PDA

View Full Version : Why aren't people talking more about this?



lexsooner
12/12/2009, 07:32 PM
The story of the decade: how the financial institutions almost destroyed the U.S. and world's economies through their bad business decisions, corruption, greed, and how the politicians from both parties helped them. These folks have done much more damage to this country and our standing in the world than Islamic terrorists could ever dream, and it seems we don't talk about it much. If there is anger to be unleashed, the bankers and their cronies should be the top of the list, IMHO. But I see more threads about global warming than this subject. So what gives?

GottaHavePride
12/12/2009, 07:40 PM
Most people don't understand finance.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/12/2009, 07:51 PM
Forced bad mortgage loans by Congress started the crisis. The banks passed on those bad loans. recession ensued, then we elected marxists to run the country. They are running it, alright. Rotsa Ruck, 'merica!!!

JohnnyMack
12/12/2009, 07:53 PM
You're such a tool sometimes.

SicEmBaylor
12/12/2009, 08:01 PM
Most people don't understand finance.

Do they understand global warming any better?

King Crimson
12/12/2009, 08:12 PM
Do they understand global warming any better?

apparently there are a lot of experts on it that post on this here board.

Frozen Sooner
12/12/2009, 08:35 PM
The story of the decade: how the financial institutions almost destroyed the U.S. and world's economies through their bad business decisions, corruption, greed, and how the politicians from both parties helped them. These folks have done much more damage to this country and our standing in the world than Islamic terrorists could ever dream, and it seems we don't talk about it much. If there is anger to be unleashed, the bankers and their cronies should be the top of the list, IMHO. But I see more threads about global warming than this subject. So what gives?

YEAH!! GET THOSE ****ERS!!!

lexsooner
12/13/2009, 10:32 AM
Forced bad mortgage loans by Congress started the crisis. The banks passed on those bad loans. recession ensued, then we elected marxists to run the country. They are running it, alright. Rotsa Ruck, 'merica!!!

If you think this is a partisan issue, think again. Both parties are in bed with the banks and corporate American, and have been for the longest time.

Breadburner
12/13/2009, 10:36 AM
Not the first time its happened.....Little ole bank in Okc almost did the same thing....

StoopTroup
12/13/2009, 11:21 AM
Forced bad mortgage loans by Congress started the crisis. The banks passed on those bad loans. recession ensued, then we elected marxists to run the country. They are running it, alright. Rotsa Ruck, 'merica!!!

Yep...

Couldn't have been the Lobbyists that the Financial Institutions sent to sway the Congress.

Stupid Congress! Bad Congress! You guys should really quit listening to people you think know anything. Just go with your gut.

LMAO!

Frozen Sooner
12/13/2009, 11:52 AM
Not the first time its happened.....Little ole bank in Okc almost did the same thing....

The Penn Square Bank failure is a really interesting case study on regulatory failure.

OUHOMER
12/13/2009, 01:00 PM
I dont think congress has learned a damn thing. Look at some of the bull **** in the new 1.1 trillion spending bill.

People need to wake up in a hurry.....

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/13/2009, 01:12 PM
If you think this is a partisan issue, think again. Both parties are in bed with the banks and corporate American, and have been for the longest time.If you think the republicans were responsible for forcing those bad mortgage loans, think again, haha. The argument that the 2 parties are equally corrupt is way beyond laughable. There are some bad apples in the repubs, but the dems actually stand for authoritarian tyranny. It's what they want, and it's what they do. We got 'em now, big boy. en-effing-joy!!!

bluedogok
12/13/2009, 01:17 PM
Not the first time its happened.....Little ole bank in Okc almost did the same thing....
Yes, but you didn't have as many "too big to fail" financial (and other) institutions back then. The mega banks and trading of securities known to carry sever risks outside the regulatory structure created much of the problem. Also, the integration of different aspects of businesses contributed to it, how many think it is a good idea that the mega-home builders had their own finance companies to sell overpriced houses that were over-appraised by their own appraisers, to people who couldn't afford them and then knowing bundle bad loans together to sell as securities so they could make their money before they faced the risk of carrying bad mortgages. It's not just business, another big point of fault, the people who bought more than they could afford. The entire focus of the financial world on short term results over long term health is another big contributing factor...again, that goes back to greed and not owning what you are loaning.


The Penn Square Bank failure is a really interesting case study on regulatory failure.
Yep, "regulation" is only as good as the people doing the regulating and for the most part are still subject to the frailties and weaknesses that human beings have. Namely greed and corruption.

GottaHavePride
12/13/2009, 02:52 PM
The argument that the 2 parties are equally corrupt is way beyond laughable.

The laughable part is that you can't see it. Republicans = Democrats. It's like arguing about (insert any two NFL teams here) - they're all playing the same damn game.

Chuck Bao
12/13/2009, 03:19 PM
You can bet your sweet patooties that some of us are still watching the fallout of this financial/economic crisis.

I owe major props to Froze for countering me when I was saying last March to avoid all banking stocks. If you had bought banking shares back then you would have made out like a bandit.

But going more up to date, the confidence in the global financial system has been restored to some degree. But, it takes something like Dubai's state enterprise default to get people all worried again. The extent of the US mortgage market melt down is pretty well...yeah...pretty horrible and it will take many years to recover. The commercial market maybe isn't reflected yet and the Christmas retail sales in the US this year is pretty much make or break for the whole world.

The derivative products deal is a lesson and one that has not yet bet fully learned in my opinion. Some of the US banks are betting on commodities and that will produce a few more shocks ala Dubai and that just highlights the fact that the big banks' balance sheets are not so easy to understand or in other words, the banks are a reflection of the overall market and that shouldn't inspire confidence in anyone given the herd mentality and short-term performance time frame.

Although some banks are saying that they will return TARP funds, they are not out of the woods. Nobody is out of the woods, so to speak.

Frozen Sooner
12/13/2009, 03:25 PM
I owe major props to Froze for countering me when I was saying last March to avoid all banking stocks. If you had bought banking shares back then you would have made out like a bandit.


Aw, shucks, it weren't nothing but realizing that some of the major banks were realizing some paper losses for reserves while their income streams were still good.

Chuck Bao
12/13/2009, 03:45 PM
Aw, shucks, it weren't nothing but realizing that some of the major banks were realizing some paper losses for reserves while their income streams were still good.

Okay, we can go back to disagreeing again. I really think that the recovery since March was more about "too big to fail", confidence being restored from guarantees at taxpayers' expense and Americans' reluctance to see its major banks nationalized.

I was a banking analyst once and I learned that it isn't so much about income streams, but asset quality. Basically, you should value banks on price/book value after adjusting for non-performing loans and provisions for loan loss.

Right now it is pretty hard to figure out how it will turn out, but in my opinion the commercial property market may get some life from surprisingly buoyant retail Christmas sales, but we could very well see another financial crisis develop in 3 months time as retailers can't make rental payments after Christmas sales end. In other words, I really think there is the possibility of a double-dip recession and another wave of financial problems.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
12/13/2009, 04:13 PM
The laughable part is that you can't see it. Republicans = Democrats. It's like arguing about (insert any two NFL teams here) - they're all playing the same damn game.What's even more laughable is you apparently think everyone is corrupt or evil in govt.(or, more likely, you know the little tricks that help get democrats elected, hehe)

StoopTroup
12/13/2009, 04:56 PM
but we could very well see another financial crisis develop in 3 months time as retailers can't make rental payments after Christmas sales end. In other words, I really think there is the possibility of a double-dip recession and another wave of financial problems.

Thanks...that got me all Warm and fuzzy....lol

Chuck Bao
12/13/2009, 05:17 PM
Thanks...that got me all Warm and fuzzy....lol


Well, seriously is that not a no-brainer? Retailers have to stay in business for Christmas sales and then figure out if it is worth staying in business after that. I have all sorts of warm and fuzziness for you, ST, if you are really into it.

StoopTroup
12/13/2009, 05:19 PM
LMAO.

Let's go shopping. :D

bluedogok
12/13/2009, 06:51 PM
The commercial real estate market is going to go through a shock probably in the first quarter of next year as many of the debts are going to be due. I see new retail center half empty even here in Austin because of the national chains that have closed and only a few have picked up new tenants. There is also the issue of takeovers of property companies that were financed and debt service coming due. I think the office/industrial sector will be hit harder than the retail sector. The retail sector gets the attention because it is visible, but working in the industry I see how many buildings are sitting empty and the competition between buildings/brokers for space. We are doing many test fits while brokers try to undercut each other, many more than we did even two years ago and in many cases the brokers of their existing spaces are coming in with sweet deals after the numbers have come in from the new spaces. We have had many potential projects go cold because of that and others have been stretched out while they play everyone.

Austin overbuilt but not to the extent than many other markets, we still have new office buildings that came on the market recently sitting empty and then you have companies like AMD which has drastically cut workforce leaving whole buildings (leased) sitting empty. It will be awhile before the commercial market recovers.

I know that I foresaw those problems in that sector and told my wife a few years that it just couldn't keep going at the rate that it was. I figured other sectors would have a similar problem but didn't see it happening in the rapid pace that it did...I feel that the high oil prices at the time worsened the effect and maybe accelerated the inevitable.

Breadburner
12/13/2009, 07:32 PM
Yes, but you didn't have as many "too big to fail" financial (and other) institutions back then. The mega banks and trading of securities known to carry sever risks outside the regulatory structure created much of the problem. Also, the integration of different aspects of businesses contributed to it, how many think it is a good idea that the mega-home builders had their own finance companies to sell overpriced houses that were over-appraised by their own appraisers, to people who couldn't afford them and then knowing bundle bad loans together to sell as securities so they could make their money before they faced the risk of carrying bad mortgages. It's not just business, another big point of fault, the people who bought more than they could afford. The entire focus of the financial world on short term results over long term health is another big contributing factor...again, that goes back to greed and not owning what you are loaning.


Yep, "regulation" is only as good as the people doing the regulating and for the most part are still subject to the frailties and weaknesses that human beings have. Namely greed and corruption.

It's all relative......

SunnySooner
12/13/2009, 08:18 PM
It makes me want to go buy a cabin somewhere and plant my own food, ya know? Sometimes I really worry about the world my kids are growing up in. I know every generation has had its troubles, but ours seem much more complex and unsolveable. I really don't even watch the news anymore, it's so depressing and makes me feel so frustrated and helpless. I think that's why you aren't seeing the "outrage"...folks have decided there's nothing they can do, so they just live their lives the best they can.

Bourbon St Sooner
12/14/2009, 11:23 AM
Even without any shocks I don't see much hope for any growth in the next couple of years. 70% of our economy is consumer spending and much of that was built on excessive debt. My wife and I have been lucky to keep our jobs so far, but looking out a year or two, there's not a lot of confidence out there. People that don't have confidence in their employment situation don't spend money and that's been borne out in the consumer debt stats that we've gotten lately. People are paying down debt and saving what they can, preparing for the worst.

Until the confidence in the job market comes back, the prospects for growth are not good. But at least we have all of this Fed generated liquidity pumping up the stock market (not investing in jobs like it's supposed to).

StoopTroup
12/14/2009, 11:24 AM
^ yep

OklahomaTuba
12/14/2009, 11:46 AM
Even without any shocks I don't see much hope for any growth in the next couple of years. 70% of our economy is consumer spending and much of that was built on excessive debt.

Exactly.

The economy has to "de-leverage", and it sounds like it is going to take a while.

Then factor in the baby boomers need to retire, the public pensions are collapsing, we cannot compete globally like we used to, and we will have to deal with rising energy costs, and the story doesn't get much better.

Unfortunately, we don't use history as a lesson (i.e. Japan).

GottaHavePride
12/14/2009, 12:05 PM
What's even more laughable is you apparently think everyone is corrupt or evil in govt.(or, more likely, you know the little tricks that help get democrats elected, hehe)

I don't think they're corrupt or evil, necessarily. But they are career politicians. Which means that doing what's right has a disturbing tendency to take a backseat to doing what will extend their careers.