Even Whorns Faculty Doesn't Think Mack Is Worth It

[Okie35]

AUSTIN, Texas -- Some University of Texas faculty question whether football coach Mack Brown is worth $5 million annually when the school faces tough budget choices.

University system regents last week decided Brown deserved more money, raising his annual pay from $3 million. The Longhorns will face fellow unbeaten Alabama in the Citi BCS National Championship Game on Jan. 7.

A resolution approved Monday, in an informal vote during a UT Faculty Council meeting, said the $5 million deal was "unseemly and inappropriate." The group lacked a quorum for an official vote.

Texas president William Powers Jr. said the athletic program, under Brown, has had no subsidies or deficits and has channeled $6.6 million into academic programs in recent years.

Brown's salary is paid with money raised by athletic department revenues.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4744679

[TUSooner]

What do you expect from college professors? They're just jealous of anyone who makes more money then them, because they are the most important people in the world and should be rewarded as such. At least they should determine who IS the most worthy of high pay.
I dislike Clappy Mack and the whorns as much as anybody, but this is a non-issue. Besides, I heard on Mike x2 that all Mack's money comes from the football program and not from the university budget. They are just pseudo-Marxist bitchers and 100% Full of S***.

[Collier11]

Very few college professors like the money that coaches are paid, like it or not Football brings in the money therefore they get paid


Also, as TUSooner pointed out, Mack and Bob are paid directly from the athletic budget, none of it is university money...not all schools are like this but in these cases they are

[Okie35]

What do you expect from college professors? They're just jealous of anyone who makes more money then them, because they are the most important people in the world and should be rewarded as such. At least they should determine who IS the most worthy of high pay.
I dislike Clappy Mack and the whorns as much as anybody, but this is a non-issue. Besides, I heard on Mike x2 that all Mack's money comes from the football program and not from the university budget. They are just pseudo-Marxist bitchers and 100% Full of S***.

Its really not an issue I just found it funny how public it is. Usually teachers keep quiet and this stays in house.

[MeMyself&Me]

Its really not an issue I just found it funny how public it is. Usually teachers keep quiet and this stays in house.

This seems perfectly natural to come from a college in the middle of the San Fransisco of the southwest.

[cdlbdd]

They are just pseudo-Marxist bitchers and 100% Full of S***.

Is this true of all college professors, or just those in Austin?

[TUSooner]

Its really not an issue I just found it funny how public it is. Usually teachers keep quiet and this stays in house.

True dat.

[badger]

I heard that this wasn't even an official resolution from the Faculty Senate, because they didn't have quorum. Basically, it was a non-majority fraction of the Faculty Senate getting together and saying "We don't like the university paying this guy more millions."

It sounds almost as whiny as Mack Brown getting into the Rose Bowl in 2004. It sounds almost as whiny as Mack Brown not getting into the Big 12 title game or national title game last year.

Almost.

[Sasakwa]

How much money does Brown's football team bring to the univeristy? TV money, bowl money, sales of merchandise, sales of nachos, tickets, tailgaters buying groceries, staying at hotels, etc.

Yeah, shut the hell up teach.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

How much money does Brown's football team bring to the univeristy? TV money, bowl money, sales of merchandise, sales of nachos, tickets, tailgaters buying groceries, staying at hotels, etc.

Yeah, shut the hell up teach.

^^^THIS! Those faculty wouldn't get paid what they are without the football program. The need to shut it and enjoy the benefits of what the football team brings in.

[StoopTroup]

This will be an even bigger issue when mack comes Home empty handed in January. He's already wasted money on a trip to NY.

[BoulderSooner79]

Professors at OU grumbled about the football program when I was there during the Switzer days. I think it is more about ego and priorities than money. Understandable they might view teaching as more important than sports. But the $$ is not about priorities, it's just market dynamics. That's what determines professor's pay too.

[badger]

I think Boren has done a good job of making sure our academic side is taken care of and is shown love from the administration. Thus, when it became known that Stoopster would pull in $4.7 mil by 2010, there wasn't a non-majority, non-official vote by the OU Faculty Senate bashing Stoops' contract.

Of course, that doesn't mean Boren doesn't love football - I think his presence at the NCAA hearing to get the 2005 victories restored was vital to getting that ruling in our favor. He's a politician and lawyer. No reason we can't use that to our athletic advantage :D

[ouduckhunter]

Is this true of all college professors, or just those in Austin?


I know that faculty/admin, etc. is always yakking and complaining about the coaching pay out here in the PAC10 schools.

[KantoSooner]

I laugh whenever I see shiite like this. I have tried for years to work with various universities across the country to get contract research done....thus pumping money into the academic departments. The hostility, suspicion and paranoia has been mind blowing. I reluctantly came to the conclusion that these fine folks simply don't understand money or even the concept of a simple transaction (I will give you $X for doing Y for me. Deal?).
Mack and Bob, however, seem to have the concept pretty well in hand.

And before you think I'm too harsh, I've got two undergrad degrees and two advanced ones....I are (or used to be) an academic.

[Leroy Lizard]

^^^THIS! Those faculty wouldn't get paid what they are without the football program. The need to shut it and enjoy the benefits of what the football team brings in.

Sorry, that's just crazy talk. Those professors don't see a dime of athletic department revenues.

The Cockrell School of Engineering annually brings in over $160 million. That's more than the football team raises. Hell, that's more than the entire athletic department raises.

Head coaches make far more then they are worth. The UT football team brought in about $50 million last year. No non-profit earning only $50 million should be paying their head $5 million per year.

So I'm going to side with the professors on this one.

[Collier11]

and you are wrong, you arent considering everything that goes into it

[Leroy Lizard]

and you are wrong, you arent considering everything that goes into it

Wow, what a detailed argument you provide.

[badger]

Sorry, that's just crazy talk. Those professors don't see a dime of athletic department revenues.

Programs like OU's that subsidize academics do support professors' salaries partially, in addition to other academic expenses.

[TopDawg]

I are (or used to be) an academic.

I are suspicious of your claim.













;)

[KantoSooner]

thanks for adding the smiley, for a brief moment I thought my half-assed attempt at humor had fallen flat.

[Jello Biafra]

So I'm going to side with the professors on this one.


color me suprised.


fugg a buncha coneheads

[TopDawg]

I see what you guys are saying, but I also see what the faculty are saying.

By returning UT football to national prominence, Mack Brown has brought in a lot more revenue to the university than they would've gotten otherwise. But at the same time, they almost doubled his pay and he's really not a threat to leave. During a time when the university is going through cutbacks of it's educational programs (which are, afterall, the reason for a university), the $2 million raise seems a little excessive.

I'm sure the academic side is thankful for the $6.6 million that comes from the athletic side, but at a time when the university is going through cutbacks, perhaps it would be more prudent for the regents to give a $1 million raise to Brown, allowing the athletic department to funnel another $1 million over to academics.

[Leroy Lizard]

Programs like OU's that subsidize academics do support professors' salaries partially, in addition to other academic expenses.

That's not going to go into professor's salaries. And I remember a time when the athletic department dipped into academics during the Blake years.

Sherri Coales makes about a $1 million per year. There is no chance in hell that women's basketball nets that kind of money. Does it even turn a profit? How do you justify her salary?

Frankly, if I'm the IRS commissioner I would start stripping these athletic departments of their non-profit status.

[Jello Biafra]

Frankly, if I'm the IRS commissioner I would start stripping these athletic departments of their non-profit status.


pay for performance. maybe you wouldn't be so bitter if you tried to get into something like that.

we could only wish you the IRS commish...as it stands, we'll have to tolerate your dumbazz on this board for what seems like an eternity.

[Collier11]

That's not going to go into professor's salaries. And I remember a time when the athletic department dipped into academics during the Blake years.

And with the hiring of Stoops he has not only gotten the AD out of the red but the football program now single handedly funds the AD in alot of cases as well as giving money back to the university. Stoops brings in tix, merch, bcs and conf title money, appearance, etc...

Sherri Coales makes about a $1 million per year. There is no chance in hell that women's basketball nets that kind of money. Does it even turn a profit? How do you justify her salary?

Womans bball typically has a higher attendance than the men do

Frankly, if I'm the IRS commissioner I would start stripping these athletic departments of their non-profit status.

Thats a whole other issue

[MamaMia]

I know that faculty/admin, etc. is always yakking and complaining about the coaching pay out here in the PAC10 schools.
I can see their point. The money would be much better spent if the PAC-10 were to give that money toward the Ophthalmology needs of your referees.

[cdlbdd]

[QUOTE=Leroy Lizard;2792849]
Sherri Coales makes about a $1 million per year. There is no chance in hell that women's basketball nets that kind of money. Does it even turn a profit? How do you justify her salary?
QUOTE]

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/okla/genrel/auto_pdf/FY09_eada_report.pdf

Pages 13 & 14 show that the only sports at OU that turn a profit are football and men's basketball (surprise surprise).

[Leroy Lizard]

pay for performance.

Non-profits are limited in what they can pay executives. Suffice to say that $5 million per year for a program that only brings in $50 million per year is way beyond what a non-profit should typically pay.

Do you know of any non-profits of that size that pay their executives $5 million a year?

So yeah, I understand the professors' complaints. A university is supposed to be about academics, which is hard to correlate with the salary of a head football coach (who is not even the head of his department) that is roughly 100 times greater.


we could only wish you the IRS commish...as it stands, we'll have to tolerate your dumbazz on this board for what seems like an eternity.

There's no need for that.

[Leroy Lizard]

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/...ada_report.pdf

Pages 13 & 14 show that the only sports at OU that turn a profit are football and men's basketball (surprise surprise).

Interesting. Very interesting.

Sunny Golloway makes $166,000 per year, roughly double a professor's salary. Yet his team spent $2.5 million while earning only $473,000.

Sorry, I think that's whacked.

[cdlbdd]

Interesting. Very interesting.

Sunny Golloway makes $166,000 per year, roughly double a professor's salary. Yet his team spent $2.5 million while earning only $473,000.

Sorry, I think that's whacked.

Which part is whacked?
Sonny making double that of a professor
or
2.5 million in expenses vs. 473,000 in income?

[Leroy Lizard]

The combination of the two.

After all, we have been told countless times that these coaches are worth their salaries because of the huge monies they bring in. Well...?

[Jello Biafra]

Non-profits are limited in what they can pay executives. Suffice to say that $5 million per year for a program that only brings in $50 million per year is way beyond what a non-profit should typically pay.

Do you know of any non-profits of that size that pay their executives $5 million a year?

So yeah, I understand the professors' complaints. A university is supposed to be about academics, which is hard to correlate with the salary of a head football coach (who is not even the head of his department) that is roughly 100 times greater.



There's no need for that.





read me lips there meat sock





i




don't





give




a





fugg!!!!


why do we give a shiite about a buncha damn eggheads bitching and moaning that they arent getting enough money? and o btw, pay for performance means, you win, you get paid.

you suck at anything other than quantum physics, you go to work with greasy hair, horn rimmed glasses that have tape on the frame and you get your underwear pulled up around the back of your head every hour on the hour and sit around bitching and moaning that 85 thousand people dont stand around lecture halls watch you scratch your ear drums abd spew some bullshiite about monkies screwing turtles to produce human beings.

you have two choices, either lift weights or try to become educated in something other than sucking.

[Boomer_Sooner_sax]

Sorry, that's just crazy talk. Those professors don't see a dime of athletic department revenues.

The Cockrell School of Engineering annually brings in over $160 million. That's more than the football team raises. Hell, that's more than the entire athletic department raises.

Head coaches make far more then they are worth. The UT football team brought in about $50 million last year. No non-profit earning only $50 million should be paying their head $5 million per year.

So I'm going to side with the professors on this one.

So all of that free avertisement and exposure is nothing? All of those dollars from selling t-shirts and merchandise is nothing to a school? You get all of that exposure to bring students in to your university, which I do believe would also be tuition money and I sure some subsidies from the state, so again, you would be wrong there too. Man, this is so easy.

[BoulderSooner79]

I've seen write-ups on sports spending and income considering other factors that claim it is not a money generating activity. Of course, this is written by people that do not support big time athletics at universities. The ones I've read are persuasive. I've also seen the ones quoted here proving the opposite - also persuasive. Numbers can be twisted to support the desired outcome. I think reasonable people can disagree on this issue (although they may not call each other reasonable in this forum).

[royalfan5]

On a cost effectiveness basis, some of my Grad Schools profs paid off much bigger for the school than the Football team did on a ROI basis on their salary vs. the research money they brought in.

[Jello Biafra]

On a cost effectiveness basis, some of my Grad Schools profs paid off much bigger for the school than the Football team did on a ROI basis on their salary vs. the research money they brought in.

hmm did your prof have 85k looking over his shoulder when he submitted his research fund app?

[royalfan5]

hmm did your prof have 85k looking over his shoulder when he submitted his research fund app?

Does it matter? He brought in more money per dollar than the football program when he did it.

[ashley]

Non-profits are limited in what they can pay executives. Suffice to say that $5 million per year for a program that only brings in $50 million per year is way beyond what a non-profit should typically pay.

Do you know of any non-profits of that size that pay their executives $5 million a year?

So yeah, I understand the professors' complaints. A university is supposed to be about academics, which is hard to correlate with the salary of a head football coach (who is not even the head of his department) that is roughly 100 times greater.



There's no need for that.

Only 50M, are you sure of that? I think they said he increased revenue by 50M. Sounds like cheap help to me. Is Jack Nicholson worth his salary? It is market value and he is at the top. Besides that, they will never miss the money.

[Leroy Lizard]

hmm did your prof have 85k looking over his shoulder when he submitted his research fund app?

So now the argument shifts again to "public scrutiny."


All of those dollars from selling t-shirts and merchandise is nothing to a school?

Again, UT's engineering school brings in $160,000,000, which is far more than t-shirt sales. What does an engineering prof at UT make? $100,000 per year?

Remember, the athletic department is supposed to act as a non-profit. Paying personnel millions of dollars based on gate receipts and merchandise sales is hardly acting as a non-profit.

Now, coaches should be paid more than the average prof because they don't get tenure. But 100 times more? No freakin' way.

The IRS should step in say, "You are divvying up the proceeds of sales and providing personnel salaries well beyond the norm. You are acting as a corporation, and you will be taxed as a corporation."

[cdlbdd]

[QUOTE=Jello Biafra;2792936]why do we give a shiite about a buncha damn eggheads bitching and moaning that they arent getting enough money?QUOTE]

For the sake of clarity, it should be stated that the faculty were complaining about Brown's compensation, not about dollars that they weren't receiving.

[Leroy Lizard]

Only 50M, are you sure of that?

The entire UT athletic department brought in a little under $100 million, which includes all revenue. The head football coach can only lay claim to a part of that success (although a very large part).

But we can focus on Stoops if you wish. His salary is comparable to Mack's, but OU's athletic department brings in only a fraction of UT's.

And one thing missing from the equation: Is it fair to attribute all of the success of the football team to the head coach? What about the players?


Is Jack Nicholson worth his salary? It is market value and he is at the top.

Again, we are talking about non-profits here. Jack Nicholson is not a non-profit.

Jack Nicholson doesn't have 22 non-paid servants doing the acting for him.

Also, the name of the game in the entertainment industry is just that, entertainment. But universities are primarily for education, not entertainment. Paying the head coach an exorbitant salary is a sign of misplaced priorities.

[ashley]

The entire UT athletic department brought in a little under $100 million, which includes all revenue. The head football coach can only lay claim to a part of that success (although a very large part).

But we can focus on Stoops if you wish. His salary is comparable to Mack's, but OU's athletic department brings in only a fraction of UT's.

And one thing missing from the equation: Is it fair to attribute all of the success of the football team to the head coach? What about the players?



Again, we are talking about non-profits here. Jack Nicholson is not a non-profit.

Jack Nicholson doesn't have 22 non-paid servants doing the acting for him.

Also, the name of the game in the entertainment industry is just that, entertainment. But universities are primarily for education, not entertainment. Paying the head coach an exorbitant salary is a sign of misplaced priorities.

Those twenty two guys are better than they were when he arrived. He got them there so he gets the credit.
I do see where you are going with this and I don't agree that we would be better off if we divided all the money up and spread it around evenly to everyone.

[StoopTroup]

I hope they give mack 50 million a year.

[Leroy Lizard]

Those twenty two guys are better than they were when he arrived. He got them there so he gets the credit.

True, but the touchdowns were scored by the players, not the coach. Without the players, the coach is nothing. He shouldn't get full credit, because he isn't the only one contributing.



I do see where you are going with this and I don't agree that we would be better off if we divided all the money up and spread it around evenly to everyone.

Where did I say that?

Again, UT's engineering department brings in more money than the athletic department, yet those professors don't get to take home bags of money. Where's the equity in that?

Don't be a typical meathead sports nut. These are COLLEGE football teams.

[Leroy Lizard]

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear the justification of Golloway's salary. His teams lose money every year, but he is paid double that of a professor.

[cdlbdd]

BTW, I'm still waiting to hear the justification of Golloway's salary. His teams lose money every year, but he is paid double that of a professor.

If you are looking at things from purely in terms of dollars I doubt you will find/hear a justification. I certainly can't give one. I do know that I am glad the baseball team is there; few things are as pleasant as a Sunday afternoon of OU baseball.

[Leroy Lizard]

But the justification for these coach's salaries was all the huge money the teams bring in.

Like you, I am glad OU has a baseball team. I don't think the team would disappear if the head coach was paid a reasonable salary.

[JLEW1818]

he has won his conference twice in 25 years, nice money for that

[cdlbdd]

But the justification for these coach's salaries was all the huge money the teams bring in.

That is one justification presented. Another already mentioned is that they are simply being payed their market value.

[Leroy Lizard]

Market value is a tautology. We know what the market value is. The question is whether the market value is out of touch with the focus of the university. How on Earth did "market value" translate into Golloway earning double that of a professor?

Here we are capping bank president's salaries at $500,000 per year (which I oppose), while paying football coach's $5 million per year.

[John Kochtoston]

College coaching salaries are why the phrase "Don't hate the player, hate the game" was coined.

Stoops, Brown, Carroll, etc. only make that much money because 1) someone will pay it to them and 2) the schools those coaches work for are afraid it won't be them.

Until there are external controls put on coaching salaries, or until it becomes permissible to pay players for their efforts, these salaries will continue to escalate at ridiculous rates.

Why? Because each football powerhouse has enough fat cats that care only about one thing: a winning football team. Those fat cats couldn't care less about engineering, science, English, etc.

Folks that think money going to athletics should be redirected are, of course, correct. However, the fat cats, as it stands now, will spend that money on athletics, or won't spend it at all on a university. Life ain't fair.

[JLEW1818]

i enjoy your posting, glad you have been posting more

[Leroy Lizard]

I think John nailed it.

If Stoops wanted $10 million per year, we would probably pay it. And then Mack would want $10 million. Carroll would get $14 million, which would then nab Stoops $15 million.

All because we are afraid of losing a football game.

That is why I always admired Joe Paterno. He has given so far $4 million back to his university. You gotta admire that.

[cdlbdd]

Market value is a tautology. We know what the market value is. The question is whether the market value is out of touch with the focus of the university. How on Earth did "market value" translate into Golloway earning double that of a professor?

I think that the market value is out of touch with the focus of the university.

[cdlbdd]

And right you are Leroy regarding the tautology.

[Leroy Lizard]

Note to cdlbdd: Agreeing with me will gain you much red spek.

[cdlbdd]

OH! Please NO, not the RED SPEK:(

[Leroy Lizard]

Yes, the RED SPECK

[Leroy Lizard]

BTW, Joe Paterno's salary for 2007: $512,000. And no coach has done more for a program than Joe Paterno.

[Jello Biafra]

BTW, Joe Paterno's salary for 2007: $512,000. And no coach has done more for a program than Joe Paterno.

screw joe as well as you...right in the mudhole.


i dont careif texas decided to pay clown 20 million a year. its football, i like it. fugg you.

[ashley]

BTW, Joe Paterno's salary for 2007: $512,000. And no coach has done more for a program than Joe Paterno.
He made over 1M in 07, check it out. The $500 was base salary.

[Collier11]

The combination of the two.

After all, we have been told countless times that these coaches are worth their salaries because of the huge monies they bring in. Well...?

As soon as OU is a top 100 university then you can gripe about pay, fair, right?

[Jello Biafra]

I think John nailed it.

If Stoops wanted $10 million per year, we would probably pay it. And then Mack would want $10 million. Carroll would get $14 million, which would then nab Stoops $15 million.

All because we are afraid of losing a football game.

That is why I always admired Joe Paterno. He has given so far $4 million back to his university. You gotta admire that.

and hes been there a kajillion years... i cant remember where i read it but stoops has given much more back to OU (think library??)relative to his stay in Norman... stuff that in your vibrator and suck on it.

bottom line is, kids (non athletes) still flock to schools that have big names. if they have a shot at getting in, they will shoot for it and the admissions department at that point has their pick of the litter so to speak. pick of the litter equals higher ranking students. higher ranking students equals more stroke in the academic world and the hits keep rolling along...you can't tell me that a university doesn't have a glut of apps come in the year following a national championship win.

[Leroy Lizard]

As soon as OU is a top 100 university then you can gripe about pay, fair, right?

What kind of argument is that?

[Leroy Lizard]

Jello must be Stoops' financial advisor. I hope he doesn't put a hit out on me.

[Collier11]

What kind of argument is that?

Im just saying, the professors always gripe about how much money coaches make but OU isnt even a top 100 university, so why dont you all start performing better and you will get paid better, just a thought?

[Leroy Lizard]

Using your argument, what should Stoops be paid for this season's 7-5 record?

Also, if becoming a Top-100 university is the goal, then why are you paying a head football coach $5 million per year? Having a great football team is not going to launch you into the top 100 universities. How many of the top-100 are football powerhouses?

Besides, I don't think the faculty are complaining about their own pay. I think most of them feel their salary is adequate. I certainly didn't complain when I taught at OU. It's a matter of priorities.

BTW, this isn't about OU, but all head coaches.

[Soonersince57]

The pay is market driven, so an Athletic Department's total revenue is a side issue. OU may bring in $60 million; Texas $100 million; and Florida $40 million. But in the end, coaches salaries are competitive against each other and not based on a percentage of total revenues.

Faculty complain about everything while they may teach 2-4 classes per academic year, actually sit in their offices 2 or 3 hours a week, have grad assistants slaving away for them, and do consulting on the side to add to their income. Are the coaches salaries ridiculous? Yes, but I have little sympathy for faculty complaints (not that anyone could tell.:) )

[Collier11]

Its all based on where the AD was before Stoops and Mack, etc... and after, now people like Charlie Weiss getting a 10 yr deal when he hadnt accomplished anything, that is what is wrong with the profession

[Leroy Lizard]

The pay is market driven, so an Athletic Department's total revenue is a side issue. OU may bring in $60 million; Texas $100 million; and Florida $40 million. But in the end, coaches salaries are competitive against each other and not based on a percentage of total revenues.

Sure, we know the pay is market driven. No one is denying that. But athletic departments are supposed to be run as non-profits. Giving coaches huge bonuses when the team plays in bowl games doesn't sound like the behavior of a non-profit.

And since when are faculty members allowed to use their university relationship to market products? I couldn't. If I endorsed a product using the OU symbol I would have faced a serious reprimand from my department. So how do we allow coaches to pull off this stunt?


Faculty complain about everything while they may teach 2-4 classes per academic year, actually sit in their offices 2 or 3 hours a week, have grad assistants slaving away for them, and do consulting on the side to add to their income. Are the coaches salaries ridiculous? Yes, but I have little sympathy for faculty complaints (not that anyone could tell

I have taught at four universities. It is a tough job. Students don't see what we do on a normal basis. Writing grants and publishing research took up the time I had on campus and bled into my evenings and weekends.

Unfortunately, some of my colleagues in the liberal arts didn't share my commitment and skated through as easily as they could. Shame on them.

[Soonersince57]

I have taught at four universities. It is a tough job. Students don't see what we do on a normal basis. Writing grants and publishing research took up the time I had on campus and bled into my evenings and weekends.

Unfortunately, some of my colleagues in the liberal arts didn't share my commitment and skated through as easily as they could. Shame on them.

You are correct. My statement was too generalized. I know several faculty that are very hard working.

This complaint about coaches has no conclusion and will continue be with us.

[TopDawg]

I think there are two issues here.

One is about the exorbitant amount that college coaches are paid. While there might be a lot of faculty members who don't like the fact that college coaches are paid as much as they are, I think most of them understand why it happens.

But while the Mack Brown case is connected to that issue, I think it's different in an important way. This isn't about Brown making more than your average professor, it's about the regents giving Brown a $2 million RAISE during a time when probably everybody else at the school is being told to find ways to cut back.

[Leroy Lizard]

You are correct. My statement was too generalized. I know several faculty that are very hard working.

Those colleagues of mine that don't work hard? Screw 'em! They lower the respect the faculty deserves. I understand why we have tenure and I think we should keep it (at the college level), but if a prof habitually cancels classes or refuses to help students then they should be run out of town.


But while the Mack Brown case is connected to that issue, I think it's different in an important way. This isn't about Brown making more than your average professor, it's about the regents giving Brown a $2 million RAISE during a time when probably everybody else at the school is being told to find ways to cut back.

But I think the issues are tied. How is it that the athletic department can operate so independently in spirit from the rest of the university? Professors are told to perform furlough days; the coach gets a pay raise.

It's greed. These coaches don't consider themselves a part of the university. They're hired guns, and they will leave you in a hot flash if the nickel is shinier on the other side of the street.

The athletic department acts as a corporation and should be taxed as one.

[Collier11]

Let me ask you this Leroy, while some of these raises are far more than they need to be (example, Couldnt Mack have easily been given a $500,000 raise or even a $1 million raise as opposed to $2 mil?) when the Athletic Dept is running independently from the rest of the University and they pay their own bills as well as offer money to the school (this isnt all cases I realize but it is in OU and ut's case as well as some others) why shouldnt they be allowed to pay what they want/can afford?

[Jello Biafra]

Those colleagues of mine that don't work hard? Screw 'em! They lower the respect the faculty deserves. I understand why we have tenure and I think we should keep it (at the college level), but if a prof habitually cancels classes or refuses to help students then they should be run out of town.

i dont think it's lack of effort, i think it was animal house that did you guys in. just saying. o and your pompous asss attitudes. well, maybe it was just some of the classes i attended.

But I think the issues are tied. How is it that the athletic department can operate so independently in spirit from the rest of the university? Professors are told to perform furlough days; the coach gets a pay raise.

again, football good, bring money, notoriety, mucho tail

professors bad. bring inhalers, greasy hair. swirlies. bad breath

It's greed. These coaches don't consider themselves a part of the university. They're hired guns, and they will leave you in a hot flash if the nickel is shinier on the other side of the street.

and? they are being paid for their services. do you think you could teach home eco. better than the next jane? if you were better and you brought more...um.....er......blue ribbon thingies to the school then, kudos...here's your 1,000 dollar a year raise. you are replaceable. coaches worth a shiite typically aren't.

The athletic department acts as a corporation and should be taxed as one.
again, let us know when you get elected. we'll start giving a fat, smelly, tick infested, sewer rats asss


you and lid have got to be bangin each other.

[Leroy Lizard]

Fine. Just find a way to bring in players without scholarships. I have no problem with the athletic department acting on its own. But I want the players paying tuition, like all the other unfortunate souls.

How much is tuition at OU per year? Multiply that by all the athletes on athletic scholarships. What does that come out to... $3 million per year? That is lost revenue sucked away from the university to support the athletic department. So how can we simply say, "The athletic department should be allowed to make whatever it wants." No other department on campus is allowed to operate like that.

[Collier11]

do you know for certain that the AD doesnt cover the cost of those schollys?

[Leroy Lizard]

again, football good, bring money, notoriety, mucho tail

I try to keep things civil, but sometimes I just gotta say it: You're an idiot.

[Leroy Lizard]

do you know for certain that the AD doesnt cover the cost of those schollys?

That I'm not so sure. But it isn't like the players are only taking courses offered in the AD.

[Jello Biafra]

I try to keep things civil, but sometimes I just gotta say it: You're an idiot.

and? that's bad, i guess?

look dude. I played football there for one semester. got booted (because of grades )and i moved on. i graduated from southern nazarene some 15 years later with a 3.6 GPA. they tried to get me to go out for the team there. it simply brings money to the school period. if Southern Nazarene had enough money and exposure, i would assume, they wouldn't need to jump into the football game and try and recruit 30 somethings with eligibility to bring their game up to speed.

try to follow along. its similar to a tax base. football (and sports in general) bring in students. more students bring in more money and less of you pompus shiitebirds sitting around with you thumbs stuck in yer asss (talking amongst yourselves trying to convince your colleagues of how much brain power you posess) and actually teaching instead of trying to convince the outside world it is ludicruthhh to pay a football coach more than a professor. wins brings notoriety and brand recognition to the school which in turn, brings in more students again, lifting your "tax base". if YOU were bringin in an inordinate amount of students (see higher tax base) because you taught a monkey to give his mate the fishhook...well, you get the picture.

[John Kochtoston]

Fine. Just find a way to bring in players without scholarships. I have no problem with the athletic department acting on its own. But I want the players paying tuition, like all the other unfortunate souls.

How much is tuition at OU per year? Multiply that by all the athletes on athletic scholarships. What does that come out to... $3 million per year? That is lost revenue sucked away from the university to support the athletic department. So how can we simply say, "The athletic department should be allowed to make whatever it wants." No other department on campus is allowed to operate like that.

The athletic department at OU pays for scholarships. Those don't come from the general fund. I'm pretty sure it's that way at all other D1 schools.

Which makes the athletic dept. at OU turning a profit all the more impressive, since, as our whorn friends love to point out, OU has a ton of out of state athletes, which means the AD has to pay twice as much for their schollies.

[Leroy Lizard]

No one is saying the AD doesn't make money. But if it really wants to be a part of the university like all other departments, it needs to act more like a real school and not a corporation.

Schools don't allow faculty to whore themselves out like coaches.

Schools don't give outrageous bonuses to faculty when the school comes by a windfall.

My suggestion to ADs? If you want to act like a corporation, then pay taxes like a corporation. If you want to be an integral component of the university, then start acting like it.

[Jello Biafra]

No one is saying the AD doesn't make money. But if it really wants to be a part of the university like all other departments, it needs to act more like a real school and not a corporation.

Schools don't allow faculty to whore themselves out like coaches.

Schools don't give outrageous bonuses to faculty when the school comes by a windfall.

My suggestion to ADs? If you want to act like a corporation, then pay taxes like a corporation. If you want to be an integral component of the university, then start acting like it.

so which department actually looks and acts like the athletic department? paying the light bills in the lecture hall or replacing the AV equipment in said lecture hall? and how does it match up to say... paying for electricity for a night game on national television? or maybe paying a staff of 400 or so to keep things running smoothly during the game?

btw, id bet BIG money that a good portion of the money flowing into the athletic department is going straight to the university itself. if it didn't, we would have little to no need for the big donors.

[Leroy Lizard]

Remind me to look into Southern Nazarene's accreditation.

[TopDawg]

if YOU were bringin in an inordinate amount of students (see higher tax base) because you taught a monkey to give his mate the fishhook...well, you get the picture.

Let's say Leroy does bring in an inordinate amount of students, and money, because he taught a monkey to give his mate the fishhook.

I've gotta think that the faculty would still voice their concern if he got a $2 million raise while everyone else is being told to find ways to cut back. Especially if he was already making $3 million and wasn't threatening to leave.

[Collier11]

Is Leroy teaching the students how to hook or be hooked, that could be the deciding factor in the size of the raise?

[Jello Biafra]

Remind me to look into Southern Nazarene's accreditation.

don't care. do what you will. i gots mine.


pompous

azz

clown

[Jello Biafra]

Let's say Leroy does bring in an inordinate amount of students, and money, because he taught a monkey to give his mate the fishhook.

I've gotta think that the faculty would still voice their concern if he got a $2 million raise while everyone else is being told to find ways to cut back. Especially if he was already making $3 million and wasn't threatening to leave.

so what if he brought in an extra 1000 students in because of his advances in monkey mating and then he teaches the next generation to not only use the famed fish hook, but then gets the offspring to use the beutiful rearadmiral as well as the aerol flynn???? and as a result, gets another 3k students to sign up? now what? so he gets 4k total students to attend an otherwise boring zoological department...said department gets an extra 5 million in grant money to further the experiments...now the professor says" without me, you will never see another spectacle like this" the board of regency says "you're right. we need to get a perma spot on youtube...give him his money"

[Leroy Lizard]

Who's the biggest fundraiser on campus? David Boren, at around $200,000,000 a year. He makes $383,000 a year.

The President of Harvard only makes $600,000 a year, and the amount of money he raises every year dwarfs that of OU.

Now, does it make sense to give $5 million per year to a guy whose "department" only brings in $30 million?

[TopDawg]

so what if he brought in an extra 1000 students in because of his advances in monkey mating and then he teaches the next generation to not only use the famed fish hook, but then gets the offspring to use the beutiful rearadmiral as well as the aerol flynn???? and as a result, gets another 3k students to sign up? now what? so he gets 4k total students to attend an otherwise boring zoological department...said department gets an extra 5 million in grant money to further the experiments...now the professor says" without me, you will never see another spectacle like this" the board of regency says "you're right. we need to get a perma spot on youtube...give him his money"

So you'd stand up for this guy and the people who made the decision if he was singled out as being the only person to receive a $2 million raise in a time of cutbacks?

[John Kochtoston]

btw, id bet BIG money that a good portion of the money flowing into the athletic department is going straight to the university itself. if it didn't, we would have little to no need for the big donors.

I'll take that bet.

[Collier11]

Who's the biggest fundraiser on campus? David Boren, at around $200,000,000 a year. He makes $383,000 a year.

The President of Harvard only makes $600,000 a year, and the amount of money he raises every year dwarfs that of OU.

Now, does it make sense to give $5 million per year to a guy whose "department" only brings in $30 million?

You dont think Stoops does any fundraising? Have you seen the improvements to Owen Field lately?

[BASSooner]

You dont think Stoops does any fundraising? Have you seen the improvements to Owen Field lately?

Not satisfied. Dome the stadium


;)

[missann]

Who's the biggest fundraiser on campus? David Boren, at around $200,000,000 a year. He makes $383,000 a year.


But Boren's fundraising task is much easier when Bob Stoops is winning.

[Jello Biafra]

So you'd stand up for this guy and the people who made the decision if he was singled out as being the only person to receive a $2 million raise in a time of cutbacks?

if he was bringing us monkey fuggin national championsheeps? umm yeh. you can never overlook the nicely placed fish hook dude. NEVER.






EVER.

[Jello Biafra]

But Boren's fundraising task is much easier when Bob Stoops is winning.

weener weener cheeckeen deener.

[John Kochtoston]

But Boren's fundraising task is much easier when Bob Stoops is winning.

Boren raised $500 million from 1995-2000, the most ever raised in an Oklahoma-based fundraising campaign (at the time, at least). And the campaign ended before OU went 13-0 on the year and 13-2 in the Orange Bowl. Just sayin'.

[Leroy Lizard]

Once again, John nails it.

The man who brings in the most money is David Boren, and it isn't even close. There is no rational financial reason to pay Stoops ten times Boren's salary.

Head coaching salaries have nothing to do with financial wisdom.

[ashley]

Sure, we know the pay is market driven. No one is denying that. But athletic departments are supposed to be run as non-profits. Giving coaches huge bonuses when the team plays in bowl games doesn't sound like the behavior of a non-profit.

And since when are faculty members allowed to use their university relationship to market products? I couldn't. If I endorsed a product using the OU symbol I would have faced a serious reprimand from my department. So how do we allow coaches to pull off this stunt?



I have taught at four universities. It is a tough job. Students don't see what we do on a normal basis. Writing grants and publishing research took up the time I had on campus and bled into my evenings and weekends.

Unfortunately, some of my colleagues in the liberal arts didn't share my commitment and skated through as easily as they could. Shame on them.

You finally said, or admitted you were a college professor. That's all I needed to know. If you had wanted to make 3 to 5M a year you should have been a football coach. My two best friends are a doctor and a lawyer. If I wanted to make their money I should have been majored it that stuff. Their salary is not their fault, it is mine.

[John Kochtoston]

You finally said, or admitted you were a college professor. That's all I needed to know. If you had wanted to make 3 to 5M a year you should have been a football coach. My two best friends are a doctor and a lawyer. If I wanted to make their money I should have been majored it that stuff. Their salary is not their fault, it is mine.

So folks that have experience with a university and a first-hand knowledge of how funding for a university works are ineligible to comment about pay disparity?

[Leroy Lizard]

You finally said, or admitted you were a college professor. That's all I needed to know. If you had wanted to make 3 to 5M a year you should have been a football coach. My two best friends are a doctor and a lawyer. If I wanted to make their money I should have been majored it that stuff. Their salary is not their fault, it is mine.

Ashley, try to follow the conversation. No one is saying that the faculty thinks it should be paid $5M a year.

[ashley]

Ashley, try to follow the conversation. No one is saying that the faculty thinks it should be paid $5M a year.

Look guys, this is about market value, like it or not. Mack Brown is just like Elvis or Modanna and if you would get in the real world you would realize this. You guys watch too much MSNBC.

[Collier11]

Not satisfied. Dome the stadium


;)

Pay him more :D

[cdlbdd]

if you would get in the real world you would realize this

What is this real world you speak of?

[John Kochtoston]

Look guys, this is about market value, like it or not. Mack Brown is just like Elvis or Modanna and if you would get in the real world you would realize this. You guys watch too much MSNBC.

In the real world, when adults talk, you pay attention to them.

No one is arguing Brown's market value isn't $5 million. The argument is the market is out of whack with this real value.

If someone offered me a job that paid $4-5 M per year, and it wasn't immoral or illegal, I'd take it in a second. If it was immoral or illegal, I'd probably take it in two seconds. So, I don't blame Bob Stoops or Mack Brown a bit for their salaries. I do contend that their salaries are not in line with the value they bring to their universities, and the only reason they get them is fear they'll go somewhere else to get them.

[cdlbdd]

In the real world, when adults talk, you pay attention to them.

POW POW!

[sooneron]

you and lid have got to be bangin each other.

After your above quotes, I find it amusing that your sig is "Live On University". Shouldn't it be "Live On Football Team" ? srsly.

[Leroy Lizard]

No, it should be "Liv on Footbal Teem"

[Jello Biafra]

After your above quotes, I find it amusing that your sig is "Live On University". Shouldn't it be "Live On Football Team" ? srsly.

what ever. i feel the same way about the rest of the sports teams but, if it helps you sleep better at night...

my whole point is, they are never going to pay a fuggin professor 5 million a year. EVER so he needs to shut his man pleaser.

[cdlbdd]

they are never going to pay a fuggin professor 5 million a year. EVER

I have yet to hear a professor ask for 5 million a year.

[Collier11]

I doubt Mack asked for $5 mil

[TopDawg]

my whole point is, they are never going to pay a fuggin professor 5 million a year. EVER so he needs to shut his man pleaser.

JB (and ashley) you have to get past this point. That's not what the faculty are upset about. If the faculty are upset that they don't get the same pay as Mack, there would've been a huge uproar when he signed his original contract and every pay raise since then.

The problem is that the regents are telling the academic side "Find ways to cut your budget. We need to figure out how to educate these kids just as well, but with fewer resources." Then they turn around and give Mack a $2 million raise. And what Collier said makes it even curiouser. In a time of cutbacks, if Mack isn't asking for $5 mill...and isn't a threat to leave...why give him a $2 million raise?

If you worked hard for a company and had just heard from your boss that there was going to be an indefinite pay freeze and possible furloughs, and then he turned around and gave a 67% raise to the person who is already making excessively more money than everybody else in the company, would you be okay with that?

[Jello Biafra]

JB (and ashley) you have to get past this point. That's not what the faculty are upset about. If the faculty are upset that they don't get the same pay as Mack, there would've been a huge uproar when he signed his original contract and every pay raise since then.

The problem is that the regents are telling the academic side "Find ways to cut your budget. We need to figure out how to educate these kids just as well, but with fewer resources." Then they turn around and give Mack a $2 million raise. And what Collier said makes it even curiouser. In a time of cutbacks, if Mack isn't asking for $5 mill...and isn't a threat to leave...why give him a $2 million raise?

If you worked hard for a company and had just heard from your boss that there was going to be an indefinite pay freeze and possible furloughs, and then he turned around and gave a 67% raise to the person who is already making excessively more money than everybody else in the company, would you be okay with that?


its simple, to me anyway, leave. no use in fighting a losing battle. if texas is stupid enough to pay it and advertise it, then they deserve to lose profs. EVERY school in DIV 1 is fighting this battle and they don't want to be the one who gets caught holding the bag and losing a winning coach. if the university had the nutsack, they would go to the AD and ask for money to help fund and take care of the fan base (the students and the proffesors that teach your future minions) kind of like, you scratch our back, we'll scarthc yours. i have heard (in the past and im sure now as well) that stoops gives back a bunch of his cash to the school. and quite frankly, OU is the only school im concerned about even a little bit. you can't worry about what everyone else is doing. as long as your nose is clean, you don't have to look in the mirror every 10 minutes to see if there are bats in the cave.


im sitting back and :pop: texas is fittin to screw the pooch and im eagerly waiting the after effects. they have a coach in waiting who(imo) is the future of texas football and they just gave an outlandish raise to a mediocre coach who is not about to walk away from a salary like that. its not like clown is an ancient bird. i bet the (ahem) coach in waiting walks.

while we're on this subject, anyone wonder why texas has such a large fan base and student enrollment and as a result has more money draw from? think it has anything to do with the fact that they have more students on the main campus than we have at our main and satellite campuses? mo' money mo' money mo' money!

[Sasakwa]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004574600051780005902.html?m od=article-outset-box


While revenue at many big-time college football programs has fallen or stayed flat last season, revenue at the University of Texas—which comes from things like ticket sales and suite rentals—jumped by 20% last year to $87.6 million, the most ever generated by a college football program and almost $20 million more than second-place Ohio State University pulled in.

So revenue is up 20% to $87.6 mil. I think they can afford an extra $2 mil which he was going to get as a bonus anyway.

[Jello Biafra]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704541004574600051780005902.html?m od=article-outset-box



So revenue is up 20% to $87.6 mil. I think they can afford an extra $2 mil which he was going to get as a bonus anyway.

so while all this is being said, sounds as if the BOARD needs to jjump in and negotiate some of of the fundage their way

[Sasakwa]

anyone wonder why texas has such a large fan base and student enrollment and as a result has more money draw from? think it has anything to do with the fact that they have more students on the main campus than we have at our main and satellite campuses? mo' money mo' money mo' money!

From that same WSJ Article above....


One advantage Texas has over many schools is that the school has some 500,000 alumni still living in the state

Interesting that Ohio St is second in revenue and they are a huge school (enrollment-wise) as well.

[TopDawg]

its simple, to me anyway, leave. no use in fighting a losing battle.

Well, I can understand why they'd want to stay and why they'd want to raise concerns about the regents' actions. And I think it's reasonable. I don't think any of them expect to make $5 million a year, but I think they do expect the regents to be more discerning with the way they split up the pieces of the pie. Maybe there's nothing the faculty can do about it this time, but maybe their actions will keep it from happening in the future or put more pressure on Mack to give part of that back to the university...perhaps more than he would've otherwise.

[Jello Biafra]

Well, I can understand why they'd want to stay and why they'd want to raise concerns about the regents' actions. And I think it's reasonable. I don't think any of them expect to make $5 million a year, but I think they do expect the regents to be more discerning with the way they split up the pieces of the pie. Maybe there's nothing the faculty can do about it this time, but maybe their actions will keep it from happening in the future or put more pressure on Mack to give part of that back to the university...perhaps more than he would've otherwise.

very true. i think it really falls on the coach (s) to be responsible and loyal to the school...if they are a true SCHOOL supporter...they will try to give back to the fans(students and faculty) if they are in it for them, well maybe thay are looking for the next big windfall

[TopDawg]

I'm with you on the football stuff you said. Feeling pretty good about Alabama's chances and I think the longer Mack stays there, the better. I feel like he's a pretty good ambassador for the school, a good representative of the football program and a darn good coach...but I think Muschamp will take them up a notch on the field and I'm not excited about that.

One other thing that I'm not excited about is that I fully expect Brown to announce that he's giving a big chunk of this raise back to the school. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that sometime right before the national title game, meaning we'd have to hear about how great a guy he is.

[Leroy Lizard]

EVERY school in DIV 1 is fighting this battle and they don't want to be the one who gets caught holding the bag and losing a winning coach.

Mack was not going to leave if he didn't get his raise.

And that is the point. Coaches are paid so exorbitantly that throwing $2 million their way is considered by the AD no big deal.

The problem isn't just Mack, or Stoops. This all points to a perverse emphasis on winning football games.

Some have tried to explain it away by bringing up the money coach's raise, but we have already pointed out that Boren brings in tons more and he doesn't get such windfalls.

Face it, a $5 million salary for any head coach is ridiculous. There can only be one explanation: The university values winning football games above all else. And this is true of UT, OU, USC, tOSU... all of powerhouses.

So, I think the faculty has a right to complain. I would complain too. (I now teach at a school without a major football team, and I like it.)

[Collier11]

That makes no sense at all Leroy, why the hell would you have athletics if you dont want to win?

[TopDawg]

Face it, a $5 million salary for any head coach is ridiculous. There can only be one explanation: The university values winning football games above all else.

Do you think they value winning football games or making money and getting positive attention? I mean, I agree that they value winning football games very highly, but I don't think it's because they think there is some sort of inherent value in winning football games. I think it's because winning football games makes money and gets them positive attention...and THAT is what they value.

[Jello Biafra]

leezroy,

you've got to admit...noone sees someone wearing an OU football hoodie and think " i wonder if that kid is an engineering major"


this is a turning point in college football and i think the powers are trying to distance themselves from the rootie poots by throwing money at the problem (of the rest of college football catching up). the way they handled it in the past was to simply throw out as many schollies as the school could afford and the NCAA stepped in and limited it to all schools at 85. question is, who is going to step in and say "all you can spend on a coaching staff is 2 million a year" ?


my personal feeling? mack is taking that extra money and handing it out to his staff as an NC bonus. to help keep them around and not taking off for a better gig other places.

[Leroy Lizard]

my personal feeling? mack is taking that extra money and handing it out to his staff as an NC bonus. to help keep them around and not taking off for a better gig other places.

I don't think he can do that. Not only would it possibly violate Texas law but it could end up as an NCAA violation.

[Leroy Lizard]

TopDawg, I think they all go hand in hand. It isn't so much the winning, but the glory.

[Leroy Lizard]

That makes no sense at all Leroy, why the hell would you have athletics if you dont want to win?

Well, I said "winning above all else."

[Collier11]

I would say that Stoops has gone to great efforts to get the academics up to par, I know they have struggled at times within the football team but Stoops has really pushed it from what I hear?

[Jello Biafra]

I don't think he can do that. Not only would it possibly violate Texas law but it could end up as an NCAA violation.

riiight because texas would be above ANYTHING that would approach unlawful or unethical..

[sooneron]

what ever. i feel the same way about the rest of the sports teams but, if it helps you sleep better at night...

my whole point is, they are never going to pay a fuggin professor 5 million a year. EVER so he needs to shut his man pleaser.

LOL!

Okay, maybe it should be LIVE ON ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT. Because everything you have been saying seems to connotate your dislike for the actual "University" of Oklahoma. Of course, your failure to make grades at OU probably has something to do with your c. 1950's view of professors.

[soonerscuba]

LOL!

Okay, maybe it should be LIVE ON ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT. Because everything you have been saying seems to connotate your dislike for the actual "University" of Oklahoma. Of course, your failure to make grades at OU probably has something to do with your c. 1950's view of professors.Yeah, this thread makes it pretty obvious who roots for the football team and who roots for the university. There isn't a thing wrong with not being an alumni and loving the Sooners, but you should probably keep your opinions to yourself as far as the university's management is concerned.

[Jello Biafra]

LOL!

Okay, maybe it should be LIVE ON ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT. Because everything you have been saying seems to connotate your dislike for the actual "University" of Oklahoma. Of course, your failure to make grades at OU probably has something to do with your c. 1950's view of professors.

nope. you got it wrong. Me making terrible decisions and not going to class and getting booted from the team had everything to do with me, not the professors. but, don't stand here in this forum and act like the proffessors are the ones who make this school tick. absolutely noone in this state (outside of the kids in the class) know when Dr. Pat macrotch is teaching underwater basket weaving. but most damn sure know when the bowl game is on and what events are leading up to kickoff.

profs teach the future leaders of the school, state and nation and i agree they deserve SOME attention. but, you want ME to be on your side, get your self righteous, self serving asss about 20 miles north and fix okc public schools. those coksmokers feel like it aint a thang at all if they have 14 commisioners and all of them are making 250k a piece.

you signed up to be a professor and you knew what that job entailed. if it requires you to write a few books, try to get funding for the school program or dance on a fuggin pole on saturday nights, get hot or leave. you knew it when you signed the contract. right?

who gives a mcshiite sandwich if the big bad jocks and their department are raking in a kaffillion bucks playin da foosball. do something to bring that kind of money to your department and i bet they don't ask you to cut funding or "teach better with less"

[Jello Biafra]

and by the way scuba, me being an alum has zero to do with this conversation. i left more blood on that practice field than you have in a toilet with your combined periods. so screw you AND that attitude of yours.

[Collier11]

I graduated from OU and I can tell you first hand that the majority of professors would rather be somewhere else, and most are, the majority of my profs taught 1-3 classes a semester with only a few exceptions. OU is more about status and advancing a career than it is caring about your students, atleast in my experiences.

[TopDawg]

you signed up to be a professor and you knew what that job entailed. if it requires you to write a few books, try to get funding for the school program or dance on a fuggin pole on saturday nights, get hot or leave. you knew it when you signed the contract. right?

who gives a mcshiite sandwich if the big bad jocks and their department are raking in a kaffillion bucks playin da foosball. do something to bring that kind of money to your department and i bet they don't ask you to cut funding or "teach better with less"

There's no doubt that you're supporting the stance of "Hey professors, this is the way it is. If you don't like it...leave."

But I think what some of us are saying is that the university should say "Hey, Mack, we're not giving you a $2 million raise during a tough economic time because although we love winning football games, it's not what we're about. If $3 million/year isn't enough for you, leave. I'm sure we can find someone else to come in for $3 million and still win 2 conference championships per decade."

[TopDawg]

I graduated from OU and I can tell you first hand that the majority of professors would rather be somewhere else,

You personally found out that more than 50% of the professors would rather be somewhere else?

[Collier11]

I meant the majority of professors that I had, come on TD...you know what I meant ;)

[Collier11]

That is still 4-5 a semester for 4 years which is about 30+, minus a few that I had in repeat classes

[Leroy Lizard]

Jello, your arguments are all over the place. Now you bring up Oklahoma City Public Schools, as if that district has anything to do with this discussion.

You seem incapable of structuring an argument or even following what has taken place.

What was your major in college?

[Leroy Lizard]

That is still 4-5 a semester for 4 years which is about 30+, minus a few that I had in repeat classes

And exactly how did you measure this 'desire to leave'?

[soonerscuba]

and by the way scuba, me being an alum has zero to do with this conversation. i left more blood on that practice field than you have in a toilet with your combined periods. so screw you AND that attitude of yours.I left with a degree and the ability to see irony in your sig, which is worth quite a bit more than your blood.

[Collier11]

I didnt say their desire to leave, I said they would rather be somewhere else, what I meant by that was that the majority of my professors didnt care about their students or their well being, they cared about themselves and their paycheck

[Leroy Lizard]

I didnt say their desire to leave, I said they would rather be somewhere else, what I meant by that was that the majority of my professors didnt care about their students or their well being, they cared about themselves and their paycheck

I don't see how being uncaring translates into wanting to be somewhere else.

What does any of this have to do with the conversation?

[Jello Biafra]

There's no doubt that you're supporting the stance of "Hey professors, this is the way it is. If you don't like it...leave."

But I think what some of us are saying is that the university should say "Hey, Mack, we're not giving you a $2 million raise during a tough economic time because although we love winning football games, it's not what we're about. If $3 million/year isn't enough for you, leave. I'm sure we can find someone else to come in for $3 million and still win 2 conference championships per decade."

werd...we spent a lot of time arguing/discussing this topic and all that had to be said was this ^^^ lol

[Jello Biafra]

Jello, your arguments are all over the place. Now you bring up Oklahoma City Public Schools, as if that district has anything to do with this discussion.

You seem incapable of structuring an argument or even following what has taken place.

What was your major in college?

im saying, dooshhammer, that there are other positions out there that you can show your asss as being "the man" without having to stomp your feet and say "no fair" take okc public schools for instance...see how that works?


examples of other things the profs who are being sadly mistreated can do with their lives.

[Leroy Lizard]

im saying, dooshhammer, that there are other positions out there that you can show your asss as being "the man" without having to stomp your feet and say "no fair" take okc public schools for instance...see how that works?

That is one stupid argument.

[Collier11]

I don't see how being uncaring translates into wanting to be somewhere else.

What does any of this have to do with the conversation?

I was commenting on what JB said, and I dont see how you cant understand how being uncaring translates into wanting to be somewhere else...do I really need to break it down further for you?

[Leroy Lizard]

It's quite possible for someone not to care about their jobs and still be happy with where they are. I mean, c'mon.

[Collier11]

Alright Leroy, listen...what I am saying is this, the vast majority of my personal professors didnt give a sh*t about the students and didnt give a sh*t about how they did, if you are going to teach, whether it is grade school or grad school, you should care about your students. Pretty simple

[cdlbdd]

Alright Leroy, listen...what I am saying is this, the vast majority of my personal professors didnt give a sh*t about the students and didnt give a sh*t about how they did, if you are going to teach, whether it is grade school or grad school, you should care about your students. Pretty simple

When and where did you go to school, and what was your major?

[Collier11]

if you would take the time to read even one page ago I have stated several times where I went to school

[Jacie]

if you would take the time to read even one page ago I have stated several times where I went to school

Yes, but you failed to list your overall GPA, your major GPA, where you lived, organizations you belonged to, the number of times you got puking drunk plus the number of time you got laid (leading to the ever-so-important drunk-to-laid ratio) and whether or not you ever streaked during your academic career.

[cdlbdd]

if you would take the time to read even one page ago I have stated several times where I went to school

My bad.

If you would take the time to read the post you quoted you would notice that was 1 of 3 pieces of information I requested.

I'm curious which department to steer clear of.

[Collier11]

Well I graduated nearly 4 yrs ago and have no current knowledge of how things are, the two colleges that most of my classes were in was the College of Education and the College of Liberal Arts at OU.

[Leroy Lizard]

Collier, my personal interaction with liberal arts professors has not left me impressed with their work ethic. When I was at OU (as a student), they habitually canceled classes. On the other hand, I don't think I have missed a single class this decade, although when sick I have had to shut down office hours a time or two.

This is worthy of a study for some undergraduate sociology research project. Log the number of missed classes by discipline. I can almost tell you how they will rank.

How about this for a idea? Log the number of missed classes by the number of degrees listed after the prof's name. I bet they are proportional.