Cameron Newton

[goingoneight]

Dear Dave Sittler,

When a Heisman winner declares for the draft, you tend to sign a guy or two to make up for the loss on the depth chart. Seeing how Sam can't play QB at OU, being in the NFL and all.

[SouthFortySooner]

Can he play center?

[LSUdeek]

He left fla after some leagl issues. He was accused of stealing a laptop, but it was never proven.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3718266

Bad move by OU; but they've been taking some flyers on questionable character guys for a couple of years now.

[picasso]

Cam Newton was third at Florida behind Brantley. He throws worse than Landry. He's getting attention because teams hope he's a Vince Young v.2, which is not the case, and is also why he's playing at a JUCO after Florida, not a D-I school in another conference.

It's disappointing to see Oklahoma going after him. It looks like the staff is hoping to get some Florida voodoo by getting someone that played for them (not the case, I am aware, but it looks ridiculous in addition to actually being ridiculous).

Yes, I'm sure he's terrible. Why else would we have offered him?

[picasso]

[url]

Bad move by OU; but they've been taking some flyers on questionable character guys for a couple of years now.
There's that and the fact that we've also booted some questionable character guys who would have most certainly helped us.

Yeah, don't forget that part Zeke.

[Soonerwake]

Can he play center?

That's funny right there...:D

[okiedokie]

Did Cam make any annoucement today? I heard he was choosing between us and the Miss Bulldogs? just curious as we need the competition at qb.

[Eielson]

Bad move by OU; but they've been taking some flyers on questionable character guys for a couple of years now.

Such as?

[okiedokie]

"No one thought Sam, Josh or Jason were going to turnout like they did."

Bob Stoops did.

[VA Sooner]

Can he play center next week?

[madillsoonerfan5353]

So did he sign with us?

[picasso]

Word is he will announce tomorrow or next week. Betwixt us and Auburn.

[gaylordfan1]

???????? Mr Newton, we are waiting.........

[soonerfromgeorgia]

As a Sooner fan who watched Cam Newton play in person when he was in High School, we want no part of this kid because he is trouble.
I watched him run onto the field leading his team before a playoff game and run within 10 or 15 yards of our side line thumping his chest and taunting our coaches and players. Our team went on to beat his *** as he threw the ball out of bounds on 4th down to stop the clock ????
When I saw he had stolen the computer at Fla (I'm 4 hrs north of Gainesville), I wasn't surprised because he has no character !

If he comes to Norman, you'll be disappointed soon.

[Sooner4FCD]

Sounds like your opinion is completely unbiased

[Leroy Lizard]

Newton was Tim Tebow's backup at Florida before he was suspended for stealing laptops

I hope he picks Auburn.

[misplacedsooner]

not me, i want him here. if a kid makes mistakes and actually learns from them then he has built himself up as a person. i will be willing to give the kid a 2nd chance, looks like he has kept a clean nose so far to be given this opportunity.

[Curly Bill]

As a Sooner fan who watched Cam Newton play in person when he was in High School, we want no part of this kid because he is trouble.
I watched him run onto the field leading his team before a playoff game and run within 10 or 15 yards of our side line thumping his chest and taunting our coaches and players. Our team went on to beat his *** as he threw the ball out of bounds on 4th down to stop the clock ????
When I saw he had stolen the computer at Fla (I'm 4 hrs north of Gainesville), I wasn't surprised because he has no character !

If he comes to Norman, you'll be disappointed soon.

Wow! A high school kid that acts full of himself, what a shocker! :rolleyes:

[Leroy Lizard]

if a kid makes mistakes and actually learns from them then he has built himself up as a person.

You don't build yourself up as a person by stealing other people's belongs.

It's not a mere mistake to steal laptops. He knew it was illegal when he did it. He didn't care.

Now, if he had stolen the laptops, thought about it, then returned the laptops and accepted the consequences... that would be different.

Let's recruit good kids. We don't need thieves on our team, especially given the problems we have had in the past.

[soonerfromgeorgia]

How many HS players have you seen run to within 10 feet of a opposing coaching staff before a game holding his jersey out and hitting himself in the chest ? His head was moving back and forth, I can only assume he was running his mouth.

[misplacedsooner]

no you dont but you learn from mistakes made, have you made none? or have you never done something you knew was wrong?? i know i have and i learned from them.
as far as him beating his chest...a big game, emotions run high, some people talk more than others, i know i used to be quite a talker in high school and college both playing basketball, didnt make me a bad person.

[Leroy Lizard]

no you dont but you learn from mistakes made, have you made none?

Oh, I have made plenty of mistakes, that is, made a choice that I thought was the right thing to do at the time, but turned out to not be the case.

What does that have to do with thievery?


as far as him beating his chest...a big game, emotions run high, some people talk more than others, i know i used to be quite a talker in high school and college both playing basketball, didnt make me a bad person.

We used to call players like that ***holes. It's a prime example of what was considered poor sportsmanship.

But today, a player can take a whizz on another and it's acceptable. Times have changed, and that's too bad.

[BoulderSooner79]

I wasn't impressed with that short video of Newton. The players on both teams looked closer to HS level competition than D1 college. And when Newton scored, he did the standard taunting/posing that draws a flag every time in the big12. Combining that with his UF past, it just makes me nervous. I just have to accept that Stoops has done the proper interviewing to feel the kid would be a positive addition if he came our way.

[Leroy Lizard]

To me, I don't think the decision rests on whether he gets in any more trouble. I don't care.

To many posters, they either don't care about the personal character of our players or consider it just a caculated gamble as to whether they will get in more trouble.

To me, a scholarship is a reward for performing well athletically and academically and being of good character. Get in trouble, and you don't get one.

He stole, so screw him. Give the schollie to someone more deserving of it, a good person.

[BoulderSooner79]

It's not just the calculated gamble of future problems for all of us (at least not me). I honestly believe people should get more than one chance in life - especially young people. But that doesn't mean I support bringing anyone - you have to look at the severity of what went wrong. For you (LL), stealing a laptop is over the line. For me, I don't know enough about the circumstances. Also for me, bringing a gun onto a school campus is *way* over the line (Jarboe). If I were coach I would dig deep to make sure that one transgression is not really a long series of problems that have been covered up. I would also limit the number of kids on the team with a strike or 2 just due to the reality they will require more attention.

[Boomer!!]

To me, I don't think the decision rests on whether he gets in any more trouble. I don't care.

To many posters, they either don't care about the personal character of our players or consider it just a caculated gamble as to whether they will get in more trouble.

To me, a scholarship is a reward for performing well athletically and academically and being of good character. Get in trouble, and you don't get one.

He stole, so screw him. Give the schollie to someone more deserving of it, a good person.

So quick to judge when we do not even know the whole truth.I say bring him on, everyone deserves a second chance. I would not be where I am now if someone would not have given me a second chance.

[Leroy Lizard]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2008/11/backup-qb-camer.html


University of Florida police arrested sophomore quarterback Cameron Newton on Friday afternoon for felony charges of buglary, larceny and obstruction of justice, according to Alachua County jail records.

Newton has been suspended from the team, according to football team spokesman Steve McClain.

According to others in here, he should have been given a second chance. So steal, steal, steal! It's okay.


Newton allegedly stole a Dell laptop from a UF student’s dorm room and then threw it out of the window when University Police Department officers visited Newton’s dorm today, according to the UPD arrest report. Newton was booked at 2:25 p.m. after the alleged buglary was reported on Oct. 16, according to the report.

Police found out via the university’s computer network that someone had logged onto the student-friendly Gatorlink system with the laptop under the identification "cnewton," according to the report. Newton, 19, signed a waiver form Friday allowing the police to view his Dell computer, which appeared to have been painted black and had the spelling "Cam Newton" in white painted letters on the lid, according to the report.

The serial number from the computer in Newton’s dorm matched all but one of the seven digits from the code the UF student said belonged to his estimated $1,700 computer, according to the report. The computer in Newton’s dorm had the letter "Q" instead of the student’s "2," according to the report.

The officers stepped away from Newton’s room to call and ask the student if the serial numbers matched, but the computer was gone when they returned to Newton’s room, according to the report.

So, when given the chance to come clean, he tried to destroy the evidence. How would you like to be that student, losing your laptop while attending a university?

A student could have had term papers on that laptop, and could have had his or her academic record hurt.

You think Cam cared?


The computer was later found by a garbage dumpster outside of the Springs Complex, where Newton lived on the third floor, according to the report.

Newton, who is unavailable for comment, is a medical redshirt candidate who hasn’t played since the season opener against Hawaii because of an ankle injury. Newton (2-of-4 passing, 14 yards on the year) and redshirt freshman John Brantley battled for the backup quarterback job in the preseason.
...

Gainesville-based lawyer Huntley Johnson said he plans to represent Newton on a Saturday morning court appearance and hopes Newton is released on his own recognizance.

"It’s too early to comment on the case at this point," Johnson said.

[boomermagic]

Bring him on !

[TXBOOMER]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_uf/2008/11/backup-qb-camer.html

You think Cam cared?

I don't think he did. I don't either. Neither does Bob, that is why he is offering him a skollie! Dude got booted to a JC. It is time for a chance. If he blows the chance it is on him.

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't think he did. I don't either.

I know you don't care about that student who had his or her laptop stolen. And that's our problem with society today.

If it was up to me (and it isn't), Cam wouldn't be able to play for OU because he would still be in jail. And I mean that seriously.

[SoonerLB]

I'm with Leroy, send him to Miami so he can play with other criminals.

[misplacedsooner]

my feeling exactly, the kids made a bad mistake, if he screws up again get him gone...providing he even comes. i hope he surprises us all and is a good kid. he did wrong, its in his past, lets see how he acts now and what he has learned.

[Leroy Lizard]

Good kids don't steal other people's belongings.

They just don't.

[TXBOOMER]

I know you don't care about that student who had his or her laptop stolen. And that's our problem with society today.

If it was up to me (and it isn't), Cam wouldn't be able to play for OU because he would still be in jail. And I mean that seriously.

That isn't reality. Stealing a laptop is a bad thing (I totally agree). It wasn't endangering society such as a DWI, Rape or Violent act. He faced the consequence of being booted off of UF and had to go play at a JC. He evidently, has kept his nose clean and has earned a second chance. If he blows it he needs to be booted again.

[TXBOOMER]

Good kids don't steal other people's belongings.

They just don't.

Many super athletes are not good kids. Sometimes it take hard knocks to straighten them out. I by no means am saying this kid is a saint as I have no clue. If he comes here I hope he has learned his lesson.

[Leroy Lizard]

It wasn't endangering society such as a DWI, Rape or Violent act.

Actually, the effect of thievery on society is even more serious than any of those. In fact, no crime more negatively impacts our society than stealing.


He faced the consequence of being booted off of UF and had to go play at a JC.

Like he had a choice.

And if he gets to start at OU, then not a whole lot happened to him, did it? Nice message: "I am Cam Newton. I stole other people's belongings, so I can't start for UF anymore. I start instead for OU."

Yeah, real tough break for him.

The police were in his dorm room questioning him. He had the opportunity at that point to fess up and return the laptop to its rightful owner. Instead, he threw it out the window (and probably destroyed it).

Did he ever buy the student another laptop?

And do we care about the student? Hell no! All we can care about is if Cam gets a second chance, because Cam is a *football star*.


Many super athletes are not good kids.

Then they can play for someone else.

[TXBOOMER]

Then they can play for someone else.

All teams have their turds. We have players that have been caught stealing and got a second chance without getting kicked off of the team (Granger & Broyles). I'm glad they got another chance. I hope they have turned it around, It certainly seems like they have. Again, this dude may have turned it around.

[Leroy Lizard]

All teams have their turds. We have players that have been caught stealing and got a second chance without getting kicked off of the team (Granger & Broyles).

Yeah, and what poster was in here stating in no ambiguous terms that he wanted Granger kicked off the team? Ask anyone in here. In fact, I became Public Enemy No. 1 in here because I was one of a small number that wanted Granger gone.

(I wasn't posting at the time of the Broyles incident.)

[Curly Bill]

I'll take all the turds we can get if they'll keep us from getting sand kicked in our faces come big games and bowl time.

[Leroy Lizard]

That assumes that no one else can sub for them. We are still allowed to have 11 players on the field.

[MeMyself&Me]

I don't mind giving our own a second chance when the situation calls for it such as Granger and Broyles, though I'll say even they got off pretty easy as far as I can tell. However, it's entirely different when bringing someone else in that has known criminal history. As such, I'd be happy if he went somewhere else. Even happier if it was someone that we didn't have on the schedule.

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't mind giving our own a second chance when the situation calls for it such as Granger and Broyles, though I'll say even they got off pretty easy as far as I can tell. However, it's entirely different when bringing someone else in that has known criminal history. As such, I'd be happy if he went somewhere else. Even happier if it was someone that we didn't have on the schedule.

You mean like Lynn McGruder?

[Leroy Lizard]

What about him?

Let me rephrase it: What's your point?

[sooner59]

Actually, the effect of thievery on society is even more serious than any of those. In fact, no crime more negatively impacts our society than stealing.

Stealing a computer is more serious than rape? If you believe that, then you are a f***ing idiot.

And the next sentence compared to murder solidifies my statement.

Your move.

[misplacedsooner]

i dont understand you leroy. kids are kids and a vast majority do stupid crap...most dont get caught...does that make it ok?

[Leroy Lizard]

Stealing a computer is more serious than rape? If you believe that, then you are a f***ing idiot.

Your attempt to put words in my mouth is intellectually dishonest. What did I actually say? Go back and read it again.


i dont understand you leroy. kids are kids and a vast majority do stupid crap...most dont get caught...does that make it ok?

Of course not. Where in the Hell did I even imply such a thing?

[misplacedsooner]

it just seems you are dead set against giving the kid a 2nd chance. is he a habitual thief or criminal or was it a one time thing that he has learned from? id lean towards it was a one time thing at this point. im not trying to rag on you but you make it hard not to by not being forgiving of an error he made.

[Leroy Lizard]

it just seems you are dead set against giving the kid a 2nd chance.

Think of it this way: I am in favor of letting some athlete who would normally not get a scholarship have their first chance.

The University of Florida gave this kid a chance that few are able to have. He blew it.

Now it is time for him to step aside and let someone more worthy of the chance have theirs.


is he a habitual thief or criminal or was it a one time thing that he has learned from?

Let some other university find out the hard way.

By the way, I take exception to the "habitual thief" comment. The problem here isn't how often he stole, but rather his character. He saw something he wanted, so he broke into a dorm room and took it. The grief and harm that his theft caused some other unfortunate soul did not bother him a bit. In fact, he was willing to destroy the other person's property to try and save his own skin.

THAT is the type of person we are talking about here.

And you want to give him a highly valued scholarship to attend an *institution of higher learning*? A scholarship that could go to someone who has kept his nose clean?

Sorry, but the University of Oklahoma is not a half-way house.


id lean towards it was a one time thing at this point. im not trying to rag on you but you make it hard not to by not being forgiving of an error he made.

Has he asked for forgiveness?

Seriously, has he?

Other than playing his favorite sport, what exactly has he done to amend for his misdeeds? (And I'm not talking about the actions that he was forced to perform, such as transferring.)

[Frozen Sooner]

What about him?

Let me rephrase it: What's your point?

I thought it was rather obvious.

Lynn McGruder is a kid we gave a second chance to who had a "known criminal history" at another university. He ended up keeping his nose clean at OU and even saved someone's life while here.

I'm not a huge fan of Cameron Newton's, but it's not as if kids have never turned themselves around once they got to OU.

[sooner59]

Your attempt to put words in my mouth is intellectually dishonest. What did I actually say? Go back and read it again.

Ok. You "actually" quoted this:

It wasn't endangering society such as a DWI, Rape or Violent act.

Then, you "actually" immediately responded with this:

Actually, the effect of thievery on society is even more serious than any of those. In fact, no crime more negatively impacts our society than stealing.

I didn't put words in your mouth. You did. This is EXACTLY what you said. So you can take your "intellectual dishonestly" and stick it up your ***. I quoted you directly. I didn't twist your words. If you want to re-state your words, feel free. I was going off what you said. And what you said was ridiculous. You can question my "intellectual" ability all you want but it doesn't help your case.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm still trying to fgure out how theft has a more negative impact on society as a whole than rape and murder. By Leroy's reasoning if he'd committed rape or murder he'd still not be welcome at OU by Leroy's standards, but he WOULD be more welcome.

Rape and murder are FAR worse than stealing some friggin' physical object IMO. Theft does not take away all the potential and societal benefit a murder victim may have offered humanity. Theft does NOT psychologically destroy a person forever, bring about the potential of an unwanted pregnancy, cause the spread of disease, or any of the other horrible consequences of rape.

The whole concept is ridiculous IMO.

[Leroy Lizard]

I thought it was rather obvious.

Lynn McGruder is a kid we gave a second chance to who had a "known criminal history" at another university. He ended up keeping his nose clean at OU and even saved someone's life while here.

Yes, and we gave a second to Charles Thompson and he ended up on the cover of SI (and not in a good way). So what's your point?

Your point is a fallacy. Sure, if we have an inkling that Cam may save someone's life if we bring him, that would be one thing. But what you are relying on is pure hindsight.

Besides, how would we ever know if the other athlete (the one that didn't get a scholarship because we gave one to Cam) wouldn't have saved someone's life?

I was totally against Lyn McGruder joining the Sooners. I stand by that decision today.


I'm not a huge fan of Cameron Newton's, but it's not as if kids have never turned themselves around once they got to OU.

Oh, sure it's possible. (I suppose he could win a Nobel Prize in physics for that matter.) But I'm not arguing that he WILL commit more crimes. I am talking about the crime he already committed.

But, now that you have raised the issue, bringing in players with dark pasts does tend to cause problems more often than usual.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Maybe someone should rape and murder him, but then the punishment would be far less than the crime!

[Leroy Lizard]

I'm still trying to fgure out how theft has a more negative impact on society as a whole than rape and murder. By Leroy's reasoning if he'd committed rape or murder he'd still not be welcome at OU by Leroy's standards, but he WOULD be more welcome.


Nope, I didn't say that.

The comment I responded to initially implied that theft was not a big deal. For evidence, the poster offered the comparison to rape and murder.

First of all, it's bad logic. Rape and murder being reprehensible doesn't make theft less so.

Second, I am right when I say that theft has a more deleterious effect than rape and murder ON SOCIETY. Sure, rape and murder are more severe to the victims and their friends/relatives (and therfore warrant the most severe punishments), but only theft has such huge repercussions to all societies.

Think about how the world would change if only people didn't steal.

[sooner59]

+1 ^^^^

Intended for Crux.

[sooner59]

Nope, I didn't say that.

The comment I responded to initially implied that theft was not a big deal. For evidence, the poster offered the comparison to rape and murder.

First of all, it's bad logic. Rape and murder being reprehensible doesn't make theft less so.

Second, I am right when I say that theft has a more deleterious effect than rape and murder ON SOCIETY. Sure, rape and murder are more severe to the victims and their friends/relatives (and therfore warrant the most severe punishments), but only theft has such huge repercussions to all societies.

Think about how the world would change if only people didn't steal.

Are you f***ing kidding me!!! Imagine what the world would be like if there were no rapes or murders! You have a warped view on "SOCIETY". Stealing is terrible, but its doesn't even enter the scope of the other two. If you have ANY ethical/moral values you would know that. Society as a whole would appreciate it if you just kept that s*** to yourself.

[Crucifax Autumn]

When someone in a small town or in a city neighborhood is raped or murdered it has a very profound effect of the psyche of every single resident, and one that is much more severe than if Bob's truck got stolen from the mall.

[Leroy Lizard]

Are you f***ing kidding me!!! Imagine what the world would be like if there were no rapes or murders! You have a warped view on "SOCIETY".

You can't even fathom how bad stealing affects us all. You haven't thought about it long enough.

Unfortunately, few have.

Those people who live in the city and go to sleep scared are worried about people breaking in at night. The criminals are not out to just kill people for the Hell of it. They break into homes to steal. And if you get in the way they might kill you to cover their tracks, but without the desire to steal they're not in the apartment in the first place.

Think about how many murders are perpetrated on account of theft. Carjackers don't kill people because they like doing so; they want someone else's stuff.

Solve the theft problem and a lot of the murder goes away.

You're paying for all those security guards you see in the parking lot at night. You are paying for the locks. You can't leave your house unlocked. I know a lot of people who are afraid to leave their homes because someone might break in.

Thievery is a crippling crime and it affects EVERYONE.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yes, and we gave a second to Charles Thompson and he ended up on the cover of SI (and not in a good way). So what's your point?

Your point is a fallacy. Sure, if we have an inkling that Cam may save someone's life if we bring him, that would be one thing. But what you are relying on is pure hindsight.

Besides, how would we ever know if the other athlete (the one that didn't get a scholarship because we gave one to Cam) wouldn't have saved someone's life?

I was totally against Lyn McGruder joining the Sooners. I stand by that decision today.



Oh, sure it's possible. (I suppose he could win a Nobel Prize in physics for that matter.) But I'm not arguing that he WILL commit more crimes. I am talking about the crime he already committed.

But, now that you have raised the issue, bringing in players with dark pasts does tend to cause problems more often than usual.

You don't even know where you're coming or going.

First, my only point was that blindly applying a rule that someone with a checkered past should never ever be given a chance here would have kept Lynn McGruder out of the University. Personally I think his actions since being given a second chance justify the chance he was given. Obviously you don't. Before you accuse me of putting words in your mouth: "I stand by that decision today."

Second, I wasn't aware that Charles Thompson transferred to OU after being accused or convicted of a crime elsewhere. I was pretty sure he was a freshman at OU. However, he did break the law while at OU, was dismissed from the team, and served jail time. Then some other university decided to give him a second chance (Central State of Ohio) and he's kept his nose clean ever since. Your "point is a fallacy," since the example of Charles Thompson shows that someone CAN turn their life around.

Third, your comment about someone else possibly saving someone's life is ludicrous. Someone else didn't. McGruder did. If what I'm using is hindsight, what you're using is speculation and cobwebs. Frankly, I'd rather use hindsight and say "Man, that's a kid who got his crap together" rather than be a person who says "He shouldn't have been given another chance, someone else might have saved those people."

My comment was directed at a poster who said that a player should only be given a second chance if they are already at OU, not if they were dismissed from another team. This OU staff has done so before and it's worked out well. I get it that you don't like it when kids break the law and get to still play football. It bothers me some as well, and like I said I'm not a big Cameron Newton fan. His actions were reprehensible, and I'm not arguing that he should be given a scholarship. Then again, I don't know the kid, I don't know what conversations he's had with the coaching staff, and I don't know what he's done to make up for his past. Bob's shown great judgment in these types of situations in the past, and until one blows up in his face I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Crucifax Autumn]

He shoulda just raped the laptop.

[Leroy Lizard]

First, my only point was that blindly applying a rule that someone with a checkered past should never ever be given a chance here would have kept Lynn McGruder out of the University. Personally I think his actions since being given a second chance justify the chance he was given. Obviously you don't. Before you accuse me of putting words in your mouth: "I stand by that decision today."

I don't. I don't use hindsight to justify my reasoning, especially hindsight based on selectivity. (After all, you didn't mention anything about Charles Thompson, because his episode didn't support your argument.)

You just can't use hindsight. If you release Charles Manson and he saves someone's life, that doesn't justify the choice in releasing him.


Second, I wasn't aware that Charles Thompson transferred to OU after being accused or convicted of a crime elsewhere. I was pretty sure he was a freshman at OU.

He was nailed for shoplifting and assault/battery prior to his recruitment. (I can't imagine how small the victim must have been for CT to assault him/her.)


However, he did break the law while at OU, was dismissed from the team, and served jail time. Then some other university decided to give him a second chance (Central State of Ohio) and he's kept his nose clean ever since.

Technically, he was on third chance.


Your "point is a fallacy," since the example of Charles Thompson shows that someone CAN turn their life around.

Sure, after damaging the reputation of the university on an unseen-before level. (Don't forget the hit piece he wrote about the university while in jail. He is no friend of OU.)

Seriously, has any athlete tarnished the image of his university more than Charles Thompson? Other than maybe OJ (and I'm not even sure about that).

And who pays for CT's transgressions? We all do.


Third, your comment about someone else possibly saving someone's life is ludicrous. Someone else didn't. McGruder did. If what I'm using is hindsight, what you're using is speculation and cobwebs.

I'm not speculating at all. I have no way of knowing what Cam is going to do when and if he gets here, and I don't care.


Bob's shown great judgment in these types of situations in the past, and until one blows up in his face I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

I don't care about Bob's judgment because we are looking at two different things. Bob is weighing Cam's abilities versus the liklihood of him getting in trouble again. To me, none of that matters.

[sooner59]

I rest my point. I am angry, but that will not change how anyone feels about anything, nor will whatever **** Leroy says affect me. I pity people like that. If you are offended, I don't care. You offended me so whatever. I feel that most feel like I do. At least I hope they do. Not everyone that steals commits murder, so its not a perfect analogy. Some people would steal, but realize their mistake and turn their life around. And some people steal and don't give a **** and kill people.....and those people are wasting space. I stole a candy bar when I was 12, but I never raped or killed somebody. And I feel like I am a decent member of society today. Say what you will. I am done.

[Frozen Sooner]

I didn't mention Charles Thompson because it's a distinguishable situation. I was specifically addressing the situation of an athlete screwing up at another university and being given a second chance at OU. Further, as much as most of us love Barry, Bob's judgment in these matters has shown to be much better than Barry's-at least so far.

Look, I know you want to argue this point all night instead of grading papers or whatever. I'm not even substantively disagreeing with you: if I were the one making the decision given the information I have currently available, I wouldn't offer Cameron Newton a scholarship. Fundamentally, though, you and I disagree on a premise, so there's not a single logical argument either of us can make to persuade the other. Your premise is that playing college football is a privilege that is forfeited by the commission of a crime. My premise is that playing college football is a privilege that is forfeited by the commission of a crime but can be re-earned (is that even a word?) Not a huge deal.

[Leroy Lizard]

Not everyone that steals commits murder, so its not a perfect analogy. Some people would steal, but realize their mistake and turn their life around. And some people steal and don't give a **** and kill people.....and those people are wasting space. I stole a candy bar when I was 12, but I never raped or killed somebody. And I feel like I am a decent member of society today. Say what you will. I am done.

The problem with you sooner59 is that you are trying to cast everything I say into some misguided notion that I think rape and murder is okay. Instead of trying to pick holes in my argument, why not try to understand my stance on this issue?

One of the biggest problems that we have in society is our inability to understand the effects of theft on our well being.

Have you ever walked in a bad part of town and felt threatened? Why? It isn't because the people around you are out to kill you for no reason. Your fear, whether you realize it or not, is based on whether people around you want to steal from you. And to do it, they may cut your throat. But no matter, their desire to take from you whatever they want is the real problem.

And why do people act out their desires to steal? Because we tell them that stealing is no big deal.

So, by cutting people slack for stealing, we turn theft into a calculated risk, and not the abhorrent act that it rightfully deserves.

Remember the show Married with Children? The kids were told by their parents to steal gas from their neighbors, and it generated a lot of laughs. In fact, stealing was a common fun activity. What's the message? (For the record, I think Married with Children is a funny show, but I winced at some of the dialogue.)

It's not the act, but the mindset. "This person has what I want. I am going to take it, and I don't care what problems that causes for this person." That is a real sick mentality for someone to have, but as is often the case there are few repercussions for acting it out.

So, Cam can just go elsewhere as far I'm concerned. I can overlook a few things, but not thievery.

[Leroy Lizard]

I didn't mention Charles Thompson because it's a distinguishable situation. I was specifically addressing the situation of an athlete screwing up at another university and being given a second chance at OU.

Theft is illegal in Florida just as much as it is in Oklahoma. I don't see why it matters where he first screwed up. Maybe I'm missing something.


Your premise is that playing college football is a privilege that is forfeited by the commission of a crime.

Yeah, that's a pretty good assessment of my argument (although it goes a little deeper than that, since I don't think all crimes should necessarily forfeit a scholarship).

For example, rape and murder could be... just kidding.

[Leroy Lizard]

MODS. After thinking it over, you may want to delete some of the posts in here, especially mine. Cam is not a high school recruit, but a recruit nonetheless. If Bob wants him on the team, then I don't think we should do anything to hurt his chances.

Or am I overreacting?

[soonerhubs]

One way to keep theft down is to raise the opportunity costs of these acts by educating folks. This gives them more options that are legal, safe, and more profitable. In other words, once a person has greater income opporunity, he/she is less likely to steal because the comparison level of alternatives comes into play. Thus educating Newton may just solve part of that societal theft problem.

[Leroy Lizard]

While I appreciate the sentiment, we must always remember that OU is a university. It wasn't designed to educate kids to simply keep them of the street. I think such an academic mission is below that of even a junior college.

To me, your argument sounds like a contrived rationalization for recruiting him. Bring him in so that we can educate him so that he won't steal? Is that what an athletic scholarship is all about?

[Widescreen]

LL, why are you so against Newton? I'm as big of a law and order person as you'll find. But don't you think the coaches have vetted him pretty thoroughly and have decided he's worth the scholarship offer? I don't think Stoops would bring somebody in to bust up the team with controversy and thuggery. I guess you do???

[Sooner-N-KS]

You don't build yourself up as a person by stealing other people's belongs.

It's not a mere mistake to steal laptops. He knew it was illegal when he did it. He didn't care.

Now, if he had stolen the laptops, thought about it, then returned the laptops and accepted the consequences... that would be different.

Let's recruit good kids. We don't need thieves on our team, especially given the problems we have had in the past.

I guess we need to get rid of Broyles then.

[olevetonahill]

Good kids don't steal other people's belongings.

They just don't.


Bet you got the **** beat out of yerself and yer Lunch money stolen a lot huh ?:rolleyes:

[bringit]

^^^^heh

[Curly Bill]

Bet you got the **** beat out of yerself and yer Lunch money stolen a lot huh ?:rolleyes:

I'm guessing this is pretty close to the truth.

[Leroy Lizard]

Bet you got the **** beat out of yerself and yer Lunch money stolen a lot huh ?

Lame.

[TXBOOMER]

I'm guessing this is pretty close to the truth.


Prolly. Seems like a pretty cool dude though. Just hasn't figured out life is a focking yet.

[Leroy Lizard]

Okay, those who disagree with me must like to steal.

That's what this thread has just degenerated into. Since we have now made the argument personal, can we shut the thread down?

[olevetonahill]

Okay, those who disagree with me must like to steal.

That's what this thread has just degenerated into. Since we have now made the argument personal, can we shut the thread down?

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :rolleyes:

[TXBOOMER]

This came out three hours ago. I guess they mean this coming Thursday he will announce.

Newton to pick
Junior college quarterback Cameron Newton will announce his college choice on Thursday, his father told Scout.com last week.

The 6-foot-6, 240-pound Florida transfer appears to be choosing between Mississippi State, Oklahoma and Auburn. He has visited all three schools within the last month.

[misplacedsooner]

we are waiting for you cam. this is the place to be, you would look great in crimson and cream.

[olevetonahill]

Okay, those who disagree with me must like to steal.

That's what this thread has just degenerated into. Since we have now made the argument personal, can we shut the thread down?

Hey Leroy Remember this ?????:P :D

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2605976&postcount=30

[Leroy Lizard]

It sounds like my posting in here really bothers people. I don't want to bother anyone worth a ****, so I will bow out.

Fixed.

[Collier11]

Okay, those who disagree with me must like to steal.

That's what this thread has just degenerated into. Since we have now made the argument personal, can we shut the thread down?

First of all, do your research. You have proven on more than one occasion that you enjoy stirring sh*t around here but as an educator it would be nice if you even looked into your stupid claims before you tried bad mouthing the kid.

Newton was accused of stealing a laptop, it was later found that the laptop in question was a laptop that was stolen by someone else and Newton purchased it, not knowing that it was stolen. He has since been cleared of the charges. You are dense, as usual...the only punishment Newton received was for lying to the police initially

[olevetonahill]

Fixed.

Fixin yer own Posts . what a doosh thing to do :rolleyes:

[Collier11]

Actually, the effect of thievery on society is even more serious than any of those. In fact, no crime more negatively impacts our society than stealing.

DUMB

Like he had a choice.

And if he gets to start at OU, then not a whole lot happened to him, did it? Nice message: "I am Cam Newton. I stole other people's belongings, so I can't start for UF anymore. I start instead for OU."

Yeah, real tough break for him.

The police were in his dorm room questioning him. He had the opportunity at that point to fess up and return the laptop to its rightful owner. Instead, he threw it out the window (and probably destroyed it).

Did he ever buy the student another laptop?

And do we care about the student? Hell no! All we can care about is if Cam gets a second chance, because Cam is a *football star*.



Then they can play for someone else.

DUMB DUMB DUMB

[CrimsonJim]

Does this mean he is bowing out...again?















Oh please, please, please, please!!!

[Leroy Lizard]

Newton was accused of stealing a laptop, it was later found that the laptop in question was a laptop that was stolen by someone else and Newton purchased it, not knowing that it was stolen.

Uh-huh.


When campus police returned to Newton’s room a second time, the laptop was missing. Cameron Newton had tossed it out his bedroom window.

Yeah, I always throw merchandise I have purchased out the window (which is obstruction of justice). After all, it's only a laptop computer. I always throw my laptop computer out my window.


The State Attorney's Office dropped grand theft and tampering charges against Newton late last week after he completed a pretrial intervention program for first-time offenders that typically includes probation. Newton stayed out of trouble during his probation and appears to be on track to turning things around.

Why would there be a need to "intervene" when someone is innocent?

Face it: He stole the laptop and because it was his first offense, he cut a deal to undergo a treatment program in exchange for having the charges dropped.out of

[Collier11]

Actually you are dead wrong, as usual. First of all I could care less if he is innocent or not, I really dont want him at OU anyway, the guy sounds about as smart as Vince Young in interviews and I cant imagine he is any smarter than he sounds.

Second, he bought the laptop off of a guy, once he found out it was stolen he freaked out and tried to get rid of the evidence, this happens all the time. People freak out and implicate themselves all the time when they arent even the ones who committed the crime

[olevetonahill]

This should say "WE"

http://poietes.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/talking-to-a-brick-wall.jpg

[Leroy Lizard]

Second, he bought the laptop off of a guy, once he found out it was stolen he freaked out and tried to get rid of the evidence, this happens all the time. People freak out and implicate themselves all the time when they arent even the ones who committed the crime

Actually, he committed a crime by trying to destroy evidence.

This sounds like a story he simply concocted long after the fact to cover his tracks. Isn't that what every burglar says when they get caught with the goods? "But I didn't steal it... I bought it off someone else."

Obviously, the police must have nabbed the person who sold Cam the laptop, right? Unfortunately, I cannot find any indication that Cam ever fingered anyone else for the crime, or that anyone else was ever arrested.

If he truly didn't steal the laptop, then obviously that changes things. But I don't buy his story one lick and I think you are incredibly gullible for believing it. Throwing the evidence out the window is not the behavior of a person who did no wrong.

[CrimsonJim]

Why would there be a need to "intervene" when someone is innocent?

Face it: He stole the laptop and because it was his first offense, he cut a deal to undergo a treatment program in exchange for having the charges dropped.out of

Sounds eerily like Lid, back when he was prosecuting Justin Chaisson without any of the facts, only to turn around a short time later and blindly defend Sergio Kindle. :rolleyes:

[Collier11]

Actually, he committed a crime by trying to destroy evidence.


No Sh*T!

[misplacedsooner]

guys...i have a feeling we arent gonna change his mind. i generally think of educators as fairly smart people who think things through before they speak, leroy, im wondering if i was wrong. if you really think about this stuff you have said you will see you are wrong in all of what you say and what you are being told by us is the gospel.

[Collier11]

Just being an educator does not make you smart, on top of that I havent heard much from Leroy in the past cpl of years that makes me think he is all that smart either...pompous yes

[olevetonahill]

guys...i have a feeling we arent gonna change his mind. i generally think of educators as fairly smart people who think things through before they speak, leroy, im wondering if i was wrong. if you really think about this stuff you have said you will see you are wrong in all of what you say and what you are being told by us is the gospel.

Leroy obviously has a short in his thinking
Remember he said Stealing was worse on Society than Rape and /Or Murder :rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

Just being an educator does not make you smart, on top of that I havent heard much from Leroy in the past cpl of years that makes me think he is all that smart either...pompous yes

Leroy is an educator ? Maybe thats why he hates a thief.
The 3rd Grade Bully is still kickin his *** and taking his lunch money . :D

[misplacedsooner]

hmmm, lets see....would i rather have someone steal my lawn mower or kill me? something thats stolen is a material thing leroy, they can be replaced.

[Collier11]

Im fairly certain that if ya stole Vets laptop he would kick yer ***, if ya tried to rape him youd likely get castrated

[olevetonahill]

hmmm, lets see....would i rather have someone steal my lawn mower or kill me? something thats stolen is a material thing leroy, they can be replaced.


Im fairly certain that if ya stole Vets laptop he would kick yer ***, if ya tried to rape him youd likely get castrated

Heh
Bet I can flip him and dick him , before he can throw me and blow me :D

[Curly Bill]

Heh
Bet I can flip him and dick him , before he can throw me and blow me :D

Sounds like a PPV event if ya ask me. :D

[Collier11]

Heh
Bet I can flip him and dick him , before he can throw me and blow me :D

sounds like you got experience :eek:

[olevetonahill]

Sounds like a PPV event if ya ask me. :D


sounds like you got experience :eek:

Wonder could we get Him and jaun to come to the next Ho Down :D :pop:

[Collier11]

I think juan would come, you might have to give him some work though. :D

Leroy would never show face, he is too big of a baby

[Collier11]

Lame.

It is lame, you should really stick up for yourself

[Curly Bill]

Wonder if juan knows anything about growing upside down mators? :D

[Collier11]

He is pretty diligent, im sure he could figure it out...Juan, where you at?

[Curly Bill]

He is pretty diligent, im sure he could figure it out...Juan, where you at?

Juan's prolly somewhere sharing a beer with jlew.

[Collier11]

I think Juan is actually Vets youngest son and they are just f*cking with us

[olevetonahill]

Juan's prolly somewhere sharing a beer with jlew.

Heard they had become BFFs :D

[olevetonahill]

I think Juan is actually Vets youngest son and they are just f*cking with us

Since he apologized , Ive pretty much left him alone . until he ****s with me :cool:

[Curly Bill]

I haven't picked on ol' juan lately either.

I'm losing my touch. :(

[Collier11]

Since he apologized , Ive pretty much left him alone . until he ****s with me :cool:

life is too short to not forgive family Vet, go give your son a hug

[Curly Bill]

Heard they had become BFFs :D

I know jlew's been looking for that ever since CK flew the coop. :D

[Curly Bill]

life is too short to not forgive family Vet, go give your son a hug

Makes me tear up a little.

[Collier11]

Makes me tear up a little.


http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/sb10065926a-001.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=318D644E4D78617AC2DE808C70359BB70965C8C0827CC120 E30A760B0D811297

[Leroy Lizard]

hmmm, lets see....would i rather have someone steal my lawn mower or kill me? something thats stolen is a material thing leroy, they can be replaced.

Yes, I know.

Is that all you wanted to say?

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'd rather they kill me with my lawnmower.

[Leroy Lizard]

Well, everyone has their own favored means of dying. Death by lawnmower is a unique one.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

M Night Shyamalan is that you?

[soonerborn30]

The problem with you sooner59 is that you are trying to cast everything I say into some misguided notion that I think rape and murder is okay. Instead of trying to pick holes in my argument, why not try to understand my stance on this issue?

One of the biggest problems that we have in society is our inability to understand the effects of theft on our well being.

Have you ever walked in a bad part of town and felt threatened? Why? It isn't because the people around you are out to kill you for no reason. Your fear, whether you realize it or not, is based on whether people around you want to steal from you. And to do it, they may cut your throat. But no matter, their desire to take from you whatever they want is the real problem.

And why do people act out their desires to steal? Because we tell them that stealing is no big deal.

So, by cutting people slack for stealing, we turn theft into a calculated risk, and not the abhorrent act that it rightfully deserves.

Remember the show Married with Children? The kids were told by their parents to steal gas from their neighbors, and it generated a lot of laughs. In fact, stealing was a common fun activity. What's the message? (For the record, I think Married with Children is a funny show, but I winced at some of the dialogue.)

It's not the act, but the mindset. "This person has what I want. I am going to take it, and I don't care what problems that causes for this person." That is a real sick mentality for someone to have, but as is often the case there are few repercussions for acting it out.

So, Cam can just go elsewhere as far I'm concerned. I can overlook a few things, but not thievery.


I'll take "People that have been stolen from and are now irreversibly bitter" for $1000, Alex.

The world is not as black and white as you'd like to make it out to be. You have NO idea how this kid feels about what he did. You have absolutely NO concrete information about this person's inner thoughts, yet you pretend to. Get off your effing high horse, dude. The kid messed up. Maybe you could lead him by example since you've obviously led a life compeltely beyond reproach.

[Leroy Lizard]

The world is not as black and white as you'd like to make it out to be. You have NO idea how this kid feels about what he did. You have absolutely NO concrete information about this person's inner thoughts, yet you pretend to.

Gee, this coming from the same person that wrote:


I'll take "People that have been stolen from and are now irreversibly bitter" for $1000, Alex.

A person has to go out of his way to be so wonderfully inconsistent.

[Leroy Lizard]

BTW, if a person has a loved killed by a drunk driver, does that not constitute a good reason for that person being particularly hateful of drunk drivers?

Suppose I had something valuable stolen from me. That sounds like a good reason as any to despise thieves.

[misplacedsooner]

again, material things...they can be replaced. its not the same. now if you had your virginity stolen............ nah, they would return that... or maybe throw it out the window into the dumpster.

[Leroy Lizard]

Wow, real words of wisdom there. :D

[AlbqSooner]

A person has to go out of his way to be so wonderfully inconsistent.

While you on the other hand find it so natural. I thought you were leaving months ago.

[Leroy Lizard]

While you on the other hand find it so natural. I thought you were leaving months ago.

You bore me.

So does this thread.

[BOOMERBRADLEY]

So....

How about that Cam Newton!

[olevetonahill]

BTW, if a person has a loved killed by a drunk driver, does that not constitute a good reason for that person being particularly hateful of drunk drivers?

Suppose I had something valuable stolen from me. That sounds like a good reason as any to despise thieves.

Told Yall it were his Lunch Money . Like I said the 3rd grade bully is prolly STILL kickin his arse and taking his lunch mone3y .:rolleyes:

[Jello Biafra]

You bore me.

So does this thread.

so go the fugg away like so many have beeged you to do....just sayin/

[Collier11]

Yep Vet, exactly what it is...I had my truck broken into twice in a 6 month stretch about 4 years ago, they stole 2 diff CD players, I had to replace my window twice, and my window tint.

Do I hate thieves, hell yes. Do I go around despising people who steal all hours of the day, honestly I really dont think about it.

Now, for anyone who has been raped or had someone in their family murdered, im pretty sure they think about that every single second of their lives

[delhalew]

You bore me.

So does this thread.

Sure, nevermind that you stuck a grenade in the @ss of this thread. Now you are bored with it. Good. This stupid conversation can be over.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I prefer my things be stolen to vandalized. Something just really pizzes me off about having my vehicle ****ed with by some arsehole with nothing to gain from it. Seems like a sick kinda person that destroys something he coulda just stole.

[goingoneight]

So, um... about this Cam Newton guy... where's he going since he isn't on the 2010 verbal commitments list,

[Collier11]

Its between us, miss st, and aub and he is supposed to decide in the next week or so

[adoniijahsooner]

So, um... about this Cam Newton guy... where's he going since he isn't on the 2010 verbal commitments list,

He'll be making his decision on Thursday I understand. Scout says it between Auburn and MSU, and that we havent even offered him a scholly; But Rivals says its between us, Auburn, and MSU with a scholly offered.:confused:

[adoniijahsooner]

I heard some guy speculate that maybe he wants to see how Landry performs before announcing, but I dont think that is the case.

[StoopTroup]

Who is this guy again?

[StoopTroup]

I heard some guy speculate that maybe he wants to see how Landry performs before announcing, but I dont think that is the case.

If he's worried about Landry then he must not think he's all that. Sounds like a kid with a level head to me.

[Dan Thompson]

He will go to a team that plays FU so he can try and get some payback against a team that would not play him.

[Collier11]

According to an OUinsider msg board post he has eliminated OU, not sure how reliable that is though

[misplacedsooner]

you know, its not that fla. wouldnt play him. you also know if he would of never been in trouble he would of unseated t-bone, t-bone would of transfered here, been turned into a fullback and played o-line this year and cried when the other o-linemen missed their blocks. hahahahaha!!!

[misplacedsooner]

and just think...if t-bone would of come here leroy would be on hard 24/7

[soonerborn30]

Gee, this coming from the same person that wrote:



A person has to go out of his way to be so wonderfully inconsistent.

I'm not the only one that can see you're bitter about theives. It's not really me pretending to have insight as much as it is you being completely transparent.

Don't you have a lesson plan to make or something? Papers to grade? Traffic to play in?

[OK2U]

Long rambling thread...
Is there actually any new news to report?

[soonerhubs]

Long rambling thread...
Is there actually any new news to report?

Yes. It's generating the most pertinent question of the century:

Will Urban Meyer have a stroke if Cameron Newton goes pro, mentions OU instead of Florida, but then changes his mind mid sentence after remembering his degree wasn't approved by FmrEmpOUathdept and that his recruitment was revoked by some guy named Leroy that has a knack for pissing off the entire world in a matter of 2-3 posts?

It's all in the forum, you just gotta glean man. GLEAN!

:D

[TXBOOMER]

He'll be making his decision on Thursday I understand. Scout says it between Auburn and MSU, and that we havent even offered him a scholly; But Rivals says its between us, Auburn, and MSU with a scholly offered.:confused:

We offered the kid a skolly when he came out of high school in 2007. Stoops wouldn't be hard core recruiting him now without a skolly offer. My guess is he is going to MSU because of his ties to Dan Mullen, but you never know. If Stoops gets him I will be nearly as shocked as I was when he got AD.

I got this off of a google search.

Newton to pick

Junior college quarterback Cameron Newton will announce his college choice on Thursday, his father told Scout.com last week.

The 6-foot-6, 240-pound Florida transfer appears to be choosing between Mississippi State, Oklahoma and Auburn. He has visited all three schools within the last month.

[Collier11]

Long rambling thread...
Is there actually any new news to report?


We offered the kid a skolly when he came out of high school in 2007. Stoops wouldn't be hard core recruiting him now without a skolly offer. My guess is he is going to MSU because of his ties to Dan Mullen, but you never know. If Stoops gets him I will be nearly as shocked as I was when he got AD.

I got this off of a google search.

Newton to pick

Junior college quarterback Cameron Newton will announce his college choice on Thursday, his father told Scout.com last week.

The 6-foot-6, 240-pound Florida transfer appears to be choosing between Mississippi State, Oklahoma and Auburn. He has visited all three schools within the last month.


According to an OUinsider msg board post he has eliminated OU, not sure how reliable that is though

This

[CrimsonJim]

I know jlew's been looking for that ever since CK flew the coop. :D

Rumor has it CK hasn't flew the coop, he just logs in as KHS Sooner and peems his old idols. :D

[MALE918]

Nope, I didn't say that.

The comment I responded to initially implied that theft was not a big deal. For evidence, the poster offered the comparison to rape and murder.

First of all, it's bad logic. Rape and murder being reprehensible doesn't make theft less so.

Second, I am right when I say that theft has a more deleterious effect than rape and murder ON SOCIETY. Sure, rape and murder are more severe to the victims and their friends/relatives (and therfore warrant the most severe punishments), but only theft has such huge repercussions to all societies.

Think about how the world would change if only people didn't steal.

Only if you put the value of yourself in your things. Personally my things don't define me; if it was stolen it doesn't destroy me. This is pure stupidity. Every kid makes some extremely dumb mistake at some point, I personally feel better knowing their parents don't just throw them on the street as a lost cause and just get pregnant to have another kid put in his place.

[Leroy Lizard]

Only if you put the value of yourself in your things. Personally my things don't define me; if it was stolen it doesn't destroy me. This is pure stupidity. Every kid makes some extremely dumb mistake at some point, I personally feel better knowing their parents don't just throw them on the street as a lost cause and just get pregnant to have another kid put in his place.

My argument went right over your head.

[yermom]

Only if you put the value of yourself in your things. Personally my things don't define me; if it was stolen it doesn't destroy me. This is pure stupidity. Every kid makes some extremely dumb mistake at some point, I personally feel better knowing their parents don't just throw them on the street as a lost cause and just get pregnant to have another kid put in his place.

that's not his argument. his argument is that people that steal often don't care how they steal. if they have to injure or kill you in the process that's fine.

when you walk down the street in a bad part of town, you are afraid of getting attacked because you might have something of value(to them), it's not that someone might just want to attack you for no reason, for the most part anyway

[Collier11]

My argument went right over your head.

Im pretty sure that your argument went right over your head as no one with any sense would argue some of the things you argue, including this

[Leroy Lizard]

that's not his argument. his argument is that people that steal often don't care how they steal. if they have to injure or kill you in the process that's fine.

when you walk down the street in a bad part of town, you are afraid of getting attacked because you might have something of value(to them), it's not that someone might just want to attack you for no reason, for the most part anyway

That is part of my argument, and I am glad someone took the time to actually read and understand my point.

Along with the violence that accompanies theft, there is also the enormous financial drain on economies to fight theft that far outweighs that of fighting violent crime unrelated to theft. How much do we spend to keep people from getting murdered? Relatively little. How much do we spend to prevent theft? It is astronomical.

So if I had a magic wand and the opportunity to remove a bad human characteristic, it would be the desire to steal. If it doesn't belong to you, keep your #&^$&# hands off of it.

[Leroy Lizard]

Im pretty sure that your argument went right over your head as no one with any sense would argue some of the things you argue, including this

Someday maybe you will understand. You will need to get a little smarter somehow.

[Collier11]

I love your self infatuation, its ok though, it doesnt bother me. In fact its kind of cute, after all, someone has to love you

[Leroy Lizard]

I love your self infatuation, its ok though, it doesnt bother me.

Oh, I can breathe easier now.

[Collier11]

If it makes you feel better you remind me alot of a less political LAS but with the same degree of self infatuation and overall ignorance

[85sooners]

:pop:

[Leroy Lizard]

If it makes you feel better you remind me alot of a less political LAS but with the same degree of self infatuation and overall ignorance

Are not! Are not!

[Collier11]

Perfect

[yankee]

great pissing contest guys, just great.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yep. This one's outlived its usefulness.