Suh v McCoy

[rawlingsHOH]

http://www.omaha.com/article/20091222/BIGRED03/912229967

more leftover from Monday's conversation with ESPN analyst Todd McShay, who's been evaluating NFL prospects for the last decade.

McShay's made an interesting distinction between Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh and Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy, two high-caliber defensive tackles expected to be selected in the top 10 during next April's NFL Draft.

Obviously, the players' numbers are different.

Suh has 82 total tackles, 23 tackles for loss and 12 sacks this season. In one fewer game, McCoy's tallied 31 total tackles, 14 ½ tackles for loss and five sacks.

But according to McShay, the way the two players approach their position might tell you a lot about the seemingly lopsided one-on-one comparison of production.

“Suh's more of, stand the offensive linemen up, find the ball and make the play type of guy,” McShay said during a conference call Monday. “Where as McCoy, he can anchor in versus the run, but he's at his best when he's in that 3-technique between the guard and tackle and can get up field and disrupt. His quickness and power is outstanding.”

McCoy, a junior who's graduated, will make himself eligible for the draft, he announced earlier this month.
In terms of NFL draft stock, McShay actually had McCoy ranked ahead of Suh until the latter portion of the college football season.

But here's the bottom-line: Several NFL teams need some talent in the middle of their defensive lines. And both Suh and McCoy are excellent choices, McShay said.

“I don't think there's a big difference between them in terms of value,” McShay said. “I think there's a difference in terms of the way they play.”

[silverwheels]

Imagine them both on the same team. :eek:

[BoulderSooner79]

I have to disagree. No knock on McCoy, but I think he is similar to the type of DT that is usually the top DT to be drafted each year. Suh is a generational player at the college level. He has all the footwork and speed of a guy like McCoy but the strength of those 350lb run stopping specialist. It will be interesting to see how Suh's abilities are used in the NFL. I do agree with McShay that you can't compare their stats as they play different roles in different defensive schemes.

[badger]

I think we can all agree that no matter which of these two you draft, you will have a can't-miss prospect that will contribute to your team's defense positively for years.

Just... pick McCoy first :D

[Scott D]

I have to disagree. No knock on McCoy, but I think he is similar to the type of DT that is usually the top DT to be drafted each year. Suh is a generational player at the college level. He has all the footwork and speed of a guy like McCoy but the strength of those 350lb run stopping specialist. It will be interesting to see how Suh's abilities are used in the NFL. I do agree with McShay that you can't compare their stats as they play different roles in different defensive schemes.

I'd argue that Suh has better footwork than McCoy due to his athletic background.

[Eielson]

He has all the footwork and speed of a guy like McCoy.

No he doesn't.

[VA Sooner]

Both would be a force to reckon with. I can't imagine both on the same team. Suh won't last as long if he stays standing up during play... needs to learn a few more stances.

[OUinFLA]

One of them will probably wind up in Tampa.........

Poor lad.

[Eielson]

One of them will probably wind up in Tampa.........

Poor lad.

Suh to St. Louis. McCoy to Tampa.

[OUinFLA]

That'd be Ok, we're getting a contengent of OU players down here.

[Scott D]

if you go by McShay's list, it's Suh to St. Louis, McCoy to Detroit.

[BoulderSooner79]

if you go by McShay's list, it's Suh to St. Louis, McCoy to Detroit.

That's just mean spirited. If it's true McCoy should come back next year :D

[Scott D]

well those lists are speculative at best, since the draft order isn't cemented. Hell he has that Poke tackle going to KC at 5.

[TXBOOMER]

I hate the NFL. F's up college football with everyone coming out early nowadays. I think Suh is the better player. McCoy is dammmmm good though. Both will be super wealthy young men. Congrats to them.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I hate the NFL. F's up college football with everyone coming out early nowadays. I think Suh is the better player. McCoy is dammmmm good though. Both will be super wealthy young men. Congrats to them.Junior Achievement Award, for BEST POST of this thread!

[Boomer.....]

Suh's stats blow my mind.

2009 season:
82 tackles, 12 sacks, 23 TFL, 1 forced fumble, 1 INT, 10 passes broken up, 3 blocked kicks.

Gerald McCoy's Oklahoma career stats:
80 tackles, 13.5 sacks, 32 TFL, 2 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, 1 INT and 4 pass deflections.

[C&CDean]

Anybody remember a lad named Tommie Harris? Go check his college stats. They weren't very impressive. At all. Especially compared to Suh's. Would anyone argue that TH is not an impressive NFL d-tackle?

It ain't all about the stats. It's how you affect the game.

[Veritas]

The list of college players who blew up college football and then faded into obscurity after a high draft pick is long. The list of the inverse is true as well, players who were unheard of in college ball but blew up the NFL.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The list of college players who blew up college football and then faded into obscurity after a high draft pick is long. The list of the inverse is true as well, players who were unheard of in college ball but blew up the NFL.CHRIS JOHNSON!!!

[Sooner04]

Anybody remember a lad named Tommie Harris? Go check his college stats. They weren't very impressive. At all. Especially compared to Suh's. Would anyone argue that TH is not an impressive NFL d-tackle?
I would now.

[adoniijahsooner]

CHRIS JOHNSON!!!

That's because people werent paying attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhUhLtAC_Ok

[rawlingsHOH]

CHRIS JOHNSON!!!
What I thought was most strange abou thim was how he all of a sudden blew up, his senior season, at ECU.

He went from an average, 500 yard, 4.0 per carry, guy, his first 3 years, to a 2,000 yard (all-purpose) 6.0 per carry back, as a senior. And carried that right into the NFL.

[Scott D]

Anybody remember a lad named Tommie Harris? Go check his college stats. They weren't very impressive. At all. Especially compared to Suh's. Would anyone argue that TH is not an impressive NFL d-tackle?

It ain't all about the stats. It's how you affect the game.

Based on his play..or should I say lack of staying healthy the past few seasons I was wondering if Tommie Harris was playing in the new upstart league instead of for the Bears.

[C&CDean]

I guess I should have said "when he ain't hurt" which hasn't been very often.

[Scott D]

The only thing impressive about TH's career is him being healthy enough to play more than 50% of the snaps in two consecutive weeks.

[rawlingsHOH]

The only thing impressive about TH's career is him being healthy enough to play more than 50% of the snaps in two consecutive weeks.
He was arguably the best DT in the league about 3 years ago (Bears Super Bowl season), and tore his hamstring at the end of the year. He's made 3 Pro Bowls and was an alternate for a 4th. Injuries aside, he's never played LESS than 12 games in any season, he's done okay.

[CowboyMRW]

well those lists are speculative at best, since the draft order isn't cemented. Hell he has that Poke tackle going to KC at 5.

The Poke tackle you speak of is the top offensive lineman in the nation.

[Eielson]

It ain't all about the stats. It's how you affect the game.

The thought of statting a defensive tackle is one of the more ridiculous ideas in football.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The Poke tackle you speak of is the top offensive lineman in the nation.What drove you over here?...wait, feggitaboutit.

[Eielson]

CHRIS JOHNSON!!!

No...but MILES AUSTIN!!!

Although he did kinda tear it up so he might not meat the standards either. He just wasn't D1.

[Since71ASooner4Life]

The list of college players who blew up college football and then faded into obscurity after a high draft pick is long. The list of the inverse is true as well, players who were unheard of in college ball but blew up the NFL.

The list of those who blew it up the way Suh did is rather short though

[Scott D]

The Poke tackle you speak of is the top offensive lineman in the nation.

the speculative part is the draft order genius.

[RedstickSooner]

He was arguably the best DT in the league about 3 years ago (Bears Super Bowl season), and tore his hamstring at the end of the year. He's made 3 Pro Bowls and was an alternate for a 4th. Injuries aside, he's never played LESS than 12 games in any season, he's done okay.

I don't know why everyone knocks the kid for injuries -- it all started when he shat out that helmet for the SI cover shoot, and really, how many of us could crap a helmet and stay healthy, huh? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Didn't think so.

[Scott D]

Who knocked him? I merely commented that since the Super Bowl season he's been invisible for the most part, partially due to injuries, partially due to well...the bears sucking more than a 13 year old Thai hooker.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I have to disagree. No knock on McCoy, but I think he is similar to the type of DT that is usually the top DT to be drafted each year. Suh is a generational player at the college level. He has all the footwork and speed of a guy like McCoy but the strength of those 350lb run stopping specialist. It will be interesting to see how Suh's abilities are used in the NFL. I do agree with McShay that you can't compare their stats as they play different roles in different defensive schemes.

i was about to say that steve entman (who suh reminds me of) was in 91, then i realized wow, that was a generation ago. man i'm old.

[BoulderSooner79]

i was about to say that steve entman (who suh reminds me of) was in 91, then i realized wow, that was a generation ago. man i'm old.

Entman was a beast. It's unknown how good he could have been since he blew out both knees within 2 seasons in the NFL. Sadly, a risk for all players.