The mega-gigantor things Mike Leach thread [Archive] - Page 3

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ndpruitt03

12/30/2009, 09:31 PM

What is the university saying?

If they never offered the option to apologize, that makes a difference in my eyes.

The university has been trying to fire him for years. They want this to make it look like it was his fault and they thought it was going to be perfect for them with this situation with an ESPN guy complaining about how his son is treated. Why would Leach lie about having to sign something like that to keep his job?

ouwasp

12/30/2009, 09:33 PM

Where is this 'ignore' button you speak of? I'm not seeing it. I didn't even notice it was LL I was replying to or I wouldn't have bothered.

just click on the irritating person's name, that will pull up their public profile. Over to the left is something that says something like "put _____ on your ignore list".........click on that and life becomes just a little more happy. You will still see that _____ has posted, but you cannot see what they say (unless someone quotes him). Enjoy :)

Kimberlyz4OU

12/30/2009, 09:34 PM

Well that's hardly an unbiased source, but was this even "punishment"? I think leach just check-raised him. The kid tried to be a punk (imho) and Leach said okay if sunlight bugs, I am going to be doubly careful.

Son got butthurt about it and daddy called down the thunder.

Word....

This is exactly what I was thinking but I didn't have the words ---love it....

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 09:35 PM

He never said they didn't request an apology. What he said was that there was never an agreement that if he apologized that he would get his job back, or something to that effect.

So what I would like to know is: Was Leach told that an apology was due and would help smooth things over for the university?

If so, and he refused to write one, adios. You have a responsibility to your employer, and if something as simple would have helped the university avoid negative press and a lawsuit and you refuse to write one, then you deserve whatever comes your way.

MeMyself&Me

12/30/2009, 09:42 PM

Well that's hardly an unbiased source, but was this even "punishment"? I think leach just check-raised him. The kid tried to be a punk (imho) and Leach said okay if sunlight bugs, I am going to be doubly careful.

Son got butthurt about it and daddy called down the thunder.

This was exactly what I meant when I put quotes around punishment when I replied to LL. I don't really think it was meant as much a punishment as a one-up to his bull****.

SanDiegoSoonerGal

12/30/2009, 09:43 PM

If so, and he refused to write one, adios. You have a responsibility to your employer, and if something as simple would have helped the university avoid negative press and a lawsuit and you refuse to write one, then you deserve whatever comes your way.

I don't care how much it would help my employer avoid negative press and a lawsuit, I am not apologizing if I don't feel I am in the wrong. That would make me a liar.

ETA: Not unless, of course, I was so desperate for the job I felt I had no choice but to compromise my principles. Which Leach obviously isn't.

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 09:46 PM

Are you guys listening to ESPN? Who said they can get a coach fired? This is a Leach bashing party. Oh well Tech will suck again. Good for us.

Boomer

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 09:47 PM

I don't care how much it would help my employer avoid negative press and a lawsuit, I am not apologizing if I don't feel I am in the wrong. That would make me a liar.

Then the employer is going to ask, "Are you working for us, or working for yourself? If you want to work for yourself, then you can write your own checks to yourself."

Leach is a lawyer. He should know that standing on "the principle of the thing" is often a dumb thing to do.

Kimberlyz4OU

12/30/2009, 09:48 PM

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 09:49 PM

Are you guys listening to ESPN? Who said they can get a coach fired? This is a Leach bashing party. Oh well Tech will suck again. Good for us.

Actually, I think their comments were spot on. And the Chancellor pretty summed the problem: They wanted to smooth things over and Leach wouldn't cooperate.

ESPN didn't get Leach fired. I think that is pretty clear.

FaninAma

12/30/2009, 09:50 PM

Leach acted like an @ss and forgot who
signed his check.

Kimberlyz4OU

12/30/2009, 09:50 PM

and just because they sign my checks they don't own me or my integrity - right is right - wrong is wrong

BIGC

12/30/2009, 09:51 PM

just click on the irritating person's name, that will pull up their public profile. Over to the left is something that says something like "put _____ on your ignore list".........click on that and life becomes just a little more happy. You will still see that _____ has posted, but you cannot see what they say (unless someone quotes him). Enjoy :)

Thanks I feel better already:)

Explodo

12/30/2009, 09:51 PM

I call *********gery LL. If I can get you to aplogize for something that didn;t occur (Meaning ethicly you are a liar) How can I ever trust you to be honest in the future.

The apology canard is just that. Leach outplayed the AD easily...and you for that matter.

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 09:51 PM

Mark May-"You're never gonna be bigger than the chancellor, he went to bat for you, your ego got in the way" -----I think I'm gonna puke.....are you kidding me.?? Yes ESPN thinks we are stupid and SanDiegoSoonerGal nailed it ^^^^ If I know I didnt do anything wrong; I'll be damned if I'm gonna apologize, I don't care who you are

Then don't complain if you get fired. If you are my employee and you do something to upset a client, you're apologizing or you're cleaning out your desk. And I don't give a **** if you think you did nothing wrong.

BoulderSooner79

12/30/2009, 09:52 PM

Collier11

12/30/2009, 09:52 PM

Actually, I think their comments were spot on. And the Chancellor pretty summed the problem: They wanted to smooth things over and Leach wouldn't cooperate.

ESPN didn't get Leach fired. I think that is pretty clear.

Leach acted like an @ss and forgot who
signed his check.

Thats one very slanted side of the story, why dont we wait and see what happens in court when all the facts come out

FaninAma

12/30/2009, 09:53 PM

Plus If i was PAYING my kids way . Id want to know the Lil Shat head was working .

I don't care how much it would help my employer avoid negative press and a lawsuit, I am not apologizing if I don't feel I am in the wrong. That would make me a liar.

ETA: Not unless, of course, I was so desperate for the job I felt I had no choice but to compromise my principles. Which Leach obviously isn't.

Them don't act suprised when your employer hands you a
pink slip. Everybody picks and chooses which hills
they're willing to die on. I guess Leach felt this was
one of those hills.

Sirus

12/30/2009, 09:53 PM

When I was in the military years ago, there was a phrase that floated around
called " Sh!thouse Lawyer". I believe that that is what we have a bunch of here. If you don't practice law for a living, this is what you are. It will all come out eventually.

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 09:54 PM

LL of course you feel the comments were spot on. You've made your stance on this situation really clear on this thread.

Trust me we all know how you feel, no need to keep stating it over and over again, and choosing to argue with every post that sees it differently than you.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

12/30/2009, 09:55 PM

Are you guys listening to ESPN? Who said they can get a coach fired? This is a Leach bashing party. Oh well Tech will suck again. Good for us.

BoomerNO SHIITE! They are sticking up for their colleague, Saint Craig James. What an effing Twilight Zone!

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 09:55 PM

I call *********gery LL. If I can get you to aplogize for something that didn;t occur (Meaning ethicly you are a liar) How can I ever trust you to be honest in the future.

I have the perfect job for you: self-employed!

If you are self-employed, you can do anything you want. If you work for me, you are not going to take my company down on your silly principles. I have a responsibility to my clients and employees, and no single employee takes precedence.

Now, if I ask you to do something illegal, that's a different story.

Explodo

12/30/2009, 10:00 PM

aske me to lie once...and I do it...You'd never trust me again...

You know...at least you're finally admitting how unethical the TT MAnagemnt group is...

Thanks man.

TooSoon

12/30/2009, 10:01 PM

Then the employer is going to ask, "Are you working for us, or working for yourself? If you want to work for yourself, then you can write your own checks to yourself."

Leach is a lawyer. He should know that standing on "the principle of the thing" is often a dumb thing to do.

Don't lawyers always say NEVER apologize because it's taken as an admission of guilt which will bite you later when the "injured party" (i.e. Adam James) goes on to sue you?

I once worked for a lawyer, and he told me as a medical professional to NEVER apologize as I will likely just make it easier for someone to successfully sue me. Fortunately it's never been an issue, but if Leach is a lawyer it may be ingrained in him to avoid written apologies...

TMcGee86

12/30/2009, 10:01 PM

Leach is a lawyer. He should know that standing on "the principle of the thing" is often a dumb thing to do.

Actually this is precisely the reason that he shouldn't apologize.

As a lawyer he knows that apologizing for something that he feels wasn't wrong could be viewed as an admission of guilt.

I don't blame him at all. If it came up later in contract or firing negotiations the first thing the board would say would be "why did you apologize if you felt you did nothing wrong."

There are never any instances you should apologize if you feel you are not in the wrong.

btk108

12/30/2009, 10:02 PM

I have to admit, listening to that TT chancellor was refreshing. No wishy-washy lawyer talk, just definitive, simple english. I still think the AD just wanted to dump Leach and knowing Mike's stubbornness, just pushed the right buttons and cornered him.

Yah..that Chancellor was doing everything he could to help Mike out....even with his contract negotations according to the all knowing Mark May. Apparently you've never met a Texas "good ole boy".

Check this link out.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231newleach.pdf

TMcGee86

12/30/2009, 10:04 PM

Don't lawyers always say NEVER apologize because it's taken as an admission of guilt which will bite you later when the "injured party" (i.e. Adam James) goes on to sue you?

I once worked for a lawyer, and he told me as a medical professional to NEVER apologize as I will likely just make it easier for someone to successfully sue me. Fortunately it's never been an issue, but if Leach is a lawyer it may be ingrained in him to avoid written apologies...

exactly right, you beat me to it. Good job.

As a lawyer, I can say emphatically no one should ever apologize for something that wasn't wrong.

And Tech knows this and it is exactly why they requested it. Leach is no dummy, he saw what they were doing and he did the right thing. It's not like it was a secret that they wanted him gone.

ouduckhunter

12/30/2009, 10:07 PM

Mark May-"You're never gonna be bigger than the chancellor, he went to bat for you, your ego got in the way" -----I think I'm gonna puke.....are you kidding me.?? Yes ESPN thinks we are stupid and SanDiegoSoonerGal nailed it ^^^^ If I know I didnt do anything wrong; I'll be damned if I'm gonna apologize, I don't care who you are

ESpin = Judge, Jury, and Executioner!!

Next thing we know they're going to put on of those mock trials where Mark and Lou both will plead that Leach is guilty and deserves to be convicted!! They'll probably bring in Craig James as a special judge to hear the case!!

They are all blooming idiots!

SoonerBacker

12/30/2009, 10:08 PM

I have the perfect job for you: self-employed!

If you are self-employed, you can do anything you want. If you work for me, you are not going to take my company down on your silly principles. I have a responsibility to my clients and employees, and no single employee takes precedence.

Now, if I ask you to do something illegal, that's a different story.

Sorry, but Craig James was not a freakin client of Tech! Neither was his lamebutt son. This issue did not revolve around a client and a busness that was supposed to be serving the needs of said cllient. It revolved around a whinney-a$$ed athlete who got his feelings hurt and his big daddy who works for eSPIN.

SoonerStormchaser

12/30/2009, 10:08 PM

If that video of the "shed" and "electric closet" as well as those "emails" are all true, then Tech is royally ****ed.

...and I hope they are!

BoulderSooner79

12/30/2009, 10:11 PM

Yah..that Chancellor was doing everything he could to help Mike out....even with his contract negotations according to the all knowing Mark May. Apparently you've never met a Texas "good ole boy".

Check this link out.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231newleach.pdf

Not saying I bought it all - I just expected lawyer speak. The memo you linked is the real issue here - not the James kid. This was a marriage made in hell or at least purgatory. And Leach *has* looked around every year. Nothing wrong with that as TT is not a destination job. It's just a weird situation to complete a long term, multi-million dollar contract under such strained relationships. An early ending was predictable.

Kimberlyz4OU

12/30/2009, 10:11 PM

ESpin = Judge, Jury, and Executioner!!

Next thing we know they're going to put on of those mock trials where Mark and Lou both will plead that Leach is guilty and deserves to be convicted!! They'll probably bring in Craig James as a special judge to hear the case!!

They are all blooming idiots!

Maybe "if" we are lucky Lou can even spit on us while he's talking - gah!!

prrriiide

12/30/2009, 10:13 PM

The more I look at this, the more I begin to suspect that there is something fishy going on. I would like to see an enterprising reporter locate and connect any business dots between Jim Sowell (a Dallas-based real estate developer and chair of the TTU Regents) and Craig James.

OUinFLA

12/30/2009, 10:17 PM

Im guessing Leach is gonna sue TT for about 70 gazillion bucks. Gonna be more of a prob for TT than it will for the Pirate.

btw, why does Mark May still have a job at espn?
what a doosh

btk108

12/30/2009, 10:20 PM

prrriiide

12/30/2009, 10:20 PM

btw, why does Mark May still have a job at espn?
what a doosh

He's been putting his nut-duster to good use with the Disney suits...

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 10:23 PM

Actually this is precisely the reason that he shouldn't apologize.

That's not for Leach to decide. This is an issue concerning Texas Tech, and if the Chancellor of the university thinks that an apology is needed to settle the issue, then you have the choice.

As a lawyer he knows that apologizing for something that he feels wasn't wrong could be viewed as an admission of guilt.

There was no disputing the facts in this case. Both sides acknowledge what took place.

Now, if the player was claiming that Leach put him in an iron maiden, and the university was disputing it, then an apology would likely be unwise because it would be an admission that such an action took place.

I don't blame him at all. If it came up later in contract or firing negotiations the first thing the board would say would be "why did you apologize if you felt you did nothing wrong."

As opposed to being fired and having no job at all?

There are never any instances you should apologize if you feel you are not in the wrong.

That's simply wrong. You said something to a client that hurt her feelings. You didn't mean it the way she understood it. No matter, you are apologizing if that is what it takes. I don't want to hear any crap that "Well, I didn't mean it that way, so I am not going to apologize."

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 10:25 PM

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 10:25 PM

Sorry, but Craig James was not a freakin client of Tech! Neither was his lamebutt son.

It was just an analogy.

Piware

12/30/2009, 10:27 PM

It's interesting that you say you like Leach. I think that is coloring a lot of this. Also, a lot of people don't like Craig James, which is part of the problem.

Until this exploded I didn't have a feeling about Craig James one way or another. In fact, as much as I dislike most the ESPN types James was one of the least offensive.

What I don't like is an "on air talent" what uses his position as a bully pulpit, whether it be sports, politics or restaurant reviews. That's not their job and, after reading Graham Harrel's comments, I tend to believe a guy that was THERE.

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 10:31 PM

It was just an analogy.

That didn't fit this scenario

SoonerBacker

12/30/2009, 10:31 PM

It was just an analogy.

And it was a poor one.

TUSooner

12/30/2009, 10:32 PM

ESPN really needs to STFU about Leach I'm skeptical of media bias claims, but ESPN just ran a crawler quoting the strongest anti-Leach comment by a player. In a full story, you can do that because you can also report other comments. But to run that on a crawl at the bottom of the screen is very misleading. Yellow Journalism at its gheyest. Craig James is an ESPN guy, and nobody who knows him at ESPiN going to criticize him. And the "World Wide Leader" is not about to report that his kid was a slacker and a malcontent. I'm ignoring anything ESPiN has to say about Leach from now on.

Kimberlyz4OU

12/30/2009, 10:34 PM

Yeah, I never had an opinion on Craig James either but now - nah wouldn't **** on him if he were on fire and for the record it would be a little more complicated for me.....sorry.....anyway, when he started talking about how hard this was on his family, blah, blah blahcakes...then I realized NO, he would have taken care of it between Leach, himself and the admin if it were that HARD on him and "family"....blech.....

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 10:35 PM

It was only designed to show that there are instances where a person needs to apologize in a situation where they don't really think they need to. That's all.

olevetonahill

12/30/2009, 10:36 PM

olevet, you have only stated this about thirty times by now.

And YOU keep sayin the same **** also :rolleyes:

Piware

12/30/2009, 10:37 PM

It was only designed to show that there are instances where a person needs to apologize in a situation where they don't really think they need to. That's all.

Okay, now I am going to look for that Ignore thingy because LL would clearly argue with a sign post. ;)

btk108

12/30/2009, 10:38 PM

Okay, now I am going to look for that Ignore thingy because LL would clearly argue with a sign post. ;)

won't do any good because PEOPLE keep quoting him in their posts.....

TUSooner

12/30/2009, 10:40 PM

This isn't just boredom we are talking about.

Also, placing someone in a dark room and forcing him to stand is pretty juvenile.

We are also assuming that Adam James did something worth punishment, but that hasn't been established either. Leach may have just been pissed that James showed up with sunglasses and went off on him.

That is very misleading. All the doctor said was that the punishment didn't have any harmful effects on the player's concussion. That does not excuse the punishment.

Forcing him to walk naked in the mall wouldn't have harmed his concussion any either, but so what?

Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle. You've been talking like the guy got waterboarded or sleep deprived. A coachmade aguy stand in a dark room for a couple of hours. Unusual? Maybe. Cruel? No way. Get real and stop with the babble.

Collier11

12/30/2009, 10:42 PM

There was no disputing the facts in this case. Both sides acknowledge what took place.

Now, if the player was claiming that Leach put him in an iron maiden, and the university was disputing it, then an apology would likely be unwise because it would be an admission that such an action took place.

The facts arent as black and white as you are making them, sure he was put in the room and that was acknowledged but we have already seen that they way the room was described was innacurate and Leach and the team doctor as well as players and coaches all dispute the reasoning of using those rooms.

As opposed to being fired and having no job at all?

Luckily for Leach, he has made enough money in his life that he has no need to take a hit for no reason, if he believes he is correct then I have no issue with him defending his repuation

That's simply wrong. You said something to a client that hurt her feelings. You didn't mean it the way she understood it. No matter, you are apologizing if that is what it takes. I don't want to hear any crap that "Well, I didn't mean it that way, so I am not going to apologize."

I think you are making this far too cut n dry, I would put money on it that TT ends up paying out a whole hell of a lot more than $400k a yr for 4 years and if thats the case, that will tell us who is right or wrong

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 10:43 PM

I really can't believe that espin is being so blatantly biased on this situation. They keep going to Reese Davis and he mentions the Leach scenario, but the guys in the booth say nothing with ***** boy's pappa right next to them.

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 10:43 PM

So let's dredge up a post of mine from hours ago, fire back at it, and then we'll complain if I respond.

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 10:44 PM

Now Collier comes in with an old post of mine and responds to it. Again, if I respond everyone will cry.

ouduckhunter

12/30/2009, 10:45 PM

Hi Duckie! How's my football?

Hi BTK!! It is doing great!! We love it, and it looks so pretty in it's fancy display case!! One of these days we're going to take some pictures of it and post them here.

Pac10Sux won't let me touch it, so he'll be the one fondling the ball! :D

Hope that you and your family had a wonderful Christmas! Happy New Year!!!

TUSooner

12/30/2009, 10:46 PM

I certainly think he made a mistake in raising the issue to Tech. But at that point this may have had less to do with him than the relationship between the coach and AD.

I think most people realize that Leach had major, fatal problems in his relationship with Tt.

Nonetheless, Leach certainly appears to have been railroaded over an overblown issue with a prima donna and his dad. To make it worse, Craig James's "colleagues" at ESPiN are hurting themselves in protecting him. I'm not a mob, and I know damn well that's all wrong.

TMcGee86

12/30/2009, 10:50 PM

That's not for Leach to decide. This is an issue concerning Texas Tech, and if the Chancellor of the university thinks that an apology is needed to settle the issue, then you have the choice.

There was no disputing the facts in this case. Both sides acknowledge what took place.

Now, if the player was claiming that Leach put him in an iron maiden, and the university was disputing it, then an apology would likely be unwise because it would be an admission that such an action took place.

As opposed to being fired and having no job at all?

That's simply wrong. You said something to a client that hurt her feelings. You didn't mean it the way she understood it. No matter, you are apologizing if that is what it takes. I don't want to hear any crap that "Well, I didn't mean it that way, so I am not going to apologize."

You wouldn't apologize, you would explain your side of the statement and why she took it the wrong way.

Basically what it sounds like Leach did.

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 10:51 PM

I grew up just outside of Lubbock and I can tell you one thing is certain. The best view of Lubbock is in the rearview mirror.

olevetonahill

12/30/2009, 10:52 PM

Then don't complain if you get fired. If you are my employee and you do something to upset a client, you're apologizing or you're cleaning out your desk. And I don't give a **** if you think you did nothing wrong.

Oh WOW CJ is Now a Client ???????
you just keep gettin dumber :rolleyes:

AlbqSooner

12/30/2009, 10:53 PM

In one of the posts several pages back there was alink to an article that said the Letter of Termination which was delivered to Leach cited his violation of Article 4 of the contract as "just cause". (Find the link yourself, I am too lazy to go look it up) That article of the contract refers to treating athlete's under Leach's control in a manner that is injurious to the athlete. Given that Adam James' TREATING PHYSICIAN has stated on the record that the treatment given by Leach was appropriate, it seems that TTech will have a long hard row to hoe in this lawsuit. A jury will not give much credence to the argument that embarrasing or even humiliating an athlete if front of his peers rises to the level of injurious.

As far as why not grant James' request to transfer to SMU, Leach has stated, prior to James request, that he will grant a request to transfer to any athlete who requests it with 3 exceptions: 1. No transfers to another Big XII school; 2. No transfers to another Texas school; and, 3. No transfers to a school that TTech is scheduled to play while that athlete would be eligible. All exceptions appear to be reasonable.

As far as Leachisms on this situation, we may get some prior to the conclusion of the lawsuit. There is little doubt that the TTech attorneys will take the opportunity to depose him. I am unsure of FOIA requirements in suits against Texas public institutions, but those depositions may well be in the public domain at some point.

The linked Dallas Morning News article sets forth a series of emails which will be VERY difficult for TTech to deal with in any jury trial. The aparent number of athletes who can be called as witnesses to testify to Leach always having the athlete's best interest at heart will be VERY difficult for TTech to deal with in any jury trial. The perception of this resulting from a whiny, lying, corner cutting, discontent fomenting, privileged but undertalented and undermotivated son of a former Star football player and current ESPN analcyst - I mean analyst - will be VERY difficult for TTech to deal with in any jury trial.

My opinion, based on 20 years as a trial attorney, is that Leach will be given a settlement far in excess of the buyout terms of this contract prior to trial. My opinion, based upon observing people for many years, is that this will be a stain on TTech for many years to come.
My opinion, based upon watching parent/child relationships over the years is that Adam James will need for his father to be wealthy enough to both care for Adam during Craig's live and to leave him a trust fund sufficient to sustain him after Craig is gone.

PLaw

12/30/2009, 10:55 PM

Collier11

12/30/2009, 10:55 PM

Now Collier comes in with an old post of mine and responds to it. Again, if I respond everyone will cry.

Oh quit being a baby, I just got on the board for the first time in a few hours and your post that I quoted was only from 30 min ago. Quit feeling sorry for yourself and take responsibility for the dumb crap youve been postin

olevetonahill

12/30/2009, 10:55 PM

TMcGee86

12/30/2009, 10:56 PM

What's so funny is Sylvester started the half time show by spitting out the phrase "who says coaching doesn't make a difference" the. Goes on to say what he said about Nebs improvement with Bo. Not 2 full spit cups later gos on to bash Leach. Hey coach are you familar with Tech's history prior to Leach?

Whatever happened to real unbiased journalism?

Not only that but they go into what the chancelor said and how it was clear they had to do what they did because you cannot tolerate insubordination.

So let me get this straight ESPN, its okay for TTU to fire Leach for insubordination but completely unacceptable for Leach to not tolerate insubordination on his team.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

btk108

12/30/2009, 10:58 PM

Pac10Sux won't let me touch it, so he'll be the one fondling the ball! :D

That's WHAT SHE SAID!...*L*...sorry couldn't help myself. Wait, you are a she, so I'm right. :D

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 10:59 PM

You wouldn't apologize, you would explain your side of the statement and why she took it the wrong way.

Often, that isn't good enough.

"Adam, I want to apologize for placing you in the weight room in the manner I did. At the time, I didn't think my action was harmful, but after talking it over with my staff I now realize that I placed you in an unnecessarily humiliating situation. For that, I'm sorry." (I'm not saying this is the best way to do it, btw.)

Sometimes you just have to take on the chin for your employer. It happens.

TUSooner

12/30/2009, 11:01 PM

See... Liz just likes to argue, and he'll latch onto any point, however immaterial or tangential, and chew on it like a dog chews an old sock. Other posters waste their time trying to get it away from him, but in the end, he's just got an old sock. The prime example is the apology issue: If - a big IF - Leach could have issued a faux apology and saved his job, and he didn't do it, he should have been fired. AS IF that's the start and finish of the whole deal. Just back up and take a breath.

OUinFLA

12/30/2009, 11:02 PM

ok legal geeks,
can Leach sue espn for ..... oh, I dont know....impuning his character....or ...
reporting "locked" in a "shed".........
Id love to see espn pay out about a billion to the Pirate.

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 11:02 PM

guzziguy

12/30/2009, 11:02 PM

Life is much better with certain people on ignore. Just say'in.

:pop:

AlbqSooner

12/30/2009, 11:03 PM

Not only that but they go into what the chancelor said and how it was clear they had to do what they did because you cannot tolerate insubordination.

So let me get this straight ESPN, its okay for TTU to fire Leach for insubordination but completely unacceptable for Leach to not tolerate insubordination on his team.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Good point. However, the letter of termination stated what they are relying on for "cause" to fire him. It did not mention insubordination. They are stuck with their letter IMHO.

olevetonahill

12/30/2009, 11:05 PM

Okay, now I am going to look for that Ignore thingy because LL would clearly argue with a sign post. ;)

I said that earlier :D

TUSooner

12/30/2009, 11:05 PM

ok legal geeks,
can Leach sue espn for ..... oh, I dont know....impuning his character....or ...
reporting "locked" in a "shed".........
Id love to see espn pay out about a billion to the Pirate.

No. He's a "public figure" and there's this First Amendment dealy.

ESPiN is taking a major credibility hit here, I mean their sanctimonious justfication of CJ and their equally sanctimonious lynching of Leach is disgraceful.

OUinFLA

12/30/2009, 11:06 PM

man, are we bored or what?
we got 29 pages of posts about Leach and not one thing being responded to on the forum regarding our Sun Bowl game.

I guess we're not very excited about being in El Paso.

TMcGee86

12/30/2009, 11:08 PM

Good point. However, the letter of termination stated what they are relying on for "cause" to fire him. I did not mention insubordination. They are stuck with their letter IMHO.

yeah I'm just specifically talking about what Hance said and how the ESPN crew reacted to it.

He said it all boiled down to Leach being a jerk and not even discussing the incident and them being tired of his insubordination.

sooneredaco

12/30/2009, 11:08 PM

TMcGee86

12/30/2009, 11:10 PM

Kimberlyz4OU

12/30/2009, 11:10 PM

man, are we bored or what?
we got 29 pages of posts about Leach and not one thing being responded to on the forum regarding our Sun Bowl game.

I guess we're not very excited about being in El Paso.

You know I was thinking the same thing earlier....I'm at freaking work tomorrow at 1:00 -but I'll be listening to Bob and Merv. Hey, there's a bright side at least Bob doesn't sound like Lou - it's close sometimes, but I honestly couldn't take it-his teeth clacking together-it drives me insane. So yeah, there's that.....

OUinFLA

12/30/2009, 11:15 PM

You know I was thinking the same thing earlier....I'm at freaking work tomorrow at 1:00 -but I'll be listening to Bob and Merv. Hey, there's a bright side at least Bob doesn't sound like Lou - it's close sometimes, but I honestly couldn't take it-his teeth clacking together-it drives me insane. So yeah, there's that.....

If you worked for me I would give you the day off.
All Sooners working for me get football game days off.

oh, wait, Im the only Sooner fan in my company.

AlbqSooner

12/30/2009, 11:18 PM

yeah I'm just specifically talking about what Hance said and how the ESPN crew reacted to it.

He said it all boiled down to Leach being a jerk and not even discussing the incident and them being tired of his insubordination.

I edited the post. Meant to say "It did not mention insubordination." It referring to the Letter of Termination. Yet another instance of the ESPN crew not bothering to arm themselves with facts prior to spewing their vitriolic diatribe.

olevetonahill

12/30/2009, 11:19 PM

If you worked for me I would give you the day off.
All Sooners working for me get football game days off.

oh, wait, Im the only Sooner fan in my company.

She dont werk fer me
But Ima give her the day off anyway
:cool:

OUinFLA

12/30/2009, 11:19 PM

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 11:22 PM

In one of the posts several pages back there was alink to an article that said the Letter of Termination which was delivered to Leach cited his violation of Article 4 of the contract as "just cause". (Find the link yourself, I am too lazy to go look it up) That article of the contract refers to treating athlete's under Leach's control in a manner that is injurious to the athlete. Given that Adam James' TREATING PHYSICIAN has stated on the record that the treatment given by Leach was appropriate, it seems that TTech will have a long hard row to hoe in this lawsuit. A jury will not give much credence to the argument that embarrasing or even humiliating an athlete if front of his peers rises to the level of injurious.

Was there anything mentioned about insubordination?

As far as why not grant James' request to transfer to SMU, Leach has stated, prior to James request, that he will grant a request to transfer to any athlete who requests it with 3 exceptions: 1. No transfers to another Big XII school; 2. No transfers to another Texas school; and, 3. No transfers to a school that TTech is scheduled to play while that athlete would be eligible. All exceptions appear to be reasonable.

This is what I find surprising. Why wouldn't it be the athletic director's decision? I was not aware that a mere coach would be the one that decided on whether an athlete under scholarship could transfer. Strange.

The linked Dallas Morning News article sets forth a series of emails which will be VERY difficult for TTech to deal with in any jury trial. The aparent number of athletes who can be called as witnesses to testify to Leach always having the athlete's best interest at heart will be VERY difficult for TTech to deal with in any jury trial. The perception of this resulting from a whiny, lying, corner cutting, discontent fomenting, privileged but undertalented and undermotivated son of a former Star football player and current ESPN analcyst - I mean analyst - will be VERY difficult for TTech to deal with in any jury trial.

I would tend to agree if there was a dispute on what took place. But there doesn't appear to be any. Both sides agree on what happened. So I guess the question becomes, "Was the punishment beyond what should be administered?"

Or, was the firing done just to save the university money? If so, I don't see how the testimony of former players will play a role.

My opinion, based upon watching parent/child relationships over the years is that Adam James will need for his father to be wealthy enough to both care for Adam during Craig's live and to leave him a trust fund sufficient to sustain him after Craig is gone.

I doubt this episode will have any long-term effect on Adam's employment.

Kimberlyz4OU

12/30/2009, 11:28 PM

yes, Mr. Chancellor on the ESPN interview with one of the talking heads mentioned the whole Insubordination BS........so.....uh huh

SicEmBaylor

12/30/2009, 11:30 PM

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but it was in a thread over on Baylorfans. These are letters sent to CBS Sports from former players and coaches that know both Adam James and Coach Leach

Maybe these have already been posted , but these emails are supporting Leach . This thing is really getting nasty .

These e-mails were forwarded to CBSSports.com on Tuesday. They include messages from strength coach Bennie Wylie, inside receivers coach Lincoln Riley, former assistant coach Dana Holgorsen (now at Houston) and former players Eric Morris, Graham Harrell and Rylan Reed ...

Two days prior to the incident in question, I disciplined Adam James along with several other recievers. His attitude was poor the entire time; even with constant plees for improvement. By the end of the practice, a few of the other recievers accepted their lack of performance in the previous practice and worked harder. Adam was not one of these individuals. He was last on all the excercises asked to do and talked and "danced" during the discipline. When told that this was unacceptable, he simply shrugged his shoulders. I continued to encourge him with no success.

Bennie Wylie
Head Strength and Conditioning Coach
Texas Tech University

To whom it may concern:

You can find out a lot about a person after playing three years of college football with them. Adam James was a teammate of mine from 2006-2009. Ever since the day he arrived on the Texas Tech campus you couldn’t help but to feel a negative energy from him. He expected people to baby him and that he was going make it solely on the fact that his father was a very successful player. Coach Leach has never been a coach to just give something to someone because of who they are. He believes that everyone is equal and you have to earn respect from your coaches and teammates. Adam was never known as a hard worker. I can honestly agree with this because we played the same position and I witnessed his laziness on a daily bases. Adam seemed to have a negative attitude towards the football program the majority of the time. That negative energy is never good for a team and can cause some major problems on and off the field. During practices, Adam always tried to get by with doing the least he possibly could. Never do I once remember Adam to be excited or enthusiastic to be out there. It was almost like he was playing the game of football to please someone other than himself.

Sincerely,

Eric Morris

To Whom It May Concern:

Texas Tech University and the athletic department is filled with great people from the top down, starting with the chancellor all the way down to the student athletes involved in the programs. In the football program, Gerald Myers and the rest of the administration have put together an unbelievable staff that believe success only comes from hard work and doing things right. The staff expects the players and everyone involved to buy into their beliefs, but like anywhere not every player agrees with or buys into what the coaches and program stand for. At Texas Tech the majority of the players do everything the coaches ask of them and anything possible to improve the team. Adam James is one of the few players who has never bought into what Texas Tech football was built on and in my years there with him had a negative impact on the team because of his attitude and work ethic on and off the field. Coach Leach demands a lot out of every player in the program and pushed his players and coaches as hard as any coach I have ever been around, but he is fair to every player and would never make and decision or action that is not best for the Texas Tech football program.

Before Adam James ever entered the football locker room at Texas Tech I heard how spoiled and selfish he acted in a team atmosphere from many of my baseball friends. Adam was on the baseball team his true freshman year at Tech, before he ever joined the football team, and did not make it through the baseball season because of his selfish attitude. After a baseball game in which he felt like he did not get enough playing time, but the team still won twenty to one, he came into the locker room after the game and “pouted and threw a big fit” according another player on the baseball team. A few weeks later in the middle of the season, he just stopped showing up to practices or game and quit because he was not happy about how he was being treated. One of my roommates was a baseball player on the team and many of my friends were a part of the team that witnessed all of this. These baseball players told me he was “spoiled and selfish” before he ever came to the football team. After quitting baseball he came out for football and his selfish attitude was very evident, as was his laziness. During off-season workouts he often would be caught skipping lifts in the weight room or finding ways to cut corners/get out of conditioning exercises. When we had player organized seven on seven throwing in the summer, when he would show up he was much more interested in playing his own games on the side of the field or telling people that he wasn’t going to run any routes because the coaches do not get him a “fair opportunity” anyway. During the season he was often “injured” (it usually seemed like a very minor injury that could keep him out of practice but never out of any other activity, including games) so he would not participate in some drills in practice. None of these acts were productive for our team, but the most detrimental part of Adam was his off field attitude and actions. In the locker room and away from the facility, Adam used any opportunity he had to tell other players how he was being treated unfairly, how the coaches did not give him a fair chance and how we did not have to do everything the coaches told us because they had no option but to play some of us. When I heard these kinds of things I usually tried to put an end to them but Adam pretty consistently talked bad about the coaches or down played the importance of working hard, when he was off the field. When he talked to young players or players that were usually on the scout he would explain how the coaches were not fair to certain players and only played favorites. When he talked to players that did get some playing time he would talk about how we didn’t really have to do what the coaches asked of us because the coaches had to play us anyway. And it almost always tied back to how he was not getting a fair chance to play just because the coaches were unfair. The coaches were always more than fair to Adam I felt, because he came in the game during certain formations and situations last football season, but because of his work ethic and attitude, many of the players on last years team had a hard time trusting him or relying on him because he was not always practicing and we had seen his laziness during the off-season. Adam was a kid that seemed like he had been given everything he wanted his whole life and acted like if things did not go exactly how he wanted someone was treating him unfairly or someone needed to be blamed for his failures. He was a selfish player on and off the field that was counter-productive for our team and would be for any other team.

Mike Leach was not only my head coach, but he was my position coach all five of my years at Texas Tech. I spent more time with him than any other player during my five years and had meetings with him every day. He was very hard on me and every other player in program and he held very high expectations for every player. He would push us all every day during the season and during the off-season. He felt that hard work, dedication and doing things right was the only way we could be successful and compete in the Big XII conference. He worked harder and longer than anyone else in program and was committed to winning at all cost. He would never have been unfair to a player or not played the best players he had because he wanted to win more than anything else. Coach Leach also expected us to be tough but smart at the same time. He would not pressure a kid to play with a serious injury or play when he did not feel ready to play. Coach Leach is a man that cares about his player and puts his players, coaches and the well being of the Texas Tech football program above all else.

Coach Leach is a great coach at Texas Tech that emphasizes the importance of hard work and doing things the right way so that the football program has the best opportunity possible to be successful. He, along with the administration and the rest of his staff, have built a great football program at Texas Tech that is built on the virtues and principles that give any program an opportunity to be successful. Every single player may not buy into the program’s beliefs, but Mike Leach has almost everyone on board with him and the Texas Tech football program on a successful track.

Graham Harrell

To whom it may concern:

As a player under coach Leach, I have experienced some of the most memorable moments of my life in which I am very grateful for. As I stated I am a former Red Raider that played for Mike Leach and got to know him well over my four years as a Red Raider. I admire the professionalism and dedication Mike had for the game, the university and his players. He always demanded the best from each of us and we became better players and people for it. Although he pushed his players and coaches to be the best, his decisions and actions were always consistent with maintaining the program’s integrity and were in the best interest of his players. As a player, my commitment to the team was based on the trust I had developed in Coach Leach as a leader who would always put his players and his team in the best possible position for success. As a result of his guidance and coaching, in combination with my own hard work, I was able to overcome great adversity to become an All-American tackle.

A couple of bowl games ago in the Gator Bowl, I suffered a severe injury to my lower left leg in which took a lot of support from family, friends, fans, coach’s, teammates and most importantly coach Leach to get me back. It was a long road to recovery that took careful attention from trainers during practices, and Leach was always checking to make sure that I was ok. During camp, oftentimes I had to practice one day and then take a day off because of soreness. Coach Leach was very understanding, always had my best interest in mind at all times, and I will always be appreciative of that.

Another incident that occurred was after my pro day in which I hurt my knee and my dream of playing in the NFL quickly came to a halt so I went home to rehab with two semesters left from graduating. I was able to get a job and start working, but quickly realized that to get the dream job in the real world that I always wanted, it would take getting my degree from Texas Tech. When I got home from work one day, I got a phone call from coach Leach asking, if they were able to get some paper work filled out, would I be willing to come back to school to finish my degree, and of course I said yes. I am proud to say that, as a result of coach Leach’s influence, I will finish my degree from Texas Tech in May 2010. If that does not show how coach Leach cares for his players, then I do not know what does.
The allegations against coach Leach are not consistent with the standards and beliefs that he has for himself and the University of Texas Tech. He has always been fair and respectful to my teammates and I. I was very saddened to hear that someone could try to take away all that he has done for this university, players and fans. I hope that you take this into consideration, and I also would be willing to further discuss anything in detail in person or by phone.

Sincerely,

Rylan Reed

To Who it May Concern:

During the last two years of being the inside receivers coach, I have
had the chance to learn alot about Adam James. He came to Tech
because of one person: Coach Leach. Although we adamently doubted
his talent, we as coaches came to see that Adam actually had enough
talent to help us out. The problem, though, is that Adam is
unusually lazy and entitled. Many other players on this team,
specifically receivers, have a much larger role on this team with less
talent. I have always been worried about Adam's effect on my other
players because of his weak and conceited attitude. I recently found
out that Adam deliberately undermined my authority on many occasions.
This is particularly disturbing because Coach Leach hired me to make
our receivers the best group in the country, and Adam has damaged this
group far more than I even realized. He should be grateful forthe
opportunity that was given to him here that was not offered at any
other Division 1 football program. He has an unvelievable sense of
entitlement because of who his father is; one that hurts himself and
people around him. Adam is the kind of person thatakes excuses or
blames people for things that go wrong in his life.
Furthermore, I don't have children yet, but when I do I hope they are
coached by someone like Coach Leach. I have learned so many great
things from him and am incredibly lucky to have him in my life.

Lincoln Riley

I am writing this letter on behalf of Mike Leach in regards to the Adam James situation. I was the inside receiver coach at Texas Tech when we made the decision the sign Adam James in January of 2007. Adam had no offers to play NCAA D1 football during and after his Senior year. After a conversation between Coach Leach and Adams father Craig, Coach Leach acquired a brief highlight tape of Adam and made the decision to take him as a scholarship student athlete. I was opposed to doing so in belief he was not a D1 football player. Coach Leach overrode my opinion and Adam became a Red Raider. During the rest of my time at Texas Tech I was Adams position coach where I always remained critical of Adams ability to play at this level due to being lazy in not only the classroom but also in the off season and during practice. Coach Leach was the one who kept saying he believed Adam would eventually contribute. Adams teammates believed he was selfish and were constantly getting onto him for lack of effort as they sensed entitlement on his part due to his father being a very good football player. Adam eventually ended up playing a little after I left due to his body type being able to do some TE sets which consists of around 5-10 plays a game. Adam should be thankful for the opportunity to play at Texas Tech and for Mike Leach, who gave him the opportunity. In my opinion playing 5-10 plays a game in an outstanding offense is more than he would get at any other school in NCAA D1 football.

Dana Holgorsen
OC & QB's
University of Houston

Two practices before Adam James claimed he had a concussion, Coach Leach and I were forced to discipline him for poor effort from the previous practice and poor effort during the early drills of that day. This has been a common theme about Adam's work ethic and attitude during his entire career. Adam, along with two other receivers that were also unsatisfactory, was sent to run stadium steps with Bennie Wylie. After the practice, Bennie made it very clear to Coach Leach and I that Adam was a complete "jerk" while he was being punished. After talking with Adam after the practice, it was very clear to me that Adam did not agree with the punishment and believed that we were just mis-asessing his effort. He complained to me that we were not doing our jobs as coaches and that his effort was just fine, all of which is very typical of him to say. By comparison, the other receiver that we punished agreed that his effort wasn't his best and had a good attitude with Bennie and also in meeting with me after practice. It's just another example of Adam thinking that he knows more about coaching than people who have been coaching for their entire lives. I have no doubt that anger from this led to where we are today with this situation and is his way of trying to "get back" at us coaches

Lincoln Riley

olevetonahill

12/30/2009, 11:30 PM

SicEmBaylor

12/30/2009, 11:31 PM

I get a pretty strong impression that Adam James is nothing more than a self-entitled *******.

TUSooner

12/30/2009, 11:32 PM

Socrefbek

12/30/2009, 11:34 PM

If the issue is academic, you have no say at any level. The university cannot talk to you about the academic performance of your kid.

If the problem is discomfort, then your kid needs to drop the class.

If the issue is real harm, then that is a matter for the police.

This isn't high school. For all practical purposes, your kid is a mature adult responsible for taking care of his or her own problems.

Now, if you would like to offer an example of a situation where you think a parent should be able to intervene, that would probably clarify things greatly.

The way I understand it is your kid has to sign a release for the university to give a parent information on a student that is 18 yrs or older.

However, If I am a parent paying for that college education you better damn well believe that kid will sign a release.:)

Sooner Eclipse

12/30/2009, 11:36 PM

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231newleach.pdf

http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=188&f=1650&t=5372015

Apparently there is admissions that Tech planned to fire him this year anyway.

Now ESpin is running video the ********* shot of his "cage". That video is being posted as well on youtube by a communications company apparently hired by daddy.

This is getting weird

TUSooner

12/30/2009, 11:36 PM

espn ticker is grating on my nerve.
"........Adam James, son of espn analyst Craig James....."

makes me wonder if it had been ...John Doe, son of Texas migrant worker Bob Doe... would have been as exciting a story line?

It's so all us viewers will think they're being candid as they spin it like the solar system for their guy. YWIA!

sooner518

12/30/2009, 11:42 PM

Veritas

12/30/2009, 11:43 PM

It's pretty clear reading through this thread who's played ball and who hasn't.

Those of you who have know that sometimes on teams you have a player who's just a bitch. A whiny, entitled little pansy, too lazy to go hard through monkey drills, wind sprints, full-pad kickouts, and all of the other grueling and painful work it takes to play ball.

Everything I've heard and read indicates that Adam James was this kind of player. He's lucky all he got was a couple of hours in a dark room. If he team is anything like the ones I played on, he's going to get some Code Red treatment from his teammates, and he's earned it.

Collier11

12/30/2009, 11:44 PM

and that one buddy is the only opinion getting airtime, disgusting

Petro-Sooner

12/30/2009, 11:46 PM

What a *****. Man up.

Mob mob mob mob mob

MOB

Sooner Eclipse

12/30/2009, 11:48 PM

prrriiide

12/30/2009, 11:48 PM

ok legal geeks,
can Leach sue espn for ..... oh, I dont know....impuning his character....or ...
reporting "locked" in a "shed".........
Id love to see espn pay out about a billion to the Pirate.

Proving libel against a media giant like Der Mouse is a pretty tall order. He would have to prove that the company knowingly and with malice reported falsehoods damaging to himself or his reputation. Now, he would have a much easier time of proving it against Craig James personally if he says anything that can be proved false and malicious.

What he can do to ESPiN is to show in an equally public manner the bias and lack of journalistic integrity they have displayed.

But since Leach has a J.D. of his own and competent legal counsel, he will know which battles to join and which to leave the field.

Leroy Lizard

12/30/2009, 11:50 PM

The way I understand it is your kid has to sign a release for the university to give a parent information on a student that is 18 yrs or older.

Where I currently teach, that release only indicates that the university cannot be considered in breach of confidence if they release information to you. It doesn't compel them to. And it only pertains to academic records, not matters of discipline.

"........Adam James, son of espn analyst Craig James....."

If they didn't disclose that Adam was the son of James the complaints would be even greater.

OUinFLA

12/30/2009, 11:51 PM

I hope Tech is forced to pay Leach all his money. .

Im guessing that amount and about a gazillion bucks in damages.
may have to sell their stadium

TJKDone

12/30/2009, 11:53 PM

Leach acted like an @ss and forgot who
signed his check.

I know this may cause you to augment your post Fan, but IMO, you have nailed it.

Pride makes the most intelligent people do very, very dumb things.

Hook'em

AlbqSooner

12/30/2009, 11:54 PM

Was there anything mentioned about insubordination?
That word was not mentioned. If it had been I would also have mentioned it. Go find the link and read it.

This is what I find surprising. Why wouldn't it be the athletic director's decision? I was not aware that a mere coach would be the one that decided on whether an athlete under scholarship could transfer. Strange.

Strange to you, but it was his position prior to Adam James.

I would tend to agree if there was a dispute on what took place. But there doesn't appear to be any. Both sides agree on what happened. So I guess the question becomes, "Was the punishment beyond what should be administered?"
The question is, and will continue to be, whether TTech had cause to fire him under the rather clear terms of the contract that both parties signed
Or, was the firing done just to save the university money? If so, I don't see how the testimony of former players will play a role.
On this you are somewhat defensible. The TTech attorneys will no doubt argue that the testimony of the former athletes is irrelevant. I suggest that the judge will find it relevant to show that in this instance Leach acted with the best interest of James in mind. Following his Dr.'s suggestion that he not be subjected to light. Further it is relevant to show that Leach was acting in accordance with a pattern or practice that has become routine; Disciplining athletes in manners that are NOT injurious

I doubt this episode will have any long-term effect on Adam's employment.

Again, we disagree.

Piware

12/30/2009, 11:57 PM

short answer, no because Leach is a public figure and they are just reporting the news.

Isn't there a difference between reporting the news and creating the news?

Looks to me like Craig "We didn't want this" James created the situation and now plays the innocent. Looks to me like he and the Mrs. knew exactly what they were doing when they started this travesty so I am having trouble feeling sorry for them. As it turns out, sonny boy is probably finished in college football and Mike is going to make a LOT of money.

olevetonahill

12/30/2009, 11:58 PM

[QUOTE=Leroy Lizard;2801883]Where I currently teach,
/QUOTE]

I hope and Pray My Grand children never attend yer class
Or should I say "LACK OF "

Sooner Eclipse

12/30/2009, 11:58 PM

I know this may cause you to augment your post Fan, but IMO, you have nailed it.

Pride makes the most intelligent people do very, very dumb things.

Hook'em

Fan, LL,

The fact that your opinions in this matter line up so well with the whoren should tell you all you need to know. Give up now. :pop:

BoulderSooner79

12/31/2009, 12:00 AM

Wow! over 600 posts and it's not even our team. :)

olevetonahill

12/31/2009, 12:01 AM

Again, we disagree.

I admire you bro .
But its a losing Battle :D

SoonerBacker

12/31/2009, 12:04 AM

I keep reading posts by certain parties that there does not appear to be any dispute about what happened and that both sides agree on what transpired.
I disagree. The video I posted earlier seems to indicate that there are some major disputes about what happened.

Here it is again, just in case you missed it the first time:
From KCBD in Lubbock:
http://www.kcbd.com/global/video/fla...& rnd=8696014

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 12:04 AM

Those of you who have know that sometimes on teams you have a player who's just a bitch. A whiny, entitled little pansy, too lazy to go hard through monkey drills, wind sprints, full-pad kickouts, and all of the other grueling and painful work it takes to play ball.

I would probably tell the player to either improve his work ethic and attitude or I will throw him off the team. And I am certainly going to tell him that he is not going to see an inch of the field with his attitude. "So if you want to come here and practice for the Hell of it, fine. But you're standing on the sidelines and watching others play the game and you're not traveling with the team."

I just don't see how making him stand in a dark room really solves anything. It's just not the best way to handle the situation, at least to me.

85sooners

12/31/2009, 12:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Q_5nYwWLU&feature=player_embedded

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 12:09 AM

I keep reading posts by certain parties that there does not appear to be any dispute about what happened and that both sides agree on what transpired.

Actually, the Chancellor said that Leach didn't dispute James' allegations.

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 12:10 AM

But its a losing Battle

Why don't you make up a generic "You can't argue with LL" so that you can copy and paste it about every sixth post or so?

unbiasedtruth

12/31/2009, 12:10 AM

no idea if this has been posted yet, but apparently Adam James took cellphone video of himself in this shed.

dZqvajnhZDU

what TERRIBLE conditions! How did he survive that?! seriously, what a freakin baby. I hope Tech is forced to pay Leach all his money. It sounds as if everyone on the team hated this kid except for his one buddy who is talking trash about Leach on ESPN.

and I thought ML didnt allow cell phones at practice, and was against players using twitter.

as far as the video is concerned, he could have found an electrical closet and filmed that at anytime. I did not see him film the trainer or assistant that were supposedly in the electrical closet with him as both parties have stated.....

spoiled little brat that didnt like his coaches and he used his daddy and daddy's employer to get his way..... again I hope this take CJ off ESPN. He is the only person that I know of that has brought down 2 successful football programs....

Piware

12/31/2009, 12:13 AM

Evidently CJ already has some detractors. If you are on Facebook, search for Fire Craig James. His own personal group of haters.

Petro-Sooner

12/31/2009, 12:14 AM

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 12:17 AM

Like I didnt know a belt to my *** would tell me to straighten up and fly right.

For the record, I don't think spanking players is appropriate either.

recemp

12/31/2009, 12:21 AM

I bet that it is all going to come down to who had a "fat, little girlfriend" that Leach insulted

olevetonahill

12/31/2009, 12:22 AM

Why don't you make up a generic "You can't argue with LL" so that you can copy and paste it about every sixth post or so?

Cause we Can and DO argue with you
Ya just to dumb to listen .:rolleyes:

olevetonahill

12/31/2009, 12:25 AM

I bet that it is all going to come down to who had a "fat, little girlfriend" that Leach insulted

CJs Future DIL maybe ?:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

SoonerBacker

12/31/2009, 12:26 AM

Actually, the Chancellor said that Leach didn't dispute James' allegations.

And Leach's lawyer says they do. Yet another issue on which they seem to have major disagreement. Did you even watch the video that ran on KCBD?

olevetonahill

12/31/2009, 12:26 AM

For the record, I don't think spanking players is appropriate either.

Dr. Spock ? Is this you ?:eek:

olevetonahill

12/31/2009, 12:28 AM

And Leach's lawyer says they do. Yet another issue on which they seem to have major disagreement. Did you even watch the video that ran on KCBD?

Hell no he didn't
It runs contrary to his Opinion :rolleyes:

prrriiide

12/31/2009, 12:33 AM

Interesting take on si.com...

Legal showdown between Leach, Texas Tech may just be starting

Michael McCann>SPORTS LAW

Was Texas Tech legally entitled to fire Leach for cause? Leach's contract lists the circumstances under which Texas Tech could dismiss him for cause:

1) The commission of a major NCAA violation or an excessive accumulation of secondary violations by Leach.

2) Knowingly condoning NCAA violations by any staff member under his direct control.

3) Failure to take appropriate disciplinary action against any staff member committing NCAA violations.

4) Failure to take appropriate disciplinary action against football student-athletes.

5) Indictment for a felony criminal act.

6) A misdemeanor involving moral turpitude.

Worded literally, the six circumstances for cause might not cover Leach's alleged misbehavior. Leach has neither been charged with a felony nor a misdemeanor (Nos. 5 and 6), nor is there any indication that he will be. Even if Leach is eventually sued by James in a civil claim, such as for false imprisonment or intentional infliction of emotional distress, such a claim would not constitute a criminal charge. There is also no indication that Leach failed to take appropriate disciplinary action against football players in this situation (No. 4). Similarly, there are no allegations of major NCAA violations or accumulation of secondary violations (No. 1).

An arguable nexus between James' behavior and the "for cause" stipulations could emerge in Nos. 2 and 3. The NCAA has developed player safety rules that Leach arguably breached when he instructed staff members to isolate Leach. The NCAA is also considering new rules that would demand particularly safe care for players who have suffered concussions.

With many disputed facts as to what happened, however, Leach could maintain that it was at best premature for Texas Tech to fire him for cause. Leach might also argue that his firing reflects wrongful retribution because it occurred right before he sought to protect his legal rights in the form of a temporary restraining order.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/michael_mccann/12/30/leach.texas.tech/index.html

Note that insubordination is not listed as a firable offense.

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 12:35 AM

And Leach's lawyer says they do. Yet another issue on which they seem to have major disagreement. Did you even watch the video that ran on KCBD?

Yes. There is a dispute among the public about the type of facility that Adam was sent to, but I doubt there is any dispute among Leach, James, and the university. The Chancellor said that Leach didn't dispute the facts, but Leach simply felt that he did no wrong.

TMcGee86

12/31/2009, 12:36 AM

and I thought ML didnt allow cell phones at practice, and was against players using twitter.

as far as the video is concerned, he could have found an electrical closet and filmed that at anytime. I did not see him film the trainer or assistant that were supposedly in the electrical closet with him as both parties have stated.....

spoiled little brat that didnt like his coaches and he used his daddy and daddy's employer to get his way..... again I hope this take CJ off ESPN. He is the only person that I know of that has brought down 2 successful football programs....

yeah that thing stinks to high heaven. How does he have a cell phone at practice?

And I thought by his own admission someone was "guarding" him making sure he couldn't sit down. Where was this "guard"?

That reeks of he went back and took a video later so that he could blow this thing out of proportion. I just can't see Leach lying about this when he would know that the entire team woudl be able to discredit his story if it were not true.

Not saying it can't happen, just seems highly unlikely.

prrriiide

12/31/2009, 12:41 AM

yeah that thing stinks to high heaven. How does he have a cell phone at practice?

Oh, you big silly. He hid it in his jockstrap. Since he apparently has no balls there was probably plenty of room...

TMcGee86

12/31/2009, 12:42 AM

An arguable nexus between James' behavior and the "for cause" stipulations could emerge in Nos. 2 and 3. The NCAA has developed player safety rules that Leach arguably breached when he instructed staff members to isolate Leach. The NCAA is also considering new rules that would demand particularly safe care for players who have suffered concussions.

This is such horse ****. First what danger was the kid in because of "isolation".

And second what pray tell would be this "particuarly safe care for players who have suffered concussions?"

The kid was very obviosuly cleared to attend practice. I have yet to see any side dispute this and the fact that he was out there is all you need to know. If he is cleared to attend practice, then how exactly is it "unsafe" to give him shelter and darkness which by his own admission he needed.

Tech is going to **** themselves if they try and spin this as Leach putting sweet baby james in danger. Leach can pounce all over that and say that not only was he not in danger but he put him in a safer environment after hearing the kid complain about sunlight.

They are better off sticking with the humiliation issue. To me, that is their only avenue for attack. And it's weak as hell considering his rules for injured players.

SoonerBacker

12/31/2009, 12:47 AM

Yes. There is a dispute among the public about the type of facility that Adam was sent to, but I doubt there is any dispute among Leach, James, and the university. The Chancellor said that Leach didn't dispute the facts, but Leach simply felt that he did no wrong.

No, the lawyer says clearly in the interview posted that there are major disagreements. This is NOT just in the public discussions. You're taking the Chancellor's words as fact and ignoring the statements of Leach's lawyer.
I guess this proves Vet's repeated warnings about arguing with you.

Aufwiedersehen.

UTgolfer

12/31/2009, 12:49 AM

Anyone know the timeline of when James got his concussion and the 2 incidents in the shed or electrical closet or whatever it is?

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 12:51 AM

No, the lawyer says clearly in the interview posted that there are major disagreements. This is NOT just in the public discussions. You're taking the Chancellor's words as fact and ignoring the statements of Leach's lawyer.

How is that any different from taking the lawyer's word for it and ignoring the chancellor's? :)

By now, I am sure they have all toured the facility in question. In fact, it was probably the first thing they did. I would certainly want to if I was involved. Wouldn't you?

bluedogok

12/31/2009, 12:55 AM

I had a son who played against Adam "the spoiled brat" James, he had NO D1 sholly offers coming out of school, Daddy Craig talked Leach into giving him a Gray shirt . Ive been around Daddy Bomar and ill tell you that Craig James is a hell of alot worse,
Sounds like the perfect place for Adam James is North Texas, after all his years at Southlake Carroll it seems that Todd Dodge has had more than enough experience dealing with prima donnas and helicopter parents.

Actually, I think their comments were spot on. And the Chancellor pretty summed the problem: They wanted to smooth things over and Leach wouldn't cooperate.

ESPN didn't get Leach fired. I think that is pretty clear.

Leach acted like an @ss and forgot who
signed his check.
Well, Knight did more than Leach did including having a very public argument with the former Chancellor and didn't get fired because the AD was his buddy. If Myers didn't already want Leach's head on a platter he would still be the coach and no one would have never heard a thing about this incident. For the Tech administration Adam and Craig James were just pawns in their end game. I don't know why they just didn't renew his contract last year and let him out of it instead of getting butt-hurt about supposed flirtations with other programs.

ESPN - Knight reprimanded for spat with chancellor (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1726218)

Actually this is precisely the reason that he shouldn't apologize.

As a lawyer he knows that apologizing for something that he feels wasn't wrong could be viewed as an admission of guilt.

I don't blame him at all. If it came up later in contract or firing negotiations the first thing the board would say would be "why did you apologize if you felt you did nothing wrong."

There are never any instances you should apologize if you feel you are not in the wrong.
This is EXACTLY the reason why you don't "apologize" in a potential legal situation like that.

Blues1

12/31/2009, 12:58 AM

And THE BEAT goes On ~~~~ LINK

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/316254-mike-leach-to-courtespns-craig-james-unhappy-with-sons-playing-time

sooneredaco

12/31/2009, 01:01 AM

Seriously LL, your an educated guy (you remind us over and over of such)..... Are you choosing to act oblivious or are suffering from temporary insanity. Bro you make absolutely no sense. Evidence of such is that the only person that remotely agrees with anything your posting is.... well you. Come on man your smarter than this aren't you? Or are you choosing to be as blind to this whole situation as espin? You are hearing the words of one guy and taking that as fact, and choosing to completely disregard the real fact that there is another side to this whole mess.

UTgolfer

12/31/2009, 01:03 AM

This is such horse ****. First what danger was the kid in because of "isolation". .

Doesn't matter the level of danger that fans argue he may or may not have been in...if its against NCAA rules to "isolate" players then thats all the cause that Hance needs.

As for him being at practice, I believe he attended but did not participate due to his concussion which is why the timing here is important. I read or heard that he is required to attend all practices but when he showed up with sunglasses on, as directed by doctors, Leach went off and "isolated" him.

James sounds like a whiny kid who didn't exactly have a lot of friends on the team. But Leach appears to have stepped over the line here with a kid who was in fact injured. Sounds like this may have been the straw that broke the camel's back regarding his relationship with James. But Leach should have choked down some of his pride, apologized to the kid, and moved on.

And I agree that ESPN seems to be going out of its way to bolster James' side of this dispute which is far from over.

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 01:13 AM

You are hearing the words of one guy and taking that as fact, and choosing to completely disregard the real fact that there is another side to this whole mess.

The chancellor is not just a "guy." Not only was he the top official directly involved in the situation, but he has never been anti-Leach. And he pretty much verified what I had been saying all along. Besides, when I heard him speak it hardly sounded like he was a wishy-washy lawyer type trying to weasel out of a situation.

Mostly what has happened here is the result of a mob mentality to protect a former OU assistant against the claims of the son of a hated tv personality. I'm not sure what really happened, but I find it hard to believe that a coach who has won as much as Leach has such a difficult time getting along with the higher ups in the university.

I'm not defending Adam, who appears to be self-centered and lazy.

I'm not defending CJ, for I have stated many times he should never have become involved in the first place.

But to say that Mike Leach is an angel in this is hard to swallow. The chancellor said himself that Leach was extraordinarily difficult to work with. In fact, he said he had never had such problems trying to get someone to cooperate. And he sounded pretty believable when he said it.

There are two sides to the story, and no one is looking at the other side because we have this preconceived notion that Leach can do no wrong. In my opinion, if you win like Leach you should be able to get along with your administrators. And if you can't, then maybe there is something wrong with your approach. And the chancellor pretty much said that is exactly what has been the problem.

sooneredaco

12/31/2009, 01:13 AM

Doesn't matter the level of danger that fans argue he may or may not have been in...if its against NCAA rules to "isolate" players then thats all the cause that Hance needs.

As for him being at practice, I believe he attended but did not participate due to his concussion which is why the timing here is important. I read or heard that he is required to attend all practices but when he showed up with sunglasses on, as directed by doctors, Leach went off and "isolated" him.

James sounds like a whiny kid who didn't exactly have a lot of friends on the team. But Leach appears to have stepped over the line here with a kid who was in fact injured. Sounds like this may have been the straw that broke the camel's back regarding his relationship with James. But Leach should have choked down some of his pride, apologized to the kid, and move on.

Leach made the right choice. Now he'll get a massive payday, get a coaching job where his ability to build a solid football team is welcomed and treated with the respect it deserves, and the best thing is that he gets to get the Hell of nasty *** Lubock! Even as a Texas guy you havto admit that's not a bad deal

UTgolfer

12/31/2009, 01:18 AM

Leach made the right choice.

Leaving Lubbock...you bet! But as for the rest if the end result of this whole mess is anything but a full exhoneration of Leach then he becomes toxic in the eyes of a lot of AD's and Presidents and who wants to hire a future liability. The only reason Knight went there was because he had a personal relationship with Meyers...who else was looking to hire him after the way he got booted from Indiana?

SoonerLB

12/31/2009, 01:20 AM

Oh, you big silly. He hid it in his jockstrap. Since he apparently has no balls there was probably plenty of room...

I would like to enter this as evidence your honor. ;)

prrriiide

12/31/2009, 02:16 AM

Doesn't matter the level of danger that fans argue he may or may not have been in...if its against NCAA rules to "isolate" players then thats all the cause that Hance needs.

Just did a quick once-over of the NCAA bylaws and didn't find anything regarding treatment of athletes. I'm sure there is something somewhere, but I didn't see it in the official rule book.

However, I did find some literature regarding post-traumatic migraine headaches. These headaches typically follow a mild to severe concussion and indicate that the brain has not sufficiently healed enough to engage in contact activity. Engaging in contact activity before the brain has sufficiently healed is the leading cause of concussion-related death. Leach knows this, because it is spelled out in the NCAA's medical handbook.

Anyone that has had a migraine knows that one of the best treatments is to relax in a cool, dark, quiet place. vAJ's complaint that the light was hurting his eyes is entirely consistent with post-traumatic migraine. Leach's isolation of James under those circumstances was exactly the right thing to do. Had he allowed vAJ to participate in a practice, and vAJ had received even a minor blow to the head (like a well-thrown football), it could have been fatal. Craig James should be singing Leach's praises for being proactive in protecting vAJ from a possibly fatal injury.

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 02:31 AM

Anyone that has had a migraine knows that one of the best treatments is to relax in a cool, dark, quiet place. vAJ's complaint that the light was hurting his eyes is entirely consistent with post-traumatic migraine. Leach's isolation of James under those circumstances was exactly the right thing to do. Had he allowed vAJ to participate in a practice, and vAJ had received even a minor blow to the head (like a well-thrown football), it could have been fatal. Craig James should be singing Leach's praises for being proactive in protecting vAJ from a possibly fatal injury.

I don't think James is painting such a rosy picture of what happened. From what I can tell, he is claiming that Leach was upset at him for slacking (that is, not practicing or wearing sunglasses, or both) and isolated him in the room as punishment.

It makes a big difference. I'm not sure which one to believe.

prrriiide

12/31/2009, 03:20 AM

I don't think James is painting such a rosy picture of what happened. From what I can tell, he is claiming that Leach was upset at him for slacking (that is, not practicing or wearing sunglasses, or both) and isolated him in the room as punishment.

It makes a big difference. I'm not sure which one to believe.

Well, I doubt Leach is dumb enough to risk the personal libility of practicing a player that is exhibiting signs of post-traumatic migraine, about which the NCAA has been VERY proactive in educating coaches. That pesky law degree of his...

And the NCAA medical handbook specifies which sunglasses are acceptable and which aren't. If vAJ was wearing eyewear that does not conform to NCAA guidelines, and vAJ incurs an eye injury as a result of being allowed to practice in said non-conforming eyewear, Leach is again liable along with any other staff that did not require the removal of said eyewear.

I'm not sure what James' agenda is, but it is becoming increasingly clear that there is an agenda. Published reports state that Daddy James was badgering Leach for more playing time for Baby James, when BOTH of the coaches that have coached WRs at Tech since Baby J came on the scene have said that he isn't even D-1 material and shouldn't have gotten a scholly to start with. This is looking more and more like a personal vendetta between James and Leach. That the circumstances allowed the furtherance of the personal vendetta between Meyers, Sowell et al and Leach is purely a fortunate coincidence for the PTB at Tech.

This boils down to the fact that there are enormous egos at work here, and Leach's isn't even in the top 3.

I stand by my prediction: Leach walks away from this 8 figures richer and completely exonerated.

Crucifax Autumn

12/31/2009, 03:39 AM

http://www.aintitcool.com/images2009/gigantor.jpg

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 04:01 AM

Well, I doubt Leach is dumb enough to risk the personal libility of practicing a player that is exhibiting signs of post-traumatic migraine, about which the NCAA has been VERY proactive in educating coaches. That pesky law degree of his...

I would tend to agree... but the fact that the player was forced to stand the entire time (which I don't think has been disputed) indicates that Leach was not merely protecting the player's health. Forcing the player to stand makes this look more like punishment in the form of humiliation, which then changes everything.

And the chancellor is a pretty smart guy too. Why is he advocating the firing of a coach if the coach did nothing wrong?

I'm not sure what James' agenda is, but it is becoming increasingly clear that there is an agenda. Published reports state that Daddy James was badgering Leach for more playing time for Baby James, when BOTH of the coaches that have coached WRs at Tech since Baby J came on the scene have said that he isn't even D-1 material and shouldn't have gotten a scholly to start with.

Then why did he? And why is this even relevant?

I don't doubt there was animosity between CJ, AJ, and Leach. But this can cut both ways. Leach may have overreacted to AJ's injury because of his feelings against the player and dad, and instituted an unnecessary punishment as a result.

I think that Leach simply placed AJ in solitary confinement to teach him a lesson and that it backfired. When called on it, he dug in his heels and gave those that wanted him out a perfect excuse for firing him.

ashley

12/31/2009, 07:52 AM

I like leach but he was dumb for costing himself, TT and the jobs of his coaches. When you have a boss and your are asked to do something that is not unethical or immoral you have to do it or pay the consequences.

SoonerBacker

12/31/2009, 08:41 AM

How is that any different from taking the lawyer's word for it and ignoring the chancellor's? :)

By now, I am sure they have all toured the facility in question. In fact, it was probably the first thing they did. I would certainly want to if I was involved. Wouldn't you?

Because the lawyer is filing a lawsuit! If they all agreed on the issues involved, there would probably be no grounds for a lawsuit. The video shows that there is more disagreement than just over what type of building James was placed in. You obviously have refused to even look at the interview with the lawyer. Therefore, you don't know wtf you're talking about.

In addition, I am NOT ignoring the comments made by the Chancellor. I am simply stating that the lawyer's interview indicates that there IS a disagreement, despite what the Chancellor has said. You are too thick headed to even consider the evidence presented in said interview.

As to whether everyone had "toured the facility in question," that would depend on whether I already had my mind made up and was just looking for an excuse to fire the coach.

Crucifax Autumn

12/31/2009, 08:46 AM

I heard a rumor we have a game today...

AlbqSooner

12/31/2009, 09:15 AM

Then why did he? And why is this even relevant?

Leach offered him a scholly as a favor to daddy. Leach felt the kid had potential was well. If you had read the myriad linked articles (read: gathered facts) you would know this.

Marcus Dupree had potential out the ying yang, but he had an attitude and exhibited a laziness that was disruptive to the overall morale of the Sooners. According to his position coaches, Adam had an attitude and exhibited a laziness that was disruptive to the overall morale of the Red Raiders (See linked articles)

Switzer tried in many ways to movitate and change the attitude of Dupree. When it became clear that Switzer was unable to engender that change, he booted Dupree from the team. Apparently, before Leach gave up on this whiny little prima donna completely, TTech fired Leach.

THAT is why Leach offered him a scholly despite coaches telling him the littel beotch was not and would not become DI material.

12/31/2009, 09:17 AM

I once pulled a Mangino.

Din't 'fect me nun.

AlbqSooner

12/31/2009, 09:22 AM

The Chancellor takes a position with regard to these issues. Leach and his attorneys take another position which is inconsistent with that of the Chancellor. To most functioning minds that constitutes a "disagreement".

You read the Chancellor's statement and say there is no disagreement as to the facts. When someone points out that the Coach and Attorney do not agree with the Chancellor, you attack that poster as only accepting one version of the facts. Regardless of which position you or others choose to accept, there IS disagreement as to the evidence. The fact that this thread has reached nearly 650 posts is evidence of disagreement among the observers.

Given LLs prediliction to arguing with whatever is posted I suggest that everyone STOP POSTING in this thread. That way we can witness the Lizard arguing with himself. I assure you he will not let this die.

AlbqSooner

12/31/2009, 09:23 AM

I once pulled a Mangino.

Din't 'fect me nun.

Hijacked a Twinkie Truck?

TUSooner

12/31/2009, 09:37 AM

I would probably tell the player to either improve his work ethic and attitude or I will throw him off the team. And I am certainly going to tell him that he is not going to see an inch of the field with his attitude. "So if you want to come here and practice for the Hell of it, fine. But you're standing on the sidelines and watching others play the game and you're not traveling with the team."

I just don't see how making him stand in a dark room really solves anything. It's just not the best way to handle the situation, at least to me.

Your opinion. OK. But as you noted earlier, the issue, or at least a crucial issue, will be whether making the guy stand guy in a dark room for a couple of hours without any other deprivations created an unreasonable risk of danger to him. (And I use "unreasonable" not in any legalistic sense; I'm not sure what the exact standard will be in court.*) All of the evidence available so far, including a doctor's opinion and Little Adam's phone video strongly indicates that there was no danger. The guy was punished and he cried about it. I doubt a judge or jury is going to be too swayed by sanctimonious (I love that word) handwringing without more. But I hear juries can be weird.

Tt may have had good "reason" for firing Leach, but as far as I can see, they did not have "cause", or if they did, this overblown BS with Adam and Craig James ain't it.

So I have done my bit with flogging this dead horse, :O but I have one more question:

HEY LAWYERS: Under what standard do you think a state court would review a Leach's acts of discipline? I'm pretty sure no thoughtful judge would want the courts to suddenly become arbiters of everyday coaching decisions. I expect that if the case ever gets to a judge, the standard will be fairly deferential to the coach and that Tt will have to show much more than mental anguish or merely some speculative possibility of harm.

sooner518

12/31/2009, 09:41 AM

I would tend to agree... but the fact that the player was forced to stand the entire time (which I don't think has been disputed) .

there are two chairs in the background of the video AJ took of himself in the "shed".......

bluedogok

12/31/2009, 09:51 AM

Who knew "standing" for two hours constituted "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 20-something :rolleyes:

Isn't that what they whine about older fans not doing for the duration of a 3+ hour game.

Crucifax Autumn

12/31/2009, 09:54 AM

Who knew "standing" for two hours constituted "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 20-something :rolleyes:

Isn't that what they whine about older fans not doing for the duration of a 3+ hour game.

He better get his degree then. Retail and fast food jobs require a lot more standing.

Blues1

12/31/2009, 10:04 AM

My Last Post on this fiasco ...... :)

http://www.cbssports.com/video/player/play/collegefootball/zhjQQPK6jyHCe_th4JkXZ_C1ICZqJBdU?source=videobox_c ollegefootball

Lets Score 60 + today...!!!

Blues1

12/31/2009, 10:53 AM

From MSN Sports --

Leach leaves Lubbock swinging
Posted by John Taylor on December 30, 2009 9:48 PM ET

Earlier this evening, Texas Tech released a statement officially announcing they had terminated head coach Mike Leach.

Tonight, the terminated head coach released his own statement acknowledging said termination.

And, in much the same fashion as he's done throughout his career as the Red Raiders' coach, he didn't leave many incisor marks on his tongue on the way out. Here's his statement, in its entirety:

"I want everyone to know what a privilege and pleasure it has been to teach and coach more than 400 student-athletes at Texas Tech University over the past 10 years. When I arrived at Texas Tech, the football program was on NCAA probation and the graduation rate was far below the national average. However, in the past 10 years, Tech has been to 10 straight bowl games, has the third best record in the Big 12 Conference, and has the highest graduation rate for football players of any public institution in the country.

"Over the past several months, there have been individuals in the Texas Tech administration, Board of Regents and booster groups who have dealt in lies, and continue to do so. These lies have led to my firing this morning. I steadfastly refuse to deal in any lies, and am disappointed that I have not been afforded the opportunity for the truth to be known. Texas Tech's decision to deal in lies and fabricate a story which led to my firing, includes, but is not limited by, the animosity remaining from last year's contract negotiations. I will not tolerate such retaliatory action; additionally, we will pursue all available legal remedies.

"These actions taken by Texas Tech have severely damaged my reputation and public image. In addition, Texas Tech has caused harm to not only my family, but to the entire Red Raider nation and the sport of college football.

"As you know, I prefer to engage in question and answer sessions; however, in this instance my counsel has advised me to simply make a statement. There will be time to answer questions about this issue in the future, but the serious legal nature of this situation prevents me from going into further detail at this time."

OK On to The Sun Bowl ~~~~ :)

swardboy

12/31/2009, 10:59 AM

Aargh!!!!!!!

IronHorseSooner

12/31/2009, 11:01 AM

Me thinks that Tech messed with the wrong pirate! As another poster wrote, this is Texas football at its finest. Insert smoke-filled rooms, money, and "the good-ol'-boy system', and voila, this is what you have. Tech deserves to fall to bowels of the Big XII, below Baylor, A&M, ISU, and CU for this mockery!

RFH Shakes

12/31/2009, 11:26 AM

Go get 'em Mike!

mightysooner

12/31/2009, 11:39 AM

Rip em a new one coach. We got yer back!

BoulderSooner79

12/31/2009, 11:44 AM

Note he said "past several months". Don't be fooled; this Adam James thing is just an excuse. I can't wait to hear the real story from the Leach camp.

starrca23

12/31/2009, 11:47 AM

I agree. The same people that hire Bob Knight find this too bad to deal with....sure,

soonerloyal

12/31/2009, 12:03 PM

Nail 'em to the wall, Leach! I hope you wind up with far more than the 800K they think they "saved".

swardboy

12/31/2009, 12:18 PM

An aside: What ages are Leach's children? I would imagine the Lubbock school system is the last place they'd want them enrolled after New Year's.....

85sooners

12/31/2009, 12:19 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Q_5nYwWLU&feature=player_embedded

Crimsontothecore

12/31/2009, 12:26 PM

An aside: What ages are Leach's children? I would imagine the Lubbock school system is the last place they'd want them enrolled after New Year's.....
Actually, I think it would be the kids of the tech administrators who might find school in Lubbock a bit stressful now.

SoonerBacker

12/31/2009, 12:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iu9VJwpddA

Jello Biafra

12/31/2009, 12:38 PM

tech screwed the pooch for all the points leech made in his statement. noone worth a crap wanted to coach at that place in the past and it will be much of the same now that leech is gone.

after leech is done with them, there will be a good chance they won't have the money to shell out for a real coach anyway... baylor has been replaced by tech lol...

defamation of character is not something you want to smack a LAWYER around with. you will get bitten.

VA Sooner

12/31/2009, 12:56 PM

Knocking out your coach right before the bowl game... I'd be nervous if I were Tech's administration as well. Should have been handled much differently... internally first and after the bowl game. Would have kept the heat of the Red Raider fan base at bay if this was taken care of during the off-season.

Methinks the reason this took place so quickly instead of waiting until after this weekend was the money. Money saved now may cost them dearly depending on what transpires.

But the Red Raider Nation is the one that pays in the end... quagmire the week of the bowl game and much unsettled business. Does not bode well... and if Texas Tech loses this Saturday... ugliness for all.

No one wins.

soonerloyal

12/31/2009, 12:57 PM

You know who else I feel badly for? The players who care for and respect Leach, who will now have a helluva time...not just in their Bowl game, but next season. Those young men don't deserve to be in the position they have been kicked into.

It's for them that I hesitate to hope that Tech loses their Bowl game, and every other game, for the next decade-plus. *sigh* But for the program and the Admin? Bite it.

Partial Qualifier

12/31/2009, 01:27 PM

tech screwed the pooch for all the points leech made in his statement. noone worth a crap wanted to coach at that place in the past and it will be much of the same now that leech is gone.

It may even be worse than before. Fired the day before a contractual bonus was to be paid??

"Here's your shiny new contract. Just remember, we retain the privilege of firing you the day before any payouts are due."

Regardless of everything else, Leach was propping up that administration's image. These were the same people who gave refuge to Bobby Knight and condoned his ongoing behavior problems.

I hope they get a schmuck like Tuberville. Whoever they get, they'll all soon realize what a great coach they had in Leach.

VA Sooner

12/31/2009, 01:46 PM

TexasLidig8r

12/31/2009, 01:58 PM

defamation of character is not something you want to smack a LAWYER around with. you will get bitten.

We have no character.

Sand Aggy is going to be spending a lot of money in paying a settlement of the impending lawsuit...

Let's say... oh.. $7million... but with non-disparagement clauses and a provision that Leach can't coach in the Big 12 for 5 years.

It's gonna get ugly...

And what fun to be a part of that fight!!

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 04:25 PM

Your opinion. OK. But as you noted earlier, the issue, or at least a crucial issue, will be whether making the guy stand guy in a dark room for a couple of hours without any other deprivations created an unreasonable risk of danger to him.

I don't think that's the issue. I think the school and Leach are arguing over whether confining Leach to the room was meant as punishment by humiliation or as a safety measure on account of Adam's concussion.

You read the Chancellor's statement and say there is no disagreement as to the facts. When someone points out that the Coach and Attorney do not agree with the Chancellor, you attack that poster as only accepting one version of the facts.

I don't think I have attached anyone in this thread.

Who knew "standing" for two hours constituted "cruel and unusual punishment" for a 20-something

That isn't the issue I was discussing: Forcing the player to stand indicates that the confinement was meant as punishment, not as a safety measure. That's all.

Don't be fooled; this Adam James thing is just an excuse.

I agree. But as I see it, Leach made it easy for them to use the Adam James incident as an excuse. With only a couple of days to kill before the contract deadline, I would think Leach would be able to delay the proceedings. Catch the flu, for crying out loud.

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 04:29 PM

It may even be worse than before. Fired the day before a contractual bonus was to be paid??

This is what's going to get them into trouble. You have a player complaint about mistreatment a few days before a bowl game. You should first ensure that the player is taken out of harm's way, then you schedule meetings after the bowl game has taken place.

The fact that the Tech administration jumped on this as soon as they did indicates that the contractual deadline was on their mind, and I think a jury will agree.

Soonerfan88

12/31/2009, 09:58 PM

Ok, we won our bowl game, Landry & gang played well and I'm giddy enough to start this argument again. :D

Who cares if being forced to stand was punishment? No one contests that just days before he had to run the stairs as punishment so what makes this different? Because he had a mild concussion? If standing does not cause further harm it's a non-issue. Because he was humiliated? Puuleeezzeee, We've all been put in humiliating positions before but that doesn't mean we were abused or traumatized enough to get someone fired.

The error I think most are making is assuming vAJ (love this moniker) was being punished just because he had a concussion but that was addressed when the story first broke and then ignored. I'm not going to search through all this for the links and just paraphrase from memory.

According to statements made before the team was gagged, vAJ was supposed to be walking the track during practice. Leach has a long established policy that those who can't practice have to be doing something during that time, not just lounging around. Apparently vAJ wasn't walking like he should be, instead just standing around (standing is ok as long as it's not in a room) and BSing. This is why Leach called him a malingerer, not because he was hurt and didn't practice. In the process of being told to get his butt back to walking, he was asked about the sunglasses. Instead of just saying it was doctor's orders, he got mouthy and was therefore sent to the shed.

Next day he was first put in the electrical closet but the buzz was too loud so he was moved to the actual media room. This statement was made by Joe Schad of ESPN during their first reporting of the story so I don't see where vAJ's little video really helps their story.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

12/31/2009, 10:10 PM

Blues1

12/31/2009, 10:20 PM

Interview with Leach at 1AM est on espn tonight --- Is what I heard....

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 10:25 PM

Who cares if being forced to stand was punishment? No one contests that just days before he had to run the stairs as punishment so what makes this different? Because he had a mild concussion?

I think the Jameses are contending that AJ was not simply punished but humiliated. Three things are important:

1. Where exactly was he confined and for how long?
2. Was he forced to stand and why?
3. Was he locked in?

The James family is probably going to say that their son was unfairly singled out because of his concussion and that the coach employed an unusual punishment designed to humiliate him.

Keep in mind that we are not sure that other factors haven't been brought up. If AJ was indeed forced to run stairs after suffering a concussion, that could be a part of this as well.

If standing does not cause further harm it's a non-issue. Because he was humiliated? Puuleeezzeee, We've all been put in humiliating positions before but that doesn't mean we were abused or traumatized enough to get someone fired.

Let me ask you this: Would you allow your boss to lock you in a room with the lights out and force you to stand?

Now, admittedly football is different. But it would be hard to look coworkers in the eye if you allow the boss to treat you like that, especially if it was done in front of everyone else.

I certainly would never get away with treating a student like that. The outrage would be considerable.

I think Leach got fired more for insubordination, not just the treatment of the player. Leach may have been able to keep this a minor incident with just a little cooperation, but refused.

The fact that the Tech administration didn't mention insubordination in their official document could be a real problem for them.

As a coach you have to be careful about treating players like young children. There are just some things you don't do. I'm not sure that Leach crossed the line, but he may well have. This is why coaches should always refrain from employing off-the-cuff, creative punishments. If you're a professional, do what has been established by the profession as acceptable.

Blues1

12/31/2009, 10:28 PM

IF you're in Dark Room and "Alone" - who's stopping you from turning on the Light...??

I thought 99.99% of All Rooms had the Light Switch inside "THe Room" -- It's over there on the wall near the Fu***** Door....!! ~~~ :)

Plus He could see "enough" to take a Video in that dark room - (there's a lot of small buttons you need to Push to take a Video...) ----Plain & Simple ~~ This Kid is FULL of SHiiiiit

Sooner Eclipse

12/31/2009, 10:36 PM

Interview with Leach at 1AM est on espn tonight --- Is what I heard....

ESPiN 2

Soonerfan88

12/31/2009, 10:46 PM

1. Where exactly was he confined and for how long? I don't think anyone is arguing about the shed/garage shown by the tv station but I've heard 3 hrs from the James camp and less than 2 hrs from Leach's lawyer, Liggett. Again, Joe Schad of the James' PR firm ESPN stated he was first put in an "electrical closet" which we'll say is seen in vAJ's video and then moved because of the noise to the media room shown by Liggett. I don't think either side has specified a time frame here.

2. Was he forced to stand and why? I don't know about "forced" but he was told to stand. Why? Because that is part of the policy that all others not practicing have to follow. What is the difference in standing on the sidelines of practice and standing in a room?

3. Was he locked in? The only ones who know this are the trainers monitoring him and vAJ but I seriously doubt it or the police would be involved. If you watch vAJ's video, the door to the "closet" can be unlocked from inside.

Would you allow your boss to lock you in a room with the lights out and force you to stand? First, I don't see myself ever in that situation because I'm not a lazy, whiny bitch like vAJ. Second, if I was actually locked in and had my phone (as vAJ obviously did since he could use it to take a video) I would call 911 because that is a criminal offense. However, nowhere have I seen the James gang or Tech calling the authorities so I think they used that word for sensationalism.

Leroy Lizard

12/31/2009, 11:08 PM

Would you allow your boss to lock you in a room with the lights out and force you to stand? First, I don't see myself ever in that situation because I'm not a lazy, whiny bitch like vAJ.

But here's part of the problem. Many of us are trying to suggest that AJ deserved the treatment.

If the punishment was out of bounds, it was out of bounds. AJ's demeanor doesn't justify it.

Was it out of bounds? I don't know. If the player was forced to stand in a dark room for two to three hours as a means of "teaching him a lesson by making him feel like a fool," that is out of bounds. Unfortunately, no one seems to know for sure what really happened.

Second, if I was actually locked in and had my phone (as vAJ obviously did since he could use it to take a video) I would call 911 because that is a criminal offense.

Now comes another issue: Were the trainers placed in the room to keep him from leaving? That, in essence, is no different than locking him in.

soonerhubs

12/31/2009, 11:23 PM

Leroy, you would argue with a friggen fence post. Eh?

SanDiegoSoonerGal

12/31/2009, 11:25 PM

Let me ask you this: Would you allow your boss to lock you in a room with the lights out and force you to stand?

Now, admittedly football is different. But it would be hard to look coworkers in the eye if you allow the boss to treat you like that, especially if it was done in front of everyone else.

OK, so let me make sure I'm getting this straight.

Allowing your boss to lock you in a room with the lights out and force you to stand = bad, difficult to look coworkers in the eye afterward.

Allowing your boss to force you to apologize when you feel certain you did nothing wrong = good, no problem looking coworkers in the eye afterward.

Right?

Blues1

12/31/2009, 11:27 PM

Read again....

IF you're in Dark Room and "Alone" - who's stopping you from turning on the Light...??

I thought 99.99% of All Rooms had the Light Switch inside "THe Room" -- It's over there on the wall near the Fu***** Door....!! ~~~

Plus He could see "enough" to take a Video in that dark room - (there's a lot of small buttons you need to Push to take a Video...) ----Plain & Simple ~~ This Kid is FULL of SHiiiiit

SanDiegoSoonerGal

12/31/2009, 11:34 PM

12/31/2009, 11:40 PM

At what point after age 5 have you been in a situation you couldn't control? Did it involve a shead and a head coach?

Scott D

1/1/2010, 12:09 AM

I find the coach who first sided with Leach and is now siding with the James' to be the most amusing part of this saga. Someone apparently is desperate to retain their employment in Lubbock.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 12:25 AM

Allowing your boss to force you to apologize when you feel certain you did nothing wrong = good, no problem looking coworkers in the eye afterward.

If you force someone to make a public apology for something they didn't do, that would be more analogous. And that would be completely uncalled for. And you are also misrepresenting what I said earlier about apologies. I was referring to apologizing when you didn't feel you did anything wrong, not apologizing for something you didn't do. There is a difference between the two and if you think hard enough about it you will see it.

In other words, I don't think the administration was asking Leach to lie about what occurred, but to apologize for what really happened, even though Leach felt that he did nothing wrong. It's called smoothing things over.

IF you're in Dark Room and "Alone" - who's stopping you from turning on the Light...??

I think the Jameses are saying that he was not allowed to turn on the light.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 12:28 AM

Leroy, you would argue with a friggen fence post. Eh?

Olevet already prepared a boilerplate statement for you to paste after every one of my posts. I'm sure he will PM it to you upon request.

Scott D

1/1/2010, 12:44 AM

If you force someone to make a public apology for something they didn't do, that would be more analogous. And that would be completely uncalled for. And you are also misrepresenting what I said earlier about apologies. I was referring to apologizing when you didn't feel you did anything wrong, not apologizing for something you didn't do. There is a difference between the two and if you think hard enough about it you will see it.

In other words, I don't think the administration was asking Leach to lie about what occurred, but to apologize for what really happened, even though Leach felt that he did nothing wrong. It's called smoothing things over.

I think the Jameses are saying that he was not allowed to turn on the light.

As someone who has suffered a concussion, only an idiot would want to turn on fluorescent lights when you're obviously having trouble with light in general as a side effect.

Blues1

1/1/2010, 12:49 AM

Quote"--I think the Jameses are saying that he was not allowed to turn on the light."

You Think..? -- If "No one else" is in there -- Who is going to Know IF he turns on the Light...?

The James's need to back track and cover their *** - Their story is full of loop holes..
I'm in my 20's a college student IF I want a light on -- I turn it on - IF I want to stay in the DARK I stay in the Dark - The kid wanted to shoot a 10 sec video - So he did it....Was he Forced to shoot that Video...? - Maybe he Pissed in his pants afraid of the Dark -- Lets throw that in there while we are creating fairy Tales.....

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 01:13 AM

You Think..? -- If "No one else" is in there -- Who is going to Know IF he turns on the Light...?

So why are we even talking about light switches? The light switch does no good if the player is not allowed to flip it on.

I don't know what to make of the video and how it fits in with the James' story. This is all getting very convoluted.

I'm not sure who is at fault here. I really don't. Leach could very well have been wronged, and frankly I think it's starting to look that way as more facts come out. But I think a lot of us really, really, really want Leach to be in the right and really, really, really hate the James family. It's tough to be objective in that situation. I try to play it as fair as possible.

Sooner Eclipse

1/1/2010, 01:18 AM

So why are we even talking about light switches? The light switch does no good if the player is not allowed to flip it on.

I don't know what to make of the video and how it fits in with the James' story. This is all getting very convoluted.

I'm not sure who is at fault here. I really don't. Leach could very well have been wronged, and frankly I think it's starting to look that way as more facts come out. But I think a lot of us really, really, really want Leach to be in the right and really, really, really hate the James family. It's tough to be objective in that situation. I try to play it as fair as possible.

The real issue here is that most peoples crap detector is much more finely honed than your own. Might have something to do with living in the real world instead of acedemic la-la land.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 01:21 AM

Sooner Eclipse

1/1/2010, 01:28 AM

In the real world, you had better be careful how you discipline players, workers, and students. That's the real world. You guys are living in the la-la land of 1960, when players were really nothing more than cattle and the coach could do no wrong.

Dude, he got put in time-out. If that is now being classified as abuse, then you will soon see the end of organized football and probably society in general.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 01:37 AM

Dude, he got put in time-out. If that is now being classified as abuse,...

Again, we' re not sure exactly what happened. That's the problem. But when it comes to a player-against-coach situation, it doesn't matter. The coach is always right and the player is always a ****** for complaining. "My coach used to stick bayonets in our back, so I don't see anything wrong with making them eat their own puke..."

Whatever it was that Adam claimed happened to him, it was certainly enough to light up his dad (a former player). And when he told the Tech administration, it certainly sounded serious enough for them to take action. So it is best to look at it a little longer before making a knee-jerk decision.

And that's all I'm saying.

sooner59

1/1/2010, 01:43 AM

Looks like the athletic trainer has Leach's back. He goes on record contradicting all of Adam James' claims and shedding more light on what "most likely" actually happened.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4787194

Rocker

1/1/2010, 01:46 AM

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231leachblack.pdf

Those emails are interesting

thesnowbishop

1/1/2010, 01:50 AM

To get caught up on the saga--Great read by a Houston writer:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2009/12/mike_leach_espn_tech.php

New York Times piece with a lot more from Leach's perspective:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/01/sports/ncaafootball/01leach.html?ref=sports

The full trainer's piece is also on ESPN, which I won't link because it's referenced in the Times article, but the emails from the Dallas Morning News are a must read.

sooner59

1/1/2010, 02:07 AM

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-09/1231leachblack.pdf

Those emails are interesting

I read that. If Leach can use those in court, it might help him a lot.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 02:07 AM

Well, someone's lying. :D

It has been widely reported that Leach locked Adam James in a closet or a shed after James sustained a concussion at a practice last month. Leach said he only ordered James to be taken “out of the light” and did not know specifically where he had been taken.

If true, then the firing was completely absurd and Leach is entitled to much $$$$.

The thing that bothers me the most was that the Tech administrators did not mention insubordination as a cause for his firing while, at the same time, the chancellor stated very clearly that insubordination was the reason. That changes everything. Couple that with the timing of the firing (why not wait until after the bowl game to clear the matter up?) and I will have to side with Leach on this one.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 02:08 AM

Next question: Why is Leach having such a hard time with the administration given his success? Is this just a personality problem?

meoveryouxinfinity

1/1/2010, 02:11 AM

Again, we' re not sure exactly what happened. That's the problem. But when it comes to a player-against-coach situation, it doesn't matter. The coach is always right and the player is always a ****** for complaining. "My coach used to stick bayonets in our back, so I don't see anything wrong with making them eat their own puke..."

Whatever it was that Adam claimed happened to him, it was certainly enough to light up his dad (a former player). And when he told the Tech administration, it certainly sounded serious enough for them to take action. So it is best to look at it a little longer before making a knee-jerk decision.

And that's all I'm saying.

ulterior motives?
James wasn't getting playing time and wanted to transfer... Tech wasn't winning as much as last year and didn't like Mike Leach not to mention was unhappy with him and didn't want to pay him

meoveryouxinfinity

1/1/2010, 02:15 AM

Next question: Why is Leach having such a hard time with the administration given his success? Is this just a personality problem?
Probably... on both sides though.
He also offended them by shopping around. I mean, it probably wasn't a great relationship before that (why would he be shopping around?) but that had to make it worse.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 02:22 AM

ulterior motives?
James wasn't getting playing time and wanted to transfer... Tech wasn't winning as much as last year and didn't like Mike Leach not to mention was unhappy with him and didn't want to pay him

I think James formed a grudge against the coach that may have caused him to exaggerate in his own mind the injustice placed on him. He relayed this to his dad, possibly exaggerating some more, who took matters into his own hands. Once the situation became pubic, Adam probably had little choice but to stick to his story.

This is why universities are wary of dealing with parents, because they're not necessarily getting the straight scoop. It's second hand information. If Adam had gone to the administration instead, maybe the truth would have come out a lot sooner. (This is assuming that Adam is lying about the incident.)

When confronted with the father's story, Leach may have handled it badly, making it impossible to get to the truth. But not waiting until after the bowl game so that the discussion could play out in a slow, deliberate manner was their mistake.

The Tech administration may not have believed Adam's story but simply chose to use the situation to get rid of Leach. If so, Texas Tech is in need of better administrators. If you don't want to pay Leach X dollars per year, don't contract with him for it.

Rocker

1/1/2010, 02:33 AM

I read that. If Leach can use those in court, it might help him a lot.

I was thinking the same thing

Sooner Eclipse

1/1/2010, 02:41 AM

To get caught up on the saga--Great read by a Houston writer:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2009/12/mike_leach_espn_tech.php

Thats the best read of the bunch - interesting.

Rocker

1/1/2010, 02:44 AM

SoonerLB

1/1/2010, 03:04 AM

Adam James seems to pretty much be a spoiled little brat that has not accomplished very much, other that successfully making a mountain out of a mole hill that is. Just sayin' ......

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 03:25 AM

I think his dad may have made the mountain out of a mole hill, and Adam now has to go along with the ride.

sooner59

1/1/2010, 03:32 AM

I think his dad may have made the mountain out of a mole hill, and Adam now has to go along with the ride.

Mustache ride? :D

TheHumanAlphabet

1/1/2010, 06:18 AM

I think his dad may have made the mountain out of a mole hill, and Adam now has to go along with the ride.

I think his mom started it (according to Houston TV), Dad has to back up wifey...

Rocker

1/1/2010, 08:03 AM

I think his dad may have made the mountain out of a mole hill, and Adam now has to go along with the ride.

Its not going to end good for the James Family. They have created a monster I don't think they had any idea how big this was going to get.

TUSooner

1/1/2010, 08:31 AM

ESPN.com report of Tech's trainer's statement:

Texas Tech head football athletic trainer Steve Pincock said Red Raiders receiver Adam James was placed in a "sports medicine garage" and media room as "big as a two-car garage" while recovering from a concussion, and was monitored by two trainers at all times.

Pincock's account of the incident, given in a statement to representatives of former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach, contradicts James' version of events that led to Leach being fired Wednesday.

James, who is the son of ESPN college football analyst Craig James, sustained a concussion on Dec. 16. He was examined the following day and told not to practice because of the injury and an elevated heart rate.

Pincock's statement was obtained by ESPN.com on Thursday night from Leach's representatives. Pincock refused further comment when reached on his cell phone in San Antonio, Texas, where the Red Raiders are preparing to play Michigan State in Saturday's Alamo Bowl.

A source told ESPN's Joe Schad that Leach called a trainer and directed him to move James "to the darkest place, to clean out the equipment and to make sure that he could not sit or lean. He was confined for three hours."

According to the source, Leach told the trainer, two days later, to "put [James] in the darkest, tightest spot. It was in an electrical closet, again, with a guard posted outside."

However, Pincock said James was initially placed in a "sports medicine garage, there is no lock on this building." Pincock said injured players are typically asked to perform exercises during practice, but "James could not participate in these drills, and was originally asked to walk around the field."

"Adam showed up to practice in street clothes, no team gear, and dark sunglasses," Pincock said, according to the statement. "Adam walked about 40 to 50 yards, very slowly and with a non-caring attitude."

Pincock said Leach then asked that James be moved to a location "where sunlight could not bother him as he was wearing sunglasses."

"I instructed Adam to stay in the garage and out of the sun, so the light would not worsen his condition," Pincock said in the statement. "While in the garage, Adam was walking around, eating ice, sitting on the ground, and, at one point, sleeping; at no point was there any enforcement to make Adam stand up."

Two days later, while the Red Raiders practiced at Jones AT&T Stadium, James was placed in a room that is used for postgame interviews involving opposing coaches and players. James told school officials he was placed in an electrical closet inside the room.

"I walked Adam to the room, which was at least as big as a two-car garage," Pincock wrote. "Inside the room there is an electrical closet. I looked in the closet and stated that there was 'no way that Adam would be placed in there.' I shut the door to the electrical closet, and it was never opened again. At no time during this practice was Adam ever placed in the electrical closet."

Mark Schlabach is a college football writer for ESPN.com.

TUSooner

1/1/2010, 08:33 AM

I find the coach who first sided with Leach and is now siding with the James' to be the most amusing part of this saga. Someone apparently is desperate to retain their employment in Lubbock.

I never saw anybody change sides. In fact, the coach I'm thinking of continued to say that he & James were still on opposite sides, but that the coach would protect Adam from threats & stuff.

OUHOMER

1/1/2010, 11:51 AM

leach speaks

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4787194

OUHOMER

1/1/2010, 01:00 PM

More from Leach and staff

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/01/sports/ncaafootball/01leach.html?hp

OUinFLA

1/1/2010, 01:06 PM

so, the civil suit is gonna be hin Lubbock, I assume they can get an impartial jury ( yeah, right), and the impartial jury is gonna give Leach a "runaway" settlement and award him Texas Tech University for a payment.

Ya think he will rename it Pirate U ?

Collier11

1/1/2010, 01:40 PM

http://startelegramsports.typepa d....the-times.html

Quote:
Some would say I’m getting old. I prefer to say I have a seasoned perspective.

I was 10 years old before our family had a television. So I played outside. I was fourteen before we lived in a house with air conditioning, so I tolerate heat.

When I first learned to make a phone call, I picked up the instrument (which did not have even a rotary dial, if you know what that is) and told the operator what number I wished to call. Four digits, which you could ask for only if there was not already a conversation on the line.

And considering the alternatives, if my high school football coach had placed me or my teammates in a cool, dark room as punitive action -- given the alternatives -- we would have gone into a high-five frenzy. If we’d known what a “high-five” was.

So this is why, in my dated opinion, Adam James and his dad Craig are nothing more than crybabies who were not men enough to handle a contentious situation mano-a-mano.

But for them, it wasn’t enough simply to resolve their issues with now-former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach and move on. And daddy Craig, through his ESPN connection, had the perfect venue to ruin Leach’s career -- notwithstanding Leach’s issues with Tech administrators.

And here’s another aside. If you’ve read some of my stuff over the years, you’re well aware of my disdain for the new breed of people who reside under the too-broad blanket of “the media.” I resent being placed in the same category as many of them.

But among the many things I learned when I broke into this profession more than 40 years ago was that you never used your professional position for personal gain, for revenge as it were. You never, ever held your position over someone’s head. Never, ever say, “I work for the Daily Planet, and you’ll regret the day you crossed me.”

That is exactly what it appears to me the senior Crybaby James has done in conjunction with his position as ESPN commentator. But then he’s only a mouthpiece, a talking head, not to be confused with a working journalist. I can think off-hand of less than a handful of those who draw their checks from that organization who do so qualify.

And as a relic of another time, I have to laugh at the concept of what some today perceive to be inhumane treatment at the hands of coaches. On any given Monday after a loss on my junior high or high school teams, we went through a mini-version of The Junction Boys summer camp.

We called it “Black and Blue Monday,” which was apt description.

When I was still early in junior high, our high school head coach, who I later played for, once conducted belly-tackling drills at halftime of a game in which he felt his team was giving less than proper effort. And did so in full view behind the stadium scoreboard.

As I recall, no one whined. Players or parents.

These were the days when no one drank water just because he wanted to. I think we had two practice water breaks, during which we were advised merely to rinse and spit. And here I admit to being a cheater. One of my best friends was the head trainer, who used to keep a water-soaked towel in the hip pocket of his shorts, which was available for those who could sneak up behind him and bite into it hoping to squeeze out some moisture.

During practice scrimmage situations on those Black and Blue Mondays, those who weren’t in the action jogged around the practice field until called upon. Or endured the infamous “Oklahoma drill,” which we called Blood Alley. Some of you who played in the same era know what I'm talking about.

Again, no one whined to our mommies and daddies, or to the school principal. Sure, we complained and moaned among ourselves. But no one thought about trying to get our coach fired. We endured, and wore those bruises as a badge of courage.

How unenlightened we were.

-- Mike Jones

meoveryouxinfinity

1/1/2010, 01:56 PM

I think the funniest thing about this whole story is that the fans and alumni are siding with Leach. I agree it is a travesty and Tech football will not win as consistently without Leach. But it's to the point where the fans can do irreparable damage. Texas Tech football is NOT bigger than Mike Leach. If the same situation has been put upon Bob Stoops, I would feel sorry for him.. support him, and maybe be mad at the administration for being corrupt and traders. But Oklahoma football is bigger than Bob Stoops. I would never miss a day of football inside Memorial Stadium because of it.

Blues1

1/1/2010, 02:10 PM

Quote ~~ How unenlightened we were. ~~~ :)
Amen Mike .....Amen

Think about this --November 1956
Bud Wilkinson Making his players take off their Sooner Jersey's at Half Time in That Frezzing Cold tiny Tin "Shed" in Boulder Colorado a so-called "Locker room" for a whole 20 minutes with No Heat - Telling them They Were Not Worthy of Wearing OU Jersey's and then walking out leaving them all ALONE...in that dim lighted Frezzing Cold Assss Tin Shed....

(Half time Score Colorado 19 OU 6) ~~ Final Score OU 27 - Colorado 19 ~~ :)

Bud was sure a Very Mean Man ~~~ :)

You gotta Keep Rockin' ~~~ :)

Scott D

1/1/2010, 02:40 PM

I never saw anybody change sides. In fact, the coach I'm thinking of continued to say that he & James were still on opposite sides, but that the coach would protect Adam from threats & stuff.

There was an AP story yesterday saying that one of the coaches on the staff had initially confirmed Leach's side of things, but apparently as of yesterday was agreeing more with James' side of it. I didn't read the story, I just laughed it off as someone trying to keep working at Texas Tech no matter what.

bluedogok

1/1/2010, 02:50 PM

There was an AP story yesterday saying that one of the coaches on the staff had initially confirmed Leach's side of things, but apparently as of yesterday was agreeing more with James' side of it. I didn't read the story, I just laughed it off as someone trying to keep working at Texas Tech no matter what.
I think the headline was deceiving on that article, it seemed like the current coach is only saying the current situation is not going to affect his treatment of the player, I see nothing in there that seems to state anything ither than that.

I think this is the article that most are referring to.

Dallas Morning News - Tech assistant who criticized Adam James now offers support (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/colleges/topstories/stories/123109dnspotxtechasst.25531c1.html)
10:28 PM CST on Thursday, December 31, 2009

By KATE HAIROPOULOS / The Dallas Morning News
[email protected]

SAN ANTONIO – A day after the Mike Leach firing, the hubbub raged on many sides Thursday, causing varied effects.

For Lincoln Riley, a Texas Tech assistant and 26-year-old Leach protégé, it demanded walking a tightrope.

Riley's strong criticisms of sophomore receiver Adam James – whose alleged treatment by Leach led to the coach's termination – had become public earlier this week. But on Thursday, Riley also voiced support for James.

"I told him I know we're on different sides of the fence to this deal," Riley said. "But he's still my player. The threats to him and his family are absolutely ridiculous. I told him if he feels in danger in any way, I'll help him as much as I can."

The Associated Press reported police have increased patrols of the family home in Celina because of Internet threats to James, who is the son of Craig James, an ESPN football analyst and former SMU star.

Riley, the inside receivers coach, stopped shy of saying he wanted James to return to Tech next season. Asked if he believed Leach had ever endangered a player, he replied, "No."

Riley was among the coaches and former players who wrote letters of support of Leach last Saturday as the Tech administration began looking into the allegations. In his letter, published by CBSSports .com, Riley called James "unusually lazy" and "entitled" and said he received a spot on a major college program only because Leach advocated for him.

Elsewhere, the Facebook group "Team Leach," created in part to encourage Leach supporters to let the Texas Tech administration know of their displeasure, counted more than 31,000 members.

Former Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville became the second coach to acknowledge interest in the job opening – joining Ruffin McNeill, the Tech defensive coordinator and interim head coach.

Attempts to interview Tech athletic director Gerald Myers and chancellor Kent Hance were unsuccessful.

Red Raiders players appeared to wear blinders during a midday practice on the campus of Incarnate Word. Players – including James, who will not be cleared to play medically in Saturday's Valero Alamo Bowl against Michigan State – walked off the field after practice smiling, talking among themselves and even singing.

For the second straight day, they were not made available for interviews.

Riley is also trying to keep his focus on the Spartans, as it will be his job in the bowl to call the plays – the role Leach performed with such flourish during his 10-year tenure at Tech.

Riley, of Muleshoe, Texas, is in his third year as a Tech assistant and has spent his entire career under Leach since joining the Red Raiders as a walk-on quarterback in 2002.

"I was in his office and with him for many hours for many years, so we were very close," Riley said of Leach. "He stood out for me on a limb when a lot of people wouldn't."

After briefly panicking when he first learned of the firing Wednesday, Riley was comforted by the thought that McNeill is the right man in charge at this time.

Riley also responded to a handful of current Tech players' quotes that have surfaced, voicing support for Leach's firing.

"Anytime you have 120 players, you're going to have different feelings about people," he said. "It's easy to say that when someone is gone."

But Riley said his loyalty to Leach didn't keep him from feeling "fired up" about calling his first game Saturday.

"Maybe people don't expect much from us, but our guys are excited – they know what's going to happen Saturday," Riley said.

MamaMia

1/1/2010, 03:07 PM

Leach put people in the seats and made Tech a whole lot of money. He deserved more compensation for that than Tech was willing to fork over. The more I read and hear about this whole saga, the more it appears to me that its all a bunch of sour grapes on the part of Tech. I believe the behavior coming from the powers that be at Tech stems from the fact that Leach interviewed for other positions. Tech felt that Mikes loyalty was in question. They don't understand that business is business. Leach doesn't have a ref raider tattooed on his ***. Its completely understandable, and in most cases a powerful negotiation tool from a business prospective that Leach would explore other avenues.

[edit] Oh and as far as the concussion/electrical closet allegation is concerned...its becoming more and more clear that it was blown out of proportion and that Tech is using that as a spring board to pounce on Leach. In the end the James player, his Mommy and Daddy and Techs football program are going to be the ones who suffer over all that drama.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!

1/1/2010, 03:29 PM

"WE ARE(clap clap) SAND AGGY!...and don't you ever forget it"-New Sand Aggy chant, to be introduced at their first court appearance in the Leach firing case.

Widescreen

1/1/2010, 04:09 PM

Yeah, the headline of the article doesn't accurately portray it's contents. It's not changing his story when he simply says that it's wrong for people to want to lynch Adam and the whole James clan.

prrriiide

1/1/2010, 04:20 PM

We have no character.

Sand Aggy is going to be spending a lot of money in paying a settlement of the impending lawsuit...

Let's say... oh.. $7million... but with non-disparagement clauses and a provision that Leach can't coach in the Big 12 for 5 years.

It's gonna get ugly...

And what fun to be a part of that fight!!

Lid, you know texass law...how big of a violation of the Sunshine Law is Hance's directive not to disclose the contract e-mails to anyone? Is that not akin to suborning perjury? Also, wouldn't any communication between Hance, Meyers, and Sowell regarding the future of a university employee also be covered under the Sunshine Law? If the Three Stooges violated the law, they could be in a lot more trouble than just a contractual dispute. Violation of the Sunshine Law would open them up to an investigation that could find other misdeeds not related to Leach. Idiots.

Scott D

1/1/2010, 04:46 PM

Yeah, the headline of the article doesn't accurately portray it's contents. It's not changing his story when he simply says that it's wrong for people to want to lynch Adam and the whole James clan.

nobody should want to lynch Adam, although I understand that Texas still thinks that's how you do things. ;)

Someone should go ahead and inform him that his old man would be getting every penny that Adam would get should he actually be able to transfer to SMU since they'd have to take the money to pay Adam out of Craig's pension.

Leroy Lizard

1/1/2010, 05:18 PM

Prof. Lizard: "Missy, what happened on your test. You must have partied too much last night."

Missy runs home.

Missy: "Mom, Prof. Lizard thinks I'm a slut."

Mom runs to the university.

Mom: "Prof. Lizard called my daughter a slut."

Dean: "Hee, hee, hee. We have Prof. Lizard right where we want him. We've been trying to get rid of him for a long time. Even the members of Soonerfans hate him. Call his reptilian butt in here."

This is one reason why parents should stay out of these messes. If Adam had taken up his own cause (like an adult) and complained to the administration rather than to his parents, none of this would likely have happened.

Often, situations escalate out of control not because someone is bad, but because the process was not followed according to proper protocols. If a parent tries to use his influence in the media to obtain special privileges for his son, that should have been reported to the administration. Did Leach do that? Did the administration tell James' parents that Adam needed to file the complaint and that they would not discuss the situation without Adam's involvement? If not, then you get what you deserve.

We put protocols in place for a reason.

Petro-Sooner

1/1/2010, 05:24 PM

I actually got a little chuckle out of that. Thanks LL. :D

And I agree with what your saying.

Scott D

1/1/2010, 05:32 PM

This is one reason why parents should stay out of these messes. If Adam had taken up his own cause (like an adult) and complained to the administration rather than to his parents, none of this would likely have happened.

Often, situations escalate out of control not because someone is bad, but because the process was not followed according to proper protocols. If a parent tries to use his influence in the media to obtain special privileges for his son, that should have been reported to the administration. Did Leach do that? Did the administration tell James' parents that Adam needed to file the complaint and that they would not discuss the situation without Adam's involvement? If not, then you get what you deserve.

We put protocols in place for a reason.

I think it's safe to say that protocols weren't followed in this case at least if some of this 'leaked' evidence is to be believed. Not to mention that Texas Tech apparently can't keep their own story straight. One guy says insubordination, another says something else.

I personally can't wait to see how messy it's going to get if for no other reason than entertainment value. And I'm not one of the Mike Leach reminiscent ones.

Collier11

1/1/2010, 05:34 PM

I loved his interview and how he basically talked about what he wanted to talk about the entire time even if it had nothing to do with the question being asked

Sooner Eclipse

1/1/2010, 05:42 PM

I loved his interview and how he basically talked about what he wanted to talk about the entire time even if it had nothing to do with the question being asked

He knew they would manipulate what he had to say. He gave them as little as possible to edit and even then the edited it pretty heavily.

Scott D

1/1/2010, 06:10 PM

so does it mean ESPN is backing down to a degree of their backing James' side of things by showing that ticker all day about the trainer contradicting everything Adam James said?

MeMyself&Me

1/1/2010, 07:57 PM

so does it mean ESPN is backing down to a degree of their backing James' side of things by showing that ticker all day about the trainer contradicting everything Adam James said?

I figured they'd have to eventually. There's too much other info out there for them to ignore. I think having Leach on and airing the part telling about the character of the James kid was the start of them backing down. Curious to see how far they'll back down.

Scott D

1/1/2010, 08:44 PM

Not to mention, Tim Brando had a good point. This entire matter is likely going to affect whatever relationship Craig James (as a member of the media) will have with the "Coaching Fraternity" in regards to doing his job.

Sooner Eclipse

1/1/2010, 09:17 PM

bluedogok

1/1/2010, 09:53 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if his contract is "not renewed" by ESPN after the season. Maybe he can go back to doing local sports like he did at one time.

MeMyself&Me

1/1/2010, 10:35 PM

Does anyone think we might see Leach at Colorado after next year? Don't know much about Colorado except I can't imagine Hawkins hanging onto that job for much longer.

1/1/2010, 10:38 PM

Bingo! I see the same thing happening.

bluedogok

1/1/2010, 10:38 PM

I think Hawkins got the "vote of confidence" for next season.....

BoulderSooner79

1/1/2010, 10:40 PM

I'm not sure Hawkins got a vote of confidence. All the talk in Boulder was that CU couldn't afford to buy out his contract and pay a new coach, so they have to wait him out for another year.

Blues1

1/1/2010, 10:43 PM

Does anyone think we might see Leach at Colorado after next year? Don't know much about Colorado except I can't imagine Hawkins hanging onto that job for much longer.

Leach seems to enjoy being in Colorado -- But I would think his ideas of offense would work better in a warmer weather area -- How about usc after Petey gets fired ~~~ :)

MeMyself&Me

1/1/2010, 10:43 PM

I knew that much... that's why I said after next year.

royalfan5

1/1/2010, 10:45 PM

My guess is that Leach will surface at Washington State unless Paul Wulff gets things going soon. I think they would be one of the few schools with the tolerance for his proclivities.

ocsooner

1/1/2010, 10:46 PM

Does anyone think we might see Leach at Colorado after next year? Don't know much about Colorado except I can't imagine Hawkins hanging onto that job for much longer.

That would be cool - we would still get to see his press conferences since he would still be in the big 12, but wouldn't have to play him every year.

bluedogok

1/1/2010, 10:47 PM

I'm not sure Hawkins got a vote of confidence. All the talk in Boulder was that CU couldn't afford to buy out his contract and pay a new coach, so they have to wait him out for another year.
I was joking about the "vote of confidence", when they came out with a statement that he was going to be their coach next season the whole press release reminded me of one of those dreaded "votes of confidence" that coaches and CEO's get not too long before getting fired.

OUinFLA

1/1/2010, 10:52 PM

The Pirate is not going to be coaching a Big XII school anytime soon.
I'd think TT would shut down the school before they would let that happen

MeMyself&Me

1/1/2010, 11:18 PM

I unless that's a condition of some sort of settlement agreement, I don't see how they have a say.

Hot Rod

1/1/2010, 11:21 PM

The Pirate is not going to be coaching a Big XII school anytime soon.
I'd think the James family would shut down the school before they would let that happen

Fixed. :cool: