Ryan Reynolds denied 6th year.....

[Salt City Sooner]

Unbelievable:

http://www.newsok.com/article/3423093#ixzz0ZAPUyNV6

[setem]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

[tommieharris91]

Can't wait for people here to scream with joy over this news.

[rawlingsHOH]

I think that is old news, as he is currently appealing, correct?

But the precedent has been missing a significant portion of TWO seasons due to injury. And while he has been constantly battling thru injuries and surgeries, I'm not sure he meets that criteria. He really only missed the last half of 2008. I'm not sure how they will consider his 2006 season, as he redshirted.

[JLEW1818]

sucks for Ryan, but

he will have a degree from OU, with football experience.. the kid will not have hard time finding a job.

He seems like he would be a good coach someday

Thanks Ryan!

[OK2U]

That's lame.
Apparently they didn't discuss the current (bribe) market value of a hardship waiver w/ Shipley and Mack.
I'm as excited to see what Ronell and Box have to offer As the rest of you, but Ryan was a coach on the field, even on obvious passing situations.

[OK2U]

*BTW, that's two OU MLBs that the NCAA has screwed in '09.
Just sayin'...

[Crucifax Autumn]

I truly believe that the NCAA is an evil entity sent to deliver death and despair on the world of the living by Satan himself.

[IronHorseSooner]

To me, this should have been as easy of a decision as there could be for them. Once again, the Boz is right!

[SunnySooner]

Wow the NCAA must really hate us. The feeling is definitely mutual.

Feel bad for Ryan, he's shown a lot of intestinal fortitude, knee injuries are teh suc. Wish him all the best in the future, great kid.

[Boomer.....]

I figured he was a shoe-in for a medical hardship.

[olevetonahill]

Can we just withdraw from the NCAA Bull**** ?
They in No way, shape or form even try to be fair :eek:

[SoonerMavrick25]

Here's to RR becoming the next OU defensive coordinator....

[adoniijahsooner]

Here's to RR becoming the next OU defensive coordinator....

I hope he stays around and becomes an assistant. Also, I hear that Tom Wort is running around a little now. Seems his rehab is coming along nicely.

[TXBOOMER]

I didn't think he would get it based on the actual rule. I hope he goes out with a bang in the Sun Bowl. Best wishes to RR.

[delhalew]

I hate that for Ryan. We should definately find a job for him.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I'm as excited to see what Ronell and Box have to offer As the rest of you, but Ryan was a coach on the field, even on obvious passing situations.

This.

If Ronnell Lewis brings it from the MLB spot like he brings it on special teams, this kid is gonna be a hammer-swingin' bringer of death. And if Wort's high school film translates to the college game, this kid is gonna be a Teddy Lehman-caliber, USDA approved stud.

Nothing against Enid's finest, either. That kid can bring the stank, too.

[rawlingsHOH]

What I have just heard.... this thing is possibly hinging on the 2008 season.

If you recall, Ryan played as a true, in 2005, in a back-up/special teams role. He then redshirted in 2006, after suffering an off-season knee injury. In a prior NCAA case, it was noted that if a player could prove, with documentation (of course Ryan could), that an injury was the sole reason for the redshirt, that the redshirt year could be considered as one of the two injured seasons they "require".

This brings us back to 2008, in which Ryan was injured against Texas. Played in 6 games, missed the last 8 games. Evidently their definition of significant, is more than 8 games.

Any additional injuries suffered could also add to his cause. As they handle these on a case by case basis. He missed some time with a neck injury in 2007, and this year's leg injury.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

What I have just heard.... this thing is possibly hinging on the 2008 season.

If you recall, Ryan played as a true, in 2005, in a back-up/special teams role. He then redshirted in 2006, after suffering an off-season knee injury. In a prior NCAA case, it was noted that if a player could prove, with documentation (of course Ryan could), that an injury was the sole reason for the redshirt, that the redshirt year could be considered as one of the two injured seasons they "require".

This brings us back to 2008, in which Ryan was injured against Texas. Played in 6 games, missed the last 8 games. Evidently their definition of significant, is more than 8 games.

Any additional injuries suffered could also add to his cause. As they handle these on a case by case basis. He missed some time with a neck injury in 2007, and this year's leg injury.

i'm not really all that surprised. had jason not gotten hurt early in the season, he would have been denied his 6th year too.

[goingoneight]

Seems we don't know everything about it. RR is a good guy, but who knows if his grades are what they need to be to score brownie points for a 6th year?

It would be very interesting to see how and why Shipley got it, but Reynolds didn't.

[Salt City Sooner]

Shipley missed the entire '04 & '05 seasons w/ injuries. He was pretty much a slam dunk for a 6th year if he wanted it.

[icmwhOU72]

Ryan Reynolds is a defensive mvp for us this year. I thought he was going to hurt us during the season because i was not sure of his lateral movement and overall speed, but he proved me wrong and had a heck of a season for us. But looking forward to next year with clayton and reynolds gone. Wort, ronnell, and travis will turn into one of the most impressive lb corps ou has ever had. I am excited about our D next year. i think that we might get more athletic at every position next year except replacing McCoy. Macfarland will be special but it will be hard to replace gerald.

[Jello Biafra]

Ryan Reynolds is a defensive mvp for us this year. I thought he was going to hurt us during the season because i was not sure of his lateral movement and overall speed, but he proved me wrong and had a heck of a season for us. But looking forward to next year with clayton and reynolds gone. Wort, ronnell, and travis will turn into one of the most impressive lb corps ou has ever had. I am excited about our D next year. i think that we might get more athletic at every position next year except replacing McCoy. Macfarland will be special but it will be hard to replace gerald.

once again. don't count on mccoy leaving.

[rawlingsHOH]

Ryan Reynolds is a defensive mvp for us this year. I thought he was going to hurt us during the season because i was not sure of his lateral movement and overall speed, but he proved me wrong and had a heck of a season for us. But looking forward to next year with clayton and reynolds gone. Wort, ronnell, and travis will turn into one of the most impressive lb corps ou has ever had. I am excited about our D next year. i think that we might get more athletic at every position next year except replacing McCoy. Macfarland will be special but it will be hard to replace gerald.
He's definitely the QB out there, but I'm not sure I'd call him the MVP, when he had to spend so much time on the sidelines for our two best defensive efforts of the year; OSU (injuries) and Texas (scheme).

[MyT Oklahoma]

I thought Gerald already said he would be leaving after this year or did I not hear that right? I'd love to see him back for one more year before he starts earning paychecks on Sunday's.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Ryan Reynolds is a defensive mvp for us this year. I thought he was going to hurt us during the season because i was not sure of his lateral movement and overall speed, but he proved me wrong and had a heck of a season for us. But looking forward to next year with clayton and reynolds gone. Wort, ronnell, and travis will turn into one of the most impressive lb corps ou has ever had. I am excited about our D next year. i think that we might get more athletic at every position next year except replacing McCoy. Macfarland will be special but it will be hard to replace gerald.

you know its a weird year when i can see where your coming from. personally, i'd say the mvp was brian jackson because without some of his clutch plays on the goal line we might not be bowl eligible.

i guess it comes down to what you expect out of the position. ryan reynolds is a throwback to a bygone era. if you watched gary gibbs play the run, you'd probably see a lot of what you see from reynolds. the problem is that the teams we face don't run the ball 70 times a game. so your linebackers have to be able to plug the run, stop a screen on the boundary, and get back and change the arc of throws in front of the safeties or they have to have a knack for getting to the QB.

to the best of his ability, reynolds did these things this year. however, that doesn't mean that our linebacker play was up to OU standards. yes, our expectations for the position may seem crazy to other fanbases, but OU year after year puts a linebacker corps on the field that other teams would die to have once a century. call me spoiled, call me whatever, but those linebackers are OU. when i see our linebackers out there chicken fighting with OL it just annoys the crap out of me. have they run the OKLAHOMA drill? it isn't about going around an OL to the ball carrier, its about going THROUGH them. gah.

when was the last time you saw another team just not even bother to run up the middle? when every single play is misdirection so that they can "use the speed of the defense" against them? when you saw 3 linebackers come out of no where BEHIND the line of scrimmage and detonate someone? when was the last time that you saw us OVERRUN a screen play? when was the last time you saw a linebacker have an OL in one arm and tackle the running back in the hole with the other?

[FaninAma]

once again. don't count on mccoy leaving.

Que?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

you know its a weird year when i can see where your coming from. personally, i'd say the mvp was brian jackson because without some of his clutch plays on the goal line we might not be bowl eligible.

i guess it comes down to what you expect out of the position. ryan reynolds is a throwback to a bygone era. if you watched gary gibbs play the run, you'd probably see a lot of what you see from reynolds. the problem is that the teams we face don't run the ball 70 times a game. so your linebackers have to be able to plug the run, stop a screen on the boundary, and get back and change the arc of throws in front of the safeties or they have to have a knack for getting to the QB.

to the best of his ability, reynolds did these things this year. however, that doesn't mean that our linebacker play was up to OU standards. yes, our expectations for the position may seem crazy to other fanbases, but OU year after year puts a linebacker corps on the field that other teams would die to have once a century. call me spoiled, call me whatever, but those linebackers are OU. when i see our linebackers out there chicken fighting with OL it just annoys the crap out of me. have they run the OKLAHOMA drill? it isn't about going around an OL to the ball carrier, its about going THROUGH them. gah.

when was the last time you saw another team just not even bother to run up the middle? when every single play is misdirection so that they can "use the speed of the defense" against them? when you saw 3 linebackers come out of no where BEHIND the line of scrimmage and detonate someone? when was the last time that you saw us OVERRUN a screen play? when was the last time you saw a linebacker have an OL in one arm and tackle the running back in the hole with the other?

Like I've said before, Lewis plays LB like a runningback and Clayton plays like a safety...avoid contact (especially Lewis)...I like Clayton btw, but neither one is going to shed a block...which has been a knock on OU backers for a while from NFLers....Can make open field tackles but stand still when somebody puts a hat on em...

I would have to say Gerald McCoy as MVP...I could have went with Jackson until his play at TT....

McCoy's play against BYU down the stretch was phenominal...

[icmwhOU72]

The reason that i mentioned reynolds as an mvp wasnt because of purely outstanding play, but because he exceeded my expectations so much. I thought he would be a burden to our D and he turned out to be a nice leader and did not give up really huge plays over the middle. I thought he would just be a stump in the middle with no agility. I expected guys like mccoy and beal and lewis to have big years, but not reynolds. As for brian jackson, he is the most underrated corner in the country and i bet that he will sneak into the second round of the draft because of his size and physical play. If he runs in the 4.5's i think he will be a second round lock.

[badger]

Soooo... RR still has a chance at a sixth year, correct?

[NormanPride]

Yeah, once we started running man to man a bit more, Brian showed off his skills.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The people that matter aren't underrating him...If his measureables are true, he is one of the top 5 corners which would make him about 2nd round possibly late 1st with a solid 40.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The people that matter aren't underrating him...If his measureables are true, he is one of the top 5 corners which would make him about 2nd round possibly late 1st with a solid 40.

if he sneaks into the 1st round, he should mail 1/2 his paycheck to demontre hurst. the jackson who came back onto the field against texas after almost being wally pip'd is not the same jackson we saw the previous 2 years.

[NormanPride]

Whatever it takes, man. I really hope Hurst is the next Strait...

[Scott D]

It's not a surprise, and it's probably the better of the two choices imo. Time for these young bucks not getting snaps to earn their scholarships.

[badger]

Soooo... RR still has a chance at a sixth year, correct?

Soooo... RR still has a chance at a sixth year, correct?

[rawlingsHOH]

if he sneaks into the 1st round, he should mail 1/2 his paycheck to demontre hurst. the jackson who came back onto the field against texas after almost being wally pip'd is not the same jackson we saw the previous 2 years.
Brian Jackson was fantastic the last 1/3 of the 2008 season. The middle-third of that year, was some of the worst corner play I'd ever seen (Tex, KU, KSU), but he rebounded.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Jackson leveled off this season to be more consistent....If he truly is 6'1 200, and can run sub 4.5, he has a good chance of sneaking in....

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Whatever it takes, man. I really hope Hurst is the next Strait...

I don't think Hurst is that guy....His size concerns me enough that I wouldn't ever match him up on another teams #1....

[rawlingsHOH]

i'd say the mvp was brian jackson because without some of his clutch plays on the goal line we might not be bowl eligible.

Hyperbole?

We won one game all year by less than 22 points. And even in that one, we were up 21-0 after 1Q.

[Jello Biafra]

Soooo... RR still has a chance at a sixth year, correct?

on appeal. im sure, but with our track record with those leg humpers, i wouldn't bet the wisconsin cheese on it. ;)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I don't think Hurst is that guy....His size concerns me enough that I wouldn't ever match him up on another teams #1....

meh, the only people you really have to worry about are the ones that get separation by push off (shipley, woods, malcolm kelly, etc.). with his closing speed, he's going to be baiting a lot of throws.

[rawlingsHOH]

Jackson leveled off this season to be more consistent....If he truly is 6'1 200, and can run sub 4.5, he has a good chance of sneaking in....

He's truly that big. Though I'd guess he probably around a 4.55 guy.

[Jello Biafra]

I thought Gerald already said he would be leaving after this year or did I not hear that right? I'd love to see him back for one more year before he starts earning paychecks on Sunday's.

i dont know where you heard that. id like to see the link on it for sure. I have talked to his dad in the gym here on base. hes never said yay or nay but he certainly doesn't sound like a guy who will make his mind up for his son. i do know that before his mother died, HER priority was for him to enjoy his college career and get his degree and i remember how bad he took it when his momma died.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

meh, the only people you really have to worry about are the ones that get separation by push off (shipley, woods, malcolm kelly, etc.). with his closing speed, he's going to be baiting a lot of throws.

Every team out there is throwing out a big receiver at number 1...I just don't like the match up of a 6-2 215 lb receiver vs a 5'9 165 lb corner...that corner has to be exceptional to play that receiver and I don't know really how exceptional he is yet...

Strait could play physical if he had to because he was right under 6' and weighed about 190...

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Hyperbole?

We won one game all year by less than 22 points. And even in that one, we were up 21-0 after 1Q.

its more of a subjective interpretation of how the games played out. teams fall apart when they have a chain of disheartening losses. had we had more of those early, we could have fell apart and ended the season with a 5-7 season. jackson had 2 or 3 INTs early in games in the red zone when we looked like we couldn't stop anything. they took the wind out of the sails of opposing teams and allowed us to reassert ourselves. had those went in for TDs, old mo might not have been with us.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Every team out there is throwing out a big receiver at number 1...I just don't like the match up of a 6-2 215 lb receiver vs a 5'9 165 lb corner...that corner has to be exceptional to play that receiver and I don't know really how exceptional he is yet...

Strait could play physical if he had to because he was right under 6' and weighed about 190...

you are using pro parameters instead of college. how many QBs do we face on an annual basis that can make that throw, consistently, with enough accuracy to defeat tight coverage? undersized corners have done quite well in college because they take advantage of the lack of accuracy in college quarterbacks.

[rawlingsHOH]

its more of a subjective interpretation of how the games played out. teams fall apart when they have a chain of disheartening losses. had we had more of those early, we could have fell apart and ended the season with a 5-7 season. jackson had 2 or 3 INTs early in games in the red zone when we looked like we couldn't stop anything. they took the wind out of the sails of opposing teams and allowed us to reassert ourselves. had those went in for TDs, old mo might not have been with us.
Well, how would you have subjectively interperated the prospect of our defense without GK McCoy? ;)

He was our most talented player, and playing at our thinnest position.

[rawlingsHOH]

you are using pro parameters instead of college. how many QBs do we face on an annual basis that can make that throw, consistently, with enough accuracy to defeat tight coverage? undersized corners have done quite well in college because they take advantage of the lack of accuracy in college quarterbacks.
I agree, the pro game is a little more about the match-ups.

[VA Sooner]

Sucks for Ryan.

Kid's got a lot of potential however. With his on-field smarts, he'll be a great defensive coach... perhaps a grad student at OU????

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Well, how would you have subjectively interperated the prospect of our defense without GK McCoy? ;)

He was our most talented player, and playing at our thinnest position.

you could make just as much of a case for beal. as in all things, everyone is going to view things differently, i tend to weigh clutch production over other things. when an opposing team is in our red zone and you shut them down with a turnover/sack/tackle for loss then you get extra points from me.

[ouleaf]

That kid can bring the stank, too.

Mark :D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

you are using pro parameters instead of college. how many QBs do we face on an annual basis that can make that throw, consistently, with enough accuracy to defeat tight coverage? undersized corners have done quite well in college because they take advantage of the lack of accuracy in college quarterbacks.

I can see that as that's what I view about every player...But I will continue on anyway:D

There is one good corner in the conference with comparable build...The Brown kid from Colorado...He is 5'7 or 5'8 and plays at about 175...But even he switches to the nickel back in passing situations and is where most of his big plays come from...

Personally, I think he will be a good player...A Derrick Strait type corner? Who knows.....

But I am wondering what weight he can play at with a high level.

[icmwhOU72]

We are not that thin at DT. for some reason our coaches do a horrible job of rotating personnel. we burnt up macfarlands redshirt and of the three plays i saw him play against aTm he had two sacks. The same could be said at end where in the same series that macfarland got his sacks, it was r j washington that forced the qb to step up in the pocket. If we would have just played the guys that we had available we would not have looked so thin on the line.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

The coaches have always done a good job at rotating the Dlineman IMO..But for some reason, it didn't happen this season

[icmwhOU72]

On the demontre hurst size thing, one of the top corners in the contry is that sda'quan (sp?) kid from cal. He is a first roound projection at 5'8 175. I dont think it is fair to compare him to strait. Hurst probably doesnt play the same style. If our coaches have any sense they will either put him on a comprable size wr or give him safety help over the top in a jump ball situation.

[goingoneight]

Maybe because the backups are something to be concerned about in 2010?

Hope not... but consider it a possibility. I remember people proclaiming Quentin Chaney would make an IMMEDIATE impact with the 2004 group. He didn't really come on until late in his sophomore year (year 3 of his career). Same for Tennell who hasn't really been anything to write home about.

Until I see McFarland, Wort, Washington or Chaisson TAKE OVER a game, they're just names and numbers to me.

[Jello Biafra]

Maybe because the backups are something to be concerned about in 2010?

Hope not... but consider it a possibility. I remember people proclaiming Quentin Chaney would make an IMMEDIATE impact with the 2004 group. He didn't really come on until late in his sophomore year (year 3 of his career). Same for Tennell who hasn't really been anything to write home about.

Until I see McFarland, Wort, Washington or Chaisson TAKE OVER a game, they're just names and numbers to me.

apparently you havent been watching....

mcfarland didnt TAKE OVER the game but on back to back plays earlier this year he had a tackle for loss one of them on a solo....hes not there yet but he certainly reminded me of moe dampeer/tommie harris in those two plays.

to my knowledge, mcfarland and washington have been the only ones to play so far...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

On the demontre hurst size thing, one of the top corners in the contry is that sda'quan (sp?) kid from cal. He is a first roound projection at 5'8 175. I dont think it is fair to compare him to strait. Hurst probably doesnt play the same style. If our coaches have any sense they will either put him on a comprable size wr or give him safety help over the top in a jump ball situation.

Well Syd'Quan is actually 5'9 1/2 and plays at around 192 lbs....

Thats why I wonder what weight Hurst will be able to play at

[icmwhOU72]

Well Syd'Quan is actually 5'9 1/2 and plays at around 192 lbs....

Thats why I wonder what weight Hurst will be able to play at

oh my bad i thought he was 5'8 but still 5'9 is not huge by any means.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

No its not....I just sent a text to a pac10 guy who says 5'9 to 5'9 1/2....

Now again if your are going to be 5'8 5,9, can you carry 192 lbs like Thompson and play at a high level?...Creating separation between 192 lbs and 165 lbs is a lot different.

[rawlingsHOH]

We are not that thin at DT. for some reason our coaches do a horrible job of rotating personnel. we burnt up macfarlands redshirt and of the three plays i saw him play against aTm he had two sacks.
We are thin. We've usually had a DL rotation of 4 tackles and 3 ends. Some years only 3 tackles were used. This season, only 2! And those guys were physically exhausted by the 4th quarter in a couple of the losses. McFarland, Moore and McGee never gained the coaches confidence.

Regarding MacFarland's redshirt, he played early in the season too.

[icmwhOU72]

We are thin. We've usually had a DL rotation of 4 tackles and 3 ends. Some years only 3 tackles were used. This season, only 2! And those guys were physically exhausted by the 4th quarter in a couple of the losses. McFarland, Moore and McGee never gained the coaches confidence.

Regarding MacFarland's redshirt, he played early in the season too.

All i am saying is that macfarland, moore and mcgee are good enough to spell taylor and mccoy in the second and third qtrs so that they would not be completely exhausted in the fourth. I dont care what you say, i watched macfarland in the aTm game and that kid played very good technique and created havoc on those two plays. Now how much that was him and how much that was the aTm o line just giving up you will never know, but as an o lineman no matter what the game looks like you never want to give up sacks. And while i am on a mini rant, i think that had we rotated our d line we may have stopped byu and miami on their last drives.

[rawlingsHOH]

All i am saying is that macfarland, moore and mcgee are good enough to spell taylor and mccoy in the second and third qtrs so that they would not be completely exhausted in the fourth. I dont care what you say, i watched macfarland in the aTm game and that kid played very good technique and created havoc on those two plays. Now how much that was him and how much that was the aTm o line just giving up you will never know, but as an o lineman no matter what the game looks like you never want to give up sacks. And while i am on a mini rant, i think that had we rotated our d line we may have stopped byu and miami on their last drives.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

What I am saying is... it isn't against Venables'/Stoops' philosophy to rotate their DTs, because they've always done so in the past. But obviously this year they do not feel the back-ups are ready for significant playing time. That alone makes us thin.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm not disagreeing with that.

What I am saying is... it isn't against Venables'/Stoops' philosophy to rotate their DTs, because they've always done so in the past. But obviously this year they do not feel the back-ups are ready for significant playing time. That alone makes us thin.

earlier in the year, i made the statement that this wasn't a great defense, it was an opportunistic one. to be a great defense, you have to exceed the sum of your parts and we have just not been able to do that the last couple of years (mainly because our linebacker corps has been average at best). so if you are basically as good as the players on the field, you inject a lot of risk when you take your top playmakers off the field.

look at it from another perspective, nebraska pulls suh for a series or 2 a game. when suh is out, the opponents move the ball. yes, you may get one play at the end of the game if you rest him, but is that worth the other team putting up 7 points on one big play when suh is on the sidelines that might have been prevented?

[icmwhOU72]

I agree with you. I have trouble with stoops philosophy sometimes though, i think that he puts way too much emphasis on everyone being "practice" players and some guys are just straight up gamers, which is what i believe jameal owens is, sometimes you just have to let players play. there are a ton of great player in all professional sports that are not great practice players but have a switch they turn on during games. I just wish the coaches would give these type of players a chance. I do understand the drawback and the message that sends to the team that you dont have to practice hard if you are good in a game, but for a young kid if they get more playing time, maybe they will practice the way you want.

[icmwhOU72]

earlier in the year, i made the statement that this wasn't a great defense, it was an opportunistic one. to be a great defense, you have to exceed the sum of your parts and we have just not been able to do that the last couple of years (mainly because our linebacker corps has been average at best). so if you are basically as good as the players on the field, you inject a lot of risk when you take your top playmakers off the field.

look at it from another perspective, nebraska pulls suh for a series or 2 a game. when suh is out, the opponents move the ball. yes, you may get one play at the end of the game if you rest him, but is that worth the other team putting up 7 points on one big play when suh is on the sidelines that might have been prevented?

Its a catch 22. yeah if you leave suh, mccoy in then the offense might not put up that 7 spot in the second or third qtr, but i would rather give up the td in the middle of the game and put my best player in the game in the 4th qtr 75-85% rested than my best player at about 55% rested when the game may be on the line.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Its a catch 22. yeah if you leave suh, mccoy in then the offense might not put up that 7 spot in the second or third qtr, but i would rather give up the td in the middle of the game and put my best player in the game in the 4th qtr 75-85% rested than my best player at about 55% rested when the game may be on the line.

and so would i IF my offense was putting up 63 a game, but when they are putting up 10-14 on the road - not so much.

[mightysooner]

We'll be okay with Austin Box.

[ouduckhunter]

Can we just withdraw from the NCAA Bull**** ?
They in No way, shape or form even try to be fair :eek:

I've always wondered the same thing...to hel* with them!

[rawlingsHOH]

earlier in the year, i made the statement that this wasn't a great defense, it was an opportunistic one. to be a great defense, you have to exceed the sum of your parts and we have just not been able to do that the last couple of years (mainly because our linebacker corps has been average at best). so if you are basically as good as the players on the field, you inject a lot of risk when you take your top playmakers off the field.

look at it from another perspective, nebraska pulls suh for a series or 2 a game. when suh is out, the opponents move the ball. yes, you may get one play at the end of the game if you rest him, but is that worth the other team putting up 7 points on one big play when suh is on the sidelines that might have been prevented?
You are a little more down on our backers than I am. Though I'd agree we haven't had two really outstanding ones playing at the same time since 2002, Lehman and Mitchell.

WLB/MLB/SLB
08 Lewis, Reynolds (or Box/Balogun), Clayton
07 Reynolds, Lofton, Baker
06 Alexander, Latimer, Lofton (or Pleasant)
05 Alexander, Latimer, Ingram
04 Alexander, Mitchell, Ingram
03 Lehman, Allen (or Chambers), Jackson
02 Lehman, Mitchell, Jackson
01 Calmus, Lehman, Moore
00 Calmus, Marshall, Steffan
99 Calmus, Marshall, Steffan (or Moore)

Please correct any mistakes!

[westbrooke]

You are a little more down on our backers than I am. Though I'd agree we haven't had two really outstanding ones playing at the same time since 2002, Lehman and Mitchell.

WLB/MLB/SLB
08 Lewis, Reynolds (or Box/Balogun), Clayton
07 Reynolds, Lofton, Baker
06 Alexander, Latimer, Lofton (or Pleasant)
05 Alexander, Latimer, Ingram
04 Alexander, Mitchell, Ingram
03 Lehman, Allen (or Chambers), Jackson
02 Lehman, Mitchell, Jackson
01 Calmus, Lehman, Moore
00 Calmus, Marshall, Steffan
99 Calmus, Marshall, Steffan (or Moore)

Please correct any mistakes!

This didn't bug me as much until jkm pointed it out, and I can still be talked into either camp, but the bolded names above quickly stood out to me as top performers (may be giving Alexander a little too much credit for 04, can't remember that well). I think Reynolds 08 could have gotten there if not for the injury. I had to stop and think about Lewis 08; he was a standout last year, but that may be because he thoroughly exceeded expectations, not because his top end was objectively that great.

I know everyone seems to be high on Wort. Is there anyone else that you all think can hit this level? Can Lewis or Box still get there?

[rawlingsHOH]

This didn't bug me as much until jkm pointed it out, and I can still be talked into either camp, but the bolded names above quickly stood out to me as top performers (may be giving Alexander a little too much credit for 04, can't remember that well). I think Reynolds 08 could have gotten there if not for the injury. I had to stop and think about Lewis 08; he was a standout last year, but that may be because he thoroughly exceeded expectations, not because his top end was objectively that great.

I know everyone seems to be high on Wort. Is there anyone else that you all think can hit this level? Can Lewis or Box still get there?

I think 04 Mitchell was a figment of his 02-03 form.

I agree with you about Reynolds, he was outstanding in 08. Lewis too.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

your looking at individual players not the unit. there are several units that played better than the sum of their parts on that list THOSE are the great linebacker units of the stoops era.

the 2000 squad didn't have as much talent as any of the other squads but they played with a passion that none of the others could match.

[Jello Biafra]

I know everyone seems to be high on Wort. Is there anyone else that you all think can hit this level? Can Lewis or Box still get there?

can lewis or box STILL get there? you do know they are only sophmores right? of course they will. i think the only thing keeping them from being lights out is experience. you throw bird, wort RO lewis and franklin in there, sprinkle some competition and mix in some experience, we will probably have what is likely going to be one of the strongest lb corps in the nation. just my opinion.

[westbrooke]

can lewis or box STILL get there? you do know they are only sophmores right? of course they will. i think the only thing keeping them from being lights out is experience. you throw bird, wort RO lewis and franklin in there, sprinkle some competition and mix in some experience, we will probably have what is likely going to be one of the strongest lb corps in the nation. just my opinion.

Of course they're only sophomores, but to hear everyone talk about Lewis, it sounds like the prevailing opinion is that the guy has no heart to make a tough play. Fixing heart isn't the same as putting on a few more pounds or learning how to read an O better, and he may bolt for the NFL money before that switch ever turns on. Box has been floating around the depth chart, which is keeping him from getting exactly the experience you're talking about. And then he's going to have to compete against that list of new LBs you mention, and they can't all be All Americans.

So let me rephrase the question: which of our linebackers will become standouts and elevate the play of the unit? No fair saying "all of them." This isn't Lake Wobegon. ;)

[Jello Biafra]

Of course they're only sophomores, but to hear everyone talk about Lewis, it sounds like the prevailing opinion is that the guy has no heart to make a tough play. Fixing heart isn't the same as putting on a few more pounds or learning how to read an O better, and he may bolt for the NFL money before that switch ever turns on. Box has been floating around the depth chart, which is keeping him from getting exactly the experience you're talking about. And then he's going to have to compete against that list of new LBs you mention, and they can't all be All Americans.

So let me rephrase the question: which of our linebackers will become standouts and elevate the play of the unit? No fair saying "all of them." This isn't Lake Wobegon. ;)



my honest opinion is...EVENTUALLY (maybe at the beginning of the season) box will be at SLB...lewis will be at WLB and wort will be at middle. when TRAVIS lewis leaves, Ronnel should be able to step in.

My thinking is the problem with box and lewis right now is the game hasn't slowed down for either yet. lewis is not patient enough. when he sees something, he goes balls to the wall and ends up taking himself out of the play by over persuing or commiting himself before he needs to. THATS why he ends up getting in the way of a 300lb lineman and getting sealed off of a tackle. box is similar but im giving him a little bit more leeway because i saw him play in the playoffs a few years ago vs mustang. he is a game changing defender and he was playing safety when i saw him personally. the game is too fast for him right now because he is still learning his job and he was splitting time with reynolds...for obvious reasons, reynolds leadership on the field is far more valuable to the defense as a whole than box's POTENTIAL.

[Jello Biafra]

btw, i dont think lewis goes anywhere until he is a guranteed first round draft pick.

[rawlingsHOH]

Next year I'm guessing....

WLB Lewis
MLB Box
Nickel Ibiloye

[NormanPride]

Unless Wort tears it up in practice like he did, I would agree.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I'm gonna say something and then let you guys call me names...

I don't see Box as ever being anything more than an average linebacker at best..

bye

[NormanPride]

Average for OU standards, yeah. But he's already pretty good for us. I don't think he's a huge playmaker, but I think he's not someone you can pick on either.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm gonna say something and then let you guys call me names...

I don't see Box as ever being anything more than an average linebacker at best..

bye

so that is what? 2 notches above travis lewis? box reminds me a LOT of lehman. disruptive as crap, but can't finish the play because he overruns it.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I don't know I would call him average for OU standards...I think he could be an ok player...do something good every once in a while...Tom Wort on the other hand could be pretty allsome

[stoops the eternal pimp]

so that is what? 2 notches above travis lewis? box reminds me a LOT of lehman. disruptive as crap, but can't finish the play because he overruns it.

perhaps just one notch over lewis...I really don't know who I would compare him to, but I haven't seen enough that I would say he is the answer at MLB

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I don't know I would call him average for OU standards...I think he could be an ok player...do something good every once in a while...Tom Wort on the other hand could be pretty allsome

what i'm saying is that he is a step UP from what we have on the field right now.

box plays on the opponents side of the line of scrimmage regardless of whether he is being covered. he doesn't mug (which i'm pretty sure venables doesn't teach since no other linebacker but lewis has ever done it), he is in a normal position, disects and goes. he just can't finish.

with linebackers, if they guess and guess consistently right, ala calmus, we call that instincts. my biggest problem with reynolds is that when he is covered, he guesses and most of the time, he guesses wrong. if no one covers him, the guy is brian bosworth (as evidenced by his perfect score against washington last year when they didn't try to block him once). now he has sort of been able to get away with it because not every team has an OL that can deal with mccoy. however, the ones that do have that OL - scheme around mccoy and cover reynolds and have just absolutely gashed us on the ground.

travis lewis COULD be a good linebacker if he'd ever grow up. as it is, i fully expect him to just jack around all offseason and eventually get benched next year from poor play. this is assuming we don't pull a bobby bowden and insist on playing the vets because of loyalty.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Perhaps he would be better at one of the outside spots then?

[Jello Biafra]

what i'm saying is that he is a step UP from what we have on the field right now.

box plays on the opponents side of the line of scrimmage regardless of whether he is being covered.

this is what MAKES an outstanding LB and its what i was fumbling around and forgot to say...speed to get there, toughness to make the play. travis lewis has that ability but i havent seen him CONSISTANTLY make it happen.


wort
will not be kept off the field. i guarandamntee it.

[Jello Biafra]

Perhaps he would be better at one of the outside spots then?

which is what i said?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

this is what MAKES an outstanding LB...speed to get there, tougness to make the play. travis lewis has that ability but i havent seen him CONSISTANTLY make it happen.


wort
will not be kept off the field. i guarandamntee it.

I haven't seen that toughness from Travis Lewis at all...He is good when has a free shot but I haven't seen a sooner LB give up on a play after being blocked like T Lewis does

[icmwhOU72]

Box is going to be a career backup in my opinion. I think our starters next year will be wort and the lewis brothers. We might be building a defense like florida has had he last two years in which they returned 22 players off a nc winning D. We have soo much young talent coming in and on the roster. I am a huge wort fan and believer. I think from a measurables standpoint, he is the most athletic MLB we have had in the bob stoops era.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Off the backers we have now, I have to say I'm a big believer in Ronnell...Could be a Curtis Lofton type player

[Jello Biafra]

Box is going to be a career backup in my opinion.

i disagree and it doesnt matter why i just do. but, with your response, i have to ask this. in obvious situations, would YOU (acting as BV) move box to the FS spot on running downs. maybe thats his strength and we should utilize it. i personally like him at SLB because 70% of the time, the offense will run to that side...and if he is getting up field on that side, he will be causing havoc so to speak.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Off the backers we have now, I have to say I'm a big believer in Ronnell...Could be a Curtis Lofton type player

i hope so, his size scares me. unless he is a lean type he is going to eat his way into being a tweener.

[Jello Biafra]

i see brandon crow has been moved to FB...i suspect the D coaches like this group of linebackers and the ones coming in next year and i think we are getting ready to see some dominance come into play.

what specifically have you guys seen out of ronnel so far that has you all giddy about him?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

1. Size...The few times I've been around him jkm, he looks like a lean type to me...
2. Tackling...special teams and the small amount of time he has got lb game time....Much like Curtis, physical tackler..
3. toughness.. strong enough to chuck a blocker and isn't afraid of contact before getting to the ball carrier...

[Jello Biafra]

1. Size...The few times I've been around him jkm, he looks like a lean type to me...
2. Tackling...special teams and the small amount of time he has got lb game time....Much like Curtis, physical tackler..
3. toughness.. strong enough to chuck a blocker and isn't afraid of contact before getting to the ball carrier...

ok. im digging it. ive seen him in on special teams but havent been to many practices so i didnt know if what you guys were seeing was at the actual linebacker position.

i do know the kid we are getting from jenks is a lot like wort. i think he had probably 10 solos against yukon in the playoffs this year and was in on probably 6-8 more...just couldnt run away from him. the ONLY time i saw him get punked was when he tried to tackle our 5'7" 280 FB by the shoulder pads. he definately got him some on that play.

so, to add further to this conversation, with all the ones we have and the ones coming in, and the fact that we have a rock solid front 4...we should be expecting some plays from these kids next year. it all starts with the Dlineman keeping the backers clean. if they can do that, the backers should have free reign over the LOS.

now if they can just stay aggressive and disciplined.

[rawlingsHOH]

Box is going to be a career backup in my opinion. I think our starters next year will be wort and the lewis brothers. We might be building a defense like florida has had he last two years in which they returned 22 players off a nc winning D. We have soo much young talent coming in and on the roster. I am a huge wort fan and believer. I think from a measurables standpoint, he is the most athletic MLB we have had in the bob stoops era.

From a "measurables standpoint" he's the size of a safety.

I see Wort cutting his teeth on the specialty teams next season (like many of the backers do), and playing either Will or Mike as a sophomore.

[Jello Biafra]

From a "measurables standpoint" he's the size of a safety.

I see Wort cutting his teeth on the specialty teams next season (like many of the backers do), and playing either Will or Mike as a sophomore.

don't bet on it. at the beginning of the season. the coaches said they would be putting wort and bird on the special teams because they were too good to keep off the field. if any of these current linebackers arent playing up to expectations, expect those two to be in there.

in ALL of worts videos, you can see hi mmaking plays (at least every other play) on the offensive side of the ball. we all know box is currently doing that. if travis doesnt start doing that, well, you get the point.

[Jello Biafra]

From a "measurables standpoint" he's the size of a safety.

I see Wort cutting his teeth on the specialty teams next season (like many of the backers do), and playing either Will or Mike as a sophomore.

a relatively large safety. if he gains weight like the average player, he will be between 228-232 at the beginning of next season. regardless of his height, i still color him a linebacker. if hes listed at 6'0" 220 (which he is) he is probably 5'11" 217 or so... this will still put him at 227 or so and maybe 6'0" this, in my eyes, is still lb size. especially with his attitude.

[westbrooke]

Thanks guys. I don't live in Norman anymore, so I don't see much of the practices or scrimmages where these young guys get work. That makes for a black hole of sorts between recruiting and when they actually see the field for a game.

[msteudem]

If I'm not mistaking, Travis Lewis leads the team in tackles this year.

[Jello Biafra]

If I'm not mistaking, Travis Lewis leads the team in tackles this year.

he does...not saying anything negative but most of his tackles are usually from the side or the back. id (personally) like to see him make more of those at the LOS or behind it.

[icmwhOU72]

i disagree and it doesnt matter why i just do. but, with your response, i have to ask this. in obvious situations, would YOU (acting as BV) move box to the FS spot on running downs. maybe thats his strength and we should utilize it. i personally like him at SLB because 70% of the time, the offense will run to that side...and if he is getting up field on that side, he will be causing havoc so to speak.

So are you asking if i would have Box at Free, Carter at Stong, T. Lewis, Wort, and R Lewis at backer on a running situtaion and basically play a four LB set with Carter as a 9 man box? Well if i am playing "what if's" I would put Carter at Free and Tony Jefferson at Stong with the three afore mentioned backers. ha ha. I am not in love with box. i Believe that he is a very solid back up and will be listed on the depth chart next year as the number 2 MIKE and the number 2 Sam. Now if we wanted to run a 4-4 D then i would definately have him as the MLB on the weakside and just take the FS off the field

[icmwhOU72]

Hey jsut so you guys know, Soonerspors.com posts videos of portions of every practice and scrimmage during the spring camps and i believe they do the same for the fall also. So if you what to watch one on one drills they have them on that website on the football homepage.

[Jello Biafra]

Now if we wanted to run a 4-4 D then i would definately have him as the MLB on the weakside and just take the FS off the field

not a bad idea at all but that D is seriosuly flawed in the college game. but what do i know, i also think with as thin as we have been in the Dline the last year or so, we should been using more 3-4 defense too.

[rawlingsHOH]

not a bad idea at all but that D is seriosuly flawed in the college game. but what do i know, i also think with as thin as we have been in the Dline the last year or so, we should been using more 3-4 defense too.
We play a lot 3 man against the spread teams, and 3rd downs. Taylor at nose, McCoy and Alexander at DE, and Beal stand up. Doesn't really help the thinness of our DL, because we are using the same personell, just different alignment.

[icmwhOU72]

I would not mind seeing a little 3-3-5 especially with all the young talent in the secondary. we could have a combo of dom franks, hurst, carter, ibolye, nelson, kevin brent, trice, javon harris, tony jefferson(hopefully) and sam proctor as our five defensive backs.

[icmwhOU72]

not a bad idea at all but that D is seriosuly flawed in the college game. but what do i know, i also think with as thin as we have been in the Dline the last year or so, we should been using more 3-4 defense too.

that defense is not flawed it has just morphed into the 4-2-5 which is the scheme TCU runs. They traded in the two OLB's for more of a hybrid safety type player that can play the run just as well as the pass.

[rawlingsHOH]

that defense is not flawed it has just morphed into the 4-2-5 which is the scheme TCU runs. They traded in the two OLB's for more of a hybrid safety type player that can play the run just as well as the pass.
You are exactly right.

Though the scheme kinda got run out of the conference after OSU and Mizzou experimented with it in a few years back.

[gaylordfan1]

I'm a huge fan of "Tom the BOMB" Wort. I expect him to get plenty of PT next year. But to be realistic, I'm waiting to see him produce in games before I call him the second comming of the BOZ. Now, R. Lewis will be solid next year.... Hell, he was very solid on special teams this year. I see him standing out. The LB corp will be solid again.

[Chiliman]

I would be willing to bet Austin Box has almost as many tackles for loss as Lewis and Reynolds in the limited playing time he has had. Clearly has great instincts. He just needs game reps.

[GottaHavePride]

You are exactly right.

Though the scheme kinda got run out of the conference after OSU and Mizzou experimented with it in a few years back.

Weren't we basically running a 4-2-5 with Roy Williams?

[rawlingsHOH]

Weren't we basically running a 4-2-5 with Roy Williams?
We were running similar to what we are running today with Keenan Clayton. Though, of course, Roy would move around more.

The true 4-2-5 defense, what a few Big 12 teams experimented with some years back, wasn't just "nickel" personell, but a defensive philosophy that was based on a stopping-the-run first mentality.

It gave you a lot of Cover-3 looks with the two corners and the single safety deep. The weak and strong safties (they often had pet names like whip or bandit) generally had run-first responsibilities, giving the defense a 4-4 look, but with smaller, quicker personell.

[Sam.England]

Yeh, news on Tom Wort is that his knee is all good, and will be ready next season to show the promise that everyone saw this pre-season to bring something to our D next year!

He will be starting come game day 1, im convinced of that!

[goingoneight]

We'll see about that. An off-season can be grueling on a player just getting back from a knee surgery. Ask Ryan Reynolds.

[adoniijahsooner]

Stoops also announced that middle linebacker Ryan Reynolds had lost his appeal to the NCAA for a hardship waiver that would have allowed him an extra year of eligibility due to injuries.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/bowls09/news/story?id=4762239