CPR

[StoopTroup]

I haven't had a refresher course in a long time. I was just watching a Sanjay Gupta story on CNN about how a Dr. whose State was having 96% of heart attack victims die. At this point they decided to rewrite the CPR manuals.

Their first change....Don't stop to take time to give mouth to mouth.

Chest compression will keep more blood flowing through the victim's body and keep the brain alive longer.

It all makes sense to me. I remember my Uncle (a Surgeon) stopped on old Hwy 20 outside of Claremore one day and he was performing CPR on this gal who had wrecked her car. She threw up in his mouth. He remembers the taste of it to this very day. I wonder had he kept chest compression up until an ambulance had gotten there if she would have lived? It's been probably 20 years ago since the incident but I remember the look on his face as he told me about it. It's not easy to be a healer and watch someone die. He felt helpless and it took some time for him to get by that day.

I found this video about the new procedures. I'm not sure how the other Docs on the board feel about the new procedures but I'm going to go ahead and post this as it makes sense to me.

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Gupta is expanding on the other things that have changed like lowering body temps on victims...once the victim is in the ER or being transported.

I'm guessing that mouth to mouth is probably still a good procedure if your dealing with a Drowning victim...but all of this confuses me about that too. Would a drowning victim be better off with chest compression or both? If both, it would seem a good idea to have to people working on the victim.

I hope everyone gets some CPR training. I know after this I'm going to get a refresher course.

[StoopTroup]

The above video has the Mouth to Mouth instructions still.

Here is a link to a CNN Story about a lady who saved her husband. There are other links to CPR stories there.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/07/02/cpr.cardiac.arrest/index.html

[StoopTroup]

Cheating Death (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2009/cheating.death/index.html)

[Turd_Ferguson]

Just got my certification last week. 30 compressions, 2 breaths, repeat.

[StoopTroup]

Just got my certification last week. 30 compressions, 2 breaths, repeat.

That's the way I was taught too.

Guess we'll see if all that changes.

I think the thing was that the 911 operators figure that if your not trained on CPR...it might be easier to get a person to do just one thing and the most important would be compression.

[OUHOMER]

my company would rather you just call 911, Its not written but they dont want to be sued if the first aid provider screws up.

most companies our size demands that they have a first aid responder on all shifts, Not ours

[StoopTroup]

We've got a ton of co-workers who are trained to do certain things. They can't administer medication or anything but they can assess and do vitals and I'm sure administer CPR.

I know they train all of the time and the Company supports it as they took measures to almost get rid of the medical staff we had. They still have a small Medical Team on hand during the day....but at night and during the wee hours...you're at the mercy of your co-workers. With over 6,000 people in one place...you'd think they could do better than that.

[tommieharris91]

my company would rather you just call 911, Its not written but they dont want to be sued if the first aid provider screws up.


Don't the Good Samaritan laws protect you? I mean, you're supposed to have someone call 911 anyway.

Also, it used to be 15 compressions and 2 breaths awhile ago. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it again.

[StoopTroup]

That deal on CNN was saying forgo the mouth to mouth and try for 60 to 100 compressions a minute. If you aren't breaking a sweat in 2 or 3 minutes you need to step it up and start singing the Bee Gee's "Stayin' Alive".

Per them that is.

[yermom]

It was 5:1 when I learned it...

[walkoffsooner]

enough 02 in blood to keep organs alive for around 15 min.

[BajaOklahoma]

I am a CPR instructor for the AHA. The current recommendations are 2 breaths and 30 compressions, with a target of 100 compressions/minute. Press hard and press fast.

For several years, Arizona has encouraged CPR, without the breaths. The AHA and the ARC are watching the results closely before checking their recommendations - and their training.

Pros for lay persons giving compressions only:
more people woud be willing to do compressions (fear of disease transmission by giving breaths)
compressions more likely to be given at the recommended rate
compressions alone may allow enough room air into the lungs to sustain necessary oxygen levels (this is the biggie, note the may) - during the rescue breathing, you breath into the victim a certain amount of carbon dioxide

Cons for lay persons giving compressions only:
mainly the lack of data on whether it works - if you are going to put in the effort, you want to know it can work
children usually go into respiratory arrest first, do to choking. Rescue breathing can possibly force the object down past the larnyx and allow re-oxygenation, can't happen with compression only

So currently, unless you live in Arizona, you will be taught compressions and breaths.
I highly recommend that you and your family learn CPR. The classes don't take that long, are inexpensive and can save a loved one's life. Our local fire depts offer classe to the public, as do many of the churches. Contact the local hospitals, they often often offer classes for the public. The ARC and AHA also offer classes. There are for-profit companies that teach CPR, though a more expensive option.

[TUSooner]

Just got my certification last week. 30 compressions, 2 breaths, repeat.

same here, but the instructore said he expected a change to 50-to-2, and he cited some Japanese studies where no breaths were given and resuscitation rates were high.

[OUmillenium]

Fascinating, CPR has really changed since my mid90s lifeguarding days. I like the 30-2. My wife had a refresher course and mentioned that ratio.

[Flagstaffsooner]

So currently, unless you live in Arizona, you will be taught compressions and breaths.
I would think that in high elevations, like Flagstaff, breaths would be needed.

[StoopTroup]

I would think that in high elevations, like Flagstaff, breaths would be needed.

Depends on how old the M I L F is I guess. :D

[Tulsa_Fireman]

To second this, a few nuggets to remind you why this is important.

Seattle, Washington enjoys a top 5 rating in cardiac saves. They employ a fire-based transport system similar in many ways to cities across the country. So what puts them over the top?

Citizen CPR.

You'll also be comforted to know that Tulsa, Oklahoma is now the number one city in the nation for cardiac save percentage. Not just spontaneous circulation from arrest, but from arrest to walking out of the hospital. Number one, baby. A part of that success is also citizen CPR. Sadly, due to financial issues and manpower concerns, the lead agency in delivering citizen CPR to the people of Tulsa, my Tulsa Fire Department, can no longer offer CPR courses/refreshers to the public.

But there is no question. It DOES make a difference.

[StoopTroup]

To second this, a few nuggets to remind you why this is important.

Seattle, Washington enjoys a top 5 rating in cardiac saves. They employ a fire-based transport system similar in many ways to cities across the country. So what puts them over the top?

Citizen CPR.

You'll also be comforted to know that Tulsa, Oklahoma is now the number one city in the nation for cardiac save percentage. Not just spontaneous circulation from arrest, but from arrest to walking out of the hospital. Number one, baby. A part of that success is also citizen CPR. Sadly, due to financial issues and manpower concerns, the lead agency in delivering citizen CPR to the people of Tulsa, my Tulsa Fire Department, can no longer offer CPR courses/refreshers to the public.

But there is no question. It DOES make a difference.

Thanks to all of you in the Fire Dept.

Good Stuff too...Ultimate SPEK!

Also...

Tulsa>OKC :D

[walkoffsooner]

High elevation same ratio, blood has same 02 sat. when you have heart attack regardless of elevation.

[12]

Regardless, it is something we could all learn (and probably for free) that could potentially save a life one day. I'd recommend everyone reading this thread learn to do it properly.

And even if you don't, at least try it if the need arrives. I had a friend struck by lightning several years ago. A golf-course worker saved his life and he had only seen CPR performed on television.

Of course, my friend's breath has always smelled like roasted peanuts and scotch since then...

[Penguin]

How successful is CPR anyway? One nurse told me that if an injury or illness is bad enough to kill you, it's usually bad enough to keep you dead.

[yermom]

i've kinda thought about that... but in some cases, it's from a temporary condition, like drowning, or choking (or electric shock/lightning, like 12 said)

even with a heart attack, keeping the blood pumping for a few minutes while professionals arrive could keep oxygen going to the brain and keep permanent damage from occuring, potentially

[Tulsa_Fireman]

How successful is CPR anyway? One nurse told me that if an injury or illness is bad enough to kill you, it's usually bad enough to keep you dead.

By itself? It's useless.

When initiated quickly along with rapid defibrillation when needed, coupled with a first response and transport service with advanced cardiac life support skills and tools, quality prehospital care including such, along with rapid transport to advanced medical care, it is VITAL to success. Again, without such a strong citizen CPR presence, Seattle doesn't get a sniff at being a top 5 system for saves. And response in even the most saturated, efficient systems is kicking *** and taking names if it can go from receipt of call to patient's side in five minutes. Considering the lag of patient discovery, initiation of the call, and that response time, CPR can be and often is the ONLY difference in survival.

The nurse flat out told you wrong.