State agencies facing another budget cut, any of you

[OU4LIFE]

going to be effected by this?

State revenue is down 28% from the projections. We are about to be seriously effected by the cuts that keep coming.

Good luck to anyone on the wrong end of this.

[OUMallen]

The Oklahoma School of Science and MAth is being affect...which sucks in general, but further sucks because two years ago the school was the ONLY state agency that received a cut!

Hard times.

[King Barry's Back]

As someone that's lived outside of Oklahoma since 1994 -- what's up with the rainy day fund?

Is that still around? Are we using it? Did we spend it already?

It should have been topped off very nicely a couple of years ago when petro prices were through the roof.

Anybody got anything?

[Viking Kitten]

The Rainy Day Fund is at it's constitutional limit of $600M. The Legislature and the governor both have to sign off on tapping it, however the Legislature is not in session until February. There may be a special session in January, however $600M won't even begin to be enough to cover the deficits. We're looking at a $1B shortfall right now.

[King Barry's Back]

The Rainy Day Fund is at it's constitutional limit of $600M. The Legislature and the governor both have to sign off on tapping it, however the Legislature is not in session until February. There may be a special session in January, however $600M won't even begin to be enough to cover the deficits. We're looking at a $1B shortfall right now.

A couple more questions if you don't mind --

Is the $1bn shortfall for 2009, or for 2010? Or does OK have a fiscal year budget?

And more to the point, if the $1b shortfall is for 09, isn't that water under the bridge? It's Dec 18.

If it's for 2010, does that mean that the pencil pushers are predicting a $1bn cut in spending levels over 2009? If so, they could be wrong. Obama keeps telling us the recession is over, right?

[Condescending Sooner]

OK has a fiscal year budget. July through June. We are currently in FY 2010.

[StoopTroup]

Tulsa's new Mayor (?) is going to hack away at the FOP. Called out for the Sheriff's Dept to help cover some areas that the FOP won't be able to get to.

I guess losing the Horses wasn't enough anyway...

Lots of Policemen and Policewomen are going to lose their jobs it seems.

[Mjcpr]

Tulsa's new Mayor (?) is going to hack away at the FOP. Called out for the Sheriff's Dept to help cover some areas that the FOP won't be able to get to.

I guess losing the Horses wasn't enough anyway...

Lots of Policemen and Policewomen are going to lose their jobs it seems.

And Firemen. And staff within all areas of the City. When the vast majority of your budget is police and fire salaries, that's about the only choice when you've had to have reductions to the extent that we have.

[Okla-homey]

Just FWIW, and perhaps to inspire further discussion, these various entities like schools, law enforcement and fire which are apparently under-resourced, seem to have one thing in common; the ratio of adminstrative personnel to classroom teacher, beat cop and firehouse firefighter seems as though it may be way out of whack.

Put another way, I've heard it stated repeatedly, in print and by broadcast media, the ratio of school admin types to classroom teachers is 1:1. I don't know what it is for cops and fire, but I bet it's close.

Now, might one way out of this predicklement be to either cut back on admin types, or at least require them to take some kind of pay cut, while leaving the folks at the tip of the spear alone? I know, contracts and all that stuff. But nevertheless, I'd rather see that sort of thing than cutting first-line folks.

What say you?

:pop:

[Viking Kitten]

OK has a fiscal year budget. July through June. We are currently in FY 2010.

Yes. And that budget was based on projected monthly revenue (tax collections, etc.). The key word there is projected.

Before the fiscal year even began, lawmakers knew thought they would have about $600M less to work with as compared to the FY09 budget. So almost all state agencies were ordered to cut their budgets by 7.5 percent. Most agencies were able to absorb that through cutting back operating expenses, hiring freezes, eliminating overtime, thing like that.

But then the actual revenue started coming in, and it was much lower than expected. So the Legislature told agencies to trim an additional 5 percent from their budgets. That's when we could start to see it and feel it. Salaries represent around 90 percent of most agency's budgets. You can't cut 12.5 percent without dipping into your human costs.

Then this week the really bad news hit, one of the worse Novembers in the state's history in terms of collections. Additional cuts of 10 percent were ordered for December and January. That means agencies are operating with more than 17 percent less money than last year, and that means people are going to lose their jobs. With no signs of the situation getting better, there is talk that the additional cuts will be annualized, meaning even steeper cuts in February and March. This is where the $1B contraction figure comes in, and remember that figure represents about 1/7th of the state's entire budget. Lawmakers from both parties are throwing the term "Great Depression" around.

We haven't even begun to talk about FY2011 yet, except for the fact that the Stimulus money, which has filled some of the holes this year will then be gone.

[Viking Kitten]

Oh and before somebody else does it...

http://jiveturkey.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/debbie_downer.jpg

[OklahomaTuba]

Just FWIW, and perhaps to inspire further discussion, these various entities like schools, law enforcement and fire which are apparently under-resourced, seem to have one thing in common; the ratio of adminstrative personnel to classroom teacher, beat cop and firehouse firefighter seems as though it may be way out of whack.

Put another way, I've heard it stated repeatedly, in print and by broadcast media, the ratio of school admin types to classroom teachers is 1:1. I don't know what it is for cops and fire, but I bet it's close.

Now, might one way out of this predicklement be to either cut back on admin types, or at least require them to take some kind of pay cut, while leaving the folks at the tip of the spear alone? I know, contracts and all that stuff. But nevertheless, I'd rather see that sort of thing than cutting first-line folks.

What say you?

:pop:

I say, what is happening now is nothing compared to what is about to happen in relation to underfunded and broke public pensions, possible default by States such as California, New York, Meatchicken, etc.

And what is already happening with the Dollars collapsing, China is beginning to stop buying our Debt, we risk losing are AAA bond rating, and our national debt is quadruple what it was a year ago.

The porkulus has been the absolute most expensive fail in American history, the States are going broke and jobs are continuing to be lost, and our Dear Leader is in Denmark trying to give more money we don't have away to fighting something we cannot control or may not even exist.

2010 is not going to be a good year.

[OklahomaTuba]

Then this week the really bad news hit, one of the worse Novembers in the state's history in terms of collections.Its figures like this that tell you that BLS unemployment numbers are basically hogwash.

If the economy were improving, sales taxes would be going up, not collapsing during the biggest shopping season of the year.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Oklahoma’s budget has country’s biggest deficit
BY RANDY KREHBIEL - Tulsa World
Only a few months removed from being declared "recession-proof” by national media, Oklahoma faces the largest state budget deficit in the nation, according to a report given by the National Conference of State Legislatures.


The conference’s November update of state budgets says Oklahoma’s 18.5 percent shortfall for the current fiscal year edges out Arizona’s 18 percent, with Illinois, at 16.5 percent, in third.




http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20091220_16_A1_Onlyaf274401

[MR2-Sooner86]

Oklahoma’s budget has country’s biggest deficit
BY RANDY KREHBIEL - Tulsa World
Only a few months removed from being declared "recession-proof” by national media, Oklahoma faces the largest state budget deficit in the nation, according to a report given by the National Conference of State Legislatures.


The conference’s November update of state budgets says Oklahoma’s 18.5 percent shortfall for the current fiscal year edges out Arizona’s 18 percent, with Illinois, at 16.5 percent, in third.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20091220_16_A1_Onlyaf274401

WE'RE #1!!!!!

[Viking Kitten]

Yikes. (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-estimates-20-percent-decline-in-revenue-for-2010/article/3426510?custom_click=lead_story_title)

Early projections for next year's (2011) budget were announced today. An additional billion dollars less than this year. Things are gonna get ugly.

[OU4LIFE]

Good times.

I heard today that 26 high schools have reported that they don't have the revenue to finish the year.

I don't think some people fully realize how bad it's about to get. We are looking at losing nearly 1/4 of our workforce. That's a lot of Oklahomans out of work folks.

[NormanPride]

That's crazy. I think we spent more the past couple months than I have in any other holiday season since being in OK. Crazy...

[Condescending Sooner]

A big part of the problem is that the geniuses in the legislature cut taxes a couple of years ago when we had a surplus. They cut auto inspection fees, and other things. They didn't replace the revenue for the most part. They did try to shift some of it to gross production taxes, but when the industry took a nose dive, so did revenue.

[tommieharris91]

A big part of the problem is that the geniuses in the legislature cut taxes a couple of years ago when we had a surplus. They cut auto inspection fees, and other things. They didn't replace the revenue for the most part. They did try to shift some of it to gross production taxes, but when the industry took a nose dive, so did revenue.

Turn in your Republican card right now. Can't be havin anyone wanting higher taxes. :texan:

[Mjcpr]

A big part of the problem is that the geniuses in the legislature cut taxes a couple of years ago when we had a surplus. They cut auto inspection fees, and other things. They didn't replace the revenue for the most part. They did try to shift some of it to gross production taxes, but when the industry took a nose dive, so did revenue.

That was to encourage business growth, relocation to the region and additional jobs, duh.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Just FWIW, and perhaps to inspire further discussion, these various entities like schools, law enforcement and fire which are apparently under-resourced, seem to have one thing in common; the ratio of adminstrative personnel to classroom teacher, beat cop and firehouse firefighter seems as though it may be way out of whack.

Put another way, I've heard it stated repeatedly, in print and by broadcast media, the ratio of school admin types to classroom teachers is 1:1. I don't know what it is for cops and fire, but I bet it's close.

Now, might one way out of this predicklement be to either cut back on admin types, or at least require them to take some kind of pay cut, while leaving the folks at the tip of the spear alone? I know, contracts and all that stuff. But nevertheless, I'd rather see that sort of thing than cutting first-line folks.

What say you?

:pop:

I can shed some light on this from at least one side of the fence.

The Tulsa Fire Department administrative positions are based on the support and administration of the TFD's core reason for existence, the delivery of quality life and fire safety services. Through a recent restructuring of departmental administration, positions were eliminated and consolidated to minimize budget impact and still provide management of these services. Consolidated services include the consolidation of the management of many offices of the Fire Marshal, including public education and code enforcement into a single position. Reductions in support services and basic expenditures round out a large reduction in the operating budget of Tulsa's fire department. The organizational structure of the Field Operations section by its very virtue allows the agency to remain within federally mandated spans of control without excessive, top heavy management. Fire companies are managed by a fire captain who manages all assigned to a particular piece of apparatus, usually 3-4 personnel. A District Chief manages these apparatus within their respective districts, usually numbering from 7-10 apparatus. The five district chiefs and chief of the airport report to the on duty assistant chief, who is the highest ranking shift work personnel of which there are 3 for each operational shift. These members report to the Deputy Chief of Field Operations, who in turn reports to the Fire Chief. It works similarly in each section, establishing a chain of command. Administrative positions report to the appropriate section chief or the Fire Chief as applicable. Each administrative position is responsible for major aspects of fire department operational capacity, ranging from Safety, Public Information, Training (Drillmaster), EMS, et cetera, all serving in support of Field operations or in the execution of the duties of the Fire Marshal as per the City Charter.

That clear it up any? Point being, the administrative aspect of the Tulsa Fire Department isn't the "fat tick" our ex-councilor Bill Martinson would have you believe.

[Norm In Norman]

The Rainy Day Fund is at it's constitutional limit of $600M. The Legislature and the governor both have to sign off on tapping it, however the Legislature is not in session until February. There may be a special session in January, however $600M won't even begin to be enough to cover the deficits. We're looking at a $1B shortfall right now.
We were talking yesterday and I wonder how much extra it costs to have a special session. Nothing a few furloughs wouldn't take care of I'm sure.

Here's a question - do I start eating bologna sandwiches for lunch to save money thus putting less money into the economy or do I eat out and have less money to save?

I'll let you guys know when I get fired to save some dough.

[Viking Kitten]

I began brownbagging it six weeks ago, Norm, and started bumming Xanax off friends so I can forget about the guillotine hanging over my head.

[StoopTroup]

You pariahs better learn to suck it up like the rest of us have.











;)

[OU4LIFE]

We were talking yesterday and I wonder how much extra it costs to have a special session. Nothing a few furloughs wouldn't take care of I'm sure.

Here's a question - do I start eating bologna sandwiches for lunch to save money thus putting less money into the economy or do I eat out and have less money to save?

I'll let you guys know when I get fired to save some dough.

A little less time talking and a little more time working might be a good place to start. ;)


I began brownbagging it six weeks ago, Norm, and started bumming Xanax off friends so I can forget about the guillotine hanging over my head.

Amen sister.

Srsly guys, while administration types might be the place to cut in some areas, there are several state agencies that are comprised of just that, administration. Support and direction for field staff. These agencies budgets are comprised of 90% salaries. So when they come out and say "cut 20%", they are talking people, not money.

When you start cutting support services, you start lowering inservice and training, which lowers teachers ability to continue professional development, which trickles down to students.

We are already in a worse place financially than the mid 80's...the next cut takes us into great depression area.

People can complain about natural gas and oil prices, but that's what floats this state. if it goes down, everything in this state suffers.

Merry Christmas.

[Okla-homey]

I began brownbagging it six weeks ago, Norm, and started bumming Xanax off friends so I can forget about the guillotine hanging over my head.

If all else fails, could you get your old gig back? That sucka is self-supporting through membership dues.

[Viking Kitten]

That iron is already in the fire.

[Okla-homey]

That iron is already in the fire.

atta girl! I knew you was too savvy to burn any bridges.:D

[tulsaoilerfan]

I thought the lottery was supposed to cure all our problems?

[OU4LIFE]

For the first time in a very long time, I'm actually worried about having a job when April rolls around.

Man, this state needs some good news.

[Condescending Sooner]

I had to submit a furlough plan yesterday. It is not looking good.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

So where is the lottery money?

[tulsaoilerfan]

So where is the lottery money?

Sure as hell not going to the schools; check out all the news regarding budget shortfalls for Oklahoma Public Schools over the last month or so; really depressing

[OU4LIFE]

I had to submit a furlough plan yesterday. It is not looking good.

We would welcome a furlough plan. We are skipping over that and going straight to the 'Reduction in Force' plan.

Rumors are anywhere from 17-50 positions eliminated.

[Condescending Sooner]

Luckily our finance director is pretty sharp. We have been socking away money for about a year and a half in anticipation of cuts.

None of us expected cuts this large however.

[Mjcpr]

Sure as hell not going to the schools; check out all the news regarding budget shortfalls for Oklahoma Public Schools over the last month or so; really depressing

It IS going to the schools, the short falls are from the state due to THEIR revenue shortfalls.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Sounds like Oklahoma is catching up with the rest of us.

[Viking Kitten]

It IS going to the schools, the short falls are from the state due to THEIR revenue shortfalls.

And keep in mind that education is taking a special hit because the 1017 Fund, which is a special fund set up to pay for public education, is down even more than the general revenue fund. The 1017 money comes from places like tribal gaming revenue and cigarette taxes.

Also keep in mind that only 45 percent of the lottery money goes to common ed. Another 45 percent goes to higher ed, 5 percent to teachers' retirement and 5 percent to support school consolidation. If you read the original legislation, it pretty clearly says the lottery is intended to supplement and not REPLACE other state funding.

[Mjcpr]

If you read the original legislation, it pretty clearly says the lottery is intended to supplement and not REPLACE other state funding.

Yes. And if that isn't happening, that's on the state budget people because that's how I expected it to work and that's how we were told it would work. That's why I always argue w/those who are against the lottery it is and does supply supplemental funds to education, how is that bad? If that has changed, then somebody else ****ed it up.

[Viking Kitten]

Budget agreement reached, deal will be announced at 3 p.m. today. Standby... this could get ugly.

[yermom]

crap. they got to VK didn't they? :(

[Viking Kitten]

Ten percent monthly cuts for most agencies for the rest of the year. Education and public safety slightly less. Rainy Day Fund and stimulus money will make up the difference. And remember this is just until June 30. There is an additional billion dollars missing from next year's budget.

[OU4LIFE]

Insanity.

Seriously, how can you miss your projections by THIRTY percent? Are you serious?

I just don't get how you can screw up THAT badly. 10% I could understand, stuff happens...but 30%?

Have any of you ever missed your personal budgets by 30%? I'd bet not.

Saw in the paper furloughs for more state agencies.

good times. Our cuts should be coming down within the month, they are cutting 1 million out of the 2011 budget NOW, no one knows how many people that's going to amount to just yet.

[Condescending Sooner]

Because Meacham is an idiot and had no business being selected for his position.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Insanity.

Seriously, how can you miss your projections by THIRTY percent? Are you serious?

I just don't get how you can screw up THAT badly. 10% I could understand, stuff happens...but 30%?


Math is hard.

[OU4LIFE]

We lost 12 more yesterday.

That's 30 people in the last month.

Thanks Meacham

[Position Limit]

a great source of revenue for local and state governments would be to tax the bejesus out of churches.

[Viking Kitten]

We lost 12 more yesterday.

That's 30 people in the last month.

Thanks Meacham

Is that layoffs or "voluntary" (yeah right) early retirements?

[OU4LIFE]

Is that layoffs or "voluntary" (yeah right) early retirements?

combo.

we had 19 take a voluntary package last month, 12 were 'RIF'd yesterday.

One guy had been here 28 freaking years

[yermom]

a great source of revenue for local and state governments would be to tax the bejesus out of churches.

now you're talkin'