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View Full Version : Conservatism is dead, and the conservative movement is what killed it.



SicEmBaylor
12/4/2009, 04:21 AM
I wrote this up on Facebook the other night. Thought I might as well post it here as well:

Most, if not all, of you will disagree with what I am about to say. Nonetheless, it is my opinion and what I believe to be true. Conservatism has been dead for a very long time. What we have today is the conservative movement which is little more than an artificial facsimile of natural conservatism that died out long ago.

Allow me to explain: For most of our nation's history, there was no such thing as a "conservative movement"; yet, America has always been a fairly conservative place. Natural conservatism did not need a political movement because the default position of most of the nation was the conservative position. Conservative principles were as innately American as baseball, apple pie, and John Philip Sousa marching music. For example, Calvin Coolidge was one of the great conservative Presidents of our time. And, yet, it can neither be claimed that Coolidge was a "movement" conservative (no such movement existed); nor, can you claim that Coolidge was an ideologue (he was not). Coolidge was the complete manifestation of natural conservatism. His positions and actions did not represent years of work by public policy think tanks or the positions laid out by leading conservative intellectuals -- they were the natural and default positions that represented the sentiment of most Americans at the time.

This natural conservatism served our nation very well until the FDR administration. This natural conservatism is today called the "old-right" or "paleoconservatism." It attempted to keep the government small, decentralized, emphasized states' rights, and attempted to keep us out of disastrous foreign wars and entanglements by emphasizing an "America first" policy. It is expressed best by Russell Kirk who would likely find little to love about the modern neo-conservative movement and its puppet party...the GOP. I often find it amusing when I see college students praising Russell Kirk one minute while reading The Weekly Standard the next.

As much fondness as I've had for William F. Buckley over the course of my life, I believe he did more to kill the old-right/natural conservatism than any other individual or organization. What Buckley did was take long established conservative positions and turn them into a movement with concrete policy goals. In effect, he politicized conservatism making it a direct-competitor to liberalism. Conservatism ceased to be an innate and natural position held by most Americans whether they realized it or not. Instead, it was dragged down from its lofty position and transformed into a viable political movement with set policy goals in direct opposition to other political movements with policy goals of their own. In short, conservatism became a movement that people could oppose rather than being a natural almost unspoken philosophy that transcended political bar fights.

Once conservatism became a movement with concrete policy goals, it became necessary to make that policy palatable to the general public and to the political party that would act as an engine driving those policy changes. The result is that conservatism became a set of policy goals that could be changed, manipulated, added-to, and subtracted-from in order to be viable to the electorate. The Republican Party adopted many of these policy goals, but all too often people mistake the Republican Party for an ideologically conservative party. Neither the Republican nor the Democratic Party are ideological parties. The only ideological parties in the United States are 3rd and 1-issue political parties. In short, conservatism lost its true identity.

Worse yet, since the George W. Bush administration, conservatism itself has been co-opted by the neoconservative movement. The basic tenants (as well as the origins of its leaders and founders) are so contrary to natural conservatism that one must bite their tongue when applying the "conservative" moniker after the "neo" prefix. I have no doubt that the Neocon principles of interventionism abroad and "big government" conservatism at home would have Calvin Coolidge rolling in his grave. Neoconservatism has been so successful that they have totally changed the identity of conservatism and what it means to be a Republican.

Conservatism today is, essentially, a major industry whose existence has more to do with money and winning elections than it does with upholding classic American values and principles. Conservatism has created an industry dependent upon book sales, TV shows with high ratings, radio, and personal appearances by movement "leaders." And who are those leaders? Is the utterly brain-dead Sean Hannity truly the best conservatism has to offer? Or what about the shrill Ann Coulter? What about Rush Limbaugh who always dismisses callers espousing the values of states' rights and non-interventionism? Are these people seriously the best the conservative movement has to offer? Even the once refreshing Sarah Palin has become stale and positively boring.

Today "movement conservatives" on college campuses put little or no thought into the proper origins of conservatism or exactly what kind of conservative they are. Talk radio, Fox News, poorly-written books by shrill authors, and an untold number of speeches by leading neocons have created an entire generation of college students who know virtually nothing about what it means to be a conservative. The unfortunate reality is that too many of them have become shock-troops for the neoconservative movement that demands a strong American presence abroad while systematically increasing the power of the central government at home. For example, you hear a lot of conservatives arguing against nationalized healthcare based on opposing policy, but how many times have you heard it argued that it's utterly unconstitutional for the government to have health insurance? Furthermore, where were these people when George W. Bush exponentially increased the size of government with NCLB, prescription medicare, the Patriot Act, etc.?

The sad truth is that the conservatism of today has little to do with the classic-conservatism of a bygone era. It's no longer an innate and natural philosophy that transcends politics itself. It's nothing more than an industry that is fueled by money and power. You can count me out of that.

SicEmBaylor
12/4/2009, 04:23 AM
...and just to add to that a little bit. Someone responded (actually a member of the Texas legislature) what a conservative was supposed to do. This was my reply:

I'm too much a pessimist to believe anything can be reversed.

However, I think the first thing that needs to happen is for conservatives to start policing our own better by constantly challenging and debating one another so we all have a better understanding of why we believe the things we do. Only when we have a better understanding of the origins and foundation of conservatism can we really begin to convince others.

Look, everyone in the movement wants to fight liberals. Everyone enjoys the battling it out with liberals and liberal organization, but it's ultimately pointless. You are never ever going to convince a liberal to cease being a liberal through a reasoned debate just as we'll never be convinced to change our beliefs. It's like banging your head against the wall.

What we can do, however, is educate ourselves of the foundational principles of conservatism and constantly challenge one another on our personal interpretation of those principles. If a fellow conservative makes an inconsistent argument then challenge them on it! Don't be afraid of internal debate and arguments -- it shouldn't be avoided or shut down it should be encouraged. I learned this lesson my freshman year at Baylor from XXX. XXX, at that time and at Baylor, was positively brutal in its political arguments. EVERYTHING you said was immediately challenged and torn apart. This made for some rough and tumble meetings, but ultimately it made me a much better conservative and made me re-evaluate many positions I was inconsistent on. It was a very positive experience.

In any case, there needs to be some division between conservatism the philosophy and conservatism the public policy. It should be noted that policy positions are merely an interpretation of how conservatism should be applied and not conservatism in and of itself.


....and discuss!

hellogoodbye
12/4/2009, 09:35 AM
Can one assume that what is inherent in evolution is that for something new to arrive, implies the death of the former (the optimist in me)?

crawfish
12/4/2009, 09:46 AM
If it's any help, Liberalism was killed by the liberal movement as well. What we're left with is a nebulous entity of two parties that tend to frame the arguments through hot button issues (abortion, gay marriage, health care, etc) while the true purpose of both is to put money in the pockets of the elite.

StoopTroup
12/4/2009, 09:51 AM
I think I'm going to try and start a new party.

The Elite Party. :D

OhU1
12/4/2009, 10:18 AM
Sic em that was actually a pretty good read. Thanks


If it's any help, Liberalism was killed by the liberal movement as well. What we're left with is a nebulous entity of two parties that tend to frame the arguments through hot button issues (abortion, gay marriage, health care, etc) while the true purpose of both is to put money in the pockets of the elite.

Yep, and discourse seems to be increasingly knee jerk and shallow where any position or issue (even scientific or religious) is boiled down to a simplistic "conservative" vs. "liberal" banter. A lot of people seem to support their party or candidate unconditionally as they would a football team. They will immediately disagree, agree, praise, or criticize a policy or position not based on the policy but whether it was Bush or Obama who proposed it. I would expect this from a campaign manager but the general public should not be so quick to spin for "their guy". It is as if the Bush or Obama supporter has something personally at stake or their own character is being disparaged when "their guy" gets attacked. I for one would like to see “conservative” politicians taken to task when they spend like a drunken Ted Kennedy at a whorehouse on Friday night and not have people distracted by the diversionary “God, Guns, and Gays” smokescreen they seem to trot out.

SoonerAtKU
12/4/2009, 10:34 AM
tenets. You need a few more years of college, I think.

Just kidding. Good read, and I've had a lot of the same sentiments myself. I voted for McCain in 2000, and would have voted for him again in a heartbeat if the same person had run in 08. Not apples to apples, and I know he gets roasted for not being a 'true conservative', but the point stands and our disappointment is palpable.

Keep fighting the fight, man. You've got some rather out-there ideals, but they're yours and you debate them with intellectual honesty and vigor. It's clearly not a put-on or persona like some of the folks around here.

OUMallen
12/4/2009, 10:39 AM
At some point some of us traditional conservatives (now, libertarians) will gain some strength...

...but the sad thing is people aren't consumers of information. They're followers. They identify with "parties" or "ideology" and don't think about why they're doing it.

As someone once said: Once you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to examine your position.

1890MilesToNorman
12/4/2009, 10:46 AM
Nice job SicEm, Conservatism has been dead a long time because conservatives abandoned conservatism. Conservatism is limited government and following the constitution plain and simple, these ideas have been dead a long, long, long friggin time.

OUMallen
12/4/2009, 10:58 AM
Nice job SicEm, Conservatism has been dead a long time because conservatives abandoned conservatism. Conservatism is limited government and following the constitution plain and simple, these ideas have been dead a long, long, long friggin time.

False. Ideas are alive and well and promoted. We're just called libertarians now.

1890MilesToNorman
12/4/2009, 10:59 AM
False. Ideas are alive and well and promoted. We're just called libertarians now.

I stand corrected.

Pricetag
12/4/2009, 11:24 AM
Yep, and discourse seems to be increasingly knee jerk and shallow where any position or issue (even scientific or religious) is boiled down to a simplistic "conservative" vs. "liberal" banter. A lot of people seem to support their party or candidate unconditionally as they would a football team. They will immediately disagree, agree, praise, or criticize a policy or position not based on the policy but whether it was Bush or Obama who proposed it. I would expect this from a campaign manager but the general public should not be so quick to spin for "their guy". It is as if the Bush or Obama supporter has something personally at stake or their own character is being disparaged when "their guy" gets attacked. I for one would like to see “conservative” politicians taken to task when they spend like a drunken Ted Kennedy at a whorehouse on Friday night and not have people distracted by the diversionary “God, Guns, and Gays” smokescreen they seem to trot out.
I don't know if it's the general public or just a very loud lowest common denominator who doggedly supports their guy. They're so loud that, as an even-keeled person, it's easy to get discouraged and to assume that they're the majority. I don't believe that they are.

I think there is a major problem, though, with people talking about how jacked both political parties are, and then wimping out in the voting booth and voting for one or the other in the end, sticking with the devil we know when we don't even really know what the alternative would be. There is also a problem with getting independent candidates on political ballots, at least in Oklahoma.

NormanPride
12/4/2009, 11:29 AM
Libertarians aren't flexible enough for me to side with them. I've met too many that are too radical. Federal change is gradual, and they're so far out of the picture that their goals are no longer reachable by gradual means.

49r
12/4/2009, 11:37 AM
anybody have the Cliff's Notes version?

OhU1
12/4/2009, 11:46 AM
I don't know if it's the general public or just a very loud lowest common denominator who doggedly supports their guy. They're so loud that, as an even-keeled person, it's easy to get discouraged and to assume that they're the majority. I don't believe that they are.


Good point and I think you are probably correct. The lowest common denominator is the inevitable level of conversation once more than 3 people are in the room at a party. Get 10 people in the room and someone will always want to change the topic away from "all this serious stuff".

Boarder
12/4/2009, 01:38 PM
I understand your argument to be that Old Conservatism (C1) was killed when New Conservatism (C2) set up easily changed, concrete goals, is that correct?

C1 had the goals "to keep the government small, decentralized, emphasized states' rights, and attempted to keep us out of disastrous foreign wars and entanglements by emphasizing an 'America first' policy." C2 has whatever goals are necessary at the time in order to be in opposition to the opponent. Citizens who were once C1 move to C2 in name only and are blown about by the whims of the party leaders until they become so disorganized they don't even know what they believe.

Is that what you were saying? If so, it sounds reasonable. Good observation.

OUMallen
12/4/2009, 02:00 PM
Libertarians aren't flexible enough for me to side with them. I've met too many that are too radical. Federal change is gradual, and they're so far out of the picture that their goals are no longer reachable by gradual means.

I agree. I tend to be libertarian with the caveat that I believe small government intervention in the market is necessary. Which almost makes me not a liberatarian at all in some people's views.

hellogoodbye
12/4/2009, 02:38 PM
Instead, it was dragged down from its lofty position and transformed into a viable political movement with set policy goals in direct opposition to other political movements with policy goals of their own.

Or was it the natural reaction to the baby boomer radical liberal movement in the late 60's\early 70's? If Buckley killed it, then Reagan, and his personifying it as POTUS, the nail in the coffin?


Worse yet, since the George W. Bush administration, conservatism itself has been co-opted by the neoconservative movement.

C2 has whatever goals are necessary at the time in order to be in opposition to the opponent.

Or, is it just a b*tch to follow Reagan (populist\conservative)?

SicEmBaylor
12/4/2009, 09:59 PM
False. Ideas are alive and well and promoted. We're just called libertarians now.

There's truth in that. Modern libertarians and paleoconservatives are very close 1st cousins. There are some differences, but for the most party both of us have the same goals -- keeping government small and out of our lives.

Paleoconservatives focus a lot on preserving the traditional European/Western culture of the US which isn't an issue for most libertarians. But, yes, both are very very close.

SicEmBaylor
12/4/2009, 10:06 PM
I understand your argument to be that Old Conservatism (C1) was killed when New Conservatism (C2) set up easily changed, concrete goals, is that correct?

C1 had the goals "to keep the government small, decentralized, emphasized states' rights, and attempted to keep us out of disastrous foreign wars and entanglements by emphasizing an 'America first' policy." C2 has whatever goals are necessary at the time in order to be in opposition to the opponent. Citizens who were once C1 move to C2 in name only and are blown about by the whims of the party leaders until they become so disorganized they don't even know what they believe.

Is that what you were saying? If so, it sounds reasonable. Good observation.

Yep, that's essentially correct.

When C2 became an organized political movement it made itself a target to the opposition rather than simply being an undefined innate characteristic of the American political culture. It also forced it to make its ideals palatable to the American public. In order to be a viable political movement it has to constantly change in order for it to be a viable political option. In fact, there's an entire industry, probably worth in the billions, that's dependent upon keeping some form of "conservatism" alive and well. Like I said, in order to keep it alive it has to change. And I don't like what it has changed into. It's more about keeping the cash flowing within the conservative industry and accumulating political power than it is about true reform.

You summed it up much better though.

SicEmBaylor
12/4/2009, 10:09 PM
Or was it the natural reaction to the baby boomer radical liberal movement in the late 60's\early 70's? If Buckley killed it, then Reagan, and his personifying it as POTUS, the nail in the coffin?




Or, is it just a b*tch to follow Reagan (populist\conservative)?

I'd say it was more inevitable than natural. But you're right, it was bound to happen. In fact, it had to happen or it'd cease to exist. Nonetheless, the result greatly disappoints me.

Reagan was a bridge between the old and new right. That's one of the reasons he's so universally beloved by conservatives. Bush, on the other hand, is solidly in the new-right camp.

Tulsa_Fireman
12/4/2009, 10:26 PM
I think I'm going to try and start a new party.

The Elite Party. :D

I will run against you!

I'll form the Keg Party! The PEOPLE'S party! The party of the working man!

Word.