Why Does Texas Run McCoy But OU Refuses [Archive]

Sooner Eclipse

11/26/2009, 11:26 PM

To use any QB runs? It appears Mack will
will do whatever it takes to win.....even
running his franchise QB.

BTW, McCoy is slow.

If you noticed before RRS, McKlot didn't run much at all until then. They let him run enough in the RRS to loosen up the D. I think this was intentional to keep mcklot from getting hurt and worn out early in the season. After RRS he has been allowed to run more and more, and their offense has become more productive as he does.

Unfortunately Mack is getting smarter as demonstrated above. The good news is it took him until his old age to do it.

Collier11

11/26/2009, 11:38 PM

They are putting themselves in the best position to win, just utilizing what they have. Mccoy isnt slow either, he runs in the 4.6 range

FaninAma

11/26/2009, 11:41 PM

If you noticed before RRS, McKlot didn't run much at all until then. They let him run enough in the RRS to loosen up the D. I think this was intentional to keep mcklot from getting hurt and worn out early in the season. After RRS he has been allowed to run more and more, and their offense has become more productive as he does.

Unfortunately Mack is getting smarter as demonstrated above. The good news is it took him until his old age to do it.
But why the difference in philosophy?

I am excited about Blake Bell coming in but
I am afraid the OU coaching staff will not use
his running ability.

FaninAma

11/26/2009, 11:47 PM

They are putting themselves in the best position to win, just utilizing what they have. Mccoy isnt slow either, he runs in the 4.6 range

He may not be slow but I doubt he runs a 4.6.

Blues1

11/26/2009, 11:48 PM

IF we are ever to Win The Big 12 Championship again, We are gonna need a Passing and Running QB ~~jmho --- Sam Bradford is a once in 25 years qb....
I'm afraid our coaches won't see it that way, and will stay with The Passing only qb.....On to oSu...!

Sooner Eclipse

11/26/2009, 11:52 PM

We haven't had a starting QB who had natural talent running since blowmar. I think our coaches feel that running a QB at all is a risk. ut coaches ran klot too much in previous years and the wear on him was evident by the end of the season. They changed their approach w him and it worked while still allowing the threat of a qb run.

Like most things - in moderation it works. I think our coaches should use it if the talent is there. It hasn't been in a while.

gaylordfan1

11/26/2009, 11:54 PM

gaylordfan1

11/26/2009, 11:55 PM

Sorry, besides this year.

Collier11

11/27/2009, 12:08 AM

we have won 6 conf titles and none of those qbs were runners

westcoast_sooner

11/27/2009, 12:28 AM

Texas OL still isn't great - even with guys that have been starting for a couple years. Seems like last year, McCoy was the ONLY running game they had, and they've struggled running most of the year this year, as well. McCoy is quick enough and athletic enough to make bad defenses pay, and he did that again all night tonight. Remember, when you look up 'sieve' in a dictionary, A&M's defense is in the picture.

Sam made some things happen, but he's still more of a drop back passer. But remember the run he has last year in Stoolwater. Landry's mobility is less than Sam's. I think Blake Bell is more dual threat, or at least has the most mobility at the position we've had for awhile.

Having said that - I think Stoops wants the QB to throw. I think Bell will give us an added dimension when he gets into the system.

BASSooner

11/27/2009, 12:31 AM

A running QB isn't our style of offense. Just look who we recruit. Bell is a bit different, but again, we will prob turn him into a passing QB. This style of offense has done good things.... don't u think?

It hasn't won us the bowl games, also it would've contributed to winning VERY close games that we have lost.

Just sayin

olevetonahill

11/27/2009, 12:32 AM

Why its pretty simple Fan
according to YOU and a few others here
Mack is a FAR superior Coach than Bob
What can you expect with such a sucky coachin staff ?

gaylordfan1

11/27/2009, 12:45 AM

It hasn't won us the bowl games, also it would've contributed to winning VERY close games that we have lost.

Just sayin

It is better to have gone to the game and lost than to have never gone to the game in the first place. I agree a running QB adds an additional demension to the table, but I don't think not having one is the source of our losses.

I agree with what the program is doing... the QB throws the ball, the RB's runs the ball. It has worked in the past. And it will work for us again.

Collier11

11/27/2009, 12:47 AM

well the last two QBs we have recruited, Blake Bell and Kendall Thompson can both run, maybe Stoops agrees with you guys

BASSooner

11/27/2009, 12:55 AM

It is better to have gone to the game and lost than to have never gone to the game in the first place. I agree a running QB adds an additional demension to the table, but I don't think not having one is the source of our losses.

I agree with what the program is doing... the QB throws the ball, the RB's runs the ball. It has worked in the past. And it will work for us again.

very true to a certain degree. However, with a QB running the ball more often would make OUr offense more unpredictable. options, fake options, scrambling. etc.

King Barry's Back

11/27/2009, 12:58 AM

well the last two QBs we have recruited, Blake Bell and Kendall Thompson can both run, maybe Stoops agrees with you guys

We have to go through this 6 times a season. "Don't you think we should recruit a running QB to have another dimension?"

The fact is that most of Bob Stoops's QBs have had at least respectable mobility. Bradford could move when he had to do it. Paul Thompson had wheels enough to play receiver. Jason White was a strong runner til the knees gave out, and Josh picked up several key first downs during the national champtionship run -- including two that I recall at Stillwater.

The lack of QB running has had nothing to do with our QBs inability to run.

It has nothing to do with the philosophies of KW or the offensive coaching staff.

It has everything to do with one Bob Stoops, who has said publicly that he thinks running a QB is too risky. The QB gets hurt, your season is over.

Which is why you remember some great QB runs in Stillwater -- Heuple's first downs, Bradford's 'Heisman moment,' and not elsewhere.

OSU is our last game and the staff is willing to take more risks.

A lot of people are critical of this approach, and justifiably. But on the other hand, when you look at what happened to us when we lost Bradford it's hard to argue.

yermom

11/27/2009, 01:00 AM

JW was a runner, Thompson was supposedly a runner that Long was going to open up the playbook with...

our QB's seem to get hurt enough as it is :(

BASSooner

11/27/2009, 01:05 AM

We have to go through this 6 times a season. "Don't you think we should recruit a running QB to have another dimension?"

The fact is that most of Bob Stoops's QBs have had at least respectable mobility. Bradford could move when he had to do it. Paul Thompson had wheels enough to play receiver. Jason White was a strong runner til the knees gave out, and Josh picked up several key first downs during the national champtionship run -- including two that I recall at Stillwater.

The lack of QB running has had nothing to do with our QBs inability to run.

It has nothing to do with the philosophies of KW or the offensive coaching staff.

It has everything to do with one Bob Stoops, who has said publicly that he thinks running a QB is too risky. The QB gets hurt, your season is over.

Which is why you remember some great QB runs in Stillwater -- Heuple's first downs, Bradford's 'Heisman moment,' and not elsewhere.

OSU is our last game and the staff is willing to take more risks.

A lot of people are critical of this approach, and justifiably. But on the other hand, when you look at what happened to us when we lost Bradford it's hard to argue.

Eh, that is very understandable. However, I believe that the QB should run around a bit. I think he based that statement off of jason white's injury. Yes you are taking a risk BUT, you have to be risky sometimes. texass uses scrambling QBs and they havn't been injured. Nor has Pryor, nor Tebow (yes a concussion BUT he's still playing...and winning). It just makes the offense more dangerous!

SGT Park3R

11/27/2009, 02:14 AM

They are putting themselves in the best position to win, just utilizing what they have. Mccoy isnt slow either, he runs in the 4.6 range

Before last year started they said he was clocked at 4.4

BTW. That's not slow.

rainiersooner

11/27/2009, 02:19 AM

I think Qbs are in greater danger of getting hurt by a porous O-Line than by running; as evidenced by Sam's experience this year.

sooner ngintunr

11/27/2009, 03:03 AM

BTW, McCoy is slow.

crimson glasses are cool

Mccoy isnt slow either, he runs in the 4.6 range

Before last year started they said he was clocked at 4.4

BTW. That's not slow.

Glad we all agree sarge, Colt boy is slow.

rawlingsHOH

11/27/2009, 03:26 AM

They can saw he was timed at 4.4 all they want.

I bet he's not 1/4 second within that, this Feb in Indy.

SGT Park3R

11/27/2009, 03:56 AM

They can see he was timed at 4.4 all they want.

I bet he's not 1/4 second within that, this Feb in Indy.

4.0, 4.4, or 5.0. I'm just glad he's gone after this year.

adoniijahsooner

11/27/2009, 05:01 AM

I dont think you recruit Blake Bell and Thompson, just to have them sit in the pocket like statues.

RedstickSooner

11/27/2009, 05:06 AM

To use any QB runs? It appears Mack will
will do whatever it takes to win.....even
running his franchise QB.

BTW, McCoy is slow.

Because every year that we've been any good, our QB has had his limbs attached with duct tape by the time our bowl game rolls around. With Jason White injured twice, Heupel playing the Orange Bowl with an elbow the size of a grapefruit, and now Bradford missing out his chance to compete in another NC game, there's no universe in which we will try to run the QB *more*.

I think if we ever woke Stoops from a sound REM sleep cycle, he'd scream, "Dear God, No! Not the ACL! Not another gawd-d*&@ed ACL! Why won't their knees just stay attached for one damned season? WHY??!"

'Course, then there's this year. Where I reckon he just spends most nights sleeping and muttering to himself, "One injured lineman. Two injured linemen. Three injured linemen. Four injured linemen. Five injured linemen. Six injured linemen..." etc, 'til he finally wakes up. Pissed off, and exhausted, in a really great way.

badger

11/27/2009, 08:07 AM

Our QB's have run in the past.

Sam is more a pocket master, but his predecessor ENA was quite the runner, as was ENA's predecessor, Brett.

Jason White... I sure you all know the hotline number to call if you find his stolen knees.

If you're referring to this year and why we're not running the QB as much, think of it this way - if Landry Jones goes down because of a nasty hit (and Colt was getting hit), we'll all be finding our inner Nimmo (see avatar, lol). OU can't take that risk right now. They aren't pulling the redshirt off of Mr. Alamo Heights this late in the season!

Does this sound about right?

TXBOOMER

11/27/2009, 09:33 AM

soonerborn45

11/27/2009, 11:55 AM

It hasn't won us the bowl games, also it would've contributed to winning VERY close games that we have lost.

Just sayin

So your saying that if we had a running qb our defense would have gotten a stop against byu and miami. And Brian Jackson would have jumped over Colt McCoy on what should have been a pick 6 and Clayton would have caught two pick sixes. Look it never hurts to have a qb who can move a little bit but to all of a sudden want to make our qb run and get knocked around like a red headed step child with freckles is not smart. Look at robinson, he got hurt, look at tebow he's not a agile runner he is like a fullback. Look at McCoy in the past, when he ran he always got knocked around and was always hurt. Last night was the first time all year that they really used him as a runner. We have had two heisman trophy winning quarterbacks and they weren't runners and have won 6 conference titles with the qbs we have.

prrriiide

11/27/2009, 01:48 PM

Maybe, but without McCoy's tackle in the
RRS Texas loses.

FIFY.

JLEW1818

11/27/2009, 01:50 PM

Sooner70

11/27/2009, 02:14 PM

Wouldn't classify Colt as slow at all. Secondly, he appears a smart runner...doesn't take chances. Readily slides after getting first down. Doesn't sacrifice his body wrecklessly. Thirdly, keeping a QB in the pocket doesn't insure no injury....look at what happend to Sam at BYU. JW's last knee injury was on a run, but no contact.....his knee just gave out....coulda happend anyway. Think in absence of strong OL and having dropsy receivers, OU would be better served by allowing QB's option to run, if it's there...but not do wrecklessly.

PhilTLL

11/27/2009, 02:32 PM

Because every year that we've been any good, our QB has had his limbs attached with duct tape by the time our bowl game rolls around. With Jason White injured twice, Heupel playing the Orange Bowl with an elbow the size of a grapefruit, and now Bradford missing out his chance to compete in another NC game, there's no universe in which we will try to run the QB *more*.

Thank you. Why is this so hard to grasp for people? Literally everyone who was ever the #1 choice at QB during the Stoops administration has fought the injury bug (okay, except Bomar). We skidded our way through the last 4 games in 2000 because of it. It happened to Jason White in THREE different seasons. And his legend started when Hybl got knocked out of the 2001 Texas game. Bradford only had 1 full year without some kind of season-changing mishap. I'll grant I don't follow Texas closely--which is to say, at all--but they seem to have been much luckier in this regard.

Oh, I forgot to come to the point. These weren't all QB run plays gone wrong, but if all of this is going to happen anyway, why put the guys at extra risk?

FaninAma

11/27/2009, 04:30 PM

Why its pretty simple Fan
according to YOU and a few others here
Mack is a FAR superior Coach than Bob
What can you expect with such a sucky coachin staff ?

Au contraire josepe. I have repeatedly stated
Mack is an average coach but a better Ceo of
his program than Bob is. Bob is the much better
coach but as head coach his primary responsibility
is to hire the best assistant coaching staff he can.

Since 2004 Mack has done a much better job
in this important area.

The fact that they are willing to run McCoy in order
to win while our coaching staff telegraphs the message
that or QBs will never run is evidence that supports my premise.

FaninAma

11/27/2009, 04:34 PM

It is better to have gone to the game and lost than to have never gone to the game in the first place. I agree a running QB adds an additional demension to the table, but I don't think not having one is the source of our losses.

I agree with what the program is doing... the QB throws the ball, the RB's runs the ball. It has worked in the past. And it will work for us again.

In 90% of games I would say you are right. Against the
Texas' and Florida's of the world you really need
the extra dimension of a mobile QB.

FaninAma

11/27/2009, 04:37 PM

Before last year started they said he was clocked at 4.4

BTW. That's not slow.

Again I am very dubious of that claim. I guess
we'll see what he runs in the NFL combines.

FaninAma

11/27/2009, 04:39 PM

Our QB's have run in the past.

Sam is more a pocket master, but his predecessor ENA was quite the runner, as was ENA's predecessor, Brett.

Jason White... I sure you all know the hotline number to call if you find his stolen knees.

If you're referring to this year and why we're not running the QB as muchH, think of it this way - if Landry Jones goes down because of a nasty hit (and Colt was getting hit), we'll all be findingZ our inner Nimmo (see avatar, lol). OU can't take that risk right now. They aren't pulling the redshirt off of Mr. Alamo Heights this late in the season.

Does this sound about right?
what were Thompson's rushing totals his senior year?
Answer: not very many. http://collegefootball.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=2621

FaninAma

11/27/2009, 04:49 PM

Thank you. Why is this so hard to grasp for people? Literally everyone who was ever the #1 choice at QB during the Stoops administration has fought the injury bug (okay, except Bomar). We skidded our way through the last 4 games in 2000 because of it. It happened to Jason White in THREE different seasons. And his legend started when Hybl got knocked out of the 2001 Texas game. Bradford only had 1 full year without some kind of season-changing mishap. I'll grant I don't follow Texas closely--which is to say, at all--but they seem to have been much luckier in this regard.

Oh, I forgot to come to the point. These weren't all QB run plays gone wrong, but if all of this is going to happen anyway, why put the guys at extra risk?

IMHO statue-like QB's are much more prone to injury.......
White, Hybl, Bradford.

Scott D

11/27/2009, 05:23 PM

FaninAma

11/27/2009, 06:06 PM

Fan, White's major injuries both came when he was either running the ball or rolling out. Considering how woefully under-prepared this staff has second string players is it really worth the risk to have a starting qb run the ball on planned runs?

I have a different memory of Colt's injuries. The injury he
suffered against Tamu as a freshman was when he was passing.
I think he suffered an injury against KSU as a sophomore when
he was trying to QB sneak on the goaline.

Last year he was the team's leading rusher and didn't
suffer a significant injury.

Scott D

11/27/2009, 08:07 PM

I never once mentioned Colt in my post sir..I mentioned the two non contact knee injuries that Jason White suffered, now a good counter argument would have been that Oregon continues to use a method with dual threat quarterbacks despite the knee injury suffered by Dennis Dixon two seasons ago.

I still reiterate that based on how the OU staff poorly prepares second string players to receive first team snaps, is the risk of a non contact knee injury really worth it to the OU starting QB?

FaninAma

11/27/2009, 08:13 PM

Scott, sorry about the mistake. I just think
White's knees were disasters waiting to happen.
On neither of them did he take a significant hit.

Scott D

11/27/2009, 08:17 PM

on neither one of them did he take any hit at all, one he was cutting to run up the sideline, the other he was rolling out to throw a pass.

King Barry's Back

11/27/2009, 10:41 PM

IMHO statue-like QB's are much more prone to injury.......
White, Hybl, Bradford.

Your sentence seems right on to me. They do tend to take some hits at full force that a scrambler could partially shield himself from.

But then you put together that list.

White a statue like QB? I guess, yeah, after he barely could walk anymore he didn't have much mobility?

And Bradford? He was fast. Much more mobile than he ever gets credit for.

He became a pocket passer at OU ONLY because Bob Stoops told him he was not allowed to run, as we couldn't afford to lose him to injury.

Bomar is the only QB we've had in a long time that made carrying the ball part of him repertoire, and during that season the coaching made a point almost every week at the "presser" that they wished he wouldn't run, they'd tell him not to run, but he ran anyway.

I guess Bomar just had some trouble following rules.

King Barry's Back

11/27/2009, 10:50 PM

Eh, that is very understandable. However, I believe that the QB should run around a bit. I think he based that statement off of jason white's injury. Yes you are taking a risk BUT, you have to be risky sometimes. texass uses scrambling QBs and they havn't been injured. Nor has Pryor, nor Tebow (yes a concussion BUT he's still playing...and winning). It just makes the offense more dangerous!

OK, I don't want to be in the position of defending Bob Stoops's QB philosophy, because I like to see a QB with wheels taking off down the field. And if we did that, it would without question immediately make our offense much more dynamic.

FACT CORRECTION: "Texas QBs don't get injured." Didn't McCoy get knocked out of the last couple of games his sophomore year, costing them both of those games and the South Div championship? Either that, or he had to play injured at lower effectiveness?

Like you said, Tebow had a concussion. That could easily have put him out for a couple of weeks, plenty of time for Fla to be out of the SEC race.

And aggie just almost lost Zac for their key last two games.

BAS Sooner -- I am with you. I'd like to see the QB running, occasionally and in such a way to minimize risk. I think that would almost immediately make it possible for us to pick up another two or three first downs a game, and in this year of close losses, that could very well be enough to have won us three more games.

I am just saying that Bob Stoops doesn't agree with us.