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Chuck Bao
12/1/2009, 01:01 PM
I haven’t seen this article posted here before. If it has, I apologize.

Is this for real? I wonder if their numbers are accurate. I would like to hear Royalfan’s opinion.

I would have no problem with eating lab-grown or “In-Vitro” meat products. I could swallow it a little better if I knew it would result in stopping the destruction of the rain forests or over-harvesting the oceans.

My main question, though, is what makes the meat grow in the lab and how would they know if they got completely rid of it by the time you eat the meat. I mean, I wouldn’t want to grow two tongues or an extra stomach (no help needed there) or an extra penis (not sure about that one).

Any opinions?

http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/bio/eight-ways-vitro-meat-will-change-our-lives


Eight Ways In-Vitro Meat will Change Our Lives
Written By: Hank Hyena
Date Published: November 17, 2009

"Future Flesh" is squatting on your plate. Are you nervous? Stab it with a fork. Sniff it. Bite! Chew, swallow. Congratulations! Relax and ruminate now because you're digesting a muscular invention that will massively impact the planet.

In-Vitro Meat -- aka tank steak, sci fi sausage, petri pork, beaker bacon, Frankenburger, vat-grown veal, laboratory lamb, synthetic shmeat, trans-ham, factory filet, test tube tuna, cultured chicken, or any other moniker that can seduce the shopper's stomach -- will appear in 3-10 years as a cheaper, healthier, "greener" protein that's easily manufactured in a metropolis. Its entree will be enormous; not just food-huge like curry rippling through London in the 1970's or colonized tomatoes teaming up with pasta in early 1800's Italy. No. Bigger. In-Vitro Meat will be socially transformative, like automobiles, cinema, vaccines.

H+ previously discussed In-Vitro Meat, as have numerous other publications [see references at the end of this article]. Science pundits examined its microbiological struggles in Dutch labs and at New Harvest, a Baltimore non-profit. Squeamish reporters wasted ink on its "yucky" and "unnatural" creation, while others wondered if its "vegan" or not (PETA supports it but many members complain). This article jumps past artificial tissue issues; anticipating success, I optimistically envision Eight Ways In-Vitro Meat Will Change Our Lives.

1. Bye-Bye Ranches.
When In-Vitro Meat (IVM) is cheaper than meat-on-the-hoof-or-claw, no one will buy the undercut opponent. Slow-grown red meat & poultry will vanish from the marketplace, similar to whale oil's flame out when kerosene outshone it in the 1870's. Predictors believe that IVM will sell for half the cost of its murdered rivals. This will grind the $2 trillion global live-meat industry to a halt (500 billion pounds of meat are gobbled annually; this is expected to double by 2050). Bloody sentimentality will keep the slaughterhouses briefly busy as ranchers quick-kill their inventory before it becomes worthless, but soon Wall Street will be awash in unwanted pork bellies.

Special Note: IVM sales will be aided by continued outbreaks of filthy over-crowded farm animal diseases like swine flu, Mad Cow, avian flu, tuberculosis, brucellosis, and other animal-to-human plagues. Public hysteria will demand pre-emptive annihilation of the enormous herds and flocks where deadly pathogens form, after safe IVM protein is available.

2. Urban Cowboys.
Today's gentle drift into urbanization will suddenly accelerate as unemployed livestock workers relocate and retrain for city occupations. Rural real estate values will plummet as vast tracts of ranch land are abandoned and sold for a pittance (70% of arable land in the world is currently used for livestock, 26% of the total land surface, according to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization). New use for ex-ranch land? Inexpensive vacation homes; reforested parks; fields of green products like hemp or bamboo. Hot new city job? Techies and designers for In-Vitro Meat factories.

3. Healthier Humans.
In-Vitro Meat will be 100% muscle. It will eliminate the artery-clogging saturated fat that kills us. Instead, heart-healthy Omega-3 (salmon oil) will be added. IVM will also contain no hormones, salmonella, e. coli, campylobacter, mercury, dioxin, or antibiotics that infect primitive meat. I've noted above that IVM will reduce influenza, brucellosis, TB, and Mad Cow Disease. Starvation and kwashiokor (protein deficiency) will be conquered when compact IVM kits are delivered to famine-plagued nations. The globe's water crises will be partially alleviated, due to our inheritance of the 8% of the H2O supply that was previously gulped down by livestock and their food crops. We won't even choke to death because IVM contains no malicious bones or gristle. (Although Hall of Fame slugger Jimmy Foxx choked to death on a chicken bone, about 90% of meat victims are murdered by steak).

4. Healthier Planet.
Today's meat industry is a brutal fart in the face of Gaia. A recent Worldwatch Institute report ("Livestock and Climate Change") accuses the world's 1.5 billion livestock of responsibility for 51% of all human-caused greenhouse gas emissions. Statistics are truly ****ty: cattle crap 130 times more volume than a human, creating 64 million tons of sewage in the United States that's often flushed down the Mississippi River to kill fish and coral in the Gulf of Mexico. Pigs are equally putrid. There's a hog farm in Utah that oozes a bigger turd total than the entire city of Los Angeles. Livestock burps and farts are equally odious and ozone-destroying. 68% of the ammonia in the world is caused by livestock (creating acid rain), 65% of the nitrous oxide, 37% of the methane, 9% of the CO2, plus 100 other polluting gases. Big meat animals waste valuable land -- 80% of Amazon deforestation is for beef ranching, clear-cutting a Belgium-sized patch every year. Water is prodigiously gulped -- 15,000 liters of H20 produces just one kilogram of beef. 40% of the world's cereals are devoured by livestock. This scenario is clearly unsustainable, and In-Vitro Meat is the sensible alternative. (Although skeptics warn that IVM factories will produce their own emissions, research indicates that pollution will be reduced by at least 80%.) Once we get over the fact that IVM is oddly disembodied, we'll be thankful that it doesn't ****, burp, fart, eat, over graze, drink, bleed, or scream in pain.

5. Economic Upheaval.
The switch to In-Vitro Meat will pummel the finances of nations that survive on live animal industries. Many of the world leaders in massacred meat (USA, China, Brazil) have diversified incomes, but Argentina will bellow when its delicious beef is defeated. New Zealand will bleat when its lamb sales are shorn. And ocean-harvesting Vietnam and Iceland will have to fish for new vocations. Industries peripherally dependent on meat sales, like leather, dairy and wool, will also be slaughtered. Hide and leather-exporting nations like Pakistan and Kenya will be whipped, but South Korea will profit on its sales of "Koskin" and other synthetic leathers. Huge plantations of livestock crops (soybeans & corn) in Brazil, USA, Argentina, and China can be replaced with wool substitutes like sisal. Smaller nations that excel in food processing will thrive because they'll export IVM instead of importing tonnage of frozen meat. Look for economic upticks in The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, France, and especially Japan, who's currently one of the globe's largest importers of beef.

6: Exotic & Kinky Cuisine.
In-Vitro Meat will be fashioned from any creature, not just domestics that were affordable to farm. Yes, ANY ANIMAL, even rare beasts like snow leopard, or Komodo Dragon. We will want to taste them all. Some researchers believe we will also be able to create IVM using the DNA of extinct beasts -- obviously, "DinoBurgers" will be served at every six-year-old boy's birthday party.

Humans are animals, so every hipster will try Cannibalism. Perhaps we'll just eat people we don't like, as author Iain M. Banks predicted in his short story, "The State of the Art" with diners feasting on "Stewed Idi Amin." But I imagine passionate lovers literally eating each other, growing sausages from their co-mingled tissues overnight in tabletop appliances similar to bread-making machines. And of course, masturbatory gourmands will simply gobble their own meat.

7: FarmScrapers.
The convenience of buying In-Vitro Meat fresh from the neighborhood factory will inspire urbanites to demand local vegetables and fruits. This will be accomplished with "vertical farming" -- building gigantic urban multi-level greenhouses that utilize hydroponics and interior grow-lights to create bug-free, dirt-free, quick-growing super veggies and fruit (from dwarf trees), delicious side dishes with IVM. No longer will old food arrive via long polluting transports from the hinterlands. Every metro dweller will purchase fresh meat and crispy plants within walking distance. The success of FarmScrapers will cripple rural agriculture and enhance urbanization.

8. We Stop the Shame.
In-Vitro Meat will squelch the subliminal guilt that sensitive people feel when they sit down for a carnivorous meal. Forty billion animals are killed per year in the United States alone; one million chickens per hour. I list this last even though it's the top priority for vegetarians, because they represent only 1-2% of the population, but still... IVM is a huge step forward in "Abolitionism" -- the elimination of suffering in all sentient creatures. Peter Singer, founding father of Animal Liberation, supports IVM. So does every European veggie group I contacted: VEBU (Vegetarian Federation of Germany), EVA (Ethical Vegetarian Alternative of Belgium), and the Dutch Vegetarian Society. And PETA, mentioned earlier, offers $1 million to anyone who can market a competitive IVM product by 2012.

My final prediction is this: In-Vitro Meat relishes success first in Europe, partly because its "greener," but mostly they already eat "yucky" delicacies like snails, smoked eel, blood pudding, pig's head cheese, and haggis (sheep's stomach stuffed with oatmeal). In the USA, IVM will initially invade the market in Spam cans and Hot Dogs, shapes that salivating shoppers are sold on as mysterious & artificial, but edible & absolutely American.

StoopTroup
12/1/2009, 01:08 PM
I could go for some Greek yogurt and a fresh apple about now.

JohnnyMack
12/1/2009, 01:09 PM
Monsanto is the devil.

Know this.

StoopTroup
12/1/2009, 01:14 PM
Monsanto is the devil.

Know this.

Didn't they used to make linoleum for floors?

Oldnslo
12/1/2009, 01:23 PM
IT'S PEOPLE!!11!11!!

OUDoc
12/1/2009, 01:38 PM
That article seems a bit......biased. :)

Written by Hank Hyena? Seriously?

Harry Beanbag
12/1/2009, 01:40 PM
Nice, a Chuck Bao thread about meat with a penis reference. :)

StoopTroup
12/1/2009, 01:57 PM
ala bean bag....lol

Chuck Bao
12/1/2009, 01:58 PM
That article seems a bit......biased. :)

Written by Hank Hyena? Seriously?

So, is this like an Onion type article? Or...okay don't google Hank Hyena.

Oops.

Still, were his numbers right? Is this factory-made flesh feasible?

OUDoc
12/1/2009, 02:01 PM
Oh, I don't know if it's real or not, just that it seemed suspicious.

Denton_Sooner
12/1/2009, 02:14 PM
Well, add Transhumanism to my list of strange Google's....

C&CDean
12/1/2009, 02:24 PM
I don't think I have anything to worry about down on the ranch.

OUDoc
12/1/2009, 02:27 PM
So you think you can beat Chuck's meat?

Chuck Bao
12/1/2009, 02:32 PM
Well, add Transhumanism to my list of strange Google's....

That is weird. But the H+ thing looks more likely than "Meet the Jetsons" flying cars and maybe that isn't such a bad thing.

I still want to know how far in the future that we are talking about.

Harry Beanbag
12/1/2009, 02:40 PM
So you think you can beat Chuck's meat?

Nope.

JohnnyMack
12/1/2009, 02:44 PM
He sure does.

Chuck Bao
12/1/2009, 02:49 PM
So you think you can beat Chuck's meat?

You are just making it easy for Dean to beat me senseless when I finally go to an OU tailgate party.

I hope Dean takes into consideration that I did grow up in Oklahoma on a farm. I had to feed the cattle each day after junior and high school. I got my best lessons in life from my grandfather who helped me whenever there was a problem with birthing or a cow eating a plastic bag carelessly discarded on the Madill-Ardmore highway.

I would hate to see that lifestyle gone. Big cattle feedlot operations or pig farms in Utah that produce more **** than the city of Los Angeles, not so much.

C&CDean
12/1/2009, 03:09 PM
I'm sure that Chuck's meat is tremendous, however, after beating my own, I'd hardly have time for his.

You know it's all good Chuck.

And when I was buying my property I was bidding against a guy who wanted to split it up into 2 and 5 acre parcels for mobile homes. I have a neighbor up the road a couple miles who told me "my retirement will be splitting up the farm into 5-acre parcels and selling it off." I told him I'll buy the POS place before I'd let that happen.

I just hate seeing the small farm lifestyle fading away. I know I couldn't make a living doing the farm only (well I could, but it wouldn't be much of one) so I understand folks going to town and getting a job, but selling a beautiful farm just to have it trashed up by a bunch of PWT is a sin in my book.

olevetonahill
12/1/2009, 04:44 PM
What Dean said
hell I bot my 42 acres and dont do a dayum thing with it to try to make a Buck
But it sure is a Nice insulator from the Rabble :cool:

Chuck Bao
12/1/2009, 05:18 PM
The land that I inherited from my parents and grandparents has been my family's for 60-100 years. There is no way I'd sell it, even if my life depended on it. But, I am not so opposed to building lots and rent-to-own housing for income. I don't see that so much as a bad thing. Maybe, I could be persuaded otheriwse.

After I'm gone, it will belong to my nieices and nephew to make of it what they will, no restictions applied. I won't be around to know what they do and I obviously won't care, but they'd have to deal with the karma of it

C&CDean
12/2/2009, 01:38 PM
The land that I inherited from my parents and grandparents has been my family's for 60-100 years. There is no way I'd sell it, even if my life depended on it. But, I am not so opposed to building lots and rent-to-own housing for income. I don't see that so much as a bad thing. Maybe, I could be persuaded otheriwse.

After I'm gone, it will belong to my nieices and nephew to make of it what they will, no restictions applied. I won't be around to know what they do and I obviously won't care, but they'd have to deal with the karma of it

A lot of it depends on where it is. If it's right on the highway, or a town has already encroached around it then sell the **** off into trailer trash lots. However, if it's really out in the country, there's peace, quiet, wildlife, and an opportunity for someone who loves the country to make a go of it then I say never sell it off.

I'm still agonizing over the whole inheritance deal though. None of my kids have shown me the responsibility, the want-to, or the drive to take over a place like mine. They'd sell it off ASAP to the first bidder and blow the $$$ in a week. If one or more of them step up and show me they're willing to fly right, I'd be damned happy to will it all to them. If they don't, we'll probably run it for another 10-15 years, then sell it ourselves and go blow the $$ in the Caribbean and ****.

StoopTroup
12/2/2009, 01:48 PM
Dean...I'll be retiring soon and I'd consider being adopted as long as you promise I can have your OU tickets when your gone. :D ;)

BigRedJed
12/2/2009, 02:11 PM
Out.

C&CDean
12/2/2009, 02:40 PM
Out? A BRJ and Norm sighting on the same day? WTF?

NormanPride
12/2/2009, 03:02 PM
Next we'll see Beano.

Chuck Bao
12/2/2009, 03:04 PM
A lot of it depends on where it is. If it's right on the highway, or a town has already encroached around it then sell the **** off into trailer trash lots. However, if it's really out in the country, there's peace, quiet, wildlife, and an opportunity for someone who loves the country to make a go of it then I say never sell it off.

I'm still agonizing over the whole inheritance deal though. None of my kids have shown me the responsibility, the want-to, or the drive to take over a place like mine. They'd sell it off ASAP to the first bidder and blow the $$$ in a week. If one or more of them step up and show me they're willing to fly right, I'd be damned happy to will it all to them. If they don't, we'll probably run it for another 10-15 years, then sell it ourselves and go blow the $$ in the Caribbean and ****.

Dean, I have not met you, but I imagine that you have raised your sons right.

It is hard to tell about the priorities of the next generation when they come of age. My brother, sister and I were raised in completely different circumstances. We worked that land and we knew our grandfather and knew what he put into it and how he and my grandmother struggled during the Great Depression. The next generation doesn't. It can't be the same for them and it is unfair to expect them to have the same respect of the land. Seriously, after thinking about, it is my attachment problem not theirs. I want them to get the best education and the best jobs first.

My grandparents always said that if there are health issues, we have their blessing to sell the land to pay for medical bills. That was and will continue to be my only out and thankfully that hasn't applied.

Going back on topic, I would love to see the small farms survive even with lab-grown meat and I think that there is probably enough demand for free-range, non-chemically enhanced meat products that they may, at least if there is an outside income.

C&CDean
12/2/2009, 03:20 PM
Chuck,

All my boys have a great work ethic. They're good people. They're also ****ing knuckleheads.

I probably feel differently than you about this whole deal because I'm the first-generation land baron in the family.

My folks were poorer than poor, and although we lived in the country (until the city of Tucson stretched out and surrounded us after I left home) we couldn't afford livestock. A few rabbits, chickens, ducks, dogs, etc. That was it. My folks still live in that house, but there's no property other than the city lot it now sits on.

I'm the one who has toiled and sweated and been worried sick that I wasn't going to be able to afford the place. I'm the one who has cleared a couple hundred acres and sowed bermuda grass. I'm the one who has spread himself thin for the betterment of the investment and the continuation of the farming lifestyle. I'm the one (with the help of momma) who cuts and bales hay most evenings in the summer until 2 or 3 in the morning - after going to work all day in Norman.

Don't get me wrong, the kids have helped, but a) begrudgingly, and b) not much. I only bought the place 8 years ago. Three of the five boys were already out of the house. When they'd **** up and move back home it was only for a very short time. I put their asses to work for rent, and it didn't take long for them to find their own place.

On topic, I give my cattle nothing - in terms of hormones/drugs - unless they're actually sick. They do get an IBR/BVD (reperatory and venereal disease) shot every year, and if they're sick, they get a shot of LA-200 or Vitamin B, but no growth hormones or daily antibiotics like some folks do.

Lab grown meat? It'd probably be OK, but I don't think it's viable as a commercial product. It just sounds gross.

Chuck Bao
1/16/2010, 10:58 AM
Lab-grown meat appears to be a little closer to reality.

But, who is going to be the first to try it?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34881174/ns/technology_and_science-innovation/


Scientists turn stem cells into pork
The texture of the meat as sort of like scallop, firm but a little squishy

updated 1:57 p.m. ET Jan. 15, 2010
LONDON - Call it pork in a petri dish — a technique to turn pig stem cells into strips of meat that scientists say could one day offer a green alternative to raising livestock, help alleviate world hunger, and save some pigs their bacon.

Dutch scientists have been growing pork in the laboratory since 2006, and while they admit they haven't gotten the texture quite right or even tasted the engineered meat, they say the technology promises to have widespread implications for our food supply.

"If we took the stem cells from one pig and multiplied it by a factor of a million, we would need one million fewer pigs to get the same amount of meat," said Mark Post, a biologist at Maastricht University involved in the In-vitro Meat Consortium, a network of publicly funded Dutch research institutions that is carrying out the experiments.

Post describes the texture of the meat as sort of like scallop, firm but a little squishy and moist. That's because the lab meat has less protein content than conventional meat.

Several other groups in the U.S., Scandinavia and Japan are also researching ways to make meat in the laboratory, but the Dutch project is the most advanced, said Jason Matheny, who has studied alternatives to conventional meat at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore and is not involved in the Dutch research.

In the U.S., similar research was funded by NASA, which hoped astronauts would be able to grow their own meat in space. But after growing disappointingly thin sheets of tissue, NASA gave up and decided it would be better for its astronauts to simply eat vegetarian.

To make pork in the lab, Post and colleagues isolate stem cells from pigs' muscle cells. They then put those cells into a nutrient-based soup that helps the cells replicate to the desired number.

So far the scientists have only succeeded in creating strips of meat about 1 centimeter (a half inch) long; to make a small pork chop, Post estimates it would take about 30 days of cell replication in the lab.

There are tantalizing health possibilities in the technology.

Fish stem cells could be used to produce healthy omega 3 fatty acids, which could be mixed with the lab-produced pork instead of the usual artery-clogging fats found in livestock meat.

"You could possibly design a hamburger that prevents heart attacks instead of causing them," Matheny said.

Post said the strips they've made so far could be used as processed meat in sausages or hamburgers. Their main problem is reproducing the protein content in regular meat: In livestock meat, protein makes up about 99 percent of the product; the lab meat is only about 80 percent protein. The rest is mostly water and nucleic acids.

None of the researchers have actually eaten the lab-made meat yet, but Post said the lower protein content means it probably wouldn't taste anything like pork.

The Dutch researchers started working with pork stem cells because they had the most experience with pigs, but said the technology should be transferable to other meats, like chicken, beef and lamb.

Some experts warn lab-made meats might have potential dangers for human health.

"With any new technology, there could be subtle impacts that need to be monitored," said Emma Hockridge, policy manager at Soil Association, Britain's leading organic organization.

As with genetically modified foods, Hockridge said it might take some time to prove the new technology doesn't harm humans. She also said organic farming relies on crop and livestock rotation, and that taking animals out of the equation could damage the ecosystem.

Some experts doubted lab-produced meat could ever match the taste of real meat.

"What meat tastes like depends not just on the genetics, but what you feed the animals at particular times," said Peter Ellis, a biochemistry expert at King's College London. "Part of our enjoyment of eating meat depends on the very complicated muscle and fat structure...whether that can be replicated is still a question."

If it proves possible, experts say growing meat in laboratories instead of raising animals on farmland would do wonders for the environment.

Hanna Tuomisto, who studies the environmental impact of food production at Oxford University said that switching to lab-produced meat could theoretically lower greenhouse gas emissions by up to 95 percent. Both land and water use would also drop by about 95 percent, she said.

"In theory, if all the meat was replaced by cultured meat, it would be huge for the environment," she said. "One animal could produce many thousands of kilograms of meat." In addition, lab meat can be nurtured with relatively few nutrients like amino acids, fats and natural sugars, whereas livestock must be fed huge amounts of traditional crops.

Tuomisto said the technology could potentially increase the world's meat supply and help fight global hunger, but that would depend on how many factories there are producing the lab-made meat.

Post and colleagues haven't worked out how much the meat would cost to produce commercially, but because there would be much less land, water and energy required, he guessed that once production reached an industrial level, the cost would be equivalent to or lower than that of conventionally produced meat.

One of the biggest obstacles will be scaling up laboratory meat production to satisfy skyrocketing global demand. By 2050, the Food and Agriculture Organization predicts meat consumption will double from current levels as growing middle classes in developing nations eat more meat.

"To produce meat at an industrial scale, we will need very large bioreactors, like those used to make vaccines or pasteurized milk," said Matheny. He thought lab-produced meat might be on the market within the next few years, while Post said it could take about a decade.

For the moment, the only types of meat they are proposing to make this way are processed meats like minced meat, hamburgers or hot dogs.

"As long as it's cheap enough and has been proven to be scientifically valid, I can't see any reason people wouldn't eat it," said Stig Omholt, a genetics expert at the University of Life Sciences in Norway. "If you look at the sausages and other things people are willing to eat these days, this should not be a big problem."

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