach or administrator, Sowell was Tech graduate and the former head of the board of regents and Hance got his bachelor's from Tech, so they are "lifers" loyal to Tech in an era when loyalty is no longer that important to most. It is just a different era and they don't seem to like so it will be interesting who they hire, if it is Ruffin then they seem to be going back to who they think will be loyal to them for he is not a hot assistant that everyone is looking at.

I think Leach's job shopping and money demands (which is how the business is nowadays) are what doomed him and the fact that he isn't a "Yes Man" to the administration and big donors did him in. Which is ironic because Bob Knight could never be confused as being a yes man, like someone else stated, the difference was Myers liked Knight.

Could Leach have handled it better, yeah but I think he was going to be gone because he wasn't perceived as loyal that the old guard in Lubbock.

david Mc Williams was a high school at Abilene.

[bluedogok]

david Mc Williams was a high school at Abilene.
He was there to start off his coaching career but he wasn't there very long (4 seasons). He was an assistant at UT longer (16 seasons) than he was at Abilene HS. He was also a UT player (61-63).

1966-1969 Abilene HS (HC)
1970-1981 Texas (DE/LB coach)
1982-1985 Texas (DC)
1986 Texas Tech (HC)
1987-1991 Texas (HC)

My wife was at Tech when all the McWilliams stuff went down and she thinks they may react the same way this time by trying to hire someone loyal rather than someone who might job shop. Much like what Tulsa basketball went through.

[TUSooner]

JUICY GOODNESS from a "Fire craig James" website, offered by a guy who says he works for CBS:

Was on the sidelines of the Alamo Bowl and here are a few observations:
A)Baby James hung with his posse of thugs on the far side of the bulk of the players, the group would move, he and posse of 3 would move to opposite side. (second half though, the pr firm must have called him at halftime, because not only was he looking for the ESPN field camera to get in the shot, but he was also greeting players as they came off the field)
B)Saw Myers being escorted by Texas Rangers to Coaching box. Walking fast, no eye contact.
C)Tortillas on the sidelines, some with "messages" for Baby James.
D)Trainers wanted Rangers to escort Baby James after game to locker area, Rangers didn't refuse but told 'em "every camera in here will be focused on that, is that the pr you want? You guys surround, and besides he's a big ol boy who can take care of himself.
E) HEAVY police presence after game and near player buses.
E)AND, the most frustrating, Tech threw out four players to interview with media, three of which including Barron Batch and Brandon Carter who said nothing positive about Leach. Batch was quoted as saying: "Leach ain't coming back, he's gone, it's for the better and people need to get over it and move on" Carter was quoted as saying "he hoped Adam James could stay and play with the the Tech Football family, they love him"
QB "Sticks" said from the get go he was not talking about Leach, good or bad. Not one player "chosen" to talk to the media had a postive thing to say about Leach.
The only "postive" was from the Michigan State Coach who said at the end of his spill, that " he was not sure what all went on at Tech this week but his team played a well coached team and you don't get that way without without years and years of continuity, and Tech is a tough team and that again comes from great coaching"

[Leroy Lizard]

You guys surround, and besides he's a big ol boy who can take care of himself.

Nice police you got there in Texas. :D

So did the guy from CBS get a chance to watch the game when not manning the James Cam?

[TUSooner]

Nice police you got there in Texas. :D

So did the guy from CBS get a chance to watch the game when not manning the James Cam?

I have asked him where CBS and other media are while the James-ESPN-Tt triumvirate spin their story. I will advise of any response.

PS: google "derik lattig" and you can see that the guy is associated with CBS and has a b'cast news career background.

[TUSooner]

While I'm here: The thing that bothers me about the Leach side is that they may have suggested (or asserted) that there was no "discipline" or "punishment" of Baby James. If so, they should ditch that dodge ASAP.

[Leroy Lizard]

While I'm here: The thing that bothers me about the Leach side is that they may have suggested (or asserted) that there was no "discipline" or "punishment" of Baby James. If so, they should ditch that dodge ASAP.

I don't think anyone has been very consistent. On the Tech administration side, they're on one hand stating they fired Leach for insubordination, then it's for medical malpractice. Adam James can't get his story straight either. Who can you believe?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Definitely believe Craig James...he would never take money when he isn't supposed to!!!

[TUSooner]

From Mr. Lattig, when I asked where were the media who should have been reporting on the Tt-James-ESPN spinfest on the Alamo Bowl sidelines and presser.


I have been in the media over 25 years. One of my non media friends was with me on the sidelines and news conference asked the same thing. This is the way I explained it: No one will report what I saw. The reporters that follow the University will have future doors shut on them if they report what I saw or is deemed "unpopular". next time around credentials may not be issued, a beef may be registered with the reporters boss etc. I have seen this happen over the years not only with Tech but with Baylor a few years back. The "corp" or reporters covering the Alamo Bowl were mostly under 30 and just doing their job for low pay. Older reporters would have asked the questions that needed to be asked. One of the reporters in the newser misquoted QB sticks, which has gone all over now that Leach's QB said it was "over." Byron Batch made that comment. I have said from day one that Craig James is walking a slippery slope and the path is becoming more narrow daily. ESPN should have told James sorry it is happening but go air your laundry elsewhere.

[bluedogok]

Read some of the Lubbock media sites, the newspaper is following the company line while some of the TV media is presenting what I would call a more balanced view than what you see from ESPN or the Avalanche-Journal.